I love wine. | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:57:35 on Jul 02, 2008

Quote:
Good luck to you and your camera-club colleagues

Why thank you! Don't expect an invite to our Oscar party though... unless you bring expensive booze, then all is forgiven.

-- steve

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-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

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Zombie Confusion | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:23:52 on Jul 02, 2008

Quote from cdydatzigs:
...throwing out meaningless quotes and referencing the producers saying this and that. But the joke is on you.


Shucks, all the "quotes and referencing the producers" -- who know exactly what can and can't be done with their movie -- must be a terrible inconvenience to your zombie monologues.

Good luck to you and your camera-club colleagues, and with your allergy to commonsense and dictionaries.

;-)


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. | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:01:47 on Jul 02, 2008 | (1)

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By posing as a professional filmmaker, you raise the bar on what others expect from you. The irony is that you fail to display any corresponding comprehension skills, particularly toward sci-fi storytelling.

For one thing, I am a filmmaker. I never said I was Stanley Kubrick.. at least not yet. But I am posing as nothing, I am exactly what I say.

Second, every one of my film coleagues whom I have discussed this lame topic with, has agreed with me to a letter:

If the film is in post-production and Shatner has not filmed a second of footage yet? Then it is not going to happen. You can keep replying, beating your chest, throwing out meaningless quotes and referencing the producers saying this and that. But the joke is on you. Always has been and always will be. You're a dumb fuck and an ass hole.

-- Steve

--------

-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

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Zombie Poser | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:09:13 on Jul 02, 2008

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..and that includes the fact that J.J. Abrams is NOT going to introduce a new character and scene that has NOTHING to do with the plot of a film, in post-production.


The common baseline for everyday competence is independent of any entertainment product, yet you respond with another bullshit non sequitur.

Wake up.

The entire writer/producer team got onstage to announce their desperate desire. Abrams, Orci, Lindelof, and Leopold have independently pointed a finger at "I don't do cameos" Shatner.

Every time Orci is asked about this, his "maybe" answer holds the door open. Not even the WGA strike or the end of principal photography changed his assessment of this matter. Orci sees cause to not give closure to the once Shatner-blessed cameo.

Yet your zombie-brain monologue harps on and on about "a desperate minority of the Star Trek fan base."

By posing as a professional filmmaker, you raise the bar on what others expect from you. The irony is that you fail to display any corresponding comprehension skills, particularly toward sci-fi storytelling.


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Trexx is showing he is a fossil... | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:16:22 on Jul 02, 2008

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Regardless of vocation, there's a baseline of common knowledge that's acquired by every competent adult.

..and that includes the fact that J.J. Abrams is NOT going to introduce a new character and scene that has NOTHING to do with the plot of a film, in post-production. That is the point I have been trying to drive into your thick skull all this time.

You are wrong. Your dream of Shatner being in this film is hapless and unrealistic. You can continue to pretend that I am not a filmmaker based on a sentence I typed that you did not get, but in May of 2009 -- I will have the last laugh. I guarantee it!

-- Steve

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-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

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Hangin' Yourself High | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:25:45 on Jul 02, 2008

Quote from cdydatzigs:
You are nitpicking a lack of clarification in a sad attempt to discredit me.


Your incoherent reasoning has discredited itself, in every argument you've made.

Regardless of vocation, there's a baseline of common knowledge that's acquired by every competent adult, certainly those with experience in a real-world business or people-oriented profession.

A combo of uncommon stupor and aggressive BS is the rope with which you hang yourself, higher and higher.


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. | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:52:55 on Jul 02, 2008

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You pulled that nonsense out of your ass after you got busted for arguing that post-production is "not shooting anything live-action anymore".

You are nitpicking a lack of clarification in a sad attempt to discredit me. LOL, nice try! This whole thread is about William Shatner. Your wet dream, remember?

I was trying to convey to you that once they were in post-production mode, that there were not going to be filming William Shatner in the flesh. If you could not gather that, the you are the biggest retard I have ever known. Rather than giving us a real reason why he should be in it, you are trying to scour my posts looking for syntax slips.

It's no wonder your "wife" cheats on you.

-- Steve

--------

-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

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BS BUSTED | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:30:57 on Jul 02, 2008

Quote from cdydatzigs:
For the THIRD time, post-production may include live-action shooting of existing locations and scenes, but does not include INTRODUCTIONS OF NEW CHARACTERS AND ACTORS.


You pulled that nonsense out of your ass after you got busted for arguing that post-production is "not shooting ANYTHING live-action ANYMORE". Your new bullshit only compounds the deception exposed by your old bullshit.

So far, you haven't been able to sustain any dialog that involves adult experience or intuition.

Why not pretend to be a child prodigy of some sort, i.e. something that isn't so readily invalidated during a discussion of sci-fi entertainment?


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[sigh] | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:59:12 on Jul 02, 2008

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Legitimate filmmakers don't argue that post-production means "not shooting anything live-action anymore". Reshoots and pick-ups aren't uncommon.

For the THIRD time, post-production may include live-action shooting of existing locations and scenes, but does not include INTRODUCTIONS OF NEW CHARACTERS AND ACTORS. Which is exactly what your sad, desperate ass is praying will happen.

If you spent more time learning the industry and less time trying desperately to come off as "educated" and "well-read" on a Star Trek website, you wouldn't be making a fool out of yourself so much.

-- Steve

--------

-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

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Delusion 001 | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:29:57 on Jul 02, 2008

Quote from cdydatzigs:
I know what my credentials are. Most grown-ups don't consistently take things to a personal, childish level like you do when we are discussing a movie.


Legitimate filmmakers don't argue that post-production means "not shooting anything live-action anymore". Reshoots and pick-ups aren't uncommon.

You're welcome to your Walter Mitty dreams, but you don't have the knowledge or wit to succeed with the deception you've chosen here. You'd have more credibility claiming to be an extraterrestrial, which would at least account for your lack of knowledge about life on Earth.


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Dead dinosaur. | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:38:58 on Jul 02, 2008

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The ongoing joke here is your attempt to pass as a competent professional, when you can't quite muster a normal grown-up.

I know what my credentials are. Most grown-ups don't consistently take things to a personal, childish level like you do when we are discussing a movie. All because my opinion on matters differs from yours. Real mature.

Quote:
Not only do you argue in ignorance of publicized statements by Shatner and Team Abrams...

Argue in ignorance? No, I just know that these are actors and producers, and nothing they tell nerdy Sci-Fi interviewers is under oath. To be 100% honest, YOU are making far more out of sparse quotes solely because you are desperate to see this 77 year old man strap on the uniform one more time. It is sad!

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you had to be told that fictional events and characters follow their writer's will!

I know this you dumb f*ck, but you're failing (as usual) to see that the writers are NOT GOING TO WRITE SHATNER INTO THIS MOVIE. You are in complete denial and insist that the writers have some big surprise waiting for us! TRexx, you are Geraldo Rivera... and this movie is your Capone's vault. You are going to be embarassed and there is no amount of Thesaurus-raping that is going to make you look good after May of 2009.

Quote:
Are you a child, or just dirt stupid?

I recently turned 30.. and I have been involved with film for almost 7 years already, so I may be a child when compared to you.. but I am far from stupid ;)

-- Steve

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-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

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Oblivion 101 | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:24:20 on Jul 01, 2008 | (1)

Quote from cdydatzigs:
Hehe, I mean... it's almost a joke to even suggest that would ever happen!


The ongoing joke here is your attempt to pass as a competent professional, when you can't quite muster a normal grown-up.

Not only do you argue in ignorance of publicized statements by Shatner and Team Abrams, you repeatedly fail to comprehend even the common and basic things in everyday adult life. In this thread alone you had no clue of the politics around big money, and you had to be told that fictional events and characters follow their writer's will!

Are you a child, or just dirt stupid?


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• RE: | Report this post to moderator
  By: rassmguy (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:57:10 on Jul 02, 2008

  T'Rex, you just accused someone of not being a grown-up, in the same post in which you called him names. Do you not see the irony of that?
  
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  • Stupid Is As Stupid Does | Report this post to moderator
    By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:39:22 on Jul 02, 2008

    Quote from rassmguy:
    T'Rex, you just accused someone of not being a grown-up, in the same post in which you called him names.
    
    
    Profound lack of common knowledge is the domain of children and stupid adults.
    
    
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Awww, he wants Shatner in the movie so badly! :) | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:03:08 on Jul 01, 2008

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In reality, post-production includes live-action reshoots and/or pick-ups. Do I need to tell you that shooting new footage during post-production is a film "pick-up"?

New footage yes... but not new characters. Pickup footage is usually nothing more than establishing shots, transition shots, B unit footage and every so often - reshooting various angles of existing scenes. All of which can happen during the post-production process, yes.

But you are talking about the hiring of a new actor and shooting brand-new scenes during the post-production process -- especially for a character such as elder-Kirk who is irellevant to the existing plot of the actual film? Hehe, I mean... it's almost a joke to even suggest that would ever happen! Again, a scenario more the product of a desperate minority of the Star Trek fan base than anything based on a real feature production.

-- Steve


--------

-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

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Bill's right... | Report this post to moderator
By: Captain's Blog (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:07:53 on Jul 01, 2008

MI3 was a great movie.


--------

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"...I think it would be wonderful years from now to see Star Trek come back with an equally talented new cast playing Spock and Kirk and Bones and Scotty and all the rest, as they say tomorrow's things to tomorrow's generations..." - Gene Roddenberry

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Lost in Space | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:56:05 on Jun 30, 2008 | (1)

Quote from cdydatzigs:
Why not say, "they could not afford to pay me."


Shatner did make an issue of his salary, which was the basis for months of "It's bad business!" self-promotion.

Where have you been for the past year?


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• RE: Lost in Space | Report this post to moderator
  By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:26:17 on Jun 30, 2008 | (1)

  He made and issue of his salary granted, but it seems that the majority of his comments have been regarding how "disappointed" and even more strangely "puzzled" he was that he was not in the film.
  
  This is part of the reason why I may be confused here... if he knows he is too expensive for a small cameo role in the film, then why does he consistently tell us he is disappointed and puzzled as to why he is not in it?
  
  If what you are saying is all true.. then all Shatner has to do is take a pay cut and he is in the film! It makes you wonder then what's more important to him -- the money (which he doesn't need) or the legacy of his character...
  
  -- Steve
  
  
  
  --------
  
  -- Steve
  "If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

  
  

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  • RE: Lost in Space | Report this post to moderator
    By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:24:48 on Jun 30, 2008

    Quote from cdydatzigs:
    It makes you wonder then what's more important to him -- the money (which he doesn't need) or the legacy of his character...
    
    
    Overt money-talk can be seen as too mercenary, which could backfire for both sides: Some fans will believe Shatner is too greedy toward his character; some fans will believe Paramount is too miserly toward the franchise. Fans on both sides could resent the focus on commerce instead of labor-of-love Star Trek.
    
    In a cold-war (political) scenario, propaganda is used in hope of causing citizens (fans) to rally against a perceived injustice.
    
    So, for the public, both sides aim to put the ball of blame into the other's court. Shatner asked fans to write letters to JJ, and he expresses disappointment and puzzlement. At the same time, ST:XI production manager Stratton Leopold tells the press, "Studio executives still hope to convince William Shatner to suit up as Captain Kirk one more time"; and producer Damon Lindelof says, "Obviously it would be huge if Mr. Shatner wanted to be any part of the franchise."
    
    This appears mutually dysfunctional, as neither side tells a complete truth or lie.
    
    
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    • RE: Lost in Space | Report this post to moderator
      By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:38:56 on Jun 30, 2008

      Quote:
      This appears mutually dysfunctional, as neither side tells a complete truth or lie.
      
      I agree with you there. I have to say, I don't envy J.J. Abrams.. nor do I feel he has done anything malitious. He decided to cast Nimoy in his film, which is perfectly acceptable.. but in doing so he opened up a huge can of worms because now all of a sudden, a percentage of the fan base saw this as an open door to revive their old hero. Had this film been strictly 2263-ish then the Shatner subject would never have come up. Nimoy was the spark.
      
      Being given the reigns to such a huge franchise, being able to make the movie he wants, yet having to face and cater to the enourmous critical fan base? It's a tough ride to say the least, no wonder he has been mum and secretive. If this film scores big at the box office, these lengthy threads will be all but forgotten. I dont think the latest season of Lost will though....
      
      -- Steve
      
      --------
      
      -- Steve
      "If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

      
      

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      • RE: Lost in Space | Report this post to moderator
        By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:24:59 on Jul 01, 2008

        Quote from cdydatzigs:
        ... now all of a sudden, a percentage of the fan base saw this as an open door to revive their old hero.
        
        
        A percentage of the fanbase don't realize that Abrams himself believes the old hero should be revived, and his team hold the door open.
        
        On the CBS Late Late Show in 2006, Shatner spoke about a meeting he had with Abrams: "I met with him, and he wants me to be in the movie."
        
        That was happening, according to Orci, until Shatner required a larger role than their Spock-centric story could sustain. The latest word is that elder Kirk could still be included, presumably in the once Shatner-blessed cameo.
        
        
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        • RE: Lost in Space | Report this post to moderator
          By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:29:44 on Jul 01, 2008

          From my personal knowledge of making and producing films, if Star Trek is in post right now and Shatner hasn't been involved to date? Then we can say with confidence that he will not appear on screen because the sets have been packed away to make room for other productions. This means that if he is to have any involvement now, it would be as a voiceover - which could still be included this late in the game.
          
          I personally don't think Abrams had any intention of trying to "fix" Kirk's death in his film, just to include the Shat. That was a fan dream, not this filmmaker's -- in my opinion. But if what you say is correct and J.J. genuinely wanted him in it somehow? I think the voiceover or narration would be his compromise for the fans.
          Now we just have to see what Shatner says. I guarantee if J.J. calls and says, "Hey Bill, I was wondering if you would be willing to provide a voiceover epilogue for my picture?" not only would Shatner tell people, but he would also admit if he accepted the offer or turned it down. It would be no secret.
          
          -- Steve
          
          --------
          
          -- Steve
          "If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

          
          

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          • RE: Lost in Space | Report this post to moderator
            By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:12:13 on Jul 01, 2008

            Quote from cdydatzigs:
            Then we can say with confidence that he will not appear on screen because the sets have been packed away to make room for other productions.
            
            
            Competent filmmakers who are familiar with the Star Trek characters will know that a segue for elder Kirk need not involve any futuristic sets. To the contrary, the scene is likely a cozy farmhouse with horses -- much as we see in GEN -- as that is Kirk's known preference for retirement.
            
            That Kirk-Spock affection footage can be shot at an existing rural location.
            
            
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            • RE: Lost in Space | Report this post to moderator
              By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:19:23 on Jul 01, 2008 | (1)

              Quote:
              Competent filmmakers who are familiar with the Star Trek characters will know that a segue for elder Kirk need not involve any futuristic sets.
              
              We would indeed, but I believe my point was that if the movie is officially in post-production ("post" meaning "after") then they are not shooting anything live-action anymore.. whether it be on a set or in a barn.
              
              At this point the film is doing things like audio dubbing, foley and CGI work. If Shatner had been asked to do a voiceover, he would have told someone by now -- so time is running out. If we don't hear anything by summer's end, I think we can safely say that William Shatner had no role in Star Trek.
              
              -- Steve
              
              --------
              
              -- Steve
              "If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

              
              

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              • RE: Lost in Space | Report this post to moderator
                By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:23:38 on Jul 01, 2008

                Quote from cdydatzigs:
                ...if the movie is officially in post-production ("post" meaning "after") then they are not shooting anything live-action anymore..
                
                
                In real-world moviemaking, post-production includes reshoots and/or pick-ups (which may also be done after the film preview).
                
                Shatner can revise his cameo kibosh, join ST:XI, and collude in an Abrams' viral PR campaign designed for surprise come May 2009.
                
                
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                • RE: Lost in Space | Report this post to moderator
                  By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:31:24 on Jul 01, 2008

                  Quote:
                  In real-world moviemaking, post-production includes reshoots and/or pick-ups...
                  
                  In real-world moviemaking, reshoots ("re" meaning "again") are saved for actors who were filmed on screen during the actual production to begin with.
                  
                  Quote:
                  Shatner can revise his cameo kibosh, join ST:XI, and collude in an Abrams' viral PR campaign designed for surprise come May 2009.
                  
                  Gosh, how badly do you want him in this thing?
                  
                  -- Steve
                  
                  --------
                  
                  -- Steve
                  "If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

                  
                  

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                  • RE: Lost in Space | Report this post to moderator
                    By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:27:16 on Jul 01, 2008 | (1)

                    Quote from cdydatzigs:
                    ...reshoots...
                    
                    
                    Again, you're unable to follow a normal dialog.
                    
                    You assert that post-production means "not shooting anything live-action anymore". In reality, post-production includes live-action reshoots and/or pick-ups. Is this too much information for you to process? Do I need to tell you that shooting new footage during post-production is a film "pick-up"?
                    
                    Here's more reality to which you appear oblivious: Shatner is free to revise his cameo policy, and JJ Abrams has a reputation of coy marketing PR.
                    
                    Perhaps this is just a time of day when you raid your parents' liquor supply.
                    
                    
                    --------
                    
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Underpaid? | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:17:21 on Jun 30, 2008

Quote:
Team Abrams have already found a way to restore elder Kirk, and that door is held open.

If that is true and it is only "Shatner willing to work for less" that we are waiting for, then I am confused. In interviews, Shatner has been saying "I think it will be a great film but I am disappointed that I am not in it." Why is he disappointed? He turned down this alleged role because of the money - why not admit it? Why not say, "they could not afford to pay me." If this is really about righting a "wrong", I would think that he would take what pay he could to sign on and unkill his elder-self..... assuming what you are saying is even true and that there is an "open door".

-- Steve

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-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

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Reality Bites | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:04:43 on Jun 30, 2008

Quote from cdydatzigs:
First, it is not J.J.'s responsibility to "correct the wrongs of Generations" and unkill elder-Kirk. Second, Spock is not going to risk altering the timeline, perhaps even his own existence, to 'warn' young Kirk about his demise.


Don't mistake fiction for reality.

In fiction, events and characters follow the will of the writers. They use sci-fi hocus-pocus whenever the plot needs a nudge, and time travel is a fave that isn't "undesirable" unless the writers make it so. The Kirk-Spock romance precedent has been set: "You would have done the same for me -- because the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many."

In the real world, in November 2006, Shatner said he and Abrams spoke about restoring elder Kirk. Orci claims that their story had received Shatner's "blessing", and that the situation fell apart only later when Shat wanted more than a cameo role for his character.

Team Abrams have already found a way to restore elder Kirk, and that door is held open.


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Spock wouldn't mess with history.. | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:03:33 on Jun 30, 2008

Quote:
It's apparent that you're (again) unable to follow whatever dialog is posted here.

Incorrect. It is just that I read your previous dialog and (again) completely disagreed with its reasoning and therefore ignored the fact it was even mentioned.

Quote:
A warning from elder Spock to young Kirk will simultaneously inform the audience of foreknowledge that allows the Kirk legend to change the outcome of those future events -- so he was never killed during those events.

First, it is not J.J.'s responsibility to "correct the wrongs of Generations" and unkill elder-Kirk. Second, Spock is not going to risk altering the timeline, perhaps even his own existence, to 'warn' young Kirk about his demise. Imagine the repercussions if he told him about his fate this early in Kirk's career? Lord knows how the universe would have been different -- especially considering how many times he "saved the galaxy" in the coming years. Do you really think Spock would be stupid enough to risk changing that!? My point is, if you think Spock would grossly jeapordize the future of the galaxy by warning it's biggest hero of his demise 30 years later (assuming he even knows Kirk died in the 24th century)? Then you have a very low opinion of Spock.

-- Steve

--------

-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

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Second Verse, Same as the First | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:06:17 on Jun 29, 2008

Quote from cdydatzigs:
You would need far more to explain why elder Kirk was there, 14 years after he was killed...


It's apparent that you're (again) unable to follow whatever dialog is posted here.

A warning from elder Spock to young Kirk will simultaneously inform the audience of foreknowledge that allows the Kirk legend to change the outcome of those future events -- so he was never killed during those events.


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• RE: Second Verse, Same as the First | Report this post to moderator
  By: Gothampunk (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:10:29 on Jul 01, 2008

  Of course it would be nice, with this movie, if the future history of Star Trek was brought into line with contemporary history. The original future history was a projection from 1965 and is clearly not ours.
  
  So whatever screwing around with time takes place in STXI, Khan and the eugenics wars did not happen,; thus all events fron ST II through 7 could be called into question.
  
  So I'm crediting Spock with saving us from the Eugenics Wars.

  
  

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  • RE: Second Verse, Same as the First | Report this post to moderator
    By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:00:39 on Jul 01, 2008 | (1)

    Quote from Gothampunk:
    So whatever screwing around with time takes place in STXI...
    
    
    Needless to say, no change in timeline is required just to allow young Kirk to live his TOS legacy.
    
    Neither is an alternate timeline necessary to revive elder Kirk, because no post-GEN movie/TV story relies upon his non-existence. Kirk's subsequent adventures are yet untold.
    
    It's GEN that tells a tale of alternate reality. ;-)
    
    
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• RE: | Report this post to moderator
  By: rassmguy (Odo's file, contact) @ 05:03:49 on Jun 30, 2008

  I don't think censoring StillKirk or telling him to leave is the way to go. Am I bored by his predictable, one-schtick, army-of-one rhetoric? Yep--as bored as most others are. But he DOES have a right to say it, and I would defend that right just as quickly as I would debate him on his points. People are often too quick to tell others to leave if they won't play ball nice, and it's far too dangerous a precedent to set. StillKirk is harmless, if transparent, and if the film is good, then his brand of negativity will fizzle out just like those who used to claim Daniel Craig and Casino Royale would tank the Bond franchise. That movement is now just a minor footnote, and no one takes it seriously. The real test here is the film itself: If it's no good, then StillKirk and the few others in his camp will be proven right. But if it does turn out to be a great film, then the whole "Shatner must be in it or the film will be hurt" crowd will be forgotten, just as danielcraigisnotbond.com has been. Personally, I'm starting to think StillKirk IS William Shatner...but that's the subject of another post entirely.
  
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  • RE: | Report this post to moderator
    By: rassmguy (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:23:21 on Jun 30, 2008

    "So you are saying that if Star Trek does not do well, that it MUST be because Shatner was not in it?"
    
    Nope.
    
    
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    Author, Timeline of the Planet of the Apes: The Definitive Chronology
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    • RE: | Report this post to moderator
      By: rassmguy (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:26:05 on Jun 30, 2008

      And besides, we all know StillKirk will be there in the theater. It's absurd to think he won't go see the film, regardless of what he says.
      
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      Author, Timeline of the Planet of the Apes: The Definitive Chronology
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      www.hassleinbooks.com
      

      
      

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  • RE: | Report this post to moderator
    By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:53:31 on Jun 30, 2008

    Quote:
    If it's no good, then StillKirk and the few others in his camp will be proven right.
    
    So you are saying that if Star Trek does not do well, that it MUST be because Shatner was not in it? I think that is a vastly incorrect thought. If the movie fails it will mean that the drop off in audience that started in the late-90's is worse than we thought and even the loyal fanbase is not coming out to watch.
    
    Everyone knows, including general audiences when they see the full trailer, that this movie is about the characters when they were younger. Shatner's presence or lack of it wouldn't even cross their minds. Trust me.
    
    -- Steve
    
    --------
    
    -- Steve
    "If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

    
    

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    • RE: | Report this post to moderator
      By: Fritz (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:11:30 on Jun 30, 2008

      I don't think you could blame a failure solely on Shatner not being in. I would just be interested to see if in the context of the story if it was the right choice to omit him.

      
      

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      • RE: | Report this post to moderator
        By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:38:37 on Jun 30, 2008

        Quote:
        I would just be interested to see if in the context of the story if it was the right choice to omit him.
        
        The context of the story is about the crew of the Enterprise when they were young. If the Romulans indeed want to go back in time and harm young Kirk, then who better than his old friend Spock who is "in the Romulan" scene trying to reunify, to follow them back and stop it? Tell me where an elder-Kirk who was killed 14 years ago has anything to do with that storyline? That is all I am saying :)
        
        -- Steve
        
        --------
        
        -- Steve
        "If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

        
        

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        • RE: | Report this post to moderator
          By: Fritz (Odo's file, contact) @ 02:57:03 on Jul 01, 2008

          There had to be a possibility that it would fit. The meeting with Shatner was for the purpose of involvement with the movie. I am sure they had already had this storyline in mind at that point. Even if the script wasn't finished.

          
          

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          • RE: | Report this post to moderator
            By: rassmguy (Odo's file, contact) @ 06:58:53 on Jul 01, 2008

            "a percentage of the fan base saw this as an open door to revive their old hero"
            
            A small percentage, to be fair. Ultimately, Shatner's involvement in the film, or lack thereof, won't have any bearing whatsoever on whether or not it's successful--the only thing that matters is whether the film is any good. And no amount of posturing and chest-thumping by a small but vocal group is going to change that. Once the film comes out and either sinks or swims on its own merits, the "Shetner must be in it or the film will tank" crowd will get bored, once they see how irrelevant that notion ultimately is.
            
            
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            Author, Timeline of the Planet of the Apes: The Definitive Chronology
            Available now from Hasslein Books
            www.hassleinbooks.com
            

            
            

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            • RE: | Report this post to moderator
              By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:32:36 on Jul 01, 2008

              Heh, I agree with everything you just said. I know the percentage of fans who feel this way is small, but I didn't say that for fear of attack! It is a lot riskier having our opinion :)
              
              -- Steve
              
              --------
              
              -- Steve
              "If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

              
              

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Hocus-pocus ad hominem lemming retard | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:03:54 on Jun 29, 2008

Quote:
A 24th-century Spock has "no place" in the timeframe of his 23rd-century self, yet Abrams et al are reportedly resorting to sci-fi hocus-pocus to put him there.

If I recall correctly, Captain Kirk used "hocus-pocus" to go back to 1986 and save humanity by finding whales. I think Captain Picard also travelled by means of "hocus-pocus" to get to 2163 (thanks to the Borg) to help Cochrane do his thing. A 24th century Spock needs little or no explanation because we all know he is alive and time-travel is an accepted plot device. You would need far more to explain why elder Kirk was there, 14 years after he was killed -- forget about the distraction to the plot.

-- Steve

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-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

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Star Trek XII: So Very Tired | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:25:30 on Jun 29, 2008

Ask an you shall recieve...



-- Steve

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-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

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welll,.... | Report this post to moderator
By: Terry212 (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 20:51:03 on Jun 29, 2008

while I feel it MIGHT be a mistake catering to us old fans, I think they might be tempted to do Star Trek 12: Search for Kirk.

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Being reflective.. | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:32:44 on Jun 29, 2008 | (1)

Quote:
Shatner's moved on from the 'it's a bad decision' and is actually hyping the movie now, maybe you should too don't you think?

I must admit, this subject has been more touchy than I expected. Everyone here knows my feeling on this matter.. that this is not a film about Shatner's Kirk and therefore its success, in my opinion, will have nothing to do with his absence from it.

I guess it just goes to show what an impact he had in the role. I loved him as Kirk all the way through his demise in Generations - I hope that doesnt get lost in all this. I do feel the health of the franchise is the most important thing though, and that's why I am so passionate about the subject. I want this film to hit a home run. I guess as long as the actor is still alive and new Star Trek films are being made, this subject will not go away.

-- Steve

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-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

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• RE: Being reflective.. | Report this post to moderator
  By: The Magrathean (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:35:31 on Jun 29, 2008

  Well said. I also think the franchise needs to move on and address bigger issues than just whether Shatner is in the movie. But every fan of Trek should acknowledge that we wouldn't have Trek in the first place without him.
  
  That was gracious of Shatner to say about JJ Abrams, too.

  
  

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  • RE: Being reflective.. | Report this post to moderator
    By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:52:02 on Jun 29, 2008

    Quote:
    But every fan of Trek should acknowledge that we wouldn't have Trek in the first place without him.
    
    I think we should just be careful and realize Shatner's place. He played the most important character to the franchise as a whole from an iconic standpoint.. but the franchise to date was built on FAR more than just his appearance in 79 episodes and 7 films. To be fair, Michael Dorn appeared in 5 films and 277 episodes.. the most screen time of any Trek actor. It is all relative.
    
    -- Steve
    
    --------
    
    -- Steve
    "If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

    
    

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    • Shatner is the man | Report this post to moderator
      By: GustavoLeao (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 17:10:35 on Jun 29, 2008 | (1)

      [double post - sorry]
      
      Gustavo
      
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      gl2000@uol.com.br

      
      

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    • Shatner is the man | Report this post to moderator
      By: GustavoLeao (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 17:10:35 on Jun 29, 2008

      I think Shatner impact on the Star Trek franchise went beyond his appearance in TOS and the movies as Kirk. He was a creative force behind the scenes as well, he re-wrote several scripts including the Star Trek The Motion Picture, wrote (with the Reeves-Stevens) 10 best-selling Star Trek novels featuring the return of Kirk (including the biggest selling Star Trek novel of all-time, The Return), wrote 4 behind the scenes books on the franchise (Star Trek Memories, Star Trek Movie Memmories, Get a Life and I am Working on That), produced videos on the making of the Original Series and movies (Star Trek Memories, Mind Meld), has done several conventions worldwide more than any other TOS actor, and so forth. Well, I agree that there is no place for Bill in J.J. Abrams storyline because of his death in Generations, but we cannot deny the impact of Mr Shatner in the Star Trek franchise over the years. And now, it appears that he is giving his support for Abrams movie, he didnt need to do that. Well done, Bill, you are a class act.
      
      Gustavo
      
      --------
      
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      gl2000@uol.com.br

      
      

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      • RE: Shatner is the man | Report this post to moderator
        By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:03:38 on Jun 29, 2008 | (2)

        Quote from GustavoLeao:
        Well, I agree that there is no place for Bill in J.J. Abrams storyline because of his death in Generations
        
        
        A 24th-century Spock has "no place" in the timeframe of his 23rd-century self, yet Abrams et al reportedly resort to sci-fi hocus-pocus to put him there (Chris Pine mentioned his scenes with Nimoy).
        
        Does elder Spock then remain moronically mum, or does he offer word about future peril to his soul brother -- which prepares the Kirk legend to again cheat death. The GEN argument falls dead, as a forewarned Kirk never dies in that adventure.
        
        
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      • RE: Shatner is the man | Report this post to moderator
        By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:34:27 on Jun 29, 2008

        ...and here I thought Oprah was God.
        
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        -- Steve
        "If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

        
        

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Well done Shat | Report this post to moderator
By: YodaOldBoy (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 11:16:44 on Jun 29, 2008

I've been one to complain a lot about Shatner's negative attitude toward Trek XI but this interview is a good step for him I think. Instead of whining at not being in the movie and that it's a poor business decisions, he instead says he's sad because he feels like the movie is going to be great. Keep on that trend, that's a good attitude that will actually get the people interested in seeing the movie. I applause this change of attitude.

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McCord: You know when you really want something, you close your eyes and wish for it really hard? God is the guy that ignores you!

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• RE: Well done Shat | Report this post to moderator
  By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:09:06 on Jun 29, 2008

  Shatner has never displayed a bad attitude toward the movie. He only expressed dismay that he wasn't invited to the party. The situation was handled horribly by Abrams and his team. And the movie will hurt because he's not in it.

  
  

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  • RE: Well done Shat | Report this post to moderator
    By: YodaOldBoy (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 12:12:12 on Jun 29, 2008

    Shatner's moved on from the 'it's a bad decision' and is actually hyping the movie now, maybe you should too don't you think?
    
    --------
    
    Lincoln Six-Echo: Who is 'God'?
    McCord: You know when you really want something, you close your eyes and wish for it really hard? God is the guy that ignores you!
    
    - The Island

    
    

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    • RE: Well done Shat | Report this post to moderator
      By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:20:58 on Jun 29, 2008

      First, no. Second, he has not moved on from it being a bad decision. It IS a bad decision. It was a TERRIBLE decision that will hurt the movie.
      
      Just because Shatner has ALWAYS, from day one, been classier than Abrams and his crew of liars, doesn't change that this move STINKS.
      
      I still have no intention of paying to see this film.

      
      

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      • RE: Well done Shat | Report this post to moderator
        By: YodaOldBoy (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 12:31:13 on Jun 29, 2008

        Then, from the bottom of my heart and all the kindness I can gather, get the fuck off this site and stop pissing on everything that comes from this movie. If you have zero interest in it, why even bother? I wasn't too sure recasting was such a good idea myself but I'm open-minded enough to give JJ and his team a chance to tell a good story. If you have a preconceived idea and, no matter how good this movie turns out to be, you will still say it stinks, we don't need you here. I don't mind critical people as long as they are critical for a reason (ie. 'Precious Cargo' from ENT or 'Spock's Brain' from TOS for example) or in an open-minded way (ie. unsure about Quinto as Spock but I'll still watch it). You, sir, are the worst kind of people we can find on internet boards, whiners who bitch about everything they can.
        
        Anyway, I'm losing my time here, I'm sure you won't change and I'm sure TrekWeb enforces freedom of speech and is a kind enough community to let you complain until the movie is out and even after. So, enjoy your blasting of the movie if you can't enjoy new Trek in the way you should.
        
        --------
        
        Lincoln Six-Echo: Who is 'God'?
        McCord: You know when you really want something, you close your eyes and wish for it really hard? God is the guy that ignores you!
        
        - The Island

        
        

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        • RE: Well done Shat | Report this post to moderator
          By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:30:12 on Jun 29, 2008 | (1)

          Quote from YodaOldBoy to StillKirok:
          You, sir, are the worst kind of people we can find on internet boards, whiners who bitch about everything they can.
          
          
          No, the worst type of person squats quietly until there's an opportunity to abuse another member of the online community. That hasn't been you, but you can see StillKirok's stalker in this thread.
          
          Works of fiction, and their makers, are fair game for criticism. A constant show of disappointment is no more polarized than a constant show of enthusiasm.
          
          The desire to include Shatner as elder Kirk has been lit and stoked by Team Abrams, who haven't given closure to the matter.
          
          
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          • RE: Well done Shat | Report this post to moderator
            By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:12:51 on Jun 29, 2008

            Quote:
            The desire to include Shatner as elder Kirk has been lit and stoked by Team Abrams, who haven't given closure to the matter.
            
            Lit and stoked? That is a dellusion by people like you who are in a sad denial. You can copy and paste your endless quotes from Orci, call them all liars, cry, accuse, and moan. Shatner will not be in this film, nor does he belong in it. I am sure your social worker would be glad to serve you a heavy dose of the realism pill ad hominem, blah blah blah.
            
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            -- Steve
            "If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

            
            

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            • RE: Well done Shat | Report this post to moderator
              By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:31:45 on Jun 29, 2008

              Quote from cdydatzigs:
              You can copy and paste your endless quotes from Orci...
              
              
              Yes, you've already established that reality has little relevance by you.
              
              You didn't realize that foreknowledge makes for preparation. You even needed an explanation for why someone might wait until ST:XI comes to TV. And you appear blissfully unaware of your uncommon ignorance.
              
              If you're an adult, pity would ask that you be excused as mentally retarded.
              
              
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        • RE: Well done Shat | Report this post to moderator
          By: The Real Dr McCoy (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:18:15 on Jun 29, 2008

          Well said.
          
          "If you have zero interest in it, why even bother?"
          
          Ah, but StillKirok has made it quite clear that he does have an interest in seeing the movie fail. He's said so at least once. You're right that if it were merely a matter of descriptively thinking that the movie won't do well, the Ahab-esque posting wouldn't make much sense. But we're dealing with individuals that actively want to see the movie do poorly, which places these posts in important context.
          
          -The Doctor
          
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          "That green-blooded Son of a Bitch... It's his revenge for all those arguments he lost to me!"
          - Bones

          
          

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        • RE: Well done Shat | Report this post to moderator
          By: rico (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:02:58 on Jun 29, 2008

          WORD

          
          

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          • RE: Well done Shat | Report this post to moderator
            By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:15:36 on Jun 29, 2008

            Well said Yoda.. there's a protectivism that allows you to scream at the top of your lungs about the 'popular' opinion that wants Shatner in everything, but if you are of the 'taboo' opinion that J.J. owes him nothing and he doesn't belong in this film? Heh, prepare for repercussions. I know this first hand. :)
            
            -- Steve
            
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            -- Steve
            "If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.

            
            

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