The first big move that has to be made before any progress can be made on "Star Trek XI" is the immediate dismissal of Rick Berman from the Star Trek franchaise. Only one man can save the Star Trek series (at least the series of films), and that man is the one and only Nick Meyer!
Oops... the site was running slow... it posted twice. Sorry...
I realize some people have touched on this subject... I've read a few of the more recent postings and I have to say, some of you are right on. The one guy who said there's something wrong with TNG... well, I don't agree with that at all. There's something wrong with the executive staff for TNG. Namely, Rick Berman. He's screwed TNG over so many times, its a joke to see he still has a job with Paramount. Out of all the Star Trek series, I feel the only one worth watching is ST:TNG. It feels more like what space travel is all about. And the characters are unique and developed in their own way. Who wants to watch people on a starbase who get to ride around in the Defiant every now and then? Or people who get lost and the whole series is their "voyage" home?? I don't even want to touch Enterprise. That ship looks as good as ones in TNG, DS9 & VOY... yet it exists before TOS?! And that Enterprise was horrid! Too bad the stories and the crew aren't as shiny and polished.
Now this business with a "prequel"... AS THE ELEVENTH STAR TREK?! Please... I think you missed the prequel by, oh, ten movies. Yes, I know Star Wars is doing it... and they've had varied levels of success and disaster with it. But then again, the Star Wars franchise is doing exceptionally better than Star Trek's. What we'd need is a totally fresh perspective on Star Trek XI, instead of the dismal brain farts from Berman. For instance... at the end of Nemesis, there's a sequel sitting right there when B-4 starts humming/singing "Blue Skies". They brought Spock back, why not Data? Plus, there's a strong element from ST:TNG that they've never used in the films, which is retarded since this character started, popped up every now and then, and ended the TNG series... Q! Q has the power to bring Data back, and Q is a reoccuring character in not just the TNG series, but in DS9 too. (Maybe Voyager, but I don't know about that... never watched Voyager.) So, how can you have this key character in more than one series and not have him as one of the main characters of a Star Trek feature film?! Its insane... but so is the idea for a prequel movie that bombs on paper, and certainly will in theaters.
I think the TNG crew are feature-worthy... they just need a good production staff, a really good storyline, and this time, Q needs to be involved. I mean... it has potential. When Sulu became the captain of Excelsior, he helped Kirk and the Enterprise in Star Trek 6. So, that'd be cause for Riker, Troi, and to actually SEE the Titan in a Star Trek film. And at the end of Nemesis, Picard, Geordi, and Worf were still aboard the Enterprise. Dr. Crusher was supposed to go to Starfleet Medical, but she's done that and come back before. I don't see why she couldn't in a new movie. Worf did. So, everyone would be there. And B-4 would still be there as well... not that it would matter if Q brought Data back. Or, possibly Data's "memories" would begin to overtake B-4... B-4 is useless anyway. So, there's a wide range of possibilities. Wesley and the Traveler haven't been used either, although it was quite rediculous to see Wesley in a StarFleet dress uniform at Riker & Troi's reception when he's no longer in StarFleet. Oh well...
The main thing is... get rid of Berman. That'll fix the problem by at least 80%.
I can't believe all of you big babies wining about the latest Star Trek movie. You want a new movie but you don't like the topic or the cast (even though you don't know them).
Many movie watchers find it appealing that the end of a movie isn't written before the entire storyline, you know what I'm talking about! Nobody can really die because the are the 'original cast' (yes I know both Spock and Data died, but they don't really count because Spock came back and they left a door soooo wide for Data to come back through that he may actually bring a few red shirt security guards back from TOS with him.)
I for one have been waiting for them to come out with a movie where they actually have to spend a few minutes on character development instead of having some big party to bring 'the crew' together again, and again, and again. The individual characters should have their own lives and commands and should not be required to rejoin each other for the benefit of our entertainment. After all, why would the captain of one ship jeopardize his command of his own starship which he (e.i.Sulu)should care so deeply about, to helm a ship from which he previously served on. For us it's that fantastic ship 'The Enterprise'. For him it's 'that ship before I got my command'. Face it, in life, sometimes people move on.
Likewise, I'm also looking forward to the uncertainty of not knowing that everyone that I like will come back from war. You know, that is how life really works right? Not everyone comes back!! Sometimes people really do die in battle, even though the UFP apparently trains their people to be the absolute best shots in the galaxy and nobody else can hit one another even with an automatic weapon.
As far as the timeline and all that crap goes, all bets are off. Open your narrow little minds to what may have already occured in the future (or the past from the future). Kirk screwed with the timeline, Sisco screwed with the timeline, Janeway screwed with the timeline, and Archer has screwed with the timeline. The script can always be altered to incorporate one of the many instances of these type of occurences affecting the methodology of how the Romulan War was fought. This may very well one day also explain why Archer and his crew don't wear the fruity bright colored paper tear away shirts from TOS.
As far as your opinions on B&B, they are ONLY your opinions and are not based in reality, as a matter of fact, nothing here is based in reality! These are people just like you and me. Their stakes are higher, these movies can make or break their entire careers. I'm sure these are things they think about every time they read some geek's sorry idea of what a script should be. There is a reason they got the job and you didn't. Granted it MAY ONLY BE because you didn't apply for the job, but if you didn't apply then you can't complain. Good decisions or bad, they have to live with it more than you do.
It is also my opinion that their careers and lifes are a little more important than your SMALL view of what kind of movie they should be making.
GET A LIFE AND STOP WINING!
Will wonders never cease? It's simply astonishing. I just don't see where they are getting the impression that there's a market for more Trek. After the ratings continue to slide for Enterprise and the dismal failure of the last two films, I just don't understand why they're doing this.
Except that Paramount is starting to really slip when it comes to their feature films. They haven't had a film make over 200 million dollars since M:I-2 and I think they're desperate for a working franchise. Most of their attempts at summer blockbusters recently have been laughable, especially when compared with what Fox, Warner Bros., New Line and Universal have been putting out lately. Since the Tomb Raider films have gone nowhere, they want something and since Trek is still around in some form or another, they think they'll eventually get it right sometime.
As for the story itself, I think it's something that I'd personally be interested in. I'd prefer that they more or less ditch what thrown together history they have for the Romulan Wars, but since the introduction of the never-before-heard-of Remans, I'm sure they'd be fighting them face-to-face instead of the Romulans to keep that little tidbit in line with previously established information. I don't know if they're going to try and do some LOTR trilogy about the war and the eventual founding of the UFP, but it's possible that could be some inspiration.
I have felt for some time now that an original film-only crew might be the way to go, especially if they could net some character actors that don't demand much in the way of pay, perhaps get one fairly well-known actor as the lead and you might create enough curiosity there that it could turn into a modest hit.
I wish them luck, but darn it all if I just don't see their mindset when it comes to this.
The "franchise" is in the waning stages of an insurmountable illness.
But in all seriousness, let us take a step back from our obsession. Star Trek is a phenomenon that has far outlived is usefullness and resourcefullness. The latter is perhaps the most relevant object of this post.
Where exactly can they go now? Star Trek is dead on so many levels it defies reason that it continues to trudge onward. Let us look objectively at the present state of "Trekdom" (whatever the hell that is exactly).
Apparently, the idea of an eleventh Star Trek feature film is not a myth. After the combined events that lead to Star Trek: Nemesis being the fiasco that it was, I am somewhat surprised to find that an eleventh movie is under consideration so soon. I say somewhat surprised as this is the same outfit (Paramount) that decided releasing Nemesis a week before a Harry Potter film was sound judgement. It doesn't really get any more obvious that those in charge of this franchise are so out of touch with reality that reality just can seep in, even though the dam has burst into a million shards.
Of course, the eleventh film has to be about something "Star Trek" ... well, maybe not, but it might be a good idea. Let us look at the options, as they were.
ST: TNG. Raking in the lowest domestic box office in the history of Star Trek does not make the TNG crew a viable option. Whatever the excuse for the debacle, business accumen warrants that something about TNG is broken and must be avoided. Sorry folks, but I wouldn't touch TNG with a ten foot pole at this point. Financial investment is the issue here.
ST: DS9. Still for some reason, the bastard child of the Trek Universe, this property is the least likely of all to be made into a feature film. "Just not fan friendly." "Too obscure." "Too dark." "Not Star Trek-y enough". These are just a few of the catch phrases which mire this edition of Star Trek at the bottom of the barrel. The love it or hate it stigma of this series makes it a no-go. That and the almost total abandonment by Berman mean no film. But besides that, what exactly would it be about? The wormhole again? The Dominion? Would it have to take place at DS9 even? Perhaps not, but then ... it wouldn't be DS9 would it?
ST: Voyager. Uh, what would this be about again? The crew has returned home. Its crew no doubt scattered to the four corners of the universe. Remember, some of the most interesting cast weren't even StarFleet officers, so how would we work them into a script? 7o9 isn't a commissioned officer. The EMH is just a hologram (and a dated one now). Half the remaining cast are Maquis refugees, and whats left isn't that interesting. What exactly could the movie revolve around? I'm sure you could fabricate something, but it would be stretching the space-time fabric well past its tolerances ... if it hasn't been already.
ST: Enterprise. Well, frankly, despite what anyones personal feelings about this series are, its irrelevant. This show is on life-support in the worst way, and doesn't even begin to deserve a feature film. The cast outside of Bakula are unknowns. The show hasn't garnered much attention even among Star Trek faithful. And its so poorly concieved that anything that resulted would be a bizarre mish-mash of amalgamated Star Trek, regurgitated into a mess of non-descript blandness as they try to play it safe. No thank you ... I didn't like it on TV, I'm certainly not going to pay to go see it in a theater.
ST: TOS, Captain Sulu Time-line. While this may have been feasible at one time, I think the idea is past its prime. I don't doubt George Takei's ability to put on a costume, but I do question his viability at this stage in his career. They've neglected the Sulu character for so long that I doubt tossing him into a feature film and watching it drown in disinterest is going to be what it takes to jump start a dead horse. How can you realistically expect to start a new franchise with an actor who's in the stratosphere of his life expectancy?
ST: TOS, Captain Kirk rides again. C'mon people. Everybody loves Kirk, but we have to just let it go. They killed him already for cryin' out loud.
So guess what? They've painted themselves into a corner. A great many things have had to go wrong in order for them to get to the point we've reached. The only thing they could reasonably concoct would be a "new" cast and crew and set it somewhere between Enterprise and TOS. The only "canon" idea left that hasn't been thoroughly raped and pillaged is the Romulan Wars. So ... why not! With glee and raucous abandon, this is the best they can come up with. Are you surprised? I'm not.
The problem with basing a movie around this idea has been stated by others, but I will recap the most obvious and illuminating: According to lore, the Romulan Wars were fought with interstellar missiles and without either side confronting the other. Well, shucks, that sounds about as exciting as watching paint dry. So obviously that'll have to be convienently forgotten about during the initial draft ... which will alienate the faithful ... who'll just happen to be the only people who care enough at this point. Combine this with a completely new cast of possibly unknown talent (and I use the term hopefully) and you have a recipie for utter disaster which threatens to make Nemesis look like a blockbuster by financial comparison.
The problem may have been created by Rick Berman and Brannon Braga's indiffrence to the writing on the wall the last several years, but the truth is the problem is much bigger than the two of them times ten. This franchise has been ground into the maelstrom that is incest and greed for so long that I fear nothing can pull it beyond the black-hole-like grip of death. We're circling the drain. We're preparing for the dirt-nap. Whatever cute phrase you can come up with, I fear it is befiting of being transmutted into axiom status.
Lack of vision brought us to where we are. A collision with reality will make us finally move on to something else.
BTW, using Romulans as villans in any abortive eleventh movie will be a first, not a second. The Picard clone and Reman insurgents were the villains in Nemesis ... not the Romulans. Small detail ... :)
Peace
...I will never watch another episode of first-run Trek. Period. Until Paramount/Viacom come to their senses and understand this, they have permanently lost someone who used to consider TNG and DS9 appointment television.
And I sure as hell won't be shelling out any more money to watch BermanTrek at my local multiplex. Another prequel with characters nobody has ever heard of before? The Romulan Wars? Only hard-core Trek nuts who have memorized every line of dialog from Balance of Terror will know what the hell it is. Expect an opening weekend box office of about $1 million. Not to mention it will have to be hamstringed by Roddenberry's incredibly wacked idea that the war occurred without humans ever actually seeing a Romulan! NEWSFLASH! This was STU-PID! Not everything in TOS was a good idea! But you can bet that if they try to get around this very dumb obstacle, Trek Zombies will howl in protest that "canon" is being violated, just like they did when the Ferengi showed up on Enterprise.
This isn't like Star Wars, where Lucas is king and totally in charge and answers to nobody. He has destroyed his franchise with 1 mediocre and 1 incredibly shitty movie and nobody can do anything about it.
Berman, OTOH, doesn't own Trek, and theoretically has to answer to the Paramount/Viacom bigwigs. It is incomprehensible to me that he and Braga are still in charge of Trek.
I apologize if this subject has been brought up in one of the other 137 posts, but I have a question: why is everyone so convinced that this prequel film is being developed by B&B? Yes, Berman has said that he is "involved" in the film's development (I think he said something like "deeply involved"), but there's been no mention of Braga's involvement that I'm aware of. In fact, Braga says "there is a prequel feature in development," not "we're developing a prequel feature."
Ordinarily this might seem like wishful thinking, but the AICN post back in March that originally broke this story (here) clearly stated that B&B are NOT developing the movie -- that instead, Jordan Kerner (of...ugh..."Snow Dogs" fame) is in charge.
In light of this, and the lack of specifics in B&B's comments, I really wonder if they're involved much at all. It could very well be that Paramount is giving the prequel movie to an entirely different team, and that Berman is being consulted in the development (possibly only to avoid continuity conflicts), but without any real power. We all know his tendency to overstate things in interviews; maybe this is another example? Or is there other evidence of B&B's involvement that I'm unaware of?
If true, I'm cautiously optimistic, not because I think that the "Snow Dogs" guy is the most obvious choice, but because there's the possibility that we might actually see some non-Berman Trek for the first time in 13 years.
Cranston
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Never before have things been so much the way they are now.
A stand alone Star Trek feature film just won't work at the box office and Paramount execs will probably ask the million dollar question: If fans have such little interest in Enterprise why would they go to see a film that will have no connection to any of the other series? Sure, Star Trek fans know all about the Romulan Wars but will a mainstream audience care? Will a film without any of Star Trek's established characters have any chance at success?
As a movie of the week on UPN it could probably pull a decent number but only Star Trek fans would flock to theaters to see a film about the Romulan Wars (and after NEMESIS there's no guarantee of that happening either). If they're hoping to expand Star Trek's core audience this isn't the way to do it.
Everyone take a deep breath. Paramount will very likely reject the story and tell B&B to go back and come up with something else for an 11th feature.
This movie isn't going to happen, folks.
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Hopefully Paramount will see the sense in dumping B & B's copycat of George Lucas' idea. Berman inherited great ideas, scripts and concepts from Mr. Roddenberry, however it seems that he has developed disdain for the great creator of the Star Trek franchise. Enterprise could have worked, but Berman seems to lack the eye for choosing the talent that Trek fans have come to know and like, instead opting for a single piece of eye-candy. Not-to-mention his idea to attach a rock score instead of some dirivative of either of the Star Trek franchise themes.
Secondly, a flick teaming the STNG crew with the DS9 crew would work with a very strong and fast paced storyline, the right music and mood and a whole new threat to everyone, from outside the Alpha and Delta quandrants--with a strong cameo from the Voyager cast narrowly escaping this unseen-to-us threat and getting a message off just before the Old Janeway arrives aboard Voyager with her plan to get the Voyager crew back in one piece to their timeline on Earth.
I'm not a Hollywood script-writing genius, but I believe I know what works for Trek and I think Berman has become stale and is only holding on simply to put more money in his bank account. Too bad for us Trek fans.
After-all, one's love for what they do shows in their work, ala Roddenberry, Spielberg, Jonathan Frakes, Sam Raimi and such...
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G. Bjay
{"Beam Me Up"} Did Kirk say that?
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By that logic, your argument is sensible. If people weren't interested in seeing 'Nemesis,' an action-packed film starring the cast of arguably the most popular Trek series, why would they see a show which will at most have a cameo by Scott Bakula (or worse, Dwight Shultz!). Even if you take into account the overbearing 'The Two Towers' competition and the possibility that the film wasn't promoted properly/enough to get noticed in the holiday shuffle, it's still plain to see that the core fanbase has been shrinking dramatically. How else could a mediocre Jennifer Lopez comedy top this franchise? The film's script needed another draft, the last two television series needed to be more than ratings hemmorages with no critical buzz and even though it was 4 years since the last film, 'Nemesis' needed to be perceived as an event rather than another symptom of oversaturation. TNG was the 'in' phenomenon of the early to mid nineties and it peaked as Ron Moore said with the TIME cover for 'Generations.' The franchise saw DS9 cementing fan and critical loyalty to that show, but it was still a shrinking audience in the dying syndication market, 'First Contact' and Voyager briefly got the public excited about the Borg and then catsuits, but 'Insurrection' and Voyager's erratic writing reestablished the dwindling returns. 'Enterprise' performed similarly to the last two series in the ratings, but had an even more dramatic fall in the ratings as UPN and even TV Guide seemed to give up on it. One is tempted to say 'Voyager' should have been delayed several years, and Paramount should have resisted the urge to flood the market with product and maerchandise, but who is to say Trek still wouldn't have diminished? It's a testament to the strength of the premise and universe created and expanded upon that it has survived this long and not died the death of many other fad show phenomenons from Nielsen cemeteries past. Only 'Law and Order' and 'CSI' can match Star Trek's ability to spawn successful drama spin-offs, and the achievement is allt he more remarkable given the nature of sci-fi TV - there's never been a huge market for it, and it is riskier than doing a show about doctors, lawyers or cops in the real world.
This turned into a sermon or something... I think my point was going to be that ordinarily you'd be right, an eleventh film would make no sense, and my sum up of why turned into a rant.
But I will assume that in addition to being an accessible war-story (I still say 'Insurrection' should have been a mini-DS9 crossover with an action-heavy Dominion War story), this fresh start will be the perfect opportunity to cast some Hollywood stars with wider appeal than Messrs. Christopher Lloyd, Christopher Plummer or Laurence Luckinbill. We've all heard the stories about how plans to get Sean Connery, Eddie Murphy and Tom Hanks in various films fell through, so I expect now Paramount will take this chance to really make sure someone with similar star power will be signed on.
After reading this little interview I'm pretty excited that all those people who have wanted something with the Romulan wars, will actually get it! This ought to be the best news for a long time. The keepers of the Star Trek franchine have obviously listened to you. There are going to be a movie with exactly the concept you wanted all along.
For those who seem to be unhappy, well, what can I say... Some people will be unhappy no matter what is decided. If you belong to the unlucky category this time around, please consider to take a deep breath and get over it. Just like I got over some dissapointments in the past. It's not that difficult, and not even worth mentioning so I'll skip talking about that.
The encouraging part here, is how B&B are doing an effort to keep Star Trek on course, meaning 2 things: Balance the wishes of the fans, with the parameters of Roddenberry's vision. Sometimes these two things seem to contradict. Actually there is no perfect solution to it, when we go into detail. But when we see the big picture, it's encouraging that B&B are TRYING (which is more than most producers would do, and B&B are better suited because they have worked personally with Gene) well they are TRYING, and those fans who are loudest on the Internet get the attention they want.
All in all, this project sounds promising. Of course, there is no guarantees of success; it's showbusiness and it's plain business and the world is not a safe place. But, along with Braga's notes about ending the TCW, it's more obvious than ever, they listen to you! Now I sincerely hope you're return their friendly gesture and give them a bit of praise. :-)
It seems evident that most people have no interest in prequel Trek, just like myself. I don't watch ENT. Its just not that interesting. The romulan war/Birth of the Federation would probably work as 2 seperate movies. But I would prefer seeing that on TV, not in theaters. I have always thought that Trek would do very well with made for TV movies and specials. Trek just doesnt have any staying power at the box office.
We all used to enjoy going to the theaters not just to see a Trek movie, but to see our favorite characters. But when these guys who run the franchise give you a movie with little substance, its hard to justify spending the money to see it.
Its kinda funny too, but the most recent successful box office Treks are the ones that used Lucas ILM effects. The ones that didn't use ILM (Final Frontier, Insurrection, Nemesis)werent the best films money wise. I wonder if they will catch on to this.
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!?
I really hate Star Trek fans at the moment, I mean we've wanted to see the Romulan Wars on screen now for god knows how long. Now they are fucking doing it and you guys are still bitching and moaning. Did I miss something at the last "Hate Star Trek Club" meeting!? What is it you want now, do you suddenly want aimless space wanderings again where the characters don't grow or change!? Argh!
Sorry, I'm bitter, I really want this movie to go on and do well, I want to see the Romulan Wars, mostly I want the fans to care again!
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"I was told this ship was the pride of Starfleet. I find it is small, and unimpressive."
"Funny, I was about to say the same thing about you."
Archer and Gral spar verbally in: "Babel One."
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Quote:
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!?
I really hate Star Trek fans at the moment, I mean we've wanted to see the Romulan Wars on screen now for god knows how long. Now they are fucking doing it and you guys are still bitching and moaning. Did I miss something at the last "Hate Star Trek Club" meeting!? What is it you want now, do you suddenly want aimless space wanderings again where the characters don't grow or change!? Argh!
Sorry, I'm bitter, I really want this movie to go on and do well, I want to see the Romulan Wars, mostly I want the fans to care again!
Great strategy. Yell at the fans, insult them, and then wonder why they don't care about Trek anymore. Here's a hint. Because it sucks. "Fans" of Enterprise are the minority, not the majority, simply as evidenced by the legions of people who turned out to watch the pilot and first few episodes then totally abandoned it. Why? Because it sucks!
B&B have completely exhausted all fan goodwill and I know tons of former fans who simply won't return until they're gone. As in completely, hands-off, disconnected from all things Trek. Sure, people have wanted to watch the Romulan Wars for years, but no one really has any faith left in B&B to pull it off. Why? Because everything they've done for the past decade has sucked, continues to suck, and will most likely suck well into the future.
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Sorry, I really am bitter at the moment, I probably did offend someone, but it wasn't my main intention.
Changing the writers isn't going to magically make Enterprise or the next movie any good, even with new writers, especially new ones who have no exposure to the universe and couldn't careless about continuity, I seriously doubt any of the old Trek fans who have deserted the show are going to come back.
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"I was told this ship was the pride of Starfleet. I find it is small, and unimpressive."
"Funny, I was about to say the same thing about you."
Archer and Gral spar verbally in: "Babel One."
I hear George Lucas will be available to direct soon. He's proven he can do just as good as B&B at driving sci-fi franchises into the ground. Better yet, he's proven he can do it in just 3 prequels, just what Paramount ordered.
I really wish I had some optimism about Trek. I really do. There just doesn't seem to be anything bright on the horizon.
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"Let's make sure history never forgets the name Enterprise."
Jean-Luc Picard, Yesterday's Enterprise
Alls I know is that for the second movie in a row they won't be getting any money from me at the box office. I'll catch it when it's on Netflix or HBO.
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"Now the Senate is looking for moderate judges, mainstream judges. What in the world is a moderate interpretation of a constitutional text? Halfway between what it says and what we'd like it to say?" - Justice Scalia
Trek is not going to survive much longer if these two will have their way. I always thought there was a god somewhere.......
...I'm sorry, but nowhere, ANYWHERE does it say that Enterprise is around when the Federation is founded. Archer is involved with it, we do know that, and we've been told that ENT will be involved with events leading up to the foundation of the Federation, but not actually involved in the foundation itself. I also point out that in Zero Hour, Daniels shows Archer a point in history that he identifies as the founding of the Federation, and said that it was something like 8 or 12 years in the future. Clearly, if ENT only has 1 to 4 seasons left, that would mean that there is no way they can show us the actual Federation founding. That would even leave enough time to have the series end in 1 to 4 years, have a 4 to 8 year window for the Romulan Wars to occur, and then have the Federation come into being as Daniels showed in his "time jump" thingy.
I admit, I was kind of hoping to see some Rommie Wars in ENT, but I'm sorry guys and gals, I find it very hard to consider any of this bad (or non-cannon) news.
-Lem
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
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"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
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As of right now, Enterprise is in 2154. The founding of the Federation will happened in 2161. The year was established in the TNG episode "The Outcast" and was reaffirmed in "Zero Hour" where Daniels said, "a little over seven years from now." The most widely accepted years for the Romulan Wars is 2156-2160. That would put the start of the Romulan Wars during Enterprise's tentative 6th season.
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"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek: The Beginning
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
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I might be off 10 years... but I thought there was an episode of TNG where they were playing a poker game and it was Deanna Troi's favorite version called 2151 because that was the year of the founding of the Federation. I always thought it was 2151, but if Trekman says it was 2161 I'm willing to believe him (if "The Outcast" was the episode I'm thinking of). But I always thought (for about 10 years now) the Federation was founded in 2151 according to Trek canon. It always struck me as funny that Enterprise was positioned where it was in the time line if the Federation was supposed to have already been founded by then. I just chalked it up to more of B&B playing fast and loose with continuity. If it's 2161 it makes more sense.
Not that I think a prequel movie showing the Romulan war is going to be a good thing. As far as I'm concerned, there should be no Star Trek feature film until the television series part of the franchise is up and running well. For that to happen, Enterprise needs to fade away, Kate Mulgrew needs to be quiet about a Voyager movie because that will never happen, B&B need to disappear, and the television Star Trek needs to be restarted, under new management with some direction and understanding of the fact that Star Trek is about more than space battles, special effects, aliens of the week, Borg, time travel and paradoxes. Star Trek is about the HUMAN adventure. When someone gets that understood, and makes Star Trek focusing on human emotions, characters, how we would deal with things in the 24th century in a good way (as opposed to just shooting things) and providing good quality television drama, then maybe an audience would be there for a Star Trek feature film.
Right now, any feature film, regardless of the story, premise, or actors, will have Star Trek in the title, and will be categorized as such and will not garner more of an audience than Nemesis did. In my opinion, Nemesis was a great movie, with a bad director who took out a lot of the character stuff in favor of action. But I'm a Star Trek fan. Who saw what could have been, and watched the deleted scenes on the DVD and said "Why was this deleted?" Non-Star Trek fans, are not going to see a Star Trek feature film, even if it's about a huge war. It would be like making a Dark Angel major motion picture. The series is no more. It wasn't a huge hit with a huge following. Why would non-fans go to see a movie based on it? Yes, all you people can say this prequel idea isn't attached to any series that currently exists (supposedly, but I think Enterprise will figure into it somehow). But the name Star Trek will be in the title, and when you're looking to go see a movie, and spend $10.00, if you're not a Star Trek fan, you couldn't care less if it's based on a TV show currently running or a brand new idea. It's Star Trek. Non-fan, won't see it.
Fix the television part first. Get those ratings back to where they were for TNG. That's why First Contact was such a success. Timing. TNG was doing well in syndication, Generations did ok, and word of mouth helped. Enterprise's ratings are the same as WWE Raw and WWE SmackDown. There's no wrestling major motion pictures coming out. Sure, The Rock is making movies. But so is Patrick Stewart. Get B&B out, get a new TV series on there that actually has some drama, evokes some emotion, and challenges the viewer, and you'll get your ratings and your eventual major motion picture. Right now any Star Trek film (barring the return of Kirk and Spock) would fail and fail miserably.
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I might be off 10 years... but I thought there was an episode of TNG where they were playing a poker game and it was Deanna Troi's favorite version called 2151 because that was the year of the founding of the Federation. I always thought it was 2151, but if Trekman says it was 2161 I'm willing to believe him (if "The Outcast" was the episode I'm thinking of).
The scene you're talking about is in "The Outcast". She say's that the next game is going to be called "Federation Day". Worf asks why and she explains that since the Federation was founded in 2161, Aces, Twos, and Sixes are wild. I've seen that scene several times in the last year.
It's good to have the DVD's :)
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But I always thought (for about 10 years now) the Federation was founded in 2151 according to Trek canon. It always struck me as funny that Enterprise was positioned where it was in the time line if the Federation was supposed to have already been founded by then. I just chalked it up to more of B&B playing fast and loose with continuity. If it's 2161 it makes more sense
Yeah, when I found out that Enterprise was set in 2151, I knew it wasn't a coincidence that they put the new series just ten years before the founding of the Federation.
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"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek: The Beginning
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
I think in some ways a Romulan War storyline would work best on the big screen with a sufficient budget to do it justice.
Of course I have a few qualifications on that statement.
Firstly telling a story like the Romulan War in one movie which uses unfamiliar characters and settings would be foolish. It needs to be told as a trilogy in order to give the story the proper amount of time it needs to develop.
Why not tell the story on the small screen? Two reasons. The budget would severely limit the scale of the stories that are being told with a lot of the larger scale stuff having to happen off screen. Also as is often the case on television the Romulan Wars would become an arc that dragged on and on with no real resolution in order to keep viewers coming back to see what happens next in the storyline and when the story finally was resolved people would have given up caring which was pretty much my experience with the Xindi arc not to mention the Temporal Cold War storyline.
So how would I plot out the trilogy? I think the first movie would open with scenes of a Romulan invasion and conquest of an alien world with troops landing, blasting cities into rubble and rounding up survivors.
Then the movie would switch to a council chamber on Vulcan where the leaders of the Vulcan race would discuss the Romulan Empire's expansion and how it is encroaching on Vulcan territory. That hostilities between the Vulcans and the Andorians are severely crippling the Vulcan's ability to defend their borders against the Romulan incursions of their territory. After some discussion the council reaches the decision that a treaty must be forged between the Vulcans and the Andorians at all costs. Further discussion leads to the conclusion that the treaty talks must be held on neutral territory and it is eventually decided to contact Earth and request the assistance of humanity in the treaty talks.
Starfleet dispatches a ship - the Pegasus - to Vulcan and Andoria to collect their respective Ambassadorial parties and convey them to Earth where the talks will be held.
On the return trip to Earth the Vulcan Ambassador is murdered - the identity of the killer unknown. Unable to determine the identity of the murderer the Pegasus' captain is forced to let the matter slide for the time being and decides to continue to Earth after speaking with the Vulcan Ambassador's second in command who is now in charge of the Vulcan delegation.
Nearing Earth the Pegasus encounters an alien vessel requesting to dock. Once docked the captain meets an alien (not Romulan) that claims to be a representative of the Romulan Star Empire and requests to be involved in the treaty talks as an Ambassador of the Romulan Empire. The Vulcan ambassador does not like the idea but the Andorian ambassador is extremely interested in what the Romulans have to say and insists that the Romulan representative be allowed to remain. Although reluctant the captain agrees to allow the alien to remain on board as a diplomatic representative of the Romulan Empire. That decided the Pegasus proceeds to Earth and the treaty talks begin.
Up until now the Romulan incursions have only been against Vulcan territory and the Andorians ask why they should be interested in Vulcan concerns. The Vulcan Ambassador suggests that once the Vulcans fall the Andorians will be next. The Romulan representative interjects stating that his people have no interest in Andorian held territory and that the Vulcan systems they have taken are merely the Romulans reclaiming systems that were always theirs and that it is in fact the Vulcans who were intruding on Romulan territory. The Romulan representative presents documents to back his claim. The discussions continue in this vein with the Vulcans attempting to convince the Andorians that a cease fire and perhaps even an alliance against the Romulan Empire would be in both their best interests with the Andorian Ambassador seemingly apathetic to the Vulcan's claims and the Romulan representative trying to persuade the Andorians that the Romulans have no hostile intentions towards them.
While the talks continue the Captain of the Pegasus remains as an observer of the proceedings although a human Ambassador oversees them. Meanwhile the senior officers of the Pegasus continue to investigate the murder of the original Vulcan Ambassador and come to a shocking conclusion as to the killer's identity.
Just prior to the discovery of the identity of the killer the talks have broken down and the Andorians have retreated to the building assigned to them. The human Ambassador having left not long afterwards to try and persuade them back to the table. Shortly after that the Vulcan delegation returns to their own building and the Captain of the Pegasus is left alone with the Romulan representative. After an awkward silence the Captain offers to escort the Romulan rep back to his quarters and they leave together. AS they are making their way to the Romulan rep's quarters a violent shaking and loud boom rock around them as the building where the Andorians are housed goes up in flames wiping out the entire party.
After this events rapidly come to a head as the identity of the murderer of the original Vulcan Ambassador and the individual responsible for the destruction of the Andorian party is revealed to be the current Vulcan Ambassador - actually a Romulan, although no-one realises this since at that time it was unknown what Romulan's looked like. The murderer is apprehended and believed to be Vulcan. The Andorian government on hearing the news immediately withdraws completely from the talks and even contacts the Romulans offering them an alliance against the Vulcans and humans - who they blame for failing to protect their representatives. The Romulans accept and an alliance is formed against which neither the Vulcan nor the human forces combined can stand.
The movie ends with a combined Romulan and Andorian fleet attacking a distant human colony world.
That's how I see movie one in a Romulan War trilogy ending - with a cliffhanger. Movie two would involve a series of desperate battles between the opposing forces with the Vulcans and humans steadily retreating and a side-plot involving the Pegasus and crew attempting to find a way to drive a wedge between the Romulans and the Andorians. Eventually they discover evidence that the Vulcan Ambassador was not a Vulcan but in fact a Romulan agent that had undergone cosmetic surgery in order to appear Vulcan. It turns out the Vulcan Ambassador wasn't even a Romulan merely a member of one of their many conquered species. This evidence causes some of the Andorian leadership to have doubts about their alliance but not sufficiently so to end it. The war continues with the Vulcans and humans steadily losing world after world to the encroaching forces.
Meanwhile an Andorian General - Sh'ran - leads combined Romulan/Andorian assaults on human colony worlds. On the tenth captured world Sh'ran visits a Romulan prison camp and is sickened by the brutal treatment of the human prisoners and is shocked to discover gas chambers where the majority of prisoners including men, women and children are being executed. At first he convinces himself that this is an isolated incident but driven by conscience he investigates further and is horrified to discover that it is standard practice. Upon learning this he retreats to his ship and makes a beeline home to Andoria where he presents the facts to his leaders who berate him for leaving his post and dismiss the facts out of hand, having Sh'ran imprisoned for desertion. Disgusted by his leaders Sh'ran is rescued from his prison by loyal members of his crew and once back on board his ship he decides that his leaders are corrupt and must be overthrown. He gathers an army of followers and a fleet of ships with captains equally disgusted by the Romulan atrocities around him and leads an assault on his home world's capital. After a climactic battle Sh'ran captures and imprisons his world's former leaders and makes public the true facts of the war. Shock spreads all over the world and throughout the Andorian territories at the news of the Romulan atrocities which the Andorian government had been suppressing. With overwhelming public opinion on Sh'ran's side the rest of the Andorian military forces comes over to his side and he leads a massive Andorian fleet to the site of the current battle between the Vulcan/Human and Romulan forces. The Andorian fleet takes the Romulan fleet by surprise and smashes them apart from behind leaving the Vulcans and Humans to mop up the left overs. The battle over Sh'ran contacts the Vulcan and Human generals and proposes an alliance to end the Romulan threat once and for all. End movie two.
Movie three would be fairly obvious I would think. We've had the buildup and this is the climax. Where the great alliances that sow the seeds of Federation are formed and the largest battles to date are fought as the Allies recapture territory after territory. Until finally two thirds of the way through the movie the war ends and the Romulans withdraw to their old territories to lick their wounds. The humans, Vulcans and Andorians are too weakened to pursue and rather return home in triumph. The war is over but the cleaning up has just begun. Many billions of lives were extinguished and buildings and cities destroyed. There is much rebuilding to be done and alliances to be forged. Muc later we see for the first time a flag raised above a memorial of those who died in the war Andorian, Vulcan and human. A flag that will one day become the standard of the United Federation of Planets but for now represents the welding together of three races whose alliance has been forged with the blood of those who died in battle.
What do you think?
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What do you think?
Well, no person from the future Federation can ever see a Romulan as Spock says in Balance of Terror that no one has ever seen one up until the Romulan Commander appears on the viewer...that's one thing. So, you can't have a Romulan Ambassador...
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Quack!!!
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What do you think?
Well, no person from the future Federation can ever see a Romulan as Spock says in Balance of Terror that no one has ever seen one up until the Romulan Commander appears on the viewer...that's one thing. So, you can't have a Romulan Ambassador...
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Quack!!!
What I absolutely do not comprehend about the BBrain Trust is why they don't make some Trek TV movies. The movie franchise only got started based on the demand for TOS. There has been nowhere near that level of demand in recent years.
So why not make a few TV movies every year? They could do one-shots like a DS9 or VOY followup. They could also do other stuff like this new prequel idea, and a "Captain Sulu" story. They could introduce entirely new characters, and then spin off related book series and merchandise. And they coould probably make these movies for the cost of an ep (give or take).
These could be promoted for cheap on UPN or wherever, and even get some free publicity from TV Guide, ET and media sources, since such a movie would be a "TV event." So they'd save all the money spent on cinematic advertising and promotion.
With Trek currently on life support, the time has come for the BBrain Trust to consider making Trek TV movies.
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GET A LIFE, will you people? I mean, for crying out loud, it's just a TV show!.... You've turned an enjoyable little job, that I did as a lark for a few years, into a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME! -- William Shatner on Saturday Night Live (1986)
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I can tell you exactly why it won´t work. Because Star Trek is about the characters, not about the story, the FX, the budget etc. Of course those are vital parts of a good movie but in the end it is just about the characters that we have come to love over the normaly many TV-Series-Seasons. And a Star Trek with completly new characters just will not do !! At least not for me cause the deep, round characters are what I want to see on the big screen, may it, in my case, be DS9, RNG, ENT or even Tos (what I know is impossible to this date).
Greetings
Christian
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Live Long and Prosper
Berman & Braga must have sold more than their souls to the devil in order to keep their jobs this long. Nothing else explains Paramount/Viacom's continued refusal to throw these hacks out on their asses and bring in new leadership.
YIKES!!!! YIKES!!!!!YIKES!!!!! YIKES!!!! YIKES!!!!! YIKES!!!!
They thought 'Nemesis' did poorly at the box office.
Just wait until the final numbers come in on this.
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"With hope and virtue, let us brave once more the icy currents, and endure what storms may come. Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back nor did we falter; and with eyes fixed on the horizon and God's grace upon us, we carried forth that great gift of freedom and delivered it safely to future generations."
"This is our chance to answer that call. This is our moment. This is our time - to put our people back to work and open doors of opportunity for our kids; to restore prosperity and promote the cause of peace; to reclaim the American Dream and reaffirm that fundamental truth - that out of many, we are one; that while we breathe, we hope, and where we are met with cynicism, and doubt, and those who tell us that we cant, we will respond with that timeless creed that sums up the spirit of a people-Yes We Can."
"Yeah, I don't do cowering."-Barack Obama
I think it could work for a couple of reasons.
First with no big name actors the film budget will be lower than Nemesis so it may actually turn a profit.
Second being a Trek movie, many fans will go see it out of curiousity at least. Exactly how many is something they are going to have to gamble on.
Third if they put it out when no other big movies like LoTR are playing, casual movie goers may just check it out. My freinds( non trek fans) and I were desparate for a movie worth seeing from Feb-March and certainly would have seen this movie if it was out.
But I also think it sucks because as of now it appears as if Berman is heavily involved. Plus I wanted the Romulan wars to be featured in ENT. Also they clearly need to wait several years for people to forget Nemesis.
But I'm just really not interested in this idea, TNG'S 5th movie would suit me just fine - its what I want to see - Nemesis wasn't a good enough farewell, and Riker's departure leaves more stories to tell.
The beauty of Star Trek is that rich character background you love and know when you sit down to watch a movie. From the way the films have been going (i.e. little focus on characters and more action) I don't see how a totally new cast could be padded out enough during the length of a movie - perhaps they'll managed to pull off a Lord of the Rings or an X-Men (great stories, excellent action, but also amazing character development) - but I doubt it.
Maybe I'm just that second wave of nostalgic fans, as TOSers were with TNG, I am with whats to come - one thing is certain, the prequel series hasn't really worked, so why should the movie?!
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"I don't see how a totally new cast could be padded out enough during the length of a movie..."
That makes no sense. Movies come out every single day featuring characters movies-goers know nothing about.
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The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
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Yes, that's true, but this is Star Trek and Star Trek fans are the only audience left for Star Trek and, my, what a fractured fanbase it is.
Once again Trek fan finds an excuse to bitch and moan
First you wanted the Romulan Wars, now that they are thinking of throwing that in to a movie, you complain.
Which is it with you people? Either you want something or you don't.
This has to be the first good news I've heard about STXI.
This is a big mistake, Paramount. Why go with a prequel when the current prequel series has low ratings? Why not use the existing cast of RECOGNIZABLE - and famous (Patrick Stewart) - characters?
Furthermore, in ENT's timeline, the Romulan Wars should be occuring soon. So how will you have a movie that takes place the same time as the series? And if the series is about the formation of the Federation (as stated by B&B, and as foreshadowed by Ent's ZERO HOUR) then how can you show the formation of the Federation and skip over the Romulan Wars?
It really is mind boggling. I just don't see any way of doing the Romulan Wars without showing the ENT cast. After all, there is only one NX class ship, and Archer is the captain.
Moreover, how can you fight a war with the Romulans without any advanced ships to wage that war?
The Romulans failed as villains in NEMESIS. Why use them again?
Let's see another TNG movie. By then ENT will be over and the Romulan Wars can begin. Berman is jumping the gun on this one ...
... and perhaps "Jumping the Shark" as well.
Timmer33
After STV everyone was saying that Star Trek films were finished. They turned around and did STVI. A great movie.
So why is TNG getting treated like they have cancer or something? They could still do a good movie with the TNG cast by getting someone who is not incompetent as Berman and Braga to write the film.
Getting rid of the TNG is a BIG mistake. Why don't they get another chance at a movie like the original cast did. Why let TNG go out on a bad note?
Recasting an entire cast for this "Star Wars: Battle Of Geonosis" is a huge MISTAKE.
Why Paramount is going to bankroll this movie with no established cast is suicide!
Flood Braga's website and tell him to get off the crack pipe!
Assuming this is all legit (I'd be surprised if it isn't), I am cautiously optimistic. The idea does present various complications, such as the fact that the RW are supposed to occur in ENT's timeframe, but yet the movie isn't going to be about the ENT crew. So does mean ENT will end next spring as a lead-in to the RW? But if that's the case, then how could ENT found the Federation, since the Federation is supposed to be founded as a result of the RW?
Lots of questions, but that doesn't mean they aren't going to be answered satisfactorily. Although I find it a little strange that after 4 years of ENT, which has not been enormously successful to say the least, they would essentially "try again" with the exact same idea: a prequel with a new cast/crew. Only difference is this time instead of the TCW, it's the Romulan Wars. From a business standpoint, it would almost seem like they'd rather go as far from ENT as possible for the next new ST production rather than essentially do the same idea over again on a bigger scale.
That said, I am intrigued by the idea of an all-new cast of characters. I think that has always been a good idea for the movie franchise. Since they undoubtably will want new costumes, ships, etc etc. it seems weird that they would choose an era that is supposed to be the same as ENT, so it'll be interesting to see how this pans out.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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Quote from Steve Krutzler:
From a business standpoint, it would almost seem like they'd rather go as far from ENT as possible for the next new ST production rather than essentially do the same idea over again on a bigger scale.
Faced with a seeming no-win situation on the TV/movie front, e.g. by contractual obligation to peddle Berman Trek, a conniving and optimistic studio Executive might believe that Paramount can hedge/steer its upcoming options. When ENT S4 fails, and if the new prequel movie shows promise at the box office, then ENT could be readily (and wisely) replaced by the new movie characters and storyline for TV Star Trek circa 2005-2006.
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Kill Bill - The Bride
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That said, I am intrigued by the idea of an all-new cast of characters.
The problem is: If people won't turn out to see the Next Gen cast -- with all their umpteen jillion episodes and movies behind them -- and well known -- what makes you think people will turn out for a new cast?
TV is fertile ground for new casts...not a movie.
If the next movie bombs like Insurrection and Nemesis, you can kiss Trek goodbye -- at least on the big screen.
Personally, I'm for letting sleeping dogs lie and let Nemesis be the swansong. I know it wasn't the proper farewell...but dem's da breaks. They had their shot at a proper farewell and blew it.
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Quack!!!
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If the next movie bombs like Insurrection and Nemesis, you can kiss Trek goodbye -- at least on the big screen.
The thing is, people said the same thing about Nemesis too. And yet there they go again.
The "fact" of the matter (and it's probably nothing the studio would confirm though) is is that Paramount is desperate for a viable franchise. The direction of the Tomb Raider films didn't pan out like they hoped it would into some 21st century Indiana Jones and they trying to get something going. They haven't had any big hits in a long time and I think they're willing to go with anything. Anymore with these genre films, a small opening and then strong sales on DVD are more of what they want.
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The problem is: If people won't turn out to see the Next Gen cast -- with all their umpteen jillion episodes and movies behind them -- and well known -- what makes you think people will turn out for a new cast?
That's probably one of the exact reasons people DIDN'T show up for NEMESIS. Well, that and the 5-days before LOTR release date. People are intimidated by having to know all about the chars from their "umpteen jillion" episodes. Whereas a new cast would be the first introduction to everybody, not just the Trekkies.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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Um, yeah...I guess we'll see...the proof will be in the pudding...err...box office!
All I can say is that that is not a financial risk that I would want to wager. Maybe Paramount is "feeling lucky"...although with two flop Trek films and one mediocre series I don't know what would possess them to feel that way.
I just don't think now is the time to be gambling on a new cast at the box office unless Paramount has money to throw away...
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Quack!!!
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What choice do they have? TNG obviously has passed its prime. DS9 and VOY are too obscure for general audiences. If they want to do movies, there's no choice but an entirely new cast, really. Although I think a crossover with TNG, DS9, VOY would be great and function in much the same way as a new cast by introducing the characters but allowing the Trekkies to get extra enjoyment out of the existing character history.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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Although I think a crossover with TNG, DS9, VOY would be great and function in much the same way as a new cast by introducing the characters but allowing the Trekkies to get extra enjoyment out of the existing character history.
That's probably the best option available to them at this point in the game. That's if they insist on making another movie...
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Quack!!!
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Despite my anger below, I agree with you about new characters. This could be a new and interesting direction for Star Trek. What I was criticizing, however, was that this is a really dumb move on B&B's part, because if they couldn't get people to watch a TNG movie, they're certainly not going to get them to watch a Star Trek movie about characters and a time period most people have never heard about or don't care about.
There'd have to be something in the movie that would make it just as interesting to audiences as if it hadn't been called "Star Trek." Moreso, in fact, because Star Trek currently has a bad name.
First of all, I like almost all things Trek. I'm one of those saps who'll see anything once if it has the Trek name on it.
HOWEVER, I have to agree with the B&B detractors on this one (and that's tough for me to do). This smacks of desperation on the part of Berman. It pretty much violates the tenant of all movie sequels: you've got to have familiar faces/relationships so that there's something to build on. This whole Romulan Wars thing escapes me.
I'm sure after the last 2 Trek movies, the gatekeepers at Paramount don't want another TNG movie. But frankly, B&B do need to be put out to pasture. Insurrection and Nemesis were good stories ... for a one-hour TV episode. Other than First Contact, B&B have not shown me they've got the teeth or the vision or whatever for feature film work. Compare the last two films to Spider-Man 2 and you see what's missing is the relationship dynamic. S2 works because of all the little moments between the characters -- not the action sequences. That's what B&B don't get about feature films. The bigger the scope, the more finely tuned your dialogue and character interaction has to be.
I'm done.
First, Scorned is THE MAN!!! His views are similar to mine and he's right on target.
1. The Romulan Wars should not be done in just a single movie. This is an event in Trek history that is equal to Star Wars' Clone wars in importance. If it's going to be done in films -- plot out three films and do them justice. But asking these writers to PLAN a trilogy is like asking a monkey to pilot a space shuttle.
2. Enterprise at least would allow enough time to give the event the proper amount of time due for storytelling.
3. The Romulans themselves are NOT a problem with regard to lack of interest by the fans (it's NOT that nobody wants to see the Romulans -- they are one of the least used races in Trek). Just like any other villain good writing is required to maintain interest. Saying "nobody wants to see the Romulans" is a copout...
4. Fire Berman and Braga! They are just not equipped for the challenge of fixing Enterprise and DEFINITELY should not be in charge of another movie (that will just be another bomb -- probably WORSE than Nemesis as people still remember how bad Insurrection and Nemesis were). Berman has accomplished something Harve Bennett never did -- two back to back flop films. Overcoming that is going to be a MONUMENTAL chore. Plus, if the prequel gets made it will NOT have the advantage of ANY of the casts we have come to know. An unknown cast will NOT work to the advantage of the next film given that it has to overcome the bad taste/memories of Insurrection and Nemesis.
The next film -- even if by a miracle it's great -- will have the odds stacked against it. And if Paramount decides to make it anyway and it bombs there goes the opportunity to do a trilogy. The baby will die in the womb. So, then we'd NEVER get to see the Romulan Wars done as they need to be.
5. The Eugenics War. Look, dumbasses...go back and watch Space Seed (I know, asking you to actually WATCH a TOS episode is beneath you)! It is STATED that the Eugenics War took place in the 1990's. Even though we know in real time no Eugenics War took place, we need to respect the established Trek timeline and enforce continuity. There's no way in hell you can set the Eugenics War in Archer's time.
Maroons.
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Quack!!!
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Did you read the article? Nowhere does it say the Eugenics wars are going to STart in Archer's time. It says they might do something "involving the Eugenics Wars".
In Trek continuity the Eugenics Wars still happened in the 90s. We saw it in the Voyager episode where they traveled to 1990s Earth. In Rain Robinson's offic (Sarah Silverman) was a model of the Botany Bay (Kahn's Ship) to indicate that the Eugenics Wars were happening at that time, but in another part of the world.
Are they serious that Enterprise may not feature the Romulan Wars? This was one of the only aspects of Enterprise that always had potential.
Please tell me that Enterprise gets destroyed and that's why they can't participate in the Romulan Wars. If the producers do stick to canon and have the Wars in 2156, then Enterprise should be involved unless they are destroyed.
Don't ruin this major event in Trek history, by overlooking it on Enterprise.
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"Any man who is under thirty, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over thirty, and is not a conservative, has no brains."
-Winston Churchill
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"The culture you've come to know isn't the one I helped to create." - Surak to Archer "Awakening"
please RIGHT CLICK and select SAVE TARGET AS:
http://fongunlimited.com/media/gene.mov
and start finding mirrors for it. I'm benchmarking my bandwidth but if it runs out (due to popularity) then surely some of you fans must back it up. It belongs to the lore of Internet vaults.
So... why am I posting this? It is to remind both the fans, the creators and anyone out there who claims to be a Trekkie at heart what the true meaning of Star Trek is. Who better to state it then the creator of Star Trek himself. Without him we wouldn't be here posting messages... it'll probably be somn else like babylon5...
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LET THEM DIE!!!
No Romulan war to feature in Enterprise as it is comming up in a few years. So what I'm asking why don't they have the Romulan Wars in Enterprise and base a movie on something else (or tell the story from the Romulan point of view), though I'm surprised they are allowed near a Star Trek film after what happened with the last one.
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Hoshi: I was hoping you'd put up a fight.
T'Pol: I'm surprised you're not exhausted from all the beds, you've jumped into, recently.
"In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II"
From this teeny-tiny bit of info, I am FOR this project going forward. At this point, having characters unrelated to TV is a natural progression for the franchise. The current TV series (DS9, VOY, ENT) haven't been watched by enough people to make them viably marketable. Sure, they could TRY to do a DS9 movie, but why take the risk?
The major downside is trying to live down two flops in a row. The general reaction will probably be, "They're making another Star Trek movie?"
Still, I say go for a new flick with new characters to get people interested in Trek again.
Now, all of that said, I believe it is a HUGE mistake for B&B to do this:
1) They are STILL burnt-out. These guys need some serious beach-time before they do anything else.
2) They've already totally botched their first prequel concept.
3) It was CLEARLY stated beyond ANY doubt that the Romulan Wars were fought with primitive nuclear weapons. Unless they go against ENT, this film will likely put craters into continuity (not that most people will care.)
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The supervisor is Verizon!
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Quote:
The major downside is trying to live down two flops in a row. The general reaction will probably be, "They're making another Star Trek movie?"
That's probably my biggest problem at this point. Since I no longer accept anything they do as canon, the only thing I have to fear is other people accepting it, or the public having their negative view of Star Trek being reconfirmed.
I still don't get this. WHY are they now "two facing" on the Romulan popularity? They blamed its low popularity on Nemesis and NOW they are going to use them again? This makes NO sense whatsoever.
Another thing I want to know is WHY is Berman doing another movie? I thought he said he was working with 3 other directors. WHY is he attempting to write it? The guy can't write a decent movie script if his life depended on it. He was rumored to be FIRED after March sweeps. This is ridiculous. Tell him to go do his stupid blue marble crap and just fucking leave Trek alone.
That Eugenics comment better not be tied into ENT because they happened in the 1990s NOT Archers time.
I wonder if Berman and Braga have a big poster of George Lucas on the wall next to their beds. Which they pray to every night with the hopes of actually coming up with an "original idea".
Star Trek XI=Berman production= ANOTHER bomb!
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thats it, eugenic wars in 21something,
the romulan wars reduced to a 90 minute
fx-show, without Enterprise being involved.
im losing all my hope.
it seems like they already dont care about
Enterprise anymore. I guess theyre going
to end the TCW lacking a big payoff
(yeah lets put a cap on it).
This just makes me sick.
When are we going to burn Bermaga?
Its about time.
It's pretty clear I'm alone when saying I'm looking forward to all this new stuff.
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You're not alone. I think the whole thing sounds epic and exciting. Totally looking forward to it. The nay-sayers on this board aren't happy with anything. I don't know why they bother even keeping up with new Trek, since it only seems to cause them endless frustration. As long as it's written and executed well, I'm totally for the current Trek guru's filling in the blanks of classic lore, even if it doesn't fit. As for the Eugenics(sp?) wars being done in the wrong time frame - I say BLAH - so what! The 1990's are gone, the human race did not make any strides in cryogenics in that time frame. That doesn't make the telling of the story any less interesting. Bring it on!
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"Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack. Rule of Aquisition #109." --Quark
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You are not alone, I think it is wonderful. And that it is about time we see what has only been talked about, and not seen.
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Please visit my website for some of the best Star Trek Fan Films out there!
http://www.pauley79.com
N.K.A.W.T.G.
Berman and Braga hating the Romulans? I DON'T THINK SO!! Not only are they going to feature the Romulan Wars, it will be the next movie! KICK ASS!!!
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"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek: The Beginning
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
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Quote:"that the eleventh STAR TREK film will be a prequel set before the time of 'James T. Kirk', but that it will not be related to the fifth television series ENTERPRISE."
How can the Romulan war take place before Kirk? That is too far into the future. The Romulan wars were to have taken place with the use of "nuclear weapons". So again this is not making any sense.
Quote:"Apparently he also says that major "intersterllar events" that lead to the founding of the Federation may take place this year, and hinted at something involving the famed Eugenics Wars."
Is Brannon this stupid? The Eugenics wars have NOTHING to do with the formation of the Federation. They took place in the 1990's not in Archers time. So I have no idea what he is talking about. If they do the Eugenics wars in ENT that is going to be a can of worms for "continuity" to an incredible degree.
Quote:"One thing we're discussing is possibly blowing the lid off the Temporal Cold War once and for all,"
After 2 seasons of bullshit stories regarding this. It is going to be funny to see how they decide to end it. I wonder if Archer will find himself back in the days of the "Flintstones" instead of WWII.
On to Trekman....
First off when I told you they hated the Romulans I used the comments that B&B used about the Romulans in Nemesis. Their opinion was not good and they blamed the lack of fan interest in the Romulans as one of many reasons for the failure of Nemesis. So I am not "wrong" when I told you they didn't like the Romulans. They felt that they were not a commerical assest to use. They were not interested in using the Romulans on ENT as well. This of course leads me to conclude that B&B are still idiots because they said that they thought the Romulans were NOT a viable villian in a film. But now they have "changed their minds".
I take great pleasure in telling you this Trekman "If this project gets done, they are going to fuck it up so badly that you are probably going to jump off a building". STXI will bomb not because of the Romulans but because it is again a Berman and Braga production. It is clearly a last ditch effort of jumping on the "Star Wars prequel" band wagon. They should of done the war arc in ENT instead of the dragged out Xindi crap. So until this movie gets made will you now kindly shut the hell up with your war mongering spew?
As for this idea of a prequel to be the next movie I really think it is a bad idea. They keep going backwards with the hope of finding something when in fact they are just spinning their wheels.
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Quote:
How can the Romulan war take place before Kirk? That is too far into the future. The Romulan wars were to have taken place with the use of "nuclear weapons". So again this is not making any sense.
What the hell are you talking about? The Romulan Wars took place 100 years before Kirk! It was established in "Balance of Terror"!
"Constructed on asteroids, they monitor the Neutral Zone established by treaty after the Earth-Romulan conflict of over a century ago."
Quote:
Is Brannon this stupid? The Eugenics wars have NOTHING to do with the formation of the Federation. They took place in the 1990's not in Archers time. So I have no idea what he is talking about. If they do the Eugenics wars in ENT that is going to be a can of worms for "continuity" to an incredible degree.
That's not what Brannon said. He said two different things that we will see in the coming season:
1. Major "intersterllar events" that lead to the founding of the Federation.
2. Something involving the famed Eugenics Wars.
If you read it correctly you would find that he was talking about two seperate things.
Quote:
I take great pleasure in telling you this Trekman "If this project gets done, they are going to fuck it up so badly that you are probably going to jump off a building".
I am optimistic, though I am concerned about it and that's why I'm trying to find a way to send my stuff about the RW w/out geting it sent back to me. I mean, if there is the slightest possibility of me writing the Romulan Wars movie, you can guarantee it would be a hit. I know that the odds are against me, but it never hurts to dream.
Quote:
They should of done the war arc in ENT instead of the dragged out Xindi crap.
It was too early in the series for the Romulan Wars arc. Besides, I believe the Xindi was great addition to Trek lore.
Quote:
So until this movie gets made will you now kindly shut the hell up with your war mongering spew?
Well, I have decided not to post the "Big Romulan Wars Thread" anymore, mostly because I have other things to do, so you should at be glad about that.
Quote:
As for this idea of a prequel to be the next movie I really think it is a bad idea.
Well it all comes down to the script. If the script has a Pearl Harbor feel to it, then yeah it would suck, but if it's like Saving Private Ryan, The Longest Day, Platoon, Apocalypse Now, etc., then the movie is going to rock. Let's just hope that John Logan, Manny Coto, and Mike Sussman write it.
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"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek: The Beginning
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
-
Quote:"What the hell are you talking about? The Romulan Wars took place 100 years before Kirk! It was established in "Balance of Terror"!
ENT takes place 100 years before Kirk. They are saying that the RW will take place before Kirk. Balance of Terror says it took place 100 years ago.
DO THE MATH! It makes NO sense on the timeline.
Quote:
Quote:"That's not what Brannon said. He said two different things that we will see in the coming season:
1. Major "intersterllar events" that lead to the founding of the Federation.
2. Something involving the famed Eugenics Wars.
If you read it correctly you would find that he was talking about two seperate things.
He is suggesting that the Eugenics war has some "shadowing" on the formation of the Federation. The Eugenics war happened in the 1990's and the Founding is established at what time? How much time has pasted? It is VERY clear that Brannon wants to end this STUPID TCW idea because they have NO idea how to end it or even make it interesting. It has been 2 seasons of pure crap.
They have NO clue what the hell they are doing. They are just raping TOS for everything they can.
Quote:"I am optimistic, though I am concerned about it and that's why I'm trying to find a way to send my stuff about the RW w/out geting it sent back to me.
No you are naive. They will not even look at your letter. It will be thrown in the garbage. You are delusional thinking that they would even look at it. They don't care about you or Trek.
Quote:"I mean, if there is the slightest possibility of me writing the Romulan Wars movie, you can guarantee it would be a hit. I know that the odds are against me, but it never hurts to dream."
Sudden you can write screen plays with no experience. You are dreaming big time. Don't give up your day job.
Quote:"It was too early in the series for the Romulan Wars arc. Besides, I believe the Xindi was great addition to Trek lore.
Whats a Xindi? When people are asked about Trek the word Xindi holds no meaning and does nothing for Trek.
Quote:"Well, I have decided not to post the "Big Romulan Wars Thread" anymore, mostly because I have other things to do, so you should at be glad about that.
Thank god.
Quote:"Well it all comes down to the script. If the script has a Pearl Harbor feel to it, then yeah it would suck, but if it's like Saving Private Ryan, The Longest Day, Platoon, Apocalypse Now, etc., then the movie is going to rock. Let's just hope that John Logan, Manny Coto, and Mike Sussman write it.
Listen are you out of your mind? Do you honestly think these dickheads are going to write something better than STII? Star Wars? Don't be so stupid.
John Logan's Nemesis was shit. Manny Coto and Mike Sussman have NO experience writing movies. They can barely do TV. You are putting your beloved "Romulan War" in the hands of incompetent people.
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Quote:
ENT takes place 100 years before Kirk. They are saying that the RW will take place before Kirk. Balance of Terror says it took place 100 years ago.
DO THE MATH! It makes NO sense on the timeline.
If the Romulan Wars movie is set sometime between 2156-2160, I don't see how it dosen't make sense. It's before Kirk!
Quote:
He is suggesting that the Eugenics war has some "shadowing" on the formation of the Federation. The Eugenics war happened in the 1990's and the Founding is established at what time? How much time has pasted? It is VERY clear that Brannon wants to end this STUPID TCW idea because they have NO idea how to end it or even make it interesting. It has been 2 seasons of pure crap.
Brannon is not saying that the Eugenics Wars will have something to do with the founding of the Federation! In that paragraph, he was talking about TWO DIFFERENT story-arcs that will be featured in the upcoming season of Enterprise.
1. Major "intersterllar events" that lead to the founding of the Federation.
and
2. Something involving the famed Eugenics Wars.
How are they doing it? I don't know and I am reserving my judgement until I hear some more information on it.
Quote:
No you are naive. They will not even look at your letter. It will be thrown in the garbage. You are delusional thinking that they would even look at it. They don't care about you or Trek.
Well, of course I know that they will not read my letter. That's why I'm trying to find a way to my letter w/out getting it throw in the trash.
Quote:
Sudden you can write screen plays with no experience.
I've been self teaching myself on how to write scripts on and off for a couple of years.
Quote:
Whats a Xindi? When people are asked about Trek the word Xindi holds no meaning and does nothing for Trek.
Same could be said about the Borg in 1989. Some closed-minded fool could have gone on one of the earliest internet forums in 89 right after seeing "Q Who?" and say, "Whats a Borg? When people are asked about Trek the word Borg holds no meaning and does nothing for Trek."
Quote:
John Logan's Nemesis was shit.
I've read the script before the movie came out and it had a lot of potenial. The ones who are responsible for the failure of Nemesis was the producer, director, and editor.
Quote:
Manny Coto and Mike Sussman have NO experience writing movies. They can barely do TV.
What are you talking about? They are two of the best writers Trek has ever had. And it doesn't matter if they have no experience in writing movies, they have to start somewhere!
--------
"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek: The Beginning
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
-
Quote:"If the Romulan Wars movie is set sometime between 2156-2160, I don't see how it dosen't make sense. It's before Kirk!"
WHERE did you get that date from? WHAT episode did you get it from? STOP using that f'ing date from that stupid Trek "BOOK" that is NOT cannon.
ENT-100 years BEFORE Kirk
RW- 100 BEFORE KIRK
This new piece of shit movie will take place "AFTER" ENT just before Kirk. TIMELINE IS VIOLATED AGAIN!
Quote:"Brannon is not saying that the Eugenics Wars will have something to do with the founding of the Federation! In that paragraph, he was talking about TWO DIFFERENT story-arcs that will be featured in the upcoming season of Enterprise.
1. Major "intersterllar events" that lead to the founding of the Federation.
and
2. Something involving the famed Eugenics Wars.
How are they doing it? I don't know and I am reserving my judgement until I hear some more information on it.
"
You may reserve you judgement but I see more raping of TOS ideas. You are just too naive to care.
Quote:"Well, of course I know that they will not read my letter. That's why I'm trying to find a way to my letter w/out getting it throw in the trash."
You live in a world of denial! Snap out of it!
Quote:"I've been self teaching myself on how to write scripts on and off for a couple of years.
And you expect to make a movie on a largerly succesful franchise with NO prior experience? You live in a your own reality. SNAP OUT OF IT!
Quote:"Same could be said about the Borg in 1989. Some closed-minded fool could have gone on one of the earliest internet forums in 89 right after seeing "Q Who?" and say, "Whats a Borg? When people are asked about Trek the word Borg holds no meaning and does nothing for Trek."
The funny thing with that is that Borg are still on going. The Xindi were boring and it has done nothing for Trek. The ratings never improved. There was NOT one episode of S3 that went over 5 million. How sad is that.
The episode of the Borg was not dragged out over an entire season. The presentation of the Borg was far better and seem more threatening then the Xindi. WHO the hell sends a probe to attack an eneny without having your "forces (ie your main weapon) READY to attack. Lets take 6 months to get it ready and NOT expect those species to come after us to stop them. The entire Xindi arc was completely STUPID. There was NO logic to it what so ever! Time will NOT give the Xindi any great place in Trek. You are again lost in your own world.
Quote:"I've read the script before the movie came out and it had a lot of potenial. The ones who are responsible for the failure of Nemesis was the producer, director, and editor.
Why is it so easy for people to point fingers at everyone else for Nemesis failure but they can't seem to see that they might have been involved as well. The script was shit. Logan was NO fan of Trek because if he was he wouldn't of made ANY mistakes. Spiner has even tried to distance himself from it with that RIDICULOUS comment about having "nothing to do with Data's death". What a load of crap! The script was boring. It is that simple. Hence the removal of 45 mins of it on the editors floor.
Quote:"What are you talking about? They are two of the best writers Trek has ever had. And it doesn't matter if they have no experience in writing movies, they have to start somewhere!
You must be 12 years old and ENT is the only Trek you have ever seen. The best writers Trek every had? I don't think so. They write some mediocre episodes and you are bowing to them? All this praise for Coto because of a few episodes. YEAH RIGHT. If he was so great why did his other show before ENT not even make one season? Ripping off other episodes and Trek movies and calling it "homage"? Give me a break. Trek needs a HIT movie. NO studio in their right mind would give 2 inexperience mediocre writers a $40 million dollar budget. For a film which a long term franchise needs to be a HIT.
STXI should of been the return of Kirk. That would of been a GUARANTEED HIT! Trek fans of yestersday which have abandoned Trek today might come back. Bring some final "CLOSURE" to the greatest Trek character instead of that STUPID "falling off of rocks, make a difference, boo hoo Sulu had a kid I didn't". Generations portrayal of Kirk was F'ing EMBARASSING!
STXI: The Geonosis Wars. YAWN!! Another rip off of Star Wars. In this case Episode II. How pathetically desparate! ADMIT IT I am right on this. You can't deny it!
If this movie is made. Trek will finally be killed. It is already dying on the television front now it will be killed on the "big screen". What a horrible thing to happen.
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Quote:
He is suggesting that the Eugenics war has some "shadowing" on the formation of the Federation.
For all we know he means that there may be an episode where the EW are seen in flashback, or time travel, or who knows. From the excerpts available, it does not appear that he stated that the EW were going to somehow play into the founding of the Federation, so arguing against that point is just wasted energy.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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The Eugenics wars might be talked about, but it doesn't mean B&B intend for them to take place during ENT.
About the movie, I CAN'T WAIT! Oh, but wait. Some here will post about how bad of a movie its going to be b4 they even see it....
And they call themselves "true Trek fans". Too bad....
Oh, and how is "before Kirk" to far in the future! Plus the Rom. Comdr. said he had nuclear weapons on his ship and was prepared to use them!
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Quote:" The Eugenics wars might be talked about, but it doesn't mean B&B intend for them to take place during ENT."
He is hinting that it is. This does not compute with established timelines.
Quote:"About the movie, I CAN'T WAIT! Oh, but wait. Some here will post about how bad of a movie its going to be b4 they even see it....
And they call themselves "true Trek fans". Too bad....
Oh yes the "lets wait and see attitude". Please do you people not see a train wreck when you see one? Hearing a general outline by idiots who gave us 2 dud movies in a row and a lousy series....gives me a pretty good idea what to expect.
Quote:"Oh, and how is "before Kirk" to far in the future! Plus the Rom. Comdr. said he had nuclear weapons on his ship and was prepared to use them!"
Go back and listen to Spock giving a brief outline of the RW. That is where it is known that they used nuclear weapons. You need to brush up on your TOS. Oh wait if you were a "true Trek fan" shouldn't you know that already?
I have been a fan of Star Trek BEFORE Rick Berman even knew what Star Trek was. Now I am going to see a man destroy something that I followed almost from day one. What a sad day it is today!
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Keep telling it like it is, Scorned! Frankly, unless they bring back Kirk ANY movie is going to suck, much less a crappy "prequel". I'm to the point where I don't even understand why Paramount even wants to try. I wish they would sell the franchise to WB or somebody, then fire B&B and hire STAN LEE. Stan would see the wisdom in bringing back Captain Kirk! Yeah, that would be cool!
...fuctioning well enough to put out this one last message:
This man scares me in the same way George W. Bush scares me. Not to say that it is of the same magnitude or importance, but it is the same manner of thinking. It's the feeling that something I know and love is being destroyed and there's nothing I can do to stop it.
I didn't want to start a political discussion (and I sincerely hope I didn't just alienate a significant portion of posters reading this), but I felt that was the best way to describe what I feel whenever I read an update on Berman's new movie.
Now...I'm not going to scream. I'm a civilized human being.
How...fucking...stupid...is he...?
Nemesis, a movie based on what was once the most popular syndicated show on television, failed horribly at the box office.
Now he wants to do a prequel movie with characters that nobody has ever heard of? Rather than cursing, I'm simply not going to even make the attempt at expressing how insanely idiotic this is.
Has he not humiliated Star Trek enough? Does he not feel important enough in the world? Must he spit in Star Trek's face and gaze on in satisfaction as the rest of the world laughs as it squirms out of existence? No, he has to make another failure...Sorry computer, you're dead after this post...
So it's going to be about the Romulan War, huh? Great, one more important event of Star Trek history about to be abused and disgraced. I'm a huge fan of the Romulans. It was bad enough that Nemesis destroyed all the political and social intrigue that had been building up at a painfully slow pace for the past decade or so...now he has to fulfill his Temporal Cold War promise and destroy the Romulans in the past as well.
Which brings me to another point: Berman had said that one of the reasons Nemesis failed was because the fans supposedly were tired of the Romulans. So WHO THE HELL DOES HE THINKG HE IS??? Now he suddenly decides that fans want to see the Romulans? Or better yet, maybe he thinks that all those casual viewers who didn't want to see a TNG movie but want to see a completely irrelevant ST movie want to see the Romulans! The man is a fucking genius!
Quote:
"One thing we're discussing is possibly blowing the lid off the Temporal Cold War once and for all," according to the excerpts. "That's probably something we'll do in this first storyline. I can't say that for sure, because we're just getting into it. But I'd really like to resolve that and put a cap on it. It would be a nice thing to do after three seasons of teasing it along."
My GOD!!! Braga knows NOTHING!!! The Temporal Cold War is supposedly the thing that made ENT unique in the beginning. It was the last argument for people who were trying to prove that ENT is unique. And now he's thinking about ending it??? Just like that??? "Oh, it's an annoyance now, so we'll get rid of it." The man is an incompetant jerk!
Quote:
Apparently he also says that major "intersterllar events" that lead to the founding of the Federation may take place this year, and hinted at something involving the famed Eugenics Wars.
My mind cannot begin to concieve of the horrors that are the possible excuses to link the founding of the Federation to the Eugenics War.
Quote:
This should be treated as rumor until confirmed.
Steve, if you're still reading at this point, are you saying here that the quotes you provided might be false?
EDIT: For the record, the Bush metaphor was more or less a joke, as comparing an Evil TV producer to a (possibly) evil US President is slightly on the nutty side...
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Quote:
My GOD!!! Braga knows NOTHING!!! The Temporal Cold War is supposedly the thing that made ENT unique in the beginning. It was the last argument for people who were trying to prove that ENT is unique. And now he's thinking about ending it??? Just like that??? "Oh, it's an annoyance now, so we'll get rid of it." The man is an incompetant jerk!
Well then, I certainly hope you weren't any of the people who regularly cited the TCW as being yet another awful component of Enterprise who would, you know, actually look at this as good news.
Because then that'd just be strange. :-(
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The worst part is if they try to sum up the Romulan Wars in one movie, it is going to be so rushed so as to lack all drama and excitement. Why can't it just be accepted that this was one of the most brutal intersteller wars in history that led to the formation of the Federation? That's all I need! Just leave it mysterious, I don't need to see it. Especially in one hour and fourty-five minutes! It's just like trying to make a movie about the formation of the UN by showing the rise of Hitler and Imperial Japan, then the entire WWII, then the Nuremberg Trials, and the UN Charter being created, all under 2 hours! It cannot be done! DON'T TRY!!! Once again, unless Captain Kirk is brought back, the film franchise is screwed anyway!
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I still want to see it, just not B&B style. :-)
And not as a movie either, I agree. As a story arc on a TV show, it would have been great. But not on Enterprise.
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Quote:
EDIT: For the record, the Bush metaphor was more or less a joke, as comparing an Evil TV producer to a (possibly) evil US President is slightly on the nutty side...
I'm not so sure it's all that nutty. I thought about it for a sec and came to realize that Star Trek's current state somewhat mirrors the state of affairs in the world today.
Mind you this is a simple analogy meant in-gest, but I believe it's accurate none-the-less (for some anyway)
The world is going to hell in a hand basket, reguardless of who's to blame, and I think that's a reason why a lot of people turn to fiction... the world sucks, so let's go find something to ponder over that doesn't.
Star Trek was once the ultimate in fiction, I personally can't think of a better fictional universe to go to when the entrapments of the world become somewhat boring.
But now Star Trek is going down the tubes as well, so where the bloody hell do we go to get some damn relief???
I dunno. Running out of options, I think we're all doomed.
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Lily: You mean those bionic zombies you were talking about? The...
Picard: Borg
Lily: Borg... sounds Swedish ~Star Trek: First Contact
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Quote:"Has he not humiliated Star Trek enough? Does he not feel important enough in the world? Must he spit in Star Trek's face and gaze on in satisfaction as the rest of the world laughs as it squirms out of existence? No, he has to make another failure...Sorry computer, you're dead after this post..."
Poor computer....
Quote:"Which brings me to another point: Berman had said that one of the reasons Nemesis failed was because the fans supposedly were tired of the Romulans. So WHO THE HELL DOES HE THINKG HE IS??? Now he suddenly decides that fans want to see the Romulans? Or better yet, maybe he thinks that all those casual viewers who didn't want to see a TNG movie but want to see a completely irrelevant ST movie want to see the Romulans! The man is a fucking genius!"
I am glad to see that I was not alone in remembering this. Trekman needs to do some more past readings.
Quote:"My GOD!!! Braga knows NOTHING!!! The Temporal Cold War is supposedly the thing that made ENT unique in the beginning. It was the last argument for people who were trying to prove that ENT is unique. And now he's thinking about ending it??? Just like that??? "Oh, it's an annoyance now, so we'll get rid of it." The man is an incompetant jerk!"
I have said it once and I will say it again. Berman and Braga are the 'idiots of Trek". They are just doing whatever the hell they want with the hopes that something will "stick". What a horrible way to end Trek!!!
Quote:"My mind cannot begin to concieve of the horrors that are the possible excuses to link the founding of the Federation to the Eugenics War"
I hate to say it but I agree. I can see "continuity" just getting thrown out the window here.
I couldn't agree more with you on this one. This is a disaster waiting to happen. If we are lucky Berman and or Braga will get hit by lightning and vaperized before this happens.
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"This man scares me in the same way George W. Bush scares me. Not to say that it is of the same magnitude or importance, but it is the same manner of thinking. It's the feeling that something I know and love is being destroyed and there's nothing I can do to stop it.
I didn't want to start a political discussion (and I sincerely hope I didn't just alienate a significant portion of posters reading this),..."
You say you don't want to alienate people, but you just have. If you really feel that way, I'd suggest staying away from such metaphors in the first place.
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Quote:
My mind cannot begin to concieve of the horrors that are the possible excuses to link the founding of the Federation to the Eugenics War.
He didn't say they would be tied. Just hinted that a storyline might involve the EW.
As to veracity, TrekToday says they received the excerpts from a reader, and they phrased the news in such a way as to indicate that they haven't seen the articles themselves. It's probably true, readers get the mags early all the time and send in snippets. I'd be very surprised if it's a lie, and so I imagine, would TrekToday.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
Honestly, they need to take a break. Let Enterprise finish its run, then let Trek rest.
Star Trek isn't popular right now because it has yet to show its life. Right now it seems old and stale. The only way you can bring it back is to give it the old energy that it used to have. That means you bring in someone new. It means you'll have to reinvent it possibly. And it means you get rid of everyone that was associated with ENT, VOY, DS9, TNG, and whoever else.
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Scientists discover the world that exists;
engineers create the world that never was.
-Theodore von Kármán
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Quote:
Honestly, they need to take a break. Let Enterprise finish its run, then let Trek rest.
Exactly...but Paramount and Berman won't let it rest until it's (as the Squire of Gothos would say) Dead! Dead! Dead!!
I'll bet Roddenberry is rolling in his grave.
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Quack!!!
The Eugenics wars might be talked about, but it doesn't mean B&B intend for them to take place during ENT.
About the movie, I CAN'T WAIT! Oh, but wait. Some here will post about how bad of a movie its going to be b4 they even see it....
And they call themselves "true Trek fans". Too bad....
While I'm pleased to hear that the Romulan War (not Wars) is a possible feature film, I bet B&B still manage to screw it up. In case they read this, here's a couple of points:
1. It was the Earth/Romulan War, not a war between the Federation and the Romulans.
2. Do yourselves a favor and watch the Original Series episode Balance of Terror.
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Quote:
the Romulan War (not Wars)
Umm, The Romulan Wars is the most widely accepted name of the Earth-Romulan Conflict mentioned in "BoT". Partly because it's in the Star Trek: Chronology as "The Romulan Wars".
Quote:
1. It was the Earth/Romulan War, not a war between the Federation and the Romulans.
That's already common knowledge to them, they're not that stupid as many people think.
--------
"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek: The Beginning
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
From above:
Apparently he also says that major "intersterllar events" that lead to the founding of the Federation may take place this year, and hinted at something involving the famed Eugenics Wars.
WHAT?
Has Braga WATCHED TOS "Space Seed"? Has he WATCHED TWoK?
The Eugenics Wars supposedly HAPPEN in the 1990s and rather than keep to that time frame, they have summarily screwed around with it per ENT "Hatchery", effectively shoving it into the timeframe of WW III in the mid 2000s.
How are we going to "see" this? What else. TIme travel. Or a flashback I suppose.
I know what Scorned is going to say... LOL
(aside from mention of a potential ripoff of "Star Wars: Attack of the Clones"... 
)
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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Quote:
WHAT? Has Braga WATCHED TOS "Space Seed"? Has he WATCHED TWoK? The Eugenics Wars supposedly HAPPEN in the 1990s and rather than keep to that time frame, they have summarily screwed around with it per ENT "Hatchery", effectively shoving it into the timeframe of WW III in the mid 2000s. How are we going to "see" this? What else. TIme travel. Or a flashback I suppose.
I don't see anything in that line that's concrete enough to get worked up over.
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Quote:
I don't see anything in that line that's concrete enough to get worked up over.
The "line" invokes what they have ALREADY butchered about the Eugenics War in ENT "Hatchery" that I mention. And so since their evil eye is pointing in that direction, it seems that they continue to plan on reworking point after point after point within the Star Trek universe - the embryonic stages of that universe being something that THEY didn't create.
And so the Eugenics Wars gets shoved into the midst of a WW III and other such nonsense.
My point being that a large majority of the fandom consider TWoK as one of their most favorite films and in fact, part of it features the return of Khan Noonien Singh, who gained legendary status within the fandom (thanks to Montalban). And he is the personification of the "super Humans" from that period. And so now I anticipate NOT anything resembling an "hommage", but what will eventually become the destruction of THIS popular figure in Trek history by finangling with the events.
And sadly, some of the blame has to go to DS9 "Doctor Bashir, I Presume?" when someone majorily goofed with a Eugenics Wars date.
Sigh....
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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Quote:
The "line" invokes what they have ALREADY butchered about the Eugenics War in ENT "Hatchery" that I mention.
Until such time as we get more info, there's no reason to assume that it was simply an error that they'll overlook.
Quote:
And so now I anticipate NOT anything resembling an "hommage", but what will eventually become the destruction of THIS popular figure in Trek history by finangling with the events.
Again, I see no reason to assume the worst or that Khan would even be in this Eugenics episode.
Quote:
And sadly, some of the blame has to go to DS9 "Doctor Bashir, I Presume?" when someone majorily goofed with a Eugenics Wars date.
Again, no reason to assume they'd even go by that line, especially since they've seemed to ignore most everything on DS9 and when the writer himself took the blame for the goof. I see that as more akin to Scotty thinking Kirk came to rescue him or that the Vulcans had been in space some 3,000 years.
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Quote:
The Eugenics Wars supposedly HAPPEN in the 1990s and rather than keep to that time frame, they have summarily screwed around with it per ENT "Hatchery", effectively shoving it into the timeframe of WW III in the mid 2000s.
I have already proved that it's possible for Archer's grandfather tohave fought in the Eugenics Wars set in the early 1990s
Robert Archer: 1970-2039; 45 years old when Donald was born
Donald Archer: 2015-2091; 59 years old when Henry was born
Henry Archer: 2074-2120's/30's; 30 years old when Jonathan was born
Jonathan Archer: 2104-2196(?); 60 years old when Charles was born(?)
--------
"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek: The Beginning
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
-
Quote:
Donald Archer: 2015-2091; 59 years old when Henry was born
HUH? Why would you want to encourage them to create more YATIs?
Make them FIX IT and leave the ESTABLISHED Trek universe history (and its dates for things) ALONE. If a date is set then LEAVE IT. Supplement it or flesh it out, but don't CHANGE IT on purpose because it doesn't fit with a plot!!!
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
----
"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
-
I not encouraging anything! I'm just saying that it is possible for Archer's grandfather to have fought in the Eugenics Wars in the early 90's.
--------
"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek: The Beginning
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
-
(*jumps up and down*)
No! No no no no no no no!
Don't encourage them!!!
--------
"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
----
"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
-
The Eugenics wars might be talked about, but it doesn't mean B&B intend for them to take place during ENT.
About the movie, I CAN'T WAIT! Oh, but wait. Some here will post about how bad of a movie its going to be b4 they even see it....
And they call themselves "true Trek fans". Too bad....
-
Quote:
Oh, but wait. Some here will post about how bad of a movie its going to be b4 they even see it....
And they call themselves "true Trek fans". Too bad....
Yes, "there are always possibilities"...
However that does not in any way excuse Berman's record.
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Quote:
The Eugenics wars might be talked about, but it doesn't mean B&B intend for them to take place during ENT.
It WAS "talked about" by Archer in ENT "Hatchery", where he talks about his great great grandfather having "fought" in the Eugenics War. Problem is, that doesn't go back FAR ENOUGH unless it was his GREAT GREAT GREAT grandfather. So right there, they do a continuity breach and screw it up.
But I expect they might want to follow up on Archer's ancestor comment. ;-)
Who I want to see is the Stiles family members who should be alive right now and ready to gear up soon for the RW per TOS "Balance of Terror". One of them is a Captain and Archer should get to know him.
Quote:
About the movie, I CAN'T WAIT! Oh, but wait. Some here will post about how bad of a movie its going to be b4 they even see it....
And they call themselves "true Trek fans". Too bad....
The problem is that they refuse to reach over onto Okuda's desk and open up the Encyclopedia. ;-)
--------
"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
----
"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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Quote from Jadzia-Dax to odomovie:
It WAS "talked about" by Archer in ENT "Hatchery", where he talks about his great great grandfather having "fought" in the Eugenics War. Problem is, that doesn't go back FAR ENOUGH unless it was his GREAT GREAT GREAT grandfather. So right there, they do a continuity breach and screw it up.
Actually, Archer said "great grandfather."
Here's the dialog from Hatchery...
Archer: "My great-grandfather was in North Africa during the Eugenics Wars. His battalion was evacuating civilians from a war zone when they came under attack. There was a school full of children directly between them and the enemy. If his men had returned fire, they might have hit it. So he called the commander on the other side, got him to agree to hold his fire long enough to evacuate the school. There are rules, Trip, even in war. We have to help these children."
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Trek Tek Classic Phaser
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Thanks. 
I remembered it was bad and now it is WORSE. LOL
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
----
"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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