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This is so stupid. When people talk about the "alexander courage theme" they are only talking about the first few seconds and notes of the ENTIRE theme. Even Jerry Goldsmith doesn't quote the ENTIRE theme with the singing. I hate it when even composers dunno wtf they are talking about! When you pay homage to a PART of an entire theme, say a part, not the ENTIRE theme. References to the Alex Courage theme should be about the ENTIRE length of the theme, not just the opening notes.
I was in orchestra for 8 years and I am a Star Trek fan. I can assure you, the composers know what they are talking about. :) Even if you only use PART of a very recognizeable theme, you have to call it something.
Now, as for why modern composers have not used the entire Courage theme, just the first eight notes for the most part? Because that's the only part of the score that isn't dated! It was written for a TV shopw in 1965, not a motion picture in 2007.
Like Jeffries' original Enterprise design, those first 8 notes are timeless. They make the PERFECT intro to for a show or film that features a Starship Enterprise. Even if a modern composer only uses that little bit of the theme, Alexander Courage must still be credited. The easiest way to reference that intro in the business is to call it the "Alexander Courage theme".
Now, I must say that other parts of the Courage score were sucessfully used in The Motion Picture when Kirk narrarates on Spock's contributions to engineering, and in Star Trek IV right after the Enterprise-A is revealed to us.
The only Trek films to NOT begin with Courages's theme were VI and Generations. As long as that theme is playing during the Paramount logo at the beginning? Goosebumps are assured :)
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-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.
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It's dated??
That is the laziest answer I have ever heard. The score was arranged to sound like that in the 60s. I have heard a JOHN WILLIAMS arrangement of the score, done about 10 years ago, that brings it totally into what you would consider 'post-Star Wars' sound.
If these guys can't sit down and make a new arrangement then they are not that good at all. Heck, I have heard JINGLE BELLS done by everyone from Elvis, to Davie Bowie, To Barry Manilow and Josh Groban, and George Strait, and all those different versions were...different...
The Alexander Courage theme, all of it, should be used.
Chaotic
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Agreed! And even ST:VI and Gens. incorporated the Courage Fanfare at some point (in Gens it was the VERY end of the end credits, but it was beautifully imposed over the Generations theme itself).
The booming french horns playing the Courage fanfare that became the trademark of every Goldsmith-penned ST score except TMP (i.e., F.F., F.C., Insur., and Nem.) is, to me, as quintessential to a Star Trek movie as the booming BbM chord at the beginning of every Star Wars movie.
The rest of the TOS theme can be incorporated but cannot be the main title theme. It is indeed too dated. I would vote for the Goldsmith TMP/TNG theme following the courage fanfare, exactly as ih the ST:V opening credits music. The Courage fanfare / Goldsmith TMP combo is so effective and links the entire TOS/Movie/TNG universe together that it really should be adopted as the standard much as John Williams' main title was virtually identical in all 6 SW movies.
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Again, lazy answer. IT can be re-arranged..if they can't do it it's because they suck. Is the Star Trek theme from TOS so unique it can't be re-arranged? No....it isn't. And, as I have said, it has been done already. The problem is that thse new writers/composers/conductors are just not that good to give it a new big symphonic sound...
Heck..I once watched BOSTON POPS do a kids show and John Williams used the Sesamee Street song to start it off and he gave IT a big symphonic sound..if you can make Sesemee Street big, you can do it for TOS's theme...
Chaotic
At last a bit of news come out that the entire fanbase can -- I hope! -- rally behind as one group.
Al
That's the one thing I'm most confident about, in regards to any and all things STAR TREK XI. My wife originally got me hooked on "Lost," and I remember how blown away I was by its score. I thought, "Whoever does this needs to be working in movies!" Sure enough, he went on to do THE INCREDIBLES, which could be my favorite film soundtrack of the '00s so far. He had an uncanny ability to successfully emulate the John Barry/James Bond scores of the '60s, and yet still make it sound snazzy and fresh, without simply imitating.
Just on this work alone, I firmly believe we're all in for a real treat from Michael Giacchino. He knows his stuff and I'm sure we're going to get the next, great, epic TREK score out of him. I can't sing his praises enough.
this is so stupid. when people talk about the "alexander courage theme" they are only talking about the first few seconds and notes of the ENTIRE theme. even jerry goldsmith doesn't quote the ENTIRE theme with the singing. i hate it when even composers dunno wtf they are talking about! when you pay homage to a PART of an entire theme, say a part, not the ENTIRE theme. references to the alex courage theme should be about the ENTIRE length of the theme, not just the opening notes.
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LET THEM DIE!!!
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Quote:
this is so stupid. when people talk about the "alexander courage theme" they are only talking about the first few seconds and notes of the ENTIRE theme. even jerry goldsmith doesn't quote the ENTIRE theme with the singing. i hate it when even composers dunno wtf they are talking about! when you pay homage to a PART of an entire theme, say a part, not the ENTIRE theme. references to the alex courage theme should be about the ENTIRE length of the theme, not just the opening notes.
I was in orchestra for 8 years. I am a Star Trek fan. The only part of the Courage theme that is NOT dated is the opening notes... it makes the PERFECT intro to any modern score for a show or film that features a Starship Enterprise. Even if a modern composer only used those famous first 8 notes? Alexander Courage must still be credited. The easiest way to reference that intro is by calling it the "Alexander Courage theme".
As for using his entire score for the opening credits? Haha, yeah right. It is far too "60's TV Show", and would look out of place with the wailing soprano et al. I must say that other parts of the Courage score were sucessfully used in The Motion Picture when Kirk narrarates on Spock's contributions to engineering, and in Star Trek IV right after the Enterprise-A is revealed.
The only Trek films to NOT being with Courages's theme open was VI and Generations. As long as that theme is playing during the Paramount logo at the beginning? Goosebumps are assured :)
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-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.
It sounds to me like this guy will do well with the score. He was inspired by the Trek composers we all love, Courage, Horner and Goldsmith. I think those of us who pay close attention to the score will catch those elements in this score. I think the Star Trek score will be in good hands and I look forward to hearing a fresh approach to it.
This is also big news in that the article confirms that the story we will be seeing is how the characters we love met. The movie IS about Kirk, Spock, McCoy and the others. This is reassuring.
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"It's not who I am inside, but what I do that defines me." -Batman
www.gracelockport.com
On Trek movie themes, I've always felt that Horner delivered the best treatment in TWOK... sufficient nods to Courage's signature tune but its own rich, heroic and almost nautical texture (which of course fitted in perfectly with so much else on the film).
I also liked Goldsmith's work in TMP, but after it was adapted for TNG it sorta entered 'overkill' mode and lost the novelty of hearing it a TMP rescreening.
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As I watched MI:III I kept thinking: "This sounds like Spock and Kirk fighting on Vulcan" or that was "the Constellation moving toward Doomsday's maw".
I think Giacchino used MI:III for Star Trek practice.
I wish I had the CD here so I could cite the tracks for you.
If nothing else is good about ST XI, I think we can count on a good score.
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~SurlyJason
www.damninteresting.com
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