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Death and Remembrance in "These Are The Voyages"? - Finale Rumor Mill Spinning Fast (SPOILERS)

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By GustavoLeao / 12:54, 2 March 2005 / Enterprise

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Several rumors about the STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE series finale have appeared today on the net, rumors that TrekWeb has been unable to officially confirm or deny. However, we have been able to ascertain to our satisfaction that a portion of the below information may accurately describe some of the episode's plot.

The rumors, surfacing at TrekBBS, go something like this: 'Trip Tucker' dies at the end of the episode purportedly titled "These Are The Voyages". The death occurs in a holographic program on the holodeck of the U.S.S. Enterprise-D, which 'Commander Riker' and 'Deanna Troi' are observing, according to the speculation. If true, the rumors suggest that the episode may largely take place in what turns out to be a holographic representation of historical events, viewed from the perspective of Riker and Troi at some point in the 24th century.

This would mesh with Manny Coto's claim that the final episode, penned by Rick Berman and Brannon Braga, would not involve time travel. Jonathan Frakes previously confirmed at a convention that he and Marina Sirtis indeed appear in the final episode, which will air on UPN May 13th at 9 PM.

This information is preliminary, of course, and entirely rumor.



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Here's my idea for the final episode: | Report this post to moderator
By: Mardus (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:08:18 on Mar 06, 2005

http://trekweb.com/stories.php?aid=422627f91118b&tid=&cid=422bdf78be6f1#422bdf78be6f1


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"The final episode is ... appalling." | Report this post to moderator
By: Davidude (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:01:13 on Mar 06, 2005

There is an interview with Jolene Blalock in Sunday's Toronto Star.
This is the link:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1110021995262

Part of the article goes on to say:
A former fan herself (her favourite character as a kid was, not surprisingly, Mr. Spock), the actress, despite her vested interest, has never been shy about dissing her own show.

"I mean, we started out with 13 million viewers on the pilot, and we somehow managed to drive 11 million of them away."

Ironically, things had improved dramatically — in terms of content, if not resultant ratings — in this fourth and final season, under the stewardship of producer and self-confessed Trek geek Manny Coto, who brought back a lot of the self-referencing retro continuity the hardcore fan just can't get enough of.

"That was a treat, a joy to do," Blalock enthuses. "It was an unexpected surprise to have the scripts that we did (this season). And I am grateful and thankful for that. It was fun to come to work again.

"And it was certainly much better than spending another season doing what we had been doing. It said a lot about the potential of the show."

There is an awkward silence when the subject of the final episode is broached. "I don't know where to begin with that one," she finally stammers. "The final episode is ... appalling."

She feels sorry for the fans. "I really am touched by their outpour of support, and their display of passion for the show. I was sort of caught off-guard. I didn't know that they were so adamant.


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Death and Remembrance | Report this post to moderator
By: Whitewulf (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:31:43 on Mar 03, 2005

The sad part I am not even part of the franhise and I probably will have come up with a better ending than what B&B have for us to watch in May.


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Perfect! | Report this post to moderator
By: cherno72 (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:19:11 on Mar 03, 2005

This is great. It could be like the end of Bob Newhart Show where the whole series was a dream. The whoe Enterprise Trek Pre-History could just be a holgraphic production. The series can end, and we can finally dismiss it as holographic nonsense with the entire Trek pre-history still unwritten. I love it!


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  • RE: Perfect! | Report this post to moderator
    By: Chris Pike (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:52:13 on Mar 03, 2005

    ...because someone's reviewing it on a holodeck it suddenly isn't real?

    I see. So "Saving Private Ryan" negated World War 2?

    --------

    "Worlds may change, galaxies may disintegrate, but a woman always remains a woman."
    --James Kirk, "The Conscience of the King"

    "Vulcan children are never late with their sehlats' dinner."
    --T'Pol, "The Forge"


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There's hope here | Report this post to moderator
By: Elvis Picard (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:13:49 on Mar 03, 2005

This series was supposed to be about the founding of the Federation, right? With cancellation coming four years in, this might be the best way to get to the Federation's formation. The writers have the luxury of summarizing events rather than doing an episode about each event.

Consult "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars," a Babylon 5 episode that employed a similar concept.


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Holy crap... | Report this post to moderator
By: one_2_three (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:32:05 on Mar 02, 2005

It's a rumor people. I can't believe the amount of bitch rants that have appeared on here as a result of a tiny little rumor.

And have many of you have said you wanted it to end with a reset, or a "this never actually happened" type ending? Well, here it is. Where are those visitors now when it's time to post "I told you so".

A rumor should be taken with a grain of salt, yet everyone has taken it with a shot of tequila, then posted drunken rants.


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  • RE: Holy crap... | Report this post to moderator
    By: Chris Pike (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:53:20 on Mar 03, 2005

    Well, there's a second guy at TrekBBS that says it's true, and apparently they have lots of "street cred" over there for having been right about these things in the past.


    --------

    "Worlds may change, galaxies may disintegrate, but a woman always remains a woman."
    --James Kirk, "The Conscience of the King"

    "Vulcan children are never late with their sehlats' dinner."
    --T'Pol, "The Forge"


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Why Enterprise D? | Report this post to moderator
By: Captain Archer (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:00:28 on Mar 02, 2005

I was really hoping for USS Titan and a little view of Riker as Captain.

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"Please continue the petty bickering. I find it most intriguing."
- Data


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While they are down....one last kick in the teeth!! | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:41:17 on Mar 02, 2005

I know this is a rumor but man this sounds horrible! Talk about giving Trek one final kick in the teeth!


Quote:"'Trip Tucker' dies at the end of the episode purportedly titled "These Are The Voyages".

They should kill off T'Pol!


Quote:"The death occurs in a holographic program on the holodeck of the U.S.S. Enterprise-D, which 'Commander Riker' and 'Deanna Troi' are observing, according to the speculation. If true, the rumors suggest that the episode may largely take place in what turns out to be a holographic representation of historical events, viewed from the perspective of Riker and Troi at some point in the 24th century.

What a HORRIBLE idea! Typical B&B garbage! This sounds soooooooo stupid!


Quote:"This would mesh with Manny Coto's claim that the final episode, penned by Rick Berman and Brannon Braga, would not involve time travel.

What no time travel!? What will Brannon do? Lousy time travel stories is all this jackoff "thinks" he is good at.


Quote:"Jonathan Frakes previously confirmed at a convention that he and Marina Sirtis indeed appear in the final episode, which will air on UPN May 13th at 9 PM.

Ending the prequel with TNG instead of TOS!! How incredibly sad! Proof that B&B hated TOS because Gene created something that these fucking jackoffs couldn't NEVER top or even close too.



Rick Berman and Brannon Braga....the killers of Star Trek!!! They can go straight to hell!


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  • RE: While they are down....one last kick in the teeth!! | Report this post to moderator
    By: OkeydokeyObi (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:58:10 on Mar 03, 2005

    You know what would have been a good idea? If one of the Enterprise Crew (like Trip) sacrifices himself for something and it DIRECTLY LEADS to something that happens in The original series. I don't know.. just bouncing ideas.. like something that has to do with city on the edge of forever or something. You know? And then at the end of the episode you see the beginning of the original series, because what the enterprise crew did directly led to that.

    I came up with that in 2 minutes and that's better than a boring holodeck episode. Heck, even my "interview" idea where someone interviews Riker and Troi about the first Enterprise for some 24th century tv show is a better idea.

    --------

    The dog is a gentleman; I hope to go to his heaven, not man's. -Mark Twain


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Completely predictable | Report this post to moderator
By: The Flashlight (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:28:32 on Mar 02, 2005

The only thing that surprises me about this news is that anyone here could possibly be surprised that this is how Berman & Braga would choose to end the show.

And for all of you in this thread calling for Berman to be fired - you are aware aren't you that Berman is busy developing the next Trek film? He hasn't been fired. He's not going to be fired. He's been put in charge of creating the next Trek incarnation. Does that sound to you like Paramount is listening to your complaints? Does that sound to you like they give two shits about what your opinions? Not only have they kept Berman involved with Trek, they've insulted the franchise by bringing in someone who's major career accomplishment is working on the Inspector Gadget films. Does that sound to you like Paramount is really committed to overhauling Trek and putting out a quality product in a few years? It sure doesn't to me.

This has to be the biggest single "fuck you" to the fans they've ever pulled.

-- they know that TNG/DS9/Voyager fans mostly disliked the plot contrivance of the holodeck and came to intensly dislike holodeck-centric episodes. So what do they do? Write a holodeck-centric episode where everything that happens is a program

-- they know that fans were unhappy that they didn't get at least a tiny glimpse of the Titan at the end of Nemesis. So instead of dropping Riker & Troi into the current post-Nemesis continuity, they deny the fans a last, final chance to see the Titan and put them on the Ent-D.

-- they know that at least some fans want the show to continue, so what do they do? They kill off the show's beefcake actor, Trip, to fatally wound any chance of the show being saved.

How long are you people going to allow Paramount to treat you like garbage?

Truth be told, if the folks behind "Save Enterprise" and "TrekUnited" really wanted to work for the betterment of Trek and to save the franchise they love, they would drop the save Enterprise junk and instead organize a boycot of all things Trek until Paramount finally wakes up and throws Berman out on his ass.

But of course, we all know that isn't going to happen.

So, I guess you'll have to learn to be content with your misery. Because Berman and Paramount are going to keep on shoving that broom handle up the collective asses of Trek fandom until they finally rise up and say "We're mad as hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore!"


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  • RE: Completely predictable | Report this post to moderator
    By: NOSE (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:29:03 on Mar 03, 2005

    You are absolutely right --I've only been able to read bits of exactly what they are trying to do in the finale', and, if it is simply that the show never existed except as some hologram fantasy, it is, indeed a middle finger to all the fans who have stood by the various incarnations of the shows over the past 17 years. If it is simply that they are re-watching a reconstruction of historical events in the "future," I will reserve judgement, but think that the premise is without merit. Let's see how it is *executed* before reserving judgement. No, Berman and Bragga have had no respect or understanding for the original, and anyone seeking to cash in on the sucess of "First Contact" by creating a prequel, and not consulting with and using the ideas of Star Trek novel writers from the get-go, respecting the written cannon of the mythology, and tapping into that mythology, and seeking out true science fiction writers as the origianl show did, were only asking for trouble. Star Trek needs someone like Manny Cotto and Ronald D. Moore to take over the reigns and breath new life into this sorry old franchise. Whether or not the fans (and I am one of them) manage to keep the show alive for a few more years, once it is done, Paramont needs to give it a few years rest, and let others take the helm, if they ever hope to resussitate it.


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TNG episode #179? | Report this post to moderator
By: Cylykon (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:50:40 on Mar 02, 2005

Sounds like this episode should start with the TNG intro. That would be the only way to do it right and achieve the proper effect (if this rumor is true).

My B&B guess at the episode synopsis:
Riker and Troi encounter the Enterprise Season 4 DVD boxed set near the Neutral Zone and discover the "lost episode" easter egg while trying to play it in the holodeck.


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How retarded | Report this post to moderator
By: ULTiMA (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:44:07 on Mar 02, 2005

If thats true .. um thats a retarded way to finish off ENT I reckon.. Like saying Enterprise is not as good as TNG , so lets put a couple of TNG characters in and end the show in a different century.. Maybe the ratings might be better ??? um No way.. Just finish the show off in style and dont kill anybody off or leave in cliff hangers.. You never know a Enterprise Mini series is a year or so might be better that doing Season 5 .. Mini series seem to attract new viewers..and it will keep the fans for sure.

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**The World needs more Scifi**


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Death and Remembrance | Report this post to moderator
By: Whitewulf (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:19:24 on Mar 02, 2005 | Edit History (2)

Ok, if we were to play with this rumor, that someone, say Trip were to say die. The reasonsing behind this could be something that would have possibly played out further had there been a fifth season - like a Romulan conspiracy. The idea of T'Pol playing into this would be having her show up later around the period of Next Generation aboard the Enterprise (D/E)or maybe Titan at a much older age. She would be consulled by Troi as they travel to the area were it Trip was killed. Basically T'Pol wants to relive that time period and determine who was responsible for his death, since she still has feelings for him. Riker points out to T'Pol that they can use the Holodeck to possible find out who maybe the person responsible for Commander Trips death. The story will go on as they review the clues that lead up to that fatefull day. Upon discovery they discover the true villian, who turns out to be a undercover Romulan agent working towards destroying the alliance created between earth and its alien allies. With grief in her eyes, she will turn towards the doors to exit, when we see Riker look at Troi and say, "End Program."

If they uses the U.S.S. Titan, it is possible that T'Pol would be a Vulcan delegate. If they use the Enterprise D, she maybe traveling to visit it the scene of the crime after all these years.

Of course this will all lead up to Star Trek XI. Then again this all could be just a big dream and you will wake up in a sweat and screaming.


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  • RE: Death and Remembrance | Report this post to moderator
    By: Mardus (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:01:56 on Mar 06, 2005

    T'Pol would be dead near the end of the 24th century. Remember that Sarek died at the age of 202, at around 236x in Earth years. T'Pol was born on 2088, so if she was to live 200 years, she'd die at around 2288. If she had to revisit her previous premises or if she wanted to prolong her life, she'd have to use stasis chambers.


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I'll cry | Report this post to moderator
By: what_a_trip (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 18:58:33 on Mar 02, 2005

I have never cried at a TV show before, but I swear I'm gonna if they kill Trip one more bloody time! Nice ep title, though, if that's the real one. Very appropriate, actually.

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Image

Many thanks to Jean-Luc for my siggie!


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This just proves it. | Report this post to moderator
By: Greenspan (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:49:44 on Mar 02, 2005

This episode is a perfect example of why B&B should not be allowed to work on Star Trek. Manny Coto works his ass off trying to make this show something worth saving and these two guys come in and recycle old plot ideas. Even after taking their own break from Enterprise, they still can't come up with anything original.

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"Maybe in another thousand years, we'll have teleportation and all that other Star Trek stuff. But with our current technology, we can't even make William Shatner's hair look real." --- Bill Maher


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  • RE: This just proves it. | Report this post to moderator
    By: Fort N'zur (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:45:56 on Mar 02, 2005

    I, for one, am looking forward to his episode if the Enterprise-D rumor is true. While Enterprise wasn't great (except season 4), I do think it should have a finale that doesn't include any other Trek show...that said, I would LOVE to see the Enterprise-D again. She was the most glorious, "homely" Enterprise in my opinion. It's the only ship I really fell in love with. It might be the wrong way to go for a finale, but I can't resist to catch a glimpse of her one more time.

    --------

    "...and a class 2 comet, Wow, this is certainly worthy of our attention." -Picard "A comet! Drop us out of warp, we'll study it for a few weeks, what do you think Trip?" -Archer


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ARGH!!! @%#?@$?#$ | Report this post to moderator
By: YodaOldBoy (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 17:24:40 on Mar 02, 2005

PLEASE, JUST PLEASE DON'T END THE SERIES LIKE THIS!!! THIS IS THE WORST PIECE OF CRAP I HAVE EVER, I REPEAT, EVER, SEEN!!!

Calm down now... to think I thought there was still hope for the finale to be good... Worse, thought B&B could still manage to pull something off...

Back to it: PLEASE, LET MANNY COTO AND THE REEVES-STEVENS WRITE THE EPISODE!!! OH PLEASE, IF THERE IS A GOD IN THIS WORLD, DO SOMETHING!!!

*Deep breathing*

--------

Lincoln Six-Echo: Who is 'God'?
McCord: You know when you really want something, you close your eyes and wish for it really hard? God is the guy that ignores you!

- The Island


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  • RE: ARGH!!! @%#?@$?#$ | Report this post to moderator
    By: one_2_three (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:34:29 on Mar 02, 2005

    there is NO way the rumor is true. B&B said the ending would be a valentine. WTF kind of valentine is watching somebody die?


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    • RE: ARGH!!! @%#?@$?#$ | Report this post to moderator
      By: YodaOldBoy (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:07:43 on Mar 03, 2005

      Not Trip dying I would guess, but the link between TNG era Trek and ENT Trek. I personnaly think Trip dying could be good. This is definitely not the part bothering me.

      --------

      Lincoln Six-Echo: Who is 'God'?
      McCord: You know when you really want something, you close your eyes and wish for it really hard? God is the guy that ignores you!

      - The Island


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B&B's creative ending | Report this post to moderator
By: Relpek (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:06:44 on Mar 02, 2005

I hope this spoiler is not true. GEEZ...Do these guys hit each other on the head with a tack hammer regularly or what? What a way to further alienate the fans. Some people I know who watch seem to lose interest when the holodeck is used. Are they trying to alienate fans further or are they just not able to deliver? I hate to say it but I feel B&B need to leave Trek if this is their result.


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Voyager did something like this and it was a good episode | Report this post to moderator
By: Tbar (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:55:09 on Mar 02, 2005

Didn't Voyager do an episode where the Dr. was found several hundred years later and part of a musium retelling the events of a story. I realize that was a different type of episode, but the concept was similar and it was good. So if this holodeck is nothing but a setting for a good story, then I don't see why it would ruin the finale. In fact it might just make it all the more unique. Of course I'm not holding my breath..


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Maybe | Report this post to moderator
By: Hunter (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:27:30 on Mar 02, 2005

I agree that these rumors don't sound great and, to be honest, any mention of the Enterprise-D makes me think this rumor is just that - rumor, not fact.

Anyhow, it might be a pipe dream, but I think they are trying to throw everyone off. I think they do have something special up their sleeves and like throwing red meat to a lion, they know that we are all going to dissect and discuss and analyze every little detail that comes out. So, why not give us some false stuff to chew on for a while?

It's a long shot, but I hope they actually did use William Shatner at some point. They have everyone saying otherwise and have Shatner complaining that there were contract issues et al. But what if they did shoot a finale with Shatner? What a fitting end it would be to have Kirk during his retirement crisis (sometime after STVI and ST:Generations) being visited by someone from Enterprise (T'Pol). I wouldn't be suprised if T'Pol turns out to be related to Spock, for instance, and Kirk has known her all along (but it was never mentioned). Maybe Kirk could be reading about Enterprise (given his penchant for reading actual books [with pages]) or talking with T'Pol about the adventures of the first starship Enterprise. Whatever he is doing it starts the ball rolling in his head that he never should have retired (thus his conversation with Piccard in the Nexus..., "don't let them do anything that takes you away from that bridge, because while you're there you can make a difference.")

You have to believe that William Shatner would love to be the one Star Trek character to bookend all the series. As an actor, I don't know how he would pass that opportunity up.

There are a thousand different ways you can connect Shatner with Enterprise. As for the whole Riker/Troi thing - maybe that's a rouze too? Who knows, maybe they'll be in a holodeck looking at history of all the Enterprises. Who knows. None of us do! We'll just have to wait and see.


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  • RE: Maybe | Report this post to moderator
    By: fryman (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:41:47 on Mar 02, 2005

    Hunter, that is about the best idea of how, if any smart way is possible, Shatner could come back and do a guest spot or cameo on Enterprise. That would be a great ending to the series, even the franchise. Have Kirk and others reminise about Enterprise's at various time frames, or just Kirk and then want to take the chair again. Thats about the most plausable idea i've read on here yet. Good thinking


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Rumors Rumors and More Rumors | Report this post to moderator
By: EntFan! (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:26:46 on Mar 02, 2005 | Edit History (1)

I enjoy reading the spoilers and rumor mill is always fun to sift through...but I still hope for some reason that these are just RUMORS and nothing beyond...there is a proper way to end a failing series...and mostly it's to ensure a tear felt goodbye where people are pretty much feeling "no, I don't want it to end"....hopefully they can pull it off to some degree...


EDIT: For arguements sake can anyone think of an episode where Riker and Troi might essentially need the knowledge from a past experience?

I don't know if this episode involves the Romulans, so I could see a definite tie-in to NEMESIS if they had gone with the ENT-E or TITAN, but if this is a continuation of "Xenophobia"-story line, I don't remember a definite TNG episode that dealt with Xenophobia continuing on Earth...anyone want to at least speculate?

--------

"My old friend, this song's for you. Cause a few simple verses was the least that I could do to tell the world that you were here. Cause the love and the laughter, will live on long after all of the sadness and the tears. We'll meet again, my old friend"

Tim McGraw "My Old Friend"
Dedicated To My Home..New Orleans


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  • RE: Rumors Rumors and More Rumors | Report this post to moderator
    By: Chris Pike (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:20:33 on Mar 03, 2005

    One of the arguments over at Trekbbs goes something like this:

    The inside information says that Riker is using the holodeck to help him work out whether not he should "tell Picard something"

    So the theory over there is that this set during "The Pegasus," and Riker is reviewing information on the Romulan Wars...and Archer comes up.

    --------

    "Worlds may change, galaxies may disintegrate, but a woman always remains a woman."
    --James Kirk, "The Conscience of the King"

    "Vulcan children are never late with their sehlats' dinner."
    --T'Pol, "The Forge"


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Reading to Much into this rumor | Report this post to moderator
By: Whitewulf (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:58:45 on Mar 02, 2005

Ok Guys, I hate to say this but at this point in time, while all the rumors are interesting, if not scary, I would not read to heavily into this. At this point I will wait until the show airs in May. If it turns out the way some of you are saying, it will be a sad day indeed. This is not the first time that Berman did this, remember back to Trial and Tribulations, I am sure all of you remember that - dont get me wrong it was a good episode. But should this not surprise anyone that Berman and Braga would do something like this.


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  • Huh? | Report this post to moderator
    By: Dukat (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:10:44 on Mar 02, 2005

    What is the parallel with Trials and Tribblations? I am not up for attacking this idea yet either but I don't understand that parallel.

    This is about a short cameo of Riker & Troi appearantly viewing a history program in the holodeck which has no meaning and very weirdly occurs on the 1701D. I don't know what to make of it, but seems stupid and silly, but I don't think it is harmful as people say it is.

    Trials was a fantastic episode where we had Sisko reporting to temporal investigations about a mission that had just occurred where Sisko & crew found themselves misplaced in time and on the same ship with Kirk & Co. In that instance, it smartly intermixed the old and new, and fit perfectly in the DS9 world and didn't change one iota one thing in the TOS story.

    Except for one thing-- if they took the Lucasian approach to Star Wars, and actually released another version of Trouble with Tribbles with the DS9 heros inserted in those scenes. Specificaly Dax on the bridge, Dax & Sisko in the hallway background, and Bashier, Obrien and Worf in the bar fight scene.

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    Image


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    • RE: Huh? | Report this post to moderator
      By: Whitewulf (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:22:08 on Mar 03, 2005

      Quote:
      What is the parallel with Trials and Tribblations? I am not up for attacking this idea yet either but I don't understand that parallel.

      This is about a short cameo of Riker & Troi appearantly viewing a history program in the holodeck which has no meaning and very weirdly occurs on the 1701D. I don't know what to make of it, but seems stupid and silly, but I don't think it is harmful as people say it is.

      Trials was a fantastic episode where we had Sisko reporting to temporal investigations about a mission that had just occurred where Sisko & crew found themselves misplaced in time and on the same ship with Kirk & Co. In that instance, it smartly intermixed the old and new, and fit perfectly in the DS9 world and didn't change one iota one thing in the TOS story.

      Except for one thing-- if they took the Lucasian approach to Star Wars, and actually released another version of Trouble with Tribbles with the DS9 heros inserted in those scenes. Specificaly Dax on the bridge, Dax & Sisko in the hallway background, and Bashier, Obrien and Worf in the bar fight scene.


      Actaully I was just trying to use Trials as an example of what Berman is capable of doing. That people often take these so called rumors as gospel.
      Just look at the previous posts by just two posters:

      "What would be even more insulting to ENT fans would be if they started the episode just like an episode of TNG." - Brightrising

      "Well here it is, Rick Berman and Brannon Braga taking the Star Trek franshice behind the wood shed and shooting it in the head." - Sennik

      My whole point was that this is just rumor mill on the run, that we should just take it as that a rumor. In another post under this topic I decided to have some fun and open the rumor up to my interpration as to what "could" happen on the finale episode.


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Valentine? | Report this post to moderator
By: Balok (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:43:39 on Mar 02, 2005

You know, when I read Berman's comments about the finale being a "Valentine" for Trek fans, I suspected he meant it was going to be a royal F*ck U to the people who have been bashing him for the past several years. I've just read the info over at TrekBBS and it looks like my suspicions were right. Looks like B&B are salting the Earth where it comes to Enterprise.


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Old Yeller | Report this post to moderator
By: Sennik (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:10:24 on Mar 02, 2005

Well, here it is. Rick Berman and Brannon Braga taking the Star Trek franchise behind the wood shed and shooting it in the head. I figured Riker & Troi's appearance wouldn't be a cameo, and would take up a lot of screen time -- time that should've gone to the cast who have been there for 4 years, and lo and behold I was right. The spoiler info on TrekBBS says that they are in about a third of the episode. A full third! I doubt we'll even get much closure on the regular cast of Enterprise.

Since it was established this episode wouldn't involve time travel, and we figured it wouldn't involve the Borg, the only other CRUTCH that Berman & Braga have is... the holodeck. So here we are, a holodeck episode. Should've seen it coming I suppose.

And they kill off Trip, and in so doing, kill off any chance of Enterprise coming back, which is sending a big f*ck you to all the fans of the series who wanted a 5th season. So we'll have the crying and sadness from T'Pol and Archer, and then we'll get Riker and Troi saying, "End program."

SaveEnterprise... TrekUnited... take your money, phone up Paramount, and tell them you will GIVE THEM the over 3 million dollars if they would just FIRE RICK BERMAN! That would do more good for Star Trek in the long run than a 5th season run by that complete idiot.


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Hmm | Report this post to moderator
By: darkedgex (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:51:43 on Mar 02, 2005

Either the link to TrekBBS is bad, or the post got pulled because someone at Paramount didn't want the final episode story to be leaked. :P


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The Berminator | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorpius (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:46:49 on Mar 02, 2005

This whole season we have been waiting for a William Shatner appearance as James Kirk.

This whole season, Manny Coto and the great team of writers have been tying as many plot themes and threads into making this a legitimate prequel to the original Star Trek series.

Berman and Braga write ONE episode, and it's the finale, and they tie it into The Next Generation???

Their failure to get Shatner and their complete disregard for the original show has been part of a large problem all along.

I hope neither of them ever get to touch Star Trek ever again.

I feel sorry for Coto who obviously had to smile through much gritted teeth when they took the flag pole from his show and stuck it in and twisted it in a place that no man has been before and doesn't want to go...

--------

"Men don't use sex to get what they want. Sex IS what they want" - Frasier


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Oy.. | Report this post to moderator
By: X-Drone1701 (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:45:06 on Mar 02, 2005

... I just hope the hell B&B don't give us a "Roseanne" finale copout where we find out that most of the events never happened and everybody actually died (or became a lesbian). All I can say is that there will be some eye-roller moments in this episode.

Also, is it really necessary to have Troi and Riker in this episode? Shouldn't the episode be focused on the core ensemble? This series had nothing to do with TNG. That show is long gone.

--------

"We're starfleet officers....weird is part of the job!"


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Enterprise "D"? | Report this post to moderator
By: CahnMan (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 13:26:45 on Mar 02, 2005

Waittaminute!

Not only do we have the possibility that the events of this episode -- if not all of ENT -- are being played out on a Holodeck, but on the Enterprise "D"???

If this rumor is true, shouldn't it be on the Titan? Or the Enterprise "E"? (Or even a later "F," although I hope they skip that letter -- I can just hear the jokes.)

I, for one, am still hoping Frakes and Sirtis aren't even playing Riker and Troi, but other characters. But, if they are, then they should be on the Titan where Riker's captain, or the "E" after Picard steps down.

Go forward, dang it! Not backward!

--------

Martin L. Cahn


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Halodeck | Report this post to moderator
By: Whitewulf (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:25:49 on Mar 02, 2005

While we are dealing only in rumor mills, I stick to what I have been saying over this last month, that we may see a halodeck scene with the ending were Riker looks at Troi and says, "End Program." and the screen going black.


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What is the big deal? | Report this post to moderator
By: Dukat (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 13:24:17 on Mar 02, 2005

The holodeck thing is a stupid tie in to Riker & Troi, but if it is shown as a historical representation, that is not a holographic dream sequence in which the events have no validity.

Sounds like a meaningless 2-3 minutes of air time for Riker & Troi, but nothing more. As far as a character or more dying, that in itself does not make a bad story. Granted, Trek hasn't necessarily killed the heroes in the best way for everyone, probably only Spock has gone in a way which is satisfying and he came back.

--------

Image


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The Final Insult | Report this post to moderator
By: brightrising (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:09:34 on Mar 02, 2005

What would be even more insulting to ENT fans would be if they started the episode just like an episode of TNG. With the theme song and the Picard voice over. Basically trivializing the entire ENT series as nothign but a subset of TNG. Braga likes these kinds of mind games. Holodeck, Time Travel, and Hallucinations are his weapons of choice.


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  • RE: The Final Insult | Report this post to moderator
    By: ScrubBot (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:55:31 on Mar 03, 2005

    ...
    How about this...

    What if, yes, it is the end of Star Trek: Enterprise...and the beginning of Star Trek: The Federation (or some other title...) implying that the series mainly dealing with enterprise proving the federation can travel and deal with other species, is ending and now begins the next chapter...??

    What if by Valentine they mean to continue the series and the love that many have with StarTrek by keeping it going but just starting another chapter headed by Cotto? Just change the name heading of the series...hmmm...

    ...just a thought...STARTREK: Federations ??

    --------

    -=- Hi from the Satellite of Luv -=-


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  • RE: The Final Insult | Report this post to moderator
    By: jrbindfw (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:58:11 on Mar 02, 2005

    if this proves to be true it should be interesting to see them make Frakes and Sirtis look 11-18 years younger, lord knows they look nothing like they did


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    • RE: The Final Insult | Report this post to moderator
      By: Mardus (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:27:54 on Mar 06, 2005

      That's why I'd hope for them to be on the Titan, or with the Romulans, both investigating the history. The finale episodes have usually been two-parters. So I'd hope for a two-parter, too.


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  • RE: The Final Insult | Report this post to moderator
    By: icedtea (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:41:42 on Mar 02, 2005

    Geez, that's one hell of a Valentine to the fans if it's true. If that's their idea of a Valentine, then words fail me.

    I thought they really couldn't sink any lower than the finale C/7 slap in the face they dealt a long-time J/C invested audience that had hung in with them through thick n thin for seven years with Voyager. I see I was wrong. At least us J/C fans still had the characters to play with in fan fiction. Character death in a finale is truly a lazy, and desperate attempt to wring emotion from the fans, no matter that the fans really love the character.

    I have to say, this whole holodeck viewing thing strikes me as the Trek equivalent of Bobby Ewing in the shower and Pammie's season-long nightmare. I think that's it sportsfans :( By killing off possibly the show's most popular character and one half of a popular 'ship, UPN and the grey men in grey suits are sending a clear message ; they want Enterprise-Trek dead and buried for their own selfish reasons and if they have to kill-off Trip to make that happen, they will.


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  • RE: The Final Insult | Report this post to moderator
    By: ]X-Men[Wolverine (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:33:19 on Mar 02, 2005

    I mean.... if done correctly that Episode plot could rule...
    And they could try to explain why Archer never played any role in TNG, DS9 or Voyager but yet seems to have such an important role in Earth´s history.
    If done correctly, IF done correctly they could turn that Episode in an all time classic. But if B&B are up to that... I am afraid that I have to doubt it!

    --------

    Live Long and Prosper


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    • RE: The Final Insult | Report this post to moderator
      By: Mardus (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:58:32 on Mar 06, 2005

      My fantasy of all of it would be the following... Please be aware that I have time travel in here and I'm rehashing the "Yesterday's Enterprise" concept and a bit of "Star Trek: Nemesis" and then there's a rehashing from a book of which I only read a review that includes Guinan, Scotty and time travel.

      Premise:
      ###The Romulans in some way get the Enterprise, which then gets lost in an important mission regarding the Romulans and which will provoke a war with Earth and the Romulans.###

      Option: Earth's databases are not yet this advanced and suppose the computer there experienced either some instability or something that would have made data concerning Enterprise irrecoverable while the Enterprise has been away. As Starfleet Headquarters are in San Francisco, lots of fleet databases are there too. Imagine an earthquake suddenly happens and not all data could be backed up. Considering the technology of the future, predicting earthquakes should be very easy at that supposed future time. And after that, more reliable computer technology would be developed to make sure this kind of data loss doesn't happen again.

      Additional option. The Romulans are soon complete developing experimental heavy-duty torpedoes that are ahead of their time /torpedoes that would have been akin in firepower to what they are in the 24th century. But the lead scientist working on and developing these torpedoes doesn't really believe in weapons of mass destruction, but he is forced to do that work or else...

      So as a batch of these experimental torpedoes is ready for deployment, he gets to secretly make contact with the Enterprise crew, asking for asylum and to put a cherry on a cake, promising information on how to either get protection from these torpedoes (like better shields or some system that would make the torpedoes evade their target, i.e. Enterprise) or how to deactivate them.

      So the Enterprise crew gets the scientist, and soon other Romulans on their ship, who have been working with this scientist, learn about it, but it's too late: the scientist is already onboard Enterprise and the ship looks like getting away soon (think of Ent maneuvreing through some fluid obstacle, like a minefield or an asteroid field).

      The time is short and while the scientist tries to engineer and deploy a defense mechanism with the Ent. crew to steer these new torpedoes away from the Enterprise, the Romulan ship, with its new torpedoes, tries to stop them. Even if those torpedoes have not yet been tested, the commander there decides to use these deadly torpedoes against the Enterprise before it's too late completely /for him.

      For example, the new torpedoes can be fired off at a certain interval for safety and if the target has not been reached, they explode after there's no fuel to fly anymore. And since the fuel for relatively small torpedoes to fly quickly from point A to point B is hard to get/make and is scarce, there's only enough of it to fly to some relatively safe distance and explode. And the number of torpedoes is also limited.

      So the first one hits the Enterprise and the ship gets a heavy battering and loses warp speed. While the Enterprise is still trying to escape, the tech crew and the scientist get the torpedo-evading technology up and running just before the second and critical torpedo is about to hit them. The torpedo deflects from target and the Romulan ship just happens to fly into it, which hits the ship hard and almost cripples it.

      The ship /or its commander, ravaged by the hit and trying to use all possible means to stop the Enterprise, decides to fire all the torpedoes at once in his (the commander's) ruse to at least cripple the Enterprise. The commander, knowing that shooting the torpedoes at once might disable his ship's systems and that some of the torpedoes might come back and destroy his ship, commands his vessel closer to the Enterprise, desperately hoping that if his ship gets a hit, it will explode in a grand manner and will at least cripple the Enterprise anyway (so that soon-to arrive Romulan backup vessels will get it anyway).

      As the torpedoes are blasted off at once, the Romulan ship's systems malfunction and it can't maneuver anymore. The torpedoes fly around Enterprise, several of them deflected from Enterprise's saucer section and flying away from it. Soon they explore and create a time rift (the one seen in "Yesterday's Enterprise"). Archer and crew, equally desperate to get away from their demise, estimate that the torpedoes might hit the enemy ship very soon and they navigate away from the Romulans and into the rift, leaving into safety, and leaving the Romulan ship in destruction.

      And the rest would be history, as this incident could be the basis for the Earth-Romulan war and subsequently the birth of the Federation.

      ---
      The soon-arriving Romulan back-up forces witness the events unfold, report back to Romulus, the Romulan fleet assemble and progress to fly towards the Earth and attack and conquer anything human in their way. The Starfleet Command gets alerted in time, but they somehow miss their flagship, that has been mysteriously lost in the Romulan waters... They are lucky to have a good enough fleet of starhips (that are probably not as advanced as the Enterprise is) able to withstand prolonged warfare and thus the bloody Earth-Romulan war ensues and the standoffs since then between the Federation and the Romulans.

      Here are two options where Riker and Troi could be of use in the 24th century.

      Now the Enterprise does arrive from its original time from the rift, but here I visualised two universes:

      One where the Romulans, in their need for revenge, have conquered the Earth and enslaved humans for all of this and 200-300 years into the future, while the expanded Romulan Star Empire lives in relative tranquility with itself and humans and other races /these might be now onthe same level or slightly subordinate, is facing a Borg attack so serious (well, I'd think that they might have all cooperated and staved off earlier lighter Borg attacks) that the Romulans (probably allied with other powers in the quadrant) face losing to the Borg after a prolonged conflict. -- So alternative universe Riker and Troi first discover the Enterprise and then help them get back through the rift into their original time. The Enterprise, repaired and a bit advanced, probably gets destroyed in a huge battle (while destroying many of the Romulan ships) and from that the Earth-Romulan war will continue, but on a more level ground.

      The second option would be for the Enterprise to come through the rift and encounter the 24th century Trek universe that we know and love. They are salvaged by that new Romulan ship (I wish Denise Crosby reprised her Sela role there), they meet up with Titan and from data that the Enterprise gathered, they work out the whys and hows of what really initiated the Earth-Romulan war.

      And then a flashback into creating the Federation and then a flash-forward into the future where the Federation and the Romulans fairly quickly sign the Federation-Romulan peace treaty.


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