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Brent Spiner Criticizes Insurrection and Defends Nemesis, Stuart Baird and Rick Berman

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By GustavoLeao / 23:27, 5 November 2009 / General Star Trek

In this extensive November 2002 interview (posted online in January 2009), Tibby's Bowl Online talks to Star Trek The Next Generation star Brent Spiner and here are few excerpts.

PLUME: Why do you think the reception to Insurrection was as cool as it was?


SPINER:
Well, probably because it wasn't a very good movie.


PLUME: I wasn't going to be that blunt. I've heard a lot of the behind-the-scenes wrangling that went on with it, as far as internal power struggles and whose vision was winning out over whom - I guess I'm not too surprised that Jonathan (Frakes) didn't direct Nemesis.


SPINER:
Right. Jonathan did a perfectly fine job directing that movie... I don't think it was the directing -


PLUME: My understanding is it was a little higher level interference.


SPINER:
Yeah, probably. You know what, I mean, I hate to get very political about it - because it'll bite me in the end - but let's just say it wasn't my favorite movie, and it wasn't the fans, either.



PLUME: Well, I wish I had a lot of faith in the upcoming film. I'm hoping it's better than my initial impressions of the script.


SPINER:
Oh, really? I think the script is great.


PLUME: There were certain aspects to it... it just played - soap operatic, melodramatic. A lot of stuff between Shinzon and Picard, it just played a little over the top - like there should have been some revisions done down the line.


SPINER:
Well, you know, first of all, the script you saw was a really early draft.


PLUME: That was hope number one.


SPINER:
Right, because people still ask me, "What is like to play B9?" Well, it's not B9, it's B4 - B9 was many drafts ago.


PLUME: Which is another interesting aspect of the script, too. Do you feel it's somehow sort of cheat to kill the character off, but the character's not really killed off?


SPINER:
Well, the character's really killed off. I mean, he's as dead as he can get - at this point. We don't know... there's only hope at the end. There's not a transition into a new character. There's only hope that maybe one day he'll evolve. It is a glimmer of it where there was none before, you know?

PLUME: I noticed the studio has done an interesting advertising campaign for the film, billing it as "A Generation's Final Journey".

 

SPINER: I think so, too. It's about as ambiguous as you can get, isn't it?


PLUME: That's got to be encouraging.


SPINER:
Yeah, it is. But let me just say this, just for your sake - when you go to see this movie, you're going to see the best Star Trek movie you've ever seen. I've seen it.


PLUME: I'm hoping. It's got to better than Insurrection.


SPINER:
Oh, it is. It's better than any you've seen. It's the first Star Trek movie that I've seen that I turned to Rick Berman afterwards and said, "I want to see this again."


PLUME: How much of that was an influence of having Stuart Baird on board?


SPINER:
None.


PLUME: Because I've heard a lot of stories about Stuart's ...


SPINER:
No, Stuart did a fine job, and he's a really conscientious guy who was really, really intent on making a good movie, and he drew his sword ... he wouldn't budge until he could get what he wanted.


PLUME: Causing some conflict with some of the cast members?


SPINER:
Not necessarily cast members... maybe with everyone. But conflict is always a good thing when you're trying to make a piece of art.


PLUME: There was a wonderful quote from Patrick a few months back, asking if he was able to make a connection with Stuart Baird, and Patrick's reply was, "I try, but he keeps ducking."


SPINER:
Patrick and Stuart got on very well, as did me and Stuart. We had no problems making this movie.


PLUME: Well, what are the rumors that keep popping up all the time - and I guess you're the perfect person to ask, to either put them down or explain why these keep popping up - of you and Patrick coming in and taking over the Star Trek franchise?


SPINER:
Yeah, that didn't happen at all - in the least.


PLUME: Where do the rumors like that keep coming from? Because they continuously resurface.


SPINER:
Yeah, but they come from people making them up. Almost anything you read on the Internet about what's going on on the set or what we're doing or anything, is untrue. We didn't take over in any respect. Rick Berman produced this movie, as he always does.


PLUME: I think the recent rumor was along the lines that, since the new TV series Enterprise is flagging at this point, Paramount was interested in a pitch from you and Patrick for revitalizing the franchise.


SPINER:
Yeah, not true at all. Basically what happened - and this was like a year before Enterprise went on the air, so that's how I know it's not true - Paramount, through Rick, called us and said if we could come up with a good story, they might be interested in doing another feature. It had nothing to do with Enterprise. Enterprise was like a glimmer in Rick's eye, at that point.


PLUME: Well, I know - of all of the Next Generation actors - it seems like you're one of the only ones who hasn't had the inclination towards directing.


SPINER:
Right.


PLUME: Was it just a personal choice that you kept turning down the offer?


SPINER:
No, it was never offered, but if it was - you know, I'm not really... the one thing that's required for directing, and Stuart had this in spades, is boundless energy. It's everything I can do just to show up, much less direct. Really, just in addressing some of the rumors - so little of it is fact. Really. So much of it is just nonsense. One thing that really continually bugs me that I hear about is the sort of negativity towards Rick. It's such an irony, because if it wasn't for Rick, Star Trek would have ended with our series. That would have been it - no more movies, no more TV, no more nothing. Rick is single-handedly the guy who kept Star Trek going - for the fans. He's probably the one person they're most negative about, without knowing that they owe him the fact that they have Star Trek to watch.


PLUME: Do you think a lot of the perpetual nature of that comes from how low-key Rick is?


SPINER:
I think that's part of it, and how much he likes to be in the background, and not be a personality. I think a lot of it has to do with the reverence for Gene - a well-deserved reverence for Gene. Anybody who sort of filled those shoes would have been shot down. It is absolutely crazy, because like it or not, the fans watch the show. Deep Space and Voyager and all of our movies have had really considerable audiences - maybe not as big as Next Generation had, but that was another time, too. Truly, Gene's participation on Next Generation pretty much came to an end by the third season.


PLUME: That's about the time his health really started to fail, wasn't it?


SPINER:
Yeah, and by the second season, really his participation was - and he was a wonderful man, and we loved him - but he watched the final cuts of the shows and gave notes on them. He didn't write them, or re-write them, or anything. Rick produced the show.


PLUME: So it was a consultation type aspect.


SPINER:
Yeah.

Much more in the full interview here.



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Not a fair interview to post now. | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:32:35 on Nov 06, 2009

This interview was conducted before Nemesis was even released, so I don't think Spiner could be as candid as he liked. I wonder what his response to this interview would be now, 7 years later. And how much of his responses were just "supporting the film no matter what" kind of talk. I just don't think this interview is pertinent now or even accurate to his actual opinions.

--------

-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.


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Spiner is partly responsible ... | Report this post to moderator
By: timmer33 (Odo's file, contact) @ 04:47:34 on Nov 06, 2009

... for how bad INS really was. I mean he had Picard and himself singing Gilbert & Sullivan, with a bouncing ball across the lyrics on a computer screen in the shuttlecraft! There's no way an exec would EVER suggest something that inane. It's the whole mood and tempo of that movie that killed it. Execs have to stop indulging actors who feel they know more than the writers/directors/producers.

INS is, IMHO, the worst of all the Treks, including #5.


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  • It IS the worst | Report this post to moderator
    By: prometheus 59650 (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 08:12:18 on Nov 06, 2009

    5 is watchable for the chemistry between the big 3.

    Insurrection is an MST3K episode waiting to happen. I'm literally embarrased for the actors while watching.

    --------

    "We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.

    "If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry


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Oh please... | Report this post to moderator
By: JamesT (Odo's file, contact) @ 03:39:09 on Nov 06, 2009

Spiner co-wrote the story with Logan and Berman - of course he's going to defend it. It's telling that he's the only cast member who, 7 years on, hasn't come out and told the truth about this shoddy film.

--------

JamesT


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Did Brent... | Report this post to moderator
By: katefan (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:40:20 on Nov 05, 2009

...see the same Star Trek: Nemesis movie that I saw? Because the Nemesis movie I saw was shit.

--------

"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."

Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep


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  • RE: Did Brent... | Report this post to moderator
    By: DIGINON (Odo's file, contact) @ 01:44:04 on Nov 06, 2009

    You've got to remember that this interview was done before Nemesis was released. Of course, Brent said back then that Nemesis was the best - especially since he was heavily involved in its creation. It's rare that actors bash a movie they are in before it's even out - except for Megan Fox, maybe.


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    • RE: Did Brent... | Report this post to moderator
      By: OriginalDefiant (Odo's file, contact) @ 02:50:44 on Nov 06, 2009

      Since he was involved in the creative process of the film, maybe he was too involved to look at it objectively! I know, being a creative guy myself, that it's not always easy to distance yourself from whatever you're working on to look at it through a fresh pair of eyes!

      The fact that Nemesis is so similar to TWoK should have raised some alarm bells in his head, though, if only to ensure that the film would avoid a lawsuit regarding plagiarism!


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      • RE: Did Brent... | Report this post to moderator
        By: DixonHill (Odo's file, contact) @ 03:28:21 on Nov 06, 2009

        While NEM was far from being a great movie it was neither utterly bad nor plagiarism. Why do people claim it was a TWOK rip-off? It wasn't. Apart from having a villain and space battles in some colorful nebula, there are absolutely no similarities. I agree that it was the "same kind of movie" and I've said it again and again that I'd really like to see a completely different approach again in future Trek movies...
        But it is a long way from "same kind of movie" to "plagiarism"...If that wasn't the case, EVERY 007 movie would a Dr No rip-off!


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        • RE: | Report this post to moderator
          By: rassmguy (Odo's file, contact) @ 04:44:20 on Nov 06, 2009

          "Apart from having a villain and space battles in some colorful nebula, there are absolutely no similarities."

          Sorry, Dix, I have to disagree with you there. Both films involve the main character facing the fact that he's getting older without a legacy to carry on his name, having an enemy connected to his younger days suddenly show up looking for revenge, having the science officer sacrifice his life to save the ship, having a soft ending to lessen the blow of that loss and so forth. Sure, there are also a lot of differences--Wrath of Khan being a good moie, for example--but structurally, there were a lot of similarities as well.


          --------

          Rich Handley
          Author, Timeline of the Planet of the Apes: The Definitive Chronology
          Available now from Hasslein Books
          www.hassleinbooks.com


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  • Hmm...guess there must be three versions out there... | Report this post to moderator
    By: The Magrathean (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:53:41 on Nov 05, 2009

    Because the one I saw was just mediocre. ;-)


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    • Hmm...maybe four versions... | Report this post to moderator
      By: GustavoLeao (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 00:02:21 on Nov 06, 2009

      Well, I just re-watched Nemesis again a few weeks ago and it was not as bad as I remember. I agree that most of it was mediocre, but there was good (very few) character scenes and the action was not that bad. A decent Star Trek movie, with good acting and good FX. Just my two cents, of course.

      Gustavo

      --------

      TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor

      gl2000@uol.com.br


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      • RE: Hmm...maybe four versions... | Report this post to moderator
        By: Cmdr. Riker (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:23:21 on Nov 06, 2009

        I saw Nemesis in the theatre twice, and loved it. I even wrote a glowing review that got featured on this site, way back then. Seven years later, my opinion hasn't changed.

        It's, by far, my favorite of the TNG films. I look forward to its release on BluRay.


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      • RE: Hmm...maybe four versions... | Report this post to moderator
        By: The Magrathean (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:34:11 on Nov 06, 2009

        I agree, Gustavo, there were some great character scenes in the movie. That's why I say overall it's at least a mediocre film. I won't gloss over its flaws -- the buggy scene gets pointed out frequently. The lack of a big budget also hurts it, and the fact hardly anyone besides Picard and Data have any meaty scenes is a crime.

        But there are some genuine, Trek worthy moments in this film. It wasn't a complete disaster, by any stretch.


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        • RE: Hmm...maybe four versions... | Report this post to moderator
          By: GustavoLeao (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 23:05:00 on Nov 06, 2009

          Too bad the best of the character scenes (Picard and Data toast, Deanna Troi encointer with Shinzon in the turbolift, the arrival of the new first officer and so forth) were cut from the movie by Stuart Baird and Rick Berman. I ma still waiting a longer, directors edition of Nemesis.

          Gustavo

          --------

          TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor

          gl2000@uol.com.br


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      • I'm glad, they are going... | Report this post to moderator
        By: DixonHill (Odo's file, contact) @ 03:35:53 on Nov 06, 2009 | Edit History (1)

        ...to release a fifth version on BluRay shortly :)

        Seriously, I agree there were some really bad aspects about that movie. I utterly hate the entire buggie scene on the planet B4 was found: visually and content-wise! This is the most superflous and idiotic single scene in Trek. Generally B4 was quite a nuissance until he became Data's new body in the final scene.

        But apart from that, I enjoyed a lot of aspects: Hardy's Shinzon was very well written and acted, Stewart delivered a very good counterpart to him. The SFX were great for their time and I loved the idea with the Remans and their mysterious costumes. I loved the Donatra scenes and her final decsion to help Picard. I even liked Admiral Janeway.

        The main problem with the movie is that it didn't work as an ensemble piece. Apart from Picard and Data, they reduced the other crewmembers to co-stars. That may have worked with the TOS crew as depicted in the series because TOS was basically Kirk, Spock and Bones. But TNG was a seven character show! You cannot make a good TNG movie focussing on Picard and Data and throwing in some lines for the others! This is were NEM failed and FC succeeded!


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        • RE: I'm glad, they are going... | Report this post to moderator
          By: GustavoLeao (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 05:15:39 on Nov 06, 2009

          I totally agree. Nemesis is NOT an emsemvle movie, and so Riker, La Forge, Worf and so forth, all have minor roles. Maybe thats why the movie does not work.

          Gustavo

          --------

          TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor

          gl2000@uol.com.br


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          • RE: I'm glad, they are going... | Report this post to moderator
            By: katefan (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:32:10 on Nov 06, 2009

            While I was not a big fan of DS9 I respected that they gave Worf a good send off, advancing his personal story by sending him back to Klingon. For them to just toss that away pissed me off to no end.

            --------

            "Oh, I'll wake up
            To any sound of engines,
            Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."

            Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep


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