He can't be a troll because.... | Report this post to moderator
By: prometheus 59650 (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 10:03:00 on Jun 30, 2009

...he says 'thank you for the post' now.

As though that makes up for blathering, mindless insults, and the general nothing he brings to the table.

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"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.

"If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry

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What about Linda Hamilton? | Report this post to moderator
By: SuperDave (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:55:45 on Jun 30, 2009

I remember hearing that Linda Hamilton had been considered as well..

Why they didn't go with her, I'll never know...she would have kicked ass as Janeway. Voyager was a pretty lame show, but Linda Hamilton would have made it better...

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• What about Lindsay Wagner? | Report this post to moderator
  By: GustavoLeao (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 10:13:14 on Jun 30, 2009

  According to rumor (and an old issue of Cinescape magazine) Paramount wanted Lindsay Wagner (The Bionic Woman) but she declined the offer and then Bujold show interest and the rest is history.
  
  Gustavo
  
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  gl2000@uol.com.br

  
  

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Kate Mulgrew was awful! | Report this post to moderator
By: Muldfeld (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:53:24 on Jun 30, 2009 | (1)

Okay, first and foremost, I blame Berman and Braga for forcing the writing staff to do drivel and formula, but Kate Mulgrew always overacted, even when Michael Piller presumably had more clout. I wanted to like her for the first few years, but I now shudder every time she launches into one of her speeches and acts like she's on the verge of a Eureka moment, smiling ridiculously as she pontificates supposedly open-mindedly.

Terrible show with a captain just as bad as Archer.

Bujold was at least trying to play it realistically, but the producers would have forced her to do the same thing over and over and she probably would have grown sick of it.

Thanks for posting the interview.

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• RE: Kate Mulgrew was awful! | Report this post to moderator
  By: NCC-1701 (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:33:53 on Jul 01, 2009

  Mulgrew was great. She owns Janeway - especially when you see Bujold's performance.
  
  She is Janeway, no one else could be.

  
  

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• Kate Mulgrew was fine. | Report this post to moderator
  By: prometheus 59650 (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 09:54:02 on Jun 30, 2009 | (1)

  Janeway's writing was awful.
  
  On the other hand Bujold delivered every line as though she had to finish before her Ambien kicked in for the night.
  
  THAT was awful.
  
  --------
  
  "We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.
  
  "If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry

  
  

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  • RE: Kate Mulgrew was fine. | Report this post to moderator
    By: OV-101 (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:33:29 on Jun 30, 2009

    Yeah. Maybe Lunesta next time?
    
    I agree. The material that any of the aformentioned actresses had to work with was way subpar. I find that Mulgrew did a good job working with what she had. That goes true for Scott Bakula as well. I think they are all great at their work and really deserved more praise that they have received, IMHO.
    
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    "Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."
    -- John Wayne
    
    "Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence."
    --Dr. Leonard McCoy
    
    "I'm a politician, which means I am a cheat and a liar, and when I am not kissing babies I am stealing their lollipops."
    -- Jeffrey Pelt, The Hunt for Red October
    
    "Liberals, Intellectuals, Peacemongers, IDIOTS!!!!"
    - General Decker, Mars Attacks
    
    "It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires, both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
    - Q from Q Who

    
    

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    • RE: Kate Mulgrew was fine. | Report this post to moderator
      By: GustavoLeao (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 10:39:11 on Jun 30, 2009

      Mulgrew ? Yes.
      
      Bakula ? No.
      
      And I am a big Quantum Leap fan.....LOL
      
      Gustavo
      
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      gl2000@uol.com.br

      
      

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      • RE: Kate Mulgrew was fine. | Report this post to moderator
        By: prometheus 59650 (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 12:41:26 on Jun 30, 2009

        I think, part of Bakula's problem is that he really only knows how to play one thing well: the everyman.
        
        
        Well, not even speaking to the poor writing, that portrayal can't work. Commanding Starfleet's first ship is not the job for an everyman. It's a job for the best of the best of the best.
        
        Juvenile writing + an everyman approach = the appearance of a guy who got one of the most important jobs in human history up to that point because his daddy built the engine.
        
        That just makes it worse.
        
        
        
        
        --------
        
        "We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.
        
        "If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry

        
        

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        • Didn't Bakula win a Tony award | Report this post to moderator
          By: Muldfeld (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:47:04 on Jun 30, 2009

          I don't know if these things are like the Emmys or Grammys and more determined by popularity (the cast of Heroes should NEVER have been nominated for Emmys, let alone when BSG actors weren't!), but I'm assuming Bakula won a Tony because he was a good actor.
          
          I know I've criticized Abrams a lot, but one of my big problems which he shares with Berman/Braga in the late '90s and 2000s is they rely on stereotypical Americana. So, Trip and Archer are evidence of trying extra hard to be tough guy Americans, who aren't overly smart, but just smart enough. Even Travis and his cheesy nostalgia about being on the frontier of space or whatever. It's all so bad.
          
          It's like they never trusted the characters to be original and felt they had to force it into some Hollywood stereotype. No one can pull this stuff off, and it's probably why the actor for Chakotay hated his role apart from barely having one in the later years, too; it was so self-consciously "spiritual".

          
          

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          • RE: Didn't Bakula win a Tony award | Report this post to moderator
            By: prometheus 59650 (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 14:37:02 on Jun 30, 2009 | (1)

            Quote:
            I don't know if these things are like the Emmys or Grammys and more determined by popularity (the cast of Heroes should NEVER have been nominated for Emmys, let alone when BSG actors weren't!), but I'm assuming Bakula won a Tony because he was a good actor.
            
            I didn't say he was a bad actor. I just said he did one thing really well. I don't think he has much range.
            
            Winning a Tony, or an Oscar, say, just means you did a great job (better than your peers) in your role that year. It doesn't necessarily mean you're a good actor. Lots of actors in Oscar history have lucked into that one golden moment. Cuba Gooding Jr., for instance, had his momentand hasn't done anything of note since.
            
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            So, Trip and Archer are evidence of trying extra hard to be tough guy Americans, who aren't overly smart, but just smart enough. Even Travis and his cheesy nostalgia about being on the frontier of space or whatever. It's all so bad.
            
            The problem is far deeper. Look at Enterprise. We have Archer, who was intended to be the maverick frontiersman. T'Pol...cool, logical voice of wisdom. Trip...southern gent with his heart on his sleeve. Sound familiar?
            
            B & B tried recreating the TOS chemistry; the triumverate. Hard to do when you've said outright that you never watched TOS. The only one of the three characters that worked was Trip. Reasonably well written and given to an actor who's really hard not to like all by himself.
            
            I've already hit on Archer, but T'Pol. Blalock's approach wasn't emotionless, it was lifeless. Bujold was actually more emotive and for me that's saying something. And to make it worse the whole thing was a case of..."Oooooooh, help us oogle the sexpot." Except, unlike Jeri Ryan, there was nothing appealing about that woman's wax lips, fake breasts, or skeletal frame. Linda Park was 5x the women Blalock was.
            
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            . No one can pull this stuff off, and it's probably why the actor for Chakotay hated his role apart from barely having one in the later years, too; it was so self-consciously "spiritual".
            
            Chakotay's problem IMHO (And Beltran seems to agree) was that (in addition to the scripts being horrible) the spirituality was his only not. What more do you REALLY know about him after 7 years? On top of that, no one knew or wanted to learn how to write from a Native American perspective.
            
            It turned a potential source of depth into his schtick.
            
            --------
            
            "We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.
            
            "If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry

            
            

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            • RE: Didn't Bakula win a Tony award | Report this post to moderator
              By: Muldfeld (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:18:11 on Jun 30, 2009

              Good points. I never realized the Enterprise triumvirate was meant to echo the original series' one.
              
              Regarding awards, though, they call it the curse of the Oscar. Jodie Foster hasn't acted in ANYTHING good since "Silence of the Lambs". I assumed either that Gooding either was never that good or just hasn't found the right story. That said, I barely ever watched Quantum Leap, so I know nothing about they guy who played Archer. He was better than Harry Kim, though; now THAT was a terrible character!
              
              I'll give Blalock credit, though, for criticizing the writing of her show. She wanted to do more and publicly resented being used as a sex object. For what it's worth, I thought she was very sexy. Terrible show, though. I haven't watched more than half of them.

              
              

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            • RE: Didn't Bakula win a Tony award | Report this post to moderator
              By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:49:29 on Jun 30, 2009

              Wow, I haven't seen more broad generalizing in one post before. Sorry prometheus 59650, we are usually allies but i'm going to have to call you on a couple of these points of yours...
              
              - Scott Bakula is not only a decent actor, but he can demonstrate range. He didn't need to demonstrate such range in Enterprise because there was no need. He showed jovial moments and serious ones quite well. I don't think any fault could be found in Bakula's portrayal of Archer -- remember, that the main reason for the show's declining ratings had little to do with the writing, casting or production.
              
              - Cuba Gooding Jr.'s problem isn't that he doesn't have range or that he's a bad actor -- on the contrary. He (like Eddie Murphy) has made some bad decisions in the last decade, in terms of the roles he has accepted.
              
              - What about the triumverate of Archer, T'Pol and Trip didn't work? Noone will ever be Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley and considering the events the three pricipals of Enterprise had to endure, they did a fine job. Whether or not Braga ever watched TOS is irellevant because he did not write every word, of every episode.. far from it! You should keep an open mind, stop trying to compare them to Kirk, Spock and McCoy and get off Braga's back.
              
              - The sexpot that you say they oogled saved that television show. She was an example of a ratings gimmick that actually worked. And you can praise Hoshi Sato for being the "asian girl next door" but Jolene Blalock is a San Diego resident and we have mutual friends. Her lips and breasts are not only very real, but she is an athlete who has competed in track and volleyball. "Skeletal" must be your way of saying "fits her catsuit like a glove."
              
              - Robert Beltran (aka Chakotay) was just a victim of underuse. He wasn't a bad character, he just happened to be one of the least-compelling in the cast; with only Harry Kim being less so than he. He bitched about it and noone called him out because he was right. I think the weak relationship he was set up with Seven at the end of the show was the writer's way of "giving him something to do".
              
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              -- Steve
              "If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

              
              

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              • RE: Didn't Bakula win a Tony award | Report this post to moderator
                By: prometheus 59650 (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 18:41:17 on Jun 30, 2009

                Quote:
                What about the triumverate of Archer, T'Pol and Trip didn't work?
                
                All of it. He spent half the series hating her guts and being petulant to the point of making decisions almost just to spite her. How is THAT a functioning dynamic?
                
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                Whether or not Braga ever watched TOS is irellevant because he did not write every word, of every episode.. far from it! You should keep an open mind, stop trying to compare them to Kirk, Spock and McCoy and get off Braga's back.
                
                I compare them because that's what the producers were trying to recreate in a cheap attempt to get viewers and failed miserably at doing. It doesn't matter who wrote what because the goal was clear between the two producers and should be judged on whether or not they achieved it. They didn't. Archer and Trip worked. Even Trip and T'Pol worked on some lesser level, but they never meshed TOGETHER.
                
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                The sexpot that you say they oogled saved that television show. She was an example of a ratings gimmick that actually worked.
                
                Prove this statement, please. How did it "save" the show?
                
                Quote:
                but Jolene Blalock is a San Diego resident and we have mutual friends. Her lips and breasts are not only very real, but she is an athlete who has competed in track and volleyball. "Skeletal" must be your way of saying "fits her catsuit like a glove."
                
                I didn't say her lips weren't real. I said they looked like wax.
                
                And her breasts are fake. Absolutely, positively, utterly, completely fake. Anyone with close to 20/20 vision can tell they are.
                
                And no, not "fits her catsuit like a gluve." More like "Jesus, give this woman a cheeseburger because she looks like a famine victim that I swear could probably debone a chicken with her collarbone." It's just a little disgusting.
                
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                He wasn't a bad character, he just happened to be one of the least-compelling in the cast;
                
                And why is that, hmm? It's not Beltran's fault. He's a crap character because, as with much of B&B's grand plans they couldn't write their way out of a wet paper bag. So they left Chakotay as a character to die on the vine. Nothing you've said even disagrees with that assertion.
                
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                He bitched about it and noone called him out because he was right
                
                He bitched about the crap writing in general and Chakotay's uselessness (as written) in particular. And, ohhh so many fans called him out. Called him ungrateful and trashed Chakotay as a crap character as though that was somehow Beltran's fault.
                
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                I think the weak relationship he was set up with Seven at the end of the show was the writer's way of "giving him something to do".
                
                It was nonsense. Beltran called it left field nonsense. I actually heard from 20 feet away Jeri Ryan call it nonsense and "kind of stupid." It was just B & B being done with it and taking one last opportunity to put as much thought and care into Chakotay as they had for the previous 7 years.
                
                --------
                
                "We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.
                
                "If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry

                
                

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              • RE: Didn't Bakula win a Tony award | Report this post to moderator
                By: GustavoLeao (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 17:12:14 on Jun 30, 2009

                Disagree on Bakula.
                
                Agreed on Jolene and Beltran.
                
                Good post.
                
                Gustavo
                
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                TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
                
                gl2000@uol.com.br

                
                

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                • RE: Didn't Bakula win a Tony award | Report this post to moderator
                  By: DavidDownUnder (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:25:43 on Jun 30, 2009

                  Agree on Linda Park. (Yum!).
                  
                  Seriously, though, poor Linda - she started okay, then quickly became 'space wimp' while trying to settle onto the NX, then we got the 'Hoshi bakes a cake' episode for Malcolm, and who can forget the 'Opps, Hoshi loses her top!' scene. All in the first season.
                  
                  Fortunately those were put behind her, even though she subsequently had to wait too long for some decent opportunities such as the 'telepath prisoner' ep in the Xindi Arc, and then we had her absolutely SUPERB turn as Emperor Sato at the end of the Mirror Universe two-parter.
                  
                  (Anyway, I like Joelene and think she also did much better for herself as an actress once they moved past Vulcan cheesecake and 'decon shower' scenes. But Linda Park's more my sorta gal for spending a five year mission with).
                  
                  
                  

                  
                  

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• RE: Kate Mulgrew was awful! | Report this post to moderator
  By: GustavoLeao (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 09:29:10 on Jun 30, 2009

  You are welcomed.
  
  And I disagree.
  
  Kate Mulgrew was terrific as Janeway.
  
  Gustavo
  
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  gl2000@uol.com.br

  
  

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• RE: Kate Mulgrew was awful! | Report this post to moderator
  By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:04:31 on Jun 30, 2009

  Just curious Muldfeld... is there any Star Trek that you DO like? Rather than just blindly accuse you of being a troll, I figured I would ask first.
  
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  -- Steve
  "If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

  
  

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Did she quit, or was she 'let go'..? | Report this post to moderator
By: DavidDownUnder (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:25:27 on Jun 30, 2009 | (1)

Bujold says she quit but everything I've read, including the official Voyager ep guide, said she was 'let go' because she just wasn't right for the role - she conveyed no energy or sense of command. Her dialogue delivery was just so flat and empty.

Even her presence - I mean, Kate Mulgrew's not exactly tall, and she may be only slightly taller than Bujold, but Bujold has zilch 'presence', whereas Mulgrew fills her space and then some, and draws the eye and the focus towards her.

Anyway, perhaps Bujold's exit was more of a mutual decision, because the same sources have also repeated what Bujold said about her being unready for the grueling schedule of episodic weekly TV – but I definitely got the feeling that it was the producers who moved first and said "Nah, she just AIN'T right".

And God bless 'em for making that call, otherwise we'd never have enjoyed so many years of the wonderful Kate Mulgrew fleshing out a far superior version of Janeway.

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• RE: Did she quit, or was she 'let go'..? | Report this post to moderator
  By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:02:26 on Jun 30, 2009

  Her being let go was very much a mutual process. Even though she technically "quit" the show, everyone on set pretty much knew she wasn't right for the part. I have seen her in a film with Parker Posie and I am shocked she was ever cast as Janeway to be honest -- she seemed too old and... umm, French-Canadian schoolteacher like.
  
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  -- Steve
  "If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

  
  

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name | Report this post to moderator
By: Trekkerj (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:23:05 on Jun 30, 2009

I thought she was originally called "Elizabeth" Janeway

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• Nicole vs Elizabeth | Report this post to moderator
  By: GustavoLeao (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 09:26:57 on Jun 30, 2009

  Jeri Taylor wanted Elizabeth Janeway, but Bujold insisted in "Nicole", her real name, to be used and Rick Berman agreed. So it was Captain Nicole Janeway. Nuff said.
  
  Gustavo
  
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  gl2000@uol.com.br

  
  

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collar | Report this post to moderator
By: FusionVideo (Odo's file, contact) @ 06:28:32 on Jun 30, 2009

Her uniform collar sure is high.

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