and reading the Berman interview did it.
This guy is just an idiot and if Paramount has any sense He is done with Trek.
I'm guessing offers arent piling in for him or Braga.
Go home Berman, clean out your offic and give us a break from your crap product.
His arrogance is so over-the-top, it's not even funny anymore. They should never put Berman and Trek in the same sentence ever, ever again.
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Love the shirt! I certainly hope, and believe, you are correct about Berman's involvement in Trek (Sorry, I used Berman and Trek in the same sentence....but for a good cause).
I don't know if he it really that arrogant or if it is just simple ignorance. Either way he is a complete flop and if Hollywood is smart he will be flipping burgers for a living.
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"Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."
-- John Wayne
"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence."
--Dr. Leonard McCoy
"I'm a politician, which means I am a cheat and a liar, and when I am not kissing babies I am stealing their lollipops."
-- Jeffrey Pelt, The Hunt for Red October
"Liberals, Intellectuals, Peacemongers, IDIOTS!!!!"
- General Decker, Mars Attacks
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires, both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
- Q from Q Who
Trust me, Rick, you are done with Star Trek. Whether you want to be or not, you are done with it.
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What's equally amusing is all the news about STXI is coming from Patrick Stewart - not Rick Berman, that the TPTB speaking directly with Stewart - not Berman. Stewart, not once, said he Berman approached him about his involvement in the next ST film.
The fact is Rick Berman is not a creative man; more importantly, he's not Brad Gray's kind of producer - one who is creative and a producer who keeps the project on budget and delivered on time for release.
Berman - despite the criticism - is clearly a good producer - delivers product on time and in budget but his creative side is found wanting and he manages to drive away creative individuals. For whatever speculation Berman allowed too many people not to participate in the ST endeavour and keep ST a viable commodity. Worst - he has shown himself to be involved in revisionist history and refuses to claim failure in the devaluation in ST as commodity. He has officially stated that the fault lies with the former Paramount management - the same management that gave him a sweet contract and protected him.
Yes - he is done with STAR TREK but he will forever be part of STAR TREK. He is Gene Roddenberry's heir and we cannot change history.
He says he only watched a third of trek and he calls himself a "fan". That pretty much puts the final nail in any respect I had for the man. What an idiot! Star Trek may not be totally dead but I think it needs an excellent doctor to get it out of coma
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"Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."
-- John Wayne
"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence."
--Dr. Leonard McCoy
"I'm a politician, which means I am a cheat and a liar, and when I am not kissing babies I am stealing their lollipops."
-- Jeffrey Pelt, The Hunt for Red October
"Liberals, Intellectuals, Peacemongers, IDIOTS!!!!"
- General Decker, Mars Attacks
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires, both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
- Q from Q Who
No wonder the franchise is dead.
Anyone who is in charge of Star Trek (on any level whatsoever) should take the time to watch all of:
TOS
TNG
DS9
VOY
ENT
and the movies.
If they are so busy they can't BOTHER to watch all of those, BEFORE deciding what type of "programming" to put on the air, then I have nothing but contempt for them and I personally, IN MY OPINION, think they are lazy . . .
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Asked about how much influence he feels THE ORIGINAL SERIES has had on him over the years, he said "I was a fan of THE ORIGINAL SERIES in that I had watched a number of episodes, maybe a third of them, and I'd enjoyed them. I didn't closely follow it.
Please, just put the shovel down.
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I watched much more of the original show than people think, though. If we were doing VOYAGER or whatever show and a question of continuity came up, we very often would find ourselves in the cutting room, screening a video or DVD of one of the original episodes.
Really, I actually watched Voyager & you couldn't keep your own continuity right, forget TOS (he must be refering to that Sulu ep, but he missed more than he got!)
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"A lot of fans like to berate me with the idea that I don't care about the continuity of the series, but it was something that I in fact cared greatly about, and it was something we always tried not to hurt."
Seriously where are the guys w/ the white jackets? Buddy you went out of your way to make sure continuity was a bad word! Another first Vulcan, female Pon Fars, wrong warp scale, races we never heard of or saw again, got the ship design right the first time (who remembers the phrase "pioneering"?)....
Why is everyone making an "internet project," out to be such a glorious idea? I hope that was some kind of misunderstanding.
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Give me a break. Most people don't give a shit who is in charge. They just want Star Trek. This ain't a religion and this ain't a political party. As far as I am concerned they could have bloody Oprah Winfrey in charge of the francise. IT DOESN'T MATTER. It's attitudes like this that killed Star Trek in the first place.
WRONG. It's TERRIBLE WRITING that killed Trek. Rick Berman and Brannon Braga killed Trek. Not people like me. People like me have standards. We actually expect continuity to be followed, and good stories to be told. Berman and Braga liked boobs and bombs, and disrespected the franchise. They have NO ABILITY WHATSOEVER, and there is NO CHANCE that they can produce anything good. 12 years of garbage proved that.
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On the contrary... it's attitudes of people who will produce and/or swallow any 'Trek, regardless of quality, that killed (more like damaged) the Franchise.
And it's quotes like that which shows why this guy is the hero of Canton.
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You gotta admit Rick knows more about Star Trek than she does.
Rick knows NOTHING about Star Trek--unless you mean producing bad Star Trek.
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He has worked intensely with all the shows since TNG
And that intense work stunk. He killed a billion dollar franchise.
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and done his best to protect Roddenberrys vision.
How? By ignoring it completely? By bastardizing it?
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I say, Berman is more concerned with the product - Star Trek - than the money.
Did you even watch Star Trek in the last 10 years?
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Otherwise he could have easily turned it upside down. He didn't.
You never saw Enterprise, Voyager, Insurrection, or Generations.
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Shatners comments are heartwarming, but can they be carried out? With all due respect to the man, his age needs to be considered. And when he is gone, and Berman's contract expires, who is left to decide the fate of Star Trek? Leslie Moonves? Who will make his decision strictly business.
Even dead, Shatner could outproduce Berman.
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We actually expect continuity to be followed, and good stories to be told. Berman and Braga liked boobs and bombs, and disrespected the franchise.
Funny. You don't think ENT started out well? Do you think it started out with boobs and bombs, or with a strong message of hope, purpose, and a great respect for all life? From my perspective it conveyed Star Trek beautifully and it was B&B at their finest. The shows focus was on the dream coming true for Archer, and the kid in all of us that wants to "go out there". The noble exploration of space. It wasn't a conquest of territory or a desperate battle for survival. It was back to the roots of Star Trek. Ready to take on a new direction. I don't see the boobs and bombs you're talking about.
The show did lose focus later on, picked up pace in season 3 and found a whole new identity. But all that mess happened because people tuned out of season 1-2. Apparently, Star Trek in its pure form wasn't welcome. Is that B&B's fault? Nope.
It got cancelled anyway. Because it was simply time for Trek to rest.
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Funny. You don't think ENT started out well? Do you think it started out with boobs and bombs, or with a strong message of hope, purpose, and a great respect for all life?
It started off with boobs and bombs. Did you not notice the weekly T'Pol in the decon chamber scene? Did you not notice the continuity violations in the very pilot?
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From my perspective it conveyed Star Trek beautifully and it was B&B at their finest.
Maybe, but from the reality perspective it did not convey Star Trek at all. And B&B at their finest, stinks. B&B=wooden/generic characters, unoriginal plots, and bad continuity.
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It got cancelled anyway. Because it was simply time for Trek to rest.
It got canceled because it wasn't good enough to be on the air. Star Trek itself didn't need a rest. B&B did. Star Trek ended because it was run into the ground by incompetents.
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First of all, the show did start out with boobs, namely T'Pol. It was obvious from the start that B & B were re-hashing the 7 of 9 phenomena, that by putting a robotic hot chick in a catsuit would garner viewers. It garnered scorn.
Second, the Vulcans were portrayed as assholes, which upset a great many fans. Having the primary Vulcan walk around in an atypical catsuit did not help matters any.
Third, the acting was wooden. I was disappointed with Scott Bakula's performance and I hated Jolene Blalock. the rest of the cast also failed to impress.
Fourth, the writing sucked. Instead of focusing upon several key species, we got alien-of-the-week stories that did not make any sense. This was supposed to be a slower ship, yet they reached the Klingon homeworld in five days! It never really felt like a sequel, not with their phase pistols and phase cannons, transporter and polarizing the hull which essentially did the same thing deflector shields did.
Enterprise was a suckfest from day one, which is why nine million people stopped watching.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
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It was obvious from the start that B & B were re-hashing the 7 of 9 phenomena, that by putting a robotic hot chick in a catsuit would garner viewers. It garnered scorn.
I was pretty indifferent about the catsuit. It didn't help. It didn't hurt. In this case I think most people would agree with me.
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Second, the Vulcans were portrayed as assholes, which upset a great many fans.
My interpretation of the Star Trek universe is that humans in general have always despised the Vulcans for their apparent lack of emotion. Remember how Pille used to yell at Spock. ENT added one more twist: That Vulcans came off as arrogant liers, a century and a half before TOS. I don't understand your problem with that? Is it necessary that the Vulcans come off as good guys for ENT to succeed?
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Third, the acting was wooden. I was disappointed with Scott Bakula's performance and I hated Jolene Blalock. the rest of the cast also failed to impress.
I don't know how many people think as you do. Maybe a great deal. I just don't know. Its sort of difficult to say goodbye to known characters from other shows (DS9 and TNG in particular) and begin from scratch, with a new crew that you don't know, and don't care about yet. It takes time to build an emotional attachment to new characters.
The crew on ENT was wet behind the ears at first, which I think was totally appropiate for their time period. Maybe the same can be said about the acting. But if you go back and watch DS9 season one, or TNG season one, you see the acting was terrible compared to subsequent seasons as well.
Season one was focused on the characters, which helped the actors to get aquianted with their characters and the audience to care about them. I don't know why you think they weren't symphatic.
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Fourth, the writing sucked. Instead of focusing upon several key species, we got alien-of-the-week stories that did not make any sense.
Wasn't that primarily in season 2 ? In season one, it was first and foremost about "going out there" to see what's going on. The Sulliban kept reappearing, and there was this mysterical TCW, luring in the background.
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It never really felt like a sequel, not with their phase pistols and phase cannons, transporter and polarizing the hull which essentially did the same thing deflector shields did.
I agree.
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I was pretty indifferent about the catsuit. It didn't help. It didn't hurt. In this case I think most people would agree with me.
When you say "most people", do you mean the twelve million fans who started watching the show or the three million left watching it at the end? Just curious.
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My interpretation of the Star Trek universe is that humans in general have always despised the Vulcans for their apparent lack of emotion.
That is your interpretation, not everyone else's. Unless we're back to the twelve million or three million viewers part. In that case I would think the nine million
viewers who left have more weight than the three million who stayed.
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Remember how Pille used to yell at Spock.
Who the fuck is Pille?
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ENT added one more twist: That Vulcans came off as arrogant liers, a century and a half before TOS. I don't understand your problem with that? Is it necessary
that the Vulcans come off as good guys for ENT to succeed?
What upsets so many of us is the fact that 1) Vulcan telepathy was discarded for three seasons, even though it was established in TOS repeatedly that telepathy was
such an inherent aspect of Vulcan culture and biology that it could not possibly be ignored.
And no, a lot of us don't buy the whole Vulcan change in attitude that was shown in the fourth season, especially when it was gawd-savior Jonathan Archer who was
responsible.
And what about Vulcan strength? Vulcans are much more stronger than humans yet T'Pol was repeatedly shown as weak. Archer is kicking all sorts of Vulcan ass
yet in TOS Spock almost killed Kirk twice.
You see, little things like this matter to many of us.
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I don't know how many people think as you do.
About nine million.
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Maybe a great deal.
Nine million is a great deal.
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I just don't know.
That is denial talking.
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Its sort of difficult to say goodbye to known characters from other shows (DS9 and TNG in particular) and begin from scratch, with a new crew that you don't
know, and don't care about yet.
And yet many of us did it with TNG and DS9. Many of us fell in love with Firefly. Law and Order fans love the spin offs SVU and Criminal Intent.
Growing to like a new cast of characters is not hard. What is hard is growing to like a cast so unlikable is.
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It takes time to build an emotional attachment to new characters.
If you can't get people to like them by the end of the first season then you are doing something very, very wrong.
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The crew on ENT was wet behind the ears at first, which I think was totally appropiate for their time period.
I had no problem with that. Fight or Flight was a decent ep and illustrated this.
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Maybe the same can be said about the acting.
With a veteran like Scott Bakula at the helm? Please.
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But if you go back and watch DS9 season one, or TNG season one, you see the acting was terrible compared to subsequent seasons as well.
DS9 was good from the get go, from an acting perspective. The writing was also good. Perhaps TNG was rough when it began, but many of us grew to love those
characters.
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Season one was focused on the characters, which helped the actors to get aquianted with their characters and the audience to care about them. I don't know why
you think they weren't symphatic.
They were boring. Bakula and Blalock, the two key characters, were wooden.
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Wasn't that primarily in season 2 ? In season one, it was first and foremost about "going out there" to see what's going on. The Sulliban kept reappearing, and
there was this mysterical TCW, luring in the background.
Ah yes, the TCW, one of the worst aspects of Enterprise. Let's fall upon the old crutch of time travel, giving B & B a good excuse to whip out their dicks and piss
all over continuity.
But let's look at how many alien races were shown in season one:
Broken Bow: Alien chicks eating butterflies, alien species that breath another gas other than oxygen and have to be weaned off of it. Suliban. Denobulans (Phlox).
Four new alien species in the pilot.
Fight or Flight: Aliens hung up like meat, aliens who hung previous aliens up like mean. Two new alien species.
Unexpected: Aliens who made Tucker pregnant. One new alien species. Also bullshit use of holographic technology.
Civilization: Primitive culture, species abusing said primitive culture. Two new alien species.
Fortunate Son: Okay, just a note here. Nausicans were used. I highly approved of them using the Nausicans here. B & B were very sharp in this regard. But even
the blind squirrel finds a nut, now and then.
Cold Front: Bunch of monks. At least one new alien species.
Silent Enemy: Silent new alien species.
Dear Doctor: Two new alien species. Phlox advocates letting one species die due to some bizarre theory. Archer goes along with it, advocating genocide without
further study.
Shadows of Pjem: New alien species.
Rogue Planet: Two new alien species.
Oasis: New alien species. Also bullshit use of holographic technology.
Detained: At least one new alien species.
Vox Sola: New alien species.
Fallen Hero: New alien species.
Desert Crossing: New alien species.
So let's count up, shall we? Season one showed no less than twenty one new alien species. Still want to claim season one did not suffer from alien of the week
syndrome?
For a guy who so passionately defends this series you sure don't know much about it.
Season one should have concentrated on Andorians, Vulcans, Tellarites and humans. Orions could have been used as recurring villians. Instead we got AOTW
syndrome, Tellarites did not appear until season two, Orions until season four. At the very least Nausicans could have been employed as good recurring bad guys.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
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When you say "most people", do you mean the twelve million fans who started watching the show or the three million left watching it at the end? Just curious.
I mean people watching TV.
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Who the fuck is Pille?
The doctor in TOS. Usually referred to as Pille. At least in german dubbing.
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Vulcan telepathy; Vulcan change in attitude; Vulcan strength
I didn't buy the Vulcan change in attitude in season 4 either. But at least it was an attempt to bring their society closer to what people like you expected.
Regarding Vulcan telepathy, it seems plausible that 150 years before Kirk it was taboo, since they tried to suppress this as well as their emotions.
Vulcan strength? You got me there.
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little things like this matter to many of us
Sure but you're an avid, long standing TOS Trekker, and therefore a minority. Like I only represent a minority too. We are a blip on the ratings screen. I suspect the 9 million people who tuned out, did so because ENT felt like "more of the same". Nothing so specific as Vulcan behaviour.
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DS9 was good from the get go, from an acting perspective.
Not Avery Brooks and Cirroc Lofton. The writing was good though. But Avery didn't deliver a natural sounding dialogue until he got rid of his hair, and Cirroc wasn't good in the pilot.
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Aliens of the week syndrome
As I see you've done some research. I must admit that I have forgotten many of those alien appearances. You can laugh now.
But the recurring species in season one was Vulcans and Sulliban. A lot of character oriented stuff in there. I really liked Shadows of P'Jem.
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For a guy who so passionately defends this series you sure don't know much about it
Alright its fading. I don't have ENT on video at the moment and my mind is currently filled with DS9 and VOY episodes.
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All that Brannon said was that he's on another project and he's not doing STAR TREK right now, and he thinks if someone asked him tomorrow to do STAR TREK again he's probably say the time wasn't right, but that he wouldn't rule it out.
Don't you threaten us Berman...
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As for myself, I have no idea if I'm done with STAR TREK. Since there are no STAR TREK projects in television even being discussed right now and since the idea of the next STAR TREK movie is far away, or does not seem to be imminent, for me to say 'I'm done with STAR TREK' isn't something I'm going to say. I can't make any kind of definitive statement on that.
I honestly don't think it's your decision any longer.
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I was a fan of THE ORIGINAL SERIES in that I had watched a number of episodes, maybe a third of them, and I'd enjoyed them. I didn't closely follow it.
Thanks for the update Captain Obvious.
I'd like to think that I don't usually post little rants like this, but I've been watching VOY on DVD lately, and this bozo and Braga are all over the special features. (God, I miss Ira Behr) I give Braga credit for admitting on the Season 2 bonus feature segment that VOY: Threshold was a huge mistake, but mainly I just want to put an axe through the television each time one of their snide visages talks about the wonderful things they did for the Franchise.
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
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"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
I was just over at slashdot where there is an article about George Takei reprising his role of Sulu for Star Trek:New Voyages, and it dawned on me that the internet project that Braga is involving himself in could be somehow connected to the New Voyages fan series.
The only other apparently logical internet project that I can think of is TrekUnited...
Egad!
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To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And, at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between, plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big 'thing.' This is truth, to me.
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The STAR TREK NEW VOYAGES episode in which George Takei will appear, "World Enough And Time", will be co-written by DEEP SPACE NINE writer Marc Scott Zicree and Michael Reaves. Reaves pitched a Sulu story for the never-produced STAR TREK PHASE 2 TV Series.
Gustavo
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TrekWeb.com Supervising Editor
gl2000@uol.com.br
It seems that Star Trek won't be back tomorrow. But when it returns, we need men like Rick Berman to set the style and tone of the show, and give it a sense of familiarity. We also need new people for that creative sparkle and modern touch. Cooperation is beneficial and allows for mixing old and new.
Broadcasting a show worldwide over the internet is still many years away. Not due to technical obstacles but due to politics. But its only appropiate if Star Trek gets to be the first show to benefit from it. (Assuming this is what Rick Berman was talking about. It could be something else)
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Assuming this is what Rick Berman was talking about. It could be something else
I'm pretty sure that when he was referring to stuff "on the internet," he meant that rumors about the upcoming film were circulating.
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
If either Berman or Braga return to Star Trek, I think a huge portion of the people who have been hanging on and waiting for a "new" Star Trek will simply give up on the franchise completely. And if they create another lame attempt at interpreting Star Trek and it sucks, then Star Trek will be hurt as a franchise for a very long time. It's a lose-lose situation.
They've had their chance and they blew it...royally.
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To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And, at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between, plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big 'thing.' This is truth, to me.
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You can only hold the door open for an un-invited guest so long before you gotta kick them out!
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
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