I am not the smartest guy in the world, nor do I have as many trivia facts memorized as some people. But, I did just watch Enterprise, DS9 and then Voyager all back to back after I bought the boxed sets.
I enjoyed them all. I was sad when there were no more episodes to watch, from each series.
I am just learning about the background stuff. The politics and complaining. One thing seems loud and clear to me.
Some people feel more intelligent if they can NIT-PICK and find fault in something. I have read through tons and tons of bitching, complaining, whinning, and second guessing the shows, writters, movies, and actors. Wanna know why we have no current Star Trek, and no new Star Trek any time soon? Blame OURselves.
We have all heard the old saying, if you haven't got anything good to say then don't say anything at all. I think that would be good advice for about 95% of the forums that fans and critics are posting and have been posting for years.
I think we have to let a little slide. Yes, there are a few first officers that I really don't like, and some other stuff I could complain about. But I would rather everyone knew something more important. I LOVE STAR TREK. I wish I was there, where they are, living the adventures they are living. Learning the things they are learning about space, aliens and life even. I wish I had a space ship, or failing that at least I was part of a crew that got to do and see such exciting stuff.
I have read pro and anti Canon discussions. I will say they both have merit. So, my feeling on Canon is it is a good thing, but leave room for things to change a little. Life does change over time, and so would aspects of how things were done in Star Fleet etc.
Unlike fans of other things/movies/series it seems to me that Star Trek fans can be selfdestructive. By Nit-picking we are ruining the experience. As a side note, I think it is sad that in the long run this is ruining peoples careers. Actors, writters and directors.
I actually came up with an idea for a new series, and as I was doing research on it, I came to forums on different sites. It didn't take me long to realize one thing. No Star Trek idea will work. Not mine. Not anyones. Because as fans we are too critical. We bitch about everything.
If you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything at all.
A fan.
DigitalwolfQuote:
"...and therefore we are going anyway."
I wasn't enthusiastic. It seemed like Erik Jendresen wanted to kill what little is left of Star Trek's message - the one that says, the future is a place where we would want to be.
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And yet the script was Berman-approved. So many keeping him around wouldn't have guaranteed the kind of Trek we've seen before. But I doubt it would have resulted in any improvement, either.
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It seemed like Erik Jendresen wanted to kill what little is left of Star Trek's message - the one that says, the future is a place where we would want to be.
You've got to remember even Gene Roddenberry didn't think there was going to be a smooth transition to the world he created. In TOS there were plenty of references to World War III, the Eugenics Wars, and all sorts of other violent times to come. Despite all that he had hope for humanity's future. So I don't think showing humanity's dark side necessarily has to negate the promise of Star Trek. On the contrary, showing humanity's dark side and dealing with it can strengthen Trek's ultimate message. And it just might lead to more entertaining, original stories, too.
The dark side won't kill Star Trek, but cliches and lack of originality will (and nearly have).
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Humanitys dark side is overrated. A lot of people love dark movies. The uglier the better. And these people are the ones you want to attract? I wouldn't want a dark movie especially now that Star Trek is trying to find its own footing again, and regain an audience. I'm thinking of the long term consequences. What development will that set in motion?
That's a real shame. The Erik Jendresen script sounded like it had
real promise. It was a total departure from what had been donw in a
Trek movie up until now. A whole new crew. Multiple ships instead of
one. A different time frame. It sounded like exactly the kind of
departure the series needed. It could have been great.
I've talked to Doug, before I was trying to pitch a Star Trek script (unsuccessfully) that I had written. I talked with him for a while. He gave me the scooop on what's going on with the new film, this was last year exactly, he was a pretty good guy, if he said it, I'd accept it as fact.
I dont understand Star Trek is a great francise,dont tell me Berman cant come up with stories????????????? I mean there is Star DS9 movies to be made, Star Trek Voyager Movies to be made,and Enterprise Movies to be made, and room for a few prequels,,,,enough for 10 more yrs of TREK, which means MONEY for PARAMOUNT whats up BERMAN< Brain not working????How about a story bringing WILL WHEATON back from Learning with the travler??? or Have a away team go back to 2006 and stop terriosts from killing the Father of the Man who creates STAR FLEET Academy... TONS of story lines.... Get TO WORK......
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Sorry, I hit post twice....Ignore
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"Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."
-- John Wayne
"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence."
--Dr. Leonard McCoy
"I'm a politician, which means I am a cheat and a liar, and when I am not kissing babies I am stealing their lollipops."
-- Jeffrey Pelt, The Hunt for Red October
"Liberals, Intellectuals, Peacemongers, IDIOTS!!!!"
- General Decker, Mars Attacks
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires, both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
- Q from Q Who
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You ask a good question. Why can't Berman come up with a good story? Well, who cares! The simple fact is that he just is not up to the job and he needs to leave before another Star Trek project should go forward.
Yes, are correct that there's a lot of stories out there that would be great to see either on the big screen or on TV. I would enjoy some kind of DS9 follow-on. I would even consider stories of Capt. Sulu and the Starship Excelsior. Just let someone other than Berman work on them.
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"Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."
-- John Wayne
"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence."
--Dr. Leonard McCoy
"I'm a politician, which means I am a cheat and a liar, and when I am not kissing babies I am stealing their lollipops."
-- Jeffrey Pelt, The Hunt for Red October
"Liberals, Intellectuals, Peacemongers, IDIOTS!!!!"
- General Decker, Mars Attacks
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires, both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
- Q from Q Who
Without knowing the facts, this article is very hard to believe if this alleged person is still indeed employed to work directly with Berman or Paramount.
It would be pretty ballsy to make negative statements about episodes the Berman apparently co-wrote, and unauthorized statements about Trek, etc, and then have to show up the next day this week to continue working for Berman... applying black spraypaint to his bald spot, etc.
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It seems obvious that Paramount is going to wait until Berman has left the building before they consider a new Trek venture. I think we have all figured this out long ago. One question I have is when exactly does Berman's contract expire? When this day comes, assuming Paramount doesn't bring him back...eeek!, then I will begin to get excited.
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"Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."
-- John Wayne
"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence."
--Dr. Leonard McCoy
"I'm a politician, which means I am a cheat and a liar, and when I am not kissing babies I am stealing their lollipops."
-- Jeffrey Pelt, The Hunt for Red October
"Liberals, Intellectuals, Peacemongers, IDIOTS!!!!"
- General Decker, Mars Attacks
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires, both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
- Q from Q Who
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You can search TrekWeb with google:
On the search field write this:
"rick berman" contract expires OR expire OR paramount OR UPN OR viacom site:trekweb.com
Results: 656
The closest that I found was this:
03.02.2006.: Brannon Braga Says "Enterprise" Was Not a Failure
The contract for Berman will expire at the end of this year (at the end of 2006) and in the linked article/comment harbour, look for text "will be back" for info about Braga.
Don't forget that Paramount recently acquired DreamWorks. Many Paramount execs are being replaced in favor of DreamWorks people. This may have had some influence on the Trek situation. (Not that I'm complaining, I just think we don't have all the facts.)
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The supervisor is Verizon!
In November Garret had come out and said the Paramount would not be doing any movie idea that Rick could come up with. All the talk of another movie has been nothing but busy work for him until his contract is up. As soon as that happens, and another person in at the helm of the franchise, expect announcements about a new series and/or movie within 6 weeks.
TEG
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The Tegian Zone • Grow My MiniCity
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Mirabello reported that the Erik Jendresen Star Trek The Beginning script had been scrapped.
Such comments align with speculation that has been around for some while: This particular Trek XI script was just a chew toy that Paramount tossed to Berman to keep him preoccupied while his contract with the Trek franchise expires.
Methinks Paramount isn't quite as stupid or evil as some fans want to believe.
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STAR TREK "USS Enterprise" 3-Piece Model Kit Set #1 (NCC 1701,A,D)
Then can some kind person leak the script so that we can see what we would have thought of it?
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Scientists discover the world that exists;
engineers create the world that never was.
-Theodore von Kármán
You blame Berman for the cancellation of Enterprise, but yet you seem to conveniently forget that back in the day, good ol' Gene Roddenberry himself was maliciously slandered and villified by the fans for the cancellation of TOS.
So who understands Trek now? Or are you actually going to say that Roddenberry doesn't understand Trek because his show was abruptly cancelled?
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"We are ALL Hezbollah."
-- Data's stirring rallying cry from his famous post, and quite possibly the next catchy slogan in the elections this November
LET THE TRUTH BE HEARD!!!
I'm Berman My Man, official Voice of the Great Left(TM) and I approve of this message.
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It is commonly known that Gene didn't have that much to do with the third season of TOS. Fred Freiberger took over the Executive Producer role...and Freiberger is known as a "show killer". Every series he's ever worked on has been during the last season...
So, I don't think that counts against Roddenberry -- unless you want you want to blame him for pretty much leaving the series.
Who understands Trek now? I am sure there are lots of people in the industry who are fans who understand Star Trek and could do an effective job with it.
Manny Coto comes immediately to mind. I am sure there are others.
IM
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Quote from The Imagemaster:
Manny Coto comes immediately to mind.
What Manny Coto has shown in ENT S4 is how to implement Braga's Theorem: "There's a great phrase on the Internet called 'Continuity Porn', which means that there are continuity fetishists out there. People whom if you just mention a name from TOS, it's a cause for celebration."
Coto didn't do anything that a Mike Sussman or Andre Bormanis or Dr. Seuss couldn't have done with the same TOS name-dropping orders from B&B.
Mirabello is correct in saying "The franchise needs a totally new creative team". No one from Berman's writing staff should be brought back for the next Trek series or movie.
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STAR TREK "USS Enterprise" 3-Piece Model Kit Set #2 (NCC 1701-B,C,E)
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Sorry, this post was meant to be a direct reply to Imagemaster below.
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"We are ALL Hezbollah."
-- Data's stirring rallying cry from his famous post, and quite possibly the next catchy slogan in the elections this November
LET THE TRUTH BE HEARD!!!
I'm Berman My Man, official Voice of the Great Left(TM) and I approve of this message.
than that shown by fans, who have been vitriolic without ANY remotely resembling understanding of what goes into a Star Trek production. Saying "Oh, yeah, sure, I can do that" is really a generic copout. Yeah, I could do brain surgery too, 'cause I saw this once on ER. And if something goes wrong, then yeah, of course I knew better. This is analogous to what Star Trek fans are.
Berman is a lot of things, but has anyone ever considered that maybe he is not the "end all, be all"? What about someone higher up in Paramount? Maybe there is someone else who is in control, and Berman is only the messenger. Besides, history will show that Berman is not as bad as the fans have made him out to be.
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"We are ALL Hezbollah."
-- Data's stirring rallying cry from his famous post, and quite possibly the next catchy slogan in the elections this November
LET THE TRUTH BE HEARD!!!
I'm Berman My Man, official Voice of the Great Left(TM) and I approve of this message.
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berman is awful - period
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Without any supporting evidence, you are really just pissing in the wind. But to each his own- you are certainly entitled to your opinion, even if you don't have a shred of concrete evidence.
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"We are ALL Hezbollah."
-- Data's stirring rallying cry from his famous post, and quite possibly the next catchy slogan in the elections this November
LET THE TRUTH BE HEARD!!!
I'm Berman My Man, official Voice of the Great Left(TM) and I approve of this message.
They are waiting for his contract to run out so they can make a film with Singer,Stewart and Shatner.
Not that I particularly want to hear from Berman, but does anyone else find it odd that all of a sudden we're hearing from his "personal assistant" regarding the state of Star Trek.
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"Oh relax, Cupcake. It was a joke."- James T. Kirk
Thank God, thank God, thank GOD this isn't happening. From everything I read, this would have been a disaster and killed Trek forever.
Star Trek needs a serious rest...and then a serious reimagining by someone who UNDERSTANDS what made Trek great. Particularly the original series. The original series should be the blueprint for any and all Treks. When I sit down and watch TOS DVDs I am still amazed at the excellent writing and character dynamics. NOTHING since has even come close.
Any new Trek needs to get back to the basics of telling exciting stories of exploration and action adventure -- with a small dose of having something to say about the human condition.
Also, any new Trek should take into account current technology and project that far into the future. There are things in REAL science that are hardly ever if at all ever presented in science fiction TV.
Finally, here's hoping Berman & Co. ARE off Trek -- it's about damned time if so.
He should never have been put in charge of the franchise -- Deep Space Nine notwithstanding.
IM
Rick who?
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To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And, at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between, plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big 'thing.' This is truth, to me.
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[But] there’s a chance that someone else at Paramount is planning something huge and keeping us out of the loop.
Now wouldn't that be nice :)
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"Ich habe es satt allein aufzustehn // als Erster zu sehn // Dass ich noch leb"
"I'm fed up with getting up alone // To be the first to see // That I'm still alive"
- Rosenstolz, "Ich will mich verlieben"
(because I believe that "making more now" doesn't automatically mean "more of the same" if you put the right creative people on it)...but this development does provide assurance of one thing: Star Trek, when it comes back, will come back the way it needs to come back: on television, where it has more of an opportunity to rebuild the fanbase.
Let Star Trek rest for a while. It is tired and worn out. We have hundreds of hours of Trek to keep us entertained. Making more of the same just cheapens it, so let it REST.
What a surprise! I think we all knew this was all a pile of bullshit. I mean really. First we had a Star Trek movie about the Romulan Wars, then about Starfleet Academy, then with the TNG crew, and then a mixed crew.
There never was no script other than a bunch of doodling on a napkin. This was all bullshit to begin with and we all knew it.
However, I have total faith in the future that some fans will put something together that's far better than anything put out by Berman and friends (I keep seeing some sort of TOS relaunch with new uniforms appearing).
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"We're starfleet officers....weird is part of the job!"
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Why can't Paramount just buy-out Berman's contract? It can't be that huge by industry standards.
Answer: They could.
So I think nothing will immediately happen just because his contract expires.
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In the battle between "good" and "evil," "evil" usually wins, unless "good" is very, very careful."
Dr. Leonard McCoy.
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^^ Unfortunately, it's in part the "we can do it better" attitude that led to the death of Trek. And guaranteed it'll also happen with BSG if it's around for too long. The new Doctor Who needs to really keep the bar raised because fan-made adventures have long surpassed the quality of what the original series offered.
In terms of the denial, this should come as no surprise. Berman himself - and to his credit - has never said more than "we're kicking some ideas around". It's others who have made the claim that Trek XI is about to go into production -- up to and including giving it a title.
Will Trek return? Yes. Will it resemble Roddenberry's Star Trek? No (which begs the question why bother calling it Star Trek). IMO we won't see it for a number of years. Doctor Who was away for 16 years before its continuation; BSG was away for 25 years before its reimaging. Both have been spectacular successes critically and in terms of ratings (I read somewhere the new Who is getting higher ratings than it has in 30 years). Paramount can't be oblivious to this; they'll wait a comparable amount of time before trying again, by which time all past series (yes including the unfairly hated Enterprise) will be considered Classic TV and nostalgia will drive a revival or reboot or reimagining.
And then we'll get a piece of crap like the "reimagined" I Spy or Wild Wild West and that'll be the end of Star Trek... at least that's my fear.
Al
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"And then we'll get a piece of crap like the "reimagined" I Spy or Wild Wild West and that'll be the end of Star Trek... at least that's my fear."
Not necessarily. It depends on who does it.
One problem with waiting 15 or 25 years to do Trek again is that the longer we wait the less likely someone will be in charge that understands Star Trek. Right now, there are still people who grew up on TOS out there that could produce a quality show.
I am not advocating one that tries to COPY the original series, but one that at least has the same level of writing and character development -- and the same feel.
What's missing from Trek now is a sense of exploring the unknown. The "sense of wonder" is gone. That is, unless we are "wondering" why Rick Berman is still on Star Trek. We need to get back the spirit of exploration and sense of wonder that was present in the original series and even most of TNG.
IM
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Not necessarily. It depends on who does it.
This is true. See BSG for example, or the new Doctor Who. It can be done, but the problem is Hollywood is too interested in capitalizing on the name than finding those right people.
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One problem with waiting 15 or 25 years to do Trek again is that the longer we wait the less likely someone will be in charge that understands Star Trek. Right now, there are still people who grew up on TOS out there that could produce a quality show.
Again that's not necessarily so, either. The current creative team for Doctor Who weren't born when that series debuted, yet they've done pretty well. And we're fast getting to the point where the type of people who would be put in charge of Trek would likewise not have yet been born when TOS was on the air.
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What's missing from Trek now is a sense of exploring the unknown. The "sense of wonder" is gone. That is, unless we are "wondering" why Rick Berman is still on Star Trek. We need to get back the spirit of exploration and sense of wonder that was present in the original series and even most of TNG.
But there are those who feel that sense of wonder did exist, certainly in Enterprise if not Voyager.
Berman's assistant is correct, however, in his statement that a new creative team is needed. Whether one likes Berman or hates him, the fact is the fan base has decided to reject him. Just as they rejected John Nathan-Turner in Doctor Who. Just as they rejected Freddy Freiberger both in TOS and Space:1999. No matter what they tried, people pissed on it. So therefore for the good of the franchise a new name is needed to be attached to the franchise -- even though that new name is guaranteed to be criticised and scorned because that is what Trek fandom has become.
Mark my words. If Joss Whedon or Ronald Moore were to drop their current projects and take over Trek, they would be pissed on like no tomorrow.
But the bottom line is there will be no new Trek until Les Moonves is gone. Forget Berman - Moonves is the real villain here. The BBC had a similar guy (Grade I think was his name) who was responsible for killing Doctor Who because he didn't like it. Sounds like Moonves has been using Grade's playbook.
Al
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