For the first time in a long time Berman speaks with some sincerity and he gets completely ripped for it.
You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
Luckily the small vocal minority on these Trek websites do not represent the majority of Trek fans around the world.
Berman and Braga have made numerous mistakes in the past 5 years, but I give them great credit for bringing some of the best Trek to us over the years. The "gems" of Trek they have overseen surely outweigh their mistakes. Let's face it - the worst Trek is still better than most other television out there because it's part of Gene's legacy and vision. And that can only be a good thing.
"There are a lot of people who criticize us for saying what I'm about to say but I do believe that there was some degree of fatigue with the franchise. I think that we found ourselves in competition with ourselves. I think that after eighteen years and 624 hours of STAR TREK the audience began to have a little bit of overkill with STAR TREK and I think that had a lot to do with it."
Rationalization is defined as the act, process, or practice of devising self-satisfying but incorrect reasons for one's behavior. It's a basic psychological defense mechanism. We make "socially acceptable" excuses for our mistakes in an efort to "save face."
If I had a lover who consistently told me the way she liked to be "loved," yet I insisted that my way was best and ignored her requests for that which she craved, eventually I would find myself alone with no one to "love" but my friend Rosey Palm and her five friends. If I was a car salesman and a couple were to come in wanting to buy a sportscar, yet I offer them the best damned station wagon on the lot because "I" think its a great car, they will leave to go somewhere else and I will have accomplished nothing. Face the facts, Freddy. Just because "YOU" think your way is best doesn't mean your audience will. Basic principle of business: Get something others want, and let them have it... for a price. RATHER than bad business practice such as this: Get something YOU like and offer it to others... for a price... not selling it because you are not understanding the basic concept of supply and demand.
Do you remember, early in the book, when the diplomat came to the planet and stayed for three days, and they typed up everything that he said, and by the time they crossed out all of the meaningless double-talk, he hadn't said a word by the time he had left?
Need I say more?
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"You know what six movies average out to be really good? The first six Star Trek movies!" -- Fry, Futurama
Hello, this will be my first ever posting on this site or any other for that matter. As a fan of Star Trek since the beginning of TNG, I have been reading this site since I found it back in college. Like all of you fans, I too am very disappointed with the cancellation of Trek. But, there are some things to consider. For starters, many of you blame "B&B" for ruining Star Trek? If this is so, how do you explain TNG which was run by Berman from season 3 to the end, DS-9, and Voyager and did you hate this "Enterprise" which you fought so hard to save? Maybe you should re-direct your anger and frustration at the network which deciided that garbage like "America's Top Model", and "WWF Smackdown" are better. Of courese, those programs get higher ratings than Enterprise. We must all remember that Star Trek in any form ie TOS or Enterprise is a business and when put on network television cannot survive. How many sci-fi shows have been raoring successes on network television? I can think of "X-Files", maybe Lois and Clark, but not Trek. Remember that the origional Roddenberry show failed after 79 episodes with only competition betweem 3 television networks; a shorter run than Enterprise which has competed with 4 other networks and God knows how many cable stations. The problem isn't with "B and B" or with Paramount or the quality of the show. It is with the fact that people are not watching Star Trek. We see new crews, ships, sets but there are only so many stories to be told over 40 years, and maybe it's time to except that people are bored. Are we sick of the TNG cast? I love them and I loved "Nemisis", but no one went to that as good as it was. So let us say good-bye to this wonderful series, hope a new one comes up someday and then...hope that someone watches it, so it may survive. Remember, all good things must come to an end and...live long and prosper.
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First of all, welcome to Trekweb as a poster and I hope you post more often in the future.
Second of all, I must respectfully disagree with your assessment.
I too was disappointed with the cancellation of Enterprise, but I did not fight to save it as I would have The Next Generation or Deep Space Nine. I do recognize the changing nature of network television, and I think that you are astute to point this out; however, I believe those of you B&B Bashers or Network Haters alike are overlooking the possibility that it was indeed a complex range of factors that took Trek to the grave. It wasn't just the network catering to ratings-friendly shows or simply poor writing and creativity on the part of B&B. It was equally both. I wish more people would say that.
The landscape of American television viewing and producing has changed radically of the last decade or so, particularly with the rise of reality shows. Shows like America's Next Top Model are not only breaking ratings records for UPN, they are dirt and they are dirt cheap to produce. Any way you figure it, science fiction is expensive to produce because one of the greatest elements to Sci-Fi is its visuals and special effects. That is a large part of the appeal.
That being said, the writing on Star Trek has gotten a lot worse since the days of Deep Space Nine. Berman states:
"I am very happy with the show for no other reason then that it was a great group of actors playing a great group of fully realized characters. We hired seven wonderful actors and the characters ... I think that our characters were growing..."
Whatever the intention of Enterprise, their efforts to create a character-driven show ultimately failed because of poor writing. How much did Mayweather grow? or even say for that matter? How much did Reed grow? Hoshi? All this talk of a character-driven show makes me all the more upset because the way I see it, dozens of episodes were squandered on meandering plots that fleshed out none of the characters in a significant manner at all.
Characters cannot be developed through dialogue alone, there must be events shaping the lives they live in ways they did not foresee. How fleshed out would Picard's character have been had he never been assimilated by the Borg? How much would we have understood what it was to be an android, an artificial construction of the mind of one man, had we never met Soong or Lore? How much could we have understood the depths of Odo's isolation among the solids had he not eventually come face-to-face with his people? There is no such thing as a character-driven show. Every show is plot-driven because it is the creativity of the plots that reveal the characters. This is where Enterprise failed in its first two seasons. And where it has succeeded to some extent in the previous two.
I believe that Berman and Braga simply have some fundamental misconceptions about how to create a story and how plot develops character that has plagued Voyager and Enterprise to the demise of all Star Trek.
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"What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived."
~Picard
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For starters, many of you blame "B&B" for ruining Star Trek? If this is so, how do you explain TNG which was run by Berman from season 3 to the end
Roddenberry was still alive until sometime in season 5, and while not involved day-to-day, still had some say as to what was going on. Also, TNG was set up by Roddenberry, and Berman couldn't do much to mess it up.
DS-9
If you knew anything about the behind the scenes production you would know Berman had very little to do with DS9 other than helping Piller come up with the premise, and giving his thoughts on what they were doing. The infamous Behr and Berman talk where Behr said he wanted the Dominion war to last 2 or 3 years, and Berman laughed and said it should only last 2 or 3 episodes. Behr didn't listen, DS9 was better for it.
and Voyager
7 years of garbage, and I barely watched it after season 2.
and did you hate this "Enterprise" which you fought so hard to save?
The first 3 seasons of Enterprise was more of Voyager. This season was better. But, I never fought to save Enterprise in any way whatsoever. My logic was if Enterprise dies, maybe Berman will be let go from Paramount. Let one die so the other could happen.
It's sad that after 2 flops at the box office, and a dismal 7 year series and another dismal 4 year series, there are people out there who still think it isn't Berman's fault. I ask you? Who's fault is it then? Let me guess, you think it's the fans fault. Because we didn't watch the latest pile of crap with the words Star Trek on it, it's our fault. Sorry, doesn't wash.
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I agree with a lot of what you said,about
Berman,I have read his statements and
interviews,this man who does not
really respected the intelligence
of trek fans at all e.g.promises alot ,but delivers little.
By the way can anybody tell me why has
John logan has not had the chance to,write some episodes for STENT,it was stated he wanted to,as being a fan himself?.
Quote:
"We needed 'Jonathan Archer' to segue into being an epic STAR TREK hero and we felt the best way to do it was to find a perspective to look back.
What...the...hell? This whiny, stupid, man-child is an "epic Star Trek hero"?!
Holy shit. I cannot believe I just...Oh, wait, that was Berman talking. Okay, yeah, I can buy that. Berman needs-desperately needs-to believe his creation, Jonathan Archer, is some sort of super heroic being, somehow superior to all who have come before him. Superior to Kirk, superior to Riker and Picard (since Riker is going to participate in one of his adventures to "get perspective").
I hope this man never works another day in his life in Hollywood. I hope Star Trek XI is taken from him and he is banned from tinsel town forever.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
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Hey asshole. Glad to see you're still around on the boards.
Wonder if there's a way I can block you in talkbacks as well?
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"Worlds may change, galaxies may disintegrate, but a woman always remains a woman."
--James Kirk, "The Conscience of the King"
"Vulcan children are never late with their sehlats' dinner."
--T'Pol, "The Forge"
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Quote:
Hey asshole. Glad to see you're still around on the boards.
Hmmm, sarcasm meter is registering a weak response...
Quote:
Wonder if there's a way I can block you in talkbacks as well?
Guess you'll have to ask Steve there, Chris.
And considering how fast you posted methinks perhaps you were eagerly looking for my posts? Anxiously awaiting a chance to respond to me? I'm flattered. ;)
EDIT: Sorry, had to fix the quote there.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
... and we should be content with that.
Oops: again I push "new post" instead of "reply to post." Anyway, this is a reply to Steve's post down below. Sorry.
Hi Steve
I actually don't know you at all really, other than you run the site. But what I've read and so on in the past about you on here says that you know Brannon on a somewhat personal level. Acquaintances or something. Anyway, my complete dislike of both of them (although, in all fairness, Berman is the one I think is the big problem, Braga was just not exec material, but a staff writer yes) maybe colors my judgement, but maybe your acquaintence with Brannon colors yours?
Brannon said "Terra Nova" and "Demons" "tap into very ENTERPRISE-oriented themes and character arcs." Direct quote. To me, a characters arc should necessitate some sort of character moments, a character development, or in this case, a resolution of some sort (being the finale). Basically, it has some sort of character portions to it. Then, in reference to "These Are The Voyages" he says: "we knew we wanted to get out of a totally plot-driven story and do something that was really character-oriented and centered on the internal dynamics of Enterprise and the people onboard." To me, that's a contradiction. How you can have a 2-part episode that deals with character arcs and call it purely plot-driven does not make any sort of sense. Then, how you can say the finale deals with the internal dynamics of Enterprise and the people on board when it's about Riker and Troi *watching* the crew on a holodeck (which would not give us character moments other than ones Riker or Troi are involved in which obviously didn't happen when these events originally took place) also makes no sense.
Yes, I generalized the holodeck usage in the finale. However, Generations used a sci-fi method to link 2 different series together. There it was just 2 captains, but the thing is it was a sci-fi method to link the past and the present Star Trek's together. And we've seen about a billion holodeck episodes, did we really need one more to send off Enterprise?
My speculation as to why Jolene did not attend the wrap party is that... speculation. However an article on Cinescape.com which has no real preference to Star Trek one way or the other had an article on the wrap party. They mentioned Trineer was absent because he was at a convention, and they said Jolene was absent, but didn't say why. Seems odd to me, considering she called the finale "appalling" and regularly spoke out about Berman's way of producing the series that she's not at the wrap party. No reason is given as to where she was, and it's just kind of "well, she just wasn't there." She was on the show for 4 years, and one of the main 3 cast members. Some mention of where she was would've made sense. Instead, it's hush hush and the spindoctors took over.
There's a saying, go with your first instinct. Had I sat back, thought about what was said in the interview, and maybe later written a post, it probably would've been a little tamer. However, Berman & Braga (and especially Berman) have given me very little reason to hand them any slack. So I typed. The post may have been harsh, but I stand by what I posted. They mishandled this series, the finale, and most of the franchise for the past 10 years or so. Braga should go off and prove to people that he's actually capable at production with Threshold, if he is. And Berman needs to say, "I'm done, it's someone else's turn" and leave the franchise. I'm not saying leave Paramount, but find work doing something else. Leave Trek alone because it's painfully obvious to me he's burnt out and done.
As usual, I see nothing worth criticising in this interview. B&B did the best they could. I love ENT.
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you need to lay off the acid, kiddo.
how can anyone not see the little regard they have for the show that has paid their salaries for the last 18 years or so? i can see that you are quite naive and all, but are you that blind? do you really think that enterprise was GOOD for the first 3 seasons?? i cant count how many times i had a great laugh at the cheesy plots, shitty storytelling, and horrible acting that enterprise had in abundance. like that time that trip talked to degra about his sister?? that was classic!!!!!! whoo-boy!! good times were had by all, at least at my house!
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Enemies strengthen you. Allies weaken. I tell you this in the hope that it will help you understand why I act as I do in the full knowledge that great forces accumulate in my Empire with but one wish--the wish to destroy me. You who read these words may know full well what actually happened, but I doubt that you understand it.
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Oh yeah, and the rest of Trek was a consistent paragon of acting and storying telling. I agree that ENT had a fair number of cheesy episodes, but no more so than any of the other series.
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'It was beautiful, we were selling rich women their fat asses back to them' - Tylor Durden
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That must be a matter of tastes. You say I've got a bad taste, and I say you've got a bad taste. I liked ENT all the way. Unbelievable, eh? But actually, I find people like you unbelievable.
I should not be surprised at these two dolts anymore, but here again, they demonstrate their total and utter hatred of TOS.
To wit:
Quote:
Both producers offered appreciation to fans for their years of support and said they hoped that "These Are The Voyages..." will pay homage not only to ENTERPRISE but the last eighteen years of the STAR TREK franchise
Last eighteen years?? Um, excuse me, but didn't Star Trek begin 39 years ago, with Star Trek (TOS) in 1966? Wasn't Enterprise supposed to be a "prequel" to TOS, since TOS IS the beginning of Star Trek? Shouldn't the finale been about really bridging the ENT era with TOS?
No, guess not. As far as B & B are concerned, Star Trek began with their involvment. Forget that stupid Roddenberry guy and his cheesy, cheap little '60s show.
Quote:
The idea of 'Commander Riker' having a big decision to make in his life and deciding to go onto the holodeck of the 24th century Enterprise-D and study certain events that happened at a very crucial time near the end of the mission of Jonathan Archer would be a good way to pay the homage to these characters that we wanted to.
What is this "pay homage" crap? Why are they paying homage to characters they themselves created? If any "homage" was to be paid, it should have been to series that started the "franchise." I'm astounded that these two fit in the same room, given the overinflated size of their egos and their arrogance.
Quote:
"We also wanted to come up with a concept that was different and special and was able to straddle two generations of STAR TREK; something interesting and not just do a straight-ahead episode," offered Braga.
"Different and special" are hardly words Braga should be using, since neither he nor Berman seem to know what those words mean, as evidenced by the first 2 seasons of ENT. And the "two generations of STAR TREK" they are straddling should have been ENT and TOS, not TNG.
Quote:
"We did feel we were utilizing continuity from TOS, we were doing it in smaller doses," Braga says. "But we were definitely doing it beginning with the pilot with references to Captain Kirk's original log and Zephram Cochran and many others. But it definitely was in smaller doses and it wasn't until season four when we consciously decided to go deeper and stronger with that.
"We consciously decided"??? LOL!! I believe this is called "self-delusion". Considering that the only writing credit Braga has this season is the finale, and that Manny Coto, Mike Sussman, and the Reeve-Stevens wrote the bulk of 4th season episodes, I hardly think Braga is in a position to talk about "we" in this context.
Small doses, huh? They must have been so small as to be almost invisible. Changing the names of things, like "phase pistols" instead of phasers, or "captain's starlog" for the simpler "captain's log" is hardly what I call paying attention to continuity.
I could go on, but I'm tired and it doesn't really make any difference anymore. It's clear these two fools don't have clue one, and don't care. It's obvious they hate TOS and tried as best as they could to distance "Enterprise" as far from TOS as they could.
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, cigar in one hand, favorite beverage in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming WOO HOO - What a Ride!"
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I hope you people that have been spewing the hatred toward B&B will find a healthier vent in the future. Could they have done a better job on ENT? Probably. But they've been doing this stuff for 18 years, sports fans. That's a long time, an eternity, in the entertainment business. Maybe the franchise fatigue factor they speak of is their own creative drive. I'm not sure BUT NEITHER IS ANY ONE ELSE. You claim that they hate TOS. Get over it. Would Trek be better without Berman at the helm? Maybe, if that person were Coto. Fresh voices, new perspectives can help, but cool it with this hatred crap. It's beneath all of us.
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I don't hate either Berman or Braga. I don't know them well enough for that. However, I do know bullsh*t when I read it, and this "inteview" reeked of it. Neither of these men have a clue as to what Star Trek is about, and it's for certain Berman has no idea how to construct an interesting, original story. Braga has admitted in other interviews that he knew nothing about Star Trek, never watched the original series, and didn't even really want to be a writer, but a director.
Is it any wonder, with these two in charge, that ENT was cancelled?
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, cigar in one hand, favorite beverage in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming WOO HOO - What a Ride!"
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Unfortunately, "cooling the hatred" would require rational thought, and there's a definite lack of that among many of the people posting on this board. If there's a bright side to Trek's hiatus, it will be that some of the passion people have channeled into irrational hatred will be forgotten, the bottom-dwellers might move on to other things, and will stay gone when Trek returns.
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Quote:
I hope you people that have been spewing the hatred toward B&B will find a healthier vent in the future.
This was healthy. Healthy for the 'Trek franchise. Good riddance, B & B.
Quote:
Could they have done a better job on ENT? Probably.
No, a prequel was obviously far beyond their talents.
Quote:
But they've been doing this stuff for 18 years, sports fans. That's a long time, an eternity, in the entertainment business. Maybe the franchise fatigue factor they speak of is their own creative drive. I'm not sure BUT NEITHER IS ANY ONE ELSE.
There were alternatives. They could have brought in more help like they did with Manny Coto. Instead they decided they didn't need help, they could write and produce this series all on their own. That's arrogance, man. Pure arrogance.
Quote:
You claim that they hate TOS. Get over it.
Then you explain why it took them four years and Manny Coto to finally get this series to feel like a prequel to TOS.
Quote:
Would Trek be better without Berman at the helm? Maybe, if that person were Coto. Fresh voices, new perspectives can help, but cool it with this hatred crap. It's beneath all of us.
You just said it; fresh voices, new perspectives. But these jackasses were too full of themselves to see they needed that perspective. No, Berman figured since he was the heir apparent to 'Trek and Braga had been writing for the series since TNG neither one needed help.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
Has there ever been an interview where B&B actually admitted that part of the ratings decline was their own fault? In all the interviews they've done, whether it was for Nemesis, Voyager or Enterprise, they've always blamed external factors, the network, the studio, the competition, even the fans. When Nemesis tanked, they blamed it on the fact that it opened 5 days before LOTR. When Voyager's ratings fell, they blamed it on the fact that are so many other sci-fi shows. And now Enterprise bombs and they blame UPN. I'm not saying these other things weren't factors, but you would think they would share some of the responsibility. On other hit shows, if the ratings dropped for a season or two, I'd always hear the producers admit that certain creative choices of theirs were to blame. These people had no trouble admitting that they tried something and didn't work, but I've never seen B&B do that. Braga has repeatedly said that the premise of Enterprise was why fans didn't embrace it. That's crap. The premise, like that of Voyager, had lots of potential. The problem has always been execution. And they wonder why fans hate them so much. Maybe if they showed a little humility, people wouldn't bash them as much.
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"Maybe in another thousand years, we'll have teleportation and all that other Star Trek stuff. But with our current technology, we can't even make William Shatner's hair look real." --- Bill Maher
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Actually if you read my article on the wrap party two weeks ago and watched my video interview with Brannon, you would have seen him being very honest about the mistakes made in ENTERPRISE. Frankly, I think Brannon was very gracious with questions that he probably wasn't too thrilled to answer.
Check out the article and videos here
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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Admitting you made a mistake long after it can be corrected is of little value. It's 20/20 hindsight. Not to mention more than a little insulting to all the people who pointed out the mistakes as they happened. And not all of them used four-letter words.
By the way, answering uncomfortable questions comes along with any high-level position. So does accountability.
Too little, Too late.
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FrequencySpike
Diplomacy: the fine art of saying "nice doggie" while you're looking for a rock.
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But now you're complaining about something else. The person above stated "Has there ever been an interview where B&B actually admitted that part of the ratings decline was their own fault?", which my post clearly answers with a resounding "yes". Whether you think they should have rectified or admitted mistakes earlier is an entirely different issue and certainly up for date.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
"...I remember the first season of TNG, we got 200 letters because by mistake there was an optical where a photon torpedo came out of a phaser port."
Jackass! It was Season Five! "Darmok"!
Tool.
It sounds like they are taking credit for season 4. THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! Man I hate these guys.
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"You played Macgyver for 7 years and you can't get us out of this mess? We've got a beltbuckle, shoe lases and a stick of gum! Make a nuclear reactor!"-Amanda Tapping Blooper from Stargate SG-1
C'mon folks. Maybe B&B are strung out here, but the *real* problem is UPN. UPN is a pathetic, FOX wannabe and can't produce anything worth watching anymore. You watch; UPN's ratings will fall and gradually die over the next couple of seasons unless something really new comes along.
Enterprise overall may not have been the bees knees but compared to anything else UPN offers it's stellar entertainment.
Thank goodness for Netflix and their like, eh?
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Your right... It is a lot of UPN's folt ENT is gone. They are so dumb. They only advertise ENT on their own network which no one watches. And they wonder why the ratings are low...
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"You played Macgyver for 7 years and you can't get us out of this mess? We've got a beltbuckle, shoe lases and a stick of gum! Make a nuclear reactor!"-Amanda Tapping Blooper from Stargate SG-1
The more they talk, the more obvious it is they are incredibly stupid.
"We needed 'Jonathan Archer' to segue into being an epic STAR TREK hero and we felt the best way to do it was to find a perspective to look back."
If he hasn't been portrayed as an epic Star Trek hero by the end of the 4th season, do you morons really think that having Riker just tell us he is an epic hero is going to make it all better?
"We also wanted to come up with a concept that was different and special"
Because we've never seen a holodeck story, or having our characters interact with hologram characters. That plot is as old as "The Big Goodbye" in TNG's first season, idiots.
"the two prior to the final episode are a two-part story and do tap into very ENTERPRISE-oriented themes and character arcs and if these episodes had aired as the final episode we would've been very happy and it would've felt very good and epic to us."
In other words, fans, "Demons" and "Terra Nova" are Enterprise's 2-hour series finale. "These Are The Voyages" is just Berman and Braga patting themselves on the back for all the money they made the past 18 years, but promoting it as a "valentine" to the fans. It's really "f*ck you all we made more money off this sh*t than any of you will see in your entire lives!"
Oh, and this is good. They contradict themselves IN THE SAME INTERVIEW.
Referring to "Demons" & "Terra Nova":
"the two prior to the final episode are a two-part story and do tap into very ENTERPRISE-oriented themes and character arcs"
Then, referring to "These Are The Voyages":
"But then when it came to the very last episode we knew we wanted to get out of a totally plot-driven story and do something that was really character-oriented and centered on the internal dynamics of Enterprise and the people onboard."
So are "Demons" & "Terra Nova" character arc oriented or not Brannon? You idiot. Apparently in one sentence they are, and then in another they're actually plot-driven and the finale is character oriented on the people onboard Enterprise. Yet the finale stars 2 people from TNG who apparently get a lot of screen time... so obviously they are lying about one thing or the other. Berman & Braga: chief spindoctors for the Star Trek franchise for the past 18 years. Idiots.
"There were a couple of people who were slightly uncomfortable with the fact that we have NEXT GENERATION characters in the show and it is a different kind of episode, but there were no serious complaints."
I don't know... Blalock calling it "apalling" sounds pretty serious to me. Trineer said something to the effect of "they did what they felt was right" and then added "I know that's not a positive reaction" or something close like that. Blalock didn't even attend the wrap party, presumebly because she was so disgusted with the way the series ended. Keep spindoctoring you idiots.
"None of the actors have seen the episode so they can't be dissatisfied with how it came out [yet]."
They were in the f*cking episode you idiot! I think they know their scenes, and their co-stars scenes, and they know that some guest stars who weren't even on their show got 1/3rd of the screen time! Whether they saw the f*cking thing all in order or in the way their scenes were filmed, they have a pretty good idea of how it serviced their characters, and obviously a few outspoken ones felt it was done poorly. Dimwit.
"Braga says the episode is a "thank you" to the fans of not just ENTERPRISE but STAR TREK as a whole."
Yeah, thanks for making us millions of dollars while we shoveled this sh*t on TV and slapped the words Star Trek on it.
"We did feel we were utilizing continuity from TOS, we were doing it in smaller doses,"
I call bullsh*t! Where the f*ck were the Ferengi in TOS? Or the freaking Borg? The tricorder T'Pol used was handheld, but Spock's was the size of a VCR! The phasers were compact, and TOS ones looked like big ray guns you'd see in "Mars Attacks." The NX-01 looks like it could give DS9's Defiant a run for it's money, and the NCC-1701 was a big hulking starship. Were the Suliban ever mentioned on TOS? No. Were the Xindi ever mentioned on TOS? No. How about those transporters, that holodeck, and photonic torpedoes, and of course a cloaking device? Idiots. They violated continuity whenever they could because they wanted to show the old-school fans they could do it better. Morons.
"We live and breathe this continuity and we're dealing with every element to try and get this continuity going but at the same time [we're] on a weekly basis trying to create an entertaining television series."
Why create the Suliban? Why not use an ESTABLISHED race we saw little of, like Rigellians, Andorians, etc. Why create the Xindi? Why not use the Romulans, the Klingons, etc. You idiots violated as much continuity as you could and the sad part is you don't even acknowledge that you did it. That's how stupid you are.
"there are rules within the continuity of STAR TREK that contradict themselves."
Yes, like how Archer could meet the Ferengi, and Picard would have no prior knowledge of them. How Archer can meet the Borg, and Q (an omnipotent being no less) sends the Enterprise-D a lot of light years out there to meet them for the first time. I think Q would know they'd met before. There's a lot of continuity that contradicts itself, and since you've been running it for the past 18 years, you're freely admitting that you had a lot to do with that. You are a moron, Rick Berman.
"we tried to do the best that we could."
Your best wouldn't be good enough for a Saturday morning cartoon, let alone a primetime TV show.
"We felt there was more potential to come, the series could've continued and we had a lot more that we would've liked to do.,"
Who's this f*cking "we"? Manny Coto has come forward saying HE had ideas for the 5th season, but he never mentioned "we" had ideas. Braga, you were getting your soon-to-be-cancelled (before it even airs) Threshold pilot done, and Berman you were beating the drums trying to get a Star Trek XI going. You handed Coto the reigns, told him, "This is the last season, have fun. We get to write the finale. Bye" and f*cked off. Jerks.
"We set out to do a different kind of show that was more character-oriented and that's what we did and we're very proud of the first couple of seasons of the show."
Well, at least there's 2 people on the planet who liked the first 2 seasons of Enterprise. Too bad 10 MILLION other people didn't, eh guys?
"it was a great group of actors playing a great group of fully realized characters."
That group being Scott Bakula, Connor Trineer, and Jolene Blalock. Those other 4 people in the opening credits? They were set dressing.
"I think that we found ourselves in competition with ourselves. I think that after eighteen years and 624 hours of STAR TREK the audience began to have a little bit of overkill with STAR TREK and I think that had a lot to do with it. If you take a look at the last feature film we did, NEMESIS, which I still think was a fine movie, it did two-thirds the business of the previous movie."
If you say it enough, to enough people, maybe, JUST MAYBE, someone out there will believe you, Rick. I find it fascinating that he's got the line memorized now, right down to the number of hours of Star Trek. And yet, in the same breath... "by the way we're making Star Trek XI." You're full of sh*t Berman, and you know it.
"we never set out to do ENTERPRISE in any kind of 'rest on your laurels' fashion."
No, that was Star Trek: Voyager, Star Trek: Insurrection, and Star Trek: Nemesis. Enterprise was your attempt to one up TOS, and when you hacks ran out of ideas, it became Voyager version 2.0.
Braga, I thought you were leaving. You're like the uninvited guest who just won't leave. Go play with Threshold for the week or so until it gets canned.
Berman, go work on your next big flop, Star Trek XI: Starship Troopers.
The fans aren't tired of Star Trek, they're tired of the both of you morons spindoctoring everything to sound like it's the fans fault Enterprise, and Star Trek hasn't been popular. Not once, let me say it again, NOT ONCE have either of you admitted that you can't write a character oriented series to save your asses, and you fell back on action oriented, plot driven crap because that's all you know how to do. Don't say that's what the fans wanted. That's all you knew how to deliver. You morons calling the first two seasons of Enterprise character oriented is a joke, and what makes it even more funnier is that you both believe it!
Notice how they're all executive producers, yet Berman & Braga do their interviews, and Coto does his own separate from them? Coto knows to distance himself from these two idiots because when Berman's contract is up he wants to pitch a new Star Trek idea to Paramount and doesn't want Berman following behind him like a puppy going, "Can I help, Manny? Hmm, can I? Can I?"
Wow that was one heck of a rant. I feel better now. All you ENT gushers, go ahead and flame me. I don't really care. I know this season has been remarkably better, and that's all the proof I need that these two nimrods have been the problem all along.
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You expect two people who've spent their entire career in Holly-weird to be honest about anything? Face it, Hollywood producers spin things so much they stir up a breeze. Expecting Berman and Braga to be honest about the failure of ENT is like expecting gas prices to go back to below $1 a gallon. 'Tain't happenin', McGee.
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A generation which ignores history has no past and no future. -- Robert Heinlein
PCLinuxOS
falcon
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I think you need to go outside, take a walk, and get some air.
There are a lot more important things to be this angry about in the world.
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"We're starfleet officers....weird is part of the job!"
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I actually wasn't angry in the sense that I was going to throw something. I was frustrated I guess is the better word. I'm tired of Rick Berman and Brannon Braga twisting and turning things to suit them, and to make them look good. Tired of them implying it's the fans fault that we're too dumb to understand good TV, and that they did nothing wrong with Voyager, Nemesis, or Enterprise. I'm actually just fed up with Berman more than Braga. Braga has some talent, and we've seen it in the past. But I've seen really nothing from Berman that warrants him being in the position he's in, making the decisions he's making, and basically just running Trek into the ground. He needs to go, and he needs to go about 5 years ago. Anyway, yeah, I've got other things to worry about then Star Trek. I just thought I'd vent for a time. Vent over.
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I'm going to have jump in here and do a little defending. Brannon did not contradict himself in talking about the last two episodes in relation to the final episode. He said that the second to last two episodes deal with ENTERPRISE-exclusive content and plots and arcs, and that the final episode is less plot-driven and more character-oriented. An episode can deal with character arcs and still be predominantly plot-driven and everything we know about second to last two supports the notion that they are indeed plot-driven episodes, wrapping the various story threads of the series. Meanwhile, the final episode is more about the character-oriented exploration of Archer's character and his decisions during this particular crisis. Brannon's characterization of the episodes, considering he read/wrote the scripts and none of us here have seen them, can hardly be contested legitimately and you didn't do so here. Rather, you're just spewing bile.
Also, it is silly to say that an episode involving the holodeck means it is not original. What Brannon and Rick were talking about clearly was this particular scenario in which two series directly connect to each other through this device of the holodeck -- which is actually appropriate since it was invented in "Encounter At Farpoint" and became a fixture of TNG.
Furthermore, although I have yet to see the finale, I think the idea of bookending the 18 years with an homage to TNG is possibly a very fitting end for the series. As to your assumptions pertaining to why Jolene Blalock did not attend the wrap party, that's pure speculation. Both producers acknowledged that not everyone was thrilled with the TNG tie-in, but frankly who cares? It's not surprising that some people who worked very hard on the show for four years and perhaps aren't the biggest TNG fans might feel that the spotlight is being taken from them in the finale.
What I didn't include in this interview was a remark Brannon made to effect of the first feedback you always get from the Internet is from the people who hate an idea. Sadly that has held true once again.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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I hope in the end you turn out to be right, Steve, but I still have huge reservations and I still believe this is wrong. It's not fitting at all. If it were my favorite show-DS9- and they wanted to insert characters from TNG as an excuse to do one more TNG episode using up DS9's last hours, I'd be livid.
My response to the idea that TNG's presence in the finale somehow validates ENT's place in the canon-*BULLSHIT*. If you're a fan of the show, then that is all you need to feel validated. For example, I know the characters on DS9 are epic. Sisko saved the AQ and next to literally became a God, Kira--well, let's just say Xena Warrior Princess had nothing on her, and all of those other characters earned their place as heroes. Do I need Riker of all people to say Sisko's name to feel like Sisko was a hero? Hell no! Voyager and Enterprise fans can say the same about their favorite characters, I'm sure.
I know that B&B felt like it was the last time they'd get to visit their precious TNG(as if that horse hasn't been killed and beaten enough!), but I don't see the reason for it to be a bookend. IIRC, the "Frasier" finale was NOT about "Cheers".
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Steve...you do realize that Riker is going to be dressed as chef and "counsel" some of the NX-01 crewmembers as he interacts with the holodeck program, don't you? There was a picture of him as chef in TV Guide talking to Travis in a scene. They confirmed this.
I'm sorry, Steve. Usually, waiting to see an episode before judging it is sound advice but this finale sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. It's not only Jolene Blalock who's openly criticizing it. Insiders at the other BBS--people who have seen it--people like Morpheus and Quills who have perfect track records for spoiler accuracy have all opined to a person that the finale is lousy. There's not a positive adjective to be had over there. "Suck," "lousy" "garbage" and "shit" are the terms of choice and these people are like you in that they usually advise people to wait and judge. Their uncharacteristically and overwhelmingly negative reaction to it isn't promising.
How is TNG an appropriate bookend anyway? That doesn't make sense. Trek didn't start with TNG. Riker is literally my least favorite Trek character of all five series. I always found holodeck episodes particularly lame, and all the insiders confirm that he and Deanna get a full one third of the screentime. Call me a bile spewer, but what is there in this finale to be positive about? My least favorite Trek character of all time is the focus of the episode; it's filled with holodeck nonsense and this is the last new episode of Trek we're ever going to get.
If ever there were a time to be negative, I'd say this is it. I'm afraid that Rick and Brannon have royally screwed the pooch this time. That's two series that are going to be remembered as ending on an extremely sour note. Why couldn't they just have stopped with Terra Prime? I don't understand why Rick and Brannon had to stick their noses in and undermine the fine work the staff was doing this season. They had absolutely no business insisting that this script (which they admit they wrote last year) be used.
To think that this episode could have actually focused on ENT's characters' reactions to the formation of the federation. Wow. What a bullet they dodged not doing that, huh? Focusing the finale of a series on its own characters? What a stupid idea that would have been, eh?
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Who cares was "insiders" on a BBS say? Most Internet people are negative with a capital N no matter what the episode. Personally I love TNG and think it's a great idea to bookened modern TREK wih TNG, the show that like it or not is responsible for the existence of the STAR TREK franchise as it is today. The ENT crew get their ultimate swan song in the second to last two eps, and you know damn well that if the last episodes did NOTHING special but were just straight ENT plots, people would be crying "my god, Rick and Brannon are so callous that they didn't even have the decency to write an episode fitting to be the finale for the last 18 years of all STAR TREK!" So yes, the bashing at this point is really pointless. Watch it, then judge. And don't tell me it's a bad idea because it involves the holodeck. If they had used time travel instead people would be up in arms about that!
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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You can be an apologist for B & B all you want, Steve, but that doesn't change the fact that ENT went from 12 million viewers for the pilot to less that 3 million for most of its four seasons. If that doesn't speak to the fact that B & B mismangaged the series from day one, what will?
And again, I have to reiterate, Star Trek DID NOT begin with TNG, as much as you and B & B would like to believe it did. It began with "Star Trek" in 1966. Without TOS, there would not have been a TNG.
How should ENT have ended? With a two hour finale centered on the founding of the Federation. We should have seen an older T'Pol on the NCC-1701 (under April's or Pike's command), invited to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the founding. That would have been a more appropriate "bookend."
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, cigar in one hand, favorite beverage in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming WOO HOO - What a Ride!"
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Your post demonstrates what's so silly about the online criticism. Who's being an apologist? I'm merely defending Brannon from some specific criticism of his latest comments. This discussion doesn't even go beyond that.
As to whether ENT should or should not have included TNG characters in its finale, personally I like the idea. But maybe that's because I like TNG's characters more than ENT's anyway and I look forward to seeing a send off for the entire franchise. I'll also wait to pass judgment, like so few around here actually do.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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Maybe "apologist" was a bit harsh. I'll concede that. And I have no problem with the fact that you like TNG. I like TNG as well.
BUT, I'll say it again at the risk of being a broken record, TNG does not represent "the entire franchise," if by "the franchise" you mean ALL of Star Trek. ALL of Star Trek began on September, 1966 with the first airing of "The Man Trap." That's what I object so strongly to, the fact that TOS is being ignored when it should have been front and center, ESPECIALLY for the finale.
EDIT: Have you forgotten the last three minutes of "Zero Hour"? (I know I've tried). Do you really think the people responsible for the worst cliffhanger ever can deliver a finale that will in any way shape or form "honor" the franchise? Can you really blame us for being cynical about TATV?
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, cigar in one hand, favorite beverage in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming WOO HOO - What a Ride!"
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But complaining about lack of TOS is silly. The point is to cap this 18 years of ST, which did start with TNG. TNG was a phenomenon, much moreso than TOS ever was during its run. The point that B&B have acknowledged is that they wanted to pay homage to THIS 18 year period and cap it with what began it, so it makes perfect sense for it to utilize TNG and not TOS. They've done plenty of TOS homages with Trials and Tribble-ations and Flashback and Generations and this entire season of ENT for that matter.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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TOS became a phenomenon after its run, Steve, and it has endured. In another decade, people will still remember Kirk and Spock and McCoy. Will Riker? Who's that? Troi? Who's that? It is completely disingenuous to say that the finale should only honor "this 18 years of Trek."
TNG was not all that and a bag of chips. There's a reason its movies started to fail. TOS, while dated, retains its charm, its fun, its hopeful message. TNG doesn't age well at all because it preaches at people. TNG forgot it was the journey towards a hopeful future and a better humanity that was important. Its humans were already perfect.
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This is such an idiotic debate. TNG was a television phenomenon by the end of the third season, that is a fact whether you like it or not. The fact that it even went into movies proves that it was a phenomenon long before it ended. Honoring this 18 year period of STAR TREK has nothing to do with TOS and doesn't shortchange it either. It doesn't take a dolt to see the obvious. TNG started it all in 1987 without which there would be no bloody DS9, no bloody VOY, and certainly no bloody ENT. So yes, it's very appropriate for a final episode to pay homage to the "next generation" of STAR TREK series.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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We're not trying to hurt your feelings or undercut your love of TNG, but what's "idiotic" is your insistence that "TNG started it all in 1987." It's irrelevant whether TNG was a bigger "phenomena" than TOS. The point is that Star Trek: Enterprise was billed as a "prequel" Star Trek, and that has to take TOS into account. Yes, TNG began 18 years of nearly uninterrupted "Star Trek," that's true, but it's just as true that without TOS, there would not have been a TNG. This is not a chicken or the egg argument, but simple, undeniable fact.
If B & B really wanted to "honor" Star Trek, and bring the entire "franchise" full circle, we would have seen T'Pol on the NCC-1701 recounting or reminising about the events leading up to the founding of the Federation. THAT would have been the appropriate homage to Star Trek, not to the "next generation."
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, cigar in one hand, favorite beverage in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming WOO HOO - What a Ride!"
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Steve, you sound as defensive as an ENT fan. I never figured you for one of the hardcore "TNG is practically perfect in every way" crowd. Go figure. Without TNG there wouldn't have been a bloody DS9, bloody Voyager, and certainly not a bloody ENT?
Without TOS, there wouldn't have been a bloody anything. That includes TNG, Steve. At least now I understand why you're defending the finale's concept. Only the hardest core TNG fan would do that. Will and Riker being in one third of this finale is a mistake. Writing it as an episode of the next generation (which Brannon admits he did) is a mistake. Riker dressed as "chef" interacting with the holodeck program is a mistake. Basing the "goodbye to Trek as a franchise" (and why is it a goodbye if this movie is supposedly coming out in 2007?) on a decision that we already know Will made in Pegasus is a mistake. What about us fans who stuck in there until the bloody end who hated Riker and Troi?
30 seconds. An aged T'Pol at the launch of the NCC-1701. A CGI shot of the ship. Voila. ENT is tied into history. Fade to black.
18 years of experience producing Trek--how is it that Rick and Brannon couldn't realize that this would have been so much more appropriate as a goodbye to the franchise? That makes me sad. To say goodbye to the franchise as a whole you bookend ENT with Trek's beginning. That is TOS. Will's decision to tell Picard about the phase cloak in Pegasus does not encapsulate the entire franchise.
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Where did I say TNG was perfect? The point is that without TNG there would be no ENT and TNG started this whole 18 year cycle so the notion that it doesn't serve as a nice bookend to the last 18 years is ludicrous. Whether you think it's a good choice or not is a different matter.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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Well this is just going in circles, because the other side will say that's irrelevant because TOS started it all and without TOS, TNG would not have existed. And you'll just keep saying TNG started this 18 year period.
But it has nothing to do with TOS or TNG. It's about Enterprise and giving that series an appropriate send-off. And no offense, but some people lost perspective on that. Here's another reason this seems so unnatural to me:
Enterprise, at its conception, was not supposed to be seen as one of the "modern day" Trek series. IIRC, ENT was supposed to be the first Trek series in a new post-modern era, the first Trek series of the new millenium. This is ENT's time. It doesn't belong to TNG whether you feel TNG was responsibe for it's creation or not. TNG was thanked with movies...two movies too many, to be honest.
We bookended the TNG era with Nemesis. Remember that one? The one where they blew up Data to celebrate the festivities? Well, that was their creative decision. That was the capper to the 24th century and the 15 years of Star Trek that had preceded it.
I've seen Star Trek as having basically 3 different television eras which not-so-coincidentally were all set in different centuries. First, TOS. Second, TNG, DS9 and VGR. Enterprise was supposed to be the third. What are we bookending, exactly? An era that didn't involve Enterprise, that's what. That's part of the reason this feels funny to me. Sure, Enterprise was part of this 18 years, but was set in a different time and was specifically designed to be set apart from its three predecessors.
The idea of ENT's being a bright new era for the franchise failed miserably, but there's no sense revisiting TNG when it's been revisited on Voyager and DS9, in the movies, and even ENT earlier this season when Brent Spiner came on the show. It's redundant, and this redundancy comes at the expense of screentime that was ENT's.
THAT SAID, I hope "These are the Voyages" is ENT's best episode. I hope it's up there with "What you Leave Behind" and "All Good Things"...what I DON'T want is for it to become another "Endgame" which is the epitome of a finale that missed too many opportunities and never addressed what the show was all about. TATV's focus is not entirely on ENT's characters so already I have trouble seeing it addressing what the show was about(a show should be about its characters). We'll all see, won't we?
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Quote:
THAT SAID, I hope "These are the Voyages" is ENT's best episode. I hope it's up there with "What you Leave Behind" and "All Good Things"...what I DON'T want is for it to become another "Endgame"
As someone who has been spoiled on about 95 plus percent of the episode's content, please don't get your hopes up. There are about two good scenes in it, and that's it unless you just love Will and Deanna and enjoy seeing characters interact with holodeck simulations. The episode focuses on them, their perceptions, and Will's decision in the TNG episode "Pegasus." The Enterprise characters are a means to an end for Will Riker's decision, which is inexcusable considering the looming you know what. The ENT characters don't even get a scene where they all congregate (also impossible because of the looming you know what) and say good-bye to each other like in "All Good Things." Sirtis said that herself in the TV Guide article. She said she felt bad because "the Enterprise cast doesn't get a chance to say goodbye to each other in the episode like our cast did." That's pretty damning coming from Sirtis herself.
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steve, i believe you're 1000% wrong about that. if it had ended with just ENT crew, no one would have lashed out the way you imagine they would. in fact, they would probably lament the ENT cast more than anything. how can you not see this easy point?
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LET THEM DIE!!!
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With all due respect, Steve, I hate TNG and I think it's an awful idea to end ENT with an episode that Brannon admits is focused on Riker trying to make a decision (the one he made in "Pegasus" to tell Picard about the phase cloak) that we already know he made. These particular insiders, four of them, have all seen the finished product. These particular insiders are usually exactly like you, saying "wait till you watch to judge," but they aren't acting that way with this episode, Steve. They're all being overwhelmingly negative about this particular episode. That gives me pause because these particular insiders aren't usually negative, Steve, They aren't the first ones to bitch. They're usually just like you, chiding people for prejudging an episode sight unseen. That's what makes me think the Bees have screwed that chihuahua a big one.
If B&B hadn't written this episode....in fact if B&B hadn't written the final episode period...people would be ecstatic. They wouldn't be complaining because Sussman, Coto, or the Reeves-Stevens would know better than to give one third of the screentime to a character from another series and make him the focus. Steve, that tells the ENT fans (the fans who are left, who stuck in there) that their show isn't good enough to stand on its own. That tells these fans, who would like to see what the ENT characters thought about the final days of their time together, that the ENT characters' thoughts aren't important. We're going to return to our "glory days" of TNG instead. Then the bees made the idiotic decision to market it as a "valentine to the fans." People who aren't spoiled aren't going to take that to mean that one of the major characters takes a dirt nap which we all know he does. What's worse, Morpheus says the dialogue during the death scene is so bad that it makes it meaningless, that it's nothing but a plot device thrown in for shock value, that the attack is random. He says, "if you're expecting something as poignant as when Spock died in TWOK, get that idea out of your head right now because it doesn't play that way." Then we go back to more Will Riker. I'm not particularly concerned with what Will Riker thinks about the death of a character he never met. Some valentine.
The problem is that Riker is hardly an icon. Troi certainly is not. I reiterate--it is not proper to bookened with TNG because TNG was not the beginning. TOS was the beginning. It doesn't make any sense. Why did there have to be a "gimmick" at all? Why weren't the ENT characters good enough? Why do they need an appearance by other characters to validate their place in Trek history?
They don't. I so wanted the last episode of "Enterprise" to be something special. When I heard that the Bees were writing it I was saying, "Please, please, please don't let them mess it up." Unfortunately they have. I'm so disappointed by this. :( Now we have two series that are going to end badly.
30 seconds, the end of Terra Prime. An aged T'Pol standing alone with a voice in the background speaking to the crowd about the launch of the NCC-1701 with its captain, Robert April/Christopher Pike/James Kirk. One CGI shot of the NCC-1701. Fade to black. 30 seconds. ENT is connected to the future. We see T'Pol's face looking bittersweet. We hear the name April, Pike or Kirk. We see the ship.
Voila. ENT is connected to the future. No Riker. No Troi. No holodecks. No premature dirt naps. Happy fans. That's what Sussman, Coto, or the Reeves-Stevens could have/should have/ probably would have done. Now doesn't that sound a little better than a TNG love fest with Troi and Riker trying to fit into their old uniforms, Steve? That's what we would have gotten had B&B kept out of it. It's a shame they didn't.
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I've gotta say your ending makes more sense and has more class than this Riker/Troi guest appearance.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
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Thank you, katefan.
It's so sad because it didn't have to come to all this anger. It would take 30 seconds. It wouldn't cost anything. It would be a true bookend since TOS started it all. One shot of T'Pol in old age makeup, we see the crowd; we hear the voice saying Pike is taking this starship on its mission; we see one CGI shot of the ship. The end.
The only people thrilled about this finale are the hardest core TNG fans. I know plenty of TNG fans, my sister included, who think it's a terrible idea because they realize that it's going to shortchange the fans of this show and it's pretty disrespectful to this cast. Like Steve says in his post, which explains why he's defending this finale--he likes the TNG cast more anyway. Well, some of us don't like them more, Steve. I don't know what's worse, frankly. The fact that B&B did it or the insistence of (some) TNG fans that "it's a send off for the entire franchise. TNG was popular. You should be grateful." That is so condescending, the refusal to acknowledge that the ENT fans and cast have a right to be ticked. If TOS characters had been the focus of the TNG finale, its fans would have been livid but do you hear that bit of self awareness?
No, you don't. Well, you sucked anyway. Let the real Trek characters come in and be the focus of the finale. How can this be a sendoff for the entire franchise? Where are the TOS characters? Where are the DS9 characters? Where are the VOY characters? Why are Will and Deanna more important than anybody? Brannon's saying he wrote the episode from Will's point of view. I don't care what Will Riker does. I don't care what Will Riker thinks. I don't care about Will Riker, period. I never cared about Riker. I thought he was a pompous ass.
Jolene may have been the only cast member to openly criticize so far, but that's changing. At the con in Adelaide last Saturday (where season four hasn't started yet) the fans asked Trinneer what he thought of the finale. I don't think any of them knew what happens to Trip's character. What a moment that must have been for Trinneer, having to hold his tongue. Ouch.
Always more tactful that Jolene, CT said that he didn't want to spoil anything since season four isn't airing there yet but that no, he didn't like it either (heck, but how could he and Jo know anything according to Brannon--they only acted in it). Casey Biggs was there. Apparently he's seen it and he was more emphatic than Connor. He told the crowd it was a terrible finale. Then Connor quickly changed the subject to the baby he and his wife are expecting. Said he'd rather talk about something he likes. LOL!! Can't say I blame him.
These two idiots couldn't produce their way out of a wet paper bag.
"The fanbase erosion started long before ENT"
Yeah, it started right after Gene died and you two screwheads started fucking with the show. There's a reason TNG season 7 had a ratings downer: you took over. There's a reason DS9 had only half the ratings of TNG: you were half involved. There's a reason VOY's ratings were smaller than that damn ugly little ship: you two were in charge.
And there's a reason ENT is getting cancelled: you two are in charge.
There is no Star Trek franchise fatigue. The fans are @(@#(!& fed-up with the B&B era. Please make it die.
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He doesn't like the fact he can be flamed on the internet, as opposed to fans just grumbling and ranting with friends and at conventions. Boo-hoo!
Too much of what was done w/ Ent early on was second-rate, with no regard to tie in with TOS, which WOULD have made the show a hit by the second season. It's been said before and let's say it again, time for Berman + Braga to step aside and let those w/ truly fresh ideas AND and appreciation of other eras/ time periods of Trek to come aboard. And regarding a movie w/ a new, young cast? Betcha it flops miserably. Why? Trek is more about weekly television than the feature films, even with the success of the TOS films in the '80s.
And Paramount/Viacom -- figure it out: You lose your core fan base, you're NOT going to get that many people outside of it to fill that demo/money-spending gap. Period.
Follow-up comments are appreciated.
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Listen to yourself. Please, listen to yourself.
In the space of a single hateful, disgusting post, you managed to:
a.) Advocate violence against two people who have done absolutely nothing to you, other than produce a TV show you didn't like. "Why can't someone arrange a ST6-style assassination attempt?" indeed.
b.) Personally attack the intelligence of the same two individuals, who somehow still managed to out-class you in their own comments in every single way.
c.) Spit in the face of Gene Roddenberry's life, work, and legacy. Yes, you. Not these producers you hate with such passion. You stand there, claim to be a Star Trek fan, which by implication means you hold to his belief that humanity could rise above its baser instincts...and yet you say such miserable, sickening, awful things. And in the process you paint all of fandom with your brush. How dare you.
Have you ever stopped to think how much good you could do with all that passion you're using to personally attack people who have done nothing to you but produce a damn TV show you didn't like? Have you stopped to listen to your own words, and wonder what the hell is wrong with your priorities that makes you so hateful? Okay, you don't like the show, then just don't watch it - don't suggest violence against the producers. Roddenberry would roll in his grave.
I'll brace for the sarcastic, nasty, and unintelligent reply. But, like Roddenberry, I'll hope for something better.
STFU.
And no, that's not "Star Trek Fans Unite!"
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They just don't agree with us!
Let's send Rick 200 more letters. It wasn't a photon out of a phaser 'port'. It was a phaser beam out of a photon tube. Nah, I'm sure they've had enough grief.
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"Outer Space: The Last Frontier.
These are the trips of the Star Trek Enterprise. Its five year plan calls for us to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly fly where no man has gone in space. Live long, and be happy."
Patrick Stewart--SNL, Stardate 9402.05
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