Huh? Going back has been successful...too | Report this post to moderator
By: Glassman Cometh (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:37:56 on Jun 01, 2007

The Voyage Home, though not my favorite TREK film, was a big hit...big! It went backward in time... And, in my opinion, The Wrath of Khan is the best movie, and it is centered around a character (Khan) from an episode 15 years earlier. No new idea there...

And the best TNG movie was FIRST CONTACT, again another reach back in time. DS9's own episode "TRIAL AND TRIBULATIONS", a favorite of mine, definately didn't go forward...heck, even the "THE WAY OF THE WARRIOR" from DS9 borrowed from the past (Klingons are bad guys) to bring some ommmph to DS9...

So, sorry Mr. Behr. usually I agree with you, but on this one I do not. Borrowing from past success isn't a bad idea if done properly. Even your own 4400 touches on story aspects from other famous movies or tv-shows.

Chaotic

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• RE: Huh? Going back has been successful...too | Report this post to moderator
  By: wingsabre (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:01:24 on Aug 12, 2007

  Quote:
  The Voyage Home, though not my favorite TREK film, was a big hit...big! It went backward in time... And, in my opinion, The Wrath of Khan is the best movie, and it is centered around a character (Khan) from an episode 15 years earlier. No new idea there...
  
  And the best TNG movie was FIRST CONTACT, again another reach back in time. DS9's own episode "TRIAL AND TRIBULATIONS", a favorite of mine, definately didn't go forward...heck, even the "THE WAY OF THE WARRIOR" from DS9 borrowed from the past (Klingons are bad guys) to bring some ommmph to DS9...
  
  So, sorry Mr. Behr. usually I agree with you, but on this one I do not. Borrowing from past success isn't a bad idea if done properly. Even your own 4400 touches on story aspects from other famous movies or tv-shows.
  
  Chaotic
  
  He didn't mean go back as in literally going back in time. I dont think Behr has anything against time travel, his 4400 series has aspects of that already. I don't think he's talking about just going back to TOS and recasting characters, I think he's saying Trek is getting stale because they've gone back to the same formulas, with every episode in essence the same.
  
  Voyager had no character development, and simply had the alien of the week. Enterprise was an attempt to first use the formula of Kirk, Spock and Bones. There were other characters who were also interesting, but they never developed them. Fans of TOS enjoyed Scotty, Sulu, etc... Enterprise didn't give some of the cast members lines, and was in essence trying too hard to copy the past instead of honoring it.
  
  Some would say that DS9 was too dark, but I think it was essentially one of the most representative aspects of Roddenberry's dream of the future. Roddenberry introduced the Klingon's for a reason. In TOS they were a threat to the federation, and battles were fought to preserve it. IMO he saw the future as optimistic, but when freedom requires preservation heroes arise to protect it. It was his mentality as a WWII veteran.
  
  In TOS many of the villains were humans, even though the future was seen as optimistic, there were characters like Harry Mudd who represented the negative aspects of humans. TNG and VOY was at a different century and showed humans that are better, and the bad guys were more alien than human. Even so, humanity is never perfect, and DS9 showed that. It showed that good and freedom must some times be defended through war, as as people die, life still goes on.
  
  Nemesis was Paramounts attempt at making another wrath of khan, but it failed because their khan was not a real khan. In star trek ii, the villain was already complex and the audience knew about the villain before hand. In Nemesis, too much of the villain had to be introduced. It would have been a much better movie if they some how brought back Lore. Hopefully, they'll do another Trek movie, with the return of Data, and Lore.

  
  

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• RE: Huh? Going back has been successful...too | Report this post to moderator
  By: guardian452 (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:41:37 on Jun 01, 2007

  Ummm.... he's not talking about going back in time like going through a vortex or warping around the sun to literally go back in time. He's saying the franchise is falling apart and the last saving grace is to go back, as in go back to the original series and start recasting characters. Characters who are proven to have worked. He is saying that he sees that as a weakness and, as I'm reading into what he's saying, kind of desperate on Paramount's part.

  
  

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Hit Series | Report this post to moderator
By: Jean-Luc (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:14:06 on Jun 01, 2007

I watched The 4400 steadily at first, then caught most of it when it came back. But now it seems like a year or more since I've seen it and at this point I don't have any interest in trying to get caught up again. I didn't even know the show was still being produced.

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"Outer Space: The Last Frontier.
These are the trips of the Star Trek Enterprise. Its five year plan calls for us to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly fly where no man has gone in space. Live long, and be happy."

Patrick Stewart--SNL, Stardate 9402.05

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Fantastic Quote | Report this post to moderator
By: timmer33 (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:52:50 on Jun 01, 2007

"The safer the franchise got, the weaker it got."

Truer words have never beeen spoken about Trek.

Except maybe: "Geez, Voyager sure did suck."

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Boldly Going Back | Report this post to moderator
By: c.p. (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:41:56 on Jun 01, 2007

Again, returning to the original characters isn't "going back" anymore than returning to a formula that hasn't worked for over 10 years is "going forward". Centering this movie around DS9 or VOY characters, or creating all new ones would, I believe, be seen as "going back" by the general audience and critics alike. Whether it be another chapter of a spin-off they've already dismissed or yet another whole NEW spin-off, it's more of the same post-NG formula they've already tuned out. Fans to a large degree have done the same. "Going back" in this case is Star Trek's best option for going forward--boldly where no Trek has gone before.

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Back to the Future!!! | Report this post to moderator
By: Brannon (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:14:00 on May 31, 2007

Nothing inherently wrong with going back to the future. It's done all the time with a variety of results....music, advertising, business. All of these have at one time or another returned to a previously successful point and tried to recreate the magic.

Hopefully, in this instance, it will be the rebirth of a franchise.

In one of my favorite books, Inigo and Fezzik discuss what Vizzini has told them if they lose their way, "Fool, fool, back to the beginning is the rule."

Made sense to them, makes sense to me.

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"With hope and virtue, let us brave once more the icy currents, and endure what storms may come. Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back nor did we falter; and with eyes fixed on the horizon and God's grace upon us, we carried forth that great gift of freedom and delivered it safely to future generations."

"This is our chance to answer that call. This is our moment. This is our time - to put our people back to work and open doors of opportunity for our kids; to restore prosperity and promote the cause of peace; to reclaim the American Dream and reaffirm that fundamental truth - that out of many, we are one; that while we breathe, we hope, and where we are met with cynicism, and doubt, and those who tell us that we cant, we will respond with that timeless creed that sums up the spirit of a people-Yes We Can."

"Yeah, I don't do cowering."-Barack Obama

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