RE: Explaining the "No Female Captains" thing. | Report this post to moderator
By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 06:40:59 on Jul 26, 2004

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Okay, I really didn't need to see that picture. I've just eaten. :-)

LOL

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Now, on to the reply.

Quote:Well, the fact that other countries have women doing so, most notably Israel, means it's not like it's impossible. ;-)

That is true. And in looking at the link you referenced, I believe the US military is pretty much in line with those other countries.

They don't have the kind of military infrastructure that we have however. The closest might be China (just from sheer size) or Russia.

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According to that report, if a woman wanted to be the commander of an aircraft character, she could. Aircraft carrier commanders (other than in times of war)

"Other than in times of war"... Hmmmm... "Other than" = "not allowed". ;-)

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typically hold the rank of captain (which, in the other services, would be equivalent to colonel, which many women have attained). Personally, I think that would be pretty cool. But as I stated before, my belief is that, until the command structure of the US military allows more women into its upper echelons (in other words, disbanding the "old white male" club), this will not happen.

And the issue continues.

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I had not seen that report.

Well it's been pretty much a biological fact since at least when I was back in high school taking genetics. And obviously well before. Something about that "Y" chromosome, which is considered "incomplete". LOL!

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And 7.5 per 1000 live births is pretty high. But finding that one sperm that is compatible with the egg is a crapshoot, at best.

Well... there's plenty of it and of course, there's always that "invitro fertilization" option.

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It's possible that, in the future, techniques could be developed that allow doctors to determine whether one small sperm is compatible with one egg...and that could, theoretically, allow hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of new babies to be created within the span of days or weeks. This could, obviously, allow the planet to be repopulated within a very short time if we were to destroy ourselves in our idiocy.

"Logan's Run". LOL

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But would you want to babysit that many children at once? :-)

Think "Logan's Run". ;-)

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Now, when it comes to "Turnabout Intruder"...

I agree with you that this was probably Roddenberry's finger to TPTB at NBC, but I wonder if that was what was originally envisioned.

I still think it was an attempt to go back to his original concept of a female Number One. But considering that the current "Number One" was Spock, that would be too complicated, so it was a what the hell and let's make her Kirk instead, and thus "female captain" (with a plot device that Kirk's "mind" is inside her).

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I wish I could find out when this story was first developed. I believe it probably pre-dates the 3rd season cancellation by several months (just as "The Omega Glory" was considered as the second pilot, but wasn't filmed until season 2). I think Roddenberry might have developed this story as an allegory for the struggles that women still endured in the late 1960s. (Ironic, given that Uhura was nothing more than a glorified switchboard operator during much of the show's run.)

Well, I've quoted the commentary from Shatner regarding that episode in spots in this thread... Some other blips include one where Shatner was responding as part of an interview (as opposed to doing the narration), where he says:

"So there were times when I was handed a script, when, uh, you know -- 'Two Captain Kirks'. There was one day I was handed a scene, and it said 'And the woman enters his body'. And I thought 'The woman....how do I do that?. And what woman, and why and where? And where did she enter his body? So those were the ones I remember and probably become my favorite episode."

(where his tone of voice was facetious...lol)

And another snippet of an interview of him during that ep (which belies a posting that Steve has here where Shatner had claimed that he was "never sick"):

"The things I had to do on Star Trek, were so unusual for most of the times and I was having so much fun... It was the best job that I had had up to then. And it was steady and I was making good money for the time and I loved all the people around me. As we say 'It was a great gig'. On the last show, I recollect having got the flu. We weren't going to stop filming why Billy had his flu, I'll tell you that. So I staggered into the studio every day, and they'd bring out a bed, a cot. And I'd lie on the cot. And then they'd say 'You're on'. And I'd get up and say my lines and then I'd fall back. And I think I probably got the flu because I was so disappointed that the show was over."

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But I tend to think that, perhaps, when Arthur Singer wrote the teleplay, he missed much of the "up yours" that Roddenberry was trying to convey. That's where the execution problem comes into play.

Yeah - actually, some of it could have been rectified with having Lester-as-Kirk be permitted to wear a uniform in an attempt to show that "she" was really "Kirk" taking control of the situation - including during the Kirk-as-Lester courtmartial of Spock when Lester-as-Kirk was testifying. But unfortunately this was not to happen and the viewers merely saw a somewhat docile, calm "woman" and then saw Shatner playing a woman (in a rather exaggerated fashion), rather than seeing that the actual "woman" (the actress) WAS the "Captain". Shatner stole the scenes with his acting and making Janice Lester truly insane-acting, so that's the only impression left of a Lester for viewers. Meanwhile, the symbollism of the "woman Captain", is lost due to not identifying the actress as really being "Kirk" (by slapping a uniform on her as a means for the supposed "real" Kirk to "take charge"). But it's a shame that I expect that this would have raised too many "censor" questions. ;-)

I mean, here is a shot of "Lester-as-Kirk" standing next to Spock:



At this point, Kirk's "mind" is inside the body of Lester during the courtmartial that is headed up by Kirk-as-Lester.

Now imagine that instead of the dress, she had a uniform on, with Captain's stripes (because she was supposedly "Kirk"). I think the "symbollism" would have been underscored for what was being attempted and was "not allowed" the first time around, but would manage to get around that restriction in a different way. ;-)

But oh well. The general reviews of this ep for years and years will remain the same - "Janice Lester was an insane psychotic bitch" and other such nonsense, rather than that she was aggrieved because of "the times".

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And that's also where Kirk's final words are so ironic..."If only...if only..." That episode, done well, could have been a harbinger of a potential 4th season, but by the time it aired, NBC had already pulled the plug. And I think the finger in the eye of the Peacock network missed its mark.

I still think it's a last laugh for those who can see it, but unfortunately how it was done sortof did the opposite. That's why I say that if they had allowed the actress to put on a uniform - which actually, would have required she wear the male version of it with pants (similar to "The Cage" where the uniforms were all the same for men and women - tunic and pants... ;-)), THAT might have helped put the symbollic gesture out there, but also would have made for some strange questions beyond those that the ep was most likely generating.

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