No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Behr's | Report this post to moderator
By: Muldfeld (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:50:35 on Dec 25, 2007

Seriously, DS9 was the only really bright moment in the franchise. It's been downhill from there. J.J. Abrams is a hack and so are his crappy Alias writers. The new film might be fun but it will be superficial and gimmicky. I see no reason why Patrick Stewart should like anything Trek related these days because it all sucks.

I'm glad that Ira hasn't felt the need to kaotao to the commercial, fake, plastic altar of J.J. Abrams just because he seems to have won the popularity contest in Hollywood. Star Trek is dead. Only someone of Ira Steven Behr's integrity could revive it. Paramount is governed by the worst instincts. They'd turn it into Heroes if they could.

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• RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
  By: Captain Patti (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:44:40 on Dec 26, 2007

  Agreed!
  
  It is amazing to see that you have courage to post this despite the flack you will get from the "inner boys" circle. Good for you!
  
  
  
  

  
  

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  • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
    By: Muldfeld (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:53:27 on Dec 27, 2007

    Hey, thanks. I actually know very little about the Trek community, despite having watched it religiously since I was a child. Next Gen was pretty good, mostly Seasons 3 and 4. However, everything after DS9 was awful. I can understand people loving the franchise for nostalgia purposes, and they're free to for whatever other reasons. If I were 7 again, I would have loved the action of Enterprise and been bored by original drama, too.
    
    However, what I can't stand is all the acclaim J.J. Abrams receives for the laziest work. It's an insult to all the hard-working writers like the more famous writers within Trek, but also great writers like Melinda Snodgrass.

    
    

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  • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
    By: The Real Dr McCoy (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:15:51 on Dec 27, 2007

    Close-minded premature judgment isn't nearly the virtue that you seem to hold it as being.
    
    The ridicule and criticism that that outlook elicits is more than warranted.
    
    -The Doctor
    
    --------
    
    
    
    
    "That green-blooded Son of a Bitch... It's his revenge for all those arguments he lost to me!"
    - Bones

    
    

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    • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
      By: Captain Patti (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:00:39 on Dec 29, 2007

      Going around with these "blinders" over your eyes is no way to go through life. Having to wait to see the "train wreck" before it happens is a pretty disturbing way to live. Of course we are again talking about you, so go figure. I really do think you need to change your name from "The Real DrMcCoy" to "In need of the real DrMcCoy".
      
      

      
      

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      • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
        By: The Real Dr McCoy (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:37:56 on Dec 29, 2007 | (2)

        I really do wish I possessed the omniscience requisite to evaluate art before I’ve seen it and before it has even been finished and become available for viewing, but acutely I’m aware that I do not.
        
        Having an opinion about possible future events and expressing that opinion is one thing. Deluding one’s self into a belief that that opinion is fact is another. The former is rational and the latter is not. Pity some (a certain banned troll of yesteryear comes to mind) are wholly incapable of understanding the difference.
        
        -The Doctor
        
        --------
        
        
        
        
        "That green-blooded Son of a Bitch... It's his revenge for all those arguments he lost to me!"
        - Bones

        
        

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        • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
          By: lnf (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:09:01 on Mar 23, 2008 | (1)

          Quote:
          I really do wish I possessed the omniscience requisite to evaluate art before I’ve seen it and before it has even been finished and become available for viewing, but acutely I’m aware that I do not.
          
          Having an opinion about possible future events and expressing that opinion is one thing. Deluding one’s self into a belief that that opinion is fact is another. The former is rational and the latter is not. Pity some (a certain banned troll of yesteryear comes to mind) are wholly incapable of understanding the difference.
          
          -The Doctor
          
          Take your own advice, you troller.

          
          

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• RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
  By: John Calvin (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 05:40:47 on Dec 26, 2007

  Quote:
  J.J. Abrams is a hack and so are his crappy Alias writers. The new film might be fun but it will be superficial and gimmicky.
  
  I admire that you have the clairvoyance to know these things without any facts to back them up.
  
  --------
  
  "It's not who I am inside, but what I do that defines me." -Batman
  
  www.gracelockport.com

  
  

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  • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
    By: Muldfeld (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:49:45 on Dec 27, 2007

    Well, I've given his work a truly fair shot. Alias is terrible. He sucks. The great elements of "Lost" are mostly due to Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindeloff, but someone tell me why J.J. who has done next to nothing for the series since the pilot still gets so much recognition for this show?
    
    Have you seen Transformers? Same guys are writing this one.

    
    

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    • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
      By: John Calvin (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 05:58:04 on Dec 27, 2007

      Quote:
      Well, I've given his work a truly fair shot.
      
      Have you seen Transformers? Same guys are writing this one.
      
      Well, I can't really argue with a matter of personal taste. I have never seen any of JJ's work myself, but have heard that it is well liked by many, so in the absence of anything concrete to judge on, I will hope for the best with Trek XI. That's really the point I am making here... give it a chance.
      
      As for Transformers, I suppose I'm in the minority here, but I liked it.
      
      --------
      
      "It's not who I am inside, but what I do that defines me." -Batman
      
      www.gracelockport.com

      
      

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      • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
        By: dphizler (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 07:28:01 on Dec 27, 2007

        Well I saw some of Lost, Mission Impossible 3 and Transformers
        
        Lost got boring real fast for me. MI3 was good in parts but that's all and transformers and their british speaking highschool graduates in the pentagon who are smarter than professionals is just lame.

        
        

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  • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
    By: hiikeeba (Odo's file, contact) @ 06:47:49 on Dec 26, 2007

    It's no more clairvoyant than to say otherwise, as so many on these boards are doing.
    
    --------
    
    "A foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of tiny minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson
    
    "Emerson!" Isaac Asimov

    
    

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    • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
      By: John Calvin (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 07:15:36 on Dec 26, 2007

      Quote:
      It's no more clairvoyant than to say otherwise, as so many on these boards are doing.
      
      I have seen many say that they HOPE, or they THINK this will be a good movie. But to summarily label JJ and his team as hacks and say that the movie sucks without any facts to support it is awfully bold and presumptuous.
      
      --------
      
      "It's not who I am inside, but what I do that defines me." -Batman
      
      www.gracelockport.com

      
      

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      • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
        By: GustavoLeao (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 07:26:11 on Dec 26, 2007 | (1)

        Dont bother to discuss this subject with him, John. The fact is nobody knows at this point if the movie is going to be good or bad. We need more info, which hopefully, will be posted on TrekWeb soon. But dont bother discussing such things with people who already made their negative minds, unfortunately.
        
        Gustavo
        
        --------
        
        TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
        
        gl2000@uol.com.br

        
        

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        • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
          By: OV-101 (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:38:58 on Dec 26, 2007

          Excellent point Gustavo. It's OK, John, most of us are in concurrence with you. It is way too premature to say anything + or - about the movie. However, I am an optimist and will say it will be a good movie.
          
          --------
          
          "Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."
          -- John Wayne
          
          "Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence."
          --Dr. Leonard McCoy
          
          "I'm a politician, which means I am a cheat and a liar, and when I am not kissing babies I am stealing their lollipops."
          -- Jeffrey Pelt, The Hunt for Red October
          
          "Liberals, Intellectuals, Peacemongers, IDIOTS!!!!"
          - General Decker, Mars Attacks
          
          "It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires, both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
          - Q from Q Who

          
          

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        • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
          By: John Calvin (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 07:51:05 on Dec 26, 2007

          Quote:
          Dont bother to discuss this subject with him, John. The fact is nobody knows at this point if the movie is going to be good or bad. We need more info, which hopefully, will be posted on TrekWeb soon. But dont bother discussing such things with people who already made their negative minds, unfortunately.
          
          Excellent point Gustavo. You're a wise man, my friend.
          
          --------
          
          "It's not who I am inside, but what I do that defines me." -Batman
          
          www.gracelockport.com

          
          

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          • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
            By: Captain Patti (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:42:49 on Dec 26, 2007

            This idea that we have to "wait and see" the movie before judging is silly. If Berman and Braga were doing one last film everyone and I mean EVERYONE (including all these people who keep whining about having to see it first before making any opinion) would be trashing the film before they shot one frame.
            
            It is very simple that this movie will be stupid and be nothing more than a sell out. An big attempt to get the American Idol audience in the seats. Just look at the various things that are coming out. You have comments like "a movie your mother will love". Then the classic lying of "we want Shatner vs we can't use Shatner because they killed Kirk". I mean for gods sakes the people behind this can't keep their own lying straight. The storyline being something about the Romulans going back in time to kill Kirk (cough cough FIRST CONTACT). Then the most ridiculous thing to come out of this is a redesign of the original ship. My god. It is suppose to be a prequel and the ship will NOT be the same?
            
            Just because these guys say they are fans and adding stupid things like a tribble and an Orion slave girl etc as some stupid "nod" to TOS means nothing. You have the Nimoy wanna be (Zac) who admits to not really watching Trek suddenly giving us his "opinion of the character" etc. Give your head a shake I don't care to hear the opinion of someone is not a fan of the series. The greatest insult is the "Tiny Toon TOS" cast. The idea that the characters are going to be different before they evolve into the ones we know in TOS is a BIG STRETCH!
            
            There will be this "well Nimoy approves". Of course he is. The movie was written FOR him. He will STAR in it. It strokes his ego and gives him a nice big FAT pay check.
            
            As it stands right now. We are getting nothing new. No new ship. No new cast. No new situations. No new villains. No new anything. Just more mind numbing prequel crap. ENT took care of any prequel idea that fans might have wanted to see.
            
            For all the "boys" who are going to go ape shit over this and start getting off topic with their crap. Why not make a single thread which points out WHY anyone should be happy about STXI: 90210 with what is now known about STXI. It will be a very if not nonexistent thread.
            
            
            
            As it stands, Abrams and his so called crew of "fans" are nothing more than a bunch of liars.
            
            

            
            

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            • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
              By: timmer33 (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:25:24 on Dec 27, 2007

              "This idea that we have to "wait and see" the movie before judging is silly."
              
              I stopped reading there. That statement is the sign of an ignorant, opinionated (without good reason) and most likely obnoxious person.
              
              Give your head a shake, Patti.

              
              

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              • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
                By: Captain Patti (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:07:04 on Dec 29, 2007

                Try giving your head a shake first. Waiting for the train wreck to happen first is not a way to go through life. There is plenty known about this movie that can allow you to make opinion instead of that that tired old line of "wait and see". I am sure if they had Shatner in it, you and the rest of the Anti-Shatners would be bashing the hell out of this film. So spare me your self delusions of grandeur. You are just unable to give an opinion because you know it will be baseless and you can't dispute the things that have already come out over this movie. So continue to get off topic with your rants. It only shows your inability to negate what I said.Once again my request by all you Abrams lovers over why anyone should be happy with this Tiny Toon TOS backward Trek movie has gone unchallenged.
                
                

                
                

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                • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
                  By: timmer33 (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:17:35 on Dec 29, 2007

                  Dear Troll,
                  
                  Why come here again and again criticizing a film you say you aren't going to see? Everyone knows your opinion, so why waste your time? Maybe because you have nothing else better to do.
                  
                  All I'm saying is wait to see the finished product, then judge. Wow. What a bizarre and outlandish idea.
                  
                  As everyone on this board knows, it's impossible to reason with Captain Patti.

                  
                  

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            • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
              By: AndorianBlues (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:39:50 on Dec 26, 2007

              Patti,
              
              You have been billowing the same smoke for the past six months about why you have no intentions of seeing this movie, and how you hope it will tank.
              
              I get it. I am perfectly clear that you don't care to have any part in the movie, and that's completely okay if you don't. However, you're going to find that a large segment of the fanbase is actually excited about seeing the new incarnation of Trek ... Numerous people have tried to take you on point by point on why you think the new movie will fail (myself included), and yet you spew the same bile at anyone who shows the slightest bit of interest.
              
              There's a little concept you may or may not have heard of called 'agreeing to disagree.' It's this thing where you're okay with having your own opinion, and you're okay with other people having differing opinions, too. It's what makes America such a wonderful place, you see.
              
              And as far as the movie goes ... well, Woody Allen once said "Even when sex is bad, it's still pretty good." I think the same can be said of Star Trek, no matter the incarnation. I'm okay with shelling out eight bucks to see if Abrams can put his money where his mouth is. If it blows, well ... I'm only out eight bucks.
              
              Cheers!
              
              AB
              
              --------
              
              Stupid is as stupid does. :)

              
              

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            • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
              By: John Calvin (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 11:16:57 on Dec 26, 2007

              Quote:
              This idea that we have to "wait and see" the movie before judging is silly.
              
              By the way, I wouldn't want to run into you in Salem, MA.
              
              --------
              
              "It's not who I am inside, but what I do that defines me." -Batman
              
              www.gracelockport.com

              
              

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            • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
              By: John Calvin (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 10:15:46 on Dec 26, 2007

              Quote:
              This idea that we have to "wait and see" the movie before judging is silly. If Berman and Braga were doing one last film everyone and I mean EVERYONE (including all these people who keep whining about having to see it first before making any opinion) would be trashing the film before they shot one frame.
              
              Well there you have it folks, yet another Betazoid has been heard from. Talk about whining. I knew we hadn't seen the last of Patti; I knew we hadn't heard the end of the crowd that would whine no matter who was making the movie, no matter what the cast or what the story.
              
              Somehow, I don't think you'd like Star Trek XI even if you wrote, produced, directed and starred in it yourself.
              
              --------
              
              "It's not who I am inside, but what I do that defines me." -Batman
              
              www.gracelockport.com

              
              

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              • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
                By: Captain Patti (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:36:16 on Dec 26, 2007

                Quote:"Well there you have it folks, yet another Betazoid has been heard from. Talk about whining. I knew we hadn't seen the last of Patti; I knew we hadn't heard the end of the crowd that would whine no matter who was making the movie, no matter what the cast or what the story."
                
                So how about address the points I made about the movie being stupid if not ridiculous. Oh wait you can't. Getting off topic to help support your Abrams admiration is the way to go huh?? Too bad it doesn't dispute what I said. Lets change the ENT design in the prequel! There you are with "What a great idea!" HAHA
                
                I have said on many occasion that instead of going backwards with this prequel garbage they could of went forward to the 25th century and had a clean slate. So don't give me this crap about me whinning about the movie. The people like yourself that will support anything with the words Trek on it don't do anything but allow the studio to do any old stupid thing because those "fans will just see it anyways no matter what stupid thing we do". Good job! THANKS FOR BEING A FAN!! HAHAHAH
                
                
                Quote::"Somehow, I don't think you'd like Star Trek XI even if you wrote, produced, directed and starred in it yourself.
                
                Once again the challenge to doing a thread about why anyone should be happy with what we now know about STXI has gone again...unchallenged. Just more off topic rants.
                
                

                
                

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                • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
                  By: John Calvin (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 11:05:31 on Dec 26, 2007

                  Quote:
                  So how about address the points I made about the movie being stupid if not ridiculous. Oh wait you can't.
                  
                  Of course I can't, because there is no point. Your argument is baseless. Besides, what on earth could I say that would convince you of anything? You have already demonstrated that you are willing to create points out of absolutely nothing.
                  
                  --------
                  
                  "It's not who I am inside, but what I do that defines me." -Batman
                  
                  www.gracelockport.com

                  
                  

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                  • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
                    By: Captain Patti (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:57:25 on Dec 29, 2007

                    Quote:"Of course I can't, because there is no point. Your argument is baseless.
                    
                    Translation....You can't because there truly is nothing positive so far about it. So you can make up all the excuses you want but I have made valid points which you clearly can't address.
                    
                    
                    Quote:"Besides, what on earth could I say that would convince you of anything? You have already demonstrated that you are willing to create points out of absolutely nothing. "
                    
                    You are not going to convince me to see this mess. However you insist that it is going to be good and get all upset when I put out the dumb things about it. BUT you don't do anything to dispute what I said. I get all these ramblings by you but you do NOT address the point. Saying that I make no point which I clearly do doesn't cut it as a valid reason.
                    
                    
                    

                    
                    

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                    • RE: No one should have any positive feelings toward Trek since Ira Beh | Report this post to moderator
                      By: John Calvin (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 10:49:44 on Dec 29, 2007

                      Quote:
                      ....You can't because there truly is nothing positive so far about it. So you can make up all the excuses you want but I have made valid points which you clearly can't address.
                      
                      First of all, I have not said "THIS IS GOING TO BE GOOD". What I have said is that I will reserve judgement until there is something to judge. That is my whole point. You admit that we don't have enough information to say anything positive about it yet. But you somehow find that you have enough information about it to trash it.
                      
                      Right now the argument that this movie will suck is just as baseless as the argument that it will absolutely, without a doubt be a hit. That's it, bottom line. Give it a chance.
                      
                      --------
                      
                      "It's not who I am inside, but what I do that defines me." -Batman
                      
                      www.gracelockport.com

                      
                      

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Define "successful", Patrick | Report this post to moderator
By: TrippingOverGod (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:40:02 on Dec 25, 2007

Honestly, he's got a bizarre duality - one day he's thankful to Trek for everything it gave him, the next he's denying that it had any effect on his career whatsoever.

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• RE: Define "successful", Patrick | Report this post to moderator
  By: GustavoLeao (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 15:58:37 on Dec 25, 2007

  I think due to his success and awards for his MacBeth and his new career on the stage, he decided to distance himself from Star Trek and his TV and movie career. This appears to happen with some of the Star Trek actors. Remember Nimoy's "I Am Not Spock" ?
  
  Gustavo
  
  --------
  
  TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
  
  gl2000@uol.com.br

  
  

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  • RE: Define "successful", Patrick | Report this post to moderator
    By: The Magrathean (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:41:56 on Dec 25, 2007

    I don't think there's that much of a duality here. He has said repeatedly he's grateful for what Star Trek did for him. At the same time, he gets irritated by others having the idea that Trek's all he does or ever did. So when somebody asks him about Trek he was never even involved with, that's when you tend to see him break out with the "I'm not in Trek anymore!" bit.

    
    

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    • RE: Define "successful", Patrick | Report this post to moderator
      By: Corona (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:48:51 on Dec 26, 2007

      Life is too short for all the negative nonsense, IMO. It is more Trek. Although after Enterprise, I will temper my usual excitement.
      
      We WILL go see this movie. If it is great, we win! If it sux, well, we neded to see for ourselves what all the talk was about anyway.
      
      I sense a bit of "Get A Life" in Stewart's response. He doesn't want to live the Trek life and that is his choice. He certainly has that right, doesn't he?

      
      

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      • RE: Define "successful", Patrick | Report this post to moderator
        By: GustavoLeao (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 08:22:48 on Dec 27, 2007

        Thats what I was saying. He is now a very successfull award-winning actor in the british stage - next year he will star with David Tennant ina production of Hamlet. So why talk about a prequel Star Trek movie he is not involved at all ?
        
        Gustavo
        
        --------
        
        TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
        
        gl2000@uol.com.br

        
        

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        • RE: Define "successful", Patrick | Report this post to moderator
          By: s217 (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:07:37 on Dec 31, 2007

          I realize and agree with STNG being behind him. However, knowing of him, he had no career prior to STNG not was a household name, and it is only through STNG that he gained recongition. Yes, he has been Shakespearean all his life, but why leave the UK to go to Hollywood? And then denouce the very fans that made you famous. And it is that recognition that brought the crowds to the theatres. But he is an outstanding actor, of that there is no doubt.
          
          Here in London, many are angry at him. In particular at the Standards awards, with his mind and ring games and speaking out of turn and lying to be quite frank to the public. I admire him greatly, do not get me wrong. But to thy own self be true, which for those who know him, he has not been.
          
          I am very glad he has brought MacBeth to the BAM in NYC where his other fans can see a true actor at his craft. It will be a performance not be to soon forgotten.

          
          

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