The Lost Tales was excellent. I was hoping for more.
You don't need a big budget to tall good, solid stories. Just look at Lost Tales!
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"You don't need a big budget to tall good, solid stories. Just look at Lost Tales!"
I'd rather not (though I respect your opinion). Demon possession? A focus on Lochley instead of a character who actually matters? Ugh--terrible, in my opinion.
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Rich Handley
Author, Timeline of the Planet of the Apes: The Definitive Chronology
Available now from Hasslein Books
www.hassleinbooks.com
B5 died at the end of season 4. or maybe s.3. Crusade went nowhere. Lost Tales deserved to be lost. The LotR acronym still belongs in Tolkien territory. One trick pony, dude.
Yeah, but I think erasing the Peter/MJ marriage and 20 years of Spider-Man continuity was a mistake. If Joe Quesada didnt like the marriage, why he didnt simply divorce them or even kill MJ ? Erasing the continuity was a mistake in my opinion. The current reboot storyline, "Brand New Day", has been awful !
Gustavo
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TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
gl2000@uol.com.br
Well, okay, I see your point - and lets not forget that he wrote the "One More Day" fiasco, the storyline that ruined the Spider-Man comics franchise for a lot of fans.
Gustavo
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TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
gl2000@uol.com.br
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Quote:
Well, okay, I see your point - and lets not forget that he wrote the "One More Day" fiasco, the storyline that ruined the Spider-Man comics franchise for a lot of fans.
Gustavo
I don't know that you can hold OMD against JMS. He cowrote it with Quesada, and disagreed with the story so much that he told Quesada he wanted his own name off the last two issues.
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"It's fiction. It's not supposed to make sense." --a Trekweb poster defending Brannon Braga's scripts
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re: "One More Day" - It may have indeed ruined the franchise for some. In other ways, Spider-Man has been overdue for a reboot. It's one of the many reasons I enjoy the Ultimates line. It's a chance to revisit the characters in a different context, make enhancements and embolden the characters with new vitality. My opinion, anyways.
At least it wasn't the Clone Wars disaster... :)
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re: "One More Day" - It may have indeed ruined the franchise for some. In other ways, Spider-Man has been overdue for a reboot. It's one of the many reasons I enjoy the Ultimates line. It's a chance to revisit the characters in a different context, make enhancements and embolden the characters with new vitality. My opinion, anyways.
At least it wasn't the Clone Wars disaster... :)
Everytime this sort of thing has happened, JMS has always spun it the same way: "I'm taking the high road. I could go on doing (insert project here) by THEIR rules, but that cheapens my legacy, so I'm going to walk away." Joe - you can fool some of the people all the time, but it's become a joke at this point. TLT looked like crap. The stories were weak. You thought you could make a comfortable piece of change on a DVD-only franchise and people didn't buy. The brass said "no more" and now once again you're spinning it. Do you think we're all rubes, Joe?
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I think that's a valid point--JMS does like to spin things so that the failings of B5 are everyone but his, and though I'm a major fan of his work, the truth is, he DID write Legend of the Rangers and The Lost Tales, and even had the budgets on those been bigger, it's ultimately the very weak stories, flawed premises and uninteresting characters that sank both of those outings.
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Rich Handley
Author, Timeline of the Planet of the Apes: The Definitive Chronology
Available now from Hasslein Books
www.hassleinbooks.com
Not gonna happen.
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"I would be happy for Star Trek to come along decades later with a new group of minds. I'd love someone to say, 'Besides this one, Gene Roddenberry's was nothing!'" - Gene Roddenberry
"...I think it would be wonderful years from now to see Star Trek come back with an equally talented new cast playing Spock and Kirk and Bones and Scotty and all the rest, as they say tomorrow's things to tomorrow's generations..." - Gene Roddenberry
The straight to DVD film was great for only 2 million...okay, the second story was, at least.
Can't say I blame him. This is the final nail in the coffin of B5, which isn't bad, since the series really stands up. I would have loved to see more, but if not, that's fine.
...although if he were to do comics. Joss is doing Buffy really well. I'd love to see Bab 5 return to four colors...
After seeing TLT, I got the distinct impression that WB had given JMS a shoestring of a budget to work with. While I was glad that he had a forum to continue telling those stories, I was also really disappointed at how modest and insignificant the whole thing was.
I'm happy that he's seen the light and that he understands that these poor one-off stories really lessen the quality of the overall arc rather than enrich it. I have no faith that WB would ever greenlight a B5 movie however and I wouldn't be suprised if this is the last we see of the show in terms of live action content.
Personally, I wish JMS had taken that $2 million given to him for TLT and used it to do a story that brought Crusade to some sort of coherent conclusion. Leaving that series hanging after 13 episodes was probably the biggest tragedy of the B5 universe (and yes, I am familiar with the whole TNT fiasco).
Good, because The Lost Tales was a horrible presentation. It felt like watching one of the Trek fan made episodes with digital background all the way through. I did not know that the budget for them was only $2 millions. Wow.
I think if WB wanted to do B5 right they should put some investment in it or allow JMS to bring it to another studio or independently self finance it himself like Serenity did.
I'll wait for B5 comics now that JMS is at DC working for them.
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It's good to hear that from him. Even if it means to never see anything of B5 again, I'm pleased to hear this. Rangers and TLT only harmed the B5 Universe. It's hard to admid that as a fan, but it's true.
I would hate it to watch such halfhearted B5-stories on DVD again.
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living in darkness / sleeping in light
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It was painfully obvious to me that JMS had nothing new to say (and very little to say to begin with that hadn't already been said in TOS's "Who Mourns for Adonais?" In TLT, he just did a retread with a "demon" instead of a "shadow" who fights angels/Vorlons.
His inabilty to write realistic characters and dialogue made for a bad show and he seems to have SUUUCH a huge ego....like "beg me to make a movie or I won't do anything." Those DVDs were a gift to him and I imagine they didn't pull in enough money to pay for the production. And he blames that on the studio, I'm sure. He should've done what Roddenberry did---create arcs and worlds and let good writers develop the characters and individual episodes. In other words, produce not write.
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Click here to check out my band, ego tree , and the Ego Tree site at myspace. Listen to/buy the CD for $9.99! ALSO AVAILABLE ON iTUNES!!
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I do agree with your comment on JMS' ego. It does seem larger than the franchise, does it not? Having said that, it took me a long time to get into B5 but when I did I really enjoyed it. There were some great gems in the story arc and too bad it did not wrap up the way it was supposed to. In order for me to get into the stories I had to watch it in reruns on Scifi several years ago. Once I realized the tie-ins between all the episodes I began to really appreciate the show. The series obviously waned in quality at the end and in the follow-on work. Still, it did have a unique charm to it and I have always like Bruce B. To tie into your comments, I think the show went to JMS' head and it really killed the show, IMHO.
One question, I guess I am not getting the connection you made to TOS' Who Mourns for Adonais? I realize I am slow to pick up things, sorry :)
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"Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."
-- John Wayne
"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence."
--Dr. Leonard McCoy
"I'm a politician, which means I am a cheat and a liar, and when I am not kissing babies I am stealing their lollipops."
-- Jeffrey Pelt, The Hunt for Red October
"Liberals, Intellectuals, Peacemongers, IDIOTS!!!!"
- General Decker, Mars Attacks
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires, both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
- Q from Q Who
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Quote:
One question, I guess I am not getting the connection you made to TOS' Who Mourns for Adonais? I realize I am slow to pick up things, sorry :)
B5 SPOILER ALERT:
Well, in my opinion, the whole 4 years arc and was basically about finding out the Vorlons had appeared as angels on all of the worlds and they preach and instill ORDER. The shadows are like demons and they promote CHAOS. All Sheridan had to say was, "we've outgrown you! Go away!" And....they DID. It was a lot of buildup for nothing. Same think Kirk did in Who Mourns, except that worship was the source of Adonis's powers (along with the machine) and I felt that script was more poingnant (why can't we just love the Greek god; he and his ilk gave us so much). I found it silly that the Vorlons and Shadows actually left. I bet PLENTY of people would've been willing to worship the Vorlons AND the Shadows. Also, for people who urge order, the Vorlons weren't very into discipline. Sheesh. They just said, "you're right. We'll go." Not even HUMANS would do that, much less an advanced race like Vorlons. The plot was the same as Adonis---we told the gods we'd outgrown them and the myths they'd instilled and the need for a god-figure and we told them to piss off and they did.
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Click here to check out my band, ego tree , and the Ego Tree site at myspace. Listen to/buy the CD for $9.99! ALSO AVAILABLE ON iTUNES!!
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I dunno. I love the Babylon 5 universe and even liked Crusade and the Lost Tales DVD. Go figure. I was open to more DVD movies, but I doubt that a feature film is gonna happen. Rest in peace, Babylon 5.
Gustavo
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TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
gl2000@uol.com.br
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B5 is one of my favorite series of all time. The writing was fantastic--much better than anything Roddenberry wrote, in my opinion. (Before I get flamed--I'm a rabid Trek fan and mean no disrespect to Trek or Roddenberry when I say that. I just feel JMS is a much better writer than Roddernberty was.) I enjoyed Crusade, though it definitely had its problems. Legends of the Rangers and The Lost Tales, however....ugh. Absolute drek, and I'm relieved to hear we won't have any more dilution of that once-great universe.
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Rich Handley
Author, Timeline of the Planet of the Apes: The Definitive Chronology
Available now from Hasslein Books
www.hassleinbooks.com
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I totally agree. I loved the stories and I found them very intellectual. It certainly was a great series and I just wish it had ended the way it was meant to end. I remember the last two season the show was on and off again, hence, the rushed ending to the Shadow war. That was not JMS's fault. I think you make a valid point about JMS being a better writer than Roddenberry but you have to realize that Gene was really breaking the mold back the 60's and did the best he could for that time. So, we are comparing two writers in two different time frames and its hard, IMHO, to say who was better than the other. I do say they are both better than George Lucas. George had some wonderful ideas (the original Star Wars and Indiana Jones were great) then rode on them for way too long and it became stale, IMO.
I never really got into Crusades much but I did like Legends of the Rangers. Still have not seen Lost Tales.
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"Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."
-- John Wayne
"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence."
--Dr. Leonard McCoy
"I'm a politician, which means I am a cheat and a liar, and when I am not kissing babies I am stealing their lollipops."
-- Jeffrey Pelt, The Hunt for Red October
"Liberals, Intellectuals, Peacemongers, IDIOTS!!!!"
- General Decker, Mars Attacks
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires, both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
- Q from Q Who
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