I would love to see Capt. Janeway and Voyager get their shot at the next ST Movie release. They had some great story lines they never tied up like getting caught in the war between the Borg and Species 8472. The Hunters are great villians they could exploit in the movie also.
Maybe the only real solution to this mess is for Trek fans to boycott any future Berman produced material. It may be bad for Trek in the short term - but it might help a future spinoff come about faster.
We (the fans) do not want any "prequal" crap with new characters.
We want great new stories with tried and true loved characters.
We do not have "franchise fatigue".
We have "franchise withdrawel".
Enterprise was definitely not up to par with other Star Trek series and didn't even seem like a Star Trek Franchise. I feel as if there hasn't been any new Star Trek stuff since Voyager was cancelled.
I myself miss the Next Generation, Deep Space 9 and Voyager characters and quality of product that those series presented. Fans are leaving because the Star Trek product sucks now and we are left with only reruns - of which Voyager is hard to find - and movies watched a zillion times.
Give us quality new movies based on the old product and we will flock to the theaters in droves!
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Star Trek Voyager was not cancelled, it lasted 7 seasons which is the Star Trek norm. UPN is a new and unpopular network. I believe that Star Trek TNG was very popular because it was on WB, along with DS9. If Star Trek is put on ABC, CBS, NBC, WB, or FOX, I believe it will be respected and do well. It will also help to have a few known actors. Scott Backula was known, but only for Sci-Fi. Having Jeri Ryan on Voyager really added to the show's popularity. The next incarnation of Star Trek should have recognizable actors and humor. Since Star Trek: First Contact, the lighting, plots, and uniforms have gotten dark. Look at TOS or TNG and you will see bright uniforms, lighting, and stories. We do not need an Evil Villan in every movie or in every episode. Involving John Delancie as Q and Woopi Goldberg and Guinan can add much to the plot. Star Trek Nemesis had a fantastic story by John Logan, but much of the important scenes are cut out of the movie in order to have more "action." If you watch the deleted scenes and add them to the movie in your mind, the movie is much more moving, complete, and understandable. Simply adding explosions do not make a good movie. The trailers are missing from the Nemesis DVD. If you watch the trailers, the contain many great scenes and quotes, such as "In darkness there is strength" and "The mighty Federation will fall before us." These VERY IMPORTANT quotes and scenes are taken out of the final cut of the movie, and if you watch the commentaries by Patrick Stewart and the Director, you can sense the frustration and anger of these scenes being removed from the final cut. A movie does not have to be under 2 hours. Look at the Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, or King Kong. Nemesis was much better than Insurrection but the way it was diced destroyed the whole (unless you watch the deleted scenes). The "Alternate Ending" has humor (with the seat belt) and the new first officer, and it sends off the Enterprise on a new mission. Star Trek 11 should be bright, hopefull, not limited by 2 hours, and consistant.
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Star Trek Voyager was not cancelled, it lasted 7 seasons which is the Star Trek norm. UPN is a new and unpopular network. I believe that Star Trek TNG was very popular because it was on WB, along with DS9. If Star Trek is put on ABC, CBS, NBC, WB, or FOX, I believe it will be respected and do well. It will also help to have a few known actors. Scott Backula was known, but only for Sci-Fi. Having Jeri Ryan on Voyager really added to the show's popularity. The next incarnation of Star Trek should have recognizable actors and humor. Since Star Trek: First Contact, the lighting, plots, and uniforms have gotten dark. Look at TOS or TNG and you will see bright uniforms, lighting, and stories. We do not need an Evil Villan in every movie or in every episode. Involving John Delancie as Q and Woopi Goldberg and Guinan can add much to the plot. Star Trek Nemesis had a fantastic story by John Logan, but much of the important scenes are cut out of the movie in order to have more "action." If you watch the deleted scenes and add them to the movie in your mind, the movie is much more moving, complete, and understandable. Simply adding explosions do not make a good movie. The trailers are missing from the Nemesis DVD. If you watch the trailers, the contain many great scenes and quotes, such as "In darkness there is strength" and "The mighty Federation will fall before us." These VERY IMPORTANT quotes and scenes are taken out of the final cut of the movie, and if you watch the commentaries by Patrick Stewart and the Director, you can sense the frustration and anger of these scenes being removed from the final cut. A movie does not have to be under 2 hours. Look at the Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, or King Kong. Nemesis was much better than Insurrection but the way it was diced destroyed the whole (unless you watch the deleted scenes). The "Alternate Ending" has humor (with the seat belt) and the new first officer, and it sends off the Enterprise on a new mission. Star Trek 11 should be bright, hopefull, not limited by 2 hours, and consistant.
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Star Trek Voyager was not cancelled, it lasted 7 seasons which is the Star Trek norm. UPN is a new and unpopular network. I believe that Star Trek TNG was very popular because it was on WB, along with DS9. If Star Trek is put on ABC, CBS, NBC, WB, or FOX, I believe it will be respected and do well. It will also help to have a few known actors. Scott Backula was known, but only for Sci-Fi. Having Jeri Ryan on Voyager really added to the show's popularity. The next incarnation of Star Trek should have recognizable actors and humor. Since Star Trek: First Contact, the lighting, plots, and uniforms have gotten dark. Look at TOS or TNG and you will see bright uniforms, lighting, and stories. We do not need an Evil Villan in every movie or in every episode. Involving John Delancie as Q and Woopi Goldberg and Guinan can add much to the plot. Star Trek Nemesis had a fantastic story by John Logan, but much of the important scenes are cut out of the movie in order to have more "action." If you watch the deleted scenes and add them to the movie in your mind, the movie is much more moving, complete, and understandable. Simply adding explosions do not make a good movie. The trailers are missing from the Nemesis DVD. If you watch the trailers, the contain many great scenes and quotes, such as "In darkness there is strength" and "The mighty Federation will fall before us." These VERY IMPORTANT quotes and scenes are taken out of the final cut of the movie, and if you watch the commentaries by Patrick Stewart and the Director, you can sense the frustration and anger of these scenes being removed from the final cut. A movie does not have to be under 2 hours. Look at the Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, or King Kong. Nemesis was much better than Insurrection but the way it was diced destroyed the whole (unless you watch the deleted scenes). The "Alternate Ending" has humor (with the seat belt) and the new first officer, and it sends off the Enterprise on a new mission. Star Trek 11 should be bright, hopefull, not limited by 2 hours, and consistant.
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We (the fans) do not want any "prequal" crap with new characters.
We want great new stories with tried and true loved characters.
Try replacing the "we" with "I" and you may be getting somewhere. Don't pretend to speak for all the fans.
I feel that Star Trek is in need of a makeover. We don't need Kirk. We don't need Picard. We don't need the "E". What we need is somebody to breathe some new life into a franchise that has become middle aged with a sag around the middle. If that means a "prequel", then so be it.
Enterprise was an attempt at trying to do the same old-same old with Trek, and it didn't work. Its time to do something different.
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Scientists discover the world that exists;
engineers create the world that never was.
-Theodore von Kármán
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Purplepoints I agree with you. Who want to see new characters that you'll have to spend 45 minutes of the movie getting acquainted with? Not me. That new character crap didn't fly with ENTERPRISE and it's not gonna fly with STAR TREK XI.
I want to see developed, loved characters. I want to know what happened to the characters of VOYAGER. Kess, Tuvok, 7o9, Bilana. I feel VOYAGER has a wealth of stories to tell and, if told right, could be gangbusters at the box office. It would pull in hardcore fans and attract new female fans too (because of Janeway). Especially if she shows heart and kicks ass ala Sigourney Weaver in Aliens. The Execs @ paramount need to relax and get someone who love the franchise in there to steer it in the right direction. I've spazzed too long...sorry.
PS. Everytime I TIVO Voyager the network change the time or date. It makes it hard to keep up with my favorite ST show.
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I think it's all part of the same syndrome, which has something to do with the erosion of the fans and the fact that after 700 and something episodes of television, and 10 movies, that people are moving away."
Yes, when all else fails, blame your audience....
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"A Keyboard?! How Quaint..."
--Scotty
Sort of anyway. He's not really a creative person, he was selected to work with Roddenberry on TNG and as I read it to represent Paramount's interests, so as a corporate guy he's done OK. I don't think the creative direction is right, but that's an opinion. There's been a long tradition over the years of the Trek actors giving the fans updates on Star Trek. This began when show was on and it continued through the resurrection of it. Roddenberry et. al. would go to conventions and say what was going on. Sometimes there wasn't news, or there was news of something like Phase II that never happened. My point is everybody wanted to hear from the actors and Roddenberry. I don't think anybody has their credibility anymore, especially with fans. It's a business. Roddenberry and the TOS actors could talk about Star Trek and show their love for it, these guys talk about it as a business (which it is) so it doesn't come off right. Why try to be something they can't?
Well, this is how I think things are going to play out...
Rick Berman will produce ST:XI and it will either be good or it will be bad. But the numbers will be short unless he can produce something that the fans will be willing to check out and spread enthusiasm via word of mouth.
I think that Rick Berman has had plenty of chances to prove himself. If NEMESIS and TATV aren't good indications that this guy is wrong for this job, then I don't know what the thought process over at Paramount is regarding this whole process.
What Rick Berman fails to understand is this, STAR TREK could remain on the air continuously for 100 years if there were good stories to tell, but Rick Berman has lost the essence of what Star Trek is, assuming he ever did understand.
What exactly does Berman mean by "quality"? The look of the show (ENT) was generally fine. It was the writing and the stupid situations that the poorly fleshed out crew were involved in that was the problem. If anyone has franchise fatigue, it isn't the fans, it's Rick Berman himself. He's been doing this for quite a while now, and he's more clueless than ever. He's writing a show for people who are smarter than he is and his contempt reveals itself at every opportunity. If they must have an untalented person running Star Trek, surely they can get someone who is less expensive to retain for their...services.
Rick Berman has been given one more chance by the studio to produce a Star Trek film. Whether it's any good or not may be irrelevant. Lately I've been meeting a lot of new people who are Star Trek fans, and you'd never know it by looking at them. Without fail, they were all disappointed by ENT, but even more disappinted that the show was cancelled after it improved. People who are casual fans are aware of Rick Berman's lousy input to the show and it would appear that his name is a black mark on Star Trek in the eyes of the fans. If Rick Berman delivers another crappy Star Trek film, then Paramount might as well not do any more Star Trek again, ever. At least until the current fans grow old and die. Nothing here exists in a vacuum and I don't think that the fanbase has a short memory.
I wish someone could provide me with one good reason why Rick Berman should remain as exec producer of TREK. It seems to me that he has done more damage than good lately. I also think that he has never understood or appreciated what he's affiliated with. Additionally, I think that he's even more out of touch than he ever has been.
ST:XI may be Rick Berman's last hurrah, but the fans won't cheer until he is removed from the franchise. Maybe Rick Berman enjoys the distinction of being the most hated man in science fiction. He certainly has my vote.
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To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And, at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between, plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big 'thing.' This is truth, to me.
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I agree with Sennik in that I highly doubt Trek XI will be made under Berman. As Berman himself has said, any project will probably be two or three years down the road, and that will be after his contract runs out. Unless Paramount actively makes the decision to keep him, he will not be involved. That's not totally out of the realm of possibilities, but extremely unlikely in my mind.
On another note, I will seriously question Berman's mental health if he gives one more interview like this. I can understand him wanting to put a positive spin on everything while ENT was still on the air. (No matter how ludicrous the spin seemed.) Now that the show is gone, you'd think he'd at least back down somewhat, but he's still spinning. Like I said before, it's as if he wants people to bash him.
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The supervisor is Verizon!
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Like I said before, it's as if he wants people to bash him.
I know, I've said the same thing. I think he's a masochist. It's almost as if he's playing a sick game with the fans who want nothing more than for Star Trek to be congruent and cohesive. Inventing and altering the existing fabric of Star Trek is a no-no. And the Temporal Cold war as a reset button was a bad idea which was overused as it was. To use those elements to the degree which they have is just insane. If that's their idea of good science fiction, I'd hate to see what they think bad sci-fi is. But then, nobody could ever accuse Rick Berman of being a fan of science fiction.
As regards Berman's mental health, I think that it's in more question than Scorned's:)
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To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And, at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between, plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big 'thing.' This is truth, to me.
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I don't think he wants people to bash him. Like he's giving these interviews with the thought in the back of his mind that "this will get those fans riled up good again." That would require some level of intelligence on Berman's part. No, I don't think so.
He's operating under the assumption that the more you say something, and repeat it over and over, eventually the people will take it as fact. Unfortunately, as we've seen over the past decade, the fans he's talking to are actually smarter than he is. There are a few out there (even on this board) who do believe "franchise fatigue" was the cause of death, so Berman can claim a small victory there. But the majority know it was Berman fatigue that killed Star Trek for a few years.
I wouldn't worry about a Rick Berman produced Star Trek XI. He'll be shuffled off the Star Trek franchise by Paramount long before that happens.
I posted this before, but can't resist posting it again. Berman is just an amazing psychological phenomenon.
In a breaking news flash, Berman and Braga decided to rewrite the Constitution of the United States. They both said they found the original to be a modest success for it's time, but they have decided to elevate this ancient document to new heights.
The President, the Senate and almost everyone in Washington condemned the rewritten version. Some objected to the attempt to make the Constitution sexier. Some objected to the removal of certain fundamental rights for the citizens. Still others objected to Berman and Braga calling the original writers 'visionless fools'. Finally, people did not like the fact that B&B tried to rewrite history so that the original framers of the Constitution did not exist.
B&B, so utterly confident that their new version was superior to the stale old document, presented it to the general population of the United States. The results came back: Out of 100 million people that responded, only 2 liked the new version. Most described the new version as a 'stinking pile of dog poop'. The two that dissented called it a 'bold' and 'original' revision.
B&B, when informed of the survey results pointed out that the population of the United States is 296,138,261- consequently, the survey really does not mean anything. They claimed that these were the sort of infantile tactics used by their opposition to discredit their masterpiece.
When pressed on why there was such overwhelming agreement amongst the 100 million surveyed, the thoughtful couple replied: "Constitution Fatigue".
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psp1
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psp1
Galactica costs SCI FI close to $2 million per epsiode. Money wasn't an issue, the rate of return was an issue. The production values on Galactica match that of any network show but while Galactica is on the rise Enterprise was a series on it's last leg. That much money can be spent elsewhere on new projects. People often point to Stargate as a pickup from another network but Stargate never lost any of its audience over the 5 years it aired on Showtime. Since SCI FI picked up the show it's maintained and built upon its original numbers.
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I daresay that the people involved with creating GALACTICA looked at what ENTERPRISE was doing wrong, and simply didn't repeat B&B's mistakes over there. ENTERPRISE was a textbook case for how NOT to run a tv show.
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To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And, at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between, plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big 'thing.' This is truth, to me.
None of you will give in.
None of you can proove what you are saying.
The only thing you can be sure of, is that the audience has shrunk. Each are entitled to their own opinion about why. But there is no reason to bash one another. None of you can proove, what caused it.
I tend to agree with B&B.
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i just cannot understand you!! both you and voiceactor76 are B & B apologists. one might wonder if finally berman and braga had started posting on trekweb. but no, i think that even they would have more wit in their arguments.
there is ONE REASON that enterprise is off the air. SHITTY STORYTELLING. that is all there is to it. the tripe that issues forth from your mouth again and again..... jesus, i read your posts and feel like someone is shoveling shit into my mouth!
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None of you can proove, what caused it.
actually it is quite easy to do so. COMPARE AND CONTRAST. watch all four seasons of enterprise. then watch ONE EPISODE of DS9. chances are, your choice of a random episode will have better writing, more character development, more believable acting, more SOUL, and ideas that actually give you some kind of emotional response other than disgust!!
i just watched "tatv" last night, after a long, drawn out download. after reading everyone's response to the episode, i immediately saw why. the episode was awful. b&b managed to piss on ANY feelings that i had remaining for the show. 7 hours ago i deleted over 10 gb of enterprise. as soon as the episode was over, as a matter of fact. BERMAN AND BRAGA, THANK YOU FOR KILLING ENTERPRISE.
at least there are still the novels.
please take a look at what you are saying and stop apologizing for b&b.
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Enemies strengthen you. Allies weaken. I tell you this in the hope that it will help you understand why I act as I do in the full knowledge that great forces accumulate in my Empire with but one wish--the wish to destroy me. You who read these words may know full well what actually happened, but I doubt that you understand it.
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I love DS9. I've bought the DVDs, and me and a friend is watching them together - he is watching them for the first time. No doubt DS9 has great writing, characters, acting, soul.
But I've also enjoyed ENT, and so has my friend. We like the soul of ENT. You could say, the show had a rough ride and changed very much in style, beginning with season 3, and again in season 4.. Where DS9 progressed in a more natural way. But I understand there was a need to "retool" ENT immediately after season 2, in a desperate effort to raise ratings. I don't know if I liked season 3 more. I liked the arcs, but not necessarely the mission. Still, there are very few episodes of ENT that leaves me with a bad taste.
I defend B&B for various reasons, mostly because I think people blame them too much.
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Quote:" None of you will give in.
None of you can proove what you are saying."
The fact that people BACK up their points is proof enough that "ideas/solutions/reasons" ARE out there. There is no "evil witch" out there using black magic to make all these problems occur.
You keep hearing the same old crap from B&B and it just doesn't make any sense. But again, there you are believing everything. Grow up already!
Quote:"The only thing you can be sure of, is that the audience has shrunk. Each are entitled to their own opinion about why. But there is no reason to bash one another. None of you can proove, what caused it."
Nice speech but it is one sided against the fans. Why not take your speech to your heroes B&B!
Quote:"I tend to agree with B&B."
So basically you are telling us is that your a moron? Because only a moron would believe any of their crap! It is surprising that some Trek fans are this sad.
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None of you will give in.
And neither will you gushers.
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None of you can proove what you are saying.
What, that the product sucks now in comparison to TNG and DS9? True, that's subjective, but there are far more fans of those shows than there are of Enterprise. The reason for that goes to quality.
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The only thing you can be sure of, is that the audience has shrunk. Each are entitled to their own opinion about why. But there is no reason to bash one another. None of you can proove, what caused it.
The show started off with 12 million viewers. If the quality had been there a majority of those viewers would have stayed. They had the Wednesday night time slot for three seasons so you can't blame the nine million viewer loss on a shift in time slot. The fans knew when the show was airing so you can't blame UPN for not promoting it.
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I tend to agree with B&B.
But they aren't exactly objective about it, now are they? Are they going to admit they produced a crappy product? Of course not.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
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there are far more fans of those shows than there are of Enterprise. The reason for that goes to quality
Maybe "franchise fatigue, overkill" is just another way of putting it. We could be talking about the same thing, looking at it from different perspectives.
If you replace todays audience with the audience 18 years ago, what would happen? Would these people dig ENT? Possibly. Its possible they would consider it quite creative.
Today we've also seen TNG DS9 VOY... With each episode, Trek has established more of its own traditions, that it needs to adhere to. ENT didn't do that entirely successfully. Some people say it broke canon. Other people say, the show was a remake. In particulary during the first two seasons. And people are getting tired of reset-buttons and standalone eps.
So its not an eye-opener because we are us. That's what I would call franchise fatigue. You could also say, its the quality of the show. Its two sides of one coin.
Berman just likes the show - so do I - and that's why some of us say ENT is a good show...
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Quote:
Maybe "franchise fatigue, overkill" is just another way of putting it. We could be talking about the same thing, looking at it from different perspectives.
If you replace todays audience with the audience 18 years ago, what would happen? Would these people dig ENT? Possibly. Its possible they would consider it quite creative.
Those people 18 years ago were watching TNG, a very, very different show. TNG was not trying to be a prequel, it took place some eighty years later. It had a strong ensemble cast, as opposed to Enterprise concentrating on "the big three". It had a few interesting supporting characters like O'Brien, unlike Enterprise who couldn't even make time to make their core characacters interesting. They created the new Chief Engineer only at the last minute when Trip left.
And yeah, there was a woman running around in a catsuit. However, they did not reduce her to a mindless, brain damaged, drug addicted sex object.
Oh, and one more thing; people actually got promotions; Geordi from lt. j.g. to lt. Commander, Worf to lt., Deanna Troi from lt. Commander to Commander. Hoshi and Mayweather are still fucking ensigns by series end.
And don't give me any crap about rank increases being impossible; Worf, Geordi and Deanna all did the same job with higher ranks. An increase in rank is the military's way of acknowledging your skill, dedication and maturity by giving you more authority.
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Today we've also seen TNG DS9 VOY... With each episode, Trek has established more of its own traditions, that it needs to adhere to. ENT didn't do that entirely successfully. Some people say it broke canon. Other people say, the show was a remake. In particulary during the first two seasons. And people are getting tired of reset-buttons and standalone eps.
All true. And it points to B & B being unable to handle a new format, going with a tired old formula. No daring, no imagination.
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So its not an eye-opener because we are us.
...What?
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That's what I would call franchise fatigue. You could also say, its the quality of the show. Its two sides of one coin.
Who is responsible for the quality of the show? B & B. If Coto had been in charge of the series from day one then we might not have had this problem in the first place. You are just making excuses for the two guys responsible for driving this franchise into the ground.
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Berman just likes the show - so do I - and that's why some of us say ENT is a good show...
Berman is not exactly the most objective person. And you are far too forgiving.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
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As much as I like Manny Coto, he is a child. Berman is the parent. Children need good parents to nurse them. Since Gene Roddenberry is nomore, Rick Berman is the closest relative. And I think he did a good job over the years, keeping the vision of Trek. More than you'd expect from most people... DS9 was actually like a rebelling child and although I like that show, I wouldn't want Ira Behr to have complete control over the direction of Trek... We have a saying in my country: Keep the grey gold (when a persons hair is turning grey). These people got the experience. Sadly that isn't always happening and young people sometimes lack the respect and appriciation of the older.
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First of all, it's interesting how you seem incapable of addressing anything I said in my previous post. It's like you read it, realized everything I said was the truth, and were afraid to acknowledge just how weak your position is. I'm not surprised; I've seen many people who are Enterprise fans who are incapable of defending this show or B & B once the facts are laid out.
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As much as I like Manny Coto, he is a child.
This is bull. He's an adult. A creative adult who has made mistakes, true, but has done a far better job than Berman in this fourth season compared to B & B's first, second and first half of the third. I thought the T'Pol crack whore storyline was a huge mistake but I don't know how much of that was him and how much of that was Berman telling him what to do.
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Berman is the parent.
Yeah, an abusive parent.
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Children need good parents to nurse them.
See my abusive parent statement above.
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Since Gene Roddenberry is nomore, Rick Berman is the closest relative.
Ira Behr, any one?
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And I think he did a good job over the years, keeping the vision of Trek.
Sure, at one point he did do a good job. But he's run out of creativity and has been going through the motions for years, unable to move with the times or try new things.
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More than you'd expect from most people... DS9 was actually like a rebelling child and although I like that show, I wouldn't want Ira Behr to have complete control over the direction of Trek...
And why not? DS9 was trying new things for 'Trek; character conflict, story arcs, political intrigue. It was much better than Voyager, which was more of the same old crap, just on the other side of the galaxy.
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We have a saying in my country: Keep the grey gold (when a persons hair is turning grey). These people got the experience.
Experience is one thing, but if that person is unable to adapt, unable to accept they are behind the times, unable to see past their own ego that it is time to step aside then they are a detriment
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Sadly that isn't always happening and young people sometimes lack the respect and appriciation of the older.
So Berman should keep his job just because he has held onto it for so long? "Ignore the ratings, Berman has tenure!"
Bull. Berman did good 'Trek once, but not any more. It is time for him to step aside.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
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Quote:"As much as I like Manny Coto, he is a child. Berman is the parent. Children need good parents to nurse them. Since Gene Roddenberry is no more, Rick Berman is the closest relative. And I think he did a good job over the years, keeping the vision of Trek.
Are you smoking crack? WHAT the hell does this mean? What the hell is this based on? If you think that Berman did a good job on Trek then you are f'ing insane! HOW can you say this? Just look at the state of Trek right now! ENT was a failure! The huge decline in ratings clearly showed it. The first two seasons were pure shit. They did nothing and went no where. The writing was pure garbage. A great example of crap writing is this "Who the hell was the future guy?" What was the point of the temporal cold war? All that lame story line was just poorly conceived and went no where. How anyone could call the first two seasons of ENT "good Trek" has got to the dumbest person on the planet. The only good season they had was S4 and EVERYONE noticed it. It was the "Manny Coto Show" that gave ENT what little grace to be called "Star Trek".
Quote:"More than you'd expect from most people... DS9 was actually like a rebelling child and although I like that show, I wouldn't want Ira Behr to have complete control over the direction of Trek... We have a saying in my country: Keep the grey gold (when a persons hair is turning grey). These people got the experience. Sadly that isn't always happening and young people sometimes lack the respect and appriciation of the older.
Again what the hell is the point on this nonsense? We should keep this old incompetent jackass around for what reason? The man and his girlfriend Braga almost single handily ruined Star Trek. Two dude movies, two lame series all back to back. It is no wonder fans got tired of this crap and just left. Leaving Trek while they still have a good memory of it. They should keep these two so called writers who could never come up with anything around just because they got experience? It is more like experience in not being able to do anything worth while. If that is the case they should be used as a guideline for other writers "hey don't be a Berman and give me a better script or "man this idea is so Braga that it is pathetic"
Your love and complete forgiveness of two men who's complete incompetence destroyed a great franchise really shows me that you are no fan of Trek. To sit there and watch Trek crash into the ground while these two dickheads "blame the fans and everything under sun" and think they are not to blame is most disturbing. Do everyone a favour and go watch "bad sci-fi garbage" (aka BSG)
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ENT was a failure! The huge decline in ratings clearly showed it.
ENT was a ratings-failure. But there's a difference between popularity and quality. Lots of crappy music is popular, right? Lots of bad movies get more publicity than Star Trek, right? Why is that? Because artists don't work their way up. They are given a voice when someone with a big wallet happens to like them, or thinks they could be easy to exploit. Maybe their music is so "mainstream" that finding an audience for it, is a safe bet. Who wants a risky investment? Who wants a creative experiment? Nope. A big franchise like Star Trek can't jump around, trying to re-invent itself.
And it hasn't re-invented itself. Rick Berman has tried to keep Star Trek the way it was, applying changes only when he felt it was appropiate and needed. That's good, but maybe it backfired as people lost interest in the whole thing. Its difficult to say whether people has lost interest in all things Star Trek, or just the newer stuff. You can't tell just by asking the few diehards around here. You need to ask the general population... and they seem to have many different reasons for abandoning Trek.
Anyway, I like Star Trek for what it is - and was. I can see why you don't like Rick Berman. You don't like the last few hundred episodes or so. But I did like them. So why should I have a gripe against the producers?
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Do everyone a favour and go watch "bad sci-fi garbage" (aka BSG)
aa aa, I haven't touched that show, and I won't. I'm a Star Trek purist!
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ENT was a ratings-failure. But there's a difference between popularity and quality.
True. TOS, TNG and DS9 were quality 'Trek. Voyager and Enteprise weren't.
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A big franchise like Star Trek can't jump around, trying to re-invent itself.
But it did. TNG was 'Trek reinvented. DS9 again was different than TNG. Enterprise was very much like Voyager with it's aliens of the week and T'Pol being a 7 of 9 clone. There was no creative challenge here.
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And it hasn't re-invented itself.
And the ratings tanked, meaning that because it did not try to be new it failed.
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Rick Berman has tried to keep Star Trek the way it was, applying changes only when he felt it was appropiate and needed.
Berman has kept Star Trek static while television has moved one without him.
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That's good...
Judging by the fact that Enterprise was canceled, that is highly doubtful.
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...but maybe it backfired as people lost interest in the whole thing.
Maybe it backfired? Sad to see that with the ratings decline and cancellation you are unable to admit Enterprise was both a failure commercially and creatively.
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Its difficult to say whether people has lost interest in all things Star Trek, or just the newer stuff.
You don't hear me bashing TNG, TOS or DS9, now do you? And I sometimes watch my TOS era motion pictures. I still love 'Trek. Just not the B & B drek.
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You can't tell just by asking the few diehards around here. You need to ask the general population... and they seem to have many different reasons for abandoning Trek.
Their reasons are there is better stuff to watch on television, better science fiction.
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Anyway, I like Star Trek for what it is - and was. I can see why you don't like Rick Berman. You don't like the last few hundred episodes or so. But I did like them. So why should I have a gripe against the producers?
Because due to their incompetence there is no longer any 'Trek on television. That alone should make you hate B & B.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
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TOS, TNG and DS9 were quality 'Trek. Voyager and Enteprise weren't.
Well, TOS was cancelled after 3 seasons, and the ratings fell for DS9 like they also fell for VOY and ENT. Tells you a story about a fractured audience.
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TNG was 'Trek reinvented. DS9 again was different than TNG. Enterprise was very much like Voyager
I think VOY was great to begin with, but slowly degraded into a show with confusing characters/puppets serving a handful of tired plots. ENT tried to correct these mistakes and succeeded in part. The characters in ENT made sense although half of them were heavily under-used. That is something that has plagued every Trek series except DS9.
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Enterprise was both a failure commercially and creatively
Though it kept the spirit of Star Trek, and as long as it does that, its good enough. It also fared better than most TV series, reaching about 100 episodes.
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Their reasons are there is better stuff to watch on television, better science fiction.
The scaring thing is when people start talking about "a mirror universe series".. Why not do a shoot'em-up show with half-naked women aka "In A Mirror, Darkly" Oh that's creative! And another example of how people don't have a clue about the meaning of Star Trek.
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Berman has kept Star Trek static while television has moved on without him.
Yeah, television is now flooded with reality-shows and then there's the usual old genres, most of which is still lobbying for the lowest denominator. On top of that a few (cancelled) sci-fi shows and let's not forget the increasingly number of paranormal spiritist shows. Its getting more extreme and so are peoples taste.
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The scaring thing is when people start talking about "a mirror universe series".. Why not do a shoot'em-up show with half-naked women aka "In A Mirror, Darkly" Oh that's creative! And another example of how people don't have a clue about the meaning of Star Trek.
have you ever even watched the original series???
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Enemies strengthen you. Allies weaken. I tell you this in the hope that it will help you understand why I act as I do in the full knowledge that great forces accumulate in my Empire with but one wish--the wish to destroy me. You who read these words may know full well what actually happened, but I doubt that you understand it.
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Quote:"ENT was a ratings-failure. But there's a difference between popularity and quality. Lots of crappy music is popular, right? Lots of bad movies get more publicity than Star Trek, right? Why is that? Because artists don't work their way up. They are given a voice when someone with a big wallet happens to like them, or thinks they could be easy to exploit. Maybe their music is so "mainstream" that finding an audience for it, is a safe bet. Who wants a risky investment? Who wants a creative experiment? Nope. A big franchise like Star Trek can't jump around, trying to re-invent itself.
This doesn't explain WHY you think Rick Berman is as great as you say he is. Look at Coto's S4 and compare it to 3 seasons of pure crap. The fan criticism for S4 decreased dramatically because it wasn't the same old lame Trek that Berman and his idiot partner were putting out.
Star Trek doesn't need to reinvent itself. That is like Star Wars recasting Darth Vader. It just needed someone with some talent running it. Which it clearly didn't have for many years and THAT is the reason why it feel into the toilet! The problem with Star Trek can be answered with 2 simple words: Rick Berman.
Quote:"And it hasn't re-invented itself. Rick Berman has tried to keep Star Trek the way it was, applying changes only when he felt it was appropiate and needed. That's good, but maybe it backfired as people lost interest in the whole thing. Its difficult to say whether people has lost interest in all things Star Trek, or just the newer stuff. You can't tell just by asking the few diehards around here. You need to ask the general population... and they seem to have many different reasons for abandoning Trek.
Have you read ANYTHING that people have been talking about when it comes to Star Trek on here? This web site is NOT filled with die hards. Star Trek was runned into the ground by Rick Bermans INABILITY to get descent storylines going. He instead thought that all his crap was gold. Which we all know is far from true. His lazy writting and lack of continuity only demonstrates a lame writer with delusions of grandeur. The failure of Nemesis and the failure of ENT is a REAL blow to a senile old hack whos ego was running on high way to long for no good reason.
Star Trek has NOT suffered from "franchise fatigue". It suffers from "bad management!" A solution that can easily be fixed by FIRING this idiot and getting someone else in charge. Everybody on here (die hards and not) would agree that Rick Berman destroyed Trek. He should of been fired years ago. Now that the Trek money train has come to a hault. Paramount WILL reexamine how they can make money on Trek again.
Quote:"Anyway, I like Star Trek for what it is - and was. I can see why you don't like Rick Berman. You don't like the last few hundred episodes or so. But I did like them. So why should I have a gripe against the producers?
You are giving praise to peopel who clearly don't desever it. To say Rick Berman has been good to Trek is not only a foolish statement but a dumb one to boot. I don't see how anyone could say he is good for Trek when Star Trek has fallen so badly these past few years. It is very clear that Rick is to blame among some other people as well.
Quote:"aa aa, I haven't touched that show, and I won't. I'm a Star Trek purist!
That is good to hear!
How anyone could support this new Rick Berman called "Ron Moore" after the lousy death of Kirk is beyond me.
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Well i just have to ask what is the point of berating and insulting someone whos opinon is diffrent than yours?
What gives you the right to call someone the names and words you call the people on here who dont share your view points.
here in america every citizen is entitled to there own opinon on every thing, from politics to entertainment.
so show some respect, you might not like the fact that there are people out there who enjoy things that you dont, or you might not agree with there views.
BUT SHOW SOME FREEKING RESPECT!!!!!!!!!
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The man and his girlfriend Braga almost single handily ruined Star Trek. Two dude movies
by the way what is a dude movie? im just kinda curious about that. do you mean DUD.
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Quote:"Well i just have to ask what is the point of berating and insulting someone whos opinon is diffrent than yours?
Ohhh here we go. Boo hoo boo hoo!! I am again supposedly attacking some one just because I am calling them out on their opinion. ohhh booo hoo booo hoo. Could some please hit voiceactor76 in the head the needle is stuck! Better yet let me go get his mommy! Here is a big news flash for you, we are on a web site that has "postings" on it so that people can debate, talk etc. So maybe you should go start your own web site where everyone says "please and thank you" and holds hands singing "This land is your land" and then "I love you" by Barney as an encore. Stop being so sensitive! If anyone thinks that Rick Berman has done the Stare Trek franchise "any good" they are crazy! Just look at the state of Trek and try to justify that. But of course you won't that would mean you would have to debate me on points rather than getting off topic with your nonsense. Stick to the facts little man.
Quote:"What gives you the right to call someone the names and words you call the people on here who dont share your view points.
Answer: "Here in American every citizen is entitled to their own opinion".
I will say what I want and I personally don't care what you think. You are just some troll following me around the site now looking for a fight. Still pissed about me going to Novi and you didn't? If you don't like what I wrote then you are FREE to NOT read it or just ignore it.
Quote:"here in america every citizen is entitled to there own opinon on every thing, from politics to entertainment.
You also have the freedom of choice. So again if you don't like what I wrote then you are FREE to NOT read it or just ignore it. So before you start wrapping yourself up in your little flag remember that first. By the way, right after this you give me shit for making a spelling mistake. Your country is suppose to start with a CAPITAL letter! But of course you knew that! Right?? Also I personally don't care if you are from the US or not.
Quote:"so show some respect, you might not like the fact that there are people out there who enjoy things that you dont, or you might not agree with there views.
Quote:"BUT SHOW SOME FREEKING RESPECT!!!!!!!!!
Yawn... The word is spelt "Freaking". oh Mr.Great Amercian!
Respect is earned not given jackass!
Quote:"by the way what is a dude movie? im just kinda curious about that. do you mean DUD.
Let see...
1)whos opinon (The word is spelt OPINION)
2)to there own opinon on every thing (The word is spelt THEIR not THERE)
2)SOME FREEKING RESPECT (The word is spelt FREAKING not FREEKING)
3)here in america (The word America should start with a captial letter.)
If you are going to throw stones about a spelling mistake I would suggest you invest in a spell checker for yourself first, hypocrite! If you can't do that maybe you should get your GED for grade school from somewhere.
Quote:"About the cancellation of STAR TREK ENTERPRISE, Berman once again blames it on so-called "franchise fatigue." "I don't believe that it is a result of the quality of the show,"
Yes it was! HOW THE HELL do you explain the 7-8 million DROP of viewers in the first two seasons? Seasons which were written by his sorry ass! ENT was shit from the start because it was conceived by two incompetent fuck ups!
Quote:""The response that I've given before, that I'll give again, is that I think STAR TREK NEMESIS was a very good movie.
He thinks the movie was good and the fans say it was shit. And what little fans that went and saw it the case crystal clear. The movie sucked and this asshole and the studio just can't seem to get past their own egos!
Quote:"The executives at Paramount pictures and everybody involved with the movie were shocked that it did two-thirds of the business of the last movie.
Oh boo hoo boo hoo the executives were upset! ohhh boo hoo. WHAT ABOUT THE GOD DAMN FANS WHO WERE RIPPED OFF BY THIS PIECE OF CRAP?
Quote:" I don't think that had anything to do with the fact that NEMESIS qualitatively was different than the previous movie. I think it's all part of the same syndrome, which has something to do with the erosion of the fans and the fact that after 700 and something episodes of television, and 10 movies, that people are moving away."
The movie sucked! END of story Rick!
Quote:"About rumors of an ENTERPRISE pick-up by a cable network like Sci Fi Channel, he said, "Unfortunately, our show costs a lot more than their shows do. A lot of those shows are shot in Canada. A lot of those shows are shot with budgets not much more than half of what our budgets are. I think that to continue our show at the level of production we've kept it at, to keep these actors, it would probably be prohibitive to do it on cable. But it certainly would be possible. And the answer is that the powers-that-be at Paramount seem to feel that the time has come to give things a rest."
The powers that be don't give a shit about Trek. They are too busy making crappy programs for their horrible network!
Quote:"When asked about the next STAR TREK feature film, a prequel with an all-new cast of characters to be written by Erik Jendresen, he said, "I think that if this film is made it certainly won't get finished in the next year. If it gets done in two years or three years I think that timeframe for a new, fresh feature with a whole different outlook would be fine."
This whole prequel idea sucks major ass! NOBODY wants it. How sad it is that Paramount thinks they can still jump on the Star Wars bandwagon! Their prequel series failed and so will this piece of crap. And I don't care who the hell is writting it. The idea of doing prequels nows is OVER!
He keeps talking about it being "fresh" yet his sorry old senile ass is still there? Why can't this guy go fuck off?
Quote:"In regards to non-STAR TREK projects, Berman revealed, "I have a number of things that I'm working on. I even have one project that I'm working on with Brent Spiner, in the creative realm as apposed to the acting realm. But we'll see what the future holds."
Who cares? The co written piece of shit movie they did was horrible. Now they think they can do something else? It is called more bad crap.
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Yeah, everyone stopped watching Enterprise because the quality sucked.
It's the same reason why 20 million people stopped watching DS9, because the quality suck...
Wait a second, whats going on here? This doesn't make sense.
Why is Star Trek Magazine still giving space to this idiot? It's the same load of excrement we've gotten from him since the death knell rang for Enterprise.
Of course he's going to blame us for his failures. Enterprise would have been a success if he and Braga had actually made the show a prequel, not a remake of TNG. (After "700" episodes, you think they'd know what worked and what didn't.) As for Nemesis, it failed because it was a terribly written and directed movie.
As for his future, all I can say is: "Say goodbye to all this, and say hello to oblivion."
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, cigar in one hand, favorite beverage in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming WOO HOO - What a Ride!"
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Why is Star Trek Magazine still giving space to this idiot? It's the same load of excrement we've gotten from him since the death knell rang for Enterprise.
You know, you're right. Star Trek Magazine probably shouldn't bother interviewing the guy who's in charge of Star Trek, especially not when he's quite nearly the *only* person who is still working on "official" Trek.
I have to question if you really thought this through before you posted it. I'm curious where you would get your news updates if *you* ran the magazine...
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"You know what six movies average out to be really good? The first six Star Trek movies!" -- Fry, Futurama
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I have to question if you really thought this through before you posted it. I'm curious where you would get your news updates if *you* ran the magazine...
My point was that nothing Berman said in the interview is in any way new. He even admits as much in the interview, reiterating his ridiculous "franchise fatique" excuse, and his boneheaded belief that "Nemesis is a good movie."
As for "news updates," the only news I'd gladly run is the announcement that Berman had been official fired by Paramount and banned from ever working on a Star Trek movie/series ever again.
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, cigar in one hand, favorite beverage in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming WOO HOO - What a Ride!"
Dear Rick Berman
Your recent comments regarding your timeframe for a prequel movie starring an all new cast, which you cite as being two or three years away, prompted me to write you this brief missive.
The timeframe you state puts the film around 2007 or 2008, both timeframes beyond the length of your current contract with Paramount Pictures.
Paramount Pictures has recently gone through a major restructuring in its executive, a fact you cannot have missed since it tied in fairly closely to the reason your series, Star Trek: Enterprise, was finally put out of its misery. Paramount is attempting to rebrand itself, and get away from its current image of an old, penny pinching production company that doesn't take risks. You, sir, are an old, penny pinching producer who doesn't take risks, which is most likely why you've been with Paramount for as long as you have. Unfortunately, sir, you no longer fit in. I wouldn't be making many plans beyond the end of 2006, when your current contract expires, because I find it highly unlikely you will be returning to head up another Star Trek project.
It is good you are branching out into other areas. You're going to need to make money some how, because I think your days of riding the hog and producing crap and labelling it Star Trek are over. Sir.
Just in case you aren't aware, and since you've been so insulated in your own little world for the past 18 years it's likely you aren't, when a production company says they are putting your idea "on the back burner" as you said Paramount has done in an earlier interview, that means its been shelved, and will likely never see the light of day. Perhaps Brannon Braga has a spot for you on Threshold as well. Good luck in all your non-Star Trek endeavors. I for one will never watch, or pay money to see, a Star Trek movie or show that has your name attached to it.
Or star trek anything that has that man's name attached to it. Anyone who thinks Nemesis was a good, quality movie has some serious problems- and this guy is in charge of the entire franchise!
Star Trek is dead to me until he leaves.
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The dog is a gentleman; I hope to go to his heaven, not man's. -Mark Twain
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FINALLY Someone who agrees with, Nemesis was the biggest piece of crap I've seen in my life, it was stupid, annoying and I found some part offensive. I also agree that if Star Trek has a future it is WITHOUT that jackass known as Rick Berman. I hope that there will be a "Star Trek XI" but definitly not with Rick Berman. If Paramount really cares about this franchaise, they will FIRE RICK BERMAN and HIRE NICK MEYER to work on the next film and possible new series
At some level, I think Berman is saying this stuff just to see people bash him. It's probably the only attention he gets these days. To that end, I refuse to craft several paragraphs of destructive rebuttal to his BS.
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The supervisor is Verizon!
I can only hope that he suffers a fatal heart-attack and dies where he stands. :)
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you're fucked in thehead dude..."i hope this man drops dead, so i can sit in my parents basement and watch quality star trek programming" stop being a little internet bitch, get yourselves organized and start a movement to get Star Trek back on the air. Family Guy, boom back...Stargate...boom back. Stop hiding the geek-netherworld that is "the net" and DO SOMETHING *PRODUCTIVE* towards your cause. Wishing for people to die is sick, not funny, rude and discredits any argument you maye have had...legitemate or not. That's my piece...
DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE
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Ghost, I'd say the same thing about you. Bashing isn't getting *so* old. And predictable.
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"I was told this ship was the pride of Starfleet. I find it is small, and unimpressive."
"Funny, I was about to say the same thing about you."
Archer and Gral spar verbally in: "Babel One."
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Ghost, I'd say the same thing about you. Bashing isn't getting *so* old. And predictable.
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"I was told this ship was the pride of Starfleet. I find it is small, and unimpressive."
"Funny, I was about to say the same thing about you."
Archer and Gral spar verbally in: "Babel One."
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