TrekWeb.com - An Evening With Brannon Braga: Scribe Talks STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT at Hollywood Screening

An Evening With Brannon Braga: Scribe Talks STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT at Hollywood Screening

By Steve Krutzler / 04:42, 16 June 2004 / TrekWeb Features

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Dressed in blue jeans and a white button-down, Brannon Braga told fans Tuesday night that the original idea for STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT was “the Borg and the Bubonic plague” in medieval times. Drones of the roundtable didn’t pan out, however, when “Patrick Stewart didn’t want to wear tights,” Braga joked while introducing the film to fans and movie aficionados gathered at the ArcLight Cinemas in Hollywood to celebrate the eighth STAR TREK movie with a special screening and Q&A session sponsored by Hollywood’s Master Storytellers.

Grossing $92 million domestically, FIRST CONTACT was the most successful of the four TNG films, second only to ST4’s $109 million. FC owns the record for the largest opening weekend take for any STAR TREK film, raking in over $30 million dollars in 1996, and quickly becoming a fan favorite. In fact, having been able to catch the last act of NEMESIS on HBO Monday night, it’s difficult to deny FIRST CONTACT’s place as a great STAR TREK film.

Although co-writer Ronald D. Moore and producer Rick Berman agreed with Braga on putting the Borg front and center in the big screen follow-up to GENERATIONS, that’s about all they knew early on.

“When we started we knew we wanted to do something with the Borg,” he recalled. “We knew the Borg were really, really popular on TNG. We really wanted to incorporate time travel. We were really fortunate that this idea came along to set it in the near future because what’s at stake in the movie really is STAR TREK. If the Vulcans don’t land, the universe the audience has come to know and love will not exist. And then the third element to the film to come along was the idea of the great Zephram Cochran, who I think was depicted in TOS. We thought it would be interesting to have this crew meet Zephram Cochran, but he is not anything like anybody thinks--he’s a drunk. Kind of the antithesis of Gene Roddenberry’s ideals, and show how he got to be by the end of the film thanks in part to these heroes.”

At the heart of the success of FIRST CONTACT was its ability to connect with general audiences, Braga says, people who weren’t necessarily familiar with the entire STAR TREK mythos.

“Just to set it in a post-apocalyptic future was sort of more relatable to a general audience and the people who weren’t familiar with STAR TREK could appreciate what STAR TREK was all about,” Braga explained. “We created this character of Lily, played by Alfre Woodard, who knew nothing about STAR TREK because she knows nothing of the future. So this was a character to sort of introduce to the audience what STAR TREK was all about, and the philosophy of STAR TREK and what it means.”

Contemplating anecdotes to share with the audience, Braga admitted in his best deadpan, “I’ve got none,” to an uproarious crowd. “The only one...” he said, reaching for a tidbit. “The movie has a nice sweep to it and it feels like an epic Borg battle. But, in fact, creating an individual drone was very expensive. And we could only afford eight Borg, So really though it looks like there are a lot of Borg running around, there are only eight dudes! The rest are dummies that our makeup artist Michael Westmore created. We used that template for years to come on VOYAGER where we really expanded on the Borg mythos. It’s one of the reasons people like to watch this movie--we exploited the Borg ad nauseum years later, but they never looked better than they looked here.”

Getting them to look that way wasn’t easy, moderator Dennis Michael Revealed. Speaking of director Jonathan Frakes’s challenges during the shoot, he explained how Frakes was concerned with getting the immobile drones to register some movement in the frame.

“My feeling was if you get caught by the Borg you deserved to be caught because they’re like the Mummy,” Braga joked. “They don’t have weapons; they just sort of swing their arms at you, how threatening can they be? But to [Jonathan’s] credit he did a great job with them.”

Alice Krige added a lot of vivaciousness to the previously steely Collective. Braga says the studio really wanted a “voice” for the villains of the piece, and the ringing cacophony of the drones speaking at once--good enough for television--wasn’t going to cut it.

“We had the Borg for a while and I remember Jonathan Dolgen, chairman of Viacom at the time, said we ‘need a voice for the Borg.’ ‘These Borg are just automatons, and that worked for the series.’ ‘No, this is a movie, you need something [more].’,” he recounted. “So we came up with the idea of the Borg Queen, which really brought a lot to the movie--then the Data becoming more human arc was born.”

“I really liked [Krige] from the movie GHOST STORY because she had a creepy sexiness, which I thought was perfect for the Borg Queen, who was sort of a kinky, weird lady,” Braga continued. “We thought the Borg Queen should be a sensual character, tantalizing Data with the prospect of flesh. One of my favorite moments in the film is that little patch of skin that she blows on--the blow job scene [laughter]--and the little goosebumps that came up, I thought that was really cool. There has always been an element of sensuality to some degree in ST, like the moment in the film when Data says he’s fully functional, that was in the first season of TNG. There’s always a playful sensuality.”

The inspiration for the torso-separated Queen came from an unlikely place.

“There was this movie called CAPTAIN EO at Disneyland, and that was still running around the time of this movie, and Angelica Houston played this scary lady that came down on cables from the ceiling. We liked that,” he says with an eerie fascination. “And I remember discussing that that was a cool image for the Borg Queen, and we did a version of it.”

Michael went so far as to suggest that Krige’s turn as the Queen makes FIRST CONTACT the “kinkiest” of all the STAR TREK movies. Braga quickly retorted, “Well yes, but I thought in INSURRECTION when Data and the boy come out of the haystack, that was pretty sexy!”

The opportunity to see the film on the big screen is rare and FIRST CONTACT plays great to the audience. Just about all the funny lines get a collective laugh and it’s amazing just how many memorable scenes the film contains. From Counselor Troi’s drunken haze to Cochran’s antiheroic ramblings, Dixon Hill, and the EMH and Barclay’s cameos, FIRST CONTACT has an engaging story and plenty of meat to keep the eyes and mind happy. As successful as Marina Sirtis’ bar hijinks play out, Braga revealed he thought the scene should’ve been cut.

“It’s interesting and I only speak for myself, but I didn’t like that scene, I thought it should’ve been cut,” he says. “The reason is that the film is bouncing along, Data and Picard have their guns and they’re ready to ‘go fight the Borg,’ and then you have this sort of long scene, and I didn’t really think it was very funny.” He turns to the audience, “But did you guys like that scene?” [cue applause] “That’s good to hear, but I obviously didn’t win that battle.”

After so many episodes and so many movies, Braga told the audience it’s hard to come up with completely original stories. Even still, he said Gene Roddenberry’s universe and its underlying rules foster good storytelling.

“This is just my opinion but I think constrictions are good when you’re trying to write drama,” he said. “You want parameters and I personally love Gene’s universe and I don’t want to write for a show where people are at each other’s throats, it’s more interesting to do it metaphorically through the aliens that they meet and so forth. Although we did find times to have the characters in conflict, for instance here with Picard and Worf.”

The franchise itself keeps on trekking, with a fourth season of STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE on the way and a new feature project--with which Brannon says he has no involvement--in the very early developmental stages.

“Will it take a rest? Frankly I think it probably should at some point. I just don’t know,” he offered as an assessment of the overall health of the franchise. He does know UPN’s decision to move ENTERPRISE to a new night could be good news for the series. “I think it’s good. Right now we’re up against AMERICAN IDOL for god sakes! You might as well not air the episodes! Now we’re on Friday nights and I think people will seek it out. We had a great season. In part due to a writer named Manny Coto, who’s right there in the audience,” as Braga pointed him out. “He wrote some great shows. We’re very happy to have been picked up.”

Some fans want to know whether ‘Q’, at the top of his game in Braga and Moore’s Hugo Award-winning TNG finale “All Good Things...,” will pop up in the prequel.

“We always talk about it. Q kind of got de-fanged over the years. He was so great at the end of the finale of TNG and then he came back on DS9 and VOY and he was fairly soft. So if we bring Q back we want to bring him back with an edge to him.”

That episode, regarded by many fans as one of the greatest TREK episodes ever, remains a high point in Braga’s career.

“Ron Moore and myself wrote for days while we were writing GENERATIONS�"and we joke [now] that ‘All Good Things...’ should’ve been the movie because it would’ve made a better movie. But it was really a blur and we were worried that we did not do that great series justice, but it really came out so well. The fan response over the years has been so enthusiastic and embracing that I think overall that has been one of the great moments.”

Another is appearing briefly in FIRST CONTACT’s Holodeck sequence.

“For a millisecond I’m actually in the far right side of the frame, which is a real drag because on cable they don’t run the letterbox so I’m not in it at all!”

Paramount is expected to release a new DVD of STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT next year. The next collector's edition on the way is STAR TREK: GENERATIONS, dropping September 7th.

Check out ROBOCOP Tuesday, June 29th as the Hollywood's Master Storytellers summer series continues with actor Peter Weller at the ArcLight in Hollywood.

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Goodbye Braga, hello improved STAR TREK | Report this post to moderator
By: Deslok 2 (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:44:32 on Jun 17, 2004

I feel that this Q+A with Brannon is a sign that better things are coming for ENT and STAR TREK. Hey, the guy is moving on to greener pastures, he needs the best public image he can get since he has been crucified on STAR TREK related websites that don't censor content for a very long time now.

Braga has done good and bad for the STAR TREK franchise, but his biggest crime (along with Rick Berman) was to stay too long. These guys ceased to be creative or vital about six or seven years ago, if not longer. I think they're trapped in an idea of what they "think" science fiction, particularly STAR TREK is all about. I have read fanfic written by kids aged 10 to 17 that were nearly flawless, kept canon and continuity intact and were not only readable but enjoyable and fun. I hope some of those kids are pursuing careers as sci-fi writers today.

I've never understood people who defend Braga with only his past achievements. I think the question that must be asked is "What has B done for US lately? The answer is "not much". A ruined version of what could have been an absolutely brilliant and potentially the best TREK series, barring none. Braga is a moderately talented hack with an incredible amount of good luck, perhaps he'll have better luck with his next project (perhaps a writing credit on Mission Impossible 3?). To hear him talk about his "work" is laughable. Braga is full of shit, top to bottom. I know feature film producers, and it's true that there are always forces within the studio that work against one's "creative" directions and all, but I wonder if Braga has EVER fought for something he believed in? The answer is... "how could he be expected to, he has no vision for STAR TREK. All he does is throw a bunch of spaghetti at the wall and waits to see what sticks. If Brannon Braga is remembered for anything, it won't be the good things that he has done for STAR TREK it will be the bad, the negative and the abysmal literary rabbit pellets he sold the studio, representing them to be magic beans that would grow a beanstalk. The beanstalk never grew, and now it's time for new blood at the house that STAR TREK built.

Brannon Braga... don't let the door hit ya on the way out! For those who adore Brannon Braga, just log onto brannonbraga.com where there is a continuous luv-fest all the time. Unrealistic, yes, but a luv-fest all the same.

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"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here."

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RE: Goodbye Braga, hello improved STAR TREK | Report this post to moderator
By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 01:00:39 on Jun 17, 2004

The good things that he contributed only take the form of individual episodes that he wrote. He's had no lasting effect on Star Trek as a whole, unlike Michael Piller, Ira Behr, Ronald Moore, etc. So if it weren't for the bad things he's done, he wouldn't be remembered at all.

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- RE: Goodbye Braga, hello improved STAR TREK | Report this post to moderator
  By: Deslok 2 (Odo's file, contact) @ 04:27:10 on Jun 19, 2004
  
  I absolutely agree with you. He has delusions of grandeur, despite the "humble" tone he takes in his appearances. I truly fail to understand what it is that his fans find so captivating. That anyone would find his work to be more than even average is confounding. He lives in an illusory world, one where he really thinks he knew what would be good for the health of the STAR TREK franchise.
  
  Now that he is out of the picture (so to speak) I feel no more ill feelings toward him, I still resent how he ruined TREK for so many people. If ENTERPRISE were a sinking ship (which it was), he would be bailing the water out with a seive (which he was). His next project could very well be phenomenal, but I doubt it.
  
  Anyway, he's outta there, and ENT and the rest of TREK stands an extremely improved chance of rising to it's former glory someday. He's like the guy who goes to a party and stays far too long, gets drunk and drops a turd in the punch bowl. Brannon Braga will be missed, but not by fans of STAR TREK, only by fans of faulty characterizations, bad plot developments, gratuitous massage scenes, and catsuits.
  
  It's a pity, if he really understood STAR TREK and bothered to watch TOS, he might have been something, but he's a loser and I don't care what happens to him next. As I said before, his next project may actually be cool, in which case, it will be apparrent that he was writing for the wrong show... well, that was obvious already anyway.
  
  --------
  
  "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here."
  
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All Good Things - blah | Report this post to moderator
By: Nitride (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:07:15 on Jun 16, 2004 | (1)

I really didn't like All Good Things. It meandered all over the place with these "new" endpoints for all the characters that kinda sorta gave us an answer to what *may* happen down the road.

Of course, the series was not going away forever, it was merely transforming into a film franchise. The future story lines and "Warp 13" were so out of place it was comical. But the fans explain it away so that it makes some kind of sense (because the writers certainly didn't make anything that makes sense).

So how does a medical doctor become the captain of a starship anyway? Night school? Affirmative Action? Warp 13 and the big bubble starship that looks like some leftover prop from TOS! Bwahahahaha!

The best tv series-to-movie transition was with The X-Files. We ended the season with an open story arc, got a movie that continued right where we left of (largely) in the arc, filled in a LOT of details and so on, and we got back to the series picking up right where the movie left off. Brilliant!

The first TNG movie was oddly paced; Enterprise B with an inept Captain (how did he get to be Captain if he can't handle a non-combat crisis?), Guinan somehow central to the whole movie as nothing more than a anthropomorphic transporter to let the story jump from one place to another with seeming continuity.

First Contact is right next to Star Trek II in my list of top movies. At least it was interesting to watch, unlike Insurrection or Nemesis and especially All Good Things.

Picard coming unglued as he sought revenge against the Borg was awesome (Captain Ahab of the Future), oh yeah and he was fighting to preserve the future and stuff (Time Travel as plot-crutch, now the entire basis of the fourth Star Trek series). You can tell when writers aren't trying very hard when time travel is introduced to solve whatever problem the characters/story has in it.

All other Star Trek TNG movies never reached the level of First Contact because they were filled with wishy-washy limp-wristed story lines. Nemesis wouldn't even have happened if Enterprise had waited a week or so based on the rapid deterioration of Picard's clone.

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RE: All Good Things - blah | Report this post to moderator
By: Sabotman (Odo's file, contact) @ 02:40:46 on Jun 17, 2004

The Trouble with Tribbles ain't my favorite episode of TOS, I find City on the Edge of Forever the best.
Don't believe me?
Do this. If you could have someone who's never seen Trek watch 1 hour of Trek to get it, what episode would you choose?
City does it far better than Tribbles.
Not that Tribbles is a bad episode, City just does Trek better.
All Good Things, despite a few things was a great way to end the show.
Around these parts I got to see it on a huge [Sky Dome] screen, that made the whole thing larger than life.
Crusher a captain? Why not? Do you think she got her a Commander rank out of pity?
Bubble ship? This is outer space. Gravity is just not the same out there. For the last episode they decided to toss in a new ship or two. Instead of saying "well that's different" you say "that sucks"
I guess no ship is better than any ship.
Warp 13? Watch TOS. Watch TNG. Are the Warp scales different? No one on air ever said they were, it was self evident. Could the Warp scale be different in 20+ years? Could be.
ST:Generations. That was buddies first real command. Top that, he's got one of the greatest star ship captains in Star Fleet history on his bride. Nervous? Ya.
Look at the Captain from ST:III, he was more of a weenie. "By the book...". No loss to the fleet when he got blown-up.
The X-Files thing. Now that's where you get off the train.
If ever a big few million dollar reset button, this was it.
Nothing that happened in the movie went anywhere.
Did Scully & Mulder get together after it? Not for years.
Hey remember that guy who's car blew up with him in it?
I mean we all saw Mulder get out & the car drive & blow up with no one getting out.
Next season, hey guess who's in town again?
They never went back about the bees again.
Hey didn't Mulder run outta gas? In the Antarctic? That's why he had to walk to the ship.
Then the big cliché. Mulder sees the ship fly off as Scully wakes up. Then she's awake but the ship is gone.
Did she remember how she got to Antarctica? Why she was in Antarctica? Did anyone mention this again after the first episode of the next season?
By the way, how many times were the X-Files shut down again?
I think I watched like 2 or 3 episodes before I turned my back on the X-Files finally.
I remember Gillian saying Chris was the mother of all true creation.
Strange how his show was like 5 shows before his [one even being a low buget Canadian show too! Same m/o].
And how every other show he made was just like the X-Files or an X-Files episode?
Millenium? Hard Realm? The Visitor? Lone GunMen?
Real fountain of creation here.
If you wanna bash about here's where your nose bleeds.
Even the great J Michael Skfghfgjh who created B-5 in it's entirety back in '62, before Gene made Star Trek so no one could say he got any ideas from that.
Ya, what he wrote back in '62 was exactly what we saw on tv, word for word.
Ya, he knew he was going to write off the first B-5 Commander & it worked out so well when that guy wanted to leave.
Yaknow, he writes comics from time to time.
His first Spider-Man story [fans raved for months about it] is full of continuity re-writes.
The dude he fights, Spidey's like "he's like no one I've fought before. I can't stop him, he just keeps coming".
Original except Spidey said the same thing [in the same universe/time line to, eh] 15-20 of real years ago when he fought this dude called the Juggernaught.
Funny, Jug's tag is like "nothing can stop the Juggernaught".
I guess J M didn't need to read about Spidey other than his name to spin out such original works.
Like Tribbles & City some TNG movies are better Trek than others. Sure had Enterprise taken another week the clone would have been dead, but the Enterprise was a convienance, not part B of his destroy all life on Earth plan.
He wanted fries w/ ketchup & he also got some salt w/ it. Big deal.
Had the Enterprise stayed at the Neutral Zone in FC the UFP wouldn't exist and neither FC, Insuruction or Nemesis would have happened.
If time travel is such a crutch, what should it be replaced with?
A disease threatening all life on Earth? Oh ya, tried that, worked great.
Oh, cowboy style mercenaries. Did little better but not by much? So'kay, I liked the Canadian version called Space Hunter better, made it through 2 seasons it did.
I know, a war with an alien race who actually originated from Earth hundreds of thousands of years before man walked upright.
Shame how in all that time their technology only advanced 20 years.
Oh ya, 22 sad episodes [yes sad, name 2 episodes that featured 1 of the 2 minorities that you could sit through twice].
Best get a big tissue for yer nose.

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RE: All Good Things - blah | Report this post to moderator
By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:50:55 on Jun 16, 2004

The Hugo Award voters disagree. And so do I. AGT is a great episode that summed up the cool scientific attitude of TNG and put some interesting adventure spins on the episode. It was also a clever way to use just about all the TNG recurring characters and even bring back Yar for the last hurrah. Using Q to bookend the series was also genius.

As to Crusher as captain, even in TNG she was taking command courses, so why shouldn't we believe that in the 20+ years (or whatever) that the future took place, she became the captain of a lowly medical ship? Jeez.

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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!

Halen. "The Dream is Over."

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- RE: All Good Things - blah | Report this post to moderator
  By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:46:32 on Jun 16, 2004
  
  Quote:
  she became the captain of a lowly medical ship? Jeez.
  
  HEY! The Pasteur was certainly not "lowly".
  
  (yes I'm bugging you)
  
  --------
  
  "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
  ----
  "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
  
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Adjusted for Inflation? | Report this post to moderator
By: Postdoc (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:24:49 on Jun 16, 2004

Not that it matters about the quality of the movie, but how does an inflation adjustment bring STIV "neck and neck" with STFC. The Voyage Home was released in 1986, a full decade before First Contact, so inflation would raise it higher over First Contact, wouldn't it?
As to STFC, it's not bad, the Borg are an excellent villain. Patrick Stewart's acting is superb, especially in the scene in Ten Forward with Lily. But the alteration of Zefrem Cochrane and the general tone of the show is not so great. STTNG was never an straight out action show, neither was the original series, so sustained corridor phaser battles never did it for me, anyway. As an action sci-fi movie though, FC is pretty good. The TNG movies, with the exception of Insurrection, never really captured the New Age feel of the TV show. Just my penny and a half.

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RE: Adjusted for Inflation? | Report this post to moderator
By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:34:02 on Jun 16, 2004

Quote:
The Voyage Home was released in 1986, a full decade before First Contact, so inflation would raise it higher over First Contact, wouldn't it?

Hmm, you're probably right. But I wrote this at 1 AM, so that probably explains it.

--------

It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!

Halen. "The Dream is Over."

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A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator
By: timmer33 (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:28:29 on Jun 16, 2004

When Nemesis came out you raved about it, and in fact you stated here multiple times how much better it was than First Contact. Now to read your article above it seems like you 've done a 180!

Here's a quote:

"In fact, having been able to catch the last act of NEMESIS on HBO Monday night, it’s difficult to deny FIRST CONTACT’s place as a great STAR TREK film"

You criticized FC as being amateurish and only television quality! You took some of us to task here for saying we didn't like NEM, we hated the music, etc.

Now that you've actually re-viewed FC, I hope you can see everything that NEM promised but could not deliver, right from story, directing, music, script, etc.

You really weren't too objective about NEM when it was released and I hope you are seeing things in a different light after your FC viewing.

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RE: A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator
By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:53:27 on Jun 16, 2004

I still stand by my NEMESIS review. I still stand by my criticisms of the Borg Queen, some of FC's comedy, and other things. However, as I am a human being, I find that my reaction to things--especially movies--may change over time. It is not possible to be "objective" about a movie review because watching a movie is an inherently personal and emotional experience. Even Ebert and Roper do follow ups months later where they sometimes alter their original review. I just feel now after having seen FC on the big screen again, with an audience, and in close proximity to having seen some of NEMESIS on television, that FC is better than I previously thought.

It's like Van Halen. Some days I'm convinced Balance is the best record; other days, 5150; yet other days I won't play anything but Fair Warning. The various analyses of the works at different times are all valid, but my reaction to the work may change. One day a plot hole really pisses me off, another, I could care less.

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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!

Halen. "The Dream is Over."

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- RE: A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator
  By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:13:01 on Jun 16, 2004
  
  "It's like Van Halen. Some days I'm convinced Balance is the best record; other days, 5150; yet other days I won't play anything but Fair Warning."
  
  I have the same problem with Radiohead. Some days I'm convinced "Ok, Computer" is the best; other days "The Bends"; yet other days I wont play anything but "Kid A". ;)
  
  --------
  
  The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
  my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
  breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
  only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
  
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  - RE: A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator
    By: Cymro (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:00:05 on Jun 20, 2004
    
    Similarly, I feel this about Metallica's first five albums, though I do think that most of the time I end up telling myself I like Master Of Puppets best... :)
    
    --------
    
    Dig deep piles of rubble and ruins
    Towering overhead both far and wide
    There's unknown tools for World War III
    Einstein said 'We'll use rocks on the other side'
    
    No survivors!
    
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- RE: A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator
  By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:43:48 on Jun 16, 2004
  
  Quote:
  However, as I am a human being
  
  Are you sure about that? I mean really sure? You could be an android Steve clone for all you and I know.
  
  --------
  
  "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
  ----
  "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
  
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  - RE: A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator
    By: Scorpius (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:42:37 on Jun 16, 2004
    
    No, he's a shapeshifter. A recent article addressed him as Trekweb Founder.
    
    --------
    
    "Men don't use sex to get what they want. Sex IS what they want" - Frasier
    
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More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best! | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:47:56 on Jun 16, 2004

Just when you thought the summer was going to really have nothing new posted we get this idiot and this interview. My God where to begin....

Quote:"And then the third element to the film to come along was the idea of the great Zephram Cochran, who I think was depicted in TOS."

"I think"??? Had Braga even bothered to watch TOS he would of known that they did. There was an entire episode about him. It is clear that they get someone who has watched TOS to give them an outline. Just like Braga thinks the Vulcans and Androians are enemies because he saw a clip of a "blue guy stab Kirk". Braga, his stupidity never seems to end!!!

Quote:"We thought it would be interesting to have this crew meet Zephram Cochran, but he is not anything like anybody thinks--he’s a drunk.

A drunk? Well they must of been when they came up with that dumb idea because in TOS he was not depicted as a drunk. Continuity baby!!!! Go look it up!

Quote:"So this was a character to sort of introduce to the audience what STAR TREK was all about, and the philosophy of STAR TREK and what it means.”

They should of asked her what Star Trek was about because these 2 jackasses don't. Its a case of the blind leading the blind.

Quote:"We used that template for years to come on VOYAGER where we really expanded on the Borg mythos

No the word is "overused" character which people got sick of seeing week after week. Braga was involved in VOY and hence why it sucked so muched. When in doubt do a "Borg or time travel" story to help sagging ratings and shitty direction.

Quote:"Braga says the studio really wanted a “voice” for the villains of the piece, and the ringing cacophony of the drones speaking at once--good enough for television--wasn’t going to cut it.

Why not? By making the "queen" character you took a great idea and turned the borg into "bees". You were told the Borg are all "ONE". There is NO leader. Then FC comes around and they give you a "queen" because some dummy in the studio thought that they knew what fans wanted etc. More of this ridiculous marketing/ so called "research" crap from Paramount. FC took the borg idea and just about ruined it.

Quote:"So we came up with the idea of the Borg Queen, which really brought a lot to the movie--then the Data becoming more human arc was born.”

Yes it brought in a sense of changing the Borg idea again to a point which now contradicted the original premise. NO continuity strikes again with Braga the idiot!

Quote:"“I really liked [Krige] from the movie GHOST STORY because she had a creepy sexiness, which I thought was perfect for the Borg Queen, who was sort of a kinky, weird lady,” Braga continued. “We thought the Borg Queen should be a sensual character, tantalizing Data with the prospect of flesh. One of my favorite moments in the film is that little patch of skin that she blows on--the blow job scene [laughter]--and the little goosebumps that came up, I thought that was really cool. There has always been an element of sensuality to some degree in ST, like the moment in the film when Data says he’s fully functional, that was in the first season of TNG. There’s always a playful sensuality.”

This only proves that Braga needs to get a girlfriend and get laid! Have the "SaveEnterprise.com" people start a "Braga_needs_a_hooker_fund".

Quote:" Michael went so far as to suggest that Krige’s turn as the Queen makes FIRST CONTACT the “kinkiest” of all the STAR TREK movies.

Ridiculous!

Quote:"“Well yes, but I thought in INSURRECTION when Data and the boy come out of the haystack, that was pretty sexy!”

Ridiculous! What a stupid thing to say unless you are a pedophile. I think Braga is a closet homosexual.

Quote:" Braga told the audience it’s hard to come up with completely original stories

He has been out of any ideas for years now. It is time to move on. He thinks he is a writer yet he does no other writing. This so called writer never went out and did other things. Things that help expand a writers mind and make him a better writter. It is good to see that the ego has been bruised and he knows it.

Quote:"Even still, he said Gene Roddenberry’s universe and its underlying rules foster good storytelling.

Please, he never seen TOS and the continuity mistakes are so sloppy. Now he is just mentioning "Gene" in order to get a sound bit from the crowd. How pathetic!

Quote:"“This is just my opinion but I think constrictions are good when you’re trying to write drama,” he said. “You want parameters and I personally love Gene’s universe

WHAT the hell is he talking about? Parameters which he doesn't follow. The mistakes and rehashed stories are a joke and an embarassment to him. How can he love "Gene's universe" when he pisses on the TOS so much. Maybe someone can buy a set of the TOS DVD box sets and give it to him and show him the TRUE foundation of Trek.

Quote:"and I don’t want to write for a show where people are at each other’s throats, it’s more interesting to do it metaphorically through the aliens that they meet and so forth. Although we did find times to have the characters in conflict, for instance here with Picard and Worf.”

What show is he talking about? At each others throats? All the characters I guess have to "hold hands and sing songs". In the early DS9 days, the characters were not "buddy, buddy" and look how good DS9 turned out. Braga sit down and shut up!

Quote:"We had a great season. In part due to a writer named Manny Coto, who’s right there in the audience,” as Braga pointed him out. “He wrote some great shows. We’re very happy to have been picked up.”

No it was in part that they B&B did almost NO writing for it. A season which was dedicated to that boring Xindi arc which they "quickly ended" in order to give us the Nazis. HOW F'ING SAD is this!

Quote:"“We always talk about it. Q kind of got de-fanged over the years. He was so great at the end of the finale of TNG and then he came back on DS9 and VOY and he was fairly soft. So if we bring Q back we want to bring him back with an edge to him.”

Who's fault is that making Q defanged? The WRITERS! THAT IS Braga!! Overing using the character didn't help either! Does this guy think that he does no wrong?

Quote:"“Ron Moore and myself wrote for days while we were writing GENERATIONS�"and we joke [now] that ‘All Good Things...’ should’ve been the movie because it would’ve made a better movie.

Moore and Braga must be idiots! If All Good Things was the movie instead of Generations. It would of TANKED. I would NOT of paided 10 bucks to watch 2 hrs of the "chicken and the egg" mentality of All Good Things.

Maybe they should of done that instead that way they wouldn't of killed Kirk in such a pathetic way!

Quote:"“For a millisecond I’m actually in the far right side of the frame, which is a real drag because on cable they don’t run the letterbox so I’m not in it at all!”

Good! Who the hell wants to see his sorry ass? Maybe except cleaning out your desk at the Paramount lot.

I find this entire interview to be nothing more than "fluff". It has all the "nice" questions and answers". Instead of doing the "typical nice easy" questions. How about having Braga under the microscope? Put him through the ringer and give him the real tough questions. Point out the mistakes and overall decline of Trek due to his poor writing. But no, we get a nice little "Oprah" piece.

Quote

Dear Scorned: | Report this post to moderator
By: Darth Brooks (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:04:52 on Jun 18, 2004

You "should of" checked this site before you posted.

Fondly,

DB

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- RE: Dear Scorned: | Report this post to moderator
  By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:27:27 on Jun 19, 2004
  
  Hey, watch it.
  
  Maybe English isn't his first langauge, just like Archer_Asgaard.
  
  :-)
  
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  - RE: Dear Scorned: | Report this post to moderator
    By: Darth Brooks (Odo's file, contact) @ 01:05:23 on Jun 19, 2004
    
    Maybe outspoken people who make long-winded arguments should learn to sound moderately educated before doing so. ;-)
    
    -DB
    
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    - RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
      By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 02:08:19 on Jun 19, 2004
      
      Maybe outspoken people who can't hold their ground or defeat a particular point. Find themselves having to resort to intense nick picking in order to avoid that point. Too bad it doesn't negate the point that was made. It is merely a way to side track the issue.
      
      I didn't realize that there was going to be a test! Instead of trying to side step my point with this intense nick picking. You could try and addressing what I said with some form of valid point.
      
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      - RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:33:03 on Jun 20, 2004
        
        Quote:
        Maybe outspoken people who can't hold their ground or defeat a particular point. Find themselves having to resort to intense nick picking in order to avoid that point.
        
        This is hilarious becuase this is precisely what you did in your critique (if you can call it that) of the article. So I guess you've just prooved his point that you are such a person who is outspoken and can't hold their ground in an argument.
        
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        RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:06:37 on Jun 20, 2004
        
        Quote:"This is hilarious becuase this is precisely what you did in your critique (if you can call it that) of the article. So I guess you've just prooved his point that you are such a person who is outspoken and can't hold their ground in an argument."
        
        I took the posting and went through it "point by point". I have made my point and defended it so. So I do hold my ground. Going around "ignoring what I said with the grammer issue in the hopes of negating everything I said" is his way of not addressing anything. It is very clear that a lot of people on this board can NOT hold up a valid argument and have to do the "liberal" thing and try to get off topic. So I don't know where you come off with this "I can't hold my own". Seeing how you have only been on this board for 2 days. I suggest you read more and see that I do stick to points.
        
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        RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: rumandchocolate (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:28:10 on Jun 21, 2004
        
        Actually, you didn't go point by point... instead you picked and chose quotes from the article and took them out of context.
        
        You quoted Braga's remark about making Cochrane a drunk, and then harp about continuity and the way Cochrane was first depicted in Metamorphosis. But you conveniently disregarded Braga's words in which he addresses this discrepency... that they were trying to "show how he got to be by the end of the film thanks in part to these heroes." Now, you may not have agreed with the arc or the way they depicted Cochrane. But it's hardly the continuity error you're suggesting it to be in your argument.
        
        Speaking of continuity, how do you address the fact that the Borg's original premise was changed in their second appearance on TNG? In Q Who?, we are told by both Q and Guinan that the Borg are relentlessly driven to assimilate technology. Yet in Best of Both Worlds, they were targetting Picard... the characters even address this change in behavior. On top of that, it was in BOBW, not FC, that we first see an individual speaking for the Borg. Personally, I think FC helps to explain this apparent discrepency a little better.
        
        You also attack Braga for not recognizing the "overusing" of the Borg in Voyager, and yet ignore the passage in which Braga admits they were used "ad nauseum."
        
        So if you're going to make an argument, then make an argument based on the facts and not on a distortion of them or on convenient omissions.
        
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        RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:47:33 on Jun 20, 2004
        
        It's funny how you say that I've only been on this board two days, when I've been a member here for years... check my info again. I've been a regular visitor to Trekweb since it's easrly days on the internet. I don't remember how far back that goes precisely, but I should say at least back as far as the First Contact period. It's been a while, regardless. I've seen many of your posts, and your opinions are often based on nitpicking (ie: tiny little ridiculous problems with Enterprise which, perhaps 1% of the population would care about). I'm not the biggest fan of Enterprise in the world, indeed, there's far better sci-fi to be seen out there. What I won't do though is complain about tiny little things for the sake of complaning. That was the whole point of my post. I was using logic to demonstrate that when you are being nitpicky, you are being just the sort or person that "can't hold their ground in an argument". Consider as well, that calling someone a pedophile and/or homosexual for making a joke about a scene in a movie is very childish. This sort of thing is not an argument, and you certainly didn't defend your opinion with any kind of compelling evidence. It's this sort of mudslinging that makes people criticise you on this board. The vast majority of your post is well defended and I agree with it, but I was merely making the point that at times you can be very nitpicky. At the same time, you critique someone else for being this way.
        
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        RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:24:42 on Jun 20, 2004
        
        Since 2003 not 2004. opps my mistake.
        
        Quote:"I've seen many of your posts, and your opinions are often based on nitpicking (ie: tiny little ridiculous problems with Enterprise which, perhaps 1% of the population would care about). "
        
        Care to enlighten us with an example? I have noted the disregard for continuity and rehashed stories. Things that other people, not just myself have pointed out. I would find continuity errors not to be petty. But of course you could be one of these morons who doesn't care about continiuty and hold the idea that "if it is good, who cares about continuity". Well I think that is a pathetic excuse.
        
        Quote:"That was the whole point of my post. I was using logic to demonstrate that when you are being nitpicky, you are being just the sort or person that "can't hold their ground in an argument"
        
        You didn't prove anything. You provided no example to back up your point. You just went off on same tangent. I went through the posting and gave my opinon much like I am doing here. Maybe you should do the same.
        
        Quote:"Consider as well, that calling someone a pedophile and/or homosexual for making a joke about a scene in a movie is very childish.
        
        Ok the reason for your "sudden comment" is finally coming out. I didn't find that comment to be funny and I think it does tend to have a homosexual behaviour to it. That is what I wrote and if you don't agree that is your right but I personally don't care what you think.
        
        Quote:"This sort of thing is not an argument, and you certainly didn't defend your opinion with any kind of compelling evidence.
        
        I never said it was fact.
        
        Quote:"It's this sort of mudslinging that makes people criticise you on this board.
        
        Like who? Braga?
        
        Quote:"The vast majority of your post is well defended and I agree with it, but I was merely making the point that at times you can be very nitpicky.
        
        Now you give me a compliment? If I happen to nitpick oh well. I am sure I am not there only one who does it.
        
        Quote:"At the same time, you critique someone else for being this way.
        
        I didn't critique him for that. What I critiqued him for was ignoring everything I said and getting off topic by some grammer error. I didn't realize people were going to be "tested" on their responses. I guess I am not allowed to make a typical spelling or grammer error. In my opinion his response was nothing more than him trying to slam me because he didn't like what I wrote. As you can see I asked him to get back on topic and discuss what points I wrote. He has yet to do so because the coward can't hold his ground. He is like a few people on here who "come out no where, make some insult" but can't back it up.
        
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        RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:57:32 on Jun 20, 2004
        
        Quote:
        But of course you could be one of these morons who doesn't care about continiuty and hold the idea that "if it is good, who cares about continuity". Well I think that is a pathetic excuse.
        
        I prefer continuity, but in some cases, it's fine by me. For instance, the Ferengi thing is okay, since they didn't get much interaction with the "mauraders", in the case of the Borg, it made sense they they could have possibly crashed on Earth with the debris and become frozen for centuries. As well, the Borg contacting their homeworld is a fun addition to the end, adding some contunity with why they were coming for Earth in the first place. It doesn't make sense to me why it wouldn't be reported, but perhaps eventually we'll see the founding of Section 31, and the subsequent classification of "sensitive" information.
        
        Things I don't like include T'Pol's character and other major continuity errors, and Braga's attitude towards fans who nitpick the continuity thing.
        
        To me, it's not right to be too nitpicky, especially about tiny, nonessential information. If they get major dates wrong, it's okay, if they seriously create a contradiction between the series without an explanation, fine. However, for instance, complaning about Cochrane's "new" personality is silly, as a lot of people become alcholhics under stress. They didn't say anywhere in Star Trek history that I'm aware of that Cochrane was a great man or without problems. Even if they did, lots of times blind patriotism makes up for it. Look at George W. supports - they often turn a blind eye to his total (and obviously) lack of intelligence and his darker side. I'm quite sure the Federation would choose to forget that Cochrane was an ahcholhic since he was so important.
        
        If it's important that's fine, but I think some of these points would be considered to be petty complains when you consider that humans grow and evolve over time. Your personal opions are obviously yours to keep, but I don't think some of the judgements about the total idiodicy of B&B are true. Sure, they're a couple of idiots, but they've done things right, and besides, we can't judge them and personally insult them without knowing them in real life, especially if they've not personally insulted us. But, to each his own, and I do respect your right to your own opinions, unlike some. :P
        
        Quote:
        I didn't find that comment to be funny and I think it does tend to have a homosexual behaviour to it.
        
        I, and apparently (according to Steve) the audience found it funny, not hilarious, but funny. It's tongue-in-cheek and satirical, which is often the most intelectual form of humour. He's taking the comment about the "most sensual scene in Trek history" and saying a similar comment about easily one of the most innocent scenes in Star Trek history. It's not homosexual or pedophillic, it's just a man who has a quick enough wit to be able to come up with a funny parallel for another person's quote.
        
        Quote:
        Now you give me a compliment?
        
        Of coruse I would. I'm not the typical message boarder who takes this stuff personally. I enjoy a debate on here, and I enjoy making comments when I think I can make a point of my own, especially right now, when i have time and am on a break from school. I have nothing against you as a person... I may not agree with all of your points, but I won't judge you, having never met you. I don't think I said at all that I totally disaagreeed with what you said, nor did I say I agreed. There are points of both agreement and disagreement, and I have no bias for or against you for it, even if I don't usually see eye-to-eye with what I read of yours. ;)
        
        Quote:
        I didn't critique him for that. What I critiqued him for was ignoring everything I said and getting off topic by some grammer error.
        
        My point was that by complaning about people who nitpick, while you can be fairly nitpicky with some continuity errors yourself, you're yourself are being what you acude someone else of being. That is, someone who complains about mook points and doesn't back them up. Like I said, I don't think some of your nitpicks have merit. At the same time, I agree with you that his certainly didn't have any grounds. After the effort you put into your post, there's no need for someone to nitpick about grammar, especially when you're on an internet forum, and not, say, writing an essay for school or whatever. Basicially, I have issue with anyone who nitpicks for silly reasons and I was merely pointing out the irony in your statement to him about being nitpicky. Didn't mean any offense... just being satiric. :P
        
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        RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:48:38 on Jun 20, 2004
        
        Quote:"I prefer continuity, but in some cases, it's fine by me.
        
        Then that is where you and I differ. This show was suppose to be a prequel. It has hardly done that. The fact its a prequel makes continuity a must. They needed to sit down and see WHAT was established in TOS and TNG and went from there. Did they do that? Nope. Lets do some Xindi crap! Drag it out for a whole season then the quickly wrap it up to give us Nazis. Just ridiculous!
        
        Quote:"For instance, the Ferengi thing is okay, since they didn't get much interaction with the "mauraders", in the case of the Borg, it made sense they they could have possibly crashed on Earth with the debris and become frozen for centuries. As well, the Borg contacting their homeworld is a fun addition to the end, adding some contunity with why they were coming for Earth in the first place.
        
        It was established that the Ferengi were interacted with during the TNG. The Borg for Regenerations was just a ratings stunt which failed. It was very clear from FC that the sphere was completely destroyed. There is no way and I don't care how much of a "Borg" you are. Falling from space into the Arctic and being frozen for over 100 years. You would of been splattered all over the Arctic circle. I am sorry but you are dead. I would suggest seeing the TNG episode "I Borg" I believe it is the first appearance of the Borg.
        
        Quote:" It doesn't make sense to me why it wouldn't be reported, but perhaps eventually we'll see the founding of Section 31, and the subsequent classification of "sensitive" information."
        
        This is speculation on your part. Again with the section 31 crap. Is everything unexplained, half ass explained or just ignored going to have the excuse of "section 31" attached to it?
        
        Quote:"Things I don't like include T'Pol's character and other major continuity errors, and Braga's attitude towards fans who nitpick the continuity thing.
        
        I agree that T'Pols character is NOT a vulcan. Bragas attitude towards the fans who have supported his work is bizarre at best. He is mad at fans for following his work carefully? He is truely an idiot!
        
        Quote:"To me, it's not right to be too nitpicky, especially about tiny, nonessential information.
        
        Sometimes the smallest details are the most important. I will admit that so much has been written but it doesn't excuse Braga and Berman for disregarding their own material. They should be the ones sticking to their stuff not the fans. For them to get mad at the fans for sticking to "their" material is just insane.
        
        Quote:"If they get major dates wrong, it's okay, if they seriously create a contradiction between the series without an explanation, fine.
        
        I can admit that getting a date wrong is not the end of the world. However are there not people who check these things? Don't the writers get an outline of the characters bio information. For example it is established that Riker is from Alaska. You can't go around for 10 years saying this. Then one day say he is from Mexico City. It is a small detail but one that can be avoided.
        
        Quote:"However, for instance, complaning about Cochrane's "new" personality is silly, as a lot of people become alcholhics under stress. They didn't say anywhere in Star Trek history that I'm aware of that Cochrane was a great man or without problems. Even if they did, lots of times blind patriotism makes up for it. Look at George W. supports - they often turn a blind eye to his total (and obviously) lack of intelligence and his darker side. I'm quite sure the Federation would choose to forget that Cochrane was an ahcholhic since he was so important
        
        There was an entire episode of TOS done on Cochrane. Once they learn who he really is there is no mention of "bizarre" or "odd" behavior by him. He is a calm man. In FC they protrayed him as a drunk. It is very clear that Braga is NOT a fan of TOS and has NEVER watched one episode of it. He has someone give him an outline of it. For a guy who co wrote the script to this movie to say "I "THINK" they did something about him in TOS" goes to show you how lazy and incompetent he really is. He did no background prep about the character he was going to be writing about. A character that was already ESTABLISHED.
        
        Quote:"If it's important that's fine, but I think some of these points would be considered to be petty complains when you consider that humans grow and evolve over time. Your personal opions are obviously yours to keep, but I don't think some of the judgements about the total idiodicy of B&B are true. Sure, they're a couple of idiots, but they've done things right, and besides, we can't judge them and personally insult them without knowing them in real life, especially if they've not personally insulted us. But, to each his own, and I do respect your right to your own opinions, unlike some. :P
        
        By taking Trek and driving it into the ground, I would hardly call that doing "things right". Can you give us an example of something they did right? VOY was crap. The last 2 movies sucked. ENT will only see S4. For the last 10 years they have ruined Trek.
        
        I can judge them by their interviews on what they say about the fans and Trek as a whole. To sit there like a DUMMY and come up with every excuse to explain the failure of Nemesis shows how incompetent they are. To sit there and blame "Satan", the "fans", the lack of interest in the Romulans". Goes to show you that they are just grasping at straws. A sign of truly being out of touched with everything. Their overall conduct has been horrible and I think that people are correct to get good assessments of them... (lazy writers, arrogarnt, incompetent etc) All of these points can be backed up. They are not just "one time events". It has been on going for many years now.
        
        Quote:"I, and apparently (according to Steve) the audience found it funny, not hilarious, but funny. It's tongue-in-cheek and satirical, which is often the most intelectual form of humour. He's taking the comment about the "most sensual scene in Trek history" and saying a similar comment about easily one of the most innocent scenes in Star Trek history. It's not homosexual or pedophillic, it's just a man who has a quick enough wit to be able to come up with a funny parallel for another person's quote.
        
        Well that is fine that the audience found it funny. But I find it to be a tad bit bizarre to say. Others on here have said it as well. It fell under the category of "ohhhh ok...whatever....next". In todays age of "pedophiles/ child molesters" I think his little joke was in very bad taste. I do not find it to be a quick wit response.
        
        Quote:"Of coruse I would. I'm not the typical message boarder who takes this stuff personally. I enjoy a debate on here, and I enjoy making comments when I think I can make a point of my own, especially right now, when i have time and am on a break from school. I have nothing against you as a person... I may not agree with all of your points, but I won't judge you, having never met you. I don't think I said at all that I totally disaagreeed with what you said, nor did I say I agreed. There are points of both agreement and disagreement, and I have no bias for or against you for it, even if I don't usually see eye-to-eye with what I read of yours. ;)
        
        ok
        
        Quote:"My point was that by complaning about people who nitpick, while you can be fairly nitpicky with some continuity errors yourself, you're yourself are being what you acude someone else of being. That is, someone who complains about mook points and doesn't back them up. Like I said, I don't think some of your nitpicks have merit. At the same time, I agree with you that his certainly didn't have any grounds. After the effort you put into your post, there's no need for someone to nitpick about grammar, especially when you're on an internet forum, and not, say, writing an essay for school or whatever. Basicially, I have issue with anyone who nitpicks for silly reasons and I was merely pointing out the irony in your statement to him about being nitpicky. Didn't mean any offense... just being satiric. :P"
        
        ok
        
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        RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:20:37 on Jun 20, 2004
        
        Quote:
        Lets do some Xindi crap! Drag it out for a whole season then the quickly wrap it up to give us Nazis. Just ridiculous!
        
        I agree with you here. The Xindi storyline was a good one, but not appropriate for a prequel, and I completly agree about the Nazi garbage. :) After I saw the finale, I'm sorely tempted to not ever watch the premier because they screwed up - bad.
        
        Quote:
        It was established that the Ferengi were interacted with during the TNG... It was very clear from FC that the sphere was completely destroyed.
        
        I differ in these opinions, becuase I can have patience with Enterprise and wait for the series to finish and see if Second 31 is formed to keep some of these things secret. If they do, fine, if it's never explained in the series, I do agree that it's b.s. For the time being, I have to be noncommital and will hope that they do something about it (although it's unlikely) :) As for the Borg, I don't agree that the ship was clealy destoryed, there was a huge explosion, and many flames were coming from the ship in patterns which look like debris movement to me. The size of the chunk we saw on Earth was really not all ythat big (at least compared to the size of the spehere), so I think it's possible. There are sometimes when you just need to suspend logic and allow your imagination a chance to work for a bit. Like I said, if they don't explain the reason why no one in the future knows about these races, we have a proble, until then, I'll keep my hopes up, be it foolish or not ;)
        
        Quote:
        There was an entire episode of TOS done on Cochrane. Once they learn who he really is there is no mention of "bizarre" or "odd" behavior by him. He is a calm man. In FC they protrayed him as a drunk.
        
        There's no reason a calm man can't later become a drunk. The thing is is that there are many years, and a war between Cochrane's TOS debut and his FC return. These things can have heavy effects on a man. It's not inconcievable. This one, to me, is another, suspend logic, use imagination situation.
        
        Quote:
        By taking Trek and driving it into the ground, I would hardly call that doing "things right". Can you give us an example of something they did right? VOY was crap. The last 2 movies sucked. ENT will only see S4. For the last 10 years they have ruined Trek.
        
        Here are some examples, TNG and FC. Granted, the majority of the work, especially recently, has been garbage, but that's becuase they're tired. I'm the first person to admit that it's time for them to go, and would celebrate if they left Enterprise altogether, but at the same time, I won't ignore that they were responsible for some good television and one fantastic movie (second only to TWOK (and maybe on similar ground to TUC), in my opinion. I do not choose to judge people on their negative traits alone, were I to do that, I'd probably have terrible things to say about you. But like you, I believe that B&B are right on some ways, dead wrong in others. I hope they leave the series, hell, I'd love to see them publically fired, but there's not much I can do about it. :)
        
        Quote:
        To sit there like a DUMMY and come up with every excuse to explain the failure of Nemesis shows how incompetent they are. To sit there and blame "Satan", the "fans", the lack of interest in the Romulans". Goes to show you that they are just grasping at straws.
        
        I also agree with this. They've blamed everyone but themselves, and that's childish, but my former point still remains, that they've done some good, and that they've done a lot of bad... I just won't judge them based on the bad alone! :P
        
        Quote:
        In todays age of "pedophiles/ child molesters" I think his little joke was in very bad taste.
        
        The problem with society these days is that it's too PC. People in the British Isles have been cross dresseing as a form of humour for hundreds, perhaps thousands of years, but people did not take this for homosexuality or gender confusion. It's just innocent fun. What Braga said was also innocent fun. There are no more child molesters today than there ever have been, it's just that in recent years, child abuse has been being paid attention to by governments (at long last). My friends and I always joke around doing homoerotic stuff, yet we're all straight as can be. People today (in general) are just much too serious about their lives and are far to quick to assume that everyone's a "bad guy". This needs to change, really. Society needs to change, we're literally going back to the dark ages, only without the open sense of humour that they had. :P
        
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        RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: rumandchocolate (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:42:46 on Jun 21, 2004
        
        For the record... there is a distinct psychological difference between a pedophile and a homosexual. The urges and desires of one are not the same as the other. Pedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality, except perhaps that both are deemed a sexual deviency. In fact, most pedophiles (even those who have sex with boys) are heterosexual. Pedophilia has more to do with sexual dominance and control than sexual orientation.
        
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        RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:44:56 on Jun 21, 2004
        
        I realise that. I was merely using them in the same context as scorned was to keep it simple. He implied that Braga was both due to that quote, and I was pointing out that the quote does not proove that he is either. :)
        
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        RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: rumandchocolate (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:28:04 on Jun 21, 2004
        
        I didn't mean to single you or your post out... it's just that as more poeple post and reply, I see a general degradation of the distinctive line separating the two terms. Many people (perhaps even most) think the terms are synonymous, or at the very least don't understand the difference. I was just pointing it out general consumption. :)
        
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        RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:35:27 on Jun 21, 2004
        
        Oh, I fully agree. I didn't take it personally in any way. I really wish people could identify homosexuality as something not inheritely evil. The upcoming election is a sad state of a affairs, and is virtually one of liberals (in every traditional sense of the word) vs. conversatives (again, in every sense). One side promises more rights for minority groups, the other pretty much wishes to keep anyone that isn't an "averge" white male away from any rights. Oh, do I hope the liberals get in, I really don't need to get this country get set back 50 years, especially after we've been so progressive in recent years :(
        
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      - RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: Darth Brooks (Odo's file, contact) @ 05:36:33 on Jun 19, 2004
        
        I actually have no argument with anything you said. I took one look at your butchering of the English language and opted not to consider your opinions one way or the other.
        
        I just thought you might benefit from learning a little something which could improve your debating skills, thereby encouraging educated people like me to consider your lengthy posts intelligible enough to warrant attention. ;-)
        
        -DB
        
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        RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:21:41 on Jun 19, 2004 | (1)
        
        Quote:"I actually have no argument with anything you said. I took one look at your butchering of the English language and opted not to consider your opinions one way or the other"
        
        I would hardly consider my previous response to be butching of the English language....So take it easy Fraiser!
        
        Quote:"I just thought you might benefit from learning a little something which could improve your debating skills, thereby encouraging educated people like me to consider your lengthy posts intelligible enough to warrant attention. ;-)"
        
        Nit picking some written error hardly proves yourself to be this pseudo intellect that you claim to be. It just makes you look like some sort of "snob".
        
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        RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: Darth Brooks (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:41:32 on Jun 19, 2004
        
        Quote:
        I would hardly consider my previous response to be butching of the English language....So take it easy Fraiser!
        
        It's "butchering", not "butching". And "Frasier", not "Fraiser".
        
        But I guess you can't teach someone who's stupid and stubborn.
        
        You win!
        
        -DB
        
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        RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
        By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 04:34:34 on Jun 20, 2004
        
        Well Frasier, I never really watched the show..oh well shoot me. Regardless you can't really debate with someone who can't hold their ground. Someone who just ramblings on and on about how great they think they are. I guess you must be related to Ensign Ro? Having to resort to petty and childish spelling mistakes doesn't negate the point I made. Lucky for you, you just happend to forget that part and just harp on some grammer issue. Good try though...Frasier! I would suggest you get your head out of the dictionary and enroll in a debating class.
        
        Quote:"You win!"
        
        We already know that.
        
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WOW | Report this post to moderator
By: Norm3 (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:16:16 on Jun 17, 2004

I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAY!

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RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 12:55:44 on Jun 16, 2004

"I find this entire interview to be nothing more than "fluff". It has all the "nice" questions and answers". Instead of doing the "typical nice easy" questions. How about having Braga under the microscope? Put him through the ringer and give him the real tough questions. Point out the mistakes and overall decline of Trek due to his poor writing. But no, we get a nice little "Oprah" piece."

I wasn't an interview, Scorned. It was a Q&A session with fans at a special screening of "Star Trek: First Contact".

--------

The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
only hollow rhythms resounded from within.

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- RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
  By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:05:18 on Jun 16, 2004
  
  Let me rephrase.
  
  I find this entire Q&A to be nothing more than "fluff". It has all the "nice" questions and answers". Instead of doing the "typical nice easy" questions. How about having Braga under the microscope? Put him through the ringer and give him the real tough questions. Point out the mistakes and overall decline of Trek due to his poor writing. But no, we get a nice little "Oprah" piece."
  
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  - RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
    By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 13:33:47 on Jun 16, 2004
    
    They were there to ask Brannon questions about Star Trek: First Contact. They asked them, he answered them. What would you have prefered they ask exactly?
    
    --------
    
    The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
    my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
    breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
    only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
    
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    - RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
      By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:59:35 on Jun 16, 2004 | (1)
      
      The night was about FC. They asked him questions about it. You could of thrown in other questions about Trek to make it a more rounded Q&A. Instead of doing the "easy" questions. Celbs who do Leno and Letterman while pitching new movies don't always talk about only the movie. With regards to FC I would like to know why they think "ditching the Borg as "one" and giving us the "queen bee" was such a great idea. How that doesn't contradict what the original premise of the borg was. Why they changed the borg design again? Going from a paste white to that green sweaty look. How and why they think that Z.C was a drunk when in fact he was not protrayed that way in TOS. And for the real real real die hards: How the ENT-E in FC was established to be so many decks only to gain a few more decks in Nemesis. Did the ship grow? Did it hit puberty?
      
      Of course the ultimate question would of been "When are you leaving Star Trek?"
      
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      - RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:53:58 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        They never "changed" Zephram Cochrane. He was what he was in "Metamorphesis," and in First Contact it is revealed that he had not always been that way. Just as the rest of humanity, Cochrane was actually a cynical alchoholic without any hope or vision, but he learns to adopt the philosophy of Star Trek, just as the rest of humanity supposedly will.
        
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      - RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:10:43 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        The only legitimate question here is about the Borg Queen, and Braga clearly stated that Paramount brass wanted a villain. Beyond that he said that he thought the Queen opened up an interesting subplot with Data. But no, they didn't specifically ask him "why did you ruin the Borg?" because, that's an entirely subjective opinion. It's like asking "why didn't you write the movie the way I would have written it, you bastard?"
        
        --------
        
        It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
        
        Halen. "The Dream is Over."
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:32:05 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        Your wasting your breath Steve.
        
        I'm not sure if "partisan" is the appropriate term here, but that's the gist of what all this ranting is about. Brannon Braga couldn't sneeze without folks like Scorned and Jadzia Dax finding something wrong about it.
        
        --------
        
        The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
        my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
        breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
        only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
        
        Reply
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:09:29 on Jun 17, 2004
        
        Oh yes, the typical arrogrance response by the way who doesn't even watch Trek anymore. Care to explain to us why or even how you call yourself a fan of Trek? I have read many responses by you ripping on Voy, Ent and the films. But again, only "we" are the bad people. How one ges a delusion of grandeur like yourself is truely amazing.
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:53:21 on Jun 17, 2004
        
        I'm not arrogant. I dont have dellusions of grandeur. Just because you keep saying those things dont make them true.
        
        I critcize Rick and Brannon's work...you personally attack them. It's two different things; there is nothing hypocritical about it.
        
        --------
        
        The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
        my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
        breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
        only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
        
        Reply
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:13:25 on Jun 18, 2004 | (1)
        
        My pointing them out is a strong observation of the truth. A truth that other people on here seem to share. So if quacks like a duck, swims like a duck and sounds like a duck...it's a duck.
        
        My so called personal attacks are only attacks because you don't wish to accept them as true. B&B are both lazy, greedy, ego tripping jerks. Oh wait..I can see how you relate to them now.
        
        I don't even know why you bother coming on here. You are not even a fan of Star Trek.
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 12:53:22 on Jun 21, 2004
        
        "Oh wait..I can see how you relate to them now."
        
        I am not lazy, greedy or egotistical. Again, just because you say those things doesn't make them true.
        
        "You are not even a fan of Star Trek."
        
        Yes I am. One more time, just because you say something doesn't make it true.
        
        --------
        
        The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
        my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
        breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
        only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
        
        Reply
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Brikar (Odo's file, contact) @ 03:27:49 on Jun 18, 2004
        
        Do you even know what "personal attack" means?
        
        --------
        
        "Serenity" is the movie "Star Wars" prequels wish they could be.
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:15:48 on Jun 18, 2004
        
        Yes I do. Do you know what "sparkle in a bottle of wine" means yet without having a hissy fit?
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:48:22 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        Wow. We bother you that much that we merit mention in your post. This from someone who openly admits to not watching ENT at all. How predictably hypocritcal of you. ;-)
        
        --------
        
        "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
        ----
        "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 17:20:00 on Jun 17, 2004
        
        "We bother you that much that we merit mention in your post."
        
        Your anti-Berman/anti-Braga feelings make the two of you the perfect examples for what I was trying to say. What's wrong with that? Aren't you proud of your hatred for them?
        
        "This from someone who openly admits to not watching ENT at all."
        
        This thread has to do with "Star Trek: First Contact", not ENT.
        
        "How predictably hypocritcal of you."
        
        Since you forgot that this thread is not related to ENT, that comment has become moot. And 'predictably'? I am not hypocritical in the first place. I know you like to accuse people you dont agree with of being hypocritical (as does Scorned)...but just because you say it doesn't make it true.
        
        PS--You do understand in what context a smiley face is suited for, correct? Attacking somebody is usually not the right place for a ";-)". If you're just trying to patronize me, then fine, but if you are actually smiling everytime you attack somebody...well, that's just weird.
        
        --------
        
        The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
        my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
        breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
        only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
        
        Reply
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:11:41 on Jun 17, 2004
        
        Quote:
        
        Your anti-Berman/anti-Braga feelings make the two of you the perfect examples for what I was trying to say. What's wrong with that? Aren't you proud of your hatred for them?
        
        You need to ask what's wrong with yourself.
        
        Since you obviously haven't read my critiques of Braga's work (and Berman doesn't have nearly the amount of writing credits as Braga), whether it was from GEN or FC or VOY or ENT, and then you come in here talking out of your ass, it only indicates that you do so to merely get attention like a 3 year old, with little or nothing to contribute.
        
        Give it up Ro. I've been around a long time. Like Flynn, you're just another punk kid.
        
        Quote:
        
        This thread has to do with "Star Trek: First Contact", not ENT.
        
        And since Brannon Braga, co-writer of FC, was ALSO a co-creator of ENT and this session was hosted by Brannon Braga, then the subject of Brannon Braga IS valid. Or are you that dense to see that?
        
        Yes apparently because - repeat after me - You know all and nothing came before you.
        
        Quote:
        
        Since you forgot that this thread is not related to ENT, that comment has become moot.
        
        Sorry try again.
        
        Since this article contains comments from Braga, and Braga was a co-creator of ENT, a writer in TNG & VOY, as well as co-writer of GEN & FC, then your comment is moot.
        
        Quote:
        
        And 'predictably'? I am not hypocritical in the first place.
        
        Think again. No, I don't think you can.
        
        Quote:
        
        I know you like to accuse people you dont agree with of being hypocritical (as does Scorned)...but just because you say it doesn't make it true.
        
        One only needs to read the drivel that you have written here to come to the conclusion that I did.
        
        Quote:
        
        PS--You do understand in what context a smiley face is suited for, correct?
        
        PS-You do understand that you are a virtual newbie on the internet, correct? What? A few years? Have you reached 5 yet? Certainly not back into the '80s.
        
        Get a clue.
        
        Quote:
        
        Attacking somebody is usually not the right place for a ";-)". If you're just trying to patronize me, then fine, but if you are actually smiling everytime you attack somebody...well, that's just weird.
        
        Like I said, you haven't a clue. One day you'll figure it out. Maybe in about 10 years.
        
        --------
        
        "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
        ----
        "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 13:54:35 on Jun 21, 2004
        
        That was all nonsense--every bit. Could you possibly be any more despereate to appear 'right'?
        
        Just how insecure are you, Dax? It the 'I'm older, so I'm better' line all you've got? Isn't there anything else that makes you feel good about yourself?
        
        What a sad old lady you are.
        
        --------
        
        The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
        my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
        breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
        only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
        
        Reply
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:37:18 on Jun 23, 2004
        
        Ro - you're still a punk kid desperate for attention. One day you'll grow out of it.
        
        --------
        
        "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
        ----
        "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:21:31 on Jun 17, 2004
        
        I'm honestly not trying to be insulting or anything, and I'm not taking sides in this little skirmish of yours, but I really have been wondering why you use a ";-)" when attacking someone.
        
        And I freely admit that I am a relative newbie to internet message boards. :-)
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:12:25 on Jun 17, 2004
        
        Because without it, it indicates a very blunt and direct remark, but without the desire or need for discourse that might call for an "all caps" or "bold" (caps = "shouting", bold = "emphasis") type of text. With it, it shows a calmer, more conversational tone to the comment.
        
        And there are times when I am being blunt. Like right now. And when you see me not use it, then I suggest you stay away from me because I am being very deadly serious like I am right now. And trust me, I don't need to use a vulgar expletive to get my point across like is so prevalent around here.
        
        Get it? Got it. Good.
        
        --------
        
        "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
        ----
        "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:24:15 on Jun 18, 2004
        
        Well fuck you too then.
        
        :-)
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 05:54:27 on Jun 18, 2004
        
        You are a piece of work.
        
        --------
        
        "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
        ----
        "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
        
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RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:11:39 on Jun 16, 2004

Quote:
Ridiculous! What a stupid thing to say unless you are a pedophile. I think Braga is a closet homosexual.

It's called a joke, ever heard of one? Considering the whole audience laughed I guess they're all sickos, huh. Lighten up.

--------

It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!

Halen. "The Dream is Over."

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- RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
  By: Slaphappy (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:20:40 on Jun 17, 2004
  
  Quote:
  Michael went so far as to suggest that Krige’s turn as the Queen makes FIRST CONTACT the “kinkiest” of all the STAR TREK movies. Braga quickly retorted, “Well yes, but I thought in INSURRECTION when Data and the boy come out of the haystack, that was pretty sexy!”
  
  I dunno seems a little twisted, laughing or not.
  
  --------
  
  "A Keyboard?! How Quaint..."
  
  --Scotty
  
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- RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
  By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:19:37 on Jun 16, 2004
  
  Was the audienced filled with "Catholic priests"???
  
  Ohhhh its only a joke!
  
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  - RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
    By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:25:24 on Jun 16, 2004
    
    There you go, now THAT was funny. Though since I was in the audience, I take personal offense. lol
    
    --------
    
    It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
    
    Halen. "The Dream is Over."
    
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    - RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
      By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:37:20 on Jun 16, 2004
      
      You were in the audience and didn't talk to him? You should of told him to come on this site and read some "real" opinions and not those "sappy ones" on his site.
      
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      - RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:53:14 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        I spoke to him but I certainly don't need to tell him to read TrekWeb. He made reference in the Q&A to Internet feedback so he's probably reading all the bile you're spewing.
        
        --------
        
        It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
        
        Halen. "The Dream is Over."
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:09:00 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        Quote:" I spoke to him but I certainly don't need to tell him to read TrekWeb"
        
        Are you kidding? This is your site!
        
        Quote:"He made reference in the Q&A to Internet feedback so he's probably reading all the bile you're spewing"
        
        You know I am not the only one who is fed up with these two. You may call it bile all you want but it doesn't negate any of the points I or what other people make.
        
        What did he say about the "internet feedback" that he gets/gots? More stuff like those "pesky fans who have paid attention all these years complaining that Worf was really a big male Klingon whom we have now made into a little "Asian flower child". I mean come on how come these fans are never happy?
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Anderson (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:50:20 on Jun 18, 2004
        
        Quote:
        You may call it bile all you want but it doesn't negate any of the points I or what other people make.
        
        Bile is a nice word for it. Childish shit-spewing is all you do.
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:46:15 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        Quote:
        Are you kidding? This is your site!
        
        I don't need to tell him because he is well aware.
        
        You can make your points without viciously attacking him personally.
        
        --------
        
        It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
        
        Halen. "The Dream is Over."
        
        Reply
        Quote
        
        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: katefan (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:20:36 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        Yeah, but it's hard for him and many other people-me included!-to remain unemotional when discussing the jackass known as Brannon Braga. I'm not one to use the word "hate" all that often, but in all honesty I hate the fucker. I hope his career tanks and we never hear of him or from him again. All the good he did for the 'Trek franchise was flushed with his incompetence on Voyager thru Enterprise.
        
        --------
        
        "Oh, I'll wake up
        To any sound of engines,
        Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
        
        Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: MaxPower (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:08:10 on Jun 17, 2004
        
        Quote:
        but in all honesty I hate the fucker
        
        Oh trekkies, God bless them all.
        
        --------
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:05:42 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        "I hate the fucker."
        
        I'm sorry, but I think that's just rediculous. Hate Osama Bin Lauden or Charlie Manson...not a harmless B-grade Holloywood producer.
        
        --------
        
        The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
        my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
        breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
        only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: katefan (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:13:17 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        The man pissed all over a franchise I hold near to my heart. He's helped to turn 'Trek into a piece of worthless prime time trash that could have been something special had he kept his ego and pride in check. I can hate him if I damn well want to and I do.
        
        Call it ridiculous if you want, I don't care. It's how I feel.
        
        --------
        
        "Oh, I'll wake up
        To any sound of engines,
        Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
        
        Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:35:45 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        I agree.
        
        Ro, I thought that as a musician (or a singer or whatever it is you are), or all people, you would understand that art is at least as important to human existance as politics is. :-)
        
        Oh, and if you get katefan angry he may send a whole army of nude women armed with bows after you, so watch out.
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 13:03:16 on Jun 17, 2004
        
        There are more important things in life to get upset about.
        
        --------
        
        The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
        my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
        breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
        only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:46:59 on Jun 17, 2004
        
        And I bet you also believe in Dr. Daystrom.
        
        *Sigh*
        
        :-)
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:39:00 on Jun 17, 2004
        
        huh?
        
        --------
        
        The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
        my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
        breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
        only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
        
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        RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
        By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:02:05 on Jun 17, 2004
        
        I'm just being kinda silly, if you haven't noticed. :-)
        
        Never mind, LOL.
        
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Refreshing | Report this post to moderator
By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 11:39:29 on Jun 16, 2004 | (1)

I like how Brannon doesn't take himself or his work so damn seriously. Refreshing, coming from a film-maker, most of whom act as if their film(s) 'changed the world'.

--------

The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
only hollow rhythms resounded from within.

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RE: Refreshing | Report this post to moderator
By: neo2004 (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:39:51 on Jun 16, 2004

Quote:
I like how Brannon doesn't take himself or his work so damn seriously
I don't know. Given the quality of the work he's been putting out lately perhaps it wouldn't be such a bad idea for him to take his work more seriously...

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OK, this interview wasn't so bad... | Report this post to moderator
By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:01:04 on Jun 16, 2004

Quote: (from the artical)
Just about all the funny lines get a collective laugh and it’s amazing just how many memorable scenes the film contains. From Counselor Troi’s drunken haze to Cochran’s antiheroic ramblings, Dixon Hill, and the EMH and Barclary’s cameos, FIRST CONTACT has an engaging story and plenty of meat to keep the eyes and mind happy.

So, Steve, are you at last beginning to like First Contact?

Quote:
And then the third element to the film to come along was the idea of the great Zephram Cochran, who I think was depicted in TOS.

Um, you think? It's kind of interesting that I probably know more about Star Trek than Brannon Braga does.

Quote:
“Just to set it in a post-apocalyptic future was sort of more relatable to a general audience and the people who weren’t familiar with STAR TREK could appreciate what STAR TREK was all about,” Braga explained. “We created this character of Lily, played by Alfre Woodard, who knew nothing about STAR TREK because she knows nothing of the future. So this was a character to sort of introduce to the audience what STAR TREK was all about, and the philosophy of STAR TREK and what it means.”

Wow...he said something smart...I'm stunned...

Quote:
"Will it take a rest? Frankly I think it probably should at some point. I just don’t know,” he offered as an assessment of the overall health of the franchise."

It would be nice if one of the Executive Producers of Enterprise actually knew where Star Trek was headed, but whatever...

Quote:
“We always talk about it. Q kind of got de-fanged over the years. He was so great at the end of the finale of TNG and then he came back on DS9 and VOY and he was fairly soft. So if we bring Q back we want to bring him back with an edge to him.”

Didn't Braga have a heavy influence on Voyager, especially by the time they started doing Q episodes? Correct me if I'm wrong though.

So for the most part, Braga didn't make a fool out of himself! I'm impressed.

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RE: OK, this interview wasn't so bad... | Report this post to moderator
By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:50:20 on Jun 16, 2004

Quote:
Didn't Braga have a heavy influence on Voyager, especially by the time they started doing Q episodes?

Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Not really. Michael Piller, who created VOY with Berman and Jeri Taylor, did the first Q ep "Deathwish" in the second season. Kenneth Biller pretty much was involved in writing the story and/or teleplay for the others - VOY "The Q and the Grey", VOY "Q2". Braga took over as a show-runner during the 5th - 7th seasons after Piller's and Taylor's departure, which would have occureed after VOY "The Q and the Grey". Ie., only VOY "Q2" was done under his watch.

Quote:
So for the most part, Braga didn't make a fool out of himself! I'm impressed.

On the contrary, he did IMHO.

--------

"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
----
"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701

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- RE: OK, this interview wasn't so bad... | Report this post to moderator
  By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:13:37 on Jun 16, 2004
  
  Quote:
  So for the most part, Braga didn't make a fool out of himself! I'm impressed.
  
  Quote:
  On the contrary, he did IMHO.
  
  People are picking him apart not for what he said, but for the fact that in practice he is a horrible Star Trek writer. It is perfectly fine to do this, but speaking strictly about the interview, I'd say Braga handled it farily well. He made no mention of "continuity pornography" or "Gene would have been pleased" or "we're all very pleased with Enterprise" etc. I hate Braga just as much as anyone else, but I see little sense in twisting everything he says into a way to criticize him. That said, one of the highlights of coming to this site is reading Scorned do just that. :-) And I do agree with him that I want to see Braga answer some real questions, although this time wasn't so bad because I've never seen Braga's thoughts on First Contact before.
  
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  - RE: OK, this interview wasn't so bad... | Report this post to moderator
    By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:19:47 on Jun 16, 2004 | (1)
    
    Quote:
    
    People are picking him apart not for what he said, but for the fact that in practice he is a horrible Star Trek writer.
    
    Well... let's just separate the man from his works for a moment.
    
    There is a certain type and style of writing that he does. It is very "concept" oriented. But what it lacks is people-orientation. And this is something that his au pair and former "buddy" added when they were writing together. But when Moore left, we were left with "concepts" and cardboard people for the most part.
    
    But within some of his more recent stuff, and this relates back to the latter part of VOY and carries over into ENT - there is this thing he has with the portrayal of women that goes beyond stereotype and into the sinister realm of hatred cum ownership, from an almost Svengali point of view.
    
    Ie., he is like a modern day John Derek, where Jeri Ryan had become his "Bo" and it wouldn't have surprised me to see Jolene Blalock fulfill that role as well.
    
    I mean, John Derek was one who has been quoted as saying:
    
    "Live fast, die young, and leave a good looking corpse."
    
    I don't know how many posters around here remember the Bo Derek/John Derek soap opera in the media back in the '70s & '80s, but it was certainly a sad commentary on the dark side of Hollywood.
    
    And this is from my perspective as a woman, having seen hundreds and hundreds of hours of Trek women shown from every point along the stereotypical spectrum. However with him, there is an overlay there that is ugly.
    
    It first appeared with Troi in TNG (ie., TNG "Parallels" and later TNG "Genesis", taking this character and forcing her to have an affair with Worf, literally out of nowhere), then through to 7 of 9, and further through to what was done with the brief 1-episode return of Kes in VOY (VOY "Fury"), and continued on into ENT with T'Pol.
    
    And when one calls him on it and calls fans' attention to it, even here on this very BBS, it is tossed aside as a "joke" or "humor".
    
    And of course tossing this aside, time after time after time, only goes to reinforce the acceptance of it and allows it to continue unabated until it is finally taken to the extreme. Ie., the 1-night stand-having, Trellim-D addicted pseudo-Vulcan - essentially the sad being known today as the "Crack Whore".
    
    Now if Star Trek had a story done as a documentary on what it is that drives a woman to become addicted to a narcotic substance and then essentially "experiment" and/or sell her body to fulfill her addict craving, then fine.
    
    But when this whole line of development is done for titillation purposes, in an exploitive sense - especially since the species archetype belies the possibility of such occurring, then I AM going to call someone on it and complain.
    
    Quote:
    
    It is perfectly fine to do this, but speaking strictly about the interview, I'd say Braga handled it farily well.
    
    I think I have said this before in posts (more last fall I think) and I will say this again -
    
    From the perspective of being a professional, and moreso, someone from a position of power, he lacks the ability to come across as a professional in formal settings such as this.
    
    As much as many of us crack on Berman and his "we are all pleased" bit, Berman has learned the art of being a show-runner in a position of power. It is the style of the true bureaucrat that he is. And Braga needs to learn how to do this as well.
    
    Quote:
    
    He made no mention of "continuity pornography" or "Gene would have been pleased" or "we're all very pleased with Enterprise" etc.
    
    But as someone "in charge", the whole "we are pleased" is the expected response - IN the "formal" setting, when one is speaking from the perspective of one's employer.
    
    Yet his whole deamenor in off the cuff remarks such as:
    
    "One of my favorite moments in the film is that little patch of skin that she blows on--the blow job scene [laughter]--and the little goosebumps that came up, I thought that was really cool."
    
    I mean - if you're in the room with a bunch of your friends, fine. But in a commentary within this more formal setting, I'm sorry but it's just tacky.
    
    It cheapens him, it cheapens the film, and it cheapens the franchise.
    
    Quote:
    
    I hate Braga just as much as anyone else, but I see little sense in twisting everything he says into a way to criticize him.
    
    It's not just this interview and comments from him - it's MANY similar instances, where he has conducted himself in such a manner where I have lost all respect for him. He lacks sophistication.
    
    Quote:
    
    That said, one of the highlights of coming to this site is reading Scorned do just that. :-)
    
    Well now Scorned went farther than I could even attempt to stomach. There was no way I could even begin to do it justice, I was that disgusted. ;-)
    
    Quote:
    
    And I do agree with him that I want to see Braga answer some real questions, although this time wasn't so bad because I've never seen Braga's thoughts on First Contact before.
    
    Then you need to go peruse his website ;-)
    
    --------
    
    "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
    ----
    "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
    
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RE: OK, this interview wasn't so bad... | Report this post to moderator
By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:41:49 on Jun 16, 2004

Quote:
So, Steve, are you at last beginning to like First Contact?

I never disliked it. I just have some problems with it. However, having seen it again on the big screen, and with an audience, I am forced to conclude that FC is better than I remembered it.

--------

It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!

Halen. "The Dream is Over."

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huh? | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorpius (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:21:32 on Jun 16, 2004

Quote:
Braga quickly retorted, “Well yes, but I thought in INSURRECTION when Data and the boy come out of the haystack, that was pretty sexy!”

Funny, but VERY worrying!

--------

"Men don't use sex to get what they want. Sex IS what they want" - Frasier

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RE: huh? | Report this post to moderator
By: Archangel (Odo's file, contact) @ 03:24:56 on Jun 17, 2004 | (1)

Quote:
“Well yes, but I thought in INSURRECTION when Data and the boy come out of the haystack, that was pretty sexy!”

LOL, the first thing I thought when I read that was, I imagined a crowd in outrage, and somebody standing up and saying "He's a monster! He must be stopped!"

Too bad almost no one here anymore would get the "sensual" joke, though.

--------

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."

-James Madison

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RE: huh? | Report this post to moderator
By: MikeNinNH (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:48:26 on Jun 16, 2004 | (1)

Ah yes, NAMBLA-type activity is often great fodder for jokes. The sick f**k. Maybe his next project is a redo of "Prince Of Tides" as a comedy.

--------

-----
"Who are you, and how did you get in here??"
"I'm a locksmith, and... I'm a locksmith".
- "Police Squad"

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- RE: huh? | Report this post to moderator
  By: Scorpius (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:16:47 on Jun 16, 2004
  
  Clarifcation: What is NAMBLA?
  
  Thanks.
  
  --------
  
  "Men don't use sex to get what they want. Sex IS what they want" - Frasier
  
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- RE: huh? | Report this post to moderator
  By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:14:50 on Jun 16, 2004
  
  Sigh. It was purely in jest and the audience had a good laugh.
  
  --------
  
  It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
  
  Halen. "The Dream is Over."
  
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LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 06:41:01 on Jun 16, 2004

I don't even know where to begin.

From above:

“ We were really fortunate that this idea came along to set it in the near future because what’s at stake in the movie really is STAR TREK. If the Vulcans don’t land, the universe the audience has come to know and love will not exist."

And from that point forward, everything that they have done has been geared towards eliminating ALL that Star Trek has stood for, as a coda to GEN that got the ball rolling in that destructive direction.

"And then the third element to the film to come along was the idea of the great Zephram Cochran, who I think was depicted in TOS."

Who you "think was depicted"???

What is amazing is that this lazy ass won't even take 51 minutes of his time to WATCH TOS "Metamorphosis". It boggles the mind.

"We thought it would be interesting to have this crew meet Zephram Cochran, but he is not anything like anybody thinks--he’s a drunk. Kind of the antithesis of Gene Roddenberry’s ideals,"

Note what he says - "Kind of the antithesis of Gene Roddenberry's ideals".

Here is Zefram Cochran from TOS "Metamorphosis":

"and show how he got to be by the end of the film thanks in part to these heroes.”

This is total bullshit.

In TOS "Metamorphosis", written by Gene Coon, when you have dialog like this:

Kirk: "I've got a ship up there, responsibility for four lives here... One of them dying because of me."

McCoy: "It isn't your fault."

Kirk: "I'm in command, Bones.It makes it my fault. How do you fight a thing like that?"

McCoy: "Maybe you're a soldier so often that you forget you're also trained to be a diplomat. Why not try a carrot instead of a stick?"

The above summarizes a powerful connection that the audience can make with the dilemma that Kirk is in because he beweeps his outcast state to his friend. This is something that is LACKING from the Braga Universee and the Braga Characters, who are mere puppets strutting and fretting their hour on the stage.

I mean, THAT TOS episode fully defines HOW the Universal Translator works. But more than that, it is a story about love and sacrifice.

All I can say is, based on what I just read above, it's time for him to go. He doesn't give a shit. He just doesn't get it and he never will.

--------

"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
----
"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701

Quote

RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:13:23 on Jun 16, 2004

This is really one of the most extremist responses I've ever read. Where does the anger come from? The fact that so many fans adore FC means you must surely be in the minority with such a hateful opinion. Criticism is one thing but this is just pretty, well, crazy.

--------

It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!

Halen. "The Dream is Over."

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- RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
  By: NicoleJaneway (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:48:15 on Jun 23, 2004
  
  Quote:
  This is really one of the most extremist responses I've ever read. Where does the anger come from? The fact that so many fans adore FC means you must surely be in the minority with such a hateful opinion. Criticism is one thing but this is just pretty, well, crazy.
  
  Her response isn't extreme at all. It's moderate considering the absolute RUBBISH that Braga is spewing in that "interview". I don't know how many viewers "adore" FC - I've never taken a poll, BUT I think Jadzia-Dax's anger is coming not so much from FC but from the NONSENSE that Braga admits to in this interview.
  
  To learn that the writer wasn't even sure whether Zephram Cochrane appeared in TOS or not is pretty shocking. It pisses me off too to realize that his understanding of what Trek is about is so slim, and that he obviously doesn't give a damn. His uninformed comments are aggravating as hell, and people who care about Trek *should* be pissed off at his uninformed arrogance.
  
  I also agree that B&B's obsession with destroying the established Trek universe (as evidenced yet again in their TCW arc in Enterprise) is shameful. Rather than honouring the traditions of Trek, they want to trash everything that went before. Lazy, ignorant, arrogant megalomaniac FREAKS is what they are.
  
  Okay...I need a cup of coffee.
  
  Nicole
  
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- RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
  By: JediFonger (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:37:28 on Jun 16, 2004
  
  steve, he's not one of a 'few angry fans' he's one of MANY. in fact the many don't even read trekweb nor care to anymore. there's too many fans i know that have stopped with tos+tng and some ds9. they just can't take anymore trek plain and simple. there's too many inconsistencies to care about. it's similar to the disgruntle feelings of star wars franchise and its fans. many of them just simply don't care anymore and have moved on.
  
  many of the sw/st fans have moved to other SF series such as X-Files, Farscape, SG1 or LOTR the films, harry potter, etc. there's too many franchises and it's pretty much spread thin. it isn't like what it used to be, just bond, star wars, and star trek. there is too many 'franchises' to keep track of today. so if you slack off even a bit fans will leave you. in xf people left after s5, same with sg1, people leave after a certain amount of season, or babylon5, etc. i don't think there's any big franchises now with a lot of fans. it's pretty much spread pretty thin across the board.
  
  with regards to fc, it is exactly as the reply below said and even more so cause time travel is simply a writer's lazy crutch. sometimes it can be an effective crutch but most times it fails.
  
  --------
  
  LET THEM DIE!!!
  
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  - RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
    By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:05:39 on Jun 16, 2004
    
    Quote:
    he's not one of a 'few angry fans' he's one of MANY
    
    Buh buh buh... I'm a "She". ;-) Which makes it even more poignant because we ladies are often the ones who have done so much behind supporting this franchise, even with this most current trend to target a young male audience as the primary viewer.
    
    But I agree with what you said 100% and even me, of all people, taper of all things, who swore she would never go out and buy TV shows on DVD (for SHAME when one can tape the show for the cost of a blank tape...;-)), has bought and started to watch the 1st season of "Quantum Leap". And that's not only because when QL was originally airing, I was loyal to TNG and TNG alone (and never watched QL), but also because what I have discovered, was that QL HAD what TOS had and what TNG had and what even DS9 had (and even VOY to an extent) - ie., something that ENT has been sorely missing - CHARACTERS THAT CAN BE RELATED TO.
    
    And it is so painful to switch back and forth between the two - or even when I go back and watch TOS, to see the comparison between that and ENT.
    
    --------
    
    "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
    ----
    "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
    
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    - RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
      By: Meglo (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:26:54 on Jun 16, 2004
      
      Quote:
      something that ENT has been sorely missing - CHARACTERS THAT CAN BE RELATED TO.
      
      It's even a bigger testament to QL when you consider Sam and Al are two very unusual people. Sam is a super genius with half a dozen degrees who not only travels in time, but enters into other people's lives to change what previously happened. Al is a former pilot, POW, and astronaut with a half a dozen ex-wives who communicates with a super computer to help Sam change the past. By comparison, the characters on ENT are normal people!
      
      --------
      
      The supervisor is Verizon!
      
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      - RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
        By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:53:11 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        Quote:
        Quote:something that ENT has been sorely missing - CHARACTERS THAT CAN BE RELATED TO.
        
        It's even a bigger testament to QL when you consider Sam and Al are two very unusual people. Sam is a super genius with half a dozen degrees who not only travels in time, but enters into other people's lives to change what previously happened. Al is a former pilot, POW, and astronaut with a half a dozen ex-wives who communicates with a super computer to help Sam change the past. By comparison, the characters on ENT are normal people!
        
        LOL
        
        But see - this show was supposed to be "the near future" so they were a bit... ummm... eccentric? LOL Actually those 2 (well maybe other than Donna) were probably the most normal of that group. ;-)
        
        --------
        
        "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
        ----
        "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
        
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      - RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
        By: katefan (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:49:05 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        Yet I found Al and Sam to be likable and approachable, while I find Archer and co. to really be the opposite. Well, okay, I like Hoshi and Porthos. Outside of that I could give a damn about the rest.
        
        But when Sam is bemoaning the fact that he cannot save his brother in that awesome two-parter, then discovers that to save his brother he missed an opportunity to rescue Al, that was powerful drama. Or what about when Sam is in Lee Harvey Oswald's body and they addressed the Kennedy assasination and the so-called conspiracy, that was powerful storytelling.
        
        To paraphrase Al:
        
        "Maybe we like to think it is a conspiracy because that somehow makes the craziness of the world make sense."
        
        Exactly. We want there to be a conspiracy, we don't want to believe a single man could cause such catastrophic events to happen.
        
        Sorry, I digressed again. I feel Bakula had more to work with on QL, that the writing was sharper and the stories more interesting. I could hardly give a damn about Enterprise, the Temporal Cold War, any of that. Time travel was handled in a much more interesting way on QL.
        
        --------
        
        "Oh, I'll wake up
        To any sound of engines,
        Ev'ry gull a seeking craft..."
        
        Kate Bush, And Dream of Sheep
        
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        RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
        By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:09:31 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        Quote:
        Yet I found Al and Sam to be likable and approachable, while I find Archer and co. to really be the opposite. Well, okay, I like Hoshi and Porthos. Outside of that I could give a damn about the rest.
        
        Agreed. Actually, Al has become my favorite character. I mean Dean Stockwell just fell into that role lock, stock, and barrel. And it's funny but in the interview snippets on the 1st season DVD set, they all claim that the randy Al was patterned after Bellasario. It was just hilareous to hear them say that and have Bellasario trying to deny it.
        
        Quote:
        
        But when Sam is bemoaning the fact that he cannot save his brother in that awesome two-parter, then discovers that to save his brother he missed an opportunity to rescue Al, that was powerful drama.
        
        Oh yeah. But add to that the photographer babe who ends up getting killed but still wins a Pulitzer posthumously - her prize-winning picture being that of the young Al being lead away to the POW camp. I mean that was just some deep shit there.
        
        Quote:
        
        Or what about when Sam is in Lee Harvey Oswald's body and they addressed the Kennedy assasination and the so-called conspiracy, that was powerful storytelling.
        
        To paraphrase Al:
        
        "Maybe we like to think it is a conspiracy because that somehow makes the craziness of the world make sense."
        
        Exactly. We want there to be a conspiracy, we don't want to believe a single man could cause such catastrophic events to happen.
        
        I haven't seen that ep but living in the state where the 1-bullet man is Senator (and where my mom used to work with his wife back in the '50s), I still don't buy anything he says... But that's neither here nor there. Past history.
        
        Quote:
        
        Sorry, I digressed again. I feel Bakula had more to work with on QL, that the writing was sharper and the stories more interesting. I could hardly give a damn about Enterprise, the Temporal Cold War, any of that. Time travel was handled in a much more interesting way on QL.
        
        Well if you think about it, every single episode of QL WAS "time travel". But it was just secondary, a throwaway concept... Blatantly presented as a cheap plot device, not really taken seriously at all (aside from the real science theory of strings behind it), because it was essentially the segue to move this one man through history into different settings. And thus it focusses on the people within the stories rather than the tech that got him there to be part of the story.
        
        --------
        
        "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
        ----
        "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
        
        Reply
        Quote
        
        RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
        By: Meglo (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:26:19 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        I actually didn't much care for the Lee Harvey Oswald episode. I realize it was Bellisario's (who met Oswald in the Marines) rebuttal to Oliver Stone's JFK, but I didn't like the idea it was Sam who saved Jackie. There was a real man there that day who may or may not have saved the first lady's life.
        
        Now, The Leap Home/Vietnam two parter was good. I do sort of cringe when he sings "Imagine", though. I mean, there were plenty of episodes were Bakula was able to sing and it fit in with the story. It seemed kind of random for him to bust out on the porch.
        
        --------
        
        The supervisor is Verizon!
        
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        RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
        By: rumandchocolate (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:19:08 on Jun 21, 2004
        
        I agree with you on the Lee Harvey Oswald episode, but for different reasons... I always disliked when the show deviated from its established premise. This was (I think) the first of many "special" QL episodes in which they started to tinker with Sam's missions. Instead of leaping into Oswald, fixing what needed to be fixed and moving on... he leaped, then leaped to another point in Oswald's life, then leaped to yet another point in Oswald's life... and again. I have the same issue with the Civil War episode in which they techbabble their way to an explanation. And don't get me started on the evil "leper" ;-)
        
        But I disagree with your opinion of the "Imagine" scene. That's the scene I use to convince people of just how good QL was at times... it's incredibly powerful, and in no way random. Sam, desperate to take the opportunity to save his father, brother, and sister, tries to prove his story to his sister... and it winds up backfiring, making things worse. The sister's reaction to Sam singing a song she'd never heard before and realizing that if what Sam is saying is true, then her dad and brother are going to die is undeniably poignant. And (if memory serves) it leads directly to a scene where Sam "quits" because he's tired of making a difference to strangers and can't do anything about the people he cares for.
        
        Brings tears to this man's eyes.
        
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        RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
        By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:52:46 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        Quote:
        
        Now, The Leap Home/Vietnam two parter was good. I do sort of cringe when he sings "Imagine", though. I mean, there were plenty of episodes were Bakula was able to sing and it fit in with the story. It seemed kind of random for him to bust out on the porch.
        
        Well now coming from me who lived next door (sharing a wall) with a guy a few years older than me who had bought the Beatles "White Album" the day it released and was available in 1968 and who proceeded to BLAST IT almost 24 hours a day in his bedroom (which was across from mine). I mean OMG. Then for the next 10 years, he bought every single Beatles album (and then each of their individual abums once they broke up) and I was assaulted with it DAILY.
        
        I must have heard "Revolution" (which I liked) about a billion times, as well as "Let it Be", etc etc.
        
        I mean, they did some real classic stuff and I am partial to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band... But at 2 am on a friggin' school night?
        
        But with respect to Bakula's "Imagine" - remember Sam had lept into himself as a teenager and is singing it to his little sister and the song had actually been done by Lennon after the Beatles had broke up, so it was WAY (well, a couple years) in her future. ;-)
        
        I believe the ep took place in 1969 and I know "Imagine" came out in the U.S. in like '71 (gosh, I remember being at Girl Scout camp and it was on the radio all the time...lol). So his busting out with it wasn't "random" at all but was like so much that the character was shown doing in eps - anticipating their history through his comments to them and his actions around them, supposedly done because he was a bit confused due to his "swiss cheesed memory" (well... except for the Civil War ep and the Leap Back ep) LOL.
        
        Gosh, I remember going on my first trip to London back in 1970 and they were all in mourning over there over the Beatles (although Twiggy was soothing their souls... LOL).
        
        What was a hilareous one was "Disco Inferno" where he lept into a stunt man and his main gig was eventually supposed to be a scene from the movie "Earthquake", and they even had Lorne Green in there. LOL Even at the beginning when he has just lept into the guy - right in the middle of the guy's filming a scene in a Disco where an actor with a rifle hauls off and blasts him clear across the room after he says to himself "I hate disco". But even better was the end where Sam makes a bet to his leapee's father (based on Al's information), that Gerald Ford was going to trip down the steps of Airforce One (which they were watching live on TV when Ford had arrived somewhere)... And they're all sitting there watching with baited breath and he finally does... LOL That just reminded me so much of SNL when Chevy Chase used to do Ford and his falling all over the place. Well 'cause Ford DID fall all over the place.
        
        --------
        
        "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
        ----
        "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
        
        Reply
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- RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
  By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:19:03 on Jun 16, 2004
  
  Quote:
  This is really one of the most extremist responses I've ever read. Where does the anger come from?
  
  Steve - I have been reading his interviews over the past couple years and it has gotten worse and worse.
  
  Do you REALLY think that I and many others revel in the fact that this franchise is dying on the vine out of benign neglect?
  
  Yes there are people who have summarily dismissed this show entirely, calling for it to immediately go off the air. I have not been one of those voices because I have felt that there are a good set of characters who were created, with a group of actors who have alot of potential given the right material, AND a very valid and fascinating premise/setting, that could have been worked with.
  
  I am one of the few here who has actually been willing to publicly support VOY and its characters, because except for some of the bizarre things that went on in that final season with 7 of 9, I actually enjoyed the show - one that I considered my "warm and fuzzy" Trek. And interestingly enough, it is that warmth and fuzziness that so many on this board despise with utter contempt because they wished to see the "dark" and "gritty" - and of course their expectations weren't met at all. I didn't expect VOY to be dark and gritty at all - I correctly assumed that it would be a TNG-lite, but taking place in another part of the galaxy. And I got what I expected and continue to go back and watch some of my fave episodes of it off my tapes.
  
  But there is a sickness here that has promulgated itself within ENT and it relates very much to the mentality that Braga has shown in his interviews. And it has also promulgated itself in how the T'Pol character, as a female, has been shown and portrayed the past 3 years.
  
  And I am NOT going to be quiet about and I am going to protest LOUDLY. It has been an absolute DISGRACE.
  
  THAT is my "anger".
  
  Quote:
  
  The fact that so many fans adore FC means you must surely be in the minority with such a hateful opinion. Criticism is one thing but this is just pretty, well, crazy.
  
  Well now you need to read my post over in this thread, where I note the following:
  
  "You know, I have argued right here on this board in support of many things from FC particularly about how there was a very very different sci-fi "feel" to it, most notably in the design of the Borg set within the 1701-E's Engineering section, the makeup, the music, the lighting, and Alice Krige's acting. The scenes with her were very moody in a true dark sense IMHO - something that was never recaptured in VOY with both she and Susanna Thompson.
  
  It was something that reminded me of one of my fave sci-fi "concept" mags back in the late '70s/early '80s - Omni magazine, which I know you are familiar with (I still have my 1st issue and the 10-year anniversary one and perhaps a few others in between). There was something quite unique about Omni that blended science fiction, science fact, science commentary, and science-fiction concept art into a sometimes bizarre, often sensual and always surrealistic look at science fiction. It was quite mind-blowing.
  
  Yet the sad thing is that Braga's whole characterization of what I considered a particularly powerful scene between Data and the Borg Queen - mainly because something like that had never been done in Trek before (because Trek has never been what I consider "hardcore" science fiction), just destroys the whole mystique of it that I took home after seeing it for the first time."
  
  So no Steve, I am and always have been a supporter of FC - in its story (although I didn't agree what was done to Cochran, but accepted it because for the role he was given, James Cromwell did a pretty good job), the pacing, the effects, the mood, and most spectacularly, the theme of "obsession", a very "Human" Star Trek theme, that was brought to the fore in the dialog between Picard and Lily regarding the hunt for the White Whale, including the very "realistic" dialog for Lily regarding her admission of never having read Mellville despite her calling Picard an "Ahab". ;-)
  
  However what I protest is what has now been taken from the events of FC, and futher twisted around to justify crap like Borg in the 22nd century and a completely turned around timeline for the Star Trek universe. And he has pretty much come out and said this - that the events of FC essentially changed Star Trek forever.
  
  It just isn't right Steve. It's killing the franchise and driving the die-hards away who have clung to this franchise through thick and thin, through the ups and downs and nothing but re-runs, books, conventions, and fan mags, over this period of 38 years, and who have continued to try to bring new fans into the franchise by word of mouth and who have given up.
  
  It cannot continue.
  
  As Picard has said from either Moore's or Braga's very own hand in FC:
  
  "The line must be drawn here. This far, no further! And, I will make them pay for what they've done."
  
  (and the fandom HAS been making them and the franchise "pay")
  
  --------
  
  "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
  ----
  "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
  
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  - RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
    By: Meglo (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:36:29 on Jun 16, 2004
    
    Quote:
    "The line must be drawn here.
    
    No no no, it's "The line must be drawn heeYAH!"
    
    --------
    
    The supervisor is Verizon!
    
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    - RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
      By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:55:31 on Jun 16, 2004
      
      LOL
      
      That's like my fellow Philly people saying - "Give me that! It's mi-yan!"
      
      --------
      
      "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
      ----
      "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
      
      Reply
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  - RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
    By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 11:47:18 on Jun 16, 2004
    
    Has anyone ever told you taht you talk too much? ;)
    
    --------
    
    The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
    my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
    breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
    only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
    
    Reply
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    - RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
      By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:07:00 on Jun 16, 2004
      
      Quote:
      Has anyone ever told you taht you talk too much? ;)
      
      And would I really give a shit what "anyone" thought? ;-)
      
      --------
      
      "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
      ----
      "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
      
      Reply
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      - RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
        By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 13:37:35 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        And does Rick and Brannon really give a shit what you think?
        
        --------
        
        The autumn days swung soft around me, like cotton on
        my skin. But as the embers of the summer lost their
        breath and disappeared, my heart went cold, and
        only hollow rhythms resounded from within.
        
        Reply
        Quote
        
        RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
        By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:57:00 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        And do I give a shit what they think? ;-)
        
        --------
        
        "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
        ----
        "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
        
        Reply
        Quote
        
        RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
        By: Master Toddy (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:58:32 on Jun 16, 2004
        
        I don't give a shit what ANY of you think! :D
        
        Reply
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        RE: LEAVE!! | Report this post to moderator
        By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:08:36 on Jun 17, 2004
        
        Cool. I like your style.
        
        --------
        
        "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
        ----
        "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
        
        Reply
        Quote

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Goodbye Braga, hello improved STAR TREK | Report this post to moderator By: Deslok 2 (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:44:32 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: Goodbye Braga, hello improved STAR TREK | Report this post to moderator By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 01:00:39 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: Goodbye Braga, hello improved STAR TREK | Report this post to moderator By: Deslok 2 (Odo's file, contact) @ 04:27:10 on Jun 19, 2004

All Good Things - blah | Report this post to moderator By: Nitride (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:07:15 on Jun 16, 2004 | (1)

RE: All Good Things - blah | Report this post to moderator By: Sabotman (Odo's file, contact) @ 02:40:46 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: All Good Things - blah | Report this post to moderator By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:50:55 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: All Good Things - blah | Report this post to moderator By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:46:32 on Jun 16, 2004

Adjusted for Inflation? | Report this post to moderator By: Postdoc (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:24:49 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: Adjusted for Inflation? | Report this post to moderator By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:34:02 on Jun 16, 2004

A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator By: timmer33 (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:28:29 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:53:27 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:13:01 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator By: Cymro (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:00:05 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:43:48 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator By: Scorpius (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:42:37 on Jun 16, 2004

More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best! | Report this post to moderator By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:47:56 on Jun 16, 2004

Dear Scorned: | Report this post to moderator By: Darth Brooks (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:04:52 on Jun 18, 2004

RE: Dear Scorned: | Report this post to moderator By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:27:27 on Jun 19, 2004

RE: Dear Scorned: | Report this post to moderator By: Darth Brooks (Odo's file, contact) @ 01:05:23 on Jun 19, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 02:08:19 on Jun 19, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:33:03 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:06:37 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: rumandchocolate (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:28:10 on Jun 21, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:47:33 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:24:42 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:57:32 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:48:38 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:20:37 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: rumandchocolate (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:42:46 on Jun 21, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:44:56 on Jun 21, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: rumandchocolate (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:28:04 on Jun 21, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:35:27 on Jun 21, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: Darth Brooks (Odo's file, contact) @ 05:36:33 on Jun 19, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:21:41 on Jun 19, 2004 | (1)

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: Darth Brooks (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:41:32 on Jun 19, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 04:34:34 on Jun 20, 2004

WOW | Report this post to moderator By: Norm3 (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:16:16 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 12:55:44 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:05:18 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 13:33:47 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:59:35 on Jun 16, 2004 | (1)

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:53:58 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:10:43 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:32:05 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:09:29 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:53:21 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:13:25 on Jun 18, 2004 | (1)

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 12:53:22 on Jun 21, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Brikar (Odo's file, contact) @ 03:27:49 on Jun 18, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:15:48 on Jun 18, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:48:22 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 17:20:00 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:11:41 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 13:54:35 on Jun 21, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:37:18 on Jun 23, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:21:31 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:12:25 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:24:15 on Jun 18, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 05:54:27 on Jun 18, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:11:39 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Slaphappy (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:20:40 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:19:37 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:25:24 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:37:20 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:53:14 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:09:00 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Anderson (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:50:20 on Jun 18, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:46:15 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: katefan (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:20:36 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: MaxPower (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:08:10 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:05:42 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: katefan (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:13:17 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:35:45 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 13:03:16 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:46:59 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:39:00 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:02:05 on Jun 17, 2004

Refreshing | Report this post to moderator By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 11:39:29 on Jun 16, 2004 | (1)

RE: Refreshing | Report this post to moderator By: neo2004 (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:39:51 on Jun 16, 2004

OK, this interview wasn't so bad... | Report this post to moderator By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:01:04 on Jun 16, 2004

Goodbye Braga, hello improved STAR TREK | Report this post to moderator
By: Deslok 2 (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:44:32 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: Goodbye Braga, hello improved STAR TREK | Report this post to moderator
By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 01:00:39 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: Goodbye Braga, hello improved STAR TREK | Report this post to moderator
By: Deslok 2 (Odo's file, contact) @ 04:27:10 on Jun 19, 2004

All Good Things - blah | Report this post to moderator
By: Nitride (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:07:15 on Jun 16, 2004 | (1)

RE: All Good Things - blah | Report this post to moderator
By: Sabotman (Odo's file, contact) @ 02:40:46 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: All Good Things - blah | Report this post to moderator
By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:50:55 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: All Good Things - blah | Report this post to moderator
By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:46:32 on Jun 16, 2004

Adjusted for Inflation? | Report this post to moderator
By: Postdoc (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:24:49 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: Adjusted for Inflation? | Report this post to moderator
By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:34:02 on Jun 16, 2004

A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator
By: timmer33 (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:28:29 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator
By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:53:27 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator
By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:13:01 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator
By: Cymro (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:00:05 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator
By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:43:48 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: A question for Steve | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorpius (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:42:37 on Jun 16, 2004

More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best! | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:47:56 on Jun 16, 2004

Dear Scorned: | Report this post to moderator
By: Darth Brooks (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:04:52 on Jun 18, 2004

RE: Dear Scorned: | Report this post to moderator
By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:27:27 on Jun 19, 2004

RE: Dear Scorned: | Report this post to moderator
By: Darth Brooks (Odo's file, contact) @ 01:05:23 on Jun 19, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 02:08:19 on Jun 19, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:33:03 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:06:37 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: rumandchocolate (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:28:10 on Jun 21, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:47:33 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:24:42 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:57:32 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:48:38 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:20:37 on Jun 20, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: rumandchocolate (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:42:46 on Jun 21, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:44:56 on Jun 21, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: rumandchocolate (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:28:04 on Jun 21, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: Brent (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:35:27 on Jun 21, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: Darth Brooks (Odo's file, contact) @ 05:36:33 on Jun 19, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:21:41 on Jun 19, 2004 | (1)

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: Darth Brooks (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:41:32 on Jun 19, 2004

RE: Dear Brooks | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 04:34:34 on Jun 20, 2004

WOW | Report this post to moderator
By: Norm3 (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:16:16 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 12:55:44 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:05:18 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 13:33:47 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:59:35 on Jun 16, 2004 | (1)

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:53:58 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:10:43 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:32:05 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:09:29 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:53:21 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:13:25 on Jun 18, 2004 | (1)

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 12:53:22 on Jun 21, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Brikar (Odo's file, contact) @ 03:27:49 on Jun 18, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:15:48 on Jun 18, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:48:22 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 17:20:00 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:11:41 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 13:54:35 on Jun 21, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:37:18 on Jun 23, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:21:31 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:12:25 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:24:15 on Jun 18, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 05:54:27 on Jun 18, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:11:39 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Slaphappy (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:20:40 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:19:37 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:25:24 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:37:20 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:53:14 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:09:00 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Anderson (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:50:20 on Jun 18, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:46:15 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: katefan (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:20:36 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: MaxPower (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:08:10 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:05:42 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: katefan (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:13:17 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:35:45 on Jun 16, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 13:03:16 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:46:59 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 16:39:00 on Jun 17, 2004

RE: More typical Braga "spin"....hence stupidity at its best | Report this post to moderator
By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:02:05 on Jun 17, 2004

Refreshing | Report this post to moderator
By: Chronic Harlot (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 11:39:29 on Jun 16, 2004 | (1)

RE: Refreshing | Report this post to moderator
By: neo2004 (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:39:51 on Jun 16, 2004

OK, this interview wasn't so bad... | Report this post to moderator
By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:01:04 on Jun 16, 2004