... the elements of what makes a good ST movie.
They can bring back all sorts of characters, all sorts of situations... and the movie can still suck. That was proven with Generations, Regurgitation (or whatever it was really called; I forget) and Nemesis.
Why did these movies suck so badly? IMHO, it was several factors :
- the snippets of info about the movie promised much, but sucked totally in execution
- the continuity issues were poorly handled (for crying out loud, *everyone* has a VCR these these days, and the franchise's followers are fanatical about detail)
- but most of all, the stories really SUCKED.
In "Generations", we were 'promised' the return of Kirk. What did they do with Kirk? Wasted him! They have bumble around on the bridge of the Enterprise 'B' before getting to him run around in a sandpit only to be shot in the back. "....and Whoopi Goldberg will be in Generations..." Another stupid waste of talent and bad story telling.
In "Insurrection" (oh dear, just remembered the name; ugh, I never should have exhumed the memory) we had another lame story. This time, the movie opened with Data running around like a lunatic. Yawn! Where was the insurrection? "Ooops, we forgot about that. Sorry!"
For "Nemesis" we were 'promised' Romulus, but what we got was an over-long search for B9 or whoever (wonder if the "B" stood for Braga?) and Picard reviving the Paris - Dakar which had no real point to the key story.
They could have done great things with the Romulans and Nemesis.. but, what did we get? Shazon and Picard gawking at each other. Bleh. And it was said the sequence in ST1 inside the V'ger cloud was s l o w ...
Ah, the waste of potential...
Why did First Contact, Wrath Of Kahn, and The Undiscovered Country work so well? I think it's because we were given elements of canon in each (although the portrayal of Cochraine as a drunk seemed unforgivable at the time...). It was because an effort was made to keep *one* plotline moving throught the movie .. and it was stuff the audience wanted to see. Borg. Klingons. Kahn.
These movies worked because they had great stories. Like, the story *moved*, and got the audience *interested*. They also had elements of the most thought-provoking stories of the original TV series at their core.
A 'prequel'? LMAO. Pardon me for saying so... but, it's not a way of getting kid (read: cheaper) actors into Starfleet uniforms to play our heros and doing a version of Starfeet Orange Alert County, or San Fransciso 90210... is it? History recalls that one's been tried before.
(Oh good heavens? Is my cynisism showing?)
Tell you what, Rick; you want to make a buck on the next Trek movie? Give us a decent support cast, not like that horrible dude in "Insurrection" .. keep Dougherty out. Give us Q. Give us a decent story, maybe involving Cardassia and have some sort of parallel with the Afganistan or Iraq situation... that kind of story worked so well in TOS where Kirk et al commented on real world events in a fictional, scifi setting. Give us support characters we actually want to see and give a damn about and a support cast that knows what they're doing. If you want to pay the bucks to hire top name actors, use them properly; don't rely on them to pull in the crowds if you've got a rotten story at the core of your movie, because - get this -- the crowds won't be there.
Find a writer that cares about the franchise and knows what elements make a good ST story. And send Brannon off on a workshop in .. I don't know, some place with advanced technology ... like Sphincter, Kentucky, for the duration.
The point is, boring the fans of the show so they disown it and making movies so bad that non-fans don't want to see it isn't going to make dollars for the franchise.
Listen to your audience, Rick.. or, what's left of them.
(Oh, btw.. hello all! I'm new here. Sorry, I won't make a habit of ranting like this...)
I'd be willing to bet that this idea that he's referring to begins in TREK's far far future and follows some temporal operatives into the past as they attempt to "repair" the silliness(sp?) that they aired with ENT. That is to say that this will be a major excercise in damage control for the series.
STAR TREK fans from all over the world have voiced their opinions and have cited continuity and canonical facts, observations and speculations on BBS's like this one with such stone cold and iron clad logic with a fervor that simply cannot be ignored. If Berman really focuses on what he's doing, the story of ENTERPRISE might actually be acceptable in the new context. I know that some people might think I'm giving Berman too much credit, but in all honesty, I don't think he wants to be remembered as the ultimate STAR TREK villain. Setting things right is the least he could do after dissapointing millions of people with his apparently mistaken view of STAR TREK under his watch.
This is Rick Berman's chance to redeem himself. The basic ideas behind STAR TREK are wonderful, it's a shame that it had to go the way it did during ENT's first two years. ENT has attracted some new viewers into the STAR TREK family who think that those of us who demand certain things from STAR TREK are nuts for not accepting faulty writing, bad characterizations, blatant disregard for continuity of ideas, ENT was a brand new thing for many new viewers and I don't think they'll ever really understand what it is that disgusts the rest of the viewership about ENT. But the fans have spoken, and I think we've been heard. STAR TREK simply cannot survive in the form that Rick Berman and Brannon Braga tried to foist on the public with ENTERPRISE.
Mr. Berman, you have one more shot at this, since you're still apparently in charge, I hope you succeed. But if you don't, please abdicate your throne.
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"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here."
Could it be Berman is mentioning it in vague terms to gauge fan reaction? Not that they seem to have cared too much in the past...
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The supervisor is Verizon!
People already hate it and they don't even know what it's about. Priceless. :-D
However, given the slippery slope that the television/film arm of the franchise is on for the last three years, I continue to be baffled that they are seriously considering doing another film and a prequel at that.
Just where do they think the audience is for this? After Nemesis tanked and ratings for Enterprise continue to go down even after their attempts to shake things up, I can't imagine what they could do.
If that last line in the story is true, perhaps we could be looking at the first film-only crew that would follow Enterprise but be before TOS. If Season 4 is really Enterprise's last (and I've never heard anything official saying it is), they might be looking for something in 2006. Who knows? There's no point in speculating now.
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You mention a theory that the film might feature a crew set after ST: Enterprise but before TOS.
This peaks my interest, I would love to see the USS Enterprise before ant refit with Captain Christopher Pike in command. I've always dreamed of seeing the NCC-1701 pre-refit on the big screen.
I'm sure they can find an actor who looks enough like... oh what's his name again. Besides you white folks all look the same to me anyway. :)
(hehehe...sorry I could help it)
Anyway, anything Trek related that Berman touches is bound to end in disaster.
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My suspicion is that Berman has to present something as an alternative to the disasters he's helmed the last few years--his viability with the ST franchise is already tenuous, and he needs to tapdance pretty well to keep from being marginalized even more.
Of course, the prequel doesn't have to relate directly to the Federation; it could be a series of films from different alien perspectives, with a few Starfleet personnel along for continuity. We might actually see a story that focuses primarily on the formation of the Romulan Empire, for instance.
Whatever form they take, the films likely will be aimed at a younger audience than previous ones, feature lots of computer animation (if not simply be animated), and lack much depth in concept/thought but be full of jargon and character angst. I'd expect something that feels more like a live-action version of "Thundercats" than a traditional ST film--lots of explosions and shiny things, and with a story that keeps plunging forward but without much dramatic momentum.
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Quote:
My suspicion is that Berman has to present something as an alternative to the disasters he's helmed the last few years
An interesting theory.
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Of course, the prequel doesn't have to relate directly to the Federation; it could be a series of films from different alien perspectives, with a few Starfleet personnel along for continuity. We might actually see a story that focuses primarily on the formation of the Romulan Empire, for instance.
Too much of a niche idea. It's an admirable idea, but given how TPTB can't get an audience interested in a mostly human crew, I don't see that ever happening.
A prequel series hasn't worked so lets do a movie?
its just not something I want to see I'm afraid. Do they have a marketing team?!!!!
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so no, they don't have a marketing team.
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"Outer Space: The Last Frontier.
These are the trips of the Star Trek Enterprise. Its five year plan calls for us to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly fly where no man has gone in space. Live long, and be happy."
Patrick Stewart--SNL, Stardate 9402.05
I wonder if the "prequel" will be of the Kirk/Spock/Academy days. I mean hey, Berman has screwed up everything but the original series, so might as well go full circle. But if the next Berman project is a bust like Nemesis and Enterprise, I think its time Paramount took the blame. They're the dummies that authorize and sign the cheques.
Seems to me Berman has a little too much "faith of the heart" and needs to stop listeneing to that freak'n theme song already!!
what era this will take place in but it'll be interesting to see a different type of Trek on the big screen. I think the fan deep down in all of us always hopes the next movie will be the best we've ever seen, so that tiny ember of excitement turns into a flame (good or bad) the more we hear about it.
My opinion is to get Michael Jan Friedman involved in the story no matter what. He's done some great TNG and TOS prequel work.
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"Outer Space: The Last Frontier.
These are the trips of the Star Trek Enterprise. Its five year plan calls for us to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly fly where no man has gone in space. Live long, and be happy."
Patrick Stewart--SNL, Stardate 9402.05
yeah we know what this is. this is because ent will wrap up season4 but they'll need to explain why kirk, picard, etc. never mentioned archer so they'll need the film to do so. i bet the film is a time traveling thing to bring back picard, archer, possibly kirk. it's just sooo stupid. i hope none of the cast will agree to do it. a trilogy (like lotr or star wars) would do star trek some good. but the story needs to be epic quality for that to happen.
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LET THEM DIE!!!
It could be a prequel to the TNG era, the original series era or somewhere in between. 80 years of Star Trek have yet to be explored on screen.
If they want to excite the masses I still feel that Sulu is the way to go, returning the series to the 23rd century. Star Trek movies used to be an event. Put a movie into development that features Kirk era Star Trek and it could be the spark that reignites interest and what made Star Trek great.
Looking to the past may save Star Trek's future.
It could be a prequel to the TNG era, the original series era or somewhere in between. 80 years of Star Trek have yet to be explored on screen.
If they want to excite the masses I still feel that Sulu is the way to go, returning the series to the 23rd century. Star Trek movies used to be an event. Put a movie into development that features Kirk era Star Trek and it could be the spark that reignites interest and what made Star Trek great.
Looking to the past may save Star Trek's future.
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Oh hell yeah. Sorry I usaully make comment with I bit more eloquence than that, but its friday.
A serious, epic and grandious adventure involving Capt. Sulu of the USS Excelsior would be a big boost to the franchise. I agree that many people will reply to this and say that this is simply beating a dead horse. (honestly though, wouldn't it be hilarious to see some idiot beating on a dead horse on you way home from work) And many others are not really interested in seeing the Sulu adventures. But be honest, even people who not really all that interested in seeing Sulu's adventures would come around to see a Trek film centered around Sulu. You would definitely have a better turn out than for Nemesis.
...Dead Franchise Walking...
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Quack!!!
I have FULL FAITH in Rick Berman and his Star Trek projects. You people should stop saying nasty things about him or anyone else! I'm sick to death of it!
Maybe it IS about Starfleet academy, but NOT about Kirk and Co. That would seem to jibe with AICN interpreting the info wrong.
If they wait until a year or more after Ep III, they could catch genre fans looking for a new scifi epic. It could work...
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The supervisor is Verizon!
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I really don´t know if we should be condeming this new "idea/rumor" to death before we even know the tiniest fact about it! Berman has done some good things to Trek, even though I think he held more things back than he brought forward. I simply get mad when they all talk about a PREQUEL movie, cause it seems that not a single Fan really wants that. The problem with prequels in general is that we all know just to well that everything will turn out allright and timetravel/alternate timeline stuff, as well as it may work on Enterprise, I think it would not work on the big screen, even in a trilogie !!! And I really wanna know so many things about the future of the Trek Universe... Perhaps introduce a new enemy some years after the incident at Romulus with a new Romulan/Federation alliance. There are so many epics to be told in Star Trek !!!
But, I read the "Nemesis" script half a year before it came to the big screen and that script WAS EPIC beyond anything I have ever seen/read on Star Trek. Still somehow, though I really enjoied Nemesis, they turned it into a mediocre movie and even though part of the story was still epic (they partly cut it to death), it didn´t seem epic. The Romulan Senate, the Scimitar Bridge it all seemed... low budget to me !!!
In the End it comes down to budget and the other people involved, since Berman has never written a movie all by himself !
Greetings,
Christian
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Live Long and Prosper
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I really don´t know if we should be condeming this new "idea/rumor" to death before we even know the tiniest fact about it!
We know Rick Berman is 'very involved' in it. Givn the quality of the last two movies Berman has been invlved in, to say nothing of Enterprise, we can make informed guesses at what to expect.
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I don´t agree since: 1. I like Enterprise and I hate Voyager (both creted by Berman)
2. Nemesis Script was SUPERB and it was cut to death (due to Paramount, who wanted a 2 hour movie even though the first cut was 45 minutes longer, and due to Baird´s idiotic cutting)
3. And he created DS9 but I do believe that if he had stayed in charge himself, the series would not have turned out to be what it was !
Greetz,
Christian
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Live Long and Prosper
Quote:"Berman reiterates that he is "very much involved" in the project and that calling it a "prequel" is indeed "valid.""
Is this old fossil so senile that he thinks that fans actually care to see him do another movie? The next film is going to suck to so bad! It just amazes me that Paramount after the last 5 years of shitty trek and 2 bomb movies. That they would give this incompetent moron another shot at another movie. I will not spend a dime watching another shitty Berman Trek film. Especially this retarded prequel idea.
A "prequel"...not again!
ENT isn't working. What makes them think a prequel movie will? Again, more jumping on the Star Wars band wagon. Rick Berman wishes so bad he was George Lucas.
I wonder if J'Ho is going to have another movie coming out when this next disaster comes out so that they have something to blame its failure on.
That's horrible! I hate Rick Berman!!!
Hey, if every single post is saying the exact same thing, does it really matter if two of those posts are by the same author?
"There is a film concept that is in discussion," Berman tells journalist Ian Spelling. "I am very much involved in it.
Oh dear lord...if Berman is "very much involved in it" then it's surely doomed! DOOMED!!! A true disaster waiting to happen...the last nail in Trek's coffin.
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JOKE OF THE CENTURY!!!
When asked how Gene Roddenberry would feel, about Berman's handling of Trek...since his death. Berman responded, "I think he'd be very pleased. I think he'd be proud of what we're doing."
Quote:
"I am very much involved in it." ...Berman reiterates that he is "very much involved".
Is he trying to rub it in or something?
Maybe this is why Shatner will be appearing on Enterprise next season: Berman is buttering him up for the prequels (to have him appear to legitimise a recasting in a flashback form)
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"Men don't use sex to get what they want. Sex IS what they want" - Frasier
Rick Berman's talent for talking a lot without actually SAYING anything never ceases to amaze me. Ever since he took Star Trek's reins, whenever he's been asked anything in an interview, he can rehash stuff that's already been said by the interviewer or outside sources and never really answer a question. I'd try to give you an example, but there are way too many to choose from. Just go and read any Q & A with him in back issues of the Star Trek Fan Club magazine. You'll see what I mean.
Quote from GustavoLeao:
Berman reiterates that he is "very much involved" in the project and that calling it a "prequel" is indeed "valid." Previous reports indicated that it was not related to STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE and it appears we're still a ways off from learning anything more substantial about this project.
Whether or not the new film is directly related to ENT, the sinking TV series is what a potential audience will picture when deciding if they'll pay to see (more of) a Berman Trek "prequel". Paramount should consider that this is a recipe for failure.
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Chiana -- Escapee from Nebari Prime
You can only hope that this will be about the Romulan Wars. I can't remember which of the B's it was that didn't want to do the Romulan War, hopefully it wasn't him. Hopefully, it will follow TO THE LETTER what we know about the Romulan Wars from "Balance of Terror" and "The Defector."
What we know about the Romulan Wars:
No human or ally ever saw the other.
They have those A-type birds of prey.
They SHOULD NOT have cloaking devices yet.
It probably started at star station Salem 1.
It ended with a humiliating defeat at Charon (for the Romulans)
The Neutral Zone is established
Andorians, humans, Tellarites, and Vulcans are probably in this war together, and create the United Federation of Planets as an alliance to deter further aggression (a la NATO), and explore the galaxy.
It should end with the signing of the Federation Charter in that room we saw in "Zero Hour." Perhaps they could even put in Archer and Daniels standing up in that balcony, and as Archer signs the charter, he remembers he was there 7 years ago from his time, and smiles as he looks up at himself. Then it ends with the dramatic music, like TMP did.
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"So, how many years until your Pon Farr comes around again?"
-Trip
If HE is involved, it will suck.
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LOL
But his contract goes until 2006 so perhaps that will be the swansong. ;-)
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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If that's the case every TREK series has sucked since TOS.
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Hoshi: I was hoping you'd put up a fight.
T'Pol: I'm surprised you're not exhausted from all the beds, you've jumped into, recently.
"In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II"
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If that's the case every TREK series has sucked since TOS.
Ummm.... Roddenberry didn't die until 1991 - at the beginning of the 5th season of TNG and Berman ended up more involved with VOY and the new network "UPN" than DS9. And don't forget that Michael Piller was also there as a showrunner.
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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Yes but he's been involved in each Star Trek show (except TOS) in one way or another. Watched season 6 or 7 episode 'Pagasus' at the end Executive Producer Rick Berman.
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Hoshi: I was hoping you'd put up a fight.
T'Pol: I'm surprised you're not exhausted from all the beds, you've jumped into, recently.
"In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II"
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Yes but he's been involved in each Star Trek show (except TOS) in one way or another.
He wasn't involved in TAS. ;-)
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Watched season 6 or 7 episode 'Pagasus' at the end Executive Producer Rick Berman.
Paramount made him the "manager" of the franchise after Roddenberry died and he took over the role of final sign-off on what was presented on the air and onscreen. However one can clearly see where he put his influence and how folks like Piller, Neuss, Taylor, Behr, and Moore left in a huff.
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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Berman has been in charge with the nuts and bolts of production since part way through TNG's first season, and it was both Roddenberry and Paramount who put him there. It's only recently (i.e. Enterprise) that he's heavily involved himself with the writing staff. All of the people listed worked on Star Trek for a very long time, and their reasons for leaving run the gamut.
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Berman has been in charge with the nuts and bolts of production since part way through TNG's first season, and it was both Roddenberry and Paramount who put him there.
Don't leave out Piller. There's this tendency around here to ignore him despite his being Co-exec with Berman, and co-creator of DS9 & VOY.
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It's only recently (i.e. Enterprise) that he's heavily involved himself with the writing staff. All of the people listed worked on Star Trek for a very long time, and their reasons for leaving run the gamut.
As I said - he is a manager and since 1991, has been the final sign-off on what gets put on the air.
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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Piller ran the writing staff(s), whereas Berman was the primary overseer of all aspects of the series. That doesn't diminish Piller, who's easily the most important creative force behind Star Trek after Roddenberry. However, the implication was that the people listed left the show directly because of something Berman did. Most of the people listed left because of creative differences coming out of the writing staff, or simply because they moved on.
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Piller ran the writing staff(s), whereas Berman was the primary overseer of all aspects of the series.
As I have said over and over and over. Berman was manager. THAT is what he was selected to do. However Berman reported to Roddenberry who was the final sign-off until 1991 when he took on that role and Piller had also been in the running as he was a Co-exec producer along with Berman.
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That doesn't diminish Piller, who's easily the most important creative force behind Star Trek after Roddenberry. However, the implication was that the people listed left the show directly because of something Berman did. Most of the people listed left because of creative differences coming out of the writing staff, or simply because they moved on.
That is what I wrote earlier in this thread but people have essentially ignored the existence of Piller, who was also co-creator of DS9 and VOY.
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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