I don't see how they can explain this in ENT's timeframe, since the TNG episode "Rightful Heir" established Kahless as a "current" Klingon with ridges, long hair, and the works.
They really need to leave it alone, at least in ENT's timeframe.
LLaP
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THAT is the Exploration that awaits you: not mapping stars or studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of Existence.
Quote:
David-Gerrold-rip-off-of-Heinlein-fuzz-balls
Tribbles are actaully Martian females?! I must grok this!
Quote:
As for Worf not having had to be "there at all", come on, Jadzia, Michael Dorn was part of the frickin' cast.
We've had several episodes throughout the franchise, where one or two cast members are missing. Quark is a main character and he had a 5-second non-speaking role in that episode. Jadzia is just pointing out that the same could have been done for Worf then we wouldn't have the problem.
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"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek: The Beginning
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
While I commend Enterprise for tackling this issue I think a few major things are being overlooked.
The difference in the 'old' and 'new' klingons isn't just a few bumps on the forehead, the whole look changed, it's a completely different species. As well as forehead ridges, their noses are bigger and flatter with a few bumps as well, their mouths and pointed teeth, hair, dark skin colour, warrior dress, height, build, the gruff tone of their voices their language, every thing is different.
To say that the only prosthetic effect used to make an actor into a Klingon is a few bumps on the forehead is an insult to Michael Dorn and any other poor sod that had to sit in Michael Westmore's make-up chair for seven hours a day.
... and ballsy. 
There is a good-sized segment of the fandom who are Klingon fans. These are folks who are fluent in the language that has been developed, participate in Klingon-language email lists and forums (which do exist), dress the part at special events, participate in RPGs, etc. I don't know how many of that part of the fandom post on boards like this (the majority of the general Trek fandom doesn't post on forums), but it'll be interesting if they get wind of this. LOL There have been so many neglected segments of the fandom sitting on the sidelines twiddling their thumbs. ;-)
As a side note with respect to addressing the forehead issue - the fact that a conscious decision was made by the showrunners in DS9 "Trials and Tribble-ations" to NOT have Worf off on some mission or still on the station while the rest of the crew are back in time, which they could have easily done, is on them. The comment by Worf may have been in jest, but he damn sure didn't have to be there at all.
Instead they allowed him to interact in that era and permitted his collegues to see obviously different-looking Klingons then himself. This of course, sets up the scene actually acknowledging the differences and fleshing some things out from the Klingon perspective regarding what the rest of the crew were seeing and the deal with Tribbles, where suddenly, Tribbles have a "homeworld", and are not just simple animals who are merely "born pregnant", but are some more intelligent species. ;-)
My thing is this - Here is Arne Darvin. He IS a Klingon:
And the acceptance of the ability to do manipulation and altering enough to produce this guy, who for all intents and purposes appeared Human inside and out (except for the litmus test that was a tribble), indicates that it's obviously do-able. And I think the virus issue is one that could be plausible in that it would be a temporary thing and once a vaccine is found, could allow a reversion back, as was noted by Kor, Kang, and Koloth in DS9 "Blood Oath", where all 3 have ridges. Of course that ep delved into genetic viruses that were released by "The Albino" against their first born during TOS times, and the trio plus Jadzia (with the memories of Curzon), had sworn a Blood Oath against him.
If what is done is entertaining, why the hell not?
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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Arne Darvin did NOT check out as human inside and out.
Somehow he'd gotten his job as "assistant" to Mr. Annoying without being checked out medically. McCoy got a single scan of him and immediately said "This man is a Klingon".
It was the outward appearance only that was changed, Inside, Darvin was Klingon.
As for the reference to the Tribble home-world on the DS9 episode, this does NOT mean they were intelligent. It simply means they came from somewhere.
Ooooh! Grand revelation! :)
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Hey Jadzia,
A minor quibble: why do you take the term "homeworld" to somehow imply that a species is sentient?
I've watched Trials and Tribble-ations many times, and have never come away thiking David-Gerrold-rip-off-of-Heinlein-fuzz-balls were intelligent.I think you're reading something into this ep that is just not there. Not even hinted.
Can't we say a moose's "homeworld" is Earth without thinking they run a government or teach at a university? ; )
As for Worf not having had to be "there at all", come on, Jadzia, Michael Dorn was part of the frickin' cast. They gave him good lines
and allowed him to play part of this very entertaining hommage (WAY more clever and engaging than Flashback).
Normally, I find your comments quite perspicacious, but I think you're just picking nits here.
Nothing personal. For the record, I AM aware that I'm commenting on what you clearly labelled a side note in your post.
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"Dieu fort, Père paterne
Qui mua l'eau en vin,
Fais de mon cul lanterne
Pour luyre à mon voisin."
- Panurge, dans le Cinquième Livre de Françoys Rabelais
Didn't Dax have a friend who was IN the TOS stories... who was in DS9 as an old klingon and HAD RIDGES IN DS9... this is just wrong.. baaaaaaaaaaaaad go away dumb story go away!... unless its done in just jest and fun...
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Wow. Sortof way off there.
Jadzia's previous host, Curzon, had sworn a Blood Oath, along with Kor, Kang, and Koloth back some 80 years before the ep DS9 "Blood Oath", against a ruthless antagonist called "The Albino", and during the ep, the guy's whereabouts were discovered and they were going to carry that assassination out.
The fact that DS9 chose to allow Worf to even travel back into time and interact in that period in DS9 "Trials and Tribble-ations", while having Bashir and O'Brien suddenly see ridgeless Klingons and remark about them, and of course see the Human-looking Arne Darvin... and then the ep starts fleshing out Triblbles who suddenly have a "homeworld", was the fault of DS9, the show that always seems to be immune from critique. ;-)
If what they do is entertaining, what difference does it make? It seems that ENT has spent too many hours producing T & A and soap opera instead of fleshing out the era pre-Federation, so let it come.
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
Is this the explanation?? That Coto left it as a simple disease? Or, will he connect it to "The Augments" arc...showing that the Klingons were impressed with Genetic engineering and attempted it themselves. Because, if it's just a simple disease, I really don't think it's a very original thought...
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"My old friend, this song's for you. Cause a few simple verses was the least that I could do to tell the world that you were here. Cause the love and the laughter, will live on long after all of the sadness and the tears. We'll meet again, my old friend"
Tim McGraw "My Old Friend"
Dedicated To My Home..New Orleans
Well, there's no doubt this is a contentious issue. I read the posts below.
HOWEVER, there's also no doubt everyone will tune in to watch it. It'll get good ratings. Now slap a preview for the following week's ep after it, and you've got a win-win scenario for Coto et al.
With this idea, they really can't go wrong (unless the episode is another "Spock's Brain.")
There were some hooded aliens in "Journey to Babel". Anyone think they have decided those were Rigelians?
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Quote:
There were some hooded aliens in "Journey to Babel". Anyone think they have decided those were Rigelians?
I've actually speculated before that those aliens could be Xindi-Primates.
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"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek: The Beginning
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
This could be another plus for ENT and the franchise as a whole! Honestly, I can't help but wonder how many people have ever noticed the so-called continuity issues with the Vulcans, hence I doubt they will recognise the current Vulcan arc as being something that is trying to explain anything. But people will surely notice an attempt to explain the human-looking Klingons! If "Affliction" turns out to be a believable story that doesn't introduce new and glaring problems, I think it will be well received.
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Yes, this fixes yet another glaring problem with the canon. I think that anyone who can't see the wisdom in addressing this issue can't really be a heavy fan of STAR TREK. This move will actually mean further survival of the franchise.
When te first ridged Klingon was ever seen, he was introduced with an element of shock value injected into the moment. Now we'll find out after all these years that a shameful incident caused by Klingons brought about a change in their physiology. Apparently they eventually learned something from the experience.
This is a positive move for the franchise.
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"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here."
Man oh MAN do I HATE this!! The change in Klingon makeup
should NEVER NEVER NEVER be mentioned of acknowledged on screen!!
No good explaination can ever be given and anything they come up with
will be convoluted and dumb. There WAS NO CHANGE in appearance for
the Klingons!!!! They have ALWAYS looked the SAME to the characters
on the screen. It is only the AUDIENCE who ever noticed a change!
The change in makeup is simular to a change in animation style on an
animated series. No "canon" reason was ever given by the Loony Tunes
writers as the why Elmer Fudd's appearance changed from the early
episodes to the later episodes. No reason should be given on STAR
TREK either!
DS9's "Trials and Tribblations" handled the subject perfectly with
Worf dismissing the changes by refusing to talk about it. They took
something that had no explaination and simply had Worf refuse to
explain it. It was funny, and a million times better then anything
the writers could have come up with.
This is the first terrible idea that Manny COtto has come up with.
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NO! NO! NO! This inconsistancy between TOS human-looking Klingons and the true Klingons that are seen in every other live-action Star Trek adaptation cannot be left hanging any longer. It must either be explained within the story in full, or TOS needs to be remade with all new technology and true Klingons. The producers had a chance to explain this in the DS9 episode "Trials and Tribble-ations", but they decided to drop the ball, instead. However, we did learn that the whole situation involving the human-looking Klingons apparently brought shame and disgrace to the Klingon Empire, which would explain why Worf appeared embarrassed and disgusted to be around the human-looking Klingons in the bar, and why he said that it is all a long story that the true Klingons never discuss with outsiders.
Remember that Star Trek is a classic live-action story, and not a silly cartoon in which changes and inconsistancies can take place freely. For instance, how many times did the old Road Runner cartoons show ol' Wile E. Coyote falling a great distance into a deep chasm, only to suddenly come back alive, intact, and unharmed? Was he invulnerable, or something? Anyway, Star Trek is not that kind of story. It is a high-quality story that would not leave inconsistancies hanging. Therefore, if Manny Coto has come up with a good in-story explanation for the human-looking Klingons, well then more power to him!
One thing that ENTERPRISE does need to get rid of is the Klingon Bird-of-Prey starships that it has been featuring. That design of Klingon starship is not supposed to have existed for at least another century. Instead, the series needs to feature old-fashioned versions of the classic Klingon Battle Cruiser. Even the trapezoid-shaped patch of light like we saw in the TOS episode "Friday's Child" would successfully pass as a Klingon ship in the early time setting that ENTERPRISE is set in. ENTERPRISE needs to go back to having that delightfully primitive "prequel" look, and not appear like a contemporary of TNG and VOYAGER.
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Quote:
NO! NO! NO! This inconsistancy between TOS human-looking Klingons and the true Klingons that are seen in every other live-action Star Trek adaptation cannot be left hanging any longer.
Why? Why can't people just accept the real world explanation and move on with their damn lives? Why do fans of a science fiction/fantasy show have to be so damn literal-minded when it comes to this blasted issue? Why do they want to be condescended to by some lame explanation? Can't use a bit of imagination?
Quote:
It must either be explained within the story in full, or TOS needs to be remade with all new technology and true Klingons.
The first choice: completely unnecessary. The second choice: completely unnecessary and just plain ridiculous. Get some perspective.
Quote:
Remember that Star Trek is a classic live-action story, and not a silly cartoon in which changes and inconsistancies can take place freely. For instance, how many times did the old Road Runner cartoons show ol' Wile E. Coyote falling a great distance into a deep chasm, only to suddenly come back alive, intact, and unharmed? Was he invulnerable, or something?
Was the idea that he was "invulnerable" even the point? No. It was a simple one joke premise that was mined beautifully: the coyote always thinks he's outfoxed the road runner to always be defeated. The unexpected failure that generated the laughs was the point.
Quote:
Anyway, Star Trek is not that kind of story. It is a high-quality story that would not leave inconsistancies hanging.
A story inconsistency sure, though for being a "high-quality" story, Trek sure has plenty of those. But a visual inconsistency? Curse Trials and Tribble-ations for breaking the fourth wall about this. Or maybe curse the fans for not just laughing at the joke and moving on. Why don't people look at it the same way they constantly redesign and update the uniforms? Or the look of the Andorians?
Quote:
One thing that ENTERPRISE does need to get rid of is the Klingon Bird-of-Prey starships that it has been featuring. That design of Klingon starship is not supposed to have existed for at least another century.
Says who? What source? Sure, the good old BOP is under all that bulky add-ons, but I really don't mind that at all.
Quote:
Instead, the series needs to feature old-fashioned versions of the classic Klingon Battle Cruiser. Even the trapezoid-shaped patch of light like we saw in the TOS episode "Friday's Child" would successfully pass as a Klingon ship in the early time setting that ENTERPRISE is set in.
Earlier you suggested "redoing" TOS to be more in line with later series and yet now you want Enterprise to use the indistinct and blurry special effects of TOS. Which is it?
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Quote:
Quote:NO! NO! NO! This inconsistancy between TOS human-looking Klingons and the true Klingons that are seen in every other live-action Star Trek adaptation cannot be left hanging any longer.
Why? Why can't people just accept the real world explanation and move on with their damn lives? Why do fans of a science fiction/fantasy show have to be so damn literal-minded when it comes to this blasted issue? Why do they want to be condescended to by some lame explanation? Can't use a bit of imagination?
Quote:It must either be explained within the story in full, or TOS needs to be remade with all new technology and true Klingons.
The first choice: completely unnecessary. The second choice: completely unnecessary and just plain ridiculous. Get some perspective.
Quote:Remember that Star Trek is a classic live-action story, and not a silly cartoon in which changes and inconsistancies can take place freely. For instance, how many times did the old Road Runner cartoons show ol' Wile E. Coyote falling a great distance into a deep chasm, only to suddenly come back alive, intact, and unharmed? Was he invulnerable, or something?
Was the idea that he was "invulnerable" even the point? No. It was a simple one joke premise that was mined beautifully: the coyote always thinks he's outfoxed the road runner to always be defeated. The unexpected failure that generated the laughs was the point.
Quote:Anyway, Star Trek is not that kind of story. It is a high-quality story that would not leave inconsistancies hanging.
A story inconsistency sure, though for being a "high-quality" story, Trek sure has plenty of those. But a visual inconsistency? Curse Trials and Tribble-ations for breaking the fourth wall about this. Or maybe curse the fans for not just laughing at the joke and moving on. Why don't people look at it the same way they constantly redesign and update the uniforms? Or the look of the Andorians?
Quote:One thing that ENTERPRISE does need to get rid of is the Klingon Bird-of-Prey starships that it has been featuring. That design of Klingon starship is not supposed to have existed for at least another century.
Says who? What source? Sure, the good old BOP is under all that bulky add-ons, but I really don't mind that at all.
Quote:Instead, the series needs to feature old-fashioned versions of the classic Klingon Battle Cruiser. Even the trapezoid-shaped patch of light like we saw in the TOS episode "Friday's Child" would successfully pass as a Klingon ship in the early time setting that ENTERPRISE is set in.
Earlier you suggested "redoing" TOS to be more in line with later series and yet now you want Enterprise to use the indistinct and blurry special effects of TOS. Which is it?
Alright, well first I take back what I said about the Klingon Bird-of-Prey starships. There was nothing actually shown or stated on television indicating that the Romulan-Klingon technology exchange took place around the time of the TOS episode "The Enterprise Incident" when Captain Kirk and his crew first saw a Romulan Battle Cruiser which was based on the Klingon design. The technology exchange between the two races may have actually taken place in the previous century. That is why Klingon Birds-of-Prey appear on ENTERPRISE. Furthermore, since they have already been featured on the show, there can be no reversal of that, so they might as well be accepted as canon.
To answer your question, Sxottlan, I am not suggesting that a modern day Star Trek show use the indistinct and blurry special effects of TOS. On the contrary! I was suggesting that a modern-day remake of TOS be done to appeal to today's viewing audience, who might find the 1960s Star Trek appearing too old and outdated. The TOS remake would use current special effects for a good clear image, plus feature true Klingons, with the ridged foreheads. That would eliminate any need to explain the human-looking Klingons that appeared in the 1960s Star Trek show.
What is ridiculous is a series that has a major inconsistancy that is left to pass without any explanation. That is what the reference to cartoons was all about. However, Star Trek is no joke, and it appears that Manny Coto is going to arrange to have ENTERPRISE weave back in with the original timeline, so it will be consistant with TOS. That way, Star Trek will not look ridiculous. It not only needs the explanation for the human-looking Klingons, but also an explanation as to why Kor, Koloth, and Kang, who appeared human in TOS, have true Klingon appearance in the DS9 episode "Blood Oath".
P.S. It is about time for Mike and Denise Okuda to update their Star Trek reference books with all the new information that ENTERPRISE has provided.
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Quote:
Quote:NO! NO! NO! This inconsistancy between TOS human-looking Klingons and the true Klingons that are seen in every other live-action Star Trek adaptation cannot be left hanging any longer.
Why? Why can't people just accept the real world explanation and move on with their damn lives? Why do fans of a science fiction/fantasy show have to be so damn literal-minded when it comes to this blasted issue? Why do they want to be condescended to by some lame explanation? Can't use a bit of imagination?
Quote:It must either be explained within the story in full, or TOS needs to be remade with all new technology and true Klingons.
The first choice: completely unnecessary. The second choice: completely unnecessary and just plain ridiculous. Get some perspective.
Quote:Remember that Star Trek is a classic live-action story, and not a silly cartoon in which changes and inconsistancies can take place freely. For instance, how many times did the old Road Runner cartoons show ol' Wile E. Coyote falling a great distance into a deep chasm, only to suddenly come back alive, intact, and unharmed? Was he invulnerable, or something?
Was the idea that he was "invulnerable" even the point? No. It was a simple one joke premise that was mined beautifully: the coyote always thinks he's outfoxed the road runner to always be defeated. The unexpected failure that generated the laughs was the point.
Quote:Anyway, Star Trek is not that kind of story. It is a high-quality story that would not leave inconsistancies hanging.
A story inconsistency sure, though for being a "high-quality" story, Trek sure has plenty of those. But a visual inconsistency? Curse Trials and Tribble-ations for breaking the fourth wall about this. Or maybe curse the fans for not just laughing at the joke and moving on. Why don't people look at it the same way they constantly redesign and update the uniforms? Or the look of the Andorians?
Quote:One thing that ENTERPRISE does need to get rid of is the Klingon Bird-of-Prey starships that it has been featuring. That design of Klingon starship is not supposed to have existed for at least another century.
Says who? What source? Sure, the good old BOP is under all that bulky add-ons, but I really don't mind that at all.
Quote:Instead, the series needs to feature old-fashioned versions of the classic Klingon Battle Cruiser. Even the trapezoid-shaped patch of light like we saw in the TOS episode "Friday's Child" would successfully pass as a Klingon ship in the early time setting that ENTERPRISE is set in.
Earlier you suggested "redoing" TOS to be more in line with later series and yet now you want Enterprise to use the indistinct and blurry special effects of TOS. Which is it?
Alright, well first I take back what I said about the Klingon Bird-of-Prey starships. There was nothing actually shown or stated on television indicating that the Romulan-Klingon technology exchange took place around the time of the TOS episode "The Enterprise Incident" when Captain Kirk and his crew first saw a Romulan Battle Cruiser which was based on the Klingon design. The technology exchange between the two races may have actually taken place in the previous century. That is why Klingon Birds-of-Prey appear on ENTERPRISE. Furthermore, since they have already been featured on the show, there can be no reversal of that, so they might as well be accepted as canon.
To answer your question, Sxottlan, I am not suggesting that a modern day Star Trek show use the indistinct and blurry special effects of TOS. On the contrary! I was suggesting that a modern-day remake of TOS be done to appeal to today's viewing audience, who might find the 1960s Star Trek appearing too old and outdated. The TOS remake would use current special effects for a good clear image, plus feature true Klingons, with the ridged foreheads. That would eliminate any need to explain the human-looking Klingons that appeared in the 1960s Star Trek show.
What is ridiculous is a series that has a major inconsistancy that is left to pass without any explanation. That is what the reference to cartoons was all about. However, Star Trek is no joke, and it appears that Manny Coto is going to arrange to have ENTERPRISE weave back in with the original timeline, so it will be consistant with TOS. That way, Star Trek will not look ridiculous. It not only needs the explanation for the human-looking Klingons, but also an explanation as to why Kor, Koloth, and Kang, who appeared human in TOS, have true Klingon appearance in the DS9 episode "Blood Oath".
P.S. It is about time for Mike and Denise Okuda to update their Star Trek reference books with all the new information that ENTERPRISE has provided.
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I look at it as something that needs no explanation but that provides a lot of material to come up with a really cool story that does give an explanation. If done right, I've always thought the Klingon make-up was a great opportunity to do an interesting episode about it. My opinion is: why not? After all, Bashir et al did say "THOSE are Klingons? What happened?" meaning DS9 has already established that indeed the characters in the universe DID notice a change but hadn't mentioned it on screen before "Trials and Tribble-ations."
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
The Rigellian was created as a violet/purple skin reptilian alien with bulbous yellow eyes. At least one Rigellian is in the rec room prominently and the design was used in Milton Bradley puzzles, Topps Cards and a Mego 3 3/4 "Rigellian" action figure was released. So in effect, the Rigellians have been established already by STTMP, approved of course by G. Roddenberry.
Well, this looks cool!!!
I've been waiting for some kind of reason for the difference. Someone commented that this isn't about being a history lesson, but this move will undoubtedly answer the subject of many debates over the years. Some people just don't seem to understand the need for cohesiveness in the STAR TREK mythos. I for one support this plot point. After the previous years of anorexic ENT, this series is finally putting on a little weight. Those who oppose this answer to the Klingon ridges mystery just don't get it yet, but they will.
Ratings will increase, things will make sense in the STAR TREK universe, and the franchise will live on.
I wonder if the green fluid is extract of tribble?
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"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here."
This may in fact be a comedy episode like The Trouble With Tribbles.
If that is the ailment that inflicted TOS era Klingons, then they must have found the cure around the TOS movie era to explain why Kang, Kor and Koloth got their ridges back (In Flashback Kang had his ridges back set circa Trek VI) and of course in DS9 they all had ridges.
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"Men don't use sex to get what they want. Sex IS what they want" - Frasier
Ha!
This issue has already been addressed in DS9's Tribble episode. Worf's statement, "It's not something we discuss with outsiders," is humorous, clever, and leaves the literal answer to the imagination. It made me laugh. And of course the real answer is that the show just had not developed the makeup in the 1960s.
By taking the time to explore that literal answer, we're seeing another example of Enterprise grasping at straws to come up with stories. I don't think Ent has to be such a slave to what's been already established. If preserving continutity negates a quality episode, then ignore the continuity.
This is supposed to be television that's fun to watch, not a history class.
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I'm sorry but thats bullshit.
You don't IGNORE continuity. do you and B&B play poker together on Wednesday nights or something?
You bend, stretch and write around continuity. especially continuity ideas that originated in a scifi show thats nearly 40 years old. But, you DO NOT ignore it. Enterprise is part of the Trek Universe. You don't enter a fictional universe and start ignoring established parameters and history. A talented writer finds a way to work with it, like Coto is doing.
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A Makeup change isn't Continuity. Ignoring the makeup isn't ignoring continuity. Continuity is all about story content and the narative flow.
Krik, Spock and all saw orignal Klingons on the series and then saw new style Klingons in the movie. They never mentioned it. Sulu saw Kang oringal style on the classic series and saw Kang in new style on Voyager's Flashback. He didn't mention a change. Worf dismissed the idea of a change in appearance as a joke in "Trials and Tribbilations"
The change has always been invisible to the characters on screen as if it never happened and this idea to make the change "canon" is stupid, pointless, and will reslut in a convoluted idea that will make it all just silly.
THERE NEVER WAS A CHANGE IN APPEARANCE. They ALWAYS had ridges on thier heads. We just didn't see it.
This idea is terrible.
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Quote:
THERE NEVER WAS A CHANGE IN APPEARANCE. They ALWAYS had ridges on thier heads. We just didn't see it.
If that's how you want to approach it, great. But "Star Trek" (no bloody TNG, DS9, VOY or Ent) has always been my favorite show. And while there's a certain amount of time I can invest in Star Trek: The Universe, that's too much.
I'm not gonna sit down and think "Okay, that guy cleary looks a certain way....but he REALLY looks completely different."
No, I'm not willing to invest THAT much effort into watching a show. It's far easier to just consider the spin-offs as being a different take on the original, or as being in a slightly different universe. Thus, the original is preserved from those who think that it must conform to the spin-offs.
The idea is great.
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Everyone Booze Up And Riot!!!
Milk And Cheese
Lensman, I miss you more than my civil liberties.
...Smoking Astronaut...
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Quote:
Worf dismissed the idea of a change in appearance as a joke in "Trials and Tribbilations" ...
Quote:
THERE NEVER WAS A CHANGE IN APPEARANCE. They ALWAYS had ridges on thier heads. We just didn't see it.
While I do understand where you're coming from, you're wrong. There was a change in appearance, Dr. Bashir says so as Steve has noted above. The reason why Kirk and Spock and the gang don't notice is because it's a change that they lived through. It also happened gradually. Klingons in the movies started out with much more subdued looking ridges. As the movies progressed, the ridges became more elaborate, until TNG when they became what we know see today.
We all know the real reason for the change was budget constraints during TOS' production, but that doesn't negate the fact that something neat and completely unexpected happened in the Star Trek universe. Because the issue was danced around and never fully addressed (until Worf makes the small ambiguous reference on DS9), there's this huge part of Trek lore that has virtually no continuity boundaries to work with.
Even some people (not all) who don't watch Star Trek in any of its incarnations know about this "Ridge-gate," and it could have a Shatner-like pull on the part of the fan base that has been dormant since "Fight or Flight" (season one). I'm not saying it would have the same amount of pull as Kirk would, but they are so on the right track here... but only if they do it right!!
Quick thought... I don't think it's ever been established that Klingon ridges are static. While the basic structure stayed the same, Worf's ridges changed from season to season. Maybe the ridges change in appearance as the Klingon ages, much like our facial features change as we age. It would certainly support the notion that one could genetically alter or remove them.
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
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"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
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This move will be a healthy one for ENT. It will bring ENT back into the STAR TREK family by establishing continuity which may seem like an afterthought to some, but for many fans, it will flesh things out to where the shows are that much more fun to watch.
Screw the nay-sayers of this idea, they don't know what they're talking about.
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"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here."
Wow. Honestly, we all joked about it, but I never thought they would actually touch the ridgeless TOS Klingons with a 10 par-sec pole! You know, it could be a really cool story. It could also be really stupid, but I think the past 7 weeks have shown that the writers are much more adept at producing the former than the latter.
I did, however, expect to see the NX-02 again. So much for Hernandez being another "Captain's old girlfriend that we only see for one episode." I just hope they don't make her too much like the Kirk/Picard maidens-of-the-ep... again, with all the work they've been doing to "improve" or "legitimize" T'Pol, not something I see the writers doing.
I'm so glad that they're pushing the envelope here a little. Trying to explain why the Klingons didn't have bumps on their heads in the TOS time frame is a very far out and I bet difficult concept to tackle. If they avoid enough clichés, it just may be one of the most original storylines the show has produced.
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
-
we'll be seeing Captain Hernandez and the NX-02 on the second Romulan arc episode "United" as stated in startrek.com
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Picard-
“Captains Log. We’re heading toward Federation space at maximum warp. The crew has responded with the dedication I’ve come to expect from them. And like a thousand other commanders on a thousand other battlefields, I wait for the dawn”
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Quote:
we'll be seeing Captain Hernandez and the NX-02 on the second Romulan arc episode "United" as stated in startrek.com
I know, that's what I was referring to.
--------
"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
For those who remember, when the DS9 crew winds up back in time with Kirk and the tribbles Sisko comments on the lack of forehead ridges. Worf's reply is that is something Klingons don't like to talk about. If, as is implied in this article, it is a result of biological testing/manipulation by Klingons on Klingons I can understand why.
Coto's becoming the Larry Flynt of 'continuity-porn'. ;)
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The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
-
Hey, I bet you would tie in as much continuity in your episodes if you were running the show. I know I would. Just look at my essays.
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"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek: The Beginning
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
-
Your essays?
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The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
WOW! Coto is just jumping from one water pot to the next.
Anyone find it strange that this storyiline is approved after the wide acceptance of "The Forge"?
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well, I guess this answers all our questions as to why klingons in TOS have no head ridges.
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Picard-
“Captains Log. We’re heading toward Federation space at maximum warp. The crew has responded with the dedication I’ve come to expect from them. And like a thousand other commanders on a thousand other battlefields, I wait for the dawn”
-
I can follow the logic of showing this continuity-especially after the events of "The Augments" & how they showed the Klingons how genetic engineering made humans stronger,smarter & more warlike than themselves.
There was bound to be Klingon research-albeit clandestine-that would investigate the Human technology in order to improve their own physiology. If this research results in the loss of their ridges, i can buy that for a dollar!
The ultimate failure of this research in Klingon eyes will explain how & why ridgeless Klingons were the cannon-fodder of TOS, & their virtual outcast status within Klingon society.
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