Well I find Deus's 'critical' review somewhat interesting.... I usually like the episodes he hammers but reading his criticism is still interesting and makes you think maybe some aspects of the episode could have been done better. After all, it would be boring if we all agreed.
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Yes I am Australian...AND NO I DO NOT OWN A KANGAROO! And it's typical that we were made the last ones to join the federation....
The episode didn't feel like an event episode. Except having spiner act like the evil data brother Lore bought old TNG days memory..i found the episode standard mill-of-fare stuff. No wonder they just got a small blip on the ratings radar not the spike they were hoping off.
Well..next week CS12 looks better atleast in the promo. Lets hope it really is good and makes up for borderland
I must say I generally disagree with the review. (I'm late - I just watched it tonight via Tivo).
This was pretty much a nice re-launch of the show, right down to them..... well, launching again. (The ship, I mean.)
Wasn't that Hetzler playing the Klingon commander at the opening? I forgot to check the credits.
Yes, the young 'augments' did look like an old Ratt video - and the dialogue among them was a bit boring, predictable and silly. However, it could have been worse. Think Khan in ST II, deliciously employing Shakespeare at many a turn. Then think ST VI and Kang, spewing the Bard like a malfunctioning lawn sprinkler. If they had uttered one single Shakespeare phrase, I might have gagged. So they quote Nietzsche instead....... eh. Ok. I give up. They were kinda corny.
But everything else was quite a bit of fun. There was light comedy and lots of action and it was fun. Something that I have to admit has been missing from Trek for a while.
And the wrestler guy - Big Show - didn't know who he was til I read here. I liked that guy. He was neat.
But hey, Ted Cassidy was on TOS once. And everybody knew him as Lurch by that time.
Perhaps a by-product of genetic engineering is hammy acting. Khan Noonian Singh certainly left that impression. Who better from the TNG era to pick up the gauntlet of Ham than Spiner.
Last disassociative thought and I'll wrap it up - have you ever noticed that Spiner's most non-Spiner character is Data? Every other time I've seen him play someone else on Trek - he comes across like, well, like Soong here.
Maybe the guy is just naturally creepy.
:)
All in all, a fun episode. The show has a different feel. And as for the T'pol - Tucker thing, well they just can't DROP it now can they? I mean, if they did, ya'll would be bitching that they did so (Yet another forgotten plot thread! etc)
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Quote:
Wasn't that Hetzler playing the Klingon commander at the opening? I forgot to check the credits.
Yep, that was Martok.
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"You know what six movies average out to be really good? The first six Star Trek movies!" -- Fry, Futurama
The arguing between reviewers and readers will never stop. From a readers perspective, it feels unfair that reviewers get more than average attention when they layout their personal opinion. From the reviewers perspective, their extra efforts to flesh out their thoughts are dismissed by the readers.
O. Deus is the official, regular reviewer on Trekweb and that makes his opinion carry more weight, simply because more people will notice it. It also makes him represent this community, much to the dissatisfaction of those people who disagree with him.
I think we are also easily angered because Star Trek is currently in a weak position and could easily fall. We don't want this to happen (at least I don't). We love ENT and we are sensitive to those who spread a negative opinion about our beloved show. Yes, opinions do "spread", otherwise there would be no point in talking about them.
Moreover, sometimes people attack O. Deus (and others) because he displays his opinion as if "this is THE truth" rather than "this is MY opinion".
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O. Deus is the official, regular reviewer on Trekweb and that makes his opinion carry more weight, simply because more people will notice it. It also makes him represent this community, much to the dissatisfaction of those people who disagree with him.
I have to agree with you, in my opinion this was the first episode in three years that felt like a "Star Trek episode and incorporated a feel from TOS and STNG. This is just what has been missing from Ent. from the start.
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Quote from Hbasm:
I think we are also easily angered because Star Trek is currently in a weak position and could easily fall. We don't want this to happen (at least I don't). We love ENT and we are sensitive to those who spread a negative opinion about our beloved show.
Star Trek shall survive, as it has for decades -- it's ENT that has brought itself to the brink of failure.
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Alien vs Predator Action Figures
Although I very much enjoyed the episode, Deus makes some valid points. Also, the episode has a few plot holes, like the following exchange (paraphrased, not quoted):
Archer: They never revealed that he had stolen embryos.
Mayweather: That's right, I remember seeing that on the news! They never did find out what happened to those embryos...
Huh? Did they reveal it or didn't they?
I do strongly object to the following:
Quote:
STAR TREK has a repeated and inescapable history of mishandling romances between characters and even under the best of circumstances such romances appear unprofessional and tend to undermine the female character; with the single exception of Troi, who couldn't possibly be undermined any further.
Come on, Deus! You can't really mean to imply that Kira was undermined by her romance with Odo! The Kira-Odo romance may be the best romance I've seen on TV (and, IMHO, one of the most realistic), and both characters benefited from it immeasurably. Although I'm not as much of a fan of Dax/Worf, I think it was also handled very well. Actually, Riker/Troi wasn't all that bad either... Now Worf/Troi, that's another story entirely...
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"You know what six movies average out to be really good? The first six Star Trek movies!" -- Fry, Futurama
No, I didn’t miss your point, but at the end of the day if O.Deus gave every episode a high rating (or higher than normal) then an equal quantity of folk who doesn’t like ENT as much would also complain.
What does it matter that O.Deus might not be the biggest of fans of ENT? So what, if you liked it then fair enough. If not, then the same applies. A single review of an episode from a single critic doesn’t shape the face of the entertainment world. It is simply one person's opinion.
Let’s face it, if TrekWeb had somebody bias and in total love with ENT and all of its episodes, then we'd all be bored :)
I have to say that ‘Borderland’ was an enjoyable episode. Not amazing but very good. I agree with the person below who suggested that Enterprise would not be in their present ratings struggle had season 1 or 2 started off with this type of writing/story quality. It is as CLEAR AS DAY that B&B are not behind this story and for that, I am relieved and thankful. A few talking points – I thought that;
- The Big Show ‘Paul White’ was great. For those of you that had a problem with him on this episode, what did you want the guy to act like? This man has a huge presence and it was portrayed well in this episode. He also contributed to the excellent fighting choreography in this episode, which was probably the best physical fighting sequences I’ve seen on a Star Trek episode since DS9.
- Bakula’s portrayal of Archer is the best I’ve seen yet in these past two episodes. He’s conflicted and a bit put off by his current missions, as if they are not what he originally signed up for. When the Orions begin attacking his ship, the look on his face is that of anger and annoyance. “What ever happened to those missions of exploration I was promised” is what the look conveys. Again, well done.
- After three seasons, I just don’t know what to make of T’Pols character and her role on the show. Would the Enterprise crew be better off with or without her? I’m not sure. She seems to always be too busy fighting her inner demons to contribute anything to her crew. She always seems conflicted with herself which is unsettling for me to constantly watch. Nothing like Spock, who was confident in conveying his logic AND portraying his emotions in an intriguing manner. T’Pol on the other hand, holds in her emotions like most of us hold in a bowel movement.
But the Orion guard that T'Pol kicks in the nads was the WWE wrestler The Big Show, a.k.a. Paul Wight.
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The Human Adventure Begins Again....
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the question before you today is a simple one. Besides pointing to traditional fossil forms, or DNA polymorphism, or tonsils, or domesticated animals, or gene sequences, or male nipples, or common sense, how does one prove evolution?" -- Harvey Birdman
I can't say I'm shocked by O. Deus's review. Last week I posted something along the lines of this: O. Deus is a critic who feels his job is to CRITICise. Unfortunately he has lost all sense of objectivity. Rather, he enjoys causing controversy by panning good episodes (yes, he panned this) and praising shitty ones (Two Days in Sickbay??)
I'm stunned that O. Deus is still writing reviews for TrekWeb. I'm not saying he should be canned because he doesn't like ENT --- I'm just saying he should be an objective reviewer. He's not. HOME and BORDERLAND both received near universal praise from the fans. Deus pans both. How is it that this guy has this job? Are you getting paid, Deus? Are you hoping to parlay this into another job with a more legitimate magazine/newspaper? If so, it might explain a few things. It might make sense that you have ulterior motives to write more controversial reviews.
Here are some points:
THE GOOD
1. Brent Spiner. His character was wholly new to the franchise and offers so much. His acting was fantastic. He stole the show. As one reviewer put it (IGN?), the cascade of emotions over his face when Archer reveals the existence of the Augments was incredible. Spiner's got "It". He knows how to act in Trek and create a believable character. O. Deus looks at him and thinks he's hamming it up or something. That's ridiculous. Spiner is the best guest actor they've had on the show, period (Degra would be second best). Soong is motivated by desires that others feel criminal. He thinks he's doing something in the best interests of humanity. Spiner played that out beautifully and the writers played no small part in that, I'm sure. The scene between Spiner and Phloxx --- amazing. You can just *feel* the shock Soong feels when Phloxx disagrees with his work. Also the scene where Spiner is looking at the Orion girl. He gives her a little nod --- you can *see* what he's thinking! Great work.
2. The story. Great. Simply great. It set the basic foundation for a great 3 part episode. This was Act One. O. Deus looks at it and says it was bad. Get real, Deus. We're one third into an arc here and you're judging it based on its ability to stand alone or something. How about this: View all three episodes AND THEN write your reveiw.
3. The action. Great. Not too much and it didn't overwhelm the story.
4. Archer. Great. Bakula's discovered the best way to play the captain. A commanding presence, very sure of himself and conflicted by what he's done in the past.
5. The Augments. Very Kahn-esque. They followed the "formula" that Spock explained in Space Seed. Infighting and arguing. Power hungry. They were perfect. I really enjoyed the scenes with them, because it was something we've been asking about for a LONG time - even Steve Krutzler has! - and that's for scenes that don't feature the ENT cast! We can see stuff that happens off ship. We need to see that stuff. THat's something B&B NEVER did. Now COTO's doing it, and you're complaining! Listen guys, these scenes furthered the story and created believable, flawed characters.
6. The Augment from DUNE (Forgot his name). He was just amazing. He played the character so well. If I hadn't known he was in DUNE, I never would have guessed. His accent, his acting -- totally original.
THE BAD
1. The Orion Ships just appeared (TWICE!) without sensors showing them! All of a sudden Enterprise starts taking fire. WTF?
2. BIG SHOW. Terrible.
3. The scene where Big Show holds T'Pol up to display her.
4. What's with the bags under T'Pol's eyes? I read a story recently about a bizarre appearance on a late night talk show. It suggested she was into drugs. Is there any credence to this? I think she's a good actress and a good character -- I hope the Vulcan arc can clear up some inconsistencies. Whatever's going on, I hope Blalock is well.
Anyway, that's it for my thoughts.
O. Deus has done what he set out to --- he wrote a CRITIQUE that others objected to. He got people talking. He inspired my long post. However, if that's all you're going to do, it's flawed journalism. If you're going to criticise every show, why write reviews?? I'm not asking you to like something you don't like, but if you don't like ENT why are you even writing reviews for it? This was one of the best episodes in four years (along with Home) and you criticised both. We as fans are finally getting what we asked for, and you (and Steve) post these reviews that practically no one agrees with! If the majority of people said, "Yeah, this show sucked" then I wouldn't say this about you, Deus. However, both HOME and BORDERLAND were almost universally praised by fans.
I agree that we're both allowed to have our opinions, but why is someone as biased as yourself (yes - BIASED because you are taking the role of the CRITIC and trying to create dissention and discussion) writing reviews for Trekweb??? How about you write an objective review about an episode from a FAN'S point of view? Isn't that what a REVIEWER should be doing?
I guess the question should be --- Should Steve have someone REVIEW each episode or CRITIQUE it?
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-sigh-
I've given episodes positive or negative reviews depending on whether they merited it and each time I go into detailed arguments as to why they merit it. Namely whether or not the episode worked and if it didn't then why. Which is what I do.
You can argue with the points I've made but when people don't bother taking up any of those points but just attack me because they feel the review is too negative or it's not in line with what most fans of critics think, then frankly I have no response and don't think it deserves one.
2. The story. Great. Simply great. It set the basic foundation for a great 3 part episode. This was Act One. O. Deus looks at it and says it was bad. Get real, Deus. We're one third into an arc here and you're judging it based on its ability to stand alone or something. How about this: View all three episodes AND THEN write your reveiw.
I've reviewed this particular episode, at the end I made the point quite specifically that the continuing episodes might improve...but are you really asking me to review this episode three weeks later?
-sigh-
However, if that's all you're going to do, it's flawed journalism. If you're going to criticise every show, why write reviews??
Again I don't condemn every single show. Go look at the review archive.
This was one of the best episodes in four years (along with Home) and you criticised both. We as fans are finally getting what we asked for, and you (and Steve) post these reviews that practically no one agrees with!
that is....your opinion. You are free to argue it and back it up. Demanding that I accept your opinion as the only legitimate one because some supposed majority of fans that you speak on behalf of holds it, is ridiculous.
Just about every Enterprise episode ever aired got positive poll ratings. By that logic I could never criticise any episode at all.
I agree that we're both allowed to have our opinions, but why is someone as biased as yourself (yes - BIASED because you are taking the role of the CRITIC and trying to create dissention and discussion) writing reviews for Trekweb??? How about you write an objective review about an episode from a FAN'S point of view? Isn't that what a REVIEWER should be doing?
My reviews are objective and I've been a fan of Star Trek far longer than you have. I'm not trying to create dissension, I'm trying to talk about what the episode did right or wrong. If you only want to hear praise of an episode or reviews of an episode in compliance with what most fans think, you don't want to read reviews, you want to read fanboy gushing.
You keep attacking me over my lack of objectivity when really you're demanding that I stop being objective.
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Quote:
I can't say I'm shocked by O. Deus's review. Last week I posted something along the lines of this: O. Deus is a critic who feels his job is to CRITICise. Unfortunately he has lost all sense of objectivity. Rather, he enjoys causing controversy by panning good episodes (yes, he panned this) and praising shitty ones (Two Days in Sickbay??)
I'm stunned that O. Deus is still writing reviews for TrekWeb. I'm not saying he should be canned because he doesn't like ENT --- I'm just saying he should be an objective reviewer. He's not. HOME and BORDERLAND both received near universal praise from the fans. Deus pans both. How is it that this guy has this job? Are you getting paid, Deus? Are you hoping to parlay this into another job with a more legitimate magazine/newspaper? If so, it might explain a few things. It might make sense that you have ulterior motives to write more controversial reviews.
Here are some points:
THE GOOD
1. Brent Spiner. His character was wholly new to the franchise and offers so much. His acting was fantastic. He stole the show. As one reviewer put it (IGN?), the cascade of emotions over his face when Archer reveals the existence of the Augments was incredible. Spiner's got "It". He knows how to act in Trek and create a believable character. O. Deus looks at him and thinks he's hamming it up or something. That's ridiculous. Spiner is the best guest actor they've had on the show, period (Degra would be second best). Soong is motivated by desires that others feel criminal. He thinks he's doing something in the best interests of humanity. Spiner played that out beautifully and the writers played no small part in that, I'm sure. The scene between Spiner and Phloxx --- amazing. You can just *feel* the shock Soong feels when Phloxx disagrees with his work. Also the scene where Spiner is looking at the Orion girl. He gives her a little nod --- you can *see* what he's thinking! Great work.
2. The story. Great. Simply great. It set the basic foundation for a great 3 part episode. This was Act One. O. Deus looks at it and says it was bad. Get real, Deus. We're one third into an arc here and you're judging it based on its ability to stand alone or something. How about this: View all three episodes AND THEN write your reveiw.
3. The action. Great. Not too much and it didn't overwhelm the story.
4. Archer. Great. Bakula's discovered the best way to play the captain. A commanding presence, very sure of himself and conflicted by what he's done in the past.
5. The Augments. Very Kahn-esque. They followed the "formula" that Spock explained in Space Seed. Infighting and arguing. Power hungry. They were perfect. I really enjoyed the scenes with them, because it was something we've been asking about for a LONG time - even Steve Krutzler has! - and that's for scenes that don't feature the ENT cast! We can see stuff that happens off ship. We need to see that stuff. THat's something B&B NEVER did. Now COTO's doing it, and you're complaining! Listen guys, these scenes furthered the story and created believable, flawed characters.
6. The Augment from DUNE (Forgot his name). He was just amazing. He played the character so well. If I hadn't known he was in DUNE, I never would have guessed. His accent, his acting -- totally original.
THE BAD
1. The Orion Ships just appeared (TWICE!) without sensors showing them! All of a sudden Enterprise starts taking fire. WTF?
2. BIG SHOW. Terrible.
3. The scene where Big Show holds T'Pol up to display her.
4. What's with the bags under T'Pol's eyes? I read a story recently about a bizarre appearance on a late night talk show. It suggested she was into drugs. Is there any credence to this? I think she's a good actress and a good character -- I hope the Vulcan arc can clear up some inconsistencies. Whatever's going on, I hope Blalock is well.
Anyway, that's it for my thoughts.
O. Deus has done what he set out to --- he wrote a CRITIQUE that others objected to. He got people talking. He inspired my long post. However, if that's all you're going to do, it's flawed journalism. If you're going to criticise every show, why write reviews?? I'm not asking you to like something you don't like, but if you don't like ENT why are you even writing reviews for it? This was one of the best episodes in four years (along with Home) and you criticised both. We as fans are finally getting what we asked for, and you (and Steve) post these reviews that practically no one agrees with! If the majority of people said, "Yeah, this show sucked" then I wouldn't say this about you, Deus. However, both HOME and BORDERLAND were almost universally praised by fans.
I agree that we're both allowed to have our opinions, but why is someone as biased as yourself (yes - BIASED because you are taking the role of the CRITIC and trying to create dissention and discussion) writing reviews for Trekweb??? How about you write an objective review about an episode from a FAN'S point of view? Isn't that what a REVIEWER should be doing?
I guess the question should be --- Should Steve have someone REVIEW each episode or CRITIQUE it?
Okay, I think your comments are very unjust. A critic differs not from somebody like yourself, a fan, a general viewer, whatever. O. Deus has written a review based on HIS thoughts and HIS feelings. You cannot expect him to write a review just to conform to how you feel or somebody else feels. That would be impossible as every person has a unique interpretation to what they have seen. True, if an episode received positive praise in unison, that would generally make a review such as this controversial because it differs from the majority. But I would encourage you to try and do what you have told O.Deus to do, and write a review that will run in the same vein of everybody who reads it...it is impossible. As a critic myself (DVD Answers.com) I understand that one has to write a review of my own opinion. I will not write a review of a film I hate that stands up and says "I will be compatible to everybody's thoughts". I cannot do it, nor would I try. I write about that which I have seen from my own perspective, no other.
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Right. No one's suggesting that Deus can't let his honest feelings be know...but the question is...why are HIS feelings turned into the officical TrekWeb review??? If someone's out of step with the site, perhaps a new official reviewer should be chosen. No one is born with the RIGHT to be the official reviewer. This is all for entertainment anyway. It's just that when I, for one, read a review that reflects about 10% of the webboard (or less, if you look at the snap poll ratings, where about 65% of the fans rated this a 9 or 10), I start feeling like Steve should consider someone else for the job.
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Click here to check out my band, ego tree , and the Ego Tree site at myspace. Listen to/buy the CD for $9.99! ALSO AVAILABLE ON iTUNES!!
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I understand what you're saying, but you missed my point.
O. Deus's reviews are ALWAYS negative. Even when he has some faint bits of praise, it's overshadowed by his negative comments. He rarely mentions positive aspects.
Why do the same thing week after week? He either clearly doesn't like the show, or he is criticising it to get a response.
Timmer33
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What you might see if you picked yourself up and to the review archive...for just a lot of the closing episodes of last season. But of course you'd rather keep whining because I didn't give a positive review to an episode you liked
Countdown - "Countdown" explodes into a top notch episode that resurrects forgotten characters
http://trekweb.com/stories.php?aid=40ae097d4f644
"The Council" Delivers Thrilling Suspense and Depth in a Compelling Episode
http://trekweb.com/stories.php?aid=40a4a6c29d943
"The Forgotten" Should be Anything But, Says Deus of Strong Episode
http://trekweb.com/stories.php?aid=409279d73edc0
"Damage" Offers Compelling Choice, Suffers Weak Subplots Says Deus
http://trekweb.com/stories.php?aid=40887e5087719
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I read your reviews every week, O. Deus. Even for eps that you like, there is a predominence of criticism -- far more negative comments than positive comments.
I'll say that again. I've read the eps that you reviewed positively. For each one, you can't help but nitpick little details, and you gloss over the positive.
Face it, it's your job. You're not objective, you're biased toward the negative.
I'm not asking you to like every episode. I'm just asking you to be objective. Someone said above, your reviews represent 10% of people's opinions on this episode. And still, for some reason, you have a major voice on this site regarding the quality of the episode. Why?
You gave Borderland a 5 out of 10. Give me a break. It's been hailed as the best episode of the SERIES by many major news outlets.
There's no point debating this, because clearly you see your job as one to criticise. You've always done it, even for eps that received positive grades.
Note my review above. I listed positive and negative items. I looked at the ep objectively.
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The fact of the matter is I've given plenty of good reviews, they're just not the kind of reviews you're happy with for one reason or another. I've enthusiastically praised episodes. I've been negative towards others.
You don't like my reviews but that's not my problem. I do my best to exhaustively explore why an episode succeeds or fails. You're not obligated to agree with me, but arguing that my reviews are invalid or biased because they disagree with that of 'Major News Outlets' is plain silly
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Quote from O. Deus to timmer33:
I've enthusiastically praised episodes. I've been negative towards others.
Don't run around trying to justify yourself. Accept no quotas. If someone can't address your specific critique points, rather than whine about your overall review style, then they're just looking to manipulate you. If TrekWeb Admin is satisfied with your work, then you're successfully doing your "job."
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NX-01 Model Kit
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that's because enterprise DOES SUCK!!! i mean take OD's last statement about the logicistics of the klingons not finding out if it's humans or not. plus he's right there ain't no impending danger. it's a bit silly. on top of that it's pretty predictable. we know that somehow the supermen will think less of their father and the father will be in conflict with his 'creations'. shallow shallow shallow. ent DOES suck, no wonder it continues to gather negative reviews.
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LET THEM DIE!!!
People look at matters from all kinds of perspectives. Each of us have our own perspective (thankfully). In any situation, some will have a problem. This is just something we have to accept.
The important thing for ENTERPRISE is not to impress each and everyone, but to impress the majority of those watching the show. I think "Borderland" does that. It fulfills our expectations for Manny Cotos work because most people are pleased. I say this based on the feelings around here. If you can impress Trekweb'bers you can impress anyone! So don't let a review from one person, spoil your positivism about ENTERPRISE.
Yeah, I liked "Borderland" too and I think the nature of 3-part arcs will help the show immensely.
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Quote from Hbasm:
The important thing for ENTERPRISE is not to impress each and everyone, but to impress the majority of those watching the show.
The important thing for ENT is survival. Impressing even 100% of a small and deficit-financed audience is just living on borrowed time.
Borderland was supposed to be a heavy hitter in the ratings; not only does it flaunt TOS material, it's the first "big-name actor" stunt casting episode. It was hoped that Brent Spiner would attract some of the many millions of TNG fans that Berman acknowledges are not tuning in to ENT. To that end, it's a spectacular failure. Think about it: Brent Spiner, Orion slave girls, and Khan's Eugenics Wars kinfolk -- combined -- have drawn only a few hundred thousand more viewers than the godforsaken Nazi episodes, an increase that's barely larger than the Nielsen's margin of error.
Borderland could hardly load more bait onto its hook, yet millions upon millions of disenchanted Star Trek fans have refused to bite.
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NX-01 Model Kit
Spot on review.
Also, what I can't forgive is the writers letting Soong demean characters like Trip and Phlox, just beacause we have a big guest 'star' delivering the lines.
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How did soong 'demean' Trip and Phlox? The only scene between him and Phlox was the sickbay scene, and not only was there *nothing* demeaning in it, it was one of the best in the ep. As for the slavery comment, if thats what you mean by demeaning Trip, do you expect all your villains to be PC? Or just the ones on ST?
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Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.
(I think some people in togas are plotting against me.)
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I suggest you watch the show more carefully, rather than be seduced by corny nods and winks to Classic Trek. It also takes more than a wrestler painted to look like Shrek to impress me.
So wise guy, why don't you check out the scene by the transporter for the Phlox slight.
It may have been the same scene (or not - I didn't keep this episode on TiVo for obvious reasons) but he flipped-off Trip over his relationship with T'Pol around that time.
Demeaning the regular characters without a chance for them to respond just shows you what respect the producers of this show have for the current cast. Phlox and Trip, and maybe Hoshi (if they would give her a chance) are the only people worth watching on this insipid mess of a show.
I can't even remember a slavery comment, but I'll take your word for it. It's not what I meant anyhow. And if I did, I expect my villians to be credible, not way over-the-top hams.
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I have now watched the transporter scene several times and I can't find any insult to Phlox. Soong only even looked at him once the entire scene. The comment I guess you're referring to about Trip would be:
Soong: You probably blame me for what happened to your Vulcan..... Friend.
Is that correct?
I don't see how that is the writers demeaning him either. This is exactly the kind of thing of villain is supposed to say, which may show a momentary creativity lapse, but not a lack of respect for the characters. As for having a chance to respond, Archer immediately cut Soong off and shut him up, just as you would expect a captain to do.
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Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.
(I think some people in togas are plotting against me.)
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Quote:
And if I did, I expect my villians to be credible, not way over-the-top hams.
Khan was hardly not-over-the-top.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
I mean really, come on. I had to quit reading it after the first few paragraphs.
Saying Spiner lacked anything in this episode is revealing in and of itself of the reviewer. Calling the Augments anything in comparison to an 80s music video is ridiculous. Where do I stop?
Has Deus been replaced by Scorned? It sure seems like it, because this review makes simplistic attacks on Borderland in a way that conveys Deus' sensationalistic and superficial grasp of the content in the episode, and show as well.
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Actually, from his posts in the 602 Club forums, Scorned LIKED this episode.
WTF?
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"If any one of you question my Chinese or American heritage as a negative, I will have your f**king head." - O Ren Shi Ii "KILL BILL Vol 1"
I think I might have been less disappointed with Borderland because I wasn't expecting that much. For example, I thought from the script pages that Archer was going to try and buy back all of the crew, which made made my respect for the character go negative. Watching the episode it became clear that they only bought one, and used a technobabble excuse to get the others.
Of course, the crew later returned to their usual level of stupidity by giving Snidely Augment full run of the ship.
I think I'll probably wait for the Vulcan Arc to try and tune-in one last time. From the script pages, the Surak flashbacks seem pretty interesting, though I may have jumped to conclusions again. :-/
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The supervisor is Verizon!
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Quote from Meglo:
I think I'll probably wait for the Vulcan Arc to try and tune-in one last time.
Coto's take on Lawrence of Arabia will pass -- exploited T'Pol of Labia shall remain.
I wager 50,000 quatloos that the Velour-Vulcan-cum-Commander-Coochy-Coochy will persist after the Vulcan arc is over and done with its civil-war stunt for a ratings grab. ;-)
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shakes head
We're all entitled to our opinions, Deus, but....wow. I couldn't possibly disagree more. I found Spiner's performance surprisingly restrained. I thought he was going to chew scenery all over the place and was pleasantly surprised when he didn't. He added some much needed energy.
Also, Trip and T'Pol's scene lasted all of 30 seconds. It hardly dominated the action. I think your overreaction to them as a couple is really coloring your perception. It was 30 seconds. Just 30 seconds.
Quote from O. Deus:
Enterprise is pursuing the Augments mainly because of who they are genetically, which is a racist outlook and not particularly rational since they had actually done nothing to Earth
The Augments are a product of Earth's Eugenics Wars, and they now continue their inborn (eugenic) "purpose" by arbitrarily committing murder against a neighboring species. They're something of a sentient virus -- a potential weapon of mass destruction -- that needs cleaning up. Let loose upon the quadrant, by way of a criminal act from an Earth citizen, it behooves Starfleet to capture them, if only as part of whatever legal case they have against Arik Soong (e.g. recovering stolen and hazardous property.)
Overall, an entertaining revue, O. Deus. (BTW, I recommend that you give meditation to the benefit and ease of utilizing the comma.)
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I enjoyed it, but thought it had some problems.
The whole Orion bit, even if it was more interesting than the Augments and Spiner, just seemed completely contrived. Archer had Soong on board to help deal with the augments problem. When his ship was attacked by Orions and crewmembers kidnapped, he had no logical reason to go straight to Soong asking what would happen to them - why should Soong have any special knowledge on his seemingly-unrelated-to-the-problem-at-hand attackers? It also seemed a stretch that he would trust Soong at his side on the planet's surface.
The whole diversion just seemed unneccessary from a storytelling POV - it didn't serve to allow Soong to escape, it didn't further the Augments story in any way, shape or form. It was really cool to see the Orions, but it didn't have anything to do with the story at hand. They did tie it in by explaining that Soong took them to that region because he knew the Orions would attack, but it still seems a little weak. They should have tightened up the augments story to two episodes and given us a full-blown Orion story later.
The hair thing was fine, but it doesn't really make sense that they would have the same hairstyle and Kahn and co. since they are living in a different time, under a different culture and different circumstances. Are they genetically bred to produce a limited range of hairstyle choices?
That having been said, this was a definite improvement. If Ent had been like this from the beginning, it wouldn't be in danger of cancellation. It still wouldn't be a show destined to go down in the annals of TV history like TOS and TNG, but it would be an entertaining, passable Trek sequel. It was nice to see an episode that made it seem like TPTB actually knew a little something about Trek, and cared about it, to boot.
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"Now the Senate is looking for moderate judges, mainstream judges. What in the world is a moderate interpretation of a constitutional text? Halfway between what it says and what we'd like it to say?" - Justice Scalia
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The whole diversion just seemed unneccessary from a storytelling POV - it didn't serve to allow Soong to escape, it didn't further the Augments story in any way, shape or form. It was really cool to see the Orions, but it didn't have anything to do with the story at hand.
They did tie it in by explaining that Soong took them to that region because he knew the Orions would attack, but it still seems a little weak. They should have tightened up the augments story to two episodes and given us a full-blown Orion story later.
First - going there wasn't random and had nothing to do with Soong in that case. According to Star Fleet, the Augments had captured the Klingon ship in the Borderland, which is why they went there in the first place to see if they were still in the area.
Second - when Archer is briefing the staff, he makes this note to the crew:
Archer: "There's also the fact that he spent time in the Borderland."
Hoshi: "The Borderland?"
Reed: "That's the area where he Klingon ship was attacked."
T'Pol: "it's a volatile region between the Klingon Empire and the Orion Syndicate. It attracts the most dangerous elements from both."
Hoshi: "Sorry I asked."
So this establishes that Soong had spent time there and would be familiar with the area and would be the one to go to, to determine where his crew might be. And in fact, he was correct and they did find the crew.
What is interesting here is that after Soong zaps Archer with a taser, he says "I hope you find your people. Thanks for the ride". To me, it was a humorous quip but also an attempt at a character development point. Ie., just as was established back at the beginning with him wanting to break out (by reprogramming a PADD to unlock all the security doors, escaping, and making it as far as Sausilito, as he says), he uses the opportunity to not only see his Augments after 10 years away from them, but to escape and be with them again. And the character is not a Snidely Whiplash like a Xindi-Reptillian. He's not there to wantonly "kill the Humans", but to secure the means to carry out his vision, which is what Khan does in TOS "Space Seed" - ie., his folks take over the 1701 and give Kirk the airlock treatment. ;-) What saves Kirk is the deux ex machina of the Historian McGyvers, who at the last minute, relents to help Kirk. However her damage was done and she is forced to go with Khan to Ceti Alpha V rather than face a court martial.
In this case, it seems that someone at least attempted to shrink the plot holes that would have been cavernous had it been another writer. ;-)
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
I don't get it...he enjoys Storm Front 2 (which was probably the weakest of this season), and then hammers Borderland. What happened?
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Scientists discover the world that exists;
engineers create the world that never was.
-Theodore von Kármán
I honestly can't take O. Deus's reviews seriously anymore. I have yet to see major complaint posts about the episode, and the episode was praised by other critics. So far, season 1 & 2 episodes are getting much higher reviews than season 4 episodes and at this point, 4 episodes in a row have gotten negative reviews. I find it hard to believe that this episode is ranked as equal to Storm Front 1 and 2…
I want to know the REAL criteria for evaluating these episodes because the reviews seem to be very inconsistent. Am I to understand that episodes like "Three Days and Three Nights" or "The Seventh" are far superior episodes compared to season 4 episodes? Are these episodes compared to the standard set by previous seasons, earlier episodes in the season, other T.V. shows? So far, it just seems like O. Deus is just expressing his own emotional reaction to the episode… which should be written as another post in the 602 club. The only consistent thing I find is that if a plot has anything to do with T’Pol or Trip, the entire episode will get a bad review.
The best approach to getting the general consensus on an episode is to take the rotten tomato approach of combining reviews of all critics, and fan support. In this case, the episode would probably get an 85% (O. Deus giving the one rotten review).
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"We're starfleet officers....weird is part of the job!"
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First of all the reviews aren't negative, if they were negative the episodes would be rated a 3 not a 6.
Second of all the criteria are not that hard to fathom since I pretty throughly lay them out and explain the issues involved in a particular episode in great detail. Asking why implies you either didn't read the review or just want to complain and you have every right to your view. As do I and I back mine up pretty thoroughly. I don't know what other critics say, I don't read them. If you want my reviews to be identical to other critics though, what would be the point of my writing my own review instead of plagirizing theirs?
My essential objection to this episode was its lack of a credible enemy, silly performances and generally weak and uninspired storytelling. Neither of those are minor points and I've gone in detail as to why they're an issue.
As far as Two Days and Two Nights go, it got a positive review because it was by its own light an entertaining episode. Ditto for The Seventh which had suspense and a strong guest starring performance and most importantly....character growth. Some might argue that Borderland had a strong guest star but it's all but impossible to argue it had either suspense or character growth.
Nuff said.
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As far as Two Days and Two Nights go, it got a positive review because it was by its own light an entertaining episode.
I just don't see how you can find Two Days and Two Nights more entertaining than Borderland. I guess I just don't follow your logic.
That's all.
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
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"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
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I guess it's all a matter of taste. I thought the episode was fantastic, with great character moments, a coherent plot, and a lot of fun. At the end of the day, I wonder if it's too much to ask that the main reviewer for this site LIKE the series. I'm not saying a review shouldn't criticize a show's weak points...but I can't think that these overwhelmingly negative reviews (you may say it's not "negative" because you gave it a 6, but 90% of the review was complaint, not praise) aren't out of step with what most of the posters feel. Look at the 1 to 10 rating for the episodes. People are responding to theses episodes. The new direction is the best thing to ever happen to this show.
I am NOT someone to silence criticism...but the ONLY official reviewer for the site has a lot of clout. Paramount is in the process of deciding whether to CANCEL this show and make these geeky webboards into REALLY geeky boards that discuss a show from the PAST. They're trying to kill the thing we love. FANS are what saved Trek the first time...getting the movies green-lighted. FANS are less relevant than they were back then...but the FANBASE has to show Paramount that we still want Trek. We need to cheer for our team. They gave us what we want. Manny Coto. Continuity. Let's nurture it, not just bicker. I'm really glad Steve took the "Bicker" comment out of the webboard's mission statement. It's time to circle the wagons, folks.
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This is ultimately far more interesting than the tedious scenes featuring internal rivalries between the supermen who look,, act and sound like refugees from a bad 80's music video.
If you want to use that analogy, then the same can be applied to Khan and his followers whom, had crappy dialogue as well. As for Spiner's performance being weak, I diagree. While not emmy award winning, Spiner's performance was believable, and his character is easy to by. He nails his performance good.
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I agree that so far the Augments aren't very compelling and I found the inter-Augment conflict to be contrived and unnecessary. Someone brought up the notion of "superior ambition" but if that's so, the original leader certainly wasn't very ambitious, as the others says he lacked the desire to get them off their planet.
I disagree with Deus about Spiner, though. I thought he was great and in his interviews he clearly expressed a desire to do a good job and inject some life into the performance, which I think he did well. Yes he hammed it up at times, but that's the point. At least he had energy. I thought had some great scenes, too, esp his escape attempt on the Orion colony. The magno-cuffs were used very well.
I liked the Augment's costumes and hairstyles, though, which I thought meshed very well with what we saw in WRATH OF KHAN. Malik definitely looks like a young KHAN, at least in costume and style, if not ethnicity.
Trip and T'Pol bore me as well but I give them credit for continuing it and not just magically forgetting it or leaving it behind. We may not like it but at least it's being written more realistically of late.
I do tend to agree with regard to the Klingons, however. I am happy that this may restore continuity inasmuch as the Earth-Klingon first contact disaster, but I agree that it's a bit false the notion that the Augments would stimulate a "war" with the Klingons after Archer's done more than enough to justify that already and it hasn't happened. But of course there are two more episodes to flesh this out so "Borderland" pretty much gets a pass.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
Well, you are certainly in the minority sir. :) This is the first negative review of this episode I've read. Can't say I agree with a single point. Hopefully, the rest of the arc will agree with you more.
ok, so the Augments weren't all that interesting but I loved Spiner hamming it up. Ham rules on Star Trek, its goes in its blood from the 60s. Comes part & parcell with the package.
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An elephant never forgets . . .TO KILL!
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Much has been made of the Augments looking (and dressing) like Khan and his followers did in TWOK. But consider this: Khan's people looked like they did because they'd been marooned on Ceti-Alpha V for fifteen years. What's the Augments' excuse? Did Arik Soong forget to teach them how to dress themselves before he was captured? Superior intellect may breed superior ambition, but I guess it breeds inferior fashion sense, too. I mean, couldn't somebody figure out how to make a whole shirt?
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"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers." -- Socrates.
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