Thought that the special effects looked like cheap plastic models?
Some notes:
1) Amazing that Vosk *didn't* kill the scientist character for failing to get the Temporal Conduit working first time. Never seen that on a sci fi show.
2) Have any of the actors been on 'Sliders'? They reminded me of the Cro-Mags at times.
3) The afore-mentioned plastic-y model look of the special efffects. Particularly in the close up scene of Enterprise's phase cannons and the close up shot of the ship at the end.
4) Did anyone else find Silik's voice much creepier when coming from a 'Human'?
5) "You've changed, Captain." - "Not all for the better." 'Nuff said.
6) How many deep space ships does Starfleet have? A lot of those in the fleet at the end looked Warp capable.
7) If Daniels is still alive does that mean Silik is, as well? It would be nice to have him come back.
I'd probably give both parts of 'Storm Front' an overall 7/10 ...
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"I was told this ship was the pride of Starfleet. I find it is small, and unimpressive."
"Funny, I was about to say the same thing about you."
Archer and Gral spar verbally in: "Babel One."
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Amazing that Vosk *didn't* kill the scientist character for failing to get the Temporal Conduit working first time.
Why should he kill the scientist? They were all working as a team. They tried several times to make the conduit work but it just wasn't ready. I think Vosk fully understood the problems.
Remember that he called them "my brothers". I really doubt he would harm them. On the contrary he would do almost anything to keep them united. My understanding of the Vosk character is, he was not aggressive. I'm sure he did not consider himself evil. He was not a one-dimensional bad guy, shooting at every obstacle and driving everyone on the defense. No, he was clever. He had his own set of values, and he shared them with the scientist and all the others from his team.
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Am I seriously the only one who thought that the special effects looked like cheap plastic models?
Yes, you are the only one who thinks the FX were bad. I am speechless about the city. If that was CG it was extremely convincing!
If you call Trek fastfood for the mind, what do you call other series? I would call them junkfood at best, poison at worst.
I didn't notice the similarity between this particular Archer / Alisia scene, and Picard / what-was-her-name scene in First Contact... And even if I did, I don't think it would matter!
[edit: I have no idea why this reply came up as a new post]
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Sounds much like the Kirk/Amanda scene from Star Trek IV to me. :)
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"Oh, I'll wake up
To any sound of engines,
Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
I enjoyed the ep for what it was. I'm really looking forward to see what Coto is going to give us for the rest of the season.
Some points:
1. How can ENT fly so low in Earth's atmosphere? Kirk's Enterprise couldn't do it ... how can this ship do it? Why not just send a torpedo and avoid the continuity difficulty?
2. So the TCW is over. Am I alone is asking this: What the hell was it all about??? Who was fighting it? Who is future guy? How could it simply end like that? What were "their" goals? It's all bizarre to me. I've watched every ep (almost) of ENT but still have no idea what the hell is going on with the TCW, and this ep. was supposed to wrap everything up! Am I alone in asking, WTF?
Timmer33
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Quote from timmer33:
I enjoyed the ep for what it was.
It was poor writing, by any serious measure of how a truly skilled writer may turn a lemon premise into lemonade storytelling -- especially when we consider that Coto had extra (summer hiatus) time to make Storm Front a thoughtful season premiere that's also the premiere of his being the show-runner of a Star Trek series that's in dire straits.
Based on everything I've seen of Coto thus far (including S3), he's a voluntary and well-paid part of ENT's aggressive S4 PR campaign. He has certainly been part of the problem; maybe he actually hopes to be part of the solution.
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"Mirror, Mirror" Action Figures
EDIT: My topic heading should be;
"Boring and forgettable except...."
the classic opening news-reel and the great FX of Enterprise engaing in a dog-fight over manhattan.
Other than that we can forget the episode like it never really happened and hit our reset button(B&B would love this sentence).
Can enteprise live long & prosper?..that's the question which preoccupies us....
alicia TRAVIS, is she the grand-grand-gran (etc.) ma of travis the pilot on enterprise? am i getting first and last names mixed up?
the 'news on the march' reference is the first time any star trek show has ever dared to be different in the opening sequence. meaning if you watched any other SF shows like the x-files they do it all the time, they show a montage of things not from the show but show you the motif of the show they are about to broadcast. i thought it was very daring. a throwback to citizen kane-days. i think this is where i felt that this season will be different. there has never been (as far as i know) any star trek episode in the past that has ever done this sort of montage. anybody care to correct me?
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LET THEM DIE!!!
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alicia TRAVIS, is she the grand-grand-gran (etc.) ma of travis the pilot on enterprise? am i getting first and last names mixed up?
It was "Alicia Travers" and is Travis Mayweather. ;-)
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the 'news on the march' reference is the first time any star trek show has ever dared to be different in the opening sequence.
Um... no.
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meaning if you watched any other SF shows like the x-files they do it all the time, they show a montage of things not from the show but show you the motif of the show they are about to broadcast. i thought it was very daring.
Most teasers try to do something unique to make you want to come back after the opening credits. ENT has generally been a bit boring with theirs. ;-)
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a throwback to citizen kane-days. i think this is where i felt that this season will be different. there has never been (as far as i know) any star trek episode in the past that has ever done this sort of montage. anybody care to correct me?
You don't watch Star Trek much, do you? ;-)
As an example, VOY "Night" started out with stuff like this.
(remember, there were over 600 Star Trek episodes that had aired before ENT premiered... ;-))
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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dax,
post tng i haven't watched ds9 nor voy in full. i dunno if i'll have time to fully remedy that. i've seen bits and pieces.
regarding your link to "night" that doesn't count. you see, in the x-files (if you watch that much) there are certain episodes (Biogenesis @end of season6 comes to mind) where the episode begins WITHOUT any actors/actresses from the show onscreen. instead you are treated to a montage that has underlines the motifs in the show. with this specific ent episode you are treated to a montage of what would have happened had hitler continued westward and invaded US. artistically, i thought it was brilliant daring. in that night episode from voyager you cited you had the actors/actresses from voyager in the 'teaser'.
now i've not watched ds9/voy much but i challenge any trekkie to find an episode where the teaser does NOT visually contain actor/actresses from the series. i'd very much like to know myself.
re: travis, thx for clearing that up =).
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LET THEM DIE!!!
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See below from what our dear Captain of the USS Excalibur gives as examples. ;-)
Like I said, before ENT premiered, there were some 600+ hours of episodes (plus the films). I pointed out VOY "Night" because it started out like a B-move with Chaotica before you even see Tom and Harry. But what's funny is that right at the end of the teaser, the EMH comes into the holodeck (which was set for everything, including Tom and Harry, in B & W), in full color.... and one of the holodeck characters screams when she see him enter. LOL Similarly, VOY "Bride of Chaotica" has most of the episode shot in B & W.
Some TOS "Tomorrow is Yesterday" screen caps can be seen here, where you see the airforce base and Captain Christopher's jet (the things in the first 6 pics in that link), and then Christopher spots the 1701 above him before the end of the teaser- all of this before the opening credits. None of the main cast appear in the teaser.
TNG "Face of the Enemy" has who we only know is Troi by the voice, in bed in the dark and when she tries to turn on the lights by voice command and they won't work, she jumps up, stumbles around, finds a panel of buttons and finally gets the lights on, where you see her standing in front of a mirror in a room on a Romulan Warbird, surgically altered to look like a Romulan. End teaser. LOL
Time to watch some Star Trek babe. There's alot of creative stuff in the midst of all that body of work. ;-)
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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i suppose i should be even more specific. all of the examples still have to do with star trek somehow and they are NOT montages (as i mentioned). all you guys are listing are episodes (and the films don't count, such as final frontier) where the primary cast/crew don't appear. but if you read my whole criteria i asked for montages. i mean you folx have obviously seen the x-files. episodes like Biogenesis have clips that have nothing to do with the show (so it seems) but really turns out to have everything to do with the show later on. with this opening of enterprise they have achieved that rare-feat.
i still ask, are there any 'montages' that appear to have nothing to do with the show but become more relevant after the show is finished? do i have to explain what a montage is?
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LET THEM DIE!!!
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If you watch the Chaotica eps where they start out in the teaser with that program running, THAT has nothing to do with the show either, yet it is different from other teasers that directly setup the action for the rest of the episode. Particularly the fact that such were shot in black and white.
Your entire argument, at least what I was getting out of what you wrote, was that Star Trek did nothing like that and was creatively boring with its teasers and I would disagree - unless you are actually talking about opening credits scenes. To me, what they showed as the teaser of SF2 was similar to the type of teaser shown in VOY "Bride of Chaotica", where it wasn't directly related to the plot but elements would be revisited at some point.
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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it's very hard for me to explain it. here is a transcript of Biogenesis episode from XF:
"SCENE 1
(Under SCULLY's voiceover, we see some stock footage of scenes of the Earth as viewed from space, the ocean, single celled organisms squirming around, then a dry desert landscape. Then plants, insects, a crocodile, picture of dinosaur, birds, more plants, early man, footage from the movie of the cavemen running over the snow, cave paintings, modern man, Apollo launch, lots of cars, DNA helix, interspersed here and there with deserts every time she mentions extinction.)
SCULLY: (voiceover) From Space, it seems an abstraction-- a magician's trick on a darkened stage. And from this distance one might never imagine that it is alive. It first appeared in the sea almost four billion years ago in the form of single-celled life. In an explosion of life spanning millions of years, nature's first multicellular organisms began to multiply... and then it stopped. 440 million years ago, a great mass extinction would kill off nearly every species on the planet leaving the vast oceans decimated and empty. Slowly, plants began to evolve, then insects, only to be wiped out in the second great mass extinction upon the Earth. The cycle repeated again and again. Reptiles emerging, independent of the sea only to be killed off. Then dinosaurs, struggling to life along with the first birds, fish, and flowering plants - their decimations Earth's fourth and fifth great extinctions. Only 100,000 years ago, Homo Sapiens appear-- man. From cave paintings to the bible to Columbus and Apollo 11, we have been a tireless force upon the earth and off cataloguing the natural world as it unfolds to us. Rising to a world population of over five billion people all descended from that original single cell, that first spark of life. But for all our knowledge, what no one can say for certain, is what or who ignited that original spark. Is there a plan, a purpose or a reason to our existence? Will we pass, as those before us, into oblivion, into the sixth extinction that scientists warn is already in progress?
(FADE TO: African coast. Men are shouting excitedly in Swahili. They kneel down at the water's edge and look at a broken metal fragment that is sticking up out of the sand. It has strange writing on it. Close up on fragment as the water washes over it.)
SCULLY: (voiceover) Or will the mystery be revealed through a sign, a symbol, a revelation?"
^now THAT'S the opening that i was talking about. it seems SF2's opening had very creative opening. i dunno why all of you aren't talking about it. it's not a "typical" teaser by any means at all. it's the first of its kind as far as i can tell. that shows you that this season is somn different. i hope i'm making some sense, no?
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LET THEM DIE!!!
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^now THAT'S the opening that i was talking about. it seems SF2's opening had very creative opening. i dunno why all of you aren't talking about it. it's not a "typical" teaser by any means at all. it's the first of its kind as far as i can tell. that shows you that this season is somn different. i hope i'm making some sense, no?
And what about this opening for VOY "Night" (shot in black and white):
Chaotica: "Citizens of Earth! Your destiny is in my hands. Those of you who acquiesce to my demands will be treated fairly. Oppose me, and you face a dire fate indeed as my slaves in the mines of Mercury! You have one hour."
Kim: "You'll never get away with this."
Chaotica: "Oh, but I shall. Your once proud country will fall to its knees. How ironic that I am using your rocket ship to lead my space force into battle!"
Kim: "You're wrong, Chaotica. Before you came on board, someone pushed the self destruct button. In three minutes, we'll all be dead."
Chaotica: "No!"
Paris: "The jig is up, your Majesty."
Chaotica: "Captain Proton."
Paris: "Spaceman First Class, Protector of Earth, scourge of intergalactic evil, at your service."
Chaotica: "But I saw you fall into the fiery mouth of that volcano."
Paris: "It takes more than a little lava to stop Captain Proton. Now, I want you to call off your invasion and give me back my rocket ship."
Chaotica: "There is one force in this universe that even you cannot defeat."
(EMH enters in color and Constance Goodheart screams)
EMH: "The same to you."
Paris: "Doc."
EMH: "Mister Paris. I should have known it was you monopolising the holodeck."
Chaotica: "Who is this insolent fool?"
Kim: "He's one of our men. Computer, adjust the Doctor's spectral frequency."
EMH: "I have no interest in your frivolous fantasy. I'm here to rehearse a duet from Don Carlo and you've already gone three minutes into my scheduled--"
Chaotica: "Enough! Robot, attack! Destroy them. Start with him."
EMH: "Computer, freeze program."
Paris: "Doc, this is the final chapter. Satan's Robot Conquers the World. We can't stop now."
EMH: "Does the phrase to be continued mean anything to you?"
Paris: "Your opera can wait."
EMH: "This program is a waste of photonic energy."
Paris: "Oh, really. Take a look around you. This is how the twentieth century saw the future. We are studying sociology."
EMH: "Perhaps you can teach a course at Starfleet Academy. Satan's Robot - an Historical Overview."
Now THAT is an irony of all ironies and teasers. A science fiction show where the characters are participating in a re-enactment of a science fiction show. ;-)
I hope this makes sense regarding "creativity".
And BTW, with respect to montages, Trek has a number of them in eps - mostly VOY, eg., VOY "Random Thoughts", VOY "Cold Fire", even DS9 has them, eg. the finale DS9 "What You Leave Behind I & II" has a real long montage.
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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uh... i already said you can't have the cast/crew in the teaser. so "night" doesn't count. i suppose you guys will never get it/understand it but teasers like XF is far far better than anything trek can conjure up. the XF teaser is a more decidely high-class intellectual probing.
what i'm trying to say is that the when you watched the teaser/montage from XF you would've never guessed that it was the XF shows... until dana's voice came on. same with enterprise SF2's opening, if you happen to tune in at the opening you didn't know it was star trek until the opening title came up. THAT'S what i call creativity. having the cast/crew in the teaser automatically gives it away. not only that but having a great montage of opening gives an idea a much larger canvas for the show's mythology.
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LET THEM DIE!!!
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uh... i already said you can't have the cast/crew in the teaser. so "night" doesn't count.
We gave you a whole list of examples without the crew in the teaser, but you ignored it.
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i suppose you guys will never get it/understand it but teasers like XF is far far better than anything trek can conjure up. the XF teaser is a more decidely high-class intellectual probing.
You admitted here that you haven't watched what has amounted to 1/2 of the Trek episodes that have been produced. How can you make that judgement?
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what i'm trying to say is that the when you watched the teaser/montage from XF you would've never guessed that it was the XF shows... until dana's voice came on. same with enterprise SF2's opening, if you happen to tune in at the opening you didn't know it was star trek until the opening title came up.
Anyone who has taken any history would KNOW that what they were seeing wasn't real, when you have Hitler essentially Photoshopped in front of the Statue of Liberty.
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THAT'S what i call creativity.
No, it's cliche.
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having the cast/crew in the teaser automatically gives it away.
Again - go watch the list of Trek episodes in this thread. Go look at TOS "Devil in the Dark".
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not only that but having a great montage of opening gives an idea a much larger canvas for the show's mythology.
X-Files is a show taking place in current times. Star Trek is not. ;-)
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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now i've not watched ds9/voy much but i challenge any trekkie to find an episode where the teaser does NOT visually contain actor/actresses from the series. i'd very much like to know myself.
If memory serves:
"Tomorrow Is Yesterday" [TOS]
Opens with military base footage. They are pursuing a UFO, which turns out to be the Enterprise.
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
Opens with Sybok on a desert planet. TOS crew does not appear until after opening film credits. I actually stepped out of the theater to make sure I was in the right movie on this one. (Okay, "The Neutral Zone" should have made it obvious, but give me a break, I was 10!)
"The Visitor" [DS9]
Opens with a young woman coming to the house of an old man who turns out to be Jake Sisko (played by Tony Todd rather than Cirroc Lofton).
"Distant Origin" [VGR]
Opens with reptillian scientists finding remains of a Starfleet crewmember. The Voyager crew doesn't appear for quite some time (until act 2 or 3 if I'm not mistaken).
"Living Witness" [VGR]
I believe this opened with a tour that mentioned Voyager, but did not feature the ship or her crew.
"Live Fast and Prosper" [VGR]
If memory serves, this opened with the "fake" Janeway and Tuvok.
Enterprise Season 3
Several episodes opened with a Xindi council sequence not featuring the crew, although I couldn't tell you which ones offhand.
I believe there were more, but they're not coming to mind. I'm sure someone else will think of them... Anyone know of a TNG example? Or maybe even a TAS example?
Keeping in mind, of course, that none of this mitigates the daring and imagination shown in the teaser to "Storm Front Part II". Bravo to the writers and producers that made that work!
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"You know what six movies average out to be really good? The first six Star Trek movies!" -- Fry, Futurama
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Yep - your examples are correct - VOY seemed to have the most of this sort of thing. About the closest to TNG I listed above - TNG "Face of the Enemy", although it is Troi surgically altered to look like a Romulan.
TOS "Conscience of the King" starts off with a play and it's not until near the end of the teaser where you see Kirk sitting there watching it with another guy, where the other guy becomes insistent that the lead IS "Kodos the Executioner". End of teaser.
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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Quote from JediFonger:
alicia TRAVIS, is she the grand-grand-gran (etc.) ma of travis the pilot on enterprise? am i getting first and last names mixed up?
The young lady's name is Alicia Travers. The pilot's name is Travis Mayweather.
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"Mirror, Mirror" Action Figures
I don't know about the rest of you but I was literally bored to tears watching this episode. But all in all, I am grateful this TCW has finally been laid to rest and I do hope they nail that coffin tightly shut.
I'm surprised that no one, not even Deus, noticed the most obvious flaw in Storm Front, that it came accross as a most obvious comparison to the Lilly and Picard characters in First Contact. In both stories you have a captain of the Enterprise travelling back in time, much against their will, to stop a villain from wreaking havoc in earth's past to guarantee their evil future. In both stories, a white male captain from the future with knowledge of superior technology and earth's rightful history encounters a brave black female who serves as foot soldier to some greater historic cause. In both stories she gets beamed up to the Enterprise and in both stories she plays a pivotal role in winning the war against the aliens. I'm deeply surprised no one caught on to this.
The biggest difference between the two stories however, is that Lilly and Picard were both FIRST RATE actors working from a FIRST CLASS script. Archer and Alisia pale horribly in comparison, for example, to Picard and Lilly's famous Moby Dick scene in Picard's waiting room, and Lilly's reaction to finding herself on a 24th century spaceship was much more believable. I know if I found myself suddenly beamed onto a starship from the future, I'd react with far more amazement and wonder than Alisia did; for her, it was a regular walk through the park.
I also found the resetting of the time line after Vosk's death to be somewhat simplistic and anti-climatic. It reminded me of one giant, big ass red reset button. It makes no sense that killing Vosk suddenly puts everything back to normal, and although I very much share Coto's urgent need to desperately put this TCW arch out of its misery once and for all, I felt it could have been done with a bit more grace and credibility. That entire scene with the time line resetting itself came accross to me as cheap and patronizing. It looked no more impressive than two people standing in front of a projection film screen throwing out dialog to the audience in order to quickly bring a badly thought out story to a hurried end. It smacked of desperation.
All in all, I'm deeply grateful this embarassing chapter in Trek history has been brought to a close, however clumsily they ended it. I got the distinct impression that Coto just wanted to get the thing over with so that we could all start breathing a sigh of relief. Despite its past disappointments however, I'm willing to give the new producer a chance to take the franchise into a new direction. I don't at all envy Coto, he's laboring under the giant burden of Herculean expectations. I only hope he can deliver.
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Hey, as much as many liked First Contact (and, by the way, I did too), I hate to rain on your parade, but as good as it might have been, the story still smacked of TV. I mean, the two parallel plots, the Data "B story" etc.
Frankly, none of the TNG movies ever feel like a "movie" to me.
So, IMHO, First Contact can hardly be called a first class story. In fact, the whole Lily story struck me as a way to tack on some deep literary meaning (referencing Melville) to what is, in essence, a popcorn pop cultural story.
You want "first class"? Read a frickin' book! Or watch a real drama, something made by Kubrick or Scorcese.
Which brings me to Storm Front. Given the cheesy WTF season ending, I don't think you could've asked for much more. Personally, I rated it "not bad", which would be about a 6 on 10.
But, to tell you the truth, I always thought Trek was a simple adventure show, with a little bit of "intellectual" ideas to season the plots with. Bottom line is... it's all fast food for the mind.
Well, at least you didn't try to make Trek out for something deeply philosophical, which it never was, Gene Roddenberry myth notwithstanding.
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"Dieu fort, Père paterne
Qui mua l'eau en vin,
Fais de mon cul lanterne
Pour luyre à mon voisin."
- Panurge, dans le Cinquième Livre de Françoys Rabelais
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I'm deeply surprised no one caught on to this.
Alot of people noticed it. But at this point, ENT has pretty much ripped off of several popular sci fi series and films (and things from all 5 released Star Wars films appear throughout the past couple seasons of ENT), and has incorporated elements of past Trek including FC, with last season essentially ripping from TVH. It was bad enough that NEM ripped from TWoK. ;-)
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
I must say, I loved Stormfront II for several reasons. It's hard to overlook the supreme FX and I relished in the final scene when time was resetting itself. I loved the music and graphics of that scene; the whole feeling of it!
Now onto the meat. I noted some interesting pieces of dialogue that points in a new direction for the show. Stormfront (both parts) was written by Manny Coto and I tried to find some noticable changes. Well, for one thing it was nice to have a villian (Vosk) with a philosophy. He briefly explained his belief about the use of time-machines, and he believed in destiny. He didn't even have to shout. I find such people are worth listening to. The tone is more serious than the yelling and bickering in the Xindi counsil.
Alisia's personality was also a surprise. She was not overly shocked by the sight of aliens, getting beamed up, and she was relatively calm being on a starship for the first time. Is this behaviour realistic for people in the 1940'es? I don't know, but I always imagined they would panic.
I also did not fully comprehend why the Temporal Cold War ends with Vosk. It came out of the blue. The episode itself does not require an explanation but I have followed the TCW all the way since season 1 and there were many species involved. However, it was clear to me from the beginning that Daniels used Archer was a tool, probably among many other "tools", so it has never been Archers battle. It may be that stopping Vosk is the ultimate reset-button; the key to wipe out all the people who participated in the TCW - all in one stroke.
I really look forward to see how season 4 turns out, and I'm trying to stay optimistic about the ratings. I have always liked Enterprise but I realise that many people feel, Star Trek needs to develop itself further; to evolve. I think they're right that we can't prolong the life of Star Trek much further within the same parameters. But it will take time to change things. Hopefully, ENT will have at least one full season.
Another review without a rating?
And the Temporal Cold War is over, finally! I really didn't really have a problem with the TCW arc, in concept it's a neat idea, but in its execution, TPTB ran head first into so many brick walls that I'm glad they've put it to rest. The sad thing is that ENT finally got an original "villain race" of its own that was interesting and worth fighting against, and then, it seems, gets rid of them for good. (I am speaking about Vosk's people [whose name I don't think was mentioned or I can't remember]. Compared with the rather benign Suliban and the sometimes clichéd Xindi, I was kind of creeped out by Vosk and his ideas of using time travel to achieve perfection.) I think the writers of this one did a good job of taking a WTF alien of the week in a Nazi uniform WHO LOOKED WAY TOO MUCH LIKE A REMAN, and turning him into a real nemesis that had a reasonable amount of character depth.
The members of the mafia, while a nice alternate-period touch, were pretty much filler as far as I'm concerned. The best served their purpose in Part I where Archer needed someone to come to his aid, and we needed someone to fill us in on what was going on in this timeline. Alicia had some neat moments in Part I, but in Part II she came off as a little too Lily-esque (ala First Contact) and kinda looked awkward carrying around that huge gun all the time.
The ending was VERY rushed and WAY too simple. Daniels basically just says, "Ok, all better now, bye bye." But this is a relief. B&B have been overcooking the TCW for way too long, and I got the feeling that Manny wanted nothing more than to stick a fork into this one. By far, my favorite part of the episode (yes, even more-so than watching the Enterprise buzz NYC) was the warm feeling of relief and closure I got when they returned home escorted by a welcome home fleet... the feeling I should have gotten five months or so ago at the end of Zero Hour! But alas, it wouldn't have been the same without the cliffhanger.
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
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"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
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Really, what was so bad about the TCW? Broken Bow was great as were Cold Front and Shockwave, Part 1. Shockwave, Part 2, Storm Front, Part 1 and The Expanse could have been better, but they were still entertaining overall. Future Tense was great, and Storm Front, Part 2 was good. The Xindi subplot of the TCW was generally decent as well. What was so bad?
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"my mind is slipping away ... day by glorious day" -RA Gorkin
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No no, I loved the Xindi plot (they were a tad bland until Degra got more involved and we got the see the council start to decay). Future Tense was a wonderful show as well, and I thoroughly enjoyed the Shockwaves. Here's my problem...
Time travel, while always a Star Trek staple, has usually only been used once in a while during the Franchise's legacy. It's a great story telling tool and really makes the viewer's brain work overtime. However, paradoxes are inherent to time travel, and paradoxes are difficult things to explain away. Near the end of the Xindi arc, the Sphere-Builders showed a great concept to rectify this problem by hinting at numerous timelines and how they judged their success or failure by how many of those timelines had a "favorable" outcome. But I digress...
Too much time travel, that's what it comes down to for me. I like it when a story about temporal hijinx really explains and shows how the crisis is resolved... we get to see how our characters actions affect the timeline. This was betrayed at the end of Storm Front Part 2 when all they had to do was stop Vosk and everything would be ok. What bothered me was how the Enterprise crew was dumped into the middle of the temporal insurgence; several years after Vosk had been meddling in Earth affairs. From my point of view, stopping Vosk when he's already done so much damage doesn't solve the problem. The timeline had already changed so much, and all things being equal, should have stayed that way after his destruction... i.e. Nazi's still control the U.S. east coast. But all of the sudden, Vosk dies, Daniels lives, and it's all better now, no discussion into how it all got made better, it just is, so there. I realize that Coto was painted into a corner; he just wanted it to end.
The other thing is that the TCW was never really addressed. It was spoken of, but we never really got to see exactly what was going on during it. I don't really know how it could have been made better, but I just know that I didn't get much out of it. There never was the sense of urgency or involvement or struggle that we saw during DS9's Dominion War, ENT's Xindi crisis, or even TNG's struggles with the Borg (true there was no Borg "arc," but I was always waiting with baited breath for their reappearance). Like I said in the post, it's not that I have an actual problem with a Temporal Cold War, it's just the execution didn't work for me. And to leave the whole thing without ever introducing Future Guy is a big no-no in my book. J.M.S. says it best; never introduce an element into an arc that you don't resolve at some point, because it cheats your viewers.
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
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Star Trek: Enterprise is really the first Sci-fi show since Quantum Leap to use time travel as a setting rather than a plot device. Think of the TCW as an excuse for reintroducing God-like aliens to Trek. Daniels, Silik, the Sphere Builders, and Future Guy were all flawed Greek Gods interfering with humanity (and Xindity, and others) for their own logical or illogical purposes. Taken as that, the TCW is not an arc but the setting. There is nothing to resolve.
At least, I think that's what the intention of the TCW was.
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"my mind is slipping away ... day by glorious day" -RA Gorkin
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Quote:
Star Trek: Enterprise is really the first Sci-fi show since Quantum Leap to use time travel as a setting rather than a plot device.
...unless you include Sliders... while that show wasn't really about time travel, some of the different Earths they visited were in a different time period than our own... but n e way...
Quote:
Think of the TCW as an excuse for reintroducing God-like aliens to Trek. Daniels, Silik, the Sphere Builders, and Future Guy
I do not view any of these people as being god-like aliens. Daniels is human, he's just from the future. Silik is no more god-like than Dr. Bashir or Khan... he's just genetically engineered to have more "abilities." Future Guy is far from god-like... in Storm Front II Silik reveals that FG wants Vosk's technology in order to be able to travel through time. The Sphere Builders, while very powerful, are not god-like because for all their power they require the Xindi to do their bidding to accomplish their goals. To me, "god-like" means Trelane or Q.
Quote:
...were all flawed Greek Gods interfering with humanity (and Xindity, and others) for their own logical or illogical purposes.
Well, if that's what you tune in to see every week, then more power to you. That's not what Star Trek is to me, though.
Quote:
There is nothing to resolve.
...except for
1. Who is Future Guy?
2. Who exactly are the Suliban (besides the genetically enhanced bad guys)?
3. What started the TCW?
4. How does killing Vosk end the TCW?
5. What exact role is the Federation playing in the TCW? (Besides just being the "good guys" and assuming that the UFP exists as we know it.)
6. Why have we never heard of the TCW in subsequent (previous) series? (I realize that it is because it was created for ENT, but if TPTB actually put some thought into this whole thing they should have come up with some way to cover that one.)
These and many more questions have been left unanswered and therefore, leave us hanging indefinitely. I doubt Manny Coto is going to want to touch the TCW with a 10 par-sec pole after all this, and I don't blame him.
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
-
Quote:
Star Trek: Enterprise is really the first Sci-fi show since Quantum Leap to use time travel as a setting rather than a plot device.
Nope. There was a series based off the movie "Timecop" called Timecop. In addition, there was a series that ran during the last year of QL called "Time Trax".
Quote:
Think of the TCW as an excuse for reintroducing God-like aliens to Trek. Daniels, Silik, the Sphere Builders, and Future Guy were all flawed Greek Gods interfering with humanity (and Xindity, and others) for their own logical or illogical purposes. Taken as that, the TCW is not an arc but the setting. There is nothing to resolve.
At least, I think that's what the intention of the TCW was.
The problem is that the creators of this didn't understand how these types of characters work in literature or in Star Trek, so they were ill-used.
I have always considered that Daniels was supposed to be the equivalent of the fantastical Q as a "super being" who would be a 3rd party commentator character. However, he was never allowed to fulfill the commentary part of the role.
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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Quote:
I have always considered that Daniels was supposed to be the equivalent of the fantastical Q as a "super being" who would be a 3rd party commentator character. However, he was never allowed to fulfill the commentary part of the role.
Exactly! What always bothered me about Daniels character was the lack of commentary. Remember that little thing called the Temporal Prime Directive? Does it not exist anymore? I realize that there was a war going on and drastic measures needed to be taken, but he made a habit of just whisking people through time and all of the sudden we Star Trek fans are just supposed to forget everything that Picard and Janeway and every time traveler has ever told us about screwing with the time line? Without any explanation?
...uh... um... but about commentary... yeah that's what I was talking about... Daniels just seemed like somebody from the 22nd century with a different uniform on. He never gave off an aura of knowledge or wisdom or having a clue as to what was going on. I didn't really want him to be another Q, but Q would take people, put them in situations, and watch... always commenting, always criticizing, alwya questioning Picard on what his next choise would be and spoon feeding him information as he needed it. You got a sence of wonder and mystery from John DeLancie's character. Daniels just came in, moved the crew around in time, and said, "deal with it."
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
-
Yeah - Daniels ended up essentially being a technological plot device akin to a time machine that could move Archer, et al., around from place to place and time to time, rather than being a commentary character who could make asides, not only about Archer and his personality or behavior, but about Humanity itself back in this era.
But see in order to pull that off, a writer needs to have a vision of what such a character would say or do to help flesh out some things about Humanity.
I mean, QL had Al. Al was nothing but the hologram of a real person (same type of commentary character). But as a character, each episode would have him not only flesh himself out, but he would be feeding Sam information about the person who Sam lept into, and most importantly, would offer up information about the era that Sam had leapt into and what the society was like. And he could do this because they had defined a character device where Sam wouldn't remember who he was (or would only remember a little of who he was - the "swiss-cheesed memory"), thus allowing Al to do his thing. Of course Al was skewed in a certain way, but then that didn't matter because he could either agree with Sam's point of view or contrast with it, depending on the story.
QL was a Donald Bellasario show. And I have posted before, that of all the people out there today, THAT MAN needs to take over the Trek franchise. He already has 2 sci-fi cult shows under his belt (the original Battlestar Galactica that he worked with Glen Larson on and QL), and has been doing another show - JAG, for the past 10 years. If anyone, he has been in the biz for a long time and knows how to deal with "network" types, but also understands old-fashioned story-telling.
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
This episode was like finding a live dog buried in the rubble of the Twin Towers.
So after three seasons, the ID of Future Guy is hardly more than Norm's wife on Cheers. How sad.
Surely, if the series survives, they will find a way to re-introduce this 'nemesis' of Archer. I think that background element alone kept me watching -- you never know when you'll find out who this creep is. Personally, I would've liked to have seen it be someone shocking and unexpected. Perhaps a nice twist would've been to have had someone from the MIRROR universe Federation cross over, knowing that events in our timeline dominated their's, and by interfering with time on our side, it would've change their history as well. It would also explain why the otherwise innocuous Xindi of our universe were re-engineered, perhaps to match the Xindi of the Mirror universe. As for that Future Guy: I'd've gone all out, paid the bucks, and had a Mirror Picard tampering with our history -- Patrick Sterwart and all.
That's one cliche that really I can stand to never hear again. Of course, I do work at a company where some managers do nothing but speak Dilbert-esque clichespeak, so I'm biased.
Great review though. I actually also thought the episode was Chinese Food Entertainment: good at the time, wanting more an hour later. Which is a pretty cliche comparison. ;)
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"Who are you, and how did you get in here??"
"I'm a locksmith, and... I'm a locksmith".
- "Police Squad"
While it appears that the whole TCW subplot of the series has now been apparently resolved, there's still one plot thread that's not been further addressed since the second season: Future Guy's identity, his involvement with the Suliban, and his quest for corrupting the timeline. In getting Archer and co. back home to the 22nd century, Manny Coto has overlooked this particular plot thread that needs to be resolved once and for all.
Deus did seem to like this week's ep more than Part I (much more than the AICN review anyway), but I personally thought they did a decent job wrapping up last year's threads and gave us a relatively exciting double-episode. I'm encouraged by Manny Coto's handling of it and look more forward to this season than the past ones.
Having said that, I do agree that (a) this weeks ep was better than last, and (b) that the big "reset" button at the end, aka the Archer-Daniels discussion, seemed a bit too neat-and-tidy, and made season 3 appear even more convoluted and pointless in retrospect:
Daniels: You fixed history!
Archer: Don't bother us anymore!
Daniels: Oh, alright......
(At which point Daniels sulks, then twitches his nose like Samantha from Bewitched, and everything goes almost back to normal...)
The effects were definitely better than usual, too. Not only was it cool seeing the Enterprise maneuver around the Chrysler building as it fired at the planes, but the big "welcome home" armada was a nice touch.
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I loved the last bit in ep2 where they were flying over New York, was preety ace, not something we will probably see again!
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"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!"
-Ace Rimmer, Red Dwarf.
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