Love the new story arc! It's a nice little "DaVinci Code" take off (a secret society guarding repressed secrets about a revered spiritual leader from 2000 years ago!)
It's been a long time since I read "Spock's World," so I'm a little fuzzy on Vulcan history, but I'm enjoying this story very much.
Ok, so Tripp's outburst about not caring about the security guard's body was unnecessary, but otherwise great work. The DNA-aging thing was interesting too. And Mayweather actually got a couple of lines in the episode.
This episode was all setup and it set it up the next two episodes nicely, you shouldn't dock it just cuz its not a full episode. Besides, it used the katra, something I hadn't even heard mentioned since Star Trek 3. That's good enough in my book
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An elephant never forgets . . .TO KILL!
Wow. I watch what I think to me possibly the best Enterprise ever, and I come to this website...supposedly a pro trek one, and see this review. The Forge had everything you could want. It had repeated TOS references and an interesting story. You could not ask for more Trek minded writers. You could not ask for more TOS like music and style.
I 'm really not trying to be pissy, but I don't see what Coto could do to make Dues and the other Enterprise haters happy. They fix the TCW and...you hate it. They come home to earth and...you hate it. They bring Spiner back and...you dont like the character. They bring back eugenic supermen, and you don't like how they are played. They go to a real TOS alien homeworld and explore it...and again you hate it.
Please give Coto a chance to fix things. He can't do it in one or two episodes. When/if Enterprise dies, Star Trek is going with it for many years. Is this what we really want?
Next week..Dues tells us how much Awakening sucked..
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Don't over generalize. I think much of what has gone before has been crap (or close to it) Berman and Brag haven't an inch of writing talent - but this was muuuuch better. In many ways i consider this the first real Enterprise episode.
This has ramifications all over (even though a lot of younger fans probably missed a lot of it)
For instance, the questions the Vulcan asked Archer in the desert: We've heard them before, in the motion picture "the voyage home" - Spock having lost his memory is being retrained by a Vulcan computer, and it is asking him the same questions. Ie, Spock was a Syranite. Ie, the Vulcan government by Kirks time will be Syranites. How is that for a spin.
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He has always been that way, years ago when Deep Space nine was still in production all he could say about it was practically negative. I quit coming to this site because of people like him. Your right, you would think that this would be a great site for fans to get together. But all too often all you hear is somebody complaing and bitching about something. And O doosh is there Queen so to say. I honestly think he is never happy unless he can point out something negative, guess it will be another 6-7 years before I come back lol..we will see
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So what you are saying is we 'enterprise haters' can't have a different view to you?
Because we aren't easily impressed by a few nods (wow, I bet that took 'em a whole 5 minutes) to past shows and movies, you don't like it.
Because we aren't in rapture because the Temporal Cold War was wrapped-up too quickly for the investment viewers had made in it, you don't like it.
Because we aren't impressed by drab and obvious storylines (you didn't know the those Vulcans were behind the bomb?), you don't like it.
Because we found Spiner to be an old ham, you don't like it.
You, sir or madam, are a facist.
I bet you belong to the group of folks who vote 'Excellent' to every episode in the Trek Web poll.
You probably have all the action figures in your bedroom too.
What you and your ilk cannot stomach is that Enterprise is a childish, badly-made television show.
There is a reason it can't make the top 100 in the ratings....
...because it is *** CRAP ***.
You have some potentially good characters in Hoshi and Phlox, yet week-in and week-out they are ignored. The rest shouldn't have even been cast, because they are *** BORING *** and *** CANNOT ACT ***
Week-after-week we have to suffer STAR TREK: T&A.
(that's Star Trek: T'Pol and Archer for you younger readers)
When I see a good episode, I'll acknowlege it. But there aren't too many of them.
The only reason this show hasn't been cancelled is to sell it to syndication and make *** MONEY *** out of the fans who buy the DVD sets.
Don't dare tell us 'enterprise haters' what we will think of episodes we haven't even seen yet. You probably have made your mind up they are 'excellent', but unlike you, WE CAN THINK FOR OURSELVES.
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First of all..you do not know me. Second, I'm not talking about just Enterprise, I'm talking about Deep space nine when it was first run. Third ..no I do not have any of the enterprise action figures, I have a shit load of DS9 figures, but they are not in my bedroom. 4th...I rated the last episode a 8...as in very good. You sound like a very angry little man ..or woman...and I bet if you were face to face to me you would be as tough as you feel as you are protected behind that keyboard. Why are you so angry that there are a lot of fans who want to go to a place to talk OBJECTIVELY about something that we enjoy? Does that scare you? Look at Steve K..... He objectively talks about things in a civil understanding way. You sound full of hate and anger. Why are you even a fan if you feel that way. What I was saying that is for 7 years, everytime I visit this site there are people like your self who RIP EVERYTHING!!!!!! If there is sooooooooo much you dislike about it why in the hell are you even watching it??? You could watch american Idol or top model instead, now theres a choice that will make you think
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Geeze Naff simma down now! I disagree with you and you call me a facist for disagreeing with you? Talk about pot calling the kettle black! If you don't like the show, fine, more power to you. I am more than happy for you that you have an opinion and a website such as this to express it. Please don't belittle me for expressing mine.
So don't worry Naff, Enterprise will probably get cancelled at the end of the season. Then you can spend the next 10 years watching something other than Star Trek because it won't be around.
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@ Naff,
hm... you don't like Enterprise, you don't like the storylines, you don't like the actors...
That only leaves one question:
Why do you keep watching it???
The show had some interesting bits in it; the beamout from the embassy and the storm were interesting. I can't figure out where T'Pol's character is, her deference to Archer on her own planet suggests she hasn't recovered from the drugs yet.
Unfortunately this show came off as somewhat leaden in the modern trek way, just a bunch of people talking in the dark. Home was better. In light of Blalock's note that her attempt to be in character by not eating with her hands was rebuffed, how can this thing improve?
Who decided that Star Trek had to have characters that barely cry, yell, or laugh? Has Archer even cracked a smile in four years? I don't think so.
I still think this show is like Law and Order in space minus seventy percent of the cynicism. Whether that is good or bad depends on the viewer.
Using TOS to back up Enteprise is risky. It's like contradicting yourself every week. There were some good parts, but I have no idea what Enterprise is about anymore.
Alright, I'm starting to suspect that this backlash against Deus suggests something about the continuity-pornographers of our little community.
For the record, this 'XXX Continuity Porn' (which is what Cotto is seeking to give us) is STILL not an improvement on the cardboard characterizations, larthargic plotting and unremarkable dialouge that has plauged ENT for years.
Excusing the glaring flaws still present in this show (from the acting on up to the writing) just because Cotto is now doing all this "prequel stuff" doesn't make the show any better from a dramatic standpoint.
If you want a 'Cliff's Notes' on Trek history--go read Okuda's encyclopedia; I thought ENT was supposed to be a 'dramatic one hour presentation'...a series, not only about the early days of human exploration, but also a show about seven characters living and working together in space.
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The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
I usually agree with your reviews. And when I don't, I at least understand your points. But here, you've missed it.
This episode was exactly the kind of episode I expected when the series started. It laid the foundation of the Human-Vulcan aliance, while explaining the current distrust between the two species. We learn a little more about the planet Vulcan and some of their geo-political issues. It made a heroic attempt at connecting the dots to answer the continuity questions that the show raised over the last three seasons.
Were there flaws? Yes, and if I'm going to pick nits here they are: The earth embasy looked like a model. After noting the irony of some vulcan laws, the Vulcan stranger in the desert laughed. But overall, this is the prequel I wanted to see. After this arc, bring on the Andorians!
Well...I hated the first 2 seasons of Enterprise. HATED. Last season was much more entertaining...but not really what I wanted Star Trek to be. This season has been perfect, they are telling the kind of stories that I could have told them from the begining that they needed to tell.
This was a perfect episode that kept me interested and excited from the first frame. Loved it. Loved it. Loved it.
O. deus (too aptly named) is again being too hard on Enterprise. He (or she) reminds me too much of the parents of a kid who are angry and disappointed when he brings home only an A minus on an exam or makes second violin in the school orchestra or JV in soccer - unless it it exactly what he is looking for, he is angry and ready to turn his back on the whole enterprise, so to speak. This show is good, and The Forge was really good. There was mystery, adventure, surprise, interesting characters and yes continuity too. Was it Hamlet? No. But it was quite simply better and more intriguing than anything else you could have seen on TV that night. For the younger generation, who aren't as focused on 40 years of continuity and simply want to be excited and introduced to the wonders of good SF, this show is the best thing out there. Apparently, for reasons that elude me, the actors, writers and producers of Enterprise seem to read these notes, and because O.Deus is your lead reviewer, his negative and depressing reviews get the most attnetion. He is killing something wonderful. Look at the audience votes and you will see a truer picture of what people think - Enterprise is (most of the time, and especially under Manny Coto) excellent TV. Because of the nature of SF, requiring invention and surprise and novelty, it isn't as easy to create a top-notch show week after week - you can't rely on stock jokes and stock situations. Enterprise does a good job of exciting and entertaining. Please let it thrive by letting it be what it is - good SF - and condemning it for what it is not, some impossible ideal combination of theatre/literature. Be a little forgiving and appreciate what you have.
Sorry but I happen to think Deus is right in his reviews. That's not to say the shows aren't watchable. But when Jolene Blalock & John Billingsley openly disagree with the direction of the show & it's characters, it reveals there's trouble in paradise. Both actors have problems with the way the Vulcan's are portrayed, including the failure of the Trip/T'Pol love angle & the overall recycling of storylines among other things.
We're all Trek fans here after all but some of us understand that in an industry where ratings=money & money=survival, that Star Trek is fighting for it's very life. Changes must be brought in before it's too late. Remember that Gene Roddenberry was around to push for Star Trek's revival in the 80's but if the plug were pulled now we may lose it for good. No one will be there to revive it in 10 yrs time & 3 million fans cannot keep a franchise afloat forever. Ratings must rise, the whole franchise depends on it.
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Do pay attention will you, they had problems with the way the vulcans were portraied BEFORE Coto started, all things in print were before he started to explain why they haven't been anything like what they should be.
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I've come to the conclusion that O Deus rights his reviews with one question in mind, what will get the biggest reaction from my readers? What other purpose could he have for writing the same reviews every week? He clearly enjoys watching everyone react to what he writes. If he truly hates the show, than what is the point in him continuing to watch it every week? Personally if I hated something as much as Deus does, I certainly wouldn't spend an hour a week watching it.
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"You did what you had to do. What you've always done. Turned death into a fighting chance"
Leonard McCoy ST:III
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I've come to the conclusion that O Deus rights his reviews with one question in mind, what will get the biggest reaction from my readers? What other purpose could he have for writing the same reviews every week? He clearly enjoys watching everyone react to what he writes. If he truly hates the show, than what is the point in him continuing to watch it every week? Personally if I hated something as much as Deus does, I certainly wouldn't spend an hour a week watching it.
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"You did what you had to do. What you've always done. Turned death into a fighting chance"
Leonard McCoy ST:III
Quote:
Of course the entire premise that such events had occurred in recent memory fly in the face of all of STAR TREK, as we know continuity and ENTERPRISE even in the best of situations go together about as well as oil and water
This comment is completely uncalled for. While Enterprise has certainly had some continuity problems before, I don't see how the events of this episode breach continuity. Actually, it appeared to me that one of the primary reasons for this trilogy was to set continuity back on track after all of the questionable decisions with the Vulcans over the past three years.
Just because we haven't heard of an event doesn't mean it didn't happen. If we assume otherwise, then Enterprise has little choice but to be irrelevant and deadly dull.
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"You know what six movies average out to be really good? The first six Star Trek movies!" -- Fry, Futurama
I seriously cant take many more episodes of Enterprise. This episode was so friggin boring. I think the only reason I keep watching is that I have seen every episode thus far. I keep hoping it will somehow get better. This show is barely science fiction. Its more like a cheesy action show in space. If T'pol wasnt so goddamn hot I dont know if I would still be watching...
I am convinced that the same people who love this episode are the people who love TOS.
I love what Enterprise is becoming because it is looking more and more like TOS. It has been truer to the spirit of The Original Series this season than all seven seasons of Voyager ever were. Enterprise is loved by the real Star Trek fans, the original fans, the fans of The Original Series.
I certainly wouldn't waste my time griping about special effects. Since when has Star Trek really been about special effects. Have we fogotten The Original Series completely. I don't know why people spend so much time complaining about it. I look forward to the continuing improvement of storylines this year. "The Forge" was wonderful, and I look forward to the rest of the series.
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"What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived."
~Picard
Watching the episode twice was more entertaining than the o.deus review. I liked this episode because:
a. the character actors didn't steal the show. They acted their parts and told the story.
b. the special effects told the story. I agree they were not the same quality as a feature length movie budget allows, but hey, it's a TV episode, not a feature movie. And finally,
c. I wanted more when the episode was over. I'll be there, tape recorder ready, next Friday.
My only complaint... the entire episode was only 40:30 long. Ugh. Far too many commercials that distract viewer interest. In my daydreams, I'd argue with UPN the idea of expanding each episode to 48 minutes and increasing the cost per 20 or 30 second commercial spot to more than compensate and then, (this is critical) market ENTERPRISE as a "low commercial zone", much like American Express did for the Bourne Identity.
The truth is, I like ENTERPRISE enough to sit with the family and we watch it together. Between the 3-4 episode story arc, the positive image for humanity, and the reduced commercials, I believe ENTERPRISE would stand a fighting chance in any time slot. I'll check back latter to see what the cynics have to say....
Long days and pleasant nights.
Right on review by Dues.
After two terrific episodes; we were subjected to a boring, dragging and lack-lustered enterprise episode as usual. Except seeing them kill off(uselessly) Admiral Forrester, I found nothing in the episode to talk home about. Just one more hour of enterprise gone by. No wonder the ratings dipped. Hopefully, next week Awakening would be much, much more intresting.
We(fans) can only pray for a Season 5....
I would have to say this episode of trek is at least going somewhere. True , Enterprise poses some continuity problems, but it is only a story and any problems can be easily dealt with. However, this story dealing with political and social change on Vulcan is not out of continuity with TOS or any other Trek that has been written. It must be looked at as part of a whole story that we simply haven't been told. Vulcans have emotions, surpressed, but there. Even Mark Leonard plays an emotional vulcan, his logic was "uncertain" where his son was concerned. So Enterprises so called emotional Vulcans or misguided Vulcan charecteristics doesn't really surprise me. Any questions?
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"One must have faith that the universe will unfold as it should" Spock ST:TUC
Is there nothing out there (besides DS9) that can please this guy? C'mon dude WTF? The Forge is for the most part universally (except Deus) tauted as the best Enterprise episode ever. Other than this review have not seen a real bad attack on this episode even at StarTrek.com. I have to point out one thing, Deus says that this feels like the set up for an episode, of course it is, it is a three parter you are not supposed to tell the entire story in one episode WTF would be the point of a three parter then. C'mon this is 9.5/10 episode i don't give it a ten simply because nothing is absolutly perfect. So c'mon Deus lighten up a little bit and let yourself enjoy the episode alittle more.
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Forcast for today: a few sprinkles of genius with A CHANCE OF DOOM!!!!
Stewie Griffin
Well reviewed.
With rubber rocks and a equally rubber lead actor, things are not looking good.
Again, Archer is center-stage - and the character is just not up to it.
This week we exchange Star Trek 2 nuances for Trek 3 and 4. Its going to take more than that.
This show has no sense of excitement or humor - oh, how well DS9 was done, my friends.
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