RE: Explaining the "No Female Captains" thing. | Report this post to moderator
By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:29:52 on Jul 25, 2004 | (1)

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Maybe I had a brain freeze, but I guess I'm not quite getting your point there.

You of all people, who speak in symbols, miss what I just wrote? For shame. ;-)

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I said I of course have no problem with a female captain in ENT.

And I said that in this society, we're not ready for such.

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In fact I like the idea and I really don't care about any contiinuity "violation" of Turnabout intruder . I also like Capt. Janeway, and for the most part I liked VOY.

Indeed. Many people here disagree and hurl epithets daily about her. So why bother with any more as any new ones will be similarly lynched?

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Quote:No. We need to START with Humanity. And better, we need to start with THIS website.

That's a good thought but sexism in starfleet just doesn't fit into the Star Trek future.

Yet the B-plot in a TOS "Balance of Terror", where a Lt. Stiles rants and raves about Spock, DOES "fit"? Or was THAT marvelous revelation a COMMENTARY on how things haven't completely changed yet, even by the 23rd century?

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Quote:It was WRITTEN by him MaxPower. Which is why in that spacebeluga thread that I posted a link to below, I argued that it was his "up you" to NBC.

Well, story by Roddenberry, teleplay by Arthur H. Singer. But whatever, my point is just what I said, it contradicts Star Treks ideals. Whatever Gene's reasons for this, it is still true.

And you miss the satire of the entire thing? It's amazing. ;-)

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Quote:And EVERYTHING presented in this episode as a statement of "fact", whether "medical" or "psychological" - everything "scientific" and thus based on hardcore "provable" information, indicated that NO SUCH SWITCH OCCURED.

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are saying there.

Most men don't. When you watch the episode, during the story, Dr. McCoy does test after test after test on both Lester and Kirk. And at the end, he concludes that there was absolutely positively cross my heart and hope to die "nothing wrong" with either of them.

And both Spock and McCoy conclude that the only way they are going to be able to remove Kirk-as-Lester from command, is to have "facts". And the "facts" aren't there. And the only things that they really have left are their opinions regarding a "behavior change" of both Lester-as-Kirk and Kirk-as-Lester, and Spock's "mind meld" with Lester-as-Kirk (where Spock realizes that Kirk's "mind" was inside Lester's body)... Although from the purely scientific and "objective" standpoint, one can easily dismiss Spock's assertions about Kirk's "mind" being in the body of a woman, as this should be considered the "supernatural". And such a technique is EASILY comparable to the implausibility of say, the testimony of a "wizard" in a Circus sideshow who peers into his crystal ball and describes what he sees, presenting THAT as supposed "factual evidence", for some court of law. The "wizard" would be laughed out of the courtroom. ;-)

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Well really, isn't she pretty wacky before the transfer?

No. In fact, she was very calm and quite coldly logical. She faked her sickness in order to set up the scheme and managed to have it so that McCoy was out of the picture in favor of of her collegue Dr. Coleman. Then Coleman could help her carry out the plan while McCoy never gets chance to figure out that she had no "radiation sickness" or whatever, because he never gets chance to do the more extensive tests necessary to determine what was really wrong with her, if anything at all.

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Rushed was the wrong word. I guess I meant maybe Gene wanted to do this type of story and didn't have enough time so he had to make it the way he did, which was to contradict the Star Trek utopia. Sheesh it was just a theory ;-)

Sheesh and I offered what Shatner noted on my Sci Fi SE tape about the whole production of the episode. ;-) And I'll put some of it here:

"This last episode of the original Star Trek, aired on Tuesday June 3, 1969 at 7:30 pm. It's Nielsen Rating was embarrassingly low. After the last day of shooting, the starship Enterprise, pride of the United Federation of Planets, our undefeated lady, our home for 3 years, was degradingly dismantled. The major elements of the bridge were donated to the Theater Arts department of U.C.L.A. Many of the props and costumes were stolen. Little did anyone know, of the resurrection that would be in the making within a few years."

And:

"Well... the final frontier had finally been reached on January 9, 1969, our last shooting day. Looking back I remember feeling very sad that the series was finished. Some of my colleagues had more mixed feelings about the long haul that we had been involved in for over 3 years. We had a party. We all tried to make the best of a bittersweet situation. We said goodbye to these folks who had indeed become my family. At that time we actually thought that Star Trek was over and out of our lives, forever. Who'd have guessed that at that moment, what we were involved in, was just the beginning of an ongoing epic. I for one feel extremely proud and thankful to have been part of it and, as you can see, the legacy lives on. Till next time, I'm William Shatner."

And note that the issue of "sexism" and the rejection of such, was a big theme in TOS "Charlie X", ie., they had "been there done that" in the first season. When Charlie Evans smacks Janice Rand on the behind, he eventually gets a "lecture" from Kirk on why that type of behavior was unacceptable. This was BEFORE any "Sexual Harrassment" law was put in place in the U.S., which didn't happen until some 20+ years LATER.

So this is why I say that the whole ep of TOS "Turnabout Intruder" was done with a distinct purpose. The symbollic placing of a "female Captain" on this show.

My goodness, how can people NOT see the actress Sandra Smith (a female) who BECOMES "Captain"? The fact that Kirk's "mind" was supposedly "inside her" is a SILLY PLOT DEVICE. There was NEVER any "proof" that his mind was really there other than Spock saying it is. The voice for Lester's "body" doesn't suddenly "change" to become a male voice. Lester's body doesn't suddenly grow a 3rd leg. ;-) The woman's body remains. ;-)

And the viewers like you keep watching Shatner do her and you COMPLETELY MISS Sandra Smith doing him. And I think this is because theoretically, if they hadn't kept Smith in a "house dress" type costume and had actually put a uniform on her - ie., have her-as-Kirk go back to Kirk's quarters (or go to a quartermaster) and get a uniform and "take charge" AS "Kirk", THEN THEN THEN it would be more "obvious" to you and the rest of the viewers because you would see what? A "woman", with a uniform on, "in command" (with the plot device that she is "Kirk"). Something that the censors REJECTED the first time around in the first pilot, "The Cage". ;-)

So "up you", I'll PUT a "woman in command" here anyway and call her "possessed" with the mind of Kirk. ;-)

Poor execution of said "message"? HELL yes. But then be too obvious and the chances would be that it would be sent back because "women can't be in command" in this society, even if symbollically.

They belong in the kitchen or ON THEIR BACKS making babies and THAT sentiment remains TODAY.

So the show finally gets to put in an episode, something that had been rejected in the first pilot. ;-) And make note that TOS "Turnabout Intruder" was the ONLY EPISODE of the 79, where Nurse Chapel's hair was BRUNETTE (just LIKE the Number One character she had originally played in "The Cage", where when the show finally went on the air, Barrett dyed her hair to become a platinum bottle blonde, supposedly to hide the fact that she was the previously rejected actress as "Number One"). You have to look at that thread I linked to where O. Deus and I had a rather bizarre debate. ;-)

See, this whole ep is just like this:



where people who look at the above picture the first time see either one version of the image OR the other. And it's difficult to get them to see the alternate version UNTIL someone points out the "visual queues" that make up that OTHER image that is in that picture. And that is what I'm trying to do here and what I was trying to do in that spacebeluga thread.

So what do YOU see in the above picture Maxie?

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Anyway, to sum up: A female Captain on Enterprise is fine by me. Any continuity issues here are non-issues IMHO.

And the presence of one will no doubt generate massive rejection by the same people who rejected a Janeway for 7 years so why bother? ;-)

God forbid if we had a Captain Rachael Garrett of the 1701-C for more than one episode. ;-)

And since this one is supposed to be "fun and sexy", rather than just being a woman (where women only come in 3 flavors in Star Trek - whore, matriarch, or Ripley), we should have quite a season!

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But I see what you are saying about Gene saying "F**k you" to NBC. Perhaps ENT having a female captain is an odd circle of life kind of "F**k you" to NBC LOL.

Depending on what happens this fall with the ratings and UPN and how they harrass TPTB, look for stuff like that. ;-)

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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701

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