RE: Is he joking? | Report this post to moderator
By: Sennik (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:56:56 on Jul 04, 2005

The simple explanation for why "These Are The Voyages" ties up the last 18 years of Star Trek, and connects it to TNG, is because to Rick Berman, the last 18 years of Star Trek is the ONLY Star Trek he's concerned with.

And I'm sorry, but all those people out there who are defending TATV by saying it ties up the "modern" era of Star Trek are quite simply defending a sinking ship. Enterprise was a series whose ENTIRE PREMISE was that it took place before The Original Series. Before Captain Kirk and crew were sailing through space. In an act of pure Berman ego, their ship was even inserted in the timeline as the NEW first starship Enterprise. NCC-1701? What's that? No, the real first Enterprise was NX-01. Bullsh*t. But, anyway. My point being, Enterprise was billed from DAY ONE as being a prequel to TOS, and promised to show audiences how humanity got to the stars, and eventually became the people we saw in Kirk's era, and later in Picard's.

A fitting end for Enterprise would've been to tie it to Star Trek: The Original Series. All this rubbish about it wrapping up the "modern" era of Star Trek is just so much bull. No one really gave three sh*ts about "The Pegasus" episode anyway, and THIS is the big episode they tied Enterprise's finale to? It's like they put all the episode titles in a hat, picked one, and said, "Ok, lets shoehorn an Enterprise plot into it."

Most of the fans had left Enterprise by this point anyway, so acknowledging its place in Star Trek history was just so much stupidity. Had they just had a final scene, with an old T'Pol watching the launch of the new NCC-1701, that would've tied Enterprise to the rest of the Star Trek continuity. But, since Berman doesn't care about fitting ends, and stories that make sense, we got the train wreck called "These Are The Voyages."

It was the worst episode of Enterprise, bar none, and the worst finale of any of the Star Trek series. The day we get an official announcement that Rick Berman is no longer involved in the running of the Star Trek franchise should be declared a national holiday.

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RE: Is he joking? | Report this post to moderator
By: katefan (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:25:47 on Jul 04, 2005

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ENT ends the modern era of Star Trek. The modern era began with TNG, and TNG was Roddenberry's show. I know, when he died. But TNG stayed Roddenberry's show, unless you consider it more a result of cooperation.

But they continued to make TOS era movies well into TNG's run, even tying in both series with Spock's guest appearance on TNG and having Michael Dorn play Worf's grandfather.

So you cannot say there is a clear cut "era", now can you?

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Which wouldn't be an unfair thing to do. Anyway, Star Trek's popularity and ratings peaked during TNG's seventh season.

But creatively it began to seriously suffer by this point, and who was one of the writers churning out crappy scripts? Brannon Braga. So Berman was producing, Braga was writing, and as a result we see the series suffer as a result.

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So "These are the Voyages" features a logical and appropiate tie-in with the rest of Star Trek.

The show is a prequel to the TOS era, so the logical tie-in should have been with TOS. And at this message board several valid suggestions were proposed. My favorite was T'Pol meeting a cadet Kirk, or witnessing the launching of the 1701 Enterprise with Robert April at the helm.

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You can't have it all - VOY, DS9, TOS - into one episode. That would dominate the episode and probably seem very confusing. This still needed to be an ENT episode, to allow each character to make a graceful exit.

Which they failed to do:

Hoshi and Mayweather: Still ensigns. Even Geordi, Worf and Troi got promotions during TNG's run on television.

Trip: Ignoble death, really pointless and done for shock value.

Archer: "And here's my speech..."

Riker: "Computer, end program."

Yeah, that was really graceful.

Reed: His best friend dies and two days later all he can talk about is how crappy his seat is at the ceremony.

And Frakes and Sirtis did not really look all that good. They certainly did not look close to being eleven years younger.

--------

"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."

Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep

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RE: Is he joking? | Report this post to moderator
By: McCoy666 (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:31:39 on Jul 04, 2005

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This hostility towards B&B is affecting your judgement.

My hostility toward those boneheads is justified. Look, I'm the first guy to try to be empathetic and realize that there are different sides to every situation. I realize that Berman's job ain't easy, and that he is in a tug-a-war between what the fans want and what the suits want. But, DAMMIT, a true professional knows when his time is up and that he has done all he can. I don't know the guy personally, but the more I hear from the guy, the more I think that he is truly an arrogant prick. His creativity ran out years ago, but he refuses to listen to us or even look at his own product and understand that.

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Ent ends the modern era of Star Trek. The modern era began with TNG, and TNG was Roddenberry's show.

So Trek is being divied up into eras now? Okay, but if you are going to do that, you really have to say that the modern era began when Roddenberry died, which is still when Berman took over. And that is still the only era that he cares about.

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Star Trek's popularity and ratings peaked during TNG's seventh season.

And then proceeded to crash when Berman killed Kirk later that year. His most insulting attack on TOS to date.

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You can't have it all - VOY, DS9, TOS - into one episode. That would dominate the episode and probably seem very confusing. This still needed to be an ENT episode, to allow each character to make a graceful exit.

I didn't ask for DS9 and especially not for Voyager to be part of this episode. I asked for it to truly come full circle and relate to TOS. Coto did an awesome job of that for the rest of the season, but Berman reverted the show back to the form the first 3 seasons took and made it have nothing to do with TOS. And this still wasn't an Ent episode that allowed for graceful exits. It was a Riker/Troi episode.

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I completely disagree. (That Frakes and Sirtis looked terrible.)

Okay, but watch this episode and the original episode back to back and tell me that these two looked even remotely the same. Honestly, Shatner, Koenig, and Takai do not look any more different than they did in 1991. They could be brought back any time and still be able to fit their roles. What is with the outright refusal by Berman to go that route?

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