The only reason there is a big stink over whether or not Shatner is going to be in this film, is because Nimoy is in it! If this were another 24th century adventure? There would be no Shatner "uprising". If this film were EXACTLY as planned, minus Nimoy making a cameo as an elderly Spock? Again, noone would mention Shatner being in this. People would just be fighting over whether they cast the young Kirk correctly.
Nimoy is playing a Vulcan who is still alive in the 24th century. If Kirk had survived Veridian III and returned to his timeline on the Enterprise-B? He'd still be alive granted, but in the year 2307... along with Sulu, Uhura, Chekov and a younger (read: 1990's) Spock. Putting him in this film considering how the actors have aged, and existing canon? Not a good idea.
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-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.
So, will portions of this movie take place post generations since Kirk will indeed be dead, and there will be no need for Shatner anyway. I'm thrilled at this idea, and Im so happy we have Nimoy to once again portray Spock on the big screen!
Quote:
I am sad that Bill Shatner is not in the movie, but like I said before, I have no interest in this movie. -- Gustavo
It is funny to me that people who "have no interest" in this film or "will not see it" or say that "this movie WILL fail if Shatner is not in it" -- seem to be the ones who are posting on these threads the most!
J.J. Abrams is smart. He knows that it's in his best interest to cater to the fans -- TO A POINT. Catering to every die-hard Trekkie's demand can lead to disaster, especially when their wants and needs are often times selfish and not in the best intrest of the LONG-TERM health of the franchise.
Star Trek needed two things by 2005.. time off and a return to something truly fresh. The days of repackaging the same tired storylines, characters and sets with new titles and special effects (See: Insurrection, Nemesis, and Enterprise) are over.
You need young, fresh-faced actors and a sense of honor to the original series (plural) that came before it. I am begging you J.J., PLEASE don't cave in to all these retarded "valentines" that a few diehard fans want so bad. (See: Throwing Shatner in this film as a ressurected elderly 153 year-old Kirk). Make this film, make it your own, and let's hope this is the adrenalene shot the franchise has desperately needed for the last decade.
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-- Steve
"If a sixth Star Trek television series is ever realized, it will be set in the new universe." -- cdydatzigs, June 15, 2009.
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Is it possible that Shatner's absence here to fore is disinformation, building up to a surprise appearence of Kirk when the film actually comes out?
Kinda like the Blue Harvest monika that was used while filming Return of the Jedi or Spock's misleading demise during the Kobyashi Maru test 4 minutes into ST II when it was leaked Spock would die in the film?
Good writers mislead an audience to entertain.
Personally i'm ok with it either way. We're just lucky Paramount is TRYING to breath some life into our old girl.
'I'd like to think there are always... possibilities.'
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Is it possible that Shatner's absence here to fore is disinformation, building up to a surprise appearence of Kirk when the film actually comes out?
Exactly. You win the internet.
But I'll even throw in +2 intertubes if you can help me convince some of these yay-hoos around here.
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
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"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
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You are wrong about me. Yes, I am not optimistic about the new movie and I really dont care for the recasting. I wish they got Shatner for a cameo, but since this is not going to happen, I am not losing my sleep over this. But the fact that I am not interested in the movie does not mean I want it to fail or I want it to be a bad movie. I will not boycott the movie because Shatner is not in it. Oh no, bring on the next phase of the Star Trek franchise - if the fans love it, it will be all right with me. If they get new fans, more power to them. But you just cant please everybody. And I am not pleased. Like someone said "cest la vie".
Gustavo
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TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
gl2000@uol.com.br
As far as I'm concerned they need to fill a few gaps in the canon department regarding kirk's demise, or is everyone forgetting the HUGE hole that an episode of TNG contradicts the events of Generations:
"The Enterprise? I should've known! I bet you Jim Kirk himself brought the old gal out of mothballs..."
- scotty
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It certainly makes sense to say that Relics demands that there is something more to the story after Generations that results in Kirk being alive, well and in the 23rd century when Scotty goes off on the Genolan.
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"Now the Senate is looking for moderate judges, mainstream judges. What in the world is a moderate interpretation of a constitutional text? Halfway between what it says and what we'd like it to say?" - Justice Scalia
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Not necessarily.
There was, after all, some mild pattern degredaton in the 70+ years in the buffer. Why couldn't that have resulted in some jumbled memories.
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"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.
"If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry
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Exactly. He was confused and disoriented, and when he heard the name "Enterprise" he immediately thought of Jim Kirk and his Big E, even though he was there to see Harriman take command of the Ent-B.
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Growing up leads to growing old and then to dying,
And dying to me dont sound like all that much fun...
-John Mellencamp
Political tags-such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth-are never basic criteria.
The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
-Robert A. Heinlein
Samuel T. Cogley, Attorney at Law
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That was the excuse we give to it, but that's the writer's way out of kirk being dead. There is a somewhat loose precedent for kirk to have returned. At any rate, Shatner could just be an extra for all I care, or a delusion, or Spock could be stuck on an Island with smoke monsters on it and Kirk could just be standing in the bushes talking to him. That seems to work for JJ's other project.
Honestly, I'm in the camp that won't care one way or the other if Kirk is in it just as long as the movie is GOOD.
WE could whine and cry just as much that PICARD or Janeway or God-Sisko isn't in it b/c it does include some of older spock .... I'm sure they might try to work in a TNG era cameo in there somewhere.
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Quote from Kortas:
That was the excuse we give to it, but that's the writer's way out of kirk being dead.
As good as.
Storytelling doesn't mention a pistol under the pillow unless it serves a purpose.
There were unlimited ways to convey that Scotty was a foggy relic. Speaking of Kirk in the present tense bought another plot.
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Exclusive -- "Mirror, Mirror" -- Marlena Moreau
How do you get people talking about a tired movie franchise? Tell the fans of said franchise that their "icon" will not be in the film. Then, have him publicly "pout" about it.
We are all being had, my friends. Whether he ends up in the film or not (and I do think he will be in there in a small role, and it will be a complete surprise to the audience, generating even more hype) this is a publicity stunt orchestrated to make us talk up the film even more.
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
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Quote from The Wrath of Lemmiwinks:
We are all being had, my friends.
If I were JJ, I wouldn't be in any hurry to silence the "pout" of a showman like Shatner.
We know that Shat and JJ arrived at an understanding: They both want elder Kirk in the story, and they both want it done in a way that makes sense. This intel comes directly from both Shat and JJ: Shatner told Craig Ferguson about his face-to-face dialog with JJ, last year. This corroborates the statement made by JJ about Shat at Comic-Con this summer.
Shatner can honestly be "disappointed" that he isn't yet signed up, but he can also be secure in what has already been said to him by JJ.
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Ubuntu Review @ Laptop Magazine
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The up-in-arms attitudes around these parts to me proves that "everything is going as planned."
Cue the diabolical laughter.
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
-
Quote:
How do you get people talking about a tired movie franchise? Tell the fans of said franchise that their "icon" will not be in the film. Then, have him publicly "pout" about it.
We are all being had, my friends. Whether he ends up in the film or not (and I do think he will be in there in a small role, and it will be a complete surprise to the audience, generating even more hype) this is a publicity stunt orchestrated to make us talk up the film even more.
I don't know if it's a publicity stunt. So many people seem to have forgotten that Kirk was killed off in Generations, a film produced 13 years ago. So he simply can't be in the new movie.
However, now that you talk about "publicly pouting" I do clearly recall at least two previous occasions in which this occurred. When Michael Keaton was cast as Batman, Adam West went on a tear about how he should have been cast in the role. More recently there were all the interviews in which Pierce Brosnan discussed being passed over for Casino Royale in favor of Daniel Craig. But neither really helped the films any; in fact, just the opposite in the case of Brosnan as (through no design of his own) it contributed to the whole "Craig Not Bond" fiasco that resulted in a bunch of fans being humiliated when Casino Royale ended up being the most critically acclaimed Bond film of all time. Similarly, those who opposed Keaton as Batman got egg on their face when the first two Batman films did so well.
Al
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So many people seem to have forgotten that Kirk was killed off in Generations, a film produced 13 years ago. So he simply can't be in the new movie.
Nobody's forgotten. I fail to see how if they're doing a prequel movie, which by its very definition takes place before Kirk's death, he cannot be in the film. If the entire movie takes place before the events of Generations, what would prevent a presumed scene with Shatner also taking place before Kirk's death?
Additionally, who's to say Shatner would have to play Kirk in said film? I'd likely be happier if he was worked into the film subtly and not in the role of the esteemed captain. And if it can't be done cleverly and/or logically, I'd rather they left him out altogether.
However, now that you talk about "publicly pouting" I do clearly recall at least two previous occasions in which this occurred.
I agree with your entire second paragraph. However, these are Star Trek fans we're talking about here. And I also truly believe that in both of those instances you bring up, the actors genuinely felt slighted.
I really get the impression that there's a wink and a nudge going on here that's not getting translated to these reports very well. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I smell a hype-machine.
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
I still believe there is some truth to the "time travel rumors" posted at AICN.
Gustavo
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TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
gl2000@uol.com.br
I am sad that Bill Shatner is not in the movie, but like I said before, I have no interest in this movie.
Gustavo
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TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
gl2000@uol.com.br
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What kind of movie did you want it to be?
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"One ought not to believe anything, save that which can be proven by nature and the force of reason." - Frederick II, German King and Holy Roman Emperor
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No prequel, no remake, no reboot, no reimaging. You got the idea.
Gustavo
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TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
gl2000@uol.com.br
Quote:
"The actor figures the movie forces have solved the problem of dealing with the aging version of his iconic character, James T. Kirk, by having a 'dead Kirk.'"
Cmdr. Murdock: "Lieutenant, how would you handle this?"
Lt. Pervis: "We could try ignoring it, sir."
Patience, Bill. The "movie forces" have had a dead Kirk since 1994.
And now for something completely different...
Actor Malcolm McDowell, who played homicidalsonofabitch Soran in Generations, will host a special tribute to William Shatner at the Jules Verne Adventure Film Festival, where Shat will be presented with a Lifetime Achievement Award. December 9th, at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles.
Catch Biography "William Shatner" on A&E this Saturday, Sept. 15 at 8am/7C.
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Ubuntu Review @ Laptop Magazine
"Suddenly, there was a terrible roar all around us..."
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The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
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Another really good movie.
Sure you heard that, when Hunter S. Thompson died, Johnny Depp had his ashes shot out of a cannon per HST's request. Apparently they became really good friends while JD was researching his role.
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A generation which ignores history has no past and no future. -- Robert Heinlein
PCLinuxOS
falcon
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Yeah, I'm waiting for the wailing and screaming and chest thumping. The exclamations that JJ is the Anti-Christ, that "true fans" will not go to see this film because Shatner isn't in it, etc.
I, on the other hand, am ecstatic.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
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It's disgusting. Abrams isn't the anti-Christ, but he is making a huge mistake. And all the talk about him "desperately" trying to get Shatner in the movie is a load of crap. The bottom line is that without Shatner in the movie, my interest in it is gone. I may not be in the majority, but there are a lot of others who feel the same, and that will affect grosses.
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I still think we're all being had. This "pouting" by Shatner is nothing more than a publicity stunt. And boy oh boy, from the way it's got us all talking, it sure is working...
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
-
Quote from StillKirok:
It's disgusting. Abrams isn't the anti-Christ, but he is making a huge mistake.
Not yet.
Shatner only says he hasn't yet been invited. That's nothing new. It's only September, and a bookend role doesn't need to be shot (or written) at the start of filming.
Until word comes from Team Abrams, give JJ credit for knowing that Kirk's reputation is of cheating death.
Besides... What Nimoy wants for ST:XI, Nimoy will get. ;-)
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Ubuntu Review @ Laptop Magazine
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I understand the disappointment, as I grew up with Shatner as Kirk. And unless they find some acting genius out there, he stays Kirk to me.
JJ was really up against it here. No one gave a crap about Star Trek. Then everyone was pissed that it was a reboot. He tries to do the right thing and hire Nimoy. And THEN people are pissed about Shatner. He's in a tough spot.
My theory: Spock's presence in the film is not just a quick meaningless cameo. I think its a plot point that is so complicated, probably Vulcan mystic something or other, that putting Shatner in the film as Kirk would mean huge rewrites, which I'm sure the Paramount execs said no to, due to schedules and cash.
JJ's the producer of the film, but he answers to the same Paramount exec types that have made other crazy decisions about Trek.
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So Nimoy's involvement is likely going to be some meaningless cameo. What did you think Shatner's involvement might be outside of a meaningless cameo as well? And how would a meaningless cameo really impact on the quality of the movie?
In the end the strength of this movie, this potential franchise, will be on the actors who are playing young Kirk and Spock. Old Kirk and Spock will have no bearing on it.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
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Quote:
In the end the strength of this movie, this potential franchise, will be on the actors who are playing young Kirk and Spock. Old Kirk and Spock will have no bearing on it.
Exactly. There's no reason to go ballistic because Shatner is not going to be in this movie. And really, are people so desperate to have Kirk that they would be willing to sacrifice a potentially good movie for the sake of a few lines? The DirecTV commercials would probably have more meaning than what would have been written for Shatner. I am therefore quite thankful.
I want this movie to be good and not just some cameo porn flick.
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There once was a man named Scorned,
whose posts were more offensive than porn.
He posted one too many,
got kicked out on his fanny,
and all the while he had been warned.
(2)
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