then by all means. Jeez. They just turned Uhura, who was never much of a character, into Kate from "Lost" Season 3. She's defined by worrying about her man. Wow. Welcome to a whole new form of sexism.
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Even MattKFC wouldn't say something that dumb. Probably.
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"I would be happy for Star Trek to come along decades later with a new group of minds. I'd love someone to say, 'Besides this one, Gene Roddenberry's was nothing!'" - Gene Roddenberry
"...I think it would be wonderful years from now to see Star Trek come back with an equally talented new cast playing Spock and Kirk and Bones and Scotty and all the rest, as they say tomorrow's things to tomorrow's generations..." - Gene Roddenberry
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I'd say it's safe to assume you've never had a girlfriend, then, huh?
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"Oh relax, Cupcake. It was a joke."- James T. Kirk
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Lol.
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"I would be happy for Star Trek to come along decades later with a new group of minds. I'd love someone to say, 'Besides this one, Gene Roddenberry's was nothing!'" - Gene Roddenberry
"...I think it would be wonderful years from now to see Star Trek come back with an equally talented new cast playing Spock and Kirk and Bones and Scotty and all the rest, as they say tomorrow's things to tomorrow's generations..." - Gene Roddenberry
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Quote:
They just turned Uhura, who was never much of a character, into Kate from "Lost" Season 3. She's defined by worrying about her man. Wow. Welcome to a whole new form of sexism.
So by your "logic", no female is allowed to show grave concern and compassion for the male for which she is romantically involved? And if this is depicted it is solely a sexist ripoff of a TV show that debuted in 2005? What planet are you from? It seems to me that you and StillKirok are relics of a bye-gone era who would have preferred that the pretty black girl remain quietly in the background and not get close to the "big three" save for keeping Mr. Adventure in a closet at phaser-point. Her concern for Spock isn't sexism -- it's called being human. Try it sometime.
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-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.
They should intensify the love triangle - create tension.
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"I would be happy for Star Trek to come along decades later with a new group of minds. I'd love someone to say, 'Besides this one, Gene Roddenberry's was nothing!'" - Gene Roddenberry
"...I think it would be wonderful years from now to see Star Trek come back with an equally talented new cast playing Spock and Kirk and Bones and Scotty and all the rest, as they say tomorrow's things to tomorrow's generations..." - Gene Roddenberry
I think StillKirok (and others) are just "creeped out" at the notion of Spock and Uhura having a relationship. You guys try and support this with your argument that it was the "weakest" part of the film or that it never happened in TOS, etc. The fact of the matter is, this is a different universe than the one we used to know. The relationships between the major characters are going to be different. Though it was admittedly odd to see at first, I have no problems with what they have.
Indeed, the scene where Uhura is with Spock in the turbolift and asks him desperately, "What do you need?" and he somewhat coldly responds that he wants the crew to continue being brave and doing their jobs? That's probably one of the three scenes in the film that gets me all teary eyed for whatever reason. The writers can pair up whomever they want because this is a new universe. At least it's not a contrived mess like the Worf/Troi relationship was.
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-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.
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I don't think "creeped out" is the right word. It just that it's simply out of character. I get that it's a different timeline. But if this is still supposed to be Spock, it just doesn't make sense. And different universe or not, it's supposed to be the original characters, so changing them to the point where it's out of character doesn't make much sense.
The point of destroying the prime universe is to give them a clean slate, and certainly no one is saying that this isn't ALLOWED to happen, but it just didn't work for me, and a LOT of others.
One constant in this universe is that Spock is still battling his human v. Vulcan sides, and he CHOSE the Vulcan side. Logically, getting involved in a relationship with a human is a luxury he doesn't have. Such an involvement makes him appear less Vulcan. Sarek can pull that off because he IS a pure Vulcan and doesn't have to deal with the racism among his people.
I think the Spock/Uhura relationship just takes away from dealing with the major characters as they are EXPECTED to be. I'm not saying don't be unexpected, but the characters themselves should be kept in the same way as they were originally, since that's why these movies are happening in the first place.
They did a lot of things right in this movie. But the Spock/Uhura thing wasn't one of them.
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Quote:
I don't think "creeped out" is the right word. It just that it's simply out of character. I get that it's a different timeline.
I don't think you do because in this very sentence you have contradicted yourself. Their relationship would have been out of character in the OLD universe. But for the 15th time, we are in a completely new and different universe where literally, anything is possible and CANNOT be judged against what happened in the old universe where the Kelvin never encountered Nero. If you don't like the fact she's black and would have preferred Spock slobber over Nurse Chapel, please be frank for us! But this dancing routine you're giving us about "out of character" and "they didnt do it right" is complete bullsh*t. You just don't like the idea and therefore have declared that the makers of the film messed up. This of course is nothing more than your opinion, not a fact.
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-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.
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Again, it was NOT established that they had any kind of attraction in the original series, all grasping at straws aside. There was NOT any flirting. Wow.
And yes, it is a different timeline, but that doesn't mean they are COMPLETELY different characters.
Logically, in both timelines, Spock would NEVER engage in such a romance. And what the hell are you talking about bringing race into anything? Are you some sort of racist? I couldn't care less about that, and would have had the same reaction if it were Chapel. It doesn't work, and I think the overall negative reaction of the fan base speaks to that, even if the Abrams sheep would buy anything.
Even in a new timeline, there is such a thing as out of character. Why name a character Spock if he isn't going to be Spock? And sorry, but you absolutely CAN write lines for Uhura and keep her in character. Aside from the romance crap, they wrote Uhura EXTREMELY well.
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We showed two examples of Uhura and Spock's flirting on the show. For a now serialized series that is saying a lot. Especially when it was black on white flirting.
Second, Spock did have at least one failed relationship with a woman, it was revealed in the ep. with the spores that altered people.
Third: Abrams sheep? Says the Shatnerite.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
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Quote:
Logically, in both timelines, Spock would NEVER engage in such a romance.
Let's see you react "logically" after witnessing not only the death of your mother, but the destruction of your home world.
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It doesn't work, and I think the overall negative reaction of the fan base speaks to that,
Actually, most people have tended to say that while they weren't sure about it at first, in the end, they're fine with it and/or don't care.
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even if the Abrams sheep would buy anything.
Yet another unprovoked attack from you towards the people who don't subscribe to your insisting that your OPINION is the stone-cold truth of how things are/should be.
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Why name a character Spock if he isn't going to be Spock?
Because he is Spock. He just witnessed some very personal attacks against him that affected him in a way that Nimoy-Spock never faced.
Hell, in the face of all that, even Sarek had to admit to his emotional feelings for the wife he lost.
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"Oh relax, Cupcake. It was a joke."- James T. Kirk
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First off, it was established in the original series that Spock had relationships before, so sexually there is no barrier. Secondly, it is a different universe so there is a little room for play in regards to how relationships would play out (for example, how Kirk and Spock ultimately become friends despite their adversarial first encounter). And third, if we did have a movie where everyone was supposed to act in the manner they did in TOS then Uhura, Sulu and Chekov would be relegated to a few lines per movie and given very little to do.
I think JJ is attempting to expand the role of Uhura a little bit and he has used the argument that there was some flirting going on there on the bridge, that Uhura teased Spock a little and Spock certainly did not seem to mind. Considering Vulcan behavior a slight smile speaks volumes.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
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Agreed.
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"I would be happy for Star Trek to come along decades later with a new group of minds. I'd love someone to say, 'Besides this one, Gene Roddenberry's was nothing!'" - Gene Roddenberry
"...I think it would be wonderful years from now to see Star Trek come back with an equally talented new cast playing Spock and Kirk and Bones and Scotty and all the rest, as they say tomorrow's things to tomorrow's generations..." - Gene Roddenberry
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The relationships is fine, I agree. Sure, I was a little surprised by it, but this is, like you said, a different universe, and a slightly different Spock. Or maybe not even that much of a different Spock. We never did get to see him during his Academy years and the time before he served with Pike.
Even when he served with Pike, Spock seemed a bit more human, smiling on Talos IV, taking pride in his 3D chess skills, etc. So as far as a relationship goes, why not?
Seems that both of those examples are very weak. Spock only thought of Uhura as a competent colleague. There really doesn't seem to be compelling evidence that there was any romantic chemistry--certainly not enough to say, "yeah, check out the original series!"
Even if Uhura had feelings for Spock, I'm not buying that there was even a remote indication that they would be returned.
As for Uhura having feelings for Kirk, maybe "the hots" is too strong, but there was a sense that she viewed Kirk as a larger than life character. A sense of confidence and faith and pride. I'd have to think a little more on the subject. But ultimately, I felt more of a chemistry between Kirk and Uhura than SPOCK and Uhura. I think the connection is fairly weak in both cases.
Not every decision they made with the plot was good. Most of my comments on these boards have little to do with the actual story of the movie itself, because overall, I thought it was a pretty good movie. Not a GREAT movie, but a good one. However, this was an AWFUL call.
I never really felt there was any romantic tension between Uhura and Spock in the original series. Hell, even in their example, they are using Uhura/Kirk. Spock and Uhura had a few scenes together, but if anything, Uhura, like most of the women on the show, had the hots for Kirk.
What specific examples are they using?
I really didn't like this romance at all. It was one of the weaker parts of the film, maybe even the weakest.
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Good drama is more important than minutae.
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"I would be happy for Star Trek to come along decades later with a new group of minds. I'd love someone to say, 'Besides this one, Gene Roddenberry's was nothing!'" - Gene Roddenberry
"...I think it would be wonderful years from now to see Star Trek come back with an equally talented new cast playing Spock and Kirk and Bones and Scotty and all the rest, as they say tomorrow's things to tomorrow's generations..." - Gene Roddenberry
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Not to the Asperger's Brigade. To them, drama is this strange and effete thing they do not understand, so therefore they hate it. That's why they refer to characterization (and really any character-interaction beyond "hailing frequencies open, Captain") as 'soap opera'; they're only interested in complex plot-machinations. They think the characters should only be exposition-machines to get the plot from point A to point B. To them, a film or an episode of television is merely data to be memorized and cataloged; it's not art. They have no appreciation for art. They dont even know what it is.
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The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
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Agreed - drama should always come first.
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"I would be happy for Star Trek to come along decades later with a new group of minds. I'd love someone to say, 'Besides this one, Gene Roddenberry's was nothing!'" - Gene Roddenberry
"...I think it would be wonderful years from now to see Star Trek come back with an equally talented new cast playing Spock and Kirk and Bones and Scotty and all the rest, as they say tomorrow's things to tomorrow's generations..." - Gene Roddenberry
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I agree. Spock and Uhura ? No. I think Spock was more a kind of mentor to Uhura but nothing more. Now Scotty and Uhura (yes, I know, many people didnt like Star Trek V, which I loved)....sigh..
Gustavo
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TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
gl2000@uol.com.br
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Gustavo, you're falling into that trap of assuming that everything we see now must go the same way it did in the old universe. You should know better! All of the character's lives are different now and that means that laws of attraction from 40 years ago in TOS no longer apply. You need to free your mind and realize that anything is possible now.
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-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.
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In the episode Charlie X Uhura sings this song with Spock on the Vulcan harp:
Oh, on the starship Enterprise
There's someone who's in Satan's guise
Whose devil ears and devil eyes
Could rip your heart from you.
At first, his look could hypnotise
And then his touch would barbarise
His alien love could victimise
And rip your heart from you.
And that's why female astronauts,
Oh, very female astronauts
Wait terrified and overwrought
To find what he will do.
Oh, girls in space, be wary,
be wary, be wary,
Girls in space, be wary.
We know not what he'll do.
It is pretty obvious Spock is digging what Uhura is laying down.
Cameron Turner makes a convincing argument. Also bear in mind it was the sixties so the writers could only do so much without freaking out the censors.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
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True - Uhura flirted with both Kirk and Spock.
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"I would be happy for Star Trek to come along decades later with a new group of minds. I'd love someone to say, 'Besides this one, Gene Roddenberry's was nothing!'" - Gene Roddenberry
"...I think it would be wonderful years from now to see Star Trek come back with an equally talented new cast playing Spock and Kirk and Bones and Scotty and all the rest, as they say tomorrow's things to tomorrow's generations..." - Gene Roddenberry
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I'm sorry but I don't recall anything in TOS that would indicate that Uhura had the "hots" for Kirk. Can you give an example?
As for flirtation between Spock and Uhura, there was that scene where Uhura asked Spock about Vulcan nights when the moon was full. She certainly wasn't just chitchatting there.
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