This is my first post. I've always found it interesting that so many people on this website seem to really like DS9. I've probably only seen maybe half of the DS9 episodes, whereas I've seen every episode of TOS, TNG, and Enterprise, and probably 80% of Voyager episodes. I lost interest early on with DS9, but came back to it in the later seasons, when it held my interest more consistently. I'd like to give the show a second chance, and am considering buying a season or two on DVD. I am curious to know what season(s) of DS9 you fans of DS9 would recommend.
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I'll agree with NAFF's recommendation of 4-6, but I'll also add on 7. Keep in mind, though, that DS9 was increasingly serialized as it went on, and if you want to follow the cast of 30+ recurring characters that the show had by the time it ended, you really need to watch it in order. Again, if you go with NAFF's advice and start at Season 2 (or even 1), you should be okay, but keep in mind that seasons 1 and 3 are a bit weak, comparatively. And that's saying something, since they had strong episodes like "Captive Pursuit", "Duet", "In the Hands of the Prophets", "Second Skin", "Past Tense", "Distant Voices", "Improbable Cause"/"The Die Is Cast", "Through the Looking Glass", "Explorers", and "The Adversary". I like to blame DS9 for giving so many fans the higher standards that lead to them bashing Voyager and Enterprise, which really aren't that much worse than TNG. ;-)
Incidentally, you might be better served by posting these questions at the BBS... Generally, comments deal with the article that they were posted on. Of course, there's no rule that says you can't do otherwise. ;-)
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"You know what six movies average out to be really good? The first six Star Trek movies!" -- Fry, Futurama
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Appreciation of the later seasons is enhanced by having seen the earlier ones.
Seasons 4 and 6 are stand-outs for me.
But my recommendation is to go with Season 2, which has some really enjoyable episodes, and go from there.
I was watching the DS9 shows on DVD in parallel with Enterprise on TV. Doing this made me realise just how bad Enterprise actually is. And folks, it's bad.
I'm usually one who really loves most of the Enterprise episodes. Daedalus,however, was a disappointment. It seemed largely a kind of remake of the DAYSTROM TOS story only with a slight twist. (Noting also the DS9 THE VISITOR). Both the TOS Daystrom and Daedalus stories were about someone who gained great fame at an early age, who found he could never match that again. True, here we also had his son Quinn who had disappeared years before and still somehow existed in some subspatial anomoly or bubble. (But, Quinn really just took the place of Daestroms computer in the TOS episode which, if you recall, had been programmed with Daestroms engrams and so was, (I hate to say it) kind of like Daystrom's son in that story), In Daedalus, the story seemed to be about attempts to get the inventors son back. While in the DAYSTROM chronicle, it was to prove the superiority of the computer. Not all that different. I saw an obvious parallel between the two stories. And,as such, the ending wasn't at all surprisng.
Unfortunately, the inventors ultimate plight, as it was also for Daystrom, seemed kind of dreary, desperate and totally hopeless from the start.
There were other problems in the way the story unfolded as well, or, at least, things that grated on me as I watched. First, there were the almost inexplicable tirades that Archer made in response to very justified crew concerns that he was acting out of personal concern and not being objective. Archer's behavior seemed unexpectedly dictatorial and totally out of character.
It seemed further out of character for Archer later to tell Trip he was on the edge of insubordination if he dared to question his (Archer's) decision again. Worse, on top of that, Archer never showed even one single moment of self-reflection about his behavior, or his decisions. Not once did he look at his angry responses to those concerns, not when they happened, not right after they happened, not later. And, all of that seemed totally out of character.
I've really enjoyed ENTERPRISE this season. And,
after a series of, what I found to be, largely stellar (no pun intended) episodes up till now, one after the other (with of course there always being some things that could've been better, but all vastly entertaining, and nicely presented consecutively), this dreary drama was a disappointment
Perhaps it hit me in the wrong way or at the wrong time,as even DEUS saw many more redeeming qualities in it than I did.(Even the conversations between Trip and T'pal seemed forced, awkward and unlikely.
Nevertheless, it hasn't daunted my overall enthusiasm for the series, but when Daedalus rolls around again as a repeat, it's likely I'll be somewhere else.
I'm usually one who really loves most of the Enterprise episodes. Daedalus,however, was a disappointment. It seemed largely a kind of remake of the DAYSTROM TOS story only with a slight twist. (Noting also the DS9 THE VISITOR). Both the TOS Daystrom and Daedalus stories were about someone who gained great fame at an early age, who found he could never match that again. True, here we also had his son Quinn who had disappeared years before and still somehow existed in some subspatial anomoly or bubble. (But, Quinn really just took the place of Daestroms computer in the TOS episode which, if you recall, had been programmed with Daestroms engrams and so was, (I hate to say it) kind of like Daystrom's son in that story), In Daedalus, the story seemed to be about attempts to get the inventors son back. While in the DAYSTROM chronicle, it was to prove the superiority of the computer. Not all that different. I saw an obvious parallel between the two stories. And,as such, the ending wasn't at all surprisng.
Unfortunately, the inventors ultimate plight, as it was also for Daystrom, seemed kind of dreary, desperate and totally hopeless from the start.
There were other problems in the way the story unfolded as well, or, at least, things that grated on me as I watched. First, there were the almost inexplicable tirades that Archer made in response to very justified crew concerns that he was acting out of personal concern and not being objective. Archer's behavior seemed unexpectedly dictatorial and totally out of character.
It seemed further out of character for Archer later to tell Trip he was on the edge of insubordination if he dared to question his (Archer's) decision again. Worse, on top of that, Archer never showed even one single moment of self-reflection about his behavior, or his decisions. Not once did he look at his angry responses to those concerns, not when they happened, not right after they happened, not later. And, all of that seemed totally out of character.
I've really enjoyed ENTERPRISE this season. And,
after a series of, what I found to be, largely stellar (no pun intended) episodes up till now, one after the other (with of course there always being some things that could've been better, but all vastly entertaining, and nicely presented consecutively), this dreary drama was a disappointment
Perhaps it hit me in the wrong way or at the wrong time,as even DEUS saw many more redeeming qualities in it than I did.(Even the conversations between Trip and T'pal seemed forced, awkward and unlikely.
Nevertheless, it hasn't daunted my overall enthusiasm for the series, but when Daedalus rolls around again as a repeat, it's likely I'll be somewhere else.
I thought this was a really strong stand-alone episode. I'm surprised that there haven't been more positive comments so far. The twist was a little obvious, but I liked the subtlety of the title (as SkyGuy pointed out), the strong guest star (in my opinion), the truly human (if a bit confusing) plot, the mention of all of the concerns with early transporters that fleshed out the universe a little more (although I'm still hoping Enterprise will show a case of transporter psychosis ["Realm of Fear", TNG] someday), and the wonderful resolution to some of the T'Pol subplots that they managed to sneak in (as deltaflyer mentioned). It's not the best episode of all time, but it was a good, strong stand-alone ep.
Incidentally, Deus, are you still giving numeric ratings? Last few epsiodes, all I've seen is:
Quote:
Title: "Daedalus" [or whatever]
Overall: Overall
Performances: Performances
Writing: Writing
Direction: Directing
FX & Prod Value: FX etc
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"You know what six movies average out to be really good? The first six Star Trek movies!" -- Fry, Futurama
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It was a pretty flat episode so all in all an accurate review.
I liked that they actually talked about how the nature of starfleet could be changed with more advanced transporters but felt that it didn't really go far enough.
A thing that's beginning to annoy me about ENT is the 'Zephram Cochrane cliche'. Any time ENT wants to evoke the exploration vibe they seem to always fall back on Zephram Cochrane. It's getting a bit same old same old. This isn't really a criticism of this episode as it actually fit in - there was a conversation about the two competing technologies that vie for the defining spot in Starfleet. But this is what really annoys me about the whole thing. There is more to exploration than how you get there so the technology used is merely incidental. I want some famous anthropologist invoked from now on if they want to use the exploration card.
Anyway, the dude who played Emory: terrible actor.
And his daughter should have come forward and told Archer what was going on.
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Life Unconscious.
I liked the review but there's no mention of the T'pol B-plot which in my opinion was excellent...quite an oversight. After all T'pol is becoming more rational, more Vulcan and this was a defining episode for her character.
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Yes I am Australian...AND NO I DO NOT OWN A KANGAROO! And it's typical that we were made the last ones to join the federation....
sssnnnnnnnxxxxxxx........
Newsflash: DS9 was terrible. It suffered from worse acting than YOV and was boring as hell. Give it up already!
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DS9 had the best cast and recurring cast of all the TREK series and the best writing, too. It also had the least amount of downright bad episodes, many of which could often be saved simply by the fact that the characters had been so well developed in the rest of the episodes.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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DS9 had the worst cast and recurring cast of all the TREK series and the worst writing, too. It also had the most amount of downright bad episodes, many of which couldn't be saved simply because of the fact that the characters had been developed in such a non-Roddenberry-esque way.
Mabye a few fanboys from some of the Trek websites might agree with what you've posted Steve, but the failing ratings of DS9 show that my points are more correct. Trek fans as a whole were turned off of the show and decided to stop watching because it (and VOY) paled in comparison to the superior TNG. Nothing has touched the quality of seasons 4-6 of TNG.
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I believe your in the minority with that opinion motionblur. DS9's ratings were never that bad, in fact they got a boost after season 4. Trek fans that were turned off to it? Your the first buddy. And even more to the point, the best season of TNG was #3.
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I believe your in the minority with that opinion motionblur. DS9's ratings were never that bad, in fact they got a boost after season 4. Trek fans that were turned off to it? Your the first buddy. And even more to the point, the best season of TNG was #3.
Deus wrote
"... the tragedy of a genius falling through his own conscience and the decisions he makes."
Deus, I'm surprised you didn't bring home the ep title to support this point. Part way through watching it, I realized that the "anomaly" was Emory's lost son -- that Emory was "Daedalus" and his son was "Icarus" who disregarded his father's warnings and figuratively "flew too close to the Sun." Though the ep wasn't all that great, Coto & Co. should be commended for bringing in this TOS-like play on words.
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GET A LIFE, will you people? I mean, for crying out loud, it's just a TV show!.... You've turned an enjoyable little job, that I did as a lark for a few years, into a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME! -- William Shatner on Saturday Night Live (1986)
After the mostly negative reviews you gave to other S4 episodes that were far superior to this one, I'm surprised you weren't harder on Daedalus. The things you cited as the episode's failings (i.e. Bill Cobbs, the destructive ghost) were actually the strongest points in my opinion. Everything else was badly conceived and executed.
They really dropped the ball by only briefly addressing the practical and philosophical consequences of transporter technology. There's a great episode to be made on that subject alone, and this wasn't it. Coto has been mostly hitting the right notes this season, so it's disappointing that he missed such an obvious opportunity.
Overall, this was a tedious, ponderous, poorly-written episode that would not have been out of place in the first two seasons. I almost fell asleep more than once. The episode basically kneecapped itself by revealing Erickson's true intentions so early. It would have had far more dramatic resonance if the true nature of the ghost, and Erickson's knowledge of it, would have been revealed closer to the end.
The scenes between Trip and T'Pol were horribly written. Trineer was probably trying his best under the circumstances, but Blalock is obviously losing interest fast. There's a difference between acting reserved and not acting at all, and Blalock phoned in that performance. Bakula fared no better. When he was barking orders at Trip, he just didn't have the air of authority that Stewart or Brooks would have.
And once again, there were negligible roles for Travis and Hoshi. This would make a good running joke, if not for the fact that it stopped being funny about two seasons ago. Either use them or drop them, because this is getting ridiculous.
After some impressive episodes this season, this was a real letdown. The fact that ENT's worst episode of the season aired the same night as BSG's premiere will make ENT look even more inferior than it already is.
sorry, double post
Did anyone besides me recognize the girl from Odyssey 5 in this episode? I bet Manny Coto had something to do with that.
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Leslie Silva.... and the ep was written by 2 "Odyssey 5 writers". ;-)
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
...and not a good one.
At least the high-jinks of previous Season 4 episodes have gone.
And so, it seems, has the budget.
This was like a Next Gen 'B' story.
And that is all the discussion this episode deserves.
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I agree. I have loved season 4, but this show was dull and obvious and both poorly acted and poorly written. The endless chatter about the obvious was painful and the "secondary" plot involving the continuing angst between Trip and T'Pol was embarrassing - these little snippets were trite, uninvolving, and seemed to have been slipped into the show randomly. Let's just forget this episode ever occurred and move on.
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