I know this will all likely fall on deaf ears but here's a wild idea. Instead of screaming, pounding chests and throwing various filth at each other...how about an actual discussion?
Talkbacks are often bad but this episode's seems to be particularly awfull. I know namecalling is ever so much fun and people have gotten used to it particularly on the boards here where abuse is the point. But none of this accomplishes anything and maybe something could be gained if the anti and pro-enterprise fanctions actually debated and discussed the points instead of shrieking and gibbering.
The feedback has often gotten so nasty that I don't bother looking or reading at it anymore. It's not because I have a thin skin but because I know it'll consist of the same dozen people yelling the same things ad nauseum who will dominate it preventing any kind of discussion from happening. And that's sad because there are people here who have contributed and are capable of contributing to the subject.
I'm not even pushing civility as an ethical virtue but just the simple fact that with people shouting back and forth 'Enterprise Sux' and 'Enterprise Rulz' and 'You Suck' and 'No You Suck' the result is just a pointless mess. If you want to challenge points it's one thing, but hysterical dementia gets you and everyone else nowhere.
THE INTERNET -- Today a shortage of punctuation led to nearly unreadable articles the world over. Notably, the popular Star Trek fan site "TrekWeb" suffered when a lengthy review by O. Deus was rendered nearly unreadable due to this grammatical tragedy.
First, the appositives suffered:
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The final third part of the Vulcan arc is the most action packed of the three paying off on much of the material that had been set up by the far slower and often more turgid previous two episodes.
Then they combined with compound sentences in a tragedy that still has left thousands unable to follow simple sentences.
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Ultimately a lot of the action scenes such as Archer fighting the Vulcans as T'Pol is captured are superfluous and really don't do much for the story but they still speed up the pace and make the episode flow quicker at the very least as a substitute for much of the pointless arguments that characterized Awakening.
Read how a few simple sentences from this article would have benefitted greatly were these markers available:
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The highlight of the episode, though, is, unsurprisingly enough, Shran , who, thanks to Jeffrey Combs always wonderful performances, immediately brings life to any scene or episode.
Alas, O. Deus' nearly unlimited supply of appositives still renders the sentence nearly unreadable even when more thoroughly punctuated. Also, the as yet unbroken shortage of aprostraphes prevents Jeffrey Combs from truly posessing his own performances in the above statement.
The sad truth is, however, that even all of the commas in the world may not have been able to save TrekWeb readers from run-on sentences such as the following excerpt:
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Indeed Shran's scenes with Ambassador Soval are the most compelling moments that Kir'Shara or any episode in the three part arc or for that matter this season have to offer and are highly reminiscent of Garak's interrogations of Odo.
But, still, having included such phrases as "of course" in comma-delimited appositives would have helped readers to no end.
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This is of course somewhat ironic since these scenes also stray from the episode's format of 'Archer with Surak in his Head Saves Vulcan' but at the same time point the way to something far deeper which is Andorian and Vulcan reconciliation.
Further horrid examples flowed on and on to such an extent that to list them here would result in an article longer than the original. Periods were sometimes employed in order to make the topics far more readable, with the only downside being a few sentences that began with conjunctions.
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He's not acting like a Vulcan or even a Romulan but every villain cliche in the book right down to detaining a minister who protests against his actions. And of course his downfall comes in cliched villain style as Archer and T'Pau saunter into the room and put everything to rights in a matter of minutes.
Although any grammar teacher would cringe at such things, they have been found to be acceptable on occasion. Grammatical blunders continued until a small supply of commas that had been flown in saved much of the rest of the article. True some were omitted, and others were used in the places of periods or semicolons...
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In Awakening Surak claimed that even Syran himself was too corrupted to properly be the guardian of his teachings, by Kir'Shara simply flashing some of Surak's teaching on a holographic screen was enough to end all the violence.
...but, eventually, some found their proper places...
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It's possible to quibble that humans are once again getting foolishly involved in a conflict between two species, either of which could blow the Enterprise to bits, but the door closed on that particular objection years ago.
...while others attempted to form appositives, but were foiled by a lack of teamwork with other commas, whereas periods filled the places of still others...
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Still Enterprise attacking a Vulcan cruiser, considering the disparity in firepower hangs on the lunatic fringe. As it taking sides in a conflict in which neither side is all that clean.
We're hoping that this shortage will end soon, once again resulting in readable articles everywhere. Hopefully this news item has not used the remaining supply of commas, but U.N. forces will soon be shipping in more, following their recent successful shipments of consonants to Ethiopia and the subsequent shipment of vowels to Bosnia (see article). While some may say that any article is doomed to face some grammatical errors (just as I'm sure this one has as well) and certainly there are some areas where comma usage is worthy of debate, hopefully such large scale tragedies as this can be prevented in the future.
Reported by wise guy on TrekWeb.
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"You know what six movies average out to be really good? The first six Star Trek movies!" -- Fry, Futurama
I have to admit, nine episodes into season four and I am somewhat unimpressed with what I have seen. Of course, I didn’t expect Manny Coto to simply step in and weave a magic blanket over the tinkering Rick Berman and Brannon Braga had etched into this show during its initial outing. I expected it would take time to get things right, but frankly, I never pledged full faith in the man himself; I was cautious but optimistic. I wanted to see what he was capable of as much as the next person, but I wasn’t expecting him to snap his stubby fingers and right all the wrongs straight away. Still, season four has been a worthy entrant into the franchise, and has even set out to give us a new angle on what has come before it.
Let me get one thing straight. While I understand and can see where B&B went wrong, I feel they did deliver us an enjoyable debut and sophomore season. Yes, the characters were paper-thin, yes it was too focused on digital effects rather than optimistic ideas and ripe stories, but it was a promising start. Season three was a step in the right direction; admittedly not as good as promised, and there still wasn’t enough focus on the characters, but it was doing something right. It told a good, engaging story and made the viewer aware of its on-screen presence.
I enjoy Enterprise; I enjoyed it during season one and two, while admitting its many weaknesses and failings, but I enjoyed it all the same. While I think that even its third year couldn’t hold a candle to any of the DS9 seasons (yes, even the abbreviated first season), I began to sit up and wonder, wonder whether B&B were actually prepared to now do the right thing and really get down and dirty with quality storytelling and strong characters.
When I heard that they were relinquishing control of the series to Odyssey creator Manny Coto, I was neither joyous nor disapproving. As mentioned above, I remained cautious.
Critics have suddenly turned 180 on Enterprise of late, proclaiming it as a show maturing, a show finally realising its potential. Now, I am sorry, but am I alone in thinking that nine episodes into season three, this time last year, Enterprise seemed much more progressive and more mature than it does now? I can’t help but feel Enterprise has take something of a step backwards during the last nine episodes. All the steam and ambition built last year has dissipated, all the energy has burnt out and now we have a show that seems to think it can flaunt some Original Series references and get away with glowing reviews.
Don’t get me wrong, I have enjoyed this first venture into a new Enterprise, it has been good. But why, oh, why are the critics suddenly having illusions of grandeur? I am sorry, but to me season four has done nothing new, its writing quality has not shown improvement, nor has its respect for the character growth, which is already something of a no-show on Enterprise as it is. Season four has not in any way demonstrated the ability to branch out or do something special. It has not done anything other than psychologically weave itself into new hands to differentiate itself from B&B's version of this show.
O.Deus receives some backlash from the readers of TrekWeb for simply expressing his opinion, much in the same way, I am sure, that others who oppose my critique will do so too. I don't always agree with O.Deus, but his judgement on season four has been the closest that mirrors my experience with it so far. Time will tell of course, but so far I am not entirely convinced. It further confuses me when I see that over 70% of voters pledge a perfect score to the recent slew of episodes, including the bore-fest that was 'Awakening', an episode that received practically unanimous praise, yet bored me half to death with its unfocused editing, and bland dialogue and drab settings. I'd be willing to bet that the same episode scribed in B&B's seasons would have been viewed much more differently by the fans, not for good, but for worse.
Is Enterprise being subjected to physiological brainwashing? I can't help but think so. If it keeps receiving the kind of over-the-top praise it has had recently, then the powers that be could become over confident in their abilities, and reduce the show to the kinds of episodes and stories we have had already. If fans are genuinely happy with that, then so be it, but my wandering attention needs more than just a few oddball homage’s and ‘decent’ scripting to keep me alert, it needs strength in numbers, it needs entertainment.
I agree with Deus. Although the story did set up the Vulcan / Andorian reconciliation, and take Earth to the next step in their space faring evolution, the story itself was loose and not very compelling. Granted there were a lot of plot devices thrown in in the attempt to keep it interesting, but for the most part, they missed.
The premise, however, was unbelievable. The bombing of the Earth embassy was a terrorist attack that the Andorians had nothing to do with. And, there was no evidence the Andorians had kept any of the Xindi technology. Are we that stupid to accept the idea that a respected world leader (V’Las) would use such a terrorist attack as an excuse to manufacture rumors of weapons of mass destruction in order to launch a pre-emptive strike against an unrelated target?
No wait…
Never mind.
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Good call! I wonder if the whole arc was an insider jab at the war in Iraq? Enterprise began right after September 11th (its premier was delayed, in fact, so that the nation could begin make sense of what was going on and begin to heal from it). I remember reading a lot about how Enterprise was going to continue Star Trek's wonderful premise of telling the stories of reality through the guise of fiction. The plan was to parallel today's issues with the Enterprise crew's missions. We definetely got that with the Xindi attack on Earth. We sort of got that with the resulting year-long arc that tried to resolve it. I don't know how I missed it but the parallel you drew from the past three week's Vulcan arc and the war in Iraq was right on target. So, maybe the idea is not implausible after all. Again, good call.
In past posts I have said that I am enjoying Star Trek Enterprise this year because, yes, I do enjoy the attempts they are making at continuity. I try not to read into things too much, even though, I admit, some things are laughably off-base. However, some on this website conclude that the people who are still actually enjoying the show are not bringing enough intelligence or critical thinking to the show. Damn right I'm not. Star Trek is a science FICTION show. I am aware that their science is, yes, often based on science fact. But do the issues have to be so CNN?
It can be argued that The Next Generation was probably one of the smartest shows in television history (and I am not talking about the technobable). It involved complex interpersonal relationships within the confines of a military hierarchy. It delt with serious emotional and political issues such as family death and deadly epidemics like AIDS. It was a damn good show. But when it was on, America was a different place. Television was certainly a different kind of medium. TNG wasn't competing with reality shows, shows with excessive sex and violence (on the networks and basic cable stations), or 24 hour non-stop news. And TNG wasn't dealing with an America on the edge. Neither was DS9 or Voyager.
Enterprise has it's work cut out for it, but if it starts to get too dark and serious (I mean, ten times DS9 type of serious), then I might go elsewhere with my time. Don't get me wrong, I love shows that deal with our modern times. I do have a thinking man/woman's show to go to for that - the West Wing. When I want to escape this world, I watch Enterprise.
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Quote:
It can be argued that The Next Generation was probably one of the smartest shows in television history (and I am not talking about the technobable). It involved complex interpersonal relationships within the confines of a military hierarchy. It delt with serious emotional and political issues such as family death and deadly epidemics like AIDS. It was a damn good show. But when it was on, America was a different place. Television was certainly a different kind of medium. TNG wasn't competing with reality shows, shows with excessive sex and violence (on the networks and basic cable stations), or 24 hour non-stop news. And TNG wasn't dealing with an America on the edge. Neither was DS9 or Voyager.
Amnesia has set in I see. ;-)
As an FYI, the 24-hour/day CNN came on the air in 1980. That was 7 years before TNG premiered. ;-) The FIRST Iraq War of January 1992, which happened during TNG's 5th season, put CNN on the map.
And it might not have been "reality shows" that were the thing back then (although "America's Funniest Home Vidoes" and "Cops" WERE running concurrent with TNG and were the beginning of the craze) , but it damn sure was nighttime soap operas like "Dynasty", "Dallas", "Falcon Crest" and on and on.
And BTW, between 1987 - 1994, the U.S. was engaged in the invasion of Panama, where the new B2 stealth bomber supposedly did some tests, the invasion of Iraq with 500,000 troops, the fall of the Berlin Wall, the ordeal of Gorbachev and Yeltsin and glastnost and START II, the breakup of Yugoslavia and U.S. troops involved in that, yadda yadda.
I think sometimes one forgets what things were like back then, somehow trying to make it seem so utopic. It wasn't. What is different now is that the internal security of the country has been beefed up, and ratched up by the news media. But really, the edge WAS there back then (consider that the first WTC bombing happened in Feb. 1993 during TNG's 6th season.
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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Hell, Jad, I'm not as old as you (I'm 37) but I remember growing up with the cold war. People bitch and moan about how bad things are today but I recall Jimmy Carter giving the world away to the Russkies, then Reagan going toe to toe with 'em. There was talk of nuclear proliferation, Mutuall Assured Destruction, Star Wars laser beam satellites, the works.
Fuck, people don't know how easy they've got it today. Sure, I'm worried that some terrorist nutjob might have a suitcase-sized nuclear bomb and they may plant it in Detroit, but when I was a kid it was the whole planet that seemed on the line.
So you're right, people who look back at the "good old days" don't realize just how scary they could be.
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
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Yeah - Ford tripping all over the place, Carter printing all that money, wire-tapping rampant, Abscam, lol. 
Thank goodness for SNL! 
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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I knew that line would come back to haunt me.
I certainly realize that CNN was around and goofy Bob Saget was on top with America's Funniest... but it really wasn't the same - not at all. At least not for me.
I am 27, I hold a degree in broadcast journalism and, through a twist of fate, I am now in a profession I am truley grateful to have found - teaching. Fifth and sixth graders are more in tune with the realities of war and sex then ever before. They are concerned about it. It comes across in their writing and through our class discussions.
I started watching TNG late. A friend of mine had taped the series over the years and I began catching up in 1994. I wasn't thinking about terrorism in my back yard (and my neighbors and friends worked in New York - some in the World Trade Center in fact). Sure, there were things going on out there, but kids were, for the most part, shielded. Even after the first bombing of the WTC in 1993, when I was in high school, I wasn't growing up with fear (which I am very grateful to God for). Kids today are afraid. They sense what is going on. All they have to do is turn on one of the (now) THREE major 24 hour "blow everything out of preportion" news channels. Fox News Alert is as common as Cheerios in the morning to some of them. Heck, there is even a chapter in our text book devoted to September 11th already. Terrorism is now has a place as a headline in history. I'm not sure that was the case in the eighties and nineties. Again, it was out there, but not drilled into kids like it is today.
And, the first Gulf War was a relatively brief and it was a victory with a clear winner and loser. It was followed by an unpreceidented period of economic opportunity. Things were hopeful, for the individual. Again, there were events happening around the world and, yes, we had Bosnia and a Presidential impeachment - but individuals were not filled with an overwhelming sense of "it can happen to me too" feeling like they do today.
I don't look back at the world and think that it was a utopia. I'm a social studies teacher - I know better. But, I do look at the American childhood I was brought up in and, compared to kids today, it sure as hell was utopian. My students will never be able to say that there was a time when they were not aware that there were poltical dangers in the world that could hurt them. It's a tragedy but it's now our reality.
What I was trying to say about Star Trek was that it doesn't have to play into that reality. It can and should recall the hopes and dreams of mankind. Let's see what's out there. I don't want lizard terrorists attacking Earth. Archer is not Tommy Franks. Archer is the leader of a group of explorers. It was supposed to be about hope. Now what we are getting is just not matching that desire. I continue to watch it because I think it's getting better and, quite frankly, I'm a fan and I do enjoy most aspects of it. But it just isn't hopeful anymore. I miss that.
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I grew up during the duck and cover '60s where the world was going to come to an end from a nuclear bomb and we still had black-out shades in the classrooms that got pulled down during detention drills, where the school itself was a designated "Bomb Shelter", and where we were also told to either sit under the desk or go out in the hallway with a book and sit along the wall. This was the time of the "Cold War" and the Vietnam War.
Is there more media out there pimping it? Of course. Do children get assaulted by it a bit more. Naturally. Do those children focus on current events and the horrors of the world in their leisure time more than children did in previous eras? No. If anything, all the TV "choice" allows kids to actually AVOID the news very easily. Back during the '60s, TV didn't even run 24 hours/day. At midnight up popped the "Test pattern" after they did the national anthem.
I have 15 nieces and nephews aged 10 - 29 and for the most part, the kids among them are STILL kids. They play with their PS2s and Gameboys, want the latest CD of their favorite group, are trying to save up to buy a car, once they PASS the driver's exam... ;-), either think girls are "stupid" or "cute", lament about using up all their minutes on the cell phone, and want a ride to the mall to see the latest flick.
I really think that kids are more adaptable then one wants to let on and they pay some attention, but there are so many cooler things for them to pay attention to that they really don't absorb it as much as one might think. ;-) And your thinking of "terrorism in your backyard now" is because why? You're an adult NOW. But the terrorism has always been there. Back in 1970 when I took my first trip to England, it was right in the midst of a new form of terrorism known as "skyjacking" (now just called "hijacking" of planes). ;-) And so there in 1970 at Gatwick Airport, I and everyone else experienced the type of security that is now in place in the U.S. - where everyone was patted down and searched upon entering the country of England (men in one line, women and children in another - with correspondingly sexed security agents doing the searches), and where we were told that plain-clothes U.S. Marshals were flying on our plane because of the threat.
That wasn't in 2001. That was in 1970.
And I think TNG became popular because of alot of the negativity in the news even then, where the roarin' Reagan '80s came crashing down all around leading to a recession.
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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I guess it's all just a matter of perspective and age. When I get the chance to talk to my folks about the world today my father always says - and I am paraphrasing - that it has always been this way. I never wanted to believe that. Our little exchange here has made me realize that they did a damn good job sheltering me from the negative things growing up. Come to think of it, they encouraged me to learn as much as I could about the good stuff that was out there. That's probably why I became a teacher. And that's probably why I found Star Trek such a rewarding show to watch.
There's an aweful lot of opinion at TrekWeb (the way it should be). Yes, it can get pretty negative but at least we can all agree that Star Trek brings people together. Thanks for your time -I've enjoyed our exchange.
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Well as a teacher, you can always get the digs in there and hook the kids onto Trek!
The age group you're teaching are little helpers - pre-adolescents and very impressionable. Get 'em before they hit junior high (when I had just gotten out of college, I was subbing as a Science Teacher for that age group and up to high schoolers for awhile until I got my current job, so I know how they are). Sounds like they have a good teacher!
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
Good review, Deus.
The Reeves-Stevens' are gracious in thanking B&B and others for their "contributions" to the Vulcan arc, but the end result onscreen is familiar Berman Trek. The one and only Vulcan character in the story, Arev/Syrran, is promptly cast aside as inferior to the superhuman -- the supervulcan -- Archer. Why did V'Las get the humans involved, whom he fears? The story is based on a nonsensical premise. Does lowering Soval's "emotional threshold" release his suppressed barbarian id? No, it brings out his inner child, and what a bawler he is! Just as T'Pol has been a weepy wreck, since being stripped of her mental discipline. This is how B&B+C see the inner Vulcan. Weak.
TOS kiss-blowing is no substitute for sensible and coherent storytelling, which is why S4 viewership lingers below the S3 numbers that brought ENT to the brink of cancellation.
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Shatner @ VH1 Big in '04: "Beam me up, Denny Crane!"
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What crap!
They had a large influence as story editors on ALL episodes of the Vulcan arc, shock!!!! There isn't much difference between Arev and any other Vulcan's in the arc.
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Hoshi: I was hoping you'd put up a fight.
T'Pol: I'm surprised you're not exhausted from all the beds, you've jumped into, recently.
"In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II"
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Quote from Mr. Xindi:
There isn't much difference between Arev and any other Vulcan's in the arc.
Nonsense. The way Arev handles Archer and T'Pol is vastly different from T'Pau's response to them. Arev behaves like someone who has no emotional investment in their obvious deception, which is what we can expect from someone who's in control of his passions. T'Pau's apprehension keeps Archer and T'Pol jailed, long after the mind-meld that confirmed Surak's katra and Archer's search for the truth.
Aside from control of their emotions, Vulcans have never been conquered. Fear and apprehension are never their response to a potential threat, or even to death, as we learn from Spock in The Immunity Syndrome, and from the Surak in The Savage Curtain. This is the calm conviction that we see from Arev. Meanwhile, T'Pau, V'Las, and even Surak's katra, act out of irrational mistrust.
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Shatner @ VH1 Big in '04: "Beam me up, Denny Crane!"
Deus... You said exactly what I'm thinking, again.
Season 4 seems to be more of a "look at me! I've got continuity", as it cartwheels over various Trek trivia and forgets to tell an engaging story. If this trend continues, than the rest of the season will be just as mediocre.
I don't know what the rest of you guys watch, but when I see all this praise for "Borderland" and everything that came after it, I sometimes get the feeling that the shows you watch outside of Enterprise must be utter crap.
With all the stupid arguments I see happening on this site, I see that a lot of you have large amounts of spare time. I suggest read a good book, about Star Trek or otherwise.
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Quote:
Season 4 seems to be more of a "look at me! I've got continuity", as it cartwheels over various Trek trivia and forgets to tell an engaging story. If this trend continues, than the rest of the season will be just as mediocre.
I don't know what the rest of you guys watch, but when I see all this praise for "Borderland" and everything that came after it, I sometimes get the feeling that the shows you watch outside of Enterprise must be utter crap.
I actually dug the Augments/Borderland arc. It told a fairly decent story with continuity sprinkled in to flesh it out. Also good scenery chewing by Spiner was a plus as well. The Vulcan arc, by contrast, was just a continuity reference wank fest.
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An elephant never forgets . . .TO KILL!
No surprise here. In fact, I think I was quite close to predicting the review...
Read O. Deus's Review in advance
Even though I can't see the overall score, by his review, I could guess the episode got a 6 or less (with the arc getting an overall D). But that is no surprise already.
I really think there should more official reviewers. Perhaps Trekweb could hire a second reviewer... one that appears to be a direct opposite to O. Deus. We can let the two battle it out (like Ebert and Roper) while everybody else participates.
But reading the same review week after week is becoming so stale and predictable. I hope I won't have to make anymore O. Deus predictions in the future....
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"We're starfleet officers....weird is part of the job!"
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Quote:
But reading the same review week after week is becoming so stale and predictable.
It's funny, we here in RealityLand(TM) were just saying the same thing about those gusher reviews that show up week after week. Call me crazy, but they seem to be pretty predictable and stale themselves.
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Quote:
It's funny, we here in RealityLand(TM) were just saying the same thing about those gusher reviews that show up week after week. Call me crazy, but they seem to be pretty predictable and stale themselves.
Yet you continue to watch week after week, bringing the ratings up, yet you hate the show with a bone chilling passion...
Way to save ENTERPRISE there, asshole.
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"If any one of you question my Chinese or American heritage as a negative, I will have your f**king head." - O Ren Shi Ii "KILL BILL Vol 1"
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People need to get past comparing the ratings between Season 3 and Season 4. More people watch TV on Wednesdays vs Fridays.
And whoever this Deus character is...IMHO, he comes across as one of those know-it-alls that is sooooo above the rest of us. And it also appears to me the more us dummies like an episode, arc, whatever, he puts more negativity into the reviews. He's so predictable that is is very boring. I like one persons idea of having a second official reviewer in here to help balance things out.
It comes of no surprise Deus didn't like this episode.
In fact, can anyone remember the last time Deus thought Star Trek was good?
Since I've no bashing of Voyager [which UPS props around like the best Trek ever-LOL] but of DSN & TNG I guess Deus must have like that.
Hey Deus, when was the last time you enjoyed Trek?
From what I read, just before "The Man Trap" aired back in '66.
I got an idea Deus, stop watching Trek and you wont be disappointed.
You know, it's funny. Last season, I didn't think you were hard enough on the show. This year, I think you're at best dismissive and at worst blind to its considerable charms.
Enterprise now--finally--is actualizing its potential and doing so on a number of fronts.
Plot-wise, obviously.
But the characters--which are still, broadly speaking, in terrible shape--are being actively deepened in every episode. T'Pol and Trip (indivually, and in terms of their relationship) have been positively resuscitated from the truly bad choices made with them both last year.
T'Pol, in particular, has been pulled back from the intolerable horny/pouty T&A part to which she had been relegated last season and even before.
Now she's becoming more interesting all the time. And Trip was possibly the best thing about last week's episode. He's firmly entrenched in the "Scotty role" now -- in command and causing trouble with gunboat diplomacy when Kirk and Spock are off the ship. I thought this was the smartest and sharpest plot in the episode.
Are either of these characters perfect yet? Hardly. Is the writing perfect? Again, not a chance.
The resolution did fall back on too much moustache-twirling by Robert Foxworth (though I disagree with your assessment about the Romulan coda, which was a flourish that flirted with greatness).
The whole journey to the capital and the way they played the "infiltration" of the high command came off as facile -- the opposite of the dramatically-compelling, and arduous, journey across "The Forge" (which was the best episode the show has ever produced).
On the other hand, this is *obviously* due to the substantially decreased budget, and I think it's important to look at that as a glass half FULL, since they're managing *much* more imaginative storytelling of undeniably higher dramatic quality than they did when they had more money to spend. Why? Good. Writing.
That said, let me quibble with the writing: I lament that last week's episode didn't devote an entire subplot to T'Pol's apparent realization that her mother was right -- she *had* started to believe in the Syrannite philosophy, or, more precisely, recognized it for an articulation of what she already believed, both philosophically and politically. They could have enhanced her clever, but underplayed line, "I'm a Syrannite, we don't lie."
And she might have been a bit more articulate with Koss at the end -- Something on the order of, "I have learned that it is customary among humans at moments such as these to express... gratitude."
But these are quibbles, certainly nothing a polish wouldn't fix (which is not always possible in TV, at least not to the extent writers would like).
Bottom line: it finally feels like we're romping around the TOS neighborhood.
For the first time since the third feature--aka, 20 years--I bought that this was the planet Vulcan, not some generic TNG imposter. Indeed, they went out of their way to make us believe it. We should therefore go out of our way as critics *and* fans to praise and express gratitude for that. ph
I think Deus needs to take a pill. This was a really, really good episode of Star Trek. Period.
I'm sure most everyone caught the Messiah analogy throughout this episode. It was quite a good allegory about a savior and redemption, especially if you follow the savior's teachings. Nice to have some religion in Star Trek.
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Personally, I think *you* need to take the pill.
The Messiah "analogy" was obvious. You'd have to brain dead to have missed that.
As for the implications of religion, I found it distasteful. For me and most other enlightened persons, Star Trek is a place where I can go to get away from superstitious nonsense. Roddenberry was very specific in his vision that Star Trek be a future where humanity had grown past a need for a God. That's why neither TOS or TNG had no substantial mention of religion.
This episode was mediocre on a story-level, and pretty bad when compared to actual GOOD dramas on TV. The action was pointless, the plot twists were convenient, and continuity threads were dangled like carrots to get old faithful fans watching again.
While an improvement over seasons 1 through 3, season 4 still has a long way to go before it's worthy of being called "really, really good."
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And you apparently missed "Who Mourns for Adonais?" where they tackled the readed R word, Religion.
Quote:
Roddenberry was very specific in his vision that Star Trek be a future where humanity had grown past a need for a God
Quote and cite source of this. Until you do, this is pure rubish in and of itself.
In the episode I mentioned, Kirk was VERY specific when he says to Apollo...
KIRK: We don't need GODS. We find the ONE sufficient.
As for the rest of your post... well, that's your problem, buddy. Not everyone else's. Just because YOU think ENT sucks doesn't mean it sucks for everyone else. Get your head out of your ass and come on back to reality... after taking a shower first.
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"If any one of you question my Chinese or American heritage as a negative, I will have your f**king head." - O Ren Shi Ii "KILL BILL Vol 1"
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You can find references to Roddenberry's anti-religious stance sprinkled throughout the ST SE DVD's, from a Roddenberry interview on the ST:TMP Soundtrack 20th Anniversary edition (disc 2), and then there are all of the 3rd hand accounts on the web that you may trust or distrust to your own degree: http://members.aol.com/Heraklit1/startrek.htm
Remember, Roddenberry Trek (TOS + movies + TNG) had no substantial adherence to God. Sure, the name got thrown around once in a while, but Religion was never part of 23rd/24th century life -- in the Roddenberry vision.
DS9, under the guide of Berman and Moore, had plenty of mystic undertones, but still treaded the fine line of religion by establishing the major religion, The Prophets, as provable wormhole aliens. Are they Gods? Maybe, maybe not.
Voyager skipped Religion altogether, and so did Enterprise, for the most part.
As for the rest of your post, you should really check that rabid attitude that ENT is somehow GOOD. The ratings, such as they are, beg to differ.
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Thanks for having my back. I am a Christian, and enjoy Star Trek immensely. I've always wondered what will happen to religion in the next 200-300 years.
Some Trekkers seem to be absolutely repulsed by any whiff of religion because they equate it with intolerance. Some of that is justified, granted, but there are those of us who are committed to our faith, but know that there are many, many paths to God. You just have to find yours.
Thanks again.
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DS9 had an intelligent and sophisticated treatment of religion for its entire seven-year run, certainly the most development and careful consideration spiritualism has ever received in STAR TREK.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
"Little sense makes this" is how Yoda would say it. But perhaps this characterizes your lack of attention to the little details that make you come off as hating Enterprise in your reviews.
Maybe Battlestar Galactica would be more to your liking, seeing that it's often called the "anti-Trek".
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BSG calling itself the "anti-trek" is probably a good thing since, at the moment, trek equals sloppy characterization, plodding stories, and nonsensical plots.
Steve, I hope you're not paying this guy anything.
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"Aha! Advancing on me only brings you closer to the cold wrath that is my spork!" - Bucky the Katt
while I think Dues was a little hard on the Vulcan arc (aside from "Awakening", I thought that episode was just lame) this Vulcan arc was really just a mish-mash of various Trek-continuity related things that didn't quite hang together. The Augments arc had something driving it, an element of jepardoy for one, the old "ticking clock" sceneario and a compelling lead baddie with Spiner and Malik. The Vulcan arc just had various cool moments: Archer getting all Katra'd, The Soval/ Coombs confrontation, embassy bombing, the Vulcan/Andorian conflict, the Rommulan cameo ending. But it was really just all thrown out there. "Hey Look! We know Trek histroy! See! Lookatthat! Wheeee!!" Aguments arc had elements of Trek history but it didn't rely on parading Trek history out there in order to sustain an entire arc. Sure its great to see it, but you need more driving it aside from a strung-together plot and dragging things out over 3 episodes.
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An elephant never forgets . . .TO KILL!
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Have you been kicking around inside my head or something, Buck? We're practially of one mind on this subject. ;)
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The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
This week, the Trek films were abandoned as TNG episode, 'The Mind's Eye' was plundered for inspiration.
I guess this will be called another classic episode by the Action Figure Brigade.
True, there were many chills and thrills to be had in the torture and space battle scenes. I even found T'Bush to be a compelling bad guy. Sorval was again an excellent character.
All the scenes with Archer were a complete and utter waste of time (again). How bad did it look that the same tunnels were so obviously used over and over again? And with such obvious dubbing. And worse, it was so damn boring. Archer is so damn boring. T'ass is so damn boring.
But this turned into Scooby-Doo Trek, as Archer arrived at the finale disguised only by a hooded cloak. I laughed out loud at that. Plus the contents of the whatchamacallit artifact was a little bit of a disappointment.
The surprise ending was, naturally enough for this season, set in a cave. Now, if it had been in a Romulan cafe with a table and fresh flower, I might have been impresssed.
There's some promise for the future shown in this episode, but the lesson from this week seems to be - remove Archer and T'ass from scenes and the show can be quite entertaining.
Paging Captain Trip and Number 2 Sorval.
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This week, the Trek films were abandoned as TNG episode, 'The Mind's Eye' was plundered for inspiration.<
And *it* "plundered" The Manchurian Candidate, so what's your point? (Not to mention: I don't see any brainwashed assassins in this week's episode). ph
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Well what do you know? NAFF recognizes a positive pairing when he sees it. I loved the arc overall, but Trinneer and Gary Graham do make a more dynamic pairing than Bakula and Blalock. If I had a choice about which scenes to watch, CT and GG win hands down.
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What the fuck are you talking about? Did anyone else understand this gibberish?
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"Worlds may change, galaxies may disintegrate, but a woman always remains a woman."
--James Kirk, "The Conscience of the King"
"Vulcan children are never late with their sehlats' dinner."
--T'Pol, "The Forge"
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Ah, you must be a member of the Action Figure Brigade. Perhaps a founder member of the wash-your-mouth-out-with-soap wing of the party?
I'm sorry you don't understand, perhaps it is for the better. Maybe you should go practice shoelaces on your teddy-bear.
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Dude, if you're going to try to be a smartass, at least speak the friggin language.
Now I'm going to go "try out shoelaces on my teddy bear," just as soon as I figure out what the hell that means.
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"Worlds may change, galaxies may disintegrate, but a woman always remains a woman."
--James Kirk, "The Conscience of the King"
"Vulcan children are never late with their sehlats' dinner."
--T'Pol, "The Forge"
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You are 'clearly the classic example of the inverse proporion between the size of brain and the size of mouth'.
I see you have nothing to comment on about the episode, just spew foul language. For that you are not worthy of any future replies. Have a forgettable existance, for what is left of it (which I hope be short).
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Um, yeah, I think he's saying he didn't like it. ;-)
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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