Quote:
New Star Trek Movie Storyline Details Revealed, Story Has Elements of "The City on The Edge of Forever" - Major Spoilers
Gustavo: Great job so far, but I think we're entering a phase now where "rumored details" are likely to be genuine details. If you can find a way, I'd love it if you could let readers know the degree of spoilage they're getting into about "details" and not give too much away off the top. Very tricky I know; but when I read this headline, I already knew more than I wanted to.
For the first time in a long time I really want to avoid all of the "major" spoilers for this Trek.
It's just a movie of course, but until my curiosity gets the best of me, beam me aboard.
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Doesn't any of the hardcore fans visiting these websites actually want to go into the theatre not knowing shit ahead of time?
Why do you all want to ruin it for yourselves?
If you are going to hate it, why waste all the hate now on rumours? Wait to go see it, and hate it then.
And the same if you're gonna love it.
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Speaking for myself only, I find the detective work and communal supposition entertaining. But when "official rumors" start landing, the fun is over, especially if it only sparks controversy which is removed from the movie's ultimate context.
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Dont worry, c.p., I will try to do my best, but you are right, it is very tricky to know what to post and what not to post, specially headlines. But as I said, dont worry, I will try to keep spoilers very clear in my stories. I understand your point of view, and every bit of feedback is important to me.
Gustavo
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TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
gl2000@uol.com.br
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Out of curiosity... just how reliable do you think IESB is, in general?
LLaP
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THAT is the Exploration that awaits you: not mapping stars or studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of Existence.
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That's all I can say...WOW!
Like Gustavo Said, most impressive. You should forward it to Paramount, maybe they'll use it?
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"Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."
-- John Wayne
"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence."
--Dr. Leonard McCoy
"I'm a politician, which means I am a cheat and a liar, and when I am not kissing babies I am stealing their lollipops."
-- Jeffrey Pelt, The Hunt for Red October
"Liberals, Intellectuals, Peacemongers, IDIOTS!!!!"
- General Decker, Mars Attacks
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires, both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
- Q from Q Who
...which was this, from a few weeks back.
[img=[IMG]http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff208/jasonspriggs/ST20082.jpg[/IMG]]
...which was this, from a few weeks back.
[img=]
I guess my fake one sheet was more of a prediction than i knew!
Harlan has posted a message on his site saying he has just been averted of this and would like to be paid for Paramount's use of his creation (if this is indeed the storyline).
"...they had damned well better lose the unilateral arrogance, get in touch with me, or my agent, Marty Shapiro, and be prepared to pay for the privilege of mining the lode I own."
http://harlanellison.com/heboard/unca.htm
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What I'd like to know is... 1) Has Ellison EVER been paid for the times the Guardian of Forever has been shown (TAS) or referenced (surely in other comic books or novels) since the original "City on the Edge of Forever" episode? If not, WHY exactly should he be paid for creating the Guardian? Which brings me to... 2) So is EVERY writer of STAR TREK contractually obligated to be paid for creating say, the Gorn, the Romulans, the Atavachron, the Holodeck, the Ferengi, etc., etc. if they appear in future episodes or movies?
Yes, Ellison undoubtedly created the Guardian... BUT, does he OWN it, or is it essentially the property of Paramount and "STAR TREK INC." (if there is such a thing)?
If they were doing an across-the-board REMAKE of "City of the Edge of Forever," then sure, maybe he'd have a case. But unless the Guardian has appeared in stories of his before 1967, then why does he think for a second he has a leg to stand on???
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Arguably, the Guardian is a character. And as such, he is entitled to character payments for the use of that character. No, he wouldn't get paid for its use in novels or comic books because the WGAw doesn't have jurisdiction over that arena.
Character payments are the reason T'Pau became T'Pol on ENT.
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Arguably, the Guardian is a character. And as such, he is entitled to character payments for the use of that character. No, he wouldn't get paid for its use in novels or comic books because the WGAw doesn't have jurisdiction over that arena.
Character payments are the reason T'Pau became T'Pol on ENT.
And the average person will wonder why the Romulans want to kill somebody who is already dead. Redoing the "most liked episode" is the best they could do? At least let Harlan Ellison write it.
I kind of like this idea, even though it's another alternate timeline story. Why? Because real theoretical science tells us that time travel is only possible if you travel back to a point when the time machine/portal was first created... The Guardian is ancient and therefore allows humans to travel into their own past.
Non-fans might think it's all a Stargate rip-off though lol - because of the wormhole/portal idea. (Funnily enough, one of the SG-1 DVD movies has an alternate timeline plot...will fans be complaining that this is a rehashed Trek plot? Probably not. Prometheus?!)
Finally, wouldn't Spock also be able to save Kirk's life on Veridian 3 if he's using the GoF?
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"I would be happy for Star Trek to come along decades later with a new group of minds. I'd love someone to say, 'Besides this one, Gene Roddenberry's was nothing!'" - Gene Roddenberry
"...I think it would be wonderful years from now to see Star Trek come back with an equally talented new cast playing Spock and Kirk and Bones and Scotty and all the rest, as they say tomorrow's things to tomorrow's generations..." - Gene Roddenberry
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Alternate timelines are hardly new. Lost In Space used them for God's sake. So hey, guess Trek did some more ripping. Wanna cop to that? Nah.
And, as Sam pointed out in just one example, Trek ripped, "Enemy Mine." The only thing missing was Centurion Bak'ra having a baby.
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"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.
"If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry
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Er...TOS was on at the same time as LiS. As for the other thing, I have no idea what you're talking about (although Enemy Mine ripped off Hell in the Pacific).
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"I would be happy for Star Trek to come along decades later with a new group of minds. I'd love someone to say, 'Besides this one, Gene Roddenberry's was nothing!'" - Gene Roddenberry
"...I think it would be wonderful years from now to see Star Trek come back with an equally talented new cast playing Spock and Kirk and Bones and Scotty and all the rest, as they say tomorrow's things to tomorrow's generations..." - Gene Roddenberry
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Just because someone started the time travel rumors and someone else repeated them, and then a third person repeated them, doesn't make it true. The rumor is still that, a rumor. The spoilers aren't helping. Your administrator should not allow them to be posted. It doesn't do any good for us to debate rumors and hearsay. Way too many people have responded to this thread with others stating how they might guess the rumors to be. They have no idea. It would be nice for those of us who don't want to know, for them not to post such rumors.
As for those who think this is a rip off of First Contact, note that it seems closer to The Voyage Home, and City on the Edge of Forever, itself.
Don't you want to be surprised? If you already conjecture what's going to happen, there is no point in seeing the movie.
So stop making up rumors about the plot of this movie and posting them as spoilers. Until the official people reveal the plot, it isn't the plot.
Chimera
"I've never understood Vulan mysticism, but if Spock has an eternal soul..."
Star Trek 3
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Sorry, Chimera, but those "rumors" have already been confirmed as true by 3 very reliable sites - Trek Movie, AICN and IESB. Those spoilers are for real. And it is TrekWeb duty to report them, as I said before.
Gustavo
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TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
gl2000@uol.com.br
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Wasn't me...!
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"I would be happy for Star Trek to come along decades later with a new group of minds. I'd love someone to say, 'Besides this one, Gene Roddenberry's was nothing!'" - Gene Roddenberry
"...I think it would be wonderful years from now to see Star Trek come back with an equally talented new cast playing Spock and Kirk and Bones and Scotty and all the rest, as they say tomorrow's things to tomorrow's generations..." - Gene Roddenberry
With this being the storyline, this seems much more like a one-off, where the timeline is not in 2255, but in 2385, it is a story which is around old Spock, and after he restores the timeline, he would be back in the post-TNG time. This still leaves the neo-TOS crew 130 years in the past.
That being said, it does sound promising. And it does provide a way in which Kirk could come back. Spock, through his exploration realizes that he has been alone and Kirk should not have died alone as he did. Spock could return to Veridian 3 and beam Kirk away as he plummets toward the ground.
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What excites me about this film is that we may see a script that returns us to the emotional bond shared by these characters, which was evident in the original series but moreso in all six of the original films. The friendship, the differences, the bond and the sacrifices they made and shared is something that's been sorely missing from Star Trek for many years.
STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE
McCoy: Spock, you haven't changed a bit. You're just as warm and sociable as ever.
Spock: Nor have you, doctor, as your continued predilection for irrelevancy demonstrates.
STAR TREK II:
"You green blooded, inhuman -- !"
"You're my superior officer. You are also my friend. I have been, and always shall be yours."
"Of my friend, I can only say this: Of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, his was the most... human.
STAR TREK III
Sarek: Kirk, I thank you. What you have done is...
Kirk: What I have done, I had to do.
Sarek: But at what cost ? Your ship. Your son.
Kirk: If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul.
McCoy: I'm gonna tell you something that I... never thought I'd ever hear myself say. But it seems I've... missed you. And I don't know if I could stand to lose you again.
STAR TREK IV
Amanda: Then you stand here alive because of a mistake made by your flawed, feeling, human friends. They have sacrificed their futures because they believed that the good of the one - you - was more important to them.
Kirk: You're half human, Spock, don't you have any goddamn feelings about that?
Federation Council president: Captain Spock, you do not stand accused.
Spock: I stand with my shipmates. Their fate shall be mine.
STAR TREK V
Kirk: I thought I was going to die.
Spock: Not possible. You were never alone.
Spock: I've lost a brother.
Kirk: I lost a brother once. I was lucky I got him back.
McCoy: I thought you said men like us don't have families.
Kirk: I was wrong.
Scotty: Uhura, I thought you were on leave.
Uhura: And I thought we were supposed to be going together.
Scotty: Oh, I can't leave her now when she needs me the most.
Uhura: I had a feeling you would say something like that, so I brought us... dinner.
Scotty: Oh, lassie. You're the most understanding woman I know.
STAR TREK VI
Kirk: Has it occured to you that this crew is due to stand down in three months? We've done our bit for king and country! You should have trusted me.
Kirk: Captain Sulu, you know you're violating orders just by talking to us --
Sulu: I'm sorry, Captain, your message is breaking up.
Kirk: Bless you, Sulu.
Captain Sulu: In range?
Helmsman Lojur: Not yet sir.
Captain Sulu: Come on, come on.
Helmsman Lojur: She'll fly apart!
Captain Sulu: Fly her apart then!
Kirk: You know what, Spock? Everybody's human.
Spock: I find that remark insulting.
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Couldn't agree more. The literary genius and dialogue of the TOS movies make TNG look like amateur hour.
Add to that...it was never really believable that an android could REALLY have a strong bond with humans the way they portrayed Data. While I like some of the action sequences and some of the stories of TNG...the family relationship was never there (like TOS) as long as they focused on Picard/Data.
However...I DID feel that family relationship angle at the end of "All Good Things" when they were all playing poker. It was a nice ending to the series and gave me hope for the movies.
If they would have given the rest of the crew some meaningful parts in the movies (instead of making it a Data/Picard action-a-thon), things might have been different. Riker was little more than a prop in most cases...MAJORLY under-used. Worf was the Enterprise pet, at best. I could go on...but it's pointless.
I hope the new movie is a return to good relational tension and smart dialogue. The plot devices mean very little to me if those two things are present.
it'd be just another rehashed Trek plot. It still is. Luckily it's Spock, Kirk et al and all that TOS continuity porn to keep the average audience interested. Of course remember that most people tuned out around 1994 so the plot probably doesn't ring so rehash to most. It's all going to be in the execution. Having Nimoy in the movie sure doesn't hurt.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
This spoilers remind me of the unfilmed script "Return to Forever", written by Tracy Torme for the second season of TNG. The movie era Spock uses the Guardian of Forever to go foward in time and meet Ambassador Spock of the TNG era on board the Enterprise-D. I dont remember much more about this script, but would be an amazing episode.
Gustavo
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TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
gl2000@uol.com.br
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It's also similar to TAS' 'Yesteryear' (?).
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"I would be happy for Star Trek to come along decades later with a new group of minds. I'd love someone to say, 'Besides this one, Gene Roddenberry's was nothing!'" - Gene Roddenberry
"...I think it would be wonderful years from now to see Star Trek come back with an equally talented new cast playing Spock and Kirk and Bones and Scotty and all the rest, as they say tomorrow's things to tomorrow's generations..." - Gene Roddenberry
Quote:"Romulan named Nero, finds the City on the Edge of Forever and uses the Guardian of Forever to go back in time and kill the person who has been the biggest thorn in the Romulan's side and is crucial to the success of the Federation and Starfleet"
If you play around with some of this you can replace the word "Romulan with Borg". Replace the word "Guardian Of Forever" with "sphere creating a temporal vortex". Replace the "thorn in the side" with just the Federation
This is nothing more than First Contact rehashed again.
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Your logic is faulty.
Three credible sources make a credible story, three 'credible' sources. This is merely a rumor passed on through three different sources, who are in question because they aren't official. Therefore, logic clearly dictates that this source is not credible in the first place. Why are you evfen debating this? Go out and do something today. Go to the mall. Go see a movie without Star Trek in it. Do anything. LOl.
Logic clearly dictates also that Chimera has nothing better to do today either.
Still, time travel has been the plot of too many episodes and movies. Can't Spock cameo just be him looking back on his career, and not be time travel?
Then again, that would be like Young Indiana Jones.
Rave on, MacDuff!
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Yeah, the one thing that's been giving me reservations all this time has been these time-travel rumors. As someone pointed out below, this is starting to reek more than a little bit of "fan-fiction." However, having said that, it's still all about the execution (if this is indeed the plot of TREK XI).
If Berman and Braga were still at the helm of this, I would have written off STAR TREK XI a long time ago and wouldn't even bother to catch this in the theaters. Hopefully, the new writers/producers/director will realize they have more to prove with the core TREK fans and try harder to make a film that can appeal to them without blatantly disregarding a lot of established continuity and running on automatic pilot, much like our old friends B&B did for numerous years.
Again, the basic premise of TREK XI--whether it's the reboot aspect or the time-travel story--has always been iffy with about half the TREK fans out there, but Abrams & Co. seem to have a MUCH stronger grasp of storytelling, characterization and hiring fantastic actors than Rick Berman & Co. ever did, so I'm MUCH more comfortable with them at the helm this time.
I'm still taking a wait-and-see-and-hope-for-the-best attitude on this. I will say that this is either shaping-up to be one of the greatest TREK films ever, or it could very well turn out to be a colossal blunder. Too early to tell for sure. But my gut is telling me it's the former.
...this idea actually sounds like it has some merit.
HOWEVER....
let us all remember that this is still not really confirmed as the real deal by Paramount. Leaks aside, we should all still wait until the movie premieres before imposing judgment.
I have to say, though, that involving the Guardian would remove all of the potential for technobabble. We don't know how the Guardian works - do we really need to? We didn't have to know during TOS, and we don't now. It's one of the Universe's great mysteries, and like humans everywhere else, we don't have to know how it works to know how to use it.
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A generation which ignores history has no past and no future. -- Robert Heinlein
PCLinuxOS
falcon
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It sound like a good idea,now we know who was driving the truck that night.Oh maybe Nero is spock grandson who want
revenge for dumping his grandmother at that klingon ship you all remember that episode were she offer spock every thing he wanted - " what will it be"? there maybe a relationship between Spock And Nero some how?perhaps,the scorn is spock not kirk,but by killing kirk will change
the future out come.This script sound more like J.J.Adama suicide note.I don't mean to be bad.-ok
Frankly, utilizing the Guardian of Forever is a stroke of genius. First, it's already been established. No "chronoton particles" or "chronoton wake" or some such to justify time travel. No techhobabble. Second, Old Spock has already visited the city on the edge of forever; it's going to be great to see him back there again. Imagine his return to that planet! Or the f/x that will be used to show the passage of time, etc. What if there is a security detail there to protect it? Scientists guarding it? Spock will have to elude them in order to use it.
Frankly, it's a brilliant move by the writers. TOS fans will return to this movie en masse to see the Guardian again.
Spock might even make multiple trips to the past in this ... i.e. go back once to save Kirk and fail. Try again ... meet Kirk's parents this trip, etc.
I was skeptical of another time travel show, but this idea has true merit.
(Sorry to gush like a fanboy here, but THE CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER is a favourite ep --- if not THE favourite ep --- of many.
Timmer33
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So the great JJ Star Trek movie, the one that everyone says will return ST to it's former glory is a rehash of a great episode written by a great (and well-respected) writer.
Lame. This is nothing new or original it's a cheap, reused, idea. C'mon, does this really sound so great? Sounds like fan-fiction.
Boo
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I agree. And it appears that old Spock changes in the timeline is how the movie will reboot the continuity as well as stick with canon. Abrams will create an “ultimate” Trek universe, allowing Abrams tomake changes in canon should he wish in future movies or series.
Gustavo
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TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
gl2000@uol.com.br
WHY did this have to leak?? I was really hoping that FOR ONCE the script wouldn't leak! Apparently some trekker don't understand how this will HURT the movie. The surprise party is ruined! Not good for anyone.
Actually I haven't read this spoiler till the end, and I don't want to. I want to wait and be excited and totally surprised and watch the movie with a fresh eye. But I'm guessing only a minority will keep their eyes away from the spoilers... argh.
Fortunately this is only RUMOR - maybe I should start my own rumors to make people confused. The more false rumors the better. Hide the truth in a web of lies. Maybe Abrams should release one or two decoys, too.
First..I like the basics of the story...but I have some issues though..
I don't really see Kirk as all that big of a thorn in the side of Romulans...Throwing Romulans in the mix is a way of justifying Spock being on Romulus and finding out the plan and traveling back.
The people who would really have it in for Kirk and make sense are the Klingons...right? But then you don't have the Romulus/Spock angle.
But the general public relate Kirk to Klingons as Holmes to Moriarty, Batman to Joker, Superman to Luther. So that part of the story idea doesn't come off smooth as silk for me.
POSSIBLE ALTERNATE ENDING - Old Spock and bad guy trip over the lip of the Guardian and fall onto Veridian III, bad guy falls to his death. Cut to Kirk thumbing the control button for the launcher...
Then we see Spock's hand reach out and grab Kirk's (don't show a reaction shot...just the hands clasp together) - cut to 10 years in the future - a nice contemporary apartment, Kirk and Spock drinking together (Romulan Ale no less). "Tell me again," Kirk says, "Just how many Romulan's did you have to kill so I could enjoy my retirement?" (a wry smile)
"Jim," Spock responds with mock indignation. "I could just as well left you on that planet to fall to your death."
Kirk is up, standing in front of the wet bar pouring a drink "Then who would you bicker with?" Kirk asks.
(doorbell chimes)
"That would be Dr. McCoy," Spock injects.
Kirk looks into the mirror and can see Spock letting in the elder Dr. McCoy (slightly blurred...too far away... Camera cuts back to Kirk looking into the mirror, a grin, from ear to ear. Holding up three glasses he turns, "To good friends!", holding out the glasses as the camera pulls back away from the three of them as they begin to touch glasses.....
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There are three times where Kirk has hurt the Romulans a great deal:
Balance of Terror: Kirk destroys the Romulan bird of prey, prevents war with the Federation.
The Enterprise Incident: Kirk steals the Romulan cloaking device, hurting the Romulan tactical advantage for the forseeable future. For all we know that scene in ST III where you can see the Klingon bird of prey's cloak shimmering is due to Starfleet being able to improve sensor quality to such an extent that they can easily spot flaws like that.
ST VI: Kirk uncovers the assassination plot that would put Klingons and the Federation at each other's throats, which would have benefited the Romulans to no end.
These are just the three incidents that we know about. For all we know Kirk and the Enterprise have messed with the Romulans at different times during the five year mission.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
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I understand the few incidents depicted in the show...my point was...as a general viewing public at large..the casual TOS fan...more familiar even with the movies than the show... the Klingons would definitely be the more recognizable nemesis to Kirk, easier for that viewer to understand the vengence factor of them going after him. His explicit hatred of them, etc. More run-ins there than you can shake a stick at.
Even the Romulan plot in 6 was swept away as a throw-away story element. And being even that Nemesis just delved into the Romulan elements, you would have thought they would "go back" to what has worked before...don't draw the Romulan parallels to Nemesis.
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For all we know Kirk and the Enterprise have messed with the Romulans at different times during the five year mission.
Or the second five-year mission post-TMP, or the later voyages of the Ent-Alpha...
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Growing up leads to growing old and then to dying,
And dying to me dont sound like all that much fun...
-John Mellencamp
Political tags-such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth-are never basic criteria.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
-Robert A. Heinlein
Samuel T. Cogley, Attorney at Law
So we may not be seeing flashbacks of Kirk and Spock's parents in their younger years, but rather may be seeing Nimoy's Spock interacting with them in some way to protect Kirk.
Interesting.....
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Scientists discover the world that exists;
engineers create the world that never was.
-Theodore von Kármán
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