One can hope these new direction episodes won't have plot holes large enough to fly a Galaxy-class starship through.
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Of course, he'll blow his credibility if the two wind up catching a glimpse of a Romulan...
Do you really think Manny hasn't considered this?
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This is what I've championed on these boards for years: the audience has seen the Romulans so there's no point in hiding them from us. Just give us scenes where we see the Romulans similar to how we saw the leaders of the Dominion in the end of DS9. Scenes that don't involve any main/Starfleet characters. That way the the show doesn't try to create suspense where none exists -- the audience knows who the Romulans are and what they're destined to do. It's only the characters that have to remain in the dark, and this perspective is actually a more interesting way. Making the audience omniscient vis a vis the characters rarely happens in television these days. It's an effective technique and I look forward to seeing it play out with the Romulans.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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I agree (and this is rare for you and me 
).
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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Of course, he'll blow his credibility if the two wind up catching a glimpse of a Romulan... and how the heck do they wind up on a Romulan vessel? Shuttle crash? Interception?
First of all, as long as the PUBLIC doesn't know and the Romulan identity is CLASSIFIED it's ok. There's nothing wrong in bending the rules. Secondly, I see no point in complaining on how Trip and Reed got on the Romulan ship just because the fact wasn't given. Obviously there is a perfectly good explaination, but since the information was incomplete we didn't get the info.
My advice to all: Don't jump to conclusions.
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"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek: The Beginning
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
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This is what Trek is supposed to be!!! They finally ended the ridiculous Temporal Cold War story line and will get back to good Trek. I thought "Home" was a huge step in the right direction in giving the series credibility. I would love to see a parallel universe plotline as well, perhaps to end the season. I really think they can start to build up the ratings and save the series.
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As far as the paralell universe thing goes, it is quite possible that the TCW created them. With all of the temporal meddling, time itself may have become fractured and continued along divergent paths. Apparently, the best way to access the parallell universe is by using a transporter.
However, I would prefer the stories to remain somewhat grounded in the relevant circumstances surrounding ENT. I would also like to see more of the new aliens that were introduced during ENT's first two seasons. The Xyrillians for one... Trip's first alien girlfreind who got him pregnant, that is... I would also love to see someone of Morn's species silently walking through a scene or even sitting at a bar.
At this point in the development of ENTERPRISE, there is enough material to weave an interesting tapestry of stories and incidental elements.
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"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here."
...this Valdore person is a younger version of Mark Lenard's character in "BoT"?
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That's a little too much of a stretch. The Romulan Commander on BoT was obviously younger then Sarek and he was born in 2164. The father maybe.
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"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek: The Beginning
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
I have to admit that if this is true, then it is going to be great! Now, I don't see the problem with this episode. True, there are a ton of references to TOS, but look at the story. It shows the precussor to the Babel conference, showing elements that will lead to the Federation and also an incident involving the Romulans that could lead to the Romulan Wars. And an episode involving the Romulan Wars is an episode involving the formation of the Federation. As expected, the founding members aren't really the best of friends with each other and it seems that only the humans are trying to mediate things among them. Now the best way for them to unite in a federation is for them to unite against a common enemy, the Romulans. And after 4 years of fighting side-by-side together, they have a great reason to unite to keep the peace.
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"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek: The Beginning
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
All sounds cool to me. These are the sort of episodes I wanted to see, with TOS species all hanging out. There is no need to freak out just because we are supposed to have never seen the face of a Romulan before. Ferengi on Enterprise = bad. Romulans on Enterprise - who cares?
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"He dipped his toes in the pools of normality, then went back to bask on insanity beach" - Aquafibio
This could be it ... Maybe the next episode could involve Nomad, the Doomsday Machine and the Salt Vampire? Maybe down the road we can meet the Guardian of Forever while simultaneously battling a huge cell membrane? How about, for the season finale, Enterprise is taken to the Machine Homeworld and they meet V'Ger while under construction.
Yeah, I'm rolling my eyes, too.
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"I was told this ship was the pride of Starfleet. I find it is small, and unimpressive."
"Funny, I was about to say the same thing about you."
Archer and Gral spar verbally in: "Babel One."
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Like comparing the origins of MAJOR incidents in Federation history like the Andorian/Tellarite relationship and the origins of the Romulan Wars to historical footnotes like the planet killer, the salt vampire and the Guardian of Forever.
Personally, I think it was more to swallow that between Picard and Data they've managed to encounter Kirk, Spock, Scotty, Sarek and Doctor McCoy (and Data was, what? about twenty years old?)
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I think Manny Coto needs to take his head out of the "Let's make ENT more like TOS" clouds and understand that tossing the fans all this TOS-related eye candy can't be a substitute for quality, legitimate characterization and storytelling. Enterprise should be able to regain some footing on its own merits, not by riding on the coattails of the Original Series. If Coto can't make me care about the main characters on this show, if he can't make this series something exciting to watch, something worthy of the Star Trek moniker, without relying on references to TREKs of the past, then I'm sorry to say that he's nowhere near the "savior of Enterprise" that some people are touting him to be.
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As expected, people spend three years complaining that ENT isn't really doing what a prequel should do -- that is, show us the events leading up to the time of Kirk etc. -- and now that they are doing just that, suddenly people start complaining that the ENT characters should be getting more time. Blah blah blah. Personally I don't see why the two are mutually exclusive. I much prefer TOS-related plots that make the prequel actually, well, a PREQUEL, as opposed to isolated plots.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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Quote:
As expected, people spend three years complaining that ENT isn't really doing what a prequel should do -- that is, show us the events leading up to the time of Kirk etc. -- and now that they are doing just that, suddenly people start complaining that the ENT characters should be getting more time. Blah blah blah. Personally I don't see why the two are mutually exclusive. I much prefer TOS-related plots that make the prequel actually, well, a PREQUEL, as opposed to isolated plots.
Yes, I've always felt that Enterprise should be a prequel in the sense that it leads slowly, but surely, to the time of the original series, and should bring forward the spirit of adventure and a touch of mystery that TOS so ably gave viewers. And, yes, some references to "future history" would've been a great way to tie things together. But, these TOS elements they're tossing at us now like buckets of chum to a group of sharks should've been delicately and carefully scattered throughout the past three years. To see so much now screams of desperation, and while these are desperate times for Enterprise, is that the message the writers want to convey? "Holy crap, ratings are in the sewer, fans are outraged...what do we do? I know, they love the original series!!! Let's toss a bunch of TOS goodies at them! That'll make them feel better! Yeah, sure, that's the ticket!"
There's been three years of lackluster character development and only a handful of well-written episodes. This season should've been the do-or-die for character development. Get Hoshi and Travis and the rest of the gang out of the shadows of Trip, T'Pol and Archer and give them the spotlight now and then. And, it doesn't have to be full episodes, like you're tossing them a bone. Give them a running storyline that could span several episodes, so they're given something to DO, and something for us to care about.
I get what Manny Coto is TRYING to do, and I admire his zeal. But, this all just feels like the writers and Berman/Braga are giving up on any chance that the main characters can keep the show afloat on their own, and relying on TOS references and special guest stars to keep the fans watching. It feels, to me, like the writers and creators have stopped trying, and as far as I'm concerned, they never really tried hard enough to begin with.
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Are these folks complaining about the TOS references the exact same folks that complained about it not truly being a prequel? If they are, then you're making a valid argument. If not, then it's just a generalization that doesn't really mean anything. When a bunch of different individuals post their viewpoints and get lumped together, then of course it will sound contradictory and contrary for contrary's sake. Add to that that this is the wonderful world of the internet where people have an inexplicable tendency to knee-jerk post their most negative responses and reactions to anything and everything, and it's probably not the most realistic snapshot of the fanbase.
I'm kind of in the "whatever" camp at this point, but I'm interested to see how Manny's declared fandom and intentions of classic Trek manifests itself. I think the prequel has been off-focus, and I do think you have to watch overdoing the continuity references (and no, I'm not saying that it sounds like he's overdoing it with the Babel stuff, which could be interesting).
"Home" was the first episode in a while that I've successfully been able to actually remember it was on, and then watch it without getting distracted. And it wasn't bad. Nowhere near greatness, not as strong as "Family" after BOBW, but it was good.
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"Now the Senate is looking for moderate judges, mainstream judges. What in the world is a moderate interpretation of a constitutional text? Halfway between what it says and what we'd like it to say?" - Justice Scalia
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I'm one of the people who actually enjoyed the first three years of Enterprise, granted season one wasn't all it could've been, but season's two and three were of very high quality. As the reviews on this site show, season's two and three while being much better quality wise got saddled with ever lower viewing figures which is why so many choose to bash it. There's nothing wrong with tying Enterprise into the other shows, as the TCW attempted to do, but this ... overuse of TOS icons could wear a little thin, the show should be doing its own thing instead of bringing all this baggage in. If the episodes are of good, high quality then I'll eat my words but I don't see why Coto has to spend so much time dragging up the littlest detail from TOS to use in Enterprise.
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"I was told this ship was the pride of Starfleet. I find it is small, and unimpressive."
"Funny, I was about to say the same thing about you."
Archer and Gral spar verbally in: "Babel One."
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Well considering the first three seasons had very little to do with the prequel-nature of the show (the Andorians being the biggest example), I don't think it's overambitious to construct the show's possibly last season very heavily around these ideas. The point is that ENT is a prequel. If it was a sequel to TNG, then you'd have a good point. But a prequel by its very nature is supposed to tie in to the later series. It's like saying the STAR WARS prequels shouldn't be wasting time with characters like Obi Wan, Anankin, Palpatine, C3PO etc. If they wanted to do a show entirely original, well, they shouldn't have done a prequel. DS9 is the perfect example. Completely original idea within the Trekverse, occasional appearance/tie-in with other series or Trek chronology, but otherwise completely self-sufficient in terms of stories and plot. VOY and TNG also fit this model of course, but DS9 was certainly the most different.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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youre right: this is the point of a prequel. it shows us how things got to be where they are in the TOS era.
geez i cant believe people are bitching b/c it's swung TOO far to the other end of the spectrum! OY! again, if ya dont like it, step off!! oh yeah, y'all that are complaining already have only seen up to 'home'...but that's ok, there'll always be those who dont like any of the food at the mile-long buffet at the ritz.
sheesh. go play on some other boards.
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I agree. This does sound less than redemptive.
Of course, he'll blow his credibility if the two wind up catching a glimpse of a Romulan... and how the heck do they wind up on a Romulan vessel? Shuttle crash? Interception?
I'll continue to stick with the Carlson/Okazaki timeline.
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"I'm astounded that your organization [the MSHSAA] tries to regulate what these kids do in their free time. Would you tell them they couldn't watch Star Trek or eat potato chips?"
-Missouri State Rep. Bryan Stevenson, R-Joplin
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I think Manny Coto needs to take his head out of the "Let's make ENT more like TOS" clouds and understand that tossing the fans all this TOS-related eye candy can't be a substitute for quality, legitimate characterization and storytelling. Enterprise should be able to regain some footing on its own merits, not by riding on the coattails of the Original Series. If Coto can't make me care about the main characters on this show, if he can't make this series something exciting to watch, something worthy of the Star Trek moniker, without relying on references to TREKs of the past, then I'm sorry to say that he's nowhere near the "savior of Enterprise" that some people are touting him to be.
wasnt Valdore the name of Cmdr. Donatra's romulan warbird in ST Nemesis?
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yes I believe you are right. That would also be an ironic twist. The Commander who from the sound of it is trying to "valiantly" cause contention between 4 powerful and potentially powerful quadrant powers. Whose name is bestowed upon a Romulan flagship, that is partially responsible for the eventual thawing of Romualn/Federation relations (at least that is the intimation left at the end of Nemesis.) Ironic. Sounds fun!
I just wanted the chance to post before everyone goes Haywire about Trip and Malcolm being on the Romulan ship. They may be onboard, but they're also hiding from being caught by the romulans. If they do a good enough job of the hiding, they will never need be in the same room as one of the Romulans at any one time, and thus never see them.
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What did MacBeth think of this post?
"It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing."
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I don't think anybody has any reason to flip out over this episode. The Romulan's fit perfectly into this situation; the first elements of the Federation. It's also possible that Romulan's may wear some sort of helmets like in the Balance of Terror.
We'll get the usual moaners bitching about B&B, continuity blah blah blah.
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"We're starfleet officers....weird is part of the job!"
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