The only thing worse than the decision to cancel Star Trek Enterprise, was the way they decided to end the show. I have been a Star Trek fan for many years and have enjoyed watching all the shows. I have been a fan of Enterprise since the first episode. I really liked the crew and thought over all session 4 was their best so far. They had gone back and connected the show to the original series and had some interesting character development with the crew. So what happened with the final episode? The writers found a way to destroy what they had worked so hard to develop.
I always liked TGN, but ending Enterprise on a holodeck was a bad decision. This was only the beginning of bad choices by the writers. The whole episode seemed depressing and pointless. I never got the connection between Riker’s issues and what was going on with the Enterprise crew, they never really explained what he learned from the holodeck program. The episode did not seem to really be about the Enterprise crew. The only significant thing that happens is when Trip dies to save Archer. But even this is not well written. It is hard to believe that a guy as smart as Trip would chose to commit suicide, when he probably could have come up with a better way to save the day and still live through it. Killing off one of the favorite characters was a depressing way to end the show.
The writers also “killed off” the relationship with Trip and T’Pol. The developing relationship between these two characters has been one of the best sub-plots of season 3 and 4. There has been a “build up” these past two seasons of story lines that seem to be leading to Trip and T’Pol realizing their feeling for each other and hopefully ending up together. In the end of Terra Prime we see them comforting each other after the death of their daughter. Trip tells T’Pol that maybe someday a Vulcan and a human could have a child so that should give them hope. Does that mean someday they will? That’s what fans are hoping for. Then we fast forward 6 years and nothing significant has happened with any of the characters in this time. Trip and T’Pol aren’t together. They’re still on the same ship, there’s no explanation to what happened with the feeling they had, what came between them or how they dealt with the lose of their daughter. Trip then dies and T’Pol seems miserable. She is left alone to mourn the lose of her daughter, her mother and her one true love. Archer goes off to give his great speech that we don’t get to hear. Riker and Troi leave the holodeck like they just took a walk in the park and we never find out what if anything significant happens with the other characters. What a depressing ending! The Enterprise crew deserved a better send off than this one.
As bad as this ending is, I still hope that we have not seen the end of Star Trek and the Enterprise crew. It seems wrong to end the Star Trek saga on a depressing note. The magic that is Star Trek is all about the positive vision of humanity and the hope the lies in the future. I hope there is a way to bring Trip back from the dead, and maybe in doing so bring Star Trek back as well. But before this can happen Star Trek needs new writers and creators to bring new life to the franchise. This may seem unrealistic, but that’s what Star Trek is about, hope beyond what may seem realistic.
I really wish those who obviously didn't bother to watch all of the episodes, because, "Star Trek ended with DS9" -- would just shut the hell up!!!
This "may" have been a finale for Star Trek also, but it was most definately a premature finale for Enterprise, and those of us who watched all the episodes at least once, would have liked to see an Enterprise Finale, not a NG finale encore. It really ruined it for me, as if Enterprise wasn't worth an entire episode, or like, "Hey Enterprise fans, remember to be ready for a future Star Trek movie with our loveable NG cast."
There are those of us ardent SCIFI fans that don't care for the soap opera's like the first 4 NG seasons and the entire DS9 series. Didn't watch any of those! But I have watched all of TOS and all of Voyager and Enterprise as many times as I can. Why? Action! I am sick of the feminized version of ST, where the original idea was compromised to get more female viewers. How is it any different than with Babylon 5 - another horrible Space Opera!!
What killed Enterprise was UPN. It would have succeeded marvelously on the SCIFI channel (frankly, it is in the middle of the pack for the amount of viewers of UPN shows). UPN has become the BET of the networks, which is just fine and I enjoy quite a number of the shows, but how can you follow a black sitcom with SCIFI? I'm not racist in the slightest bit, but I have to admit I just don't see many folks with African heritage at SCIFI movies (probably because they only cast non-whites in token roles).
Hmmmm, lets put a predominatly white SCIFI series on a network with a significant non-white viewer base. Same thing with Voyager. Yes, the UPN network changed their target viewer all the way back then.
"Hmmm, I wonder why it just won't work?" "Let's try to increase viewership of a predominantly white SCIFI show by preempting it every other Wednesday/Friday night for Pro Basketball and then try frequently changing the night it is on TV." "That ought to do it!"
On Friday Night's - it may traditionally be a good SCIFI night (lot's of us geeks stay home with the TV), but why make Enterprise go head to head with all the other Friday night SCIFI series that were already there!
To try to get back the original SCIFI viewership, they tried to go back to a more action based, less character based formula (started in season 3 of Voyager), they evidentally ended up alienating you 'girly' SCIFI viewers (developed by turning ST into a Space opera by feminizing NG and DS9).
Ultimately, it was greed and mismanagement that killed Star Trek.
BTW, I don't think SCIFI fans get 'tired' of a series they love. Look at all the other much longer running series. Evidentally, we don't even need the main characters to stay.
Dan
... and here's what it said:
"Ha, ha. Fuck you, fans. Love, B&B."
Once again, the "great" B&B and their "superior" writing remind us of that famous Bill Cosby line: "I brought you into this world, and I'll take you out!"
The idea probably would have worked a helluva lot better *without* Riker and Troi. Keep the story 10 years in the future and close with the founding of the Federation! Why not? That's what everything was leading up to, wasn't it? Then every character could have had a better sendoff than just kneading dough with Chef Riker.
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LORD EDZO
Imperious Leader - Paramount Ruler - Master and Commander
This was perhaps the worst, low-keyed and totally unimpressive series-finale to date. Sad its was actually a finale to Star Trek. The episode was dully, boring and felt more like a TNG Filler Episode than anything else. They could have made this finale epic to date with some major event foreshadowing the formation of federation and Archer and crew trying their last and best effort to save the day. Yet they choose to make a BLAH TNG episode.
Star trek went out with a whimper. May B&B enjoy destorying Star Trek to the boot.
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I'm not one to say Star Trek is dead or that it's taken a wrong turn, as I'm one of the few who genuinely enjoyed Enterprise and Voyager. But... Even I have to admit that TATV was ...lacking... in what usually makes the show very enjoyable.
The concept was cool, and I totally went into it with an open mind, but like many others, I didn't see the point in Trip's death. He didn't even try any other method to save Archer or the ship. We didn't really need an "ultimate sacrifice" scenario to show us the love and respect he felt for his friend the captain. Nor did we need it to prove that Trip was a noble hero. We already knew that, and I think a simple "good bye" scene between the two of them would've accomplished twice as much on an emotional level as Connor Trineer certainly has the acting chops to pull it off. (ie: the end of Terra Prime when he was grieving the loss of the baby had me in tears).
I did enjoy the attempt at validating the series through the inclusion of the Next Generation cast members, but although the sentiment was there, it was just a little too rushed and overblown to be really meaningful to me. It was a really beautful (looking) and respectful attempt though.
Terra Prime wasn't a whimper. I think I'm more inclined to think of it as the final episode of Enterprise and think of These are the Voyages more as a "hats off" to the fans even if it did fail.
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"Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack. Rule of Aquisition #109." --Quark
But it is still sad, isn't it, to lose a universe as richly evolved as the STar Trek Universe that we have lived in and with since the late 1960s? Whatever the flaws of each of the shows, there was still always that occasional moment when they made you feel a part of something special - some hope for a rich and exciting future. I for one will miss this feeling very much.
But it is still sad, isn't it, to lose a universe as richly evolved as the STar Trek Universe that we have lived in and with since the late 1960s? Whatever the flaws of each of the shows, there was still always that occasional moment when they made you feel a part of something special - some hope for a rich and exciting future. I for one will miss this feeling very much.
...with the numerous statements made so far that Trek ended in '99 with the conclusion of DEEP SPACE NINE, not with Enterprise. I really love that series.
But as far as TATV...so much made no sense at all. Why were they retiring ENT after only ten years in service? Why no mention of the Romulan wars? Are they aware that TNG and TOS weren't the only other Star Trek series? Could they have at least shown VGR flying by DS9 in the short montage in the end? Maybe biggest of all, what in the hell did ENT's last mission have to do with Riker's indecision?
And I have a lot of trouble even caring about Riker's indecision. The only part of TNG's cameo that was enjoyable was Brent's voice cameo as Data. That was the only part of those TNG sequences that felt believable.
This whole Enterprise series has been pathetic from the very first episode to the last.
Star Trek died after June 1999 with the end of the great DEEP SPACE NINE.
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I agree. Neither Voyager or Enterprise had the quality of storytelling nor the depth of characterization that DS9 did. A singularly unimpressive final episode, made more pathetic by the fact that they did not even bother to try and write one with two hours. Perhaps it was due to the budget cut, but compared to All Good Things this was just sad.
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"It's not important to me that people understand me."
Kate Bush
As I viewed the last 2 episodes of Enterprise, I realized that wothout a question the show really needed to be cancelled. Trek is dead since the conclusion of DS9. I still cant understand why DS9 doesnt get the recognition it deserves, but in my opinion TNG went on 1 or 2 seasons too many. Every franchise after that, outside of DS9, was a total waste. I think many fans should consider and do consider both Voyager and Enterprise apocraphal entries in the Star Trek cannon. I read recently in a mainstream newspaper one of the many reasons for Enterprise's failure is that it was always false in nature. A prequel that should not have existed. These are the Voyages was a weak attempt to validate the show into the Trek Cannon, however for reasons for to numerable to list it just didnt work period. It was mild, weak, and tepid. But thats what Star Trek has been since the franchise ended. If this is what Rick Berman and Brannon Braga thought we wanted to see as a series finale, no wonder the show was cancelled four years into its run. Enterprise was creatively D.O.A. until this season. If the only Trek we as the fans are going to recieve is this garbage concieved by corporate executives then I swear even if another Trek is unleashed upon us in the future I will never watch this franchise again. Voyager, Nemesis, now Enterprise, the last few years have been a total embarrasment.
I just watched the episode. Riker's decision is supposed to parallel Trip's decision, not Archer's. That massive misunderstanding on your behalf completely voids your review. Get it?
Picard ~ Riker
Archer ~ Trip
Hence the final scene with Trip and Riker.
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This is a good point, but I find very little parallel in either Archer's or Trip's decisions to Riker's. "The Pegasus" also made it clear that it wasn't entirely about Riker's loyalty to Picard, but as Picard himself would have said, Riker's loyalty to the truth. As I remember the episode, Riker would've made the decision whether he was loyal to Picard or not. The issue of Picard being in the dark was a subplot to the larger issue of Riker having to own up to what he knew was right -- exposing an illegal experiment that cost Riker his personal integrity and his Pegasus shipmates their lives. In the end, Riker's decision has no suitable parallel to anything in the NX-01 scenario so I stand by my analysis.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
I almost laugh myself to death...It’s so comical.
Like I have always predicted, there has to be some sort of phaser fighting or hostage situation in every episode. The final two episodes did not disappoint me. In “Terra Prime”, the spy pointed a gun on Archer and almost held Archer hostage. In “These are the Voyages”, the aliens exchanged fires and almost held Archer a hostage. It is so predictable that even the final episode does not fail this amazing consistency of excellence.
Adventure and exploration? Who cares? What is better than some silly phaser fights on Friday night?
Seen the show. Could they have written a worse script for the last episode?
Awful.
Crap.
Just terrible.
Even had Stargate Atlantis Wraiths rip-offs thrown in there.
And Marina, get on the treadmill next time.
Seen the show. Could they have written a worse script for the last episode?
Awful.
Crap.
Just terrible.
Even had Stargate Atlantis Wraith rip-offs thrown in there.
And Marina, get on the treadmill next time.
Seen the show. Could they have written a worse script for the last episode?
Awful.
Crap.
Just terrible.
Even had Stargate Atlantis Wraith rip-offs thrown in there.
And Marina, get on the treadmill next time.
It seems I hated this episode for the same reasons Steve loved it. Some TNG prejudice is showing there - the TNG scenes don't work any better than the ENT scenes. The teaser was straight out of TNG, the prototype for teasers that do nothing. To try and put all of that blame on ENT is forgetting some of the truly lame teasers that TNG foisted off on its audience. I won't even get into the non-teasers that kicked off VOYAGER episodes.
In some respects, ENT succeeded this season in making a crew that was less superhuman (or Vulcan or Denobulan) than the TNG universe series, which I appreciated. I got sick of seeing smug, self righteous, pompus pricks spouting technobabble every week. Go back and watch some of those TNG episodes that everybody holds so dear and see how those touchy-feeley 80's politics hold up. What other decade would you have put the ship's shrink on the Bridge, sitting next to the Captain?
A friend of mine who worked on the show used to joke about how they'd just have Picard talk the bad guys to death at the end of an episode if they couldn't come up with a decent ending, which seemed to be about 75% of the time.
I'll keep on saying it - the ENT finale is called "Terra Prime" and it airs in the hour BEFORE TATV. Turn off your sets when that episode ends and do something more productive with your time, like carving a phaser out of a piece of soap.
Fans seem to like campaigns where they mail things to studio heads, so here's one: let's all send condoms to the head of Paramount and Rick Berman for the screwing they're giving us on Trek and ENT. It won't change anything but it sure beats sending crackers or tobasco sauce.
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KJB || IGN Trek Report
The contents of this post are the opinions of the author and are not intended to reflect the corporate opinions of IGN.com or IGN Entertainment. The contents may not be reprinted or posted in any other forum, web site or transmitted by any other means without prior written consent of the author. All Rights Reserved.
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S_P_O_I_L_E_R_S
Too old, too fat, should have been a two-hour affair with real meaning.
If Riker needed advice he should have asked Troi, Guinan, and finally Picard, not a bunch of holograms.
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Quote:
It seems I hated this episode for the same reasons Steve loved it.
I loved it?
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
Great review.Have enjoyed yoru reviews over the years. Seems strange that this will be the last one...But hopefully .. some day.... we will be able to look forward to a new TREK review again.
I think a big problem with Enterprise from the start, was that it was intended as an adventure show instead of a character based one. So, love Manny Coto or the Reeves-Stevenses as much as I do, there was never enough room or time to develop the characters in the way that DS9 did. I'm sure they could have done it if they had tried. However, TPTB decided that this is how it was gonna be so don't disagree. It was all about adventure, explosions, etc, etc. instead of truly satisfying character development. I think they could have done something with it if the character templates they started with weren't so sh*tty like the reviewer mentioned.
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I got a chance to watch this episode today. I would like to say that if not for the death of Trip (the entire segment, EVERYTHING, had a flawed execution) this episode was actually pretty good.
I disagree strongly with the review from Krutzler. The ENT portions of the episode were NOT the weakest. I think most people will find that the performances by the ENT crew are all excellent (especially Bakula and Blalock). They did a great job, and many moments you do get emotional. You have to compliment the actors for their work, you can see they weren't enjoying it, but they pulled it off well.
I'll miss this show, because while still flawed in many areas, you do see the potential it had for seasons 5 and beyond.
If there is too much hostility in fandom, I think it is, in part, due to the sense that Berman and Braga have charted a course, and they won't be shaken from it even though it was clearly sending the series to its grave.
Their "vision" of Vulcans, their grasp of philosophy and their insistance on everyman, nothing-special characters is completely antithetical to great Trek.
The result has been disasterous.
T'Pol the crack addict. Travis the forgettable. Malcolm the inept.
And now, at the end of it all, it almost seems that they are giving us the finger. They are in essence saying, "It IS okay to make a show about mundane characters on fairly unimportant missions, who die just as randomly as we do."
The major flaw may have been a deeply philosophical one. First Contact clearly left the berman crew obsessed with ordinary people writing history (Cochran).
And yes, ordinary people can do extraordinary things...but in doing so, they reveal their inner greatness.
Whether they become egotistical (like Kirk), oblivious like McCoy, or simply acknowledge their uniquesness as fact; they ARE very SPECIAL.
Picard...RIker...Geordi...Data....alll very special.
Sisko, Dax, Bashir (eventually), Odo.... all special.
Trip's death doesn't finish a story arc, because alas, there WAS no story arc for the mundane, shallow character. Its almost as if Berman is rubbing our faces in the very concept that killed the franchise.
Then he and others are surprised at the loathing they recieve?!?!
What does he want _ a round of applause?
V
Steve, I think I will enjoy having read this article more than watching the show this Friday. Thank you! I've been saying the same about DS9's quality for years since the latter days of Voyager. All thats left to say in comment to this article is.... Amen.
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"It is with our passions, as it is with fire and water, they are good servants but bad masters."
Aesop (620 BC - 560 BC)
"Really Doctor McCoy, you must learn to govern your passions... They will be your undoing."
- Captain Spock (Much later)
Another enjoyable and insightful review that I can already appreciate without having seen the episode yet. You do really highlight well why this series just didn't take off.
In any case, I just wanted to thank you for all of the great reviews and information you have kept us up on with regard to all things Trek. I know I will continue to visit this site even after the show ends, but I realize it will be another era.
Great review Steve!
One idea that occured to me from what you wrote: There doesn't seem to be any real connection between the moral dilemna Riker is facing, and that of Archer, other than "always obey the boss" hocum. But interestingly, this year the writers introduced a subplot that WOULD have fit the bill perfectly: the Reed/Section 31 subplot that popped up a few episodes ago, and resurfaced briefly in "Demons". This would have been tailor-made for a "moral lessons learned" scenario for Riker, and would have been great fun for the fans/viewers to learn more about that organization, and its workings on Earth and elsewhere. "Alias" in space?
It's a shame because by taking this route, Riker and Troi could still appear (presumably during May sweeps so as to produce better ratings), there would be a (relatively) new territory to explore in the Star Trek world, and Enterprise could go off into the sunset with some form of dignity.
Just a thought...
1. Steve, you're a terriffic reviewer, you never let us down.
2. Since this is the final episode, in this case there should be very clear spoiler warnings. You are being read by as yet unspoiled people all over the world.
This review by Steve is pretty much what I expected from the spoilers & interviews. I don't think I have that big a problem with the little gimmick of Riker as chef. Granted it wasn't necessarily set up throughout the seasons that Chef was a sort of confidante to the crew like Guinan was on TNG but it makes some sense that someone like that might make people over time feel comfortable enough with them to "cry on their shoulder".
But I do wonder if you could clarify a few things, Steve.
1)Do we learn why Shran has sort of fallen from grace?
2)Do we learn anything about the ENT crew as far as what became of them like we saw briefly in IaMD with the Defiant database?
3)Is there any quiet or reflective scenes among the ENT crew as they get ready to move on?
4)Is the Federation signing ceremony brief or interesting?
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1) Nope
2) Nope
3) Brief, yet mild
4) Not even seen...
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"My old friend, this song's for you. Cause a few simple verses was the least that I could do to tell the world that you were here. Cause the love and the laughter, will live on long after all of the sadness and the tears. We'll meet again, my old friend"
Tim McGraw "My Old Friend"
Dedicated To My Home..New Orleans
the thing that bothers me the most about what i have just read is that trip dies for his FRIEND jonathan archer.... a friendship that not only was never developed, but in my view was downplayed over the course of the show.
i must admit that i am glad that it is over. i enjoyed ENT on occasion.... some of the episodes from the end of the the 3rd season and most of those of the 4th were decent. but on the whole, this show has been a kick in the face not only to us the fans, but to star trek as a whole.
if star trek is truly dead, as it seems the press is heralding in every news article i have come across, then so be it. i only wish that like soundgarden, star trek had quit when it was still ahead.
star trek is dead; long live star trek!
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Enemies strengthen you. Allies weaken. I tell you this in the hope that it will help you understand why I act as I do in the full knowledge that great forces accumulate in my Empire with but one wish--the wish to destroy me. You who read these words may know full well what actually happened, but I doubt that you understand it.
So TREK on TV goes out with a whimper. How appropriate. There hasn't been consistently good writing on Trek since DS9 ended it's run in 1999. I won't miss trek so much now that I have Battlestar Galatica is on the air.
Maybe when Battlestar ends it's run (hopefully not for a long time if it stays as good as it is now) Ron Moore can come back and, with Berman and Braga gone, bring a fresh approach to Trek.
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I was musing over the same thing tonight as I was watching ENT. Ron Moore's return to Star Trek would be a wonderful thing.
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To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And, at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between, plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big 'thing.' This is truth, to me.
After seeing "Demons" on Friday, I had the feeling that Enterprise was going to end with a whimper. Not that Demons was a bad episode, but just that it felt like one of those mid-season episodes setting up a larger plot arc. But knowing that Terra-Prime and TATV are the series goodbye is just sad.
Its a shame too, because Enterprise could have redefined Star Trek and gone boldly where no Sci-Fi has gone before, but it didn't.
Such a shame...
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Scientists discover the world that exists;
engineers create the world that never was.
-Theodore von Kármán
After all, aren't you the same guy who blasted other posters by accusing them of throwing bile at B&B, as they themselves (and you mentioned this as well) said that the people on the internet just dish out bile? And what are you doing on the internet? That's right!Throwing out bile like the rest of those posters.
Although I don't claim to predict the future, I do believe that 1)This episode will get the highest ratings for some time, and 2)Your very own poll will show a very convincing and overwhelming "10-Best ever!!!" choice. Even despite your hefty influence in Hollywood.
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"We are ALL Hezbollah."
-- Data's stirring rallying cry from his famous post, and quite possibly the next catchy slogan in the elections this November
LET THE TRUTH BE HEARD!!!
I'm Berman My Man, official Voice of the Great Left(TM) and I approve of this message.
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Quote:
Although I don't claim to predict the future, I do believe that 1)This episode will get the highest ratings for some time, and 2)Your very own poll will show a very convincing and overwhelming "10-Best ever!!!" choice. Even despite your hefty influence in Hollywood.
Well, I made sure to put in my "worst" vote, here and on TV Tome, where it's currently ranked at 98 out of 98. It's the only Trek episode I've ever given a 0 star review to. It's bad ENT and bad TREK. It's just plain bad. Anybody that's getting all gooey and nostalgic for Frakes and Sirtis' appearances needs to take off their rose-colored glasses. I don't care how big they make Marina's hair, it doesn't take your attention off of her widening rear end (which they make sure to show us multiple times in the episode). And where's all of this weight loss that Frakes supposedly went through? Any profile shot seems to lend credence to the "craft services are open!" theory. These two look as tired as the franchise has become. It's time for a reboot.
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KJB || IGN Trek Report
The contents of this post are the opinions of the author and are not intended to reflect the corporate opinions of IGN.com or IGN Entertainment. The contents may not be reprinted or posted in any other forum, web site or transmitted by any other means without prior written consent of the author. All Rights Reserved.
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I've done the opposite: watched an episode and then written an analytical critique without lobbing personal insults.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
it is so infuriating to be told by Braga that we are too stupid to understand his series becasue its character driven rather than plot driven. If Id seen more than seven episodes I could probably refute that it not plot driven, but season three was certainly nothing but plot.
And what character can hold a candle to even TNG standards of character. If it was in the scripts the actors would have grabbed it, but all we got is Backula furowing and gritting his teeth and being pissed at every one all the time. Im glad we can put it all behind us now.
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"You see stars that clear have been dead for years/
But the idea just lives on..."
-Connor O'Berst
"I don't mind the streets, but it's wet tonight."--Maya Keyes, after being throw out by her father Alan Keyes for coming out
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Quote:
it is so infuriating to be told by Braga that we are too stupid to understand his series
Its also very infuriating to read fanboys bitching about how much they hate berman braga etc.
its a freeking tv show watch it for what it is, entertainment.
if you love it great, if you dont fine move on to the next thing. dont whine and complain about something YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER.
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Quote:
dont whine and complain about something YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER.
You should take your own advice. You're constantly whining about people whining, and you have no control over it. Don't you think that this contradiction makes you look a little stupid?
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To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And, at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between, plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big 'thing.' This is truth, to me.
Well spoken Steve, well spoken.
I guess this is how we say goodbye to ENTERPRISE.
What can I say. I came to this board as a defender of a show that was doomed from the start. I enjoyed every single episode except this one.
Maybe because it's the finale that I didn't enjoy it. Or maybe it's because it was plainly written as B&B saying "sorry, we don't know what we're doing".
The problem is that these two will never face up to that fact. If you were to see them at a resteraunt and tell them your true feelings as a fan, most likely they would just say: "well, it was really fan fatigue, we've seen the polls and etc".
Truthfully, I don't think they would be able to stand five minutes in a Trekweb live chat because they know they wouldn't be able to deal with those of us who are actually angry at them.
Trips death was moving and touching. In a way that most other characters have never died before. Spock died to save the entire ship. Kirk died to save a planet and an entier universe.
Trip died saving his best friend. That's something that is actually moving through out this episode. It wasn't an act to save the ship, or the Federation, or anything else.
Trip knew his commanding officer, and best friend was in trouble, and he had to do something about it. I have to say I wish for a moment that it didn't end like this.
Maybe if the story had been altered to show a threat to the infant Federation and the ENTERPRISE NX-01 having to come to the rescue would have moved us all. Yet, as I said before, this is a filler episode at best, making me wonder where the real finale will air?
The sad thing is, for all of us ENTFANS!, our cries of "foul" will fall on deaf ears and no one will care.
Two men who really should not have been where they were are almost getting away with murder, and it just boils my blood that they're getting away with it scot free.
Unfortunately, I lost a show I loved dearly. Yet, Trek fans all over lost a series that they loved dearly.
However, for as long as I post at Trekweb, I shall always attempt to keep the memory of this show alive, and remember the FIRST crew of the Starship Enterprise...
...may she rest in peace...
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"My old friend, this song's for you. Cause a few simple verses was the least that I could do to tell the world that you were here. Cause the love and the laughter, will live on long after all of the sadness and the tears. We'll meet again, my old friend"
Tim McGraw "My Old Friend"
Dedicated To My Home..New Orleans
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Quote:
I shall always attempt to keep the memory of this show alive, and remember the FIRST crew of the Starship Enterprise...
Yes.
James Kirk
Spock
Dr. Leonard McCoy
Montgomery Scott
They were the first crew of the Enterprise.
As much as I've enjoyed (for the most part) this season, the hakneyed, poorly realized stand-ups that populated the NX-01 never came close to being bold, thoughtful frontiersman that they should have been. Compared to the original crew they are pretenders.
They are irrelevant to Trek history because Berman and Braga made them so.
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"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.
"If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry
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Why did you make this post? You know it's only instigating an arguement altogether! I was referring to the ENT cast and you knew that...I have no emotional connection to TOS beyond the movies. There are only certain episodes of TOS that I find remotely entertaining. I could go off on how cheesy TOS was yet I don't because I know it would instigate fights with people on this board.
That was completely uncalled for...
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"My old friend, this song's for you. Cause a few simple verses was the least that I could do to tell the world that you were here. Cause the love and the laughter, will live on long after all of the sadness and the tears. We'll meet again, my old friend"
Tim McGraw "My Old Friend"
Dedicated To My Home..New Orleans
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Why did you make this post?
Because you made what I thought a silly attempt to equate ENT with anything that came before it, particularly TOS. It doesn't even come close.
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There are only certain episodes of TOS that I find remotely entertaining
How sad for you.
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I could go off on how cheesy TOS was yet I don't because I know it would instigate fights with people on this board.
After 40 YEARS? Yes they do, particularly compared to the clean, anticeptic "doctor's office-ey" look that you were no doubt first exposed to with TNG But they still hold up much better than more modern pieces like the original BSG.
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"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.
"If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry
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There are only certain episodes of TOS that I find remotely entertaining
How sad for you.
That's your opinion. I can't stand most of TNG for it's bland characters, lack of repercussion and absurdly perfect feel. I'm not saying it didn't have great moments, but on the whole, I feel TNG is bland. VOY might have been a reharsh of TNG, but I find it a bit more entertaining and somehow more realistic (though I agree a lot of good plots were dropped such as the Maquis/Starfleet thing). I know it didn't send as many messages as TNG (which is what ST is all about), but I prefer good entertainment without a message to boring as hell show with a message (though the best is, naturely, a mix of the two). ENT in it's first 2 years was a lot like TNG and VOY and even though I liked it, I can't say it was great. I feel that in it's third season though, except for a few misteps, it was quite good, especially in the end (without the alien Nazy thing). As for season 4, which is how ENT should have been all along, it's great! DS9, IMO, is the best ST show by far. Nothing is even close to it. Character drama, great storyline, evolution of characters and universe... I can't say for TOS, and so I won't. I have seen 'Arena' and the ending half of 'Balance of Terror' only. And though 'Arena' I felt lacked a point except for having Kirk running around shirtless, 'Balance of Terror' was great.
That is how I classify ST, but maybe you don't. We all have different opinions, different values, different tastes. ST tells us we should accept and try to understand people who have different opinions than ours. Yet, you just bitch around because you don't agree with someone. If you love TOS so dearly, the best way to show it is by living by it's principles.
How low have ST fans become?
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Lincoln Six-Echo: Who is 'God'?
McCord: You know when you really want something, you close your eyes and wish for it really hard? God is the guy that ignores you!
- The Island
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ST tells us we should accept and try to understand people who have different opinions than ours. Yet, you just bitch around because you don't agree with someone
He expressed his opinion. I expressed mine. I certainly don't expect to "convince" him of anything. It all comes together to form the rather interesting tapestry of life.
That's IDIC. That's Trek's value.
That's it.
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"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.
"If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry
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You didn't really bitch, granted, it's just in the way you said it. Like it was an absolute truth and anything else was wrong. Taking his words and using them to your advantage. It's also a lack of timing. Some people are sad to see ENT go and you just ditch the show. It's like twisting the knife in the wound (can I say that? It's actually a French expression, I hope it exists in English...)
You have the right to state your opinion, but use your words carefully so it is clear you are stating your opinion. And try not to kick someone that's down, the way you said it added insult to injury.
Anyway, let's just all stand together and morn the end of the Star Trek era (wether you liked or not the latest incarnations).
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Lincoln Six-Echo: Who is 'God'?
McCord: You know when you really want something, you close your eyes and wish for it really hard? God is the guy that ignores you!
- The Island
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Like it was an absolute truth and anything else was wrong.
It is when people make statements without all the facts, then you're just engaging in self-affirming hyperbole.
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Some people are sad to see ENT go and you just ditch the show.
If by ditch you mean bailed out on...no. I have seen every episode. Voyager was abyssmal for the most part as well and I've seen every ep. Partly because every week I held on to both a futile hope that they would get better and partly because I'm of the belief that one should have the full picture of what they're talking about before they speak.
To me it's like someone trashing Buffy or Angel never having seen either. By emphasising FIRST EntFan in my mind diminished TOS...as though somehow the idea that Kirk and Co. as written owe anything to Archer, et al has any merit. And there's simply no comparison. There's nothing of them in TNG or certainly TOS or DS9. What similarities exist between them Voyager's characters are NOT positive things by any stretch.
I said what I think. Never said you would (or have to) like it.
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"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.
"If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry
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This "Trek value" bullshit you cling to also talks about not stomping all over others beliefs. So nice try...but no cigar...
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"My old friend, this song's for you. Cause a few simple verses was the least that I could do to tell the world that you were here. Cause the love and the laughter, will live on long after all of the sadness and the tears. We'll meet again, my old friend"
Tim McGraw "My Old Friend"
Dedicated To My Home..New Orleans
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ST tells us we should accept and try to understand people who have different opinions than ours
....so it's his "bullshit" as much as anyone elses.
And Trek oftem, to be completely frank, "stomped on other's beliefs" whenever they strayed too far from the main character's vision of "right"
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"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.
"If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry
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It's just the way you said the first Enterprise crew is TOS is like disregarding ENT as canon. In terms of time, ENT came before TOS, so technically, the first Enterprise crew is from the NX. I'm not saying it is better or anything (I actually quite like the TOS movie crew), it's just a time issue I guess. I didn't really mean to sound disrespectful or anything toward you, but just show you that the way you wrote your answer was rude to people who like ENT. Anyway, I didn't write this to start an argument...
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Lincoln Six-Echo: Who is 'God'?
McCord: You know when you really want something, you close your eyes and wish for it really hard? God is the guy that ignores you!
- The Island
Steve, that doesn't sound very promising.
So....Archer disobeys order to go pick up Shran--who is in trouble basically because he's a thief and stole that amethyst from the new aliens of the week. Wow. I guess they have to screw everyone over.
While I disagree that Frakes and Sirtis look the same as they did eleven years ago that's hardly the point anymore. After a creative rejuvenation this season, this is a shame. It really is.
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Wrapping the story in a TNG frame only highlights these inadequacies and the indignity of not jettisoning this losing formula long ago. "TATV..." doesn't fail ENTERPRISE because it features the TNG cast, but because it can't rise above the problems that dogged the series from day one. Even in death, the show defiantly sticks to an ill-conceived concept of characterization and seems to lament that the audience just never "got it." Sadly, it's the producers who rarely ("Similitude," "Cogenitor," "The Forgotten") "got" what real character drama is all about.
I wonder if they will EVER grasp that...even a year or ten down the road. Are they honestly so full of themselves that VOY's failings and ENT absolute, unqualified failure doesn't begin and end with their inability to grasp words like "hero" or "character?" But it's us...WE just don't care anymore. Good God.
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"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.
"If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry
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TATV does sound like a whimper,but I disagree
that STENT was not as good as previous Treks
,it just was not given a chance by fans and
studio execs alike,The show was just getting
warmed up ,especially at he end of second season
and whole Xindi story arc.
I have been watching Star Trek in all its forms
and never get sick of it.
It is pity,tat all origin stories will not
be realized,it would have been nice to have
the formation of the federation take season
with really cool links to the original series.It is really sad.
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....with the end of DS9. Voyager suffered many of the same problems as ENT.
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,it just was not given a chance by fans...
12 million turned up for the premiere. Certainly seems like a "chance" to me.
[q]and studio execs alike,
They gave it 4 years. Any show performing so poorly on a real network would have been axed in 3 weeks. That's a fact.
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The show was just getting warmed up...
You'd think the B & B have had enough experience to this point that they'd know how to find the show's "legs" in short order. The first two seasons were pretty bad and, while the Xindi arc had some interesting elements it just seemed like a half-assed effort to make Enterprise relevant to Trek (See..see...How can you not be watching? THIS Captain saved Earth before Kirk or anyone else. Without him the Jim Kirk you all looooooooooove so much wouldn't even exist. So there.
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"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture." ---Pastor Ray Mummert speaking of those who favor Darwinian Evolution over Intelligent Design.
"If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty Humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being." ---Gene Roddenberry
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