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Another Star Trek Footage Review, Criticizes J.J. Abrams - Major Spoilers 

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By GustavoLeao / 04:13, 19 November 2008 / Star Trek: Nemesis

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Reviewer and Star Trek fan Jordan Hoffman of UGO posted a detailed review of the Star Trek footage show in New York early this week. While impressed with the 25 minutes of footage, Hoffman also criticizes director J.J. Abrams in his article. Here are few excerpts of his report, including his review of scene 3 :

 

"J.J. Abrams struts up like the smartest kid in Hebrew school.  The first thing out of his mouth - the very motherloving first thing out of his mouth - is "I've never been a fan of Star Trek." the reviewer wrote "WTF?!??!  Not only is this insulting and lame, it is rehearsed.  He's said this in interviews fifteen times already.  Maybe he thinks it is cute, but I just find it rude. J.J. Abrams needs to understand that he is a guest in our house.  If he can't be polite, we won't invite him over to play anymore.  It's as simple as that."
 
THIRD SCENE


I think this is actually fourth in the timeline of stuff we saw.  Spock is now in control of the Enterprise and he dispatches Kirk on some planet.  There he meets someone - old Spock.  L-Nim!  Leonard Nimoy.  The man that makes all of these canon paradoxes okay.


While we weren't given the set up, precisely, of what Spock is trying to do, we know that he must get Kirk back on the Enterprise.  To do this, they meet up with Scotty who has been dispatched to some lonely part of the galaxy for killing a chief muckity mucks dog with his intra-warp beaming techniques.


Simon Pegg is terrific as Scotty.  In fact, if it weren't for Urban as McCoy, I'd be losing my mind about Pegg.


To make a long story short, Spock gets Scotty to get Kirk back on board.  But not before raising an eyebrow, saying, "Fascinating" and slipping out a "Live long and prosper." Also - it would appear that Spock's closely vested emotions will become a major plot point in the story.  That Kirk will only be able to save the day by getting Spock to admit that he is an emotional creature.....or something.


a final nod to the audience, Kirk admonished Spock for his plans, saying something to the tune of "Time travel - isn't that cheating?" While this may be a little dig at the screenwriters, Spock keeps it in house, firing back an "I learned it from an old friend."


If you are a true Trekkie, you know haw fantastic it is to see Nimoy as Spock one more time.  I don't know if any closure is given to the TNG episode "Unification II" (I kinda doubt it) but the decision to include Leonard Nimoy in this project is without question the smartest decision anyone on the team made.  I know for a fact I'll pay for tickets at least four times just to see the scenes he appears in.  I should probably erase that last line, lest it gets saved for the commitment hearings that no doubt await me.

The full review of the trailer and scenes 1, 2 and 4, plus comments on the NY screening can be found at UGO.



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My response to UGO reviewer Jordan Hoffman's douchebaggery | Report this post to moderator
By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:07:22 on Nov 19, 2008 | Edit History (2)

“The first thing out of his mouth - the very motherloving first thing out of his mouth - is “I’ve never been a fan of Star Trek.”

So what!


“Not only is this insulting and lame...”

Please. It’s not “insulting” in the least. You’re just an obsessive dork with an axe to grind about this movie (as your moronic “booo!” demonstrated). Virtually every word coming out of your keyboard has been a reflection of this.


“He’s said this in interviews fifteen times already.”

Because it was relevant to what he had to say, which you of course paraphrased out of all recognition and muddled even further with your idiotic prose.


“Maybe he thinks it is cute...”

Or maybe it’s just a fact and he’s not trying to irritate you because he doesn’t care about you (BECAUSE THIS ISN’T ABOUT YOU).


“...but I just find it rude.”

No you dont. You’re just saying that because you're a drama-queen looking for attention (and, congratulations, it’s working: fan sites are linking to your crap all over the web).


“J.J. Abrams struts up like the smartest kid in Hebrew school.”

*rolls eyes*

You dont even know this man, and you’re slagging on him personally. Sounds like you’ve got some career-envy. You wouldn’t by chance happen to be what most ‘critics’ are, would you? You know, a failed insert whatever profession you cover here--->________?


“...he was so in love with Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman’s script, he wound up saying “yes” to directing it. He questioned himself, “How could I say ‘yes’ to this project?” As if Star Trek had the cooties and was corroded. “I didn’t even know they’d made ten movies already. Who wants to be 11th?” I know who, someone who likes Star Trek!!!! By now my acid reflux is acting up and I am starting to get nauseous. J.J. introduces the first scene, “Where we first meet Spock. No, not Spock - the other one - Kirk. Spock is the one with the...” and he points to his ears. No, I am not making this up.”

Shut. The. Fuck. Up.


“A drunk Jim Kirk is hitting on....Uhura? H-what? It’s ten seconds in and there’s a canon violation.”

No it’s not. Do you even know what ‘canon’ is? There is nothing, NOTHING, in the Star Trek canon that explains how, when, or what the circumstances were when James Kirk met Uhura. NOT. ONE. DAMN. THING.


“Kirk would never be crude to Uhura. It’s not in his nature.”

For someone so obsessed with canon you dont seem to know shit about it. Yes, it is not in the nature of the adult Kirk to behave that way. But this is not the adult Kirk, moron. People change. The start one way. Then they grow up (although maybe not you).

Not only do you not understand what canon is, you also seem to have no comprehension of the “hero’s journey” narrative. Kirk begins as the brash young man that grows into the heroic Captain Kirk. It’s an ancient archetype, the mythic tale of the hero that has recurred over and over in every culture through out history; and there is no reason in the world why the rise of James Kirk cant be (or shouldn't be) that same classic story.

What little we know about Kirk’s youth points to his being quite a charming, though wild, young man (watch Khan again). So this was a great opportunity to take an iconic character and apply Campbell’s “hero’s journey” frame to his early life. It’s classic story-telling and the fact that you dont get that speaks volumes.

How the hell did you get the gig as UGO’s rep for this event anyway?


“Uhura looks at the menu. Dialogue flies by fast, but I caught a reference to Cardassian Ale, Budweiser Classic (ugh - product placement sullying Trek) and (it was later confirmed) Slusho. Now - that’s just the last straw. J.J. Abrams - esteemed author of Gone Fishin’ - has the stones to slip a line to HIS mythology in Star Trek!?!? That doesn’t come across as NERVY to you?!? Unbelievable. Really unbelievable.”

Okay...who’s your editor? I need to have a word with him. I cant believe he publishes your tripe for the world to see.


“Anyway, Uhura, who claims not to have a first name (it’s Nyota, by the way)...”

Again, for someone so concerned about canon, you dont know jack about it. The notion of ‘Nyota’ being Uhura’s first name is apocryphal. At no time in a single frame of live-action Star Trek (i.e. canon) has a “first name” for Uhura EVER been shown or spoken. Meaning that she 1) either didnt have a “first name” or 2) it was just, for whatever reason, never revealed.


“Then Bruce Greenwood as Captian Pike walks in. (Canon violation - Pike and Kirk aren’t supposed to know one another...”

The only mention of this comes from such a throw-away bit of dialogue that it renders the whole notion meaningless. It came in an early episode of TOS when the writers were still getting a handle on things. Just a few weeks before, they were still calling Spock a Vulcanian.


“It may surprise you to learn that Chris Pine isn’t all that bad...”

No. It only surprises you because, like I said, you came into this with an axe to grind.


“I just am having a hard time seeing Kirk as a whiny loser...”

Projection.


“...trying to pick up Uhura in a bar. I can’t accept it. I just can’t.”

Yeah...we covered why that is.


“Her name is Nyota!” I shouted - in reference to the scene where Uhura claimed to have only one name. He may or may not have heard me.”

*snorts*

Idiot.

--------

Image
The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
only hollow rhythms resounded from within.


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  • RE: My response to UGO reviewer Jordan Hoffman's douchebaggery | Report this post to moderator
    By: brett (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:36:17 on Nov 19, 2008

    hey man.

    im not married to canon but it is in the menagerie that kirk says that he only met pike once just before he was promoted to being fleet captain.

    but the canon thing is wierd. and it seems the movie guys took info from all sorts of sources. some official and some not. tiberius is actually from TAS.

    canon freaks need to take a close look at where no man has gone before and try to rationalize the james R. kirk tombstone. how about vulcan and vulcanian?

    i think this movie will bypass canon all together by disrupting the timeline at the begining.

    but people get to know things. they get to like them. they are touched by them and they feel a certain sense of ownership.

    this is a very touchy subject. its gonna be along and entertaining six months. (i have already posted here more in the past 2 days than i have in the past 7 years)

    b.


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    • RE: My response to UGO reviewer Jordan Hoffman's douchebaggery | Report this post to moderator
      By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 18:53:16 on Nov 19, 2008

      "im not married to canon but it is in the menagerie that kirk says that he only met pike once just before he was promoted to being fleet captain."

      And Kirk's middle initial is "R" in Where No Man Has Gone Before, and Spock's a 'Vulcanian' in another early episode. ;)

      --------

      Image
      The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
      my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
      breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
      only hollow rhythms resounded from within.


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jewish | Report this post to moderator
By: brett (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:04:36 on Nov 19, 2008

probably not a good idea to insult jewish people if you ever want to get any more "inside scoops" in the movie business.

im just sayin is all...

b.


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Criticism | Report this post to moderator
By: admiral_qua (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:16:45 on Nov 19, 2008 | Edit History (2)

I don't see any valid criticism here, all I see is a nerd getting his panties in a bunch because in his mind Kirk would never hit on Uhura or be "crude" to her (nvm this is pre captaincy in his younger days and all that). Give me a break.


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Stupid comments | Report this post to moderator
By: Poetwarrior78 (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:19:50 on Nov 19, 2008

"J.J. Abrams needs to understand that he is a guest in our house. If he can't be polite, we won't invite him over to play anymore. It's as simple as that."

Stupidest thing I ever heard. Why do some people identify with Trek so much that they take the faintest perceived slight personally? If Abrams wasn't a fan, it's perfectly appropriate for him to say so. And the fact that he's said it "fifteen times already" wouldn't have meant much to the average person in his audience, given that they probably have't read every interview he gives about the new film.

--------

"If there was nothing wrong in the world there wouldn't be anything for us to do." -- George Bernard Shaw


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JOIN ME TREK FANS | Report this post to moderator
By: IamKirok!!! (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:16:04 on Nov 19, 2008

In writing a complaint to UGO for that racist bullshit.


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Insulting | Report this post to moderator
By: timmer33 (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:16:52 on Nov 19, 2008

"J.J. Abrams struts up like the smartest kid in Hebrew school."

This is an absolutely insulting statement. What does his background/culture have to do with anything here? Why point it out? Is he trying to be funny? To me it comes across as being ignorant and just plain dumb. It negates anything he says after; calls into question the validity of his views on the film, regardless if it is a positive or a negative.


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  • Insulting or just the plain truth... | Report this post to moderator
    By: digital_moose (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:00:25 on Nov 19, 2008

    So he didnt' like star trek.... I don't like family guy.... but family guy fans shouldn't be insulted....

    I thought the point was that through the process he has come to like star trek....

    Nick Meyer didn't like star trek it was "the one with the guy with pointed ears..." it wasn't until he treated like a Horatio Hornblower movie that he could even relate to it... and he gave us the best trek on the silver screen...


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  • RE: Insulting - No it is not. | Report this post to moderator
    By: Rayna Kapec (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 10:10:02 on Nov 19, 2008

    As a Jew myself I find it both amusing and true, given the context of what he said, and why he said it, lol indeed!

    There is nothing insulting about what he wrote, it is just the insulting J.J. Abrams Star Wars - general audience take.. on Star Trek 11, that is insulting.


    Shalom,
    LL&P
    Amy Jennings

    --------

    .."Tis a thirst....a flower... dying in the desert....

    "Stop, No!, Do not order me!"

    "I choose where I want to go, what I want to do... I CHOOSE!"


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Even if the movie is a financial sucsess...it will lose. | Report this post to moderator
By: Rayna Kapec (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 07:50:35 on Nov 19, 2008 | Edit History (1)

Please see update on shoreleave...come mourn with me the death of Star Trek.

respectfully

Amy

--------

.."Tis a thirst....a flower... dying in the desert....

"Stop, No!, Do not order me!"

"I choose where I want to go, what I want to do... I CHOOSE!"


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  • RE: Even if the movie is a financial sucsess...it will lose. | Report this post to moderator
    By: critch (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:03:18 on Nov 19, 2008

    People like you remind me of the tiny fanbase of the original Galactica that endlessly think that Ron Moore ripped them off and that the new show is horrible for no reason.

    Guess what genius, Star Trek was DEAD. Your Trek that you love so much did so horribly that in a year span it had a cancelled show and a flop movie. You didn't support it, you lost it.

    If it's a financial success, it'll have gained millions of new fans while getting the vast majority of the old. Star Trek will be alive and relevant for the first time in decades.

    Why do you hate Trek?


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  • RE: Even if the movie is a financial sucsess...it will lose. | Report this post to moderator
    By: TommyHawk (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:43:38 on Nov 19, 2008

    Quote:
    ...Yes, Because they've decided to slap the hardcore fanbase in the face by taking away all the serious elements of Star Trek, instead choosing to appeal to the boorish preferences of the mainstream moviegoer (in your face explosions, car chases, etc), but they forgot one thing: the mainstream moviegoer already hates Star Trek. The average young person nowadays has only seen little snippets of Voyager as they flip between channels, and even if they've managed to drag themselves to the theaters, they've been treated with a series of downright horrible films. In either case, what they've seen, they hate.

    Maybe I'm wrong and the dazzling special effects space firefights and quick shots of some hot teenage-looking actress's boobs will lure in millions of viewers (probably what's going to happen, now that I think of it), but the loyal and dedicated fans of the series that mounted a letter-writing campaign to name the first U.S. Space Shuttle "Enterprise" are already disillusioned,


    Comments like these that give the fanbase a bad rap. People see 2 minutes of a teaser trailer and already they know how the movie goes, and can tell us POINT BY POINT what is and what isn't in the movie. Yep!

    Please, do tell us more about your "knowledge" of the new movie.


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  • RE: | Report this post to moderator
    By: rassmguy (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:41:02 on Nov 19, 2008

    "but the loyal and dedicated fans of the series that mounted a letter-writing campaign to name the first U.S. Space Shuttle "Enterprise" are already disillusioned,"

    Some, perhaps, but definitely not all. I'm from that generation, and I'm very excited about this film, as are most other die-hards I know personally.


    --------

    Rich Handley
    Author, Timeline of the Planet of the Apes: The Definitive Chronology
    Available now from Hasslein Books
    www.hassleinbooks.com


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I Agree. Time to Stop | Report this post to moderator
By: c.p. (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:28:27 on Nov 19, 2008

I understand the tactic, to say, "Hey larger audience, I'm one of you. I hate that nerdy stuff too, so come and see my Star Trek movie because it's more like Star Wars." And then they hopefully come and unwittingly end up loving a real Star Trek movie.

I understand that, but I think the purpose has been served and I agree with the reviewer that it comes across as rude to the core fans at this point. I don't fault him for doing it for a while but it's time to stop and let the scenes speak for themselves because apparently they're doing their job.


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Huh | Report this post to moderator
By: Logic Incarnate (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 07:07:27 on Nov 19, 2008

Since Trekkers are the only ones reading these speeches that JJA gives - you gotta wonder exactly who the hell all the 'im not a fan' and 'I prefer Star Wars' comments are aimed at.

Afterall, who the hell else apart from fans, are actually watching the development of this movie on sites like this every day?

--------

1


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Fanboys... | Report this post to moderator
By: Captain's Blog (Odo's file, contact) @ 06:21:45 on Nov 19, 2008

Nick Meyer wasn't and still isn't a fan of Trek. He'd seen Space Seed and the first movie when he made Khan. So there.

--------

"I would be happy for Star Trek to come along decades later with a new group of minds. I'd love someone to say, 'Besides this one, Gene Roddenberry's was nothing!'" - Gene Roddenberry

"...I think it would be wonderful years from now to see Star Trek come back with an equally talented new cast playing Spock and Kirk and Bones and Scotty and all the rest, as they say tomorrow's things to tomorrow's generations..." - Gene Roddenberry


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RE: Fan/No Fan | Report this post to moderator
By: DixonHill (Odo's file, contact) @ 05:30:57 on Nov 19, 2008

You have to understand that he keeps saying this because he wants to reach the GENERAL MEDIA and AUDIENCE. The fans are going to see it anyway. By repeatedly claiming he is not a fan, he wants to invite non-fans to see it because they can more identify with a non-fan director/producer...it's as simple as that!


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Fan/No Fan | Report this post to moderator
By: Jean-Luc (Odo's file, contact) @ 04:43:00 on Nov 19, 2008

Is it a big deal if the director is a big fan of Star Trek? Nick Meyer wasn't that up on it. I doubt Robert Wise knew much more than the average person, and I'm thinking Stuart Baird was just a bad director.

I admit I don't know much about filmmaking, but I would think that if the director knows what they're doing and they're good with people, they can make a good film.

--------

"Outer Space: The Last Frontier.
These are the trips of the Star Trek Enterprise. Its five year plan calls for us to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly fly where no man has gone in space. Live long, and be happy."


Patrick Stewart--SNL, Stardate 9402.05


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  • RE: Fan/No Fan | Report this post to moderator
    By: Collin (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:54:48 on Nov 19, 2008

    Let's get one thing clear all you Star Trek Fans.....
    When the TOS movies were being made, Gene Roddenberry WAS STILL ALIVE !!! Any directors who were not fans (Nick Meyer, Robert Wise, etc.) had him there guiding / steering the projects (movies and subsequent series - TNG) along. With his passing, Star Trek as a whole became open season and everyone wanted to put in their half cents worth and tried to re-do Trek in some form or other...Witness how things have gone downhill since....
    I have been involved with Star Trek in some form or other since the beginning and this new movie, frankly, worries me...
    Just looking at the trailer gives me a LOOOOOOOONG PAUSE -- for one, the Enterprise built on Earth ??!?!?! We all know it was built in space. The bridge looks too Neon-y (too much Las Vegas influence -- did the SET designer spend a week-end there to get inspired ?!!?!??), Uhura getting undressed...(pandering to pubescent males to attract them to see the movie???!!) what in the seven levels of the different multiverses are they trying to do???!?? GREAT MAKER !!!!
    If this is a re-booting, then say so, don't go around saying you are a fan, then you are not a fan (you hear this, JJ ??) and make things look different....Look at what happened to DS-9,Voyager,and especially Enterprise -- all the attempts to make it "different", "fresh" "new" and not sticking to cannon (let me remind y'all about the Xindi story line on ENT. and what it did to the series...cancelled after four seasons (bad ratings)--new headwriter Manny Coto brought in to "fix" things...but by then the damage was allowed to go on too long and it got cancelled - just when it looked like it was FINALLY getting back on the right track....) Remember there are FORTY (40) years of established cannon -- you CANNOT IGNORE THAT FACT. AND having been intimately involved with Star Trek for the past 11 years, I can vouch for the passion and scrutiny that the real true fans have for Star Trek...THey will tear every detail apart...AND it is the fans from waaaay back that are going to get behind you or not. THIS IS NOT STAR WARS - DONT MAKE IT LOOK LIKE STAR WARS....
    It just royally pisses me off to have some suppossed hot shot try to (so - called) re-envision (or call it "re-imagining") something so established. JJ, your track record is not perfect..
    Mission Impossible 3 was NOT that big a success...SO THERE !!!! ANd as a final note, I am, quite frankly getting real sick & tired of the manipulative process (from Paramount) going on whereby there is all this secrecy and confidentiality crap going on and then, little morsels are tossed from the table to the salivating fans and the hype surrounding this whole thing....ENOUGH ALREADY !!!!!! Fans, WAKE UP !!! As Gene Roddenberry said at one convention, "Paramount considers you nothing more that open wallets." As a small example --at the now closed Star Trek Experience in Las Vegas, a simple T-shirt worth two or three dollars would be sold for sixteen bucks -- and many were fool enough to pay that amount-- just because it had something Star Trek printed on it...Oh, and the ticket price --$!0.00 when they opened and it zoomed up to $49.95 by the time they closed -- and they said it was an 'all day pass' (for two shows) - you could repeat and re-ride as many times as you wanted - and BTW, toward the end, they looked like they were running a skeleton staff on the ride/shows...all that money for half-staffed shows (I saw the same actors doing all the different roles) --in the beginning, there seemed to be hundreds of Starfleet officers running around the sets -- it looked real -- in the end there seemed to be only six or seven actors doing ALL the roles -- and I paid FULL PRIce for a half staffed show !!!! What a rip-off !!! The powers that be really couldn't care less about the integrity of the "franchise" or "the brand" (that's what it is called, folks!!! -- believe me, I DO Know I was on the inside...) or Gene's Vision of the Future. It's all about the money, people, and how much they can make you part with your hard earned dough...STOP LETTING YOURSELVES BE MANIPULATED !!!!
    SO, there !! my rant on this whole thing...consider it a reallity check, everyone....




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    • RE: Fan/No Fan | Report this post to moderator
      By: Kamen Rider Blade (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:57:35 on Nov 19, 2008

      Quote:
      rant deleted from this quote for the sake of rational people's sanity.
      SO, there !! my rant on this whole thing...consider it a reallity check, everyone....



      Reading your entire post, all I see is another whiny rant about trivial bullshit that nobody except for the most extreme of supergeeks even remotely cares about.
      OMG! Star Trek: The Experience was overpriced and understaffed?!?!?! That has what to do with the new movie?

      Quote:
      Mission Impossible 3 was NOT that big a success...SO THERE !!!!

      Way to stick it J.J. there, Skippy. Guess what...neither were most of the past Star Trek movies.

      Quote:
      Uhura getting undressed...
      Yeah...I mean, seriously, J.J. Don't you know girls have cooties?
      I've said it before, and I'll say it again...only to the extremist Trekkies is a beautiful woman showing some skin a bad thing.

      People like you are exactly why the world perceives us all as pathetic, basement-dwelling losers who can/will never get laid.





      --------

      "Oh relax, Cupcake. It was a joke."- James T. Kirk


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  • RE: Fan/No Fan | Report this post to moderator
    By: captainkoloth (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 09:55:01 on Nov 19, 2008

    This whole Fan/Non Fan thing is getting blown out of proportion. Who cares if Abrams is a Trekkie or not. There is enough fanboy material on the internet, good and bad. This is a movie for general audiences. The movies have never really been about exploring strange new worlds and seeking out new life and new civilizations (TMP, and maybe Insurrection, excluded). Star Trek movies only have a couple hours to tell a good story, so that shouldn't happen.

    Though, I always thought it would have been neat if they started out a ST movie with the Enterprise just ending an exploratory mission.

    --------

    There once was a man named Scorned,
    whose posts were more offensive than porn.
    He posted one too many,
    got kicked out on his fanny,
    and all the while he had been warned.


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    • RE: Fan/No Fan | Report this post to moderator
      By: The Real Dr McCoy (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:21:18 on Nov 19, 2008 | Edit History (3)

      "Who cares if Abrams is a Trekkie or not."

      Shatnerbaters and canonphiles apparently find the ingroup/outgroup framing not only appealing, but necessary for sustaining conflict and to inflate their importance to the franchise.

      Notice how many of their complaints cast themselves as the only true fans of trek and everyone who doesn't share their opinions as not? Notice how many of their complaints transpose their personal opinions onto Trek fandom as though they speak on behalf of it? Even the reviewer above does this several times in his little tirade. "Our house" hubris, indeed!

      It's much easier to cast Abrams as some sort of anti-Trek villian who is "offending" or "disrespecting" the "fans" (again, "fans" being only the individuals aboard the "Shatner or Boycott" / "Abrams lied" / "Trek 90210" / "OMIGODS THEY CHANGED THE NACELLES!!!! THIS MOVIE WILL BE A DISASTER!!" trains). It's also an excuse to castigate fellow fans who disagree with things like the above or who are open-minded enough to wait to make an informed decision about the movie as non-purists.

      The construct is really not all that different than calling fellow Americans who disagree with you over what America ought to be "anti-American". It's a transparent way to simply assume what America ought to be by blustering past the intellectual work of actually supporting it with a compelling argument.

      Rhetoric... ain't it grand?

      -The Doctor

      --------




      "That green-blooded Son of a Bitch... It's his revenge for all those arguments he lost to me!"
      - Bones


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      • RE: Fan/No Fan | Report this post to moderator
        By: SergeantOo (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:05:43 on Nov 20, 2008

        Well said.

        Some people want to believe that the social commentary that Star Trek fanboys think is behind the show can translate onto the big screen. IV and VI had a bit of that, but when you make an entire movie about social commentary, you get Insurrection.

        Think about it. Some of the worst parts of Trek were the ones that were moralistic: "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield," "Symbiosis," any DS9 Ferengi episode, any VOY episode about hologram rights, etc. And some of the best episodes featured action and adventure: "The Doomsday Machine," "The Best of Both Worlds," "Blood Oath," etc.

        Fanboys, there's nothing wrong with having action and explosions in Star Trek. Take it easy. So what if the Enterprise was built on Earth? Does it matter? By sweating these details, you become the ultimate loser. But if you have nothing better to do, knock yourself out. Memorize Star Trek dialogue, perfect your Vulcan salute, and continue ranting about nonsense. Don't worry, the world will survive without you.


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  • RE: Fan/No Fan | Report this post to moderator
    By: sb2004 (Odo's file, contact) @ 05:25:44 on Nov 19, 2008

    Quote:
    Is it a big deal if the director is a big fan of Star Trek?

    It's absolutely stupid that we have to consider "politics" with regards to Star Trek, but that's the way the fanbase has become. And has such to come out -- cute or no -- and say "I'm not a fan" is simply politically incorrect because the fanbase is gunshy about such sentiment, especially given the long-held belief that Rick Berman wasn't a Trek fan (or at least a TOS fan) and Berman is about as beloved as Hitler in these parts (whether justified or not).

    Also, while it's true Meyers wasn't much of a Trek fan and he gave use 2 brilliant Trek films as result, there have been plenty of cases where "non-fans" making film adaptations of TV shows or remakes have done botch jobs of it. I keep coming back to Jonathan Frakes' Thunderbirds as an example, as he made almost the exact same statement regarding that show when he took on the project.

    Plus there's already tension brewing over the redesigns and lack of visual continuity with the original series, which simply cannot be easily dismissed ... and that's also a problem with Abrams' approach as he claims it's not a re-imagining, yet we're seeing designs that are more advanced - for the Trek universe - than Voyager for heaven's sake.

    And there's still simmering anger (again, something I consider stupid to have to consider, but it's there) over Shatner not being involved.

    It all adds up to a circumstance where, even though Abrams must not cater to "us" with this film, given his mandate is to get Joe and Jane American to give a damn about Star Trek again rather than preach to the converted, he still needs to be a bit circumspect here and there. Otherwise I honestly could see some of the more insane Trekkies doing something inane like picketing the theatres or being really vocal in opposition about this film ... things that would basically cause Abrams' mandate to fail because given the choice between dealing with some fat guy in a TOS uniform and going to see, I dunno, WATCHMEN, they'll take the latter.

    I sound really pessimistic here, and if it were just me making such predictions, I'd just say I'm looking at worst-case scenarios. But I'm not the only one making these predictions and have.

    Al


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  • RE: Fan/No Fan | Report this post to moderator
    By: GustavoLeao (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 05:11:59 on Nov 19, 2008

    Well, while I agree that people like Nicholas Meyer and Harve Bennett were also no fans of Star Trek and did wonderful movies, the fact is that in almost every interview he gave in the past weeks, Mr Abrams has said "I am not a Star Trek fan, I am a Star Wars fan" and so forth.

    I agree with the UGO reviewer that this is becoming annoying. Mr Abrams need to change his speech.

    Having said that, I am still a LOT optmistic about this movie !

    Gustavo

    --------

    TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor

    gl2000@uol.com.br


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    • RE: Fan/No Fan | Report this post to moderator
      By: OV-101 (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:31:23 on Nov 19, 2008

      Correct. Also, JJ said he was not a "HUGE" fan of ST. He did not say he not a fan at all. He has said in the past that he has watched the show and enjoyed it but that was about it. Well, that is just fine with me. I'd rather not have a trekker making this movie. After reading the negative posts about canon, etc., at many of the other posting sites (not all here in Tweb, I fell even stronger about it.

      I think JJ will break the crappy stuff that B&B have been shoveling out at the very least. In order to appreciate the movie, you have to remember where we were and how low and lean times were.

      --------

      "Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."
      -- John Wayne

      "Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence."
      --Dr. Leonard McCoy

      "I'm a politician, which means I am a cheat and a liar, and when I am not kissing babies I am stealing their lollipops."
      -- Jeffrey Pelt, The Hunt for Red October

      "Liberals, Intellectuals, Peacemongers, IDIOTS!!!!"
      - General Decker, Mars Attacks

      "It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires, both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
      - Q from Q Who


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  • RE: Fan/No Fan | Report this post to moderator
    By: etsjedi (Odo's file, contact) @ 04:54:00 on Nov 19, 2008

    Actually Star Trek Wrath of Khan producer Harve Bennet was not a fan or a veiwer. When he was asked to bring Star Trek back to tv he watched all of the episodes and chosed Space Seed as a good starting up again spot. It was only after the studio saw how good it was that they made it a feature.
    But to get to a cocky attitude-what do you want? Do you want him to say "well-here it is-if you like ok-if you don't oh well"?
    You have to sell a product-you have to behind it all the way!
    That is what gets you people to back you.
    And never base your critiques on something YOU HAVE NOT SEEN IN IT'S ENTIRITY!


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    • RE: Fan/No Fan | Report this post to moderator
      By: captainkoloth (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 10:08:48 on Nov 19, 2008

      Quote:
      Actually Star Trek Wrath of Khan producer Harve Bennet was not a fan or a veiwer. When he was asked to bring Star Trek back to tv he watched all of the episodes and chosed Space Seed as a good starting up again spot. It was only after the studio saw how good it was that they made it a feature.
      But to get to a cocky attitude-what do you want? Do you want him to say "well-here it is-if you like ok-if you don't oh well"?
      You have to sell a product-you have to behind it all the way!
      That is what gets you people to back you.
      And never base your critiques on something YOU HAVE NOT SEEN IN IT'S ENTIRITY!


      Really? I thought Star Trek II was always supposed to be a feature. I remember in the STII DVD mini documentaries that the script really wasn't in proper shape until Nick Meyer came in and made some significant revisions - revisions that he never got official credit for.

      --------

      There once was a man named Scorned,
      whose posts were more offensive than porn.
      He posted one too many,
      got kicked out on his fanny,
      and all the while he had been warned.


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