OK, I've watched this off and on all day, and decided it's time to weigh in.
First, since I rarely post any more, let me introduce myself. I'm a pedandic pain in the ass. I say that because I find very hard to take seriously the arguments of someone who can't manage to spell even when he has multiple tries. Try to get a handle on that double post thing, okay? Since I'm a professor of political science (and occasionally wander over to the History department to teach Russian and East Europeaqn History) it goes with the territory. And since I have on occasion, also taught a seminar on ethics, I have been interested in the evolution of this discussion.
You complain about Odie's generalizations, but you seem to have made more than a few yourself. ZB, Americans did NOT invent racism, thank you very much. In fact, having spent months at a stretch in Europe, and in Germany in particular, working on my doktor arbeit, I can say with a good deal of confidence that bigotry is alive and flourishing on that Continent. Asia has it. Japanese prison camps were notorious for their treatment of westerners, as well as "inferior" Asians. Unlike Germany (sorry about this one, Odie) which does indeed teach the history of the war, Japan refuses even today to acknowledge its part in atrocities such as the Rape of Nanking, the Korean comfort women, the medical "experimentation" on live (sort of) POWs, und so weiter. Africa has it. Latin American has it. I detect just the tiniest whiff of anti-American bigotry from your own direction. Gee, is there a pattern emerging here? Could it be that wherever you go, there are bound to be a few jerks? The difference is whether or not you let the jerks get the upper hand and how far you are willing to go to prevent it.
Your grandfather's resume sounds most impressive, which in my mind only makes it worse. Why? Because he knew (or shold have known) better. He made a deal with the devil (metaphorically, don't jump down my throat) and believed he could keep his hands clean by selective participation. I imagine that his experiences in the war were a formative factor in his later development, and his determination to lead a productive and ethical life is informed in part by his understanding that he, and most of his countrymen, must share Germany's guilt.
My mother's family descended from the Lees and Taylors, including General Robert E Lee. I've never understood why the General gets a pass. The whole "America's most beloved General" thing mystifies me. He did the wrong thing (fighting to advance an immoral cause) for the right reason (loyalty to his family and his home.) That makes his actions even worse because he knew better. It was the classic no win scenario. Few of us are confronted with such troubling choices. Here in the US and Canada, it's often because the choice was made by our ancestors. They left their homelands for a variety of reasons, incuding a refusal to lend passive or active support to causes and ideas they deemed wrong.
There are two kinds of ethical obligations: utilitarian and affirmative. The affirmative obligation says it's not just enough to refuse to do wrong; one must actively (affirmatively) do what it right. And yes, that is indeed the source of the phrase affirmative action. Your grandfather fell into the trap of making tiny compromises with his conscience (I'll follow this order, but not that one; I'll be less responsible for the bad things happening if I don't become an officer). Refusing to engage in immoral acts while employed in an immoral enterprise doesn't get you off the ethical hook. Imagine making that argument for a criminal! "I didn't shoor the guard ot help in the bank robbery, I just drove the getaway car. And I stopped at all the red lights and never went over the speed limit and the way back to our hideout."
How much sacrifice do we expect of "ordinary" people? Should your grandfather have risked his life? His family? Deserted? Defected? That's not for me to say. But it can't be denied that he was navigating an ethical minefield, as were all the German citizens who shut their eyes and did nothing to stop evil even if they didn't actively participate in it.
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You're quite correct about the Japanese and the PM's recent visits to the so-called Tojo shrine certainly demonstrate yet again that Japan keeps trying to play the victim instead of actually addressing its atrocities. On the other hand despite Japan's numerous and brutal atrocities, there was no comparable plan of genocide in the way that existed in Germany. The Japanese were ruthless conquerers, the Germans were not out merely to conquer but to eradicate.
Germany was forced to come face to face with their crimes in a way that Japan wasn't and so Germany does teach it, but in a warped way that views Hitler as merely a dictator and his Nazi party as carrying out a secretive policy that Germans remained unaware of and that any country could have done if the wrong man had come to power. This kind of warped history that does as much as possible to shake off German responsibility for the atrocities of Germany is exactly what's on display here by trying to disassociate Germany from Nazism and to limit the responsibility to a small number of Nazi Party members rather than the millions who fought and died for Nazi Germany and the far larger number who supported it or stayed silent.
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Germany does teach it, but in a warped way that views Hitler as merely a dictator and his Nazi party as carrying out a secretive policy that Germans remained unaware of
That is simply not true. Before making claims such as this I would urge you to actually take a look at the history textbooks used at German schools and universities as well as German school curricula.
Sure, historians discuss just how important Hitler's role and that of his party were in the larger framework of things, but the prevailing opinion amongst historians is that he was just one of many factors that made the horror of the Third Reich possible.
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and that any country could have done if the wrong man had come to power.
Unless you believe that there is an inherent genetic reason for the actions of Germans (which would obviously be a racist explanation), there is no reason why something like it would not be possible anywhere given the "right" combination of circumstances and conditions. Which is why it is the all the more important to try to understand what exactly happened and why.
Jan
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I know Americans didn't event racism... I never said that, Europeans invented Americans. Too much to respond to and I've lost my interest in back and forth internet debating. Next time I will try and be as good as you though with my postings! Good thing we have people like you around to tell us about our mistakes and the like.
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Do you mean to say that you are "pedantic"? Meaning "[c]haracterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for book learning and formal rules" (Dictionary.com) . How can you claim to be pedantic when you MISSPELL the word? Yet then you go on to criticize someone else's spelling. I have to conclude that you must be joking. (Not that any of this relates at all to the quality of the episode of Enterprise...)
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I say that because I find very hard to take seriously the arguments of someone who can't manage to spell even when he has multiple tries.
A little smarmy for someone who can't seem to post his response in the correct thread. You make some interesting points, but childish comments like this undermine them. Especially since, if I don't miss my guess, DarExc sounds like someone who probably learned English as a second language. (Correct me if I'm wrong, DarExc.) I would think that a "professor of political science" who "taught a seminar on ethics" would be above such things.
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"You know what six movies average out to be really good? The first six Star Trek movies!" -- Fry, Futurama
This better not be 'the shape of things to come'..or S5 is not happening IMHO.
Mediocre episode at best. Not worthy of the kind of 'do or die' season opener we were expecting.
It's good to have you critiquing at least. The entire cast of Storm Front seemed drained of emotional expression, save T'Pol and as usual Tripp. T'Pol managed to give a solid performance amongst the statues. She is easily the best actor on the show. The cast performace as a whole could almost be described as wooden.
Argh! And the storyline is the classic reset button with Nazi's no less. Season 3 started strong and stayed that way through the entire season. I expected more of the same for Season 4.
Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.
John Milton (1608–74), English poet. Satan, in Paradise Lost, bk. 1.
"That is not to say that Storm Front isn't entertaining, indeed it often is though as with the season finale it increasingly moves over the weight of the material to Archer actually confronting the aliens in the thick of the crisis while much of the Enterprise crew stay on or around the ship and do foolish things such as running around in the middle of a war zone to blow up a shuttlecraft they could easily blow up from orbit or surrendering to troops with primitive weapons without stunning them all."
That made my head explode! ;-)
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I had to think this over myself too.
If I were thrown back into a hostile past, and unsure if I would ever return, I would want to keep my high tech gismos intact for as long as possible, because I'm not sure if I can ever get it replaced anymore.
Therefore, if a shuttle is highjacked and crashlanded, I'd try to recover it if I could, or salvage the parts. But only destroy the shuttle as a last resort to avoid capture by the enemy.
Cowbell.
This episode DEFINITELY needed more cowbell.
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I'm not sure which is worse: The fact that you posted this gag, or the fact that I actually got it. ;)
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"You know what six movies average out to be really good? The first six Star Trek movies!" -- Fry, Futurama
WE musn't get confused with Germans and Nazis, they are seperate people, there were many Dutch, French, Austrian, Russian, Ukranian, Romanian, British, American, Canadian, Australian, Indian, Japanese and many other Nazi's. Hitler himself wasn't even a German. The stupid thing about the talk of death camps in this is he talked about ti to a German army general, the German army didn't know about the camps as it was a SS thing so that people wouldn't find out and get disgusted. The Nazi's had no interest in blacks either, some even surved in the German army and had the swastika on their tunics in Africa and in Germany as flak gunners. Racism against blacks is America's problem. My grandfather faught for Germany in the army during WW2 and did a lot of good things, he is less of a Nazi than most people I know. This episode was full of inaccuracies towards the Germans and Nazis but they didn't care because they only wanted to make a bunch of heartless villans, this wasn't Star Trek at all...
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I just got back from Germany a few months ago. Sorry to break it to you DarExc, but MORE German people know about the concentration camps than just the S.S.
"My grandfather fought for Germany in the army during WW2 and did a lot of good things."
It sounds as though you're having an inner struggle. You're trying to find solace with regard to your grandfather's position during WWII. The truth is, your grandfather has a lot to be embarrassed about, as do all Germans during that era. If I so much as mentioned WWII to a Berlin native, they'd say to me, "Oh, that's ancient history." Sorry, but 60 years does not constitute ancient history. It's going to take centuries for Germany to overcome this stigma. Sad bud true.
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The truth is, your grandfather has a lot to be embarrassed about, as do all Germans during that era.
You have more to be embaressed about then he ever will. My grandfather is a hero and has been honoured by the German and Canadian militaries.
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WE musn't get confused with Germans and Nazis, they are seperate people, there were many Dutch, French, Austrian, Russian, Ukranian, Romanian, British, American, Canadian, Australian, Indian, Japanese and many other Nazi's.
Germans and Nazis certainly aren't seperate people. Germany was the home of National Socialism and the core of Nazism was German based and most Nazis were German. You may not like that but that's the fact. And unlike Spain, Italy and Japan; only Germany took upon itself the project of systemtically exterminating those races they considered inferior.
Finally the episode's characters repeatedly refer to Germany and German soldiers so your ultimate problem is with the episode and history, not with me.
The stupid thing about the talk of death camps in this is he talked about ti to a German army general, the German army didn't know about the camps as it was a SS thing so that people wouldn't find out and get disgusted.
That's simple nonesense and holocaust revisionism. The German Army most certainly knew about the camps, especially at the level of its leadership. To argue otherwise is lunacy considering that the German Army had units that were also involved in rounding up and detainig people in eastern europe and that much of the German military leadership were also Nazi party members and that Hitler in his radio speeches repeatedly made it clear what he had in mind for the jews. No one except a handful of courageous people who stood up to the Nazis were disgusted by it.
The Nazi's had no interest in blacks either, some even surved in the German army and had the swastika on their tunics in Africa and in Germany as flak gunners.
As did most slavs but given time Nazi Germany would have likely turned its attention to the other inferior races as well. This is a common theme in most scifi alt history books about ww2.
My grandfather faught for Germany in the army during WW2 and did a lot of good things, he is less of a Nazi than most people I know.
And what did he do to oppose Hitler? Right. Moving along.
This episode was full of inaccuracies towards the Germans and Nazis but they didn't care because they only wanted to make a bunch of heartless villans, this wasn't Star Trek at all...
Yes apparently in Star Trek Nazi Germany were the misunderstood heroes. *sigh*
I agree that this episode was mediocre, but I've come not to expect more lately. It would be a lot more interesting to me if they fulfulled more of the promise of the first season and explored how the ST universe we know came to be. For example, he Vulcans portayed as not entirely saints was an interesting intital take, but then exagerated to meaningless distortions of Vulcan character after the first season.
The only thing that would salvage this episode would be a non trite & predictable outcome -- for example, if the ones who wind up restoring the timeline are the evil aliens themselves, because they found in the future a Nazi Earth was a far more dangerous & efficient war machine than a Federation Earth -- or even what if it turned out, the natural course of history really was a Nazi victory, and our version is the RESULT of the "evil aliens" changing history to help the allies to victory, for that same reason.
I don't really expect to see anything like that, though. However, it would be nice with some more story & development, and less "Save the earth!" melodrama. That's just not sustainable in the long run.
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Well once this whole Nazi/alien/timeline mess is finally handled and done with, your wish of a more prequelesque show will come into fruition - with the Spiner and Vulcan arcs on the way!
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“People who are willing to give up their liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
-Benjamin Franklin
Okay, here goes:
Interesting directing. Did the director get free license to experiment a little more? To tinker a little bit with the "formula" set down by B&B? The reason I say this is that during the action sequences I enjoyed the new style ... rapid zooms and so forth (ala Lucas in Ep. II).
Interesting storyline. I like alternate histories. The White House with Nazi flags on it was killer! I also loved the bomb damage on the roof and corner of the building. Nice touch. An interesting bit of detail.
The F/X? Enterprise in space is nice, but the scene of the shuttlepod being hit by flak was TERRIBLE. I'm not sure what happened there.
The writing? Passable. Nothing special. Like many have said, there's a lot to be tied up in only 2 storylines, and Coto was handed this arc by B&B. That being said, it isn't too terrible. In fact, I actually enjoyed it. When you're dealing with a "temporal war" with many fronts, what better theater of action than WW2 and the nazis? ENT has taken a hit from people for using Nazis after Voyager did it, but face it, Nazis are the best villains and are always a nice touch in a movie or a show (i.e. Hellboy, Raiders of the Lost Arc, Rocketman, etc.). I'm not complaining like others are. I like the alien nazis and I'm not afraid to admit it. Hell, I wouldn't care if Coto carried this storyline a little farther. That being said, I know Coto wants to finish it off fast and move on to other things this season.
In short, this ep. is about as good as anything in Season 3. Bakula is still portraying Archer as a tough no-nonsense Captain, and that's a nice change from Seasons 1 and 2. Good Job, Scott.
I like that Merriweather was used a bit more ... let's hope we see him more often this season.
I'd give the ep. an 8 out of 10.
Timmer33
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Bravo, Timmer33!
I applaud any and all who dare to brave the scowls of the online trek community for actually saying something good about Enterprise. I think O. Deus and most other online trek reviewers have unjustly given unfavorable reviews to Enterprise episodes for the past couple of seasons.
Now, I'm not the kind of Trek fan to simply smile and drool at anything Paramount puts on the screen. Enterprise has indeed had its share of failures and mistakes. However, I don't believe "Stormfront, Part I" should be included in such company as "Rajin" or "North Star."
The F/X were good, the direction was well done, and the acting was quite enjoyable as usual. The story, of course, is where this episode breaks down a bit.
Many critics have pointed out that time travel is a worn out vehicle, and I would agree. However, I don't think it fair to blame "Stormfront" for this. It all goes back to "Broken Bow" which started all this Temporal Cold War (TCW) hogwash. We should all thank our lucky stars while watching "Stormfront" because now the end of the TCW is in sight.
I think many people are confused about the reset button too, which is understandable. Timetravel gives me a headache too. But in this episode Daniels is NOT suggesting that by destroying Vosk's temportal conduit that the TCW will cease to have ever existed, as some have confusedly assumed. No, by destroying the conduit the Enterprise will have thwarted Vosk's plan to return to his future (say the 28th century) where he and his followers will not have the Federation, the Sulliban/shadow guy, etc. to contend with. This would leave Vosk and his aliens (as well as the Enterprise) trapped in an altered 1944. Honestly, I don't know how they're going to reset this one. I would be curious to hear someone explain how destroying the conduit would reset the Trek timeline and return the Enterprise to its own time. Anyone want to take a stab at it?
I enjoyed "Stormfront, Part I" and would give it a rating of 6.5 out of 10. I'm looking forward to Part 2 and the end of all this TCW garbage. I'm even more eager to watch these new mini-arcs, especially the Vulcan one. I can't wait!
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Bravo, Timmer33!
I applaud any and all who dare to brave the scowls of the online trek community for actually saying something good about Enterprise. I think O. Deus and most other online trek reviewers have unjustly given unfavorable reviews to Enterprise episodes for the past couple of seasons.
Now, I'm not the kind of Trek fan to simply smile and drool at anything Paramount puts on the screen. Enterprise has indeed had its share of failures and mistakes. However, I don't believe "Stormfront, Part I" should be included in such company as "Rajin" or "North Star."
The F/X were good, the direction was well done, and the acting was quite enjoyable as usual. The story, of course, is where this episode breaks down a bit.
Many critics have pointed out that time travel is a worn out vehicle, and I would agree. However, I don't think it fair to blame "Stormfront" for this. It all goes back to "Broken Bow" which started all this Temporal Cold War (TCW) hogwash. We should all thank our lucky stars while watching "Stormfront" because now the end of the TCW is in sight.
I think many people are confused about the reset button too, which is understandable. Timetravel gives me a headache too. But in this episode Daniels is NOT suggesting that by destroying Vosk's temportal conduit that the TCW will cease to have ever existed, as some have confusedly assumed. No, by destroying the conduit the Enterprise will have thwarted Vosk's plan to return to his future (say the 28th century) where he and his followers will not have the Federation, the Sulliban/shadow guy, etc. to contend with. This would leave Vosk and his aliens (as well as the Enterprise) trapped in an altered 1944. Honestly, I don't know how they're going to reset this one. I would be curious to hear someone explain how destroying the conduit would reset the Trek timeline and return the Enterprise to its own time. Anyone want to take a stab at it?
I enjoyed "Stormfront, Part I" and would give it a rating of 6.5 out of 10. I'm looking forward to Part 2 and the end of all this TCW garbage. I'm even more eager to watch these new mini-arcs, especially the Vulcan one. I can't wait!
I think we probably need to give Coto and Co. a mulligan on these 2 opening episodes. He was handed a lemon by B&B and told "Go ahead and fix it." Coto, I firmly believe, will do much better in the long run. Let's not worry about this, and save any real criticism (or gasp! PRAISE) for the upcoming mini-arcs.
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I couldn't agree more. Coto was told to finish an arc that just didn't work in 2 episodes. In a way, it'd almost be funny if he botched it on purpose just as a testimony to how cruddy it was and to show how his are superior.
I don't actually think he did that though. I just think he was handed crap and told to make it into gold.
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Quote from BackwardGalaxy to MarkMat:
Coto was told to finish an arc that just didn't work in 2 episodes. In a way, it'd almost be funny if he botched it on purpose just as a testimony to how cruddy it was and to show how his are superior.
Coto would be a fool to do that. A professional always does their best, because the reputation earned is theirs.
There's so little story development in Storm Front that it could fit in 10 minutes, with tight writing. This shouldn't be a two-parter, because it gives viewers two chances to be turned off by lame villains and the bug-eyed Velour Vulcan.
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Shatner pens Kirk's return
You didn't give this ep a rating. The fields at the top of your review are blank ... or is it just my browser?
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I don't see it either. Maybe it's still back in 1944 and hasn't trickled through time to get to 2004 yet. 
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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He forgot to send in the ratings for his various measures, so I'll put them up when I receive them.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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I still think they're caught up in a temporal loop.
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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I'll say, overall, 6.
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"I was told this ship was the pride of Starfleet. I find it is small, and unimpressive."
"Funny, I was about to say the same thing about you."
Archer and Gral spar verbally in: "Babel One."
Simply TERRIBLE television.
Lousy script. No excitement.
Another uncharismatic performance from Bakula.
It's over.
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That was Bakula's best performance yet.
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Hoshi: I was hoping you'd put up a fight.
T'Pol: I'm surprised you're not exhausted from all the beds, you've jumped into, recently.
"In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II"
...first of all, it seems as though O. Deus's comma key on his computer is either stuck or broken. This review seemed rather disjointed. (Much like most of Season 3.)
But on to the important stuff...
For once, this feels like an episode that not only screams for a reset button, but it might actually be fun to push it. Sort of like VOY "Year of Hell Pt. II," where Janeway rams Voyager into the Krenim timeship and changes history. Granted, time travel stories have pretty much worn out their welcome, but you gotta admit, the scene in the trailer of Enterprise flying over the Empire State Building with phase cannons blazing was kind of cool.
(How do they get the ship to fly in the atmosphere, anyway? I guess they figure it's so beat up, not much more can hurt it...and if they succeed, it won't matter anyway.)
The rest of Deus' points are well-taken, though. Let's hope that, in subsequent episodes, we're all treated to more thought-provoking drama with well thought-out characters who mean something to the audience, rather than cardboard cut-out villains of the week who don't give "Our Heroes" a chance to grow and learn, even in defeat. And a few more episodes where the lesson learned comes with a cost. Happy endings shouldn't always be the norm.
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A generation which ignores history has no past and no future. -- Robert Heinlein
PCLinuxOS
falcon
Granted, Coto was handed his plate late in the game and had to write himself out of an odd situation in the ninth inning. I'm certain that had he more time to focus on his story, he could have come up with something a bit more distrubing or realistic.
My biggest problem lies with the continual, overused time travel device. Since TOS we've been dealt this card way too many times. I can remember in "The Naked Time," how Sulu is amazed to see his chronometer(sp?) running backwards, and the look of awe on Kirk's face when realizes that time travel is possible. The continuing overuse of time travel episodes over the years has simply worn out its welcome. Like O Deus says, we don't feel real danger in "Stormfront" for the very reason that it plays out like a holodeck episode with the reset button waiting to be pushed. His explaination that the 7 million people killed on earth can't be undone is unfortunately an incorrect assertion. Since time travel is being used now in almost every other episode, why not just go back in time and prevent the initial Xindi attack? To use time travel so often undermines its effectiveness.
I think if anything, perhaps something should permanently change when Archer finally completes this inane mission. Even something simple, like a uniform variation or perhaps a couple of missiing crewman to show that time should never be tampered with.
Enterprise needs to return to its primary mission of exploring the unknown. I applaud Coto for wanting to integrate some TOS aliens and concepts, but PLEASE let's do it without any further time travel.
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For a time travel story done RIGHT, download the latest "Star Trek New Voyages" episode In Harm's Way. Sure the acting is amateurish, but the story and the effects more than make up for it.
Highly recommended!
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, cigar in one hand, favorite beverage in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming WOO HOO - What a Ride!"
this is what happens when you get a late renewal and everybody's rushed back in for writing, production, and filming.
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On another note, I was at Toys-R-Us this weekend (daughter's b-day) and they were selling Captain Archer action figures marked down to $3.50. Is that a bad sign for the franchise, that the merchandise is being remaindered?
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GET A LIFE, will you people? I mean, for crying out loud, it's just a TV show!.... You've turned an enjoyable little job, that I did as a lark for a few years, into a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME! -- William Shatner on Saturday Night Live (1986)
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