Why bother to deny rumors? | Report this post to moderator
By: VZX (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:53:04 on Jan 07, 2008

Rumors on the internet about upcoming movies have been around since the internet went public. Why is this guy reponding to them? So, if they're wrong, big deal, ignore them. To come out and say they are wrong looks unprofessional.

I really lost almost all hope on this movie. This Orci guy isn't helping. But I am still following the details as they come out. It's fun! Thanks, Trekweb. You guys are awesome.

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• RE: Why bother to deny rumors? | Report this post to moderator
  By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 19:20:07 on Jan 13, 2008

  "Rumors on the internet about upcoming movies have been around since the internet went public. Why is this guy reponding to them?"
  
  Because film-makers not responding to them is precisely why rumors on the internet, about upcoming movies, have been around since the internet went public. Lies should be nipped in the bud early and often (no matter what they are in regards to).
  
  --------
  
  
  The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
  my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
  breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
  only hollow rhythms resounded from within.

  
  

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It's just too bad... | Report this post to moderator
By: Sam Cogley (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:53:43 on Jan 07, 2008

...that he didn't shove a grenade up AICN's azz.

--------

Growing up leads to growing old and then to dying,
And dying to me dont sound like all that much fun...
-John Mellencamp

Political tags-such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth-are never basic criteria.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
-Robert A. Heinlein

Samuel T. Cogley, Attorney at Law

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• RE: It's just too bad... | Report this post to moderator
  By: Sam Cogley (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:19:32 on Jan 07, 2008

  For the humor-impaired, I'm obviously being sarcastic. A website has no azz to shove anything up. :p
  
  --------
  
  Growing up leads to growing old and then to dying,
  And dying to me dont sound like all that much fun...
  -John Mellencamp
  
  Political tags-such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth-are never basic criteria.
  The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
  -Robert A. Heinlein
  
  Samuel T. Cogley, Attorney at Law

  
  

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Mums for Meatheads | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:32:36 on Jan 07, 2008

Quote from c.p.:
Now he should do what he said he should have done and not comment any more on rumors.


Orci should go mum simply because he tends to come across as a meathead.

Example: Orci has said it's difficult to write for characters that we know won't die by the end of the adventure. Such an uninspired scribe has no business penning for Gene Roddenberry's timeless triumvirate. Star Trek isn't about escaping death, it's about why humans aspire. The former is the stuff of video games, the latter is the stuff of sentient life.

Executive producer Bryan Burk said five brains worked on the ST:XI script. Since that included Orci, it was more like four-and-a-half brains. ;-)


----------------

Stargate Atlantis - Field Ops Sheppard

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• RE: Mums for Meatheads | Report this post to moderator
  By: Reklaw (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:40:16 on Jan 07, 2008

  Quote:
  Orci should go mum simply because he tends to come across as a meat-head.
  
  I don't think he comes across that way at all.
  
  Quote:
  Example: Orci has said it's difficult to write for characters that we know won't die by the end of the adventure. Such an uninspired scribe has no business penning for Gene Roddenberry's timeless triumvirate. Star Trek isn't about escaping death, it's about why humans aspire. The former is the stuff of video games, the latter is the stuff of sentient life.
  
  While I agree that the Trek that Roddenberry was directly involved with often had other elements in addition to danger, the latter was never absent. What Orci was getting at is its quite difficult to write a sense of suspense into a work when the audience knows that characters within it survive. The audience's suspension of disbelief wears thin with foreknowledge. This is self evidently true - if we know everything must work out for the characters when the story concludes any element of struggle just seems trite. Although all Trek has faced this challenge (because we know regular characters are not going to get easily killed off), prequels with characters whose futures are known represent a bigger challenge along these lines.
  
  But since this is so self evident, its apparent you are wilfully misinterpreting Orci in order to make your point. Let's just slam Orci and whomever else is involved in the new movie, right? Intelligent discussion be damned, let's just find fault in yet another contrived way.
  
  --------
  
  'It was beautiful, we were selling rich women their fat asses back to them' - Tylor Durden

  
  

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  • RE: Mums for Meatheads | Report this post to moderator
    By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 01:16:24 on Jan 08, 2008 | (1)

    Quote from Reklaw:
    The audience's suspension of disbelief wears thin with foreknowledge. This is self evidently true - if we know everything must work out for the characters when the story concludes any element of struggle just seems trite.
    
    
    It's self-evident that the infantile mind is amused by games of "Peek-a-boo!"
    
    Drama isn't a function of foreknowledge, nor of mortality. If it were, audiences (thus Hollywood) would ignore productions of well-known historical events such as Apollo 13.
    
    
    ----------------
    
    TOS Classic 2-in-1 Phaser
    
    

    
    

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    • RE: Mums for Meatheads | Report this post to moderator
      By: Reklaw (Odo's file, contact) @ 06:53:55 on Jan 08, 2008

      Quote:
      Drama isn't a function of foreknowledge, nor of mortality. If it were, audiences (thus Hollywood) would ignore productions of well-known historical events such as Apollo 13.
      
      Drama is a function of many possible elements. Drama usually depends on their being some form of unknown that leaves the resolution of the story in question. Whether its the resolution of some form of physical conflict or philosophical dispute, not knowing how things turn out is usually a significant part of what makes things compelling.
      
      You mentioned Apollo 13 which is a great example of exactly the point Orci was making. If you look at people's analysis of the movie (those involved with it and not) you'll see that a common observation they make is the difficulty presented by the audience knowing how the situation turns out. Such commentary can be found on the DVD extras and around the Web.
      
      Drama without the unknown is possible of course, as Apollo 13 demonstrates. In this case the audience usually experiences the suspense vicariously through the characters involved.
      
      Recall that Orci was saying its more difficult to write, not that its impossible.
      
      Quote:
      It's self-evident that the infantile mind is amused by games of "Peek-a-boo!"
      
      The irony of this non sequitor is that you are the one being very childish in your discourse. You make pompous agitated pronouncements which don't follow from others' comments or the substance of what's at issue. Instead your comments have everything to do with stroking your own (apparently tenuous) ego.
      
      --------
      
      'It was beautiful, we were selling rich women their fat asses back to them' - Tylor Durden

      
      

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      • RE: Mums for Meatheads | Report this post to moderator
        By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:21:55 on Jan 08, 2008

        Quote from Reklaw:
        Drama usually depends on their being some form of unknown that leaves the resolution of the story in question.
        
        
        Drama does not depend on the (un)known, nor on resolution. Thus a purely fantastical and open-ended story can click.
        
        Audiences do embrace dramatizations with a foreknown outcome.
        
        Orci can't write a fictional adventure without wimping about pop-cult icons that aren't bound by reality. Star Trek storytelling is out of his league.
        
        My peek-a-boo remark refers to fooling yourself: The unexpected is irrelevant for dramatic entertainment. Calling this a non sequitur shows the ceiling of your comprehension.
        
        
        ----------------
        
        The Wrath of Khan - Death of Spock Figures
        
        

        
        

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        • RE: Mums for Meatheads | Report this post to moderator
          By: Reklaw (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:46:23 on Jan 08, 2008

          Who said that audiences don't embrace dramas that depict events leading to known outcomes? Apollo 13 was a case in point of this and it was a critical success. I said nothing that suggested I think it didn't work. I accepted the example movie you provided and simply pointed out that it helped making my point because those involved in that movie spoke about the difficulty of making a dramatic movie when the outcome was known.
          
          Please look at this article to see the cinematographer of Appollo 13 making this point. I recall several others (including Ron Howard) making this point too.
          
          Quote:
          Drama does not depend on the (un)known, nor on resolution.
          
          Who, without qualification, said drama depends on the unknown? I certainly didn't.
          
          Quote:
          Thus a purely fantastical and open-ended story can click.
          
          Fantastic stories are by their natures unknown, unless of course we have read or seen them. In which case, the same hurdle is realized.
          
          
          
          Isn't it silly misrepresenting what others say in order to avoid responding to what they really are saying? My ceiling of comprehension is lofty indeed, juxtaposed with the depth of how obtuse you are being.
          
          
          
          
          --------
          
          'It was beautiful, we were selling rich women their fat asses back to them' - Tylor Durden

          
          

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          • RE: Mums for Meatheads | Report this post to moderator
            By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:09:56 on Jan 08, 2008

            Quote from Reklaw:
            Isn't it silly misrepresenting what others say in order to avoid responding to what they really are saying?
            
            
            Your statement: "if we know everything must work out for the characters when the story concludes any element of struggle just seems trite."
            
            Countless popular dramatizations of history and current events prove the absurdity of your argument.
            
            Orci is proven a meathead by all the adventure stories that don't need threat of death for drama.
            
            
            ----------------
            
            Star Trek: Year Four #5 (Cover A)
            
            

            
            

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            • RE: Mums for Meatheads | Report this post to moderator
              By: Reklaw (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:18:16 on Jan 08, 2008

              Quote:
              Your statement: "if we know everything must work out for the characters when the story concludes any element of struggle just seems trite."
              
              There you go again wilfully misrepresenting others' comment for your decidedly specious purposes. You quoted that single line out of the context of the complete point I was making - obviously. That specific line was intended to motivate an understanding of why foreknowledge is a hurdle in writing suspense into drama.
              
              Quote:
              Countless popular dramatizations of history and current events prove the absurdity of your argument.
              
              Sure they do. And the comments from the people behind the creation of these dramatizations also are irrelevant right? But of course what do they know?
              
              
              --------
              
              'It was beautiful, we were selling rich women their fat asses back to them' - Tylor Durden

              
              

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              • RE: Mums for Meatheads | Report this post to moderator
                By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:02:33 on Jan 08, 2008 | (1)

                Quote from Reklaw:
                That specific line was intended to motivate an understanding of why foreknowledge is a hurdle in writing suspense into drama.
                
                
                You're unable grasp what's relevant here, so you're digging at a bogus argument.
                
                Historical drama and pure fiction may both have foreknown outcomes, but they're two different writing challenges.
                
                Star Trek occurs in a fictional future, in a reality where death can be a temporary inconvenience. In a pre-TOS setting, there aren't even barrels of canon to juggle.
                
                Orci boasts of his incompetence at inventing dramatic fiction.
                
                
                ----------------
                
                Star Trek: Alien Spotlight - ORIONS (Cover A)
                
                

                
                

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                • RE: Mums for Meatheads | Report this post to moderator
                  By: Reklaw (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:54:00 on Jan 09, 2008 | (1)

                  Quote:
                  You're unable grasp what's relevant here, so you're digging at a bogus argument.
                  
                  Historical drama and pure fiction may both have foreknown outcomes, but they're two different writing challenges.
                  
                  
                  You were the one who referenced Apollo 13 as an example of how writing a sucessful drama based on a known story is possible! You're not only misrepresenting me, you're misrepresenting your own contributions to this discussion. Don't distance yourself from historical drama as an appropriate case in point of what we are discussing just because the makers of Apollo 13 disagree with you.
                  
                  Dramatic fiction with a known outcome and dramatic historical works both present the same difficulty to a prospective writer. Namely, how to maintain suspense / excitement etc when the audience knows what's coming. Its not impossible by any means, but tricks need to be employed effectively.
                  
                  Anyway, can I have some of what you're smoking? It'll make this thread worth it.
                  
                  --------
                  
                  'It was beautiful, we were selling rich women their fat asses back to them' - Tylor Durden

                  
                  

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                  • RE: Mums for Meatheads | Report this post to moderator
                    By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:37:30 on Jan 09, 2008

                    Quite from Reklaw:
                    You were the one who referenced Apollo 13 as an example of how writing a sucessful drama based on a known story is possible!
                    
                    
                    Are you illiterate, or just another meathead?
                    
                    The context of my reference is that drama is not a function of foreknowledge. I'm not interested in your babble-brain detours.
                    
                    How many episodes of TOS end with Kirk still alive? You and Orci will be astonished by the answer.
                    
                    
                    ----------------
                    
                    Cloverfield: The Monstrous Movie Poster
                    
                    

                    
                    

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                    • RE: Mums for Meatheads | Report this post to moderator
                      By: Reklaw (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:04:08 on Jan 09, 2008

                      Let's recap and make things mind numbingly simple for you:
                      
                      Your point was that foreknowledge doesn't effect the dramatic writer's task.
                      
                      You cited Apollo 13 as an example of how drama can be achieved notwithstanding audience foreknowledge of a story's outcome (Which was pointless because I never argued otherwise. Try to grasp that difficult doesn't mean impossible. You need to think in obtuse extremes I appreciate, but try to digest this not overly nuanced point).
                      
                      I showed you that the makers of the movie you cited disagree with your original point.
                      
                      QED!
                      
                      --------
                      
                      'It was beautiful, we were selling rich women their fat asses back to them' - Tylor Durden

                      
                      

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                      • RE: Mums for Meatheads | Report this post to moderator
                        By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:49:12 on Jan 09, 2008 | (2)

                        Quote from Reklaw:
                        Your point was that foreknowledge doesn't effect the dramatic writer's task.
                        
                        
                        Wrong. My comment was about audience interest in drama that has a foreknown outcome.
                        
                        Looks like your numbskullery needs some spoon-feeding.
                        
                        Here's precisely what I posted above: "Drama isn't a function of foreknowledge, nor of mortality. If it were, audiences (thus Hollywood) would ignore productions of well-known historical events such as Apollo 13."
                        
                        Get that? If not, go find a brainy adult to explain it.
                        
                        
                        For those who don't recall, here's what IESB.net quotes from Roberto Orci: "How do you have drama if indeed you are dealing with characters, when you stick to canon, who you know live to be 100. How do you have drama if that's the case?"
                        
                        Golly, so how did TOS create dozens of weekly dramatic adventure stories, with the foreknowledge that all principal characters would live to return for the next episode???
                        
                        Fortunately, for Orci's career, there's a flock of moviegoers who crave the kind of "drama" found in shoot-'em-up video games.
                        
                        
                        ----------------
                        
                        The Full Body Project: Photographs by Leonard Nimoy
                        
                        

                        
                        

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                        • RE: Mums for Meatheads | Report this post to moderator
                          By: Reklaw (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:10:45 on Jan 09, 2008

                          Quote:
                          Orci has said it's difficult to write for characters that we know won't die by the end of the adventure
                          
                          Are these not your own words? Is someone else using your account? Otherwise how can you deny that your point was not about a contention with Orci on the notion that it is difficult to write drama when the audience knows the outcome?
                          
                          Go ahead, reconcile the above quote with:
                          
                          Quote:
                          Wrong. My comment was about audience interest in drama that has a foreknown outcome.
                          
                          
                          Now instead of having another snide go at the general public, those who don't agree with you, or me, why not look in the mirror here and be honest? Frankly, any sane person would appreciate its more embarrassing not to. You're full of it dude.
                          
                          --------
                          
                          'It was beautiful, we were selling rich women their fat asses back to them' - Tylor Durden

                          
                          

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                          • RE: Mums for Meatheads | Report this post to moderator
                            By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:07:17 on Jan 09, 2008

                            Quote from Reklaw:
                            Otherwise how can you deny that your point was not about a contention with Orci on the notion that it is difficult to write drama when the audience knows the outcome?
                            
                            
                            So, a spoon is too big -- your inanity needs to be fed with an eyedropper.
                            
                            Examine my previous post. Get yourself a translator if English isn't your primary language.
                            
                            My reference to Apollo 13 is about audience interest in drama that has a foreknown outcome.
                            
                            My comment about Orci as a writer is on his quoted "How do you have drama...?" meatheadedness.
                            
                            Don't prove yourself to be a complete idiot.
                            
                            
                            ----------------
                            
                            Monty Python: Abuse Voice Keychain
                            
                            "I wave my private parts at your aunties!"
                            

                            
                            

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AICN is a total waste. | Report this post to moderator
By: prometheus 59650 (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 11:18:19 on Jan 07, 2008

I'm glad the man is slappin' 'em around. But this alone:

Quote:
"No Kirk as bad student. We all know he's a genius."

Makes me feel a lot better as it strongly suggests that Kirk beating the KM isn't going to happen SOLELY by him banging his way through the test.

--------

"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.

"If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry

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Suck it, AICN | Report this post to moderator
By: c.p. (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:14:53 on Jan 07, 2008

YES! Categorical denials. I love them.

Now he should do what he said he should have done and not comment any more on rumors. Because he's right. Sooner or later something will come up that's true, but in an untrue and unflattering context, and he won't be able to deny it as strongly. It's very tricky, and we're a tough audience. This new strategy of theirs, where they interact with the fans directly in forums, is cool but it's got to be tricky for them.

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• Now He Doesn't Have To | Report this post to moderator
  By: Jean-Luc (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:44:01 on Jan 07, 2008

  If he wants to reply to anything else 'reported' by AICN all he has to do now is say something akin to, "I think everyone knows my opinion of AICN's credibility."
  It can be true or not and he wouldn't have to admit to it either way.
  
  --------
  
  "Outer Space: The Last Frontier.
  These are the trips of the Star Trek Enterprise. Its five year plan calls for us to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly fly where no man has gone in space. Live long, and be happy."
  
  Patrick Stewart--SNL, Stardate 9402.05

  
  

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  • RE: Now He Doesn't Have To | Report this post to moderator
    By: c.p. (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:29:34 on Jan 07, 2008

    Let's hope he understands he has that option. I'm sure he does.

    
    

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• RE: Suck it, AICN | Report this post to moderator
  By: peter0302 (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:35:42 on Jan 07, 2008

  Agreed. Odd that he's commenting at all. I wonder if it's because of the writer's strike that the studios have no control over what their writers say or do.

  
  

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  • RE: Suck it, AICN | Report this post to moderator
    By: c.p. (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:15:48 on Jan 07, 2008

    Yeah. Maybe he's bored.

    
    

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Orci is funny | Report this post to moderator
By: captainkoloth (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 05:18:35 on Jan 07, 2008

This is hilarious. I don't blame him for coming out and denying these rumours. I still stand by the Leonard Nimoy principle: if Nimoy brings himself out of his acting retirement to resurrect the character of Spock, the script must have something to it.

I have to admit that I took some of that AICN bait, or at least nibbled at the hook for a second. heh It was more of that I didn't want to believe it, but since it was written on the internets there might be a string of truth to the article. Anyway, I'm glad Orci decided to set that straight.

--------

There once was a man named Scorned,
whose posts were more offensive than porn.
He posted one too many,
got kicked out on his fanny,
and all the while he had been warned.

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• RE: Orci is funny | Report this post to moderator
  By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 06:27:15 on Jan 07, 2008

  Considering he lied about being interested in having Shatner in the movie, and making efforts to GET him in the movie, you really can't take the guy at his word.
  
  

  
  

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  • RE: Orci is funny | Report this post to moderator
    By: Reklaw (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:47:50 on Jan 07, 2008

    Quote:
    Considering he lied about being interested in having Shatner in the movie, and making efforts to GET him in the movie, you really can't take the guy at his word.
    
    
    You, in all seriousness, are a childish buffoon. Don't you feel even slightly self-conscious as you sob, whine and vilify the nasty, evil people who wont arrange to put Shat in the next movie? Grow up and stop throwing tantrums in the sand box!
    
    --------
    
    'It was beautiful, we were selling rich women their fat asses back to them' - Tylor Durden

    
    

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  • RE: Orci is funny | Report this post to moderator
    By: TonyDP (Odo's file, contact) @ 06:39:47 on Jan 07, 2008 | (1)

    How did he "lie" about having Shatner in the movie? Since day one all he, Kurtzman and Abrams have said was that they were exploring ways to put Shatner in it; they never said he would definitely be in it.
    
    As to the AICN story; that website has become home to a fringe element which is in no way indicative of mainstream moviegoing trends. Only AICN fanboys take information posted to that site seriously and their numbers are insignificant. Orci would really be better off simply ignoring their foul mouthed, yellow journalism stories.

    
    

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    • RE: Orci is funny | Report this post to moderator
      By: captainkoloth (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 06:53:11 on Jan 07, 2008

      Quote:
      As to the AICN story; that website has become home to a fringe element which is in no way indicative of mainstream moviegoing trends. Only AICN fanboys take information posted to that site seriously and their numbers are insignificant. Orci would really be better off simply ignoring their foul mouthed, yellow journalism stories.
      
      Yeah, I didn't realize that AICN was so ridiculous, though all you have to do is look at their site to realize that.
      
      --------
      
      There once was a man named Scorned,
      whose posts were more offensive than porn.
      He posted one too many,
      got kicked out on his fanny,
      and all the while he had been warned.
      

      
      

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