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News Tribblets

Nov 23 | Chuck returns to NBC with a special two-hour show on Sunday, Jan 10, 2010, before returning to its regular time slot, Mondays at 8pm on the following night. It's return to prime time television can be attributed to a successful fan renewnal campaign last year. CHUCK is a one-hour, action-comedy series that follows Chuck Bartowski (Zachary Levi, "Less Than Perfect") -- a computer geek who is catapulted into a new career as the government's most vital secret agent. This upcoming season will include some special guest stars, including Brandon Routh of "Superman Returns" who will play CIA agent Daniel Shaw in an episode, and the addition of SUBWAY restaurant as a major advertiser to the show. Chuck averaged a 4.0/6 rating last season, about eight percent better than the recently cancelled "Trauma". Ratings-challenged Heroes moves back an hour when Chuck returns on Monday nights. STAR TREK VOYAGER's Robert Duncan McNeill serves Chuck as a supervising producer and director.

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Nov 17 | Originally hired as co-executive producer to help with the second half of the show's first season, Kevin Murphy has now taken the reins of Caprica, the Battlestar Galactica prequel on Syfy, according to The Hollywood Reporter. He now serves as an executive producer along with Ronald D. Moore, David Eick and Jane Espenson and oversees the day-to-day functions of the show.

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Nov 12 | Star Trek star Zachary Quinto is loosely attached to star in the romantic dramedy Whirligig, reports Risky Business.Quinto would play the lead role in the independent Canadian film, which is aiming to shoot early next year. The movie centers on a man who, in a misguided attempt to woo an older woman, befriends the woman's adopted son.Chaz Thorne is directing the pic, based on a screenplay by Michael Amo, creator of the Canadian supernatural series "The Listener."

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Nov 11 | The CNS Foundation, is hosting an on-line charity auction at www.charitybuzz.com.   One of the items they are auctioning is a signed movie poster of the new Star Trek movie which has all the cast members and writers.  The president of our organization is Carol Abrams, JJ's mother,  and she arranged for the donation from Bad Robot Production Company.  J.J. Abrams is also a major donor to their organization. The funds raised will go to help find a cure to neurological disorders in children.  The auction link is here.

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Nov 10 | Candice Bergen, Charles Lisanby, Don Pardo, Gene Roddenberry, Tom and Dick Smothers and Bob Stewart have been selected as the next inductees into the Television Academy's Hall of Fame. They will be honored at a Jan. 20 ceremony at the Beverly Hills Hotel. "This year's inductees have challenged and shaped popular culture, changed television for the better and entertained us royally while doing so," TV Academy Chairman-CEO John Shaffner said. More info at the Hollywood Reporter

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Feature Story

Features

Bring Back Kirk Campaign Launches New Offensive, Group Talks New Trailer

Features

By GustavoLeao / 03:10, 22 March 2004 / TrekWeb Features

The new Bring Back Kirk trailer made its debut online today, William Shatner's birthday. The ambitious 9-minute trailer features impressive fan-made CGI effects, and appearances from character and ships from all five STAR TREK series, from ENTERPRISE's 'Captain Archer' to VOYAGER's 'Admiral Janeway'. Here is a brief synopsis of the trailer: With the backing of the Federation, and a newly refitted Enterprise A, 'Ambassador Spock' successfully rescues his friend and former Captain, the legendary 'James T Kirk'. Soon after, Federation worlds including Earth and Vulcan,are attacked, forcing Kirk and crew to embark on a special mission which will unite three centuries of Starship legends, in a battle to save the Star Trek universe.



TrekWeb caught up with the trailer's production team - Jason Turner, Jay B. and Will Jaspers - to get the scoop on the making of the trailer and the BBK campaign.

TREKWEB : Guys, can you introduce yourselves and your role at the Bring Back Kirk campaign.

JAY: I'm Jay from the United States, current webmaster of BringBackKirk.com and editor of the new trailer.

JASON: I'm Jason from England, one of two CGI artists for the new trailer, and the UK representative of our campaign.

WIL: I'm Wil from the Netherlands, one of the CGI artists, mostly responsible for building the interior meshes and characters.

TREKWEB: How was the new trailer conceived, from concept to the finished product? How much time did it take?

JAY: We began work on the new trailer approximately two years ago. However, it was reworked from scratch several times. A few conventions have shown exclusive versions of custom-made Bring Back Kirk trailers that are totally different from the version we are now releasing online. We knew from the enthusiastic response to our test footage at these events, that we were on to something very special, that all fans could enjoy.

JASON: It's pretty much been an ongoing project since Wil joined the team. He emailed us out of the blue with a very ambitious but slick video promoting William Shatner's "The Return". From then on his contributions to the CGI enabled us to do things we couldn't have accomplished before, and so began the construction of a more character-oriented production.

WIL: It was really a case of experimenting until we were all happy with what we had. We knew we had to bring Kirk back, and we wanted Spock to do this. We knew we wanted at least one character from each Star Trek series. And we knew we wanted some exciting action sequences.The key was coming up with a story that would believably weave all these elements together,and tie them into one main narrative.



TREKWEB: The CGI effects are really impressive,especially the new scenes with Kirk,Ambassador Spock,Scotty and McCoy in TNG-style uniforms. How was that footage produced?

JASON: Obviously we don't have the technology or the resources of ILM or Digital Domain, and we're doing this in our spare time on home computers with no budget, so this isn't going to be award winning CGI. But it didn't stop us from being ambitious. As an experiment that turned out well, I created a mesh of the head of Commander Tuvok to go with Wil's TNG uniform. The CGI Tuvok features in several Voyager shuttle scenes, and allowed us to add that extra sense of realism when we peer through the shuttle windows and out of them from the inside.

WIL: Everything you see, uniforms and surroundings are made up in 3D models. This way you can move your camera in any given direction. A cut-out of the persons head is made from video footage, allowing us to counteract the original camera or character movement. Now you can move your camera slightly to give it the effect as if there is really a person talking or moving. It is like a coin, take the head side and rotate it slightly, you can rotate it without a major distortion until you reach a certain point, and you have to do the same with your camera. Having all the rest in 3D will give you the right result.

TREWKEB: You have included in the trailer ships and characters from all the Trek series, including Enterprise and Voyager. Why?

JAY: This was our way of showing that the possibilities of bringing Kirk back are endless. So we developed a storyline that would reach out to several shows and centuries. Star Trek is a vast universe now, and we want to show how exciting it would be to see Kirk interact with characters from other shows. We also felt that if we were going to have crossover material, we didn't want to neglect ANY of the various Trek shows from the trailer. We wanted this trailer to be something all Trek fans could enjoy.

JASON: Our film is about showing possibilities. Enterprise is currently the only Trek in production. Realistically, Kirk's return can be done there in the most cost effective way. That's why we show Kirk meeting Archer. When last we saw him, Sisko was in the wormhole and said that he would be back one day. A devastating attack might give him incentive to return. He was instrumental in the Dominion War, and is one of Starfleet's finest. So let's have a fleet--with The Enterprise A, the Enterprise E, Voyager, Defiant, and Titan, which is a first for Star Trek.

WIL: We believe that one of the reasons Mr. Shatner's post-Generations Kirk books are so successful is that they reach out to fans of all of the Trek series. It's not just about the original series. All 5 shows have made their mark on Trek lore, and we wish to capitalize on that by reaching out to fans of all the series', just like Mr. Shatner did. To do this project justice, at least one of the TOS sequels will need to be used.

TREKWEB: Some of the scenes, like Spock at Veridian III and the McCoy hologram, are reminiscent of Shatner's highly successful Trek novels. Did you use those novels as inspiration for the trailer?

JAY: We drew inspiration from the novels, our own ideas, and we had a contest where many Trek fans submitted their own ideas, as well. In fact the winning idea for our contest resulted in the meeting of Kirk and Archer. One fan submitted the idea of using the Guardian, and another the idea of Kirk appearing on Archer's bridge out of nowhere. We cross-pollinated the two ideas, and the result is one of the better sequences in the trailer. Ultimately, many elements were integrated into this version.

JASON: We draw some inspiration from William Shatner's works, as his books provide some very good Star Trek stories, however, given the constraints of not actually having a script or the actors, filming The Return was impossible. Those books, and the sales success they achieved, are proof that Kirk's return is viable, still sells, and that Kirk can function very well in the current Trek era. And of course the main narrative was inspired by the ongoing story arc on Star Trek: Enterprise.

WIL: We start with Spock at Veridian III because it is a logical place to start. When last we saw Spock, he was on Romulus. We presume that once the Federation and Romulans formed their Dominion War alliance, Spock would find it logical to return to the Federation to continue his unification efforts. Upon his return, he felt a certain need to visit Kirk's grave on Veridian III, and that's where the trailer picks up. As for McCoy, it only seems natural that an EMH on Kirk's ship would be of McCoy. It's as much a homage to Mr. Kelley as it is one to Mr. Shatner's books.

TREKWEB: The trailer will be screened at conventions in the U.S, Europe and other countries?

JAY: Definitely. Like the first trailer, this one will be shown at many conventions throughout the world. We're grateful to the fans that have volunteered to support the cause by making the effort to show the trailer
at these conventions. We're literally overwhelmed by the enthusiasm of campaign supporters and humbled by the generosity of convention committees.

JASON: As Jay mentioned earlier, various versions of the trailer have made it to conventions in the UK, the United States, and Brazil, with positive response. Consequently people have come to us asking if they can show it, and arranging for it to be shown by approaching the conventions on their own initiative. Amazingly, a lot of the material shown at cons last year, is now some of our most embarrassing test-footage that will never be released online for anything other than a laugh.

WIL: The finished version will get its premiere in Brazil next month. Several UK and US events have expressed interest in showing the trailer this year. If anyone out there is running a convention and would be interested in showing our trailer, we can provide it to them in any suitable format (DVD, VHS, VCD, AVI etc) to anywhere in the world.

TREKWEB: Rick Berman has said in recent interviews that he would love to see Bill Shatner guest-starring in an future episode of Enterprise. How do you feel about that?

JAY: I personally would love to see Shatner on any of the Star Trek spin-offs. But if they're going to do it, they should do it with Shatner playing the role of Kirk. As we are fond of saying, *anyone* can play Kirk's ancestor, but only William Shatner can play James T. Kirk. The purpose of the campaign is to have Kirk back one last time to undo his death in Generations, and not kill him off again. Kirk deserves a happy ending, and a Kirk return on Enterprise can finally give a lot of fans that optimistic ending that Star Trek became known for.

JASON: I'd love to see it, but for Paramount, the choice is clear. It's about money. And Kirk's return is about as sure a thing as they can get. What was the highest rated show in November 2003 Sweeps? Andy Griffith sitting around in a recreated Mayberry set talking with Don Knotts, Jim Nabors and Ron Howard. Enterprise's chief competition is Smallville. Its highest rated show was when they got Christopher Reeve to guest. When DS9 did Trials and Tribbleations, the rating was a 7.7. No Trek show, not even Broken Bow, has matched that rating since. William Shatner as Captain Kirk can generate that audience. It's our goal to see that happen. But that's not the reason I'd like to see Kirk on Enterprise; it's a by-product of what could be the greatest science fiction return of the small screen.

WIL: It would be a cheat to have William Shatner come back to the franchise after 10 years, and not play Kirk. Good writing can easily solve the difference in eras. Additionally, Rick Berman isn't the only person who has spoken positively of William Shatner appearing on Enterprise. Mr. Shatner has been open-minded about the idea. Scott Bakula has been quoted as saying he wanted Captain Kirk to show up. Brannon Braga once admitted that killing Kirk was a mistake. Mike Sussman has said that he would love to see it. And Mr Sussman certainly has proved he can not only write great Star Trek, but he has all sorts of nods and tributes to the original series laced inside his episodes.

TREKWEB: It has been 10 years since Shatner played James T. Kirk in Star Trek Generations. Some fans feel that he and Nimoy are too old to play their parts. How to you answer to that criticism?

JAY: Shatner is no older than actors like Sean Connery, Clint Eastwood, or Gene Hackman. We aren't asking for the character to do things that are physically impossible. Nor are we asking for a new TV series centering on the character. We're asking for one last adventure. It doesn't matter if it's an appearance on a TV episode, a TV Movie, or a theatrical film. We just want Kirk back one last time. Age is irrelevant.

JASON: Recently, we interviewed David Gerrold. He was asked the same question. His response was perfect, "As long as Shatner can get out of bed (or into it, for that matter), he'll always be Captain Kirk." Fact is, as we have seen from the recent Priceline commercials, neither man is exactly in a walker or ready for the old age home. William Shatner keeps a more active schedule than many people half his age. People have a hard time keeping up with him. We're not looking to see Kirk do the flying dropkick or wrestle with a Gorn. But the Kirk of Balance of Terror or Wrath of Khan is very doable. Incidentally he can be seen on two recent Spplat Attack DVDs outsmarting people twice as young as him. And that's Shatner running around with a gun for real.

WIL: Seeing Mr. Shatner as Captain Kirk is very realistic given that people in the Trek universe have such long life spans. Plus, in the real world, John Glenn was sent up in a space shuttle at age 76. Mr. Shatner is a young man compared to John Glenn. He can do it, and Paramount would be smart to take advantage. I would add that Mr. Shatner is constantly in work on the television and movie circuit.



TREKWEB: What's next for the Bring Back Kirk campaign?

JAY: Right now we are concentrating on distribution of the trailer to various conventions, in addition to our regular efforts of getting our voices heard by The Powers That Be. We're also working on a few surprises for 2004. We haven't quit, and won't quit until there is a resolution. Never underestimate the devotion of Star Trek fans.Captain Kirk's death was the biggest plot mistake in Trek history. It can easily be reversed.

JASON: The trailer is our main focus at the moment, and is proving to be overwhelmingly popular offline. We're hoping we can cope with the online demand. Currently, we are looking to see Kirk return on Enterprise. If Enterprise gets cancelled, then we will lobby for a TV movie. William Shatner wants the chance. Paramount needs to get to the negotiating table, and it is our goal to see this through. We believe in the possibilities.

WIL: The Bring Back Kirk campaign extends far beyond us. People generally seem to want to see this happen. Recently, a group of fans called New Voyages actually filmed an episode recasting TOS. That episode was a phenomenal success. I might add that they too implied that there was a post-Generations future for Kirk. But at the moment, we're just going to see how well the trailer goes down with the fan community.

TREKWEB: Thank you for you answers and good luck with the new trailer.

JASON: Thank you for the interview. We appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. And we hope everyone gets a chance to see the trailer and enjoys the production. Any and all feedback can be sent to us at: officials@bringbackkirk.com

A preview page can be found here.

Finally, you can download the trailer here. Mirror sites pages can be located here and here.



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112 comments on this story... | Report this post to moderator
By: tomba1701 (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:08:05 on Apr 06, 2004

...better than most threads about Enterprise. The possibility of Kirk's return after 10 years generates more Trek-related discussion than an episode of the current Trek series.

TPTB (at Paramount, not TFIIC in Berman's camp) should be looking at this carefully.

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"Commander, laws change, depending on who's making them. But justice, is justice" - Odo, "A Man Alone"


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First Trailer | Report this post to moderator
By: mohap (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:32:19 on Apr 03, 2004

Anyone know where we can download the first trailer??


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Trailer shows need for "connective tissue" | Report this post to moderator
By: sky (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:31:30 on Mar 29, 2004

What this trailer does demonstrate is that some "connective tissue" would really help this stumbling franchise. Since DS9 ended, the shows VOY and ENT have not had much connection to the established Trek universe. And ENT is hanging out there on its own. The most intriguing thing about ENT is the glipses of the Federation's future.

BUt ENT fails in that it does not link to the characters that carried the franchise all these years. I'd best most fans would agree that it's the characters, not the sci-fi scenarios, that have captured our interest since 1966 -- the idea of people similar to us dealing with "strange new worlds" and all that.

Anyway, the principal "proof of concept" offered by this trailer is to engraft ENT into the TOS and ENT storylines. Can this be done without Kirk? Perhaps. But this trailer does show that Kirk is after all the focal point of Trek, and it wouldnt be the same without him.

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"When I was your age, I didn't watch television! I LIVED! So... move out of your parent's basements!" -- William Shatner on SNL, 1986


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Hello, Kirk is dead | Report this post to moderator
By: AntonyF (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 08:01:23 on Mar 29, 2004

Hmm. Not knocking some fans who have had some fun -- good on them -- but I do wonder if people are watching the same trailer as me? It does scream fanboy, and there's nothing wrong with that, it's just that some people are acting like they've seen a feature film. Whereas I just saw an amusing trailer with a daft story. Just go pick Kirk up... and everyone is together!

The thing is, I find such fan campaigns just amusing diversions. Good on the people for having some fun, doing a trailer etc. but when does this become TrekWeb front page news? Slow news day?

But let's not forget, all this is predicated on this preposterous thing of bringing back Kirk. Kirk is dead. Live with it. Secondly, Shatner is no spring chicken, and he's doing other things now. Would he want to come back and do Trek when he's got other work? Has anyone asked him? And then there's the other characters, like Scotty. I'm not being cruel, just realistic, but is Jimmy Doohan even in a state to be able to star in something?

So these things are okay as a diversion, but rather pointless. Kirk is dead, the actors are doing other things... and Paramount are trying to keep Enterprise afloat, without trying to invest in some other venture. No one can say "don't do this" to people doing the campaign, nor should they. But conversely I think a health dose of reality wouldn't go amiss.

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Lydia: "I've never lost at mortal combat yet." Diana: "Idiot. If you had, you'd be dead." -- V, "The Champion"


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  • RE: Hello, Kirk is dead | Report this post to moderator
    By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:31:03 on Mar 29, 2004

    Even dead, the Kirk character has more life than the franchise under Berman and Braga. And in Star Trek, death need not be the end. Shatner can easily play the part. And yes, he has always been open to Kirk's return.

    You are completely missing the point about this trailer when you bring up Scotty. The point is that the return of Kirk is viable--not to sell this particular story.

    If you want reality--here's your dose--

    Star Trek currently is in the toilet. The ratings are absolutely awful. No one gives a crap about Enterprise. The ratings back that up. No one gives a crap about TNG. Nemesis' box office totals back that up.

    Berman and Braga have run Star Trek into the ground.

    Meanwhile, Captain Kirk's return got an overwhelmingly positive reaction. There is no doubt that whether you like the idea or not, Kirk will put asses in the seats or in front of the TV.

    Star Trek needs the return of Kirk. There's your reality.


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    • RE: Hello, Kirk is dead | Report this post to moderator
      By: AntonyF (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 17:01:14 on Mar 31, 2004

      Well, Nemesis's failure could be attributed to many things. Being released a few days before LOTR I would say is a major reality. To say no one cares about TNG is laughable, it was massively successful when on TV and has been a profit maker for Paramount on the big screen too.

      Let's not forget First Contact. Braga wrote it. Berman produced it. No Kirk. And lots of money!

      Enterprise ratings aren't good... but the few million who watch each week in the US alone would disagree that no one cares.

      Not so much Braga, but Berman has run Trek for many years, and has been heavily involved for 17 years. He has seen the highs as well as the lows, so to credit him with bringing down Trek is severely one sided.

      Yes, putting Kirk back would attract some people back, at least for a while. But lots of people watch things like Survivor. Getting people to watch, and gaining quality/believabilty, are not necessarily the same thing.

      --------

      Lydia: "I've never lost at mortal combat yet." Diana: "Idiot. If you had, you'd be dead." -- V, "The Champion"


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      • RE: Hello, Kirk is dead | Report this post to moderator
        By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:18:33 on Apr 01, 2004

        The few million who watch Enterprise each week are not enough to have an impact. They are set. It's the millions of people that STOPPED watching Trek that need to be addressed. Bringing back Kirk would get people to watch, and Enterprise NEEDS a ratings boost.

        FC did not make as much money as people think. Adjust it for inflation, and it ranks 5th among Trek films. Compared to other films released that year, FC came in 19th place. Only ST5, Insurrection and Nemesis did worse in the rankings.

        FC also had the Borg before they were ruined on Voyager.

        And most important, FC is clearly a fluke in the sense that there have been no other Trek successes since Generations. DS9, while good, declined in the ratings annually. Voyager and Enterprise were disasters. Insurrection and Nemesis were also disasters.

        Nemesis didn't fail because of release date. Nemesis failed because there was nothing in it worth watching. Nothing original. We've seen it all before, only this time, it's a copy of a copy.

        Bringing back Kirk would get the franchise much needed attention. Keeping that attention would be up to the creative team.


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Damn good trailer, but... | Report this post to moderator
By: SirTrekker (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:11:13 on Mar 27, 2004

Okay, before I make my point, I'd like to say that those responsible for making that trailer should get a round of e-applause. They did a fantastic job of creative editing and computer-generated graphic work, and I felt truly excited watching that...but not because I believe that their idea, bringing back Kirk, will save Star Trek. Sorry, folks...ain't gonna happen. Relying on a character of times past to reinvigorate it would prove more than ever that the creative talent behind the franchise is bereft of original ideas. James T. Kirk may be an example of Star Trek's essence, the spirit of adventure and risk-taking that we saw in the original series and the first 6 movies...but his time, and that of his crew, has long passed.

Don't get me wrong; I grew up with the original crew's adventures, and treasure them deep in my heart, but I'm also strong-willed enough to know when to let them go and allow a future generation to carry the torch. While TNG, DS9, and Voyager, as well as the TNG movies, may not have met the same standards fans of the Kirk Era may expect, they stand strongly on their own merits, and will forever remain a vital part of the Trek franchise, proving themselves more than worthy of following in Kirk's bold footsteps.

Bringing Kirk back is not the solution, folks, as cool as that trailer made the concept look. It's time to take care of those currently responsible of keeping Star Trek alive, and strongly encouraging those in power at Paramount to make sure they provide us with characters and stories that inspire us 30 years from now, as much as Kirk's legend does now.


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  • RE: Damn good trailer, but... | Report this post to moderator
    By: Scorpius (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:31:56 on Mar 28, 2004

    I don't recall anything in the interview saying that it will save Star Trek, but that it would give it a boost.

    You'll never get any group of fans to agree on anything that will save it.

    But this isn't about saving Trek. It's about giving Kirk a classy send off. Whether that, as a by-product, saves Star Trek is another matter. But I can see the ratings, at least for that event, shoot up.

    --------

    "Men don't use sex to get what they want. Sex IS what they want" - Frasier


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  • RE: Damn good trailer, but... | Report this post to moderator
    By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:08:02 on Mar 27, 2004

    Thing is though, Trek does need Kirk. Bringing in Kirk does not affect the other shows and their ability to stand on their own merits. It's ONE universe, and Kirk is a big part of it. A large sect of Trek fandom has been ignored for far too long, and a brilliant resource like William Shatner is not being used. That's ridiculous. Captain Kirk's return would put butts in the seats or behind the TV. Bring back Kirk.


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RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:47:17 on Mar 26, 2004 | Edit History (1)

n/m


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Screen captures | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:49:49 on Mar 23, 2004

For those with slow dial-up connections or other download limitations, here's a link to screen captures from the good quality trailer...

Bring Back Kirk: Trailer 2 (clickable thumbnails)


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  • RE: Screen captures | Report this post to moderator
    By: Brian Langlois (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:30:24 on Mar 25, 2004

    This was a great trailer. Very impressive and professional. Paramount, you should listen to these guys. Bring Back Kirk and do it immediately. I wish the best of luck to the guys on this campaign. Thanks.


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It Gave Me Chills! | Report this post to moderator
By: Gamera (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:10:40 on Mar 23, 2004

Okay, I know there are posters lurking here that exist only for the sad thrill it gives their lacking lives to make fun of "fanboys" and old-school Trekfans. No matter what we say positive about the original Trek and any attempts to bring back Kirk, they will shoot it down, as if their being new to ST fandom somehow makes them superior. Big laugh!

So that being said, I will gladly risk their misplaced disdain and say, out of all the kicks the trailer gave me as far as crew team-ups and ship battles, the one single moment that stands out above it all, the one that made my hackles rise and gave the cold chills was this: Spock approaches Kirk in the Nexus. Kirk turns. Sees Spock as he says, "Jim." and Kirk wonderously exclaims, "Spock!"

That did it for me. I don't JUST want Kirk to return. Both Shatner AND Nimoy must be together or it just won't work as well. They are a team, and the only real thrill in any movie will be when we see them together again.

It may not, and probably will not, ever happen onscreen. But fiction such as this trailer can make it happen in our imaginations, and in efforts such as the "Return" books by Shatner/Garfield-Reeves.

I say, the effect I felt (and others I suspect) watching this speculative trailer shows that all of the appeal of the original Trek boils down to this: Kirk and Spock. Not to ignore the contributions by all the others, but to say that if we are to see a Return, it must be by both. Just my own feelings about it. Thanks to the fans that did this work, just for that one moment of joy. You made it real for a moment!

-Gamera


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  • RE: It Gave Me Chills! | Report this post to moderator
    By: lnformed (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:32:38 on Mar 23, 2004

    Agreed 100%. It's a wonderful moment!

    You think the snot-nosed brats are bad HERE? You should look at TrekBBS, where the shitheaded Bermanites are doing a veritable circle-jerk of criticism in a desperate (and totally failed) attempt to counterbalance the enthusiasm of the trailer.

    The Berman ilk are just so PAINFULLY transparent in their motivations.

    The crossover material was trying to be kind to the Berman Trekkers. When instead it should have featured all of the Berman characters getting decapitated. The response from the Bermanites would have been about the same in either case. lol

    So many Bermanites, so few snipers...


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    • RE: It Gave Me Chills! | Report this post to moderator
      By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:57:38 on Mar 23, 2004

      Interestingly enough, I've found a surprising LACK of venom on the TrekBBS. I was expecting a major backlash, despite the high quality of the work. But the response has been overall, EXTREMELY positive. You know something is amazing when even Bermanites are praising it.


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RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
By: Hbasm (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:58:51 on Mar 23, 2004 | Edit History (1)

At least the meshes & textures to all those ships are freely available on the net.

(Woops, the thread was lost. I replied to the post by "Informed" down on this page.)


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woohoo | Report this post to moderator
By: kennyg (Odo's file, contact) @ 03:07:15 on Mar 23, 2004

A thrilling ride through the worlds of star trek! This trailer is sweet...and it accomplishes what it sets out to do.

The possibilties are endless....

The high rez version is awesome! i ran it full screen and it just looks incredible on my 1152x864 screen. I think I'll go watch it again.


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  • RE: woohoo | Report this post to moderator
    By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 06:17:42 on Mar 23, 2004

    Quote:

    The high rez version is awesome! i ran it full screen and it just looks incredible on my 1152x864 screen. I think I'll go watch it again.

    Yeah, I finally downloaded that version last night and ran it at 640 x 480, but just now ran it full screen at 1280 x 1024 on my 17" flat panel. w00t!! Image

    --------

    "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
    ----
    "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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    • RE: woohoo | Report this post to moderator
      By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:55:20 on Mar 23, 2004

      A movie like that would be good.

      I have already seen a bunch of the "Anti-Shatner" comments already (ie Noraa). They are nit picking it because they just can't admit that it was pretty good from a fan perspective. Far better than that garbage that Berman has given us over the last 10 years.


      You can always tell how old some of these so called "Trek Fans" are when they say "I never understood the appeal of Kirk". Welcome to the 15 years and under crowd!



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      • RE: woohoo | Report this post to moderator
        By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:55:26 on Mar 23, 2004

        Damn! When I ran it full screen at home this morning with the sound rolling through my home theater, and found myself getting goose bumps and it took my breath away - and this was just a 9 minute production... it really underscored the difference between that and ENT. I mean even to have a "space battle" feel EPIC and not "war" for "war's sake" or special effects just to have cool special effects.

        Kudos to those guys for giving an "epic" feel to a cross-series idea. Image

        --------

        "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
        ----
        "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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These guys get it | Report this post to moderator
By: Machiavelli (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:33:20 on Mar 22, 2004 | Edit History (1)

I watched this trailer and was excited. I haven't felt this way about Star Trek since Khan and UDC.

How come these guys get it and the producers of Generations, Resurrection, and Nemesis seem to have no idea what Star Trek is supposed to be about?

At the end of this trailer, I wanted to stand up and cheer.

I say, go for it!


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  • RE: These guys get it | Report this post to moderator
    By: Darth Cribbins (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:57:21 on Mar 22, 2004

    Kudos to the guys for the hard work they've put in and the dedication. Sorry to say but I watched it and cringed. It just seemed like one big fanboy's wet dream. This would never work on the big screen because there's too much information/characters/backstory etc and above all too unbelievable.

    --------

    Wikipedia: Making geeks seem intelligent since 2001!


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    • RE: These guys get it | Report this post to moderator
      By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:52:47 on Mar 22, 2004

      The thing is though, that's not the point. It's just to show possibilities. It is not the specific story that matters here. Kirk blends in perfectly. It was a GREAT effort, a great job, and not to be treated as a real movie. A real Kirk return story wouldn't be this ambitious.


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Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
By: Hbasm (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:15:32 on Mar 22, 2004

The only thing they are going to accomplish with this is getting sued for copyright infringement.

However, it's nice to see someone who still wants Star Trek to continue; someone who cares! Even if this was put together by only 3 people. (The computer graphics (namely the ships) was surely borrowed from various places, but still lots of work has obviously been put into this promo)

I never really understood the appeal of Kirk, but... an old hero from peoples childhood never dies, I suppose.


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  • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
    By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:51:38 on Mar 23, 2004

    What a sad response! You just can't admit that it was a pretty good effort. Far better excitement that has been seen in Trek in over 10 years. Very petty response by you!


    Quote:"I never really understood the appeal of Kirk, "

    That is because you have to be a fan of Star Trek that is over 15 years old.



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    • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
      By: dewleaf (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:25:47 on Mar 24, 2004

      I adore William (Captain James T. Kirk) Shatner and I'd be thrilled to see him bring his character back one way or the other. It is indeed sad that the fans under the age of 19 don't understand the appeal of Mr. Shatner.


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      • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
        By: Hbasm (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:18:31 on Mar 25, 2004

        For your information, I'm wether 15 or 19. I'm 27.


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        • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
          By: dewleaf (Odo's file, contact) @ 01:19:40 on Mar 26, 2004

          I wasn't talking about you, I was just agreeing with Scorned that alot of really young fans don't seem to have a fondness for Captain Kirk as the fans that remember growing up watching the Star Trek movies and the original series do. No offense was intended. Also I agree with you that not all ST fans over 30 are Kirk/Shatner fans.


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      • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
        By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:38:07 on Mar 25, 2004

        I think it has to do with generation rather than age. You'd have to be a bit younger when you see Kirk to appreciate him the most, I would think. But all the fans who came out of TNG no matter what age will probably never understand Kirk.


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        • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
          By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:44:41 on Mar 25, 2004

          I don't know how true that is. It's all a matter of exposure. Kirk is a great character. Vibrant--lively--fun--heroic. It's just a matter of proper exposure.


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          • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
            By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:19:21 on Mar 25, 2004

            But all those qualities are often mistaken for overacting and for the corniness of the original series. So people who didn't grow up back then or at least didn't grow up with Kirk probably would not "get" him as easily. Just speculation on my part.


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            • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
              By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:22:48 on Mar 25, 2004

              Kirk is an admired, classic character. The whole TOS crew is like that. He has a broad appeal. He is not campy by any means. He is a classic heroic character. He is interesting and passionate. And most important, he sells.


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              • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:02:07 on Mar 25, 2004

                Yes, but that's irrelevant to what I'm saying.

                How many young people today do you know who like William Shatner?


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                • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                  By: dewleaf (Odo's file, contact) @ 01:21:27 on Mar 26, 2004

                  I can think of one young person who likes William Shatner off the top of my head-TheeBlueWolf. He's only 24 or 25 and he's a BIG fan of Captain Kirk.


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                  • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                    By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:30:08 on Mar 26, 2004

                    Maybe I should rephrase...

                    How many young people who did not grow up with TOS do you know who like William Shatner?

                    I don't think that anybody can deny that less and less people are growing up with TOS.


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                    • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                      By: Scorpius (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:23:33 on Mar 26, 2004

                      Star Trek the original series, along with Baywatch is shown and translated around the world. The statistic goes that every hour the original series is shown somewhere in the world.

                      Your question doesn't work. The Star Trek fan base all know who Kirk is. William Shatner's novel The Return, is the best selling Star Trek fiction book of all time -- which came out at a time that ratings for the franchise started to decline and have slumped ever since.

                      The popularity of Kirk is not in question. Your argument is.

                      --------

                      "Men don't use sex to get what they want. Sex IS what they want" - Frasier


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                      • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                        By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:50:05 on Mar 26, 2004

                        Quote:
                        Star Trek the original series, along with Baywatch is shown and translated around the world. The statistic goes that every hour the original series is shown somewhere in the world.

                        Source?

                        Quote:
                        Your question doesn't work. The Star Trek fan base all know who Kirk is. William Shatner's novel The Return, is the best selling Star Trek fiction book of all time -- which came out at a time that ratings for the franchise started to decline and have slumped ever since.

                        Among Star Trek fans he's popular, yes. But there are less and less Star Trek fans these days. And while there may be many middle aged people these days who like Kirk, that doesn't address my point.

                        Quote:
                        The popularity of Kirk is not in question. Your argument is.

                        Well yes, it would have to be either one or the other, wouldn't it?


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                        • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                          By: Scorpius (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:08:11 on Mar 26, 2004 | Edit History (1)

                          Source, George Takei's pre-episode commentary Star Trek 30th anniversary video rerelease.

                          The number of Star Trek fans has not decreased these days. Just those tuning in. And the ones tuning out arguably don't like Star Trek as much as they used to.

                          Fans came back when Deep Space Nine did the tribute episode with Kirk Spock etc in it. No episode has hit that 7.7 rating since, not even the premiere of Enterprise.

                          Meanwhile Shatner is still enduring success with his Captain Kirk novels. The sales of which have been so great to reach the New York Times best seller lists, that after his first trilogy, they commisioned another. It is now into its third trilogy.

                          What is your prejudice toward the Kirk character?

                          --------

                          "Men don't use sex to get what they want. Sex IS what they want" - Frasier


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                          • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                            By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:26:13 on Mar 26, 2004

                            Quote:
                            Source, George Takei's pre-episode commentary Star Trek 30th anniversary video rerelease.

                            Ah, so you mean eight years ago? I don't know about Star Trek around the world, but I am talking from personal experience.

                            Quote:
                            The number of Star Trek fans has not decreased these days. Just those tuning in. And the ones tuning out arguably don't like Star Trek as much as they used to.

                            Fans came back when Deep Space Nine did the tribute episode with Kirk Spock etc in it. No episode has hit that 7.7 rating since, not even the premiere of Enterprise.

                            You're arguing something different here. You are giving evidence that supports that Star Trek is still popular. I'm not saying whether it's popular or not, I'm talking about TOS attracting young viewers.

                            [q]Meanwhile Shatner is still enduring success with his Captain Kirk novels. The sales of which have been so great to reach the New York Times best seller lists, that after his first trilogy, they commisioned another. It is now into its third trilogy.

                            This is completely irrelevant.

                            Quote:
                            What is your prejudice toward the Kirk character?

                            Huh? Since when do I have a prejudice against Captain Kirk? Look at what I was originally arguing because you don't seem to understand anything I've said.


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                    • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                      By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:10:49 on Mar 26, 2004

                      Quote:

                      I don't think that anybody can deny that less and less people are growing up with TOS.

                      Sure you can deny it. As long as there's not only local affiliates but now cable affiliates who continue to show TOS and as long as all but one of the primary cast are still alive and making appearances, the show is still in the mind set.

                      I think we might get an idea come next year when the TOS box sets come out, because I think since there are only 3 seasons, the cost to own the whole thing will be notably less than the cost to own the entirety of the other live-action series. Thus something that many may consider purchasing, being that it is the original and all. ;-)

                      --------

                      "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
                      ----
                      "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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                      • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                        By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:52:23 on Mar 26, 2004

                        Quote:
                        Sure you can deny it.

                        My mistake. Everyone has that right :-).

                        Quote:
                        As long as there's not only local affiliates but now cable affiliates who continue to show TOS and as long as all but one of the primary cast are still alive and making appearances, the show is still in the mind set.

                        Among already established fans, yes.

                        Quote:
                        I think we might get an idea come next year when the TOS box sets come out, because I think since there are only 3 seasons, the cost to own the whole thing will be notably less than the cost to own the entirety of the other live-action series. Thus something that many may consider purchasing, being that it is the original and all. ;-)

                        But even if the sales of the TOS season sets do well (and I'm not denying that they will), it won't prove anything about who the fans are.


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                        • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                          By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:20:21 on Mar 27, 2004

                          Quote:
                          Quote:Sure you can deny it.

                          My mistake. Everyone has that right :-).

                          LOL

                          Quote:

                          Quote:As long as there's not only local affiliates but now cable affiliates who continue to show TOS and as long as all but one of the primary cast are still alive and making appearances, the show is still in the mind set.

                          Among already established fans, yes.

                          No, not just among "already established fans". Among much of the populace as well. I think I've mentioned this before but I have had TOS calendars up in my office before I started with the ENT ones and the reactions were quite clear. With ENT, VOY, & DS9 (I still have a DS9 cast photo hanging up), I get the questions regarding who these folks are. Just the passage of time, alot of re-airings, the films, the anniversary specials... and now Shatner doing Priceline commercials over the past couple years - all keeping TOS in the mindset.

                          Quote:

                          But even if the sales of the TOS season sets do well (and I'm not denying that they will), it won't prove anything about who the fans are.

                          No but there are still many who have either never seen TOS or only saw some eps and if they are introduced to Trek through the later series, this would be an opportunity to enjoy the "original".

                          --------

                          "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
                          ----
                          "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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                          • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                            By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:01:19 on Mar 27, 2004

                            Quote:
                            No, not just among "already established fans". Among much of the populace as well. I think I've mentioned this before but I have had TOS calendars up in my office before I started with the ENT ones and the reactions were quite clear. With ENT, VOY, & DS9 (I still have a DS9 cast photo hanging up), I get the questions regarding who these folks are. Just the passage of time, alot of re-airings, the films, the anniversary specials... and now Shatner doing Priceline commercials over the past couple years - all keeping TOS in the mindset.

                            Alright, depending on what you mean by "in the mindset" then I suppose so. But that is a very different thing than saying that young people are being attracted.

                            Quote:
                            No but there are still many who have either never seen TOS or only saw some eps and if they are introduced to Trek through the later series, this would be an opportunity to enjoy the "original".

                            I'm not so certain of that. As you said yourself, Star Trek is not currently attracting a whole lot of new viewers. And out of those few who became fans of Voyager (and I think it actually didn't do so badly with younger non-Trek fans) and even Enterprise (I'd be suprised if there are more than about 5 of them), I don't think very many of them became true fans of Star Trek. If they actually were interested in Star Trek in general, then these fans would be a bit younger and not open to something like TOS, which seems incredibly dated.


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                            • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                              By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:24:02 on Mar 28, 2004

                              Quote:

                              Alright, depending on what you mean by "in the mindset" then I suppose so.

                              The "cultural" phenomena of it. The terminology, "Beam me up", "Tribbles", "Pointed ears".

                              Quote:

                              But that is a very different thing than saying that young people are being attracted.

                              No, what I mean is that any "younger people" who happened to turn on Spike TV and watch TNG or soon DS9 (and especially the latter show which seems more "real" to the young folks of today), might get curious enough to go back and watch TOS and even see an ep like TOS "Balance of Terror" and see what was so cool about it regarding its "feel" and how it seems to match some of the "modern" Clancy stuff, yet preceeded it by several decades.

                              Quote:

                              I'm not so certain of that. As you said yourself, Star Trek is not currently attracting a whole lot of new viewers.

                              Perhaps not the current show but certainly how many 30-some year old fans got into Trek from the reruns of TOS, younger ones can get into it from the reruns of a TNG or DS9 or even VOY. Star Trek has ALWAYS had a better viewership in syndicated repeat.

                              Quote:

                              And out of those few who became fans of Voyager (and I think it actually didn't do so badly with younger non-Trek fans) and even Enterprise (I'd be suprised if there are more than about 5 of them), I don't think very many of them became true fans of Star Trek.

                              I think it might come. It takes time. ;-) Especially once DS9 hits the airwaves in a more consistent fashion. Certainly DS9 has NOT aired in my market very consistently if at all until recently (and then only in graveyard timeslots).

                              Quote:

                              If they actually were interested in Star Trek in general, then these fans would be a bit younger and not open to something like TOS, which seems incredibly dated.

                              Certainly films like "The Wizard of Oz", etc., done in 1939 or some of the '60s animated specials of "Charlie Brown" or "The Grinch" might be considered "dated", yet they have enjoyed popularity over the past 4 - 6 decades respectively, with generation after generation "discovering" them and enjoying them. ;-)

                              --------

                              "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
                              ----
                              "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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                              • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                                By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:27:24 on Mar 28, 2004

                                Quote:
                                No, what I mean is that any "younger people" who happened to turn on Spike TV and watch TNG or soon DS9 (and especially the latter show which seems more "real" to the young folks of today), might get curious enough to go back and watch TOS and even see an ep like TOS "Balance of Terror" and see what was so cool about it regarding its "feel" and how it seems to match some of the "modern" Clancy stuff, yet preceeded it by several decades.

                                If they got really into it, then I suppose so. But I don't know what kind of people watch SpikeTV...Do you by any chance happen to know who's tuning in? And I think that younger people would have to be very into it in order to give TOS a chance. And if these are people coming from DS9, I think TOS would seem very unappealing.

                                Quote:
                                Certainly films like "The Wizard of Oz", etc., done in 1939 or some of the '60s animated specials of "Charlie Brown" or "The Grinch" might be considered "dated", yet they have enjoyed popularity over the past 4 - 6 decades respectively, with generation after generation "discovering" them and enjoying them. ;-)

                                I don't think these are great comparisons...Besides the fact that two of them are cartoons, think of what age group they attract.


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                                • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                                  By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:48:26 on Mar 28, 2004

                                  Quote:

                                  If they got really into it, then I suppose so. But I don't know what kind of people watch SpikeTV...Do you by any chance happen to know who's tuning in?

                                  This renamed cable station has revamped itself to essentially be the "male version" of the women-focussed "Lifetime". ;-) And thus programming geared for the usual 18 - 34 male demographic is its focus - which also includes sports-related and men's health programming, etc.

                                  Quote:

                                  And I think that younger people would have to be very into it in order to give TOS a chance. And if these are people coming from DS9, I think TOS would seem very unappealing.

                                  Not necessarily, especially when you have something like DS9 "Trials and Tribble-ations" that ends up adding an "extra" backstory to the original TOS "The Troubles With Tribbles". ;-)

                                  Quote:

                                  I don't think these are great comparisons...Besides the fact that two of them are cartoons, think of what age group they attract.

                                  These films and shows were made for the GENERAL viewing audience. Something that is now lost on the "modern" executives in the industry because those older films and specials have stories that touch on some of the themes that shows like TOS touched on. The point being that TOS never targeted itself to a certain "age demographic", yet it managed to attract a specific one when it first aired anyway, and they didn't even realize this until it was off the air. And strangely enough, the "myth" of Kirk being some sort of lady's man and supposedly screwing anything that is female and whatnot, seems to be appealing to young males no matter how untrue this is. ;-)

                                  --------

                                  "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
                                  ----
                                  "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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                                  • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                                    By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:13:49 on Mar 28, 2004

                                    Quote:
                                    This renamed cable station has revamped itself to essentially be the "male version" of the women-focussed "Lifetime". ;-) And thus programming geared for the usual 18 - 34 male demographic is its focus - which also includes sports-related and men's health programming, etc.

                                    Yeah, I know who it's targeting, but how many teenaged people or younger actually watch it.

                                    Quote:
                                    Not necessarily, especially when you have something like DS9 "Trials and Tribble-ations" that ends up adding an "extra" backstory to the original TOS "The Troubles With Tribbles". ;-)

                                    Well, it seems that neither of us can offer more than speculation on this matter :-).


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                                    • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                                      By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:01:57 on Mar 28, 2004

                                      Quote:

                                      Yeah, I know who it's targeting, but how many teenaged people or younger actually watch it.

                                      Certainly a pretty good percentage considering Spike TV's WWE has been among the top-rated cable shows and WWE (and wrestling shows) tend to be the purview of the young testosterone-raging males, whose parents will plunk down $40 for a PPV Wrestling match in a minute. ;-)

                                      Quote:

                                      Well, it seems that neither of us can offer more than speculation on this matter :-).

                                      No YOU are just too lazy to look it up. ;-)

                                      --------

                                      "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
                                      ----
                                      "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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                                      • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                                        By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:36:48 on Mar 28, 2004

                                        Quote:
                                        Certainly a pretty good percentage considering Spike TV's WWE has been among the top-rated cable shows and WWE (and wrestling shows) tend to be the purview of the young testosterone-raging males, whose parents will plunk down $40 for a PPV Wrestling match in a minute. ;-)

                                        Look, I'm just not convinced that so many of the young testosterone-raging males are going to like TNG or DS9 when they see it, and I also doubt that these kind of people will become Trekkies who want to see TOS.

                                        Quote:
                                        No YOU are just too lazy to look it up. ;-)

                                        Yep :-D.


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                                        • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                                          By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:06:27 on Mar 28, 2004

                                          Quote:

                                          Look, I'm just not convinced that so many of the young testosterone-raging males are going to like TNG or DS9 when they see it, and I also doubt that these kind of people will become Trekkies who want to see TOS.

                                          Why not? Certainly that age group has been continually exposed to and has joined the fandom of Trek since the '60s. The fact that with this new marketing strategy of selling free TV show episodes in season DVD box sets, as well as the availability of episode downloads, certainly makes it easier for this high tech demographic to get access to ALL of Trek, including TOS, without them having to try to TiVO or record it as it runs during some graveyard timeslot. Ie., there's actually a deeper penetration of it.

                                          And again, there's that "macho" factor of TOS. ;-)

                                          Quote:

                                          Quote:No YOU are just too lazy to look it up. ;-)

                                          Yep :-D.

                                          LOL I got the 100th post in here by the way. Image

                                          --------

                                          "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
                                          ----
                                          "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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                                          • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                                            By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:15:29 on Mar 28, 2004

                                            Quote:
                                            Why not? Certainly that age group has been continually exposed to and has joined the fandom of Trek since the '60s.

                                            TV's changed a lot since the 60's.

                                            Quote:
                                            The fact that with this new marketing strategy of selling free TV show episodes in season DVD box sets

                                            Free??? Huh??? Damn, I must've wasted a whole lot of money on DS9 then...

                                            Seriously, I don't know what you're talking about...

                                            Quote:
                                            as well as the availability of episode downloads, certainly makes it easier for this high tech demographic to get access to ALL of Trek, including TOS, without them having to try to TiVO or record it as it runs during some graveyard timeslot. Ie., there's actually a deeper penetration of it.

                                            I simply don't think that a significant amount of younger people would be doing this, but I could be wrong. And in any case, I just remembered what my ogiginal statement was...So even if they downloaded a TOS episode I still don't think they'd like it too much.

                                            Quote:
                                            And again, there's that "macho" factor of TOS. ;-)

                                            Yep, we're all macho Trekkies here on Trekweb, LOL.

                                            Quote:
                                            LOL I got the 100th post in here by the way.

                                            Nice! LOL


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                                            • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
                                              By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:19:04 on Mar 28, 2004

                                              Quote:

                                              TV's changed a lot since the 60's.

                                              No actually it hasn't. There's less censorship for language, sexual content, and violence and there might be more commercials nowadays. But TV is TV is TV. Trust me on this. ;-)

                                              Quote:

                                              Free??? Huh??? Damn, I must've wasted a whole lot of money on DS9 then...

                                              Your loss, Paramount's gain no doubt. Image

                                              Quote:

                                              Seriously, I don't know what you're talking about...

                                              ::Looks over at $1 per tape VHS library with all of DS9 taped as it aired and shakes head::

                                              ;-)

                                              Quote:

                                              I simply don't think that a significant amount of younger people would be doing this, but I could be wrong.

                                              Why were there 3.5 million TOS-like "Star Trek New Voyages" episode 1 downloads in less than a month?

                                              Certainly polls done of the readership at this Trek fan site and others, have skewed younger, ie., 18 - 25.

                                              Quote:

                                              And in any case, I just remembered what my ogiginal statement was...So even if they downloaded a TOS episode I still don't think they'd like it too much.

                                              Are you just arguing for arguing's sake or what? Oh great TOS watcher! Image

                                              There's nothing that you have put here that supports your contentions.

                                              Quote:

                                              Quote:And again, there's that "macho" factor of TOS. ;-)

                                              Yep, we're all macho Trekkies here on Trekweb, LOL.

                                              Well except for those who shall remain nameless who post under various aliases and just won't go away...LOL

                                              --------

                                              "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
                                              ----
                                              "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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          • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
            By: Scorpius (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:18:08 on Mar 25, 2004

            A lot of people consider Kirk to be their hero. I have yet to meet anyone, old or young, who has said that Jean Luc Picard is a hero of theirs.

            --------

            "Men don't use sex to get what they want. Sex IS what they want" - Frasier


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  • RE: Very well done but... | Report this post to moderator
    By: lnformed (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:03:05 on Mar 23, 2004

    I spoke with the creators of the trailer. I can confirm to you that ALL of the CGI is original. None of the ships were taken from other places. They made everything themselves. From the meshes to the textures, it's ALL theirs!


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my god...it's full of stars! | Report this post to moderator
By: Grason (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:13:32 on Mar 22, 2004 | Edit History (2)

I've publicly scoffed at the idea of bringing back Kirk. A gimmick. The last gasp of a dying franchise. Voyager poisoned me, and Enterprise has stabbed me in the back.

Then, I watched this trailer.

Yes, its reach exceeds its grasp. Yes, there are substantial leaps of credibility, and (dare I say it) logic.

You know what?

Big effing deal. This thing rocked.

As someone else posted high above on this thread, the makers of this trailer GET IT. It's amazing, the subtleties in just 8.5 minutes, nuances that seem to escape the thoughts of the ENT writers. Most telling for me -- the activation of the "new" EMH. Instead of "Please state the nature of the medical emergency," it was, "I'm Doctor Leonard McCoy. Do you want my help?" That was Bones in a nutshell. And of all the samples of all the dialogue spoken by De Kelley through 79 episodes and six movies, they picked that one precious line, which spoke volumes.

I also agree with whoever suggested that this is the opportunity for Kirk (and Picard, and Sisko) to be Archer's mentor. This is the means whereby the convolutions of ENT can be set right. Is it a reset button? Of a sorts, yes. But done well, the reset button WORKS. "Yesterday's Enterprise" worked. "City on the Edge of Forever" worked. A project like this may not erase Enterprise, but it will certainly establish a better context.

Kudos to the design team from BringBackKirk.com. This is an outstanding piece of work.


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HIGH QUALITY VERSION | Report this post to moderator
By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:01:58 on Mar 22, 2004

http://downloads.gamezone.com/demos/d10840.htm

Check the above mirror site. It now seems to have both the 17MB AND the 99MB version. Enjoy.


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No doubting the quality of the promo but... | Report this post to moderator
By: Shano (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:50:42 on Mar 22, 2004

Kirk cannot save Trek. Let's face reality TOS crew are of that certain age now. They could only appear in CGI and how do the compensate for Mccoy? Do the use an impersonator? Is that really what trek needs is to rely on other actors voices?

Briliant promo, very well produced and realised but the basic premise if flawed and would only push Trek further from the mainstream public.


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  • RE: No doubting the quality of the promo but... | Report this post to moderator
    By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:56:40 on Mar 22, 2004

    On the contrary--Kirk IS mainstream. Kirk and Spock are a part of our culture. The other shows are not. Remember, this was just a demonstration--obviously the real deal couldn't have McCoy or Scotty.

    Nothing they could do would get mainstream attention like Shatner returning as Kirk. Nothing.

    A lot of people bring up this point--John Glenn was shot up on the space shuttle for REAL at an age older than Shatner.

    As long as the story doesn't have Kirk doing the flying dropkick, doublefisted punch, or sleep with T'Pol, they'll be fine.

    Kirk alone cannot save Trek. But Kirk returning is the start.


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    • RE: No doubting the quality of the promo but... | Report this post to moderator
      By: Shano (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:05:18 on Mar 22, 2004

      I think the opposite would happen. I feel the general public would think this was a desperate stunt to gain attention to a dying franchise, leaving only die hard fans watching the show and going to the cinema.
      Sounds like Enterprise and Nemesis to me.

      As much as Trek has been a big part of my life for many years, the time has come to let it rest. Instead of resurecting old heros over and over, new heroes should be made.

      It's unfortunate that Paramount in it's current format are not able to do so.


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      • RE: No doubting the quality of the promo but... | Report this post to moderator
        By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:55:56 on Mar 23, 2004

        Look at the overwhelmingly positive reaction this trailer is getting. Fans are talking. Fans are excited. And if done for real, fans would tune in. It's not desperation to use a character that so many fans want to see return.


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        • RE: No doubting the quality of the promo but... | Report this post to moderator
          By: Shano (Odo's file, contact) @ 03:51:16 on Mar 24, 2004

          but that is my point. it's only going to be the kirk fans that are going to want this. It's not going to bring back joe public to Trek or invigorate the series, merely satisfy a vocal section of die hard fans who already support the franchise.


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          • RE: No doubting the quality of the promo but... | Report this post to moderator
            By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 06:23:19 on Mar 24, 2004

            No, it's not going to just be "Kirk fans". Most of the general populace KNOWS William Shatner, and his latest spate of not only Priceline ads, but Priceline ads WITH Nimoy AND his appearances on network shows like "The Practice", has put his face back out there again.

            For at least the past 10 years, I have put up Trek calenders in my office. Some were TOS, some were TNG, some were DS9, some were VOY, and over the past 3 years, I have put up an ENT calendar. When people ask me about the calender, I tell them that it is from "Enterprise" Trek series 5, and tell them "Yes, a Star Trek is still on the air", and it's like a blank. But when I had my TOS up, REACTION. "Oh... Kirk. Yeah! Sulu" blah blah. Most recognized the TNG one but may have forgotten all the character's names - although they do remember "Picard" and "Data". DS9 was totally lost on them and everything after that including VOY.

            It's recognition factor among the masses and Shatner is IT. If anything, he could be the best commercial for ENT. Just the Kirk voice-over narration talking about going back to contact someone involved in the "early days of the Federation" was enough to legitimize ENT IMHO.

            --------

            "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
            ----
            "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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            • RE: No doubting the quality of the promo but... | Report this post to moderator
              By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:14:01 on Mar 24, 2004

              I don't know how many downloads they have, but just on bittorrent, there are 500 downloads. Look at www.filerush.com

              And BitTorrent, while mentioned on the site, is not a mirror site. It's people sharing the trailer to others.


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              • RE: No doubting the quality of the promo but... | Report this post to moderator
                By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:22:06 on Mar 24, 2004

                Oh I'm sure it's just now taking off. I just checked the "New Voyages" site and since the release of their first bottle episode, they have had over 3.5 million downloads since JANUARY and up to the day of their last update message in February. So that was just in 1 month's time.

                So this one is only just beginning. ;-)

                --------

                "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
                ----
                "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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Keep Kirk Killed | Report this post to moderator
By: Bucky (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:47:33 on Mar 22, 2004

I like the idea of the character being dead. It completes his life cycle in Trek, since he's dead and all. Like its 99% certain we're never going to see Picard again on the big screen - I don't dig that, I think its too open ended. I like the idea of Kirk's cycle in Trek being complete.

--------

An elephant never forgets . . .TO KILL!


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Holy shit!!!!!! BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!! STXI:The Return! | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:59:21 on Mar 22, 2004

What can I say except that Jason Turner, Jay B. and Will Jaspers and TRUE Star Trek fans. They truely get it! The amount of work that went into that little promo was incredible. Hats off!! After reading the interview and watching their trailer I can only say "WOW". They said that Paramount will only back a "money maker" and lets face it. This idea of the return of Kirk (regardless if you use their idea of Shatners book) is IT! A 3 movie arc would be a fans "dream"!

Can you say "3 movie arc"??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHY is it that 3 fans with no big budget and special effects etc pull something off that is so "TREK" and Berman can't do anything?


It is VERY clear that Shatner and Nimoy want to do this. WHY you ask? Some of the "voices" are NOT from any known series or movie clips.



Some journeys were NEVER ment to end!

Legends NEVER die!



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  • RE: Holy shit!!!!!! BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!! STXI:The Return! | Report this post to moderator
    By: JSTOTT1701 (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:41:45 on Mar 22, 2004

    OH MY GOD!!! That was the F***** coolest thing I have ever seen!!! Somebody HAS to get this the suits at Paramount!!!!


    --------

    "Suspension is not necessary. A good beating will suffice." Mystic__FlameX on Klingonharder



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    • RE: Holy shit!!!!!! BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!! STXI:The Return! | Report this post to moderator
      By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:51:29 on Mar 22, 2004

      They need to send that clip to Shatner, Nimoy, Meyer and Bennett!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      FORGET BERMAN! Kick Berman in the ass and send him packing to do his stupid "Big Blue Marble". It is VERY sad to see that Trek has fallen SO badly these past years. Then you see 3 fans who come by and nail it on the head. Berman and his pathetic writing circle can't come up with anything.



      A THREE (3) movie arc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      DO IT..

      Just DO IT!




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if paramount had a brain.... | Report this post to moderator
By: sky (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:15:16 on Mar 22, 2004

If anyone at Paramount had a brain, they'd recruit these guys and all the other fanboy producers and give them a small budget to produce these sorts of things. How bout a total CGI "New Adventures of Kirk"? You know that this sort of thing is coming. You could pay Shatner a license for his face and digitally create the rest.

This oughta be a no-brainer for those nitwits at the studio -- get the fans working cheap for them, and sell the product to other fans via "straight to video" and stick a wide margin in their pockets. I know I as a fan would support such efforts. Sounds like a win/win/win for everyone. For that reason alone, it'll never happen!

--------

"When I was your age, I didn't watch television! I LIVED! So... move out of your parent's basements!" -- William Shatner on SNL, 1986


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  • RE: if paramount had a brain.... | Report this post to moderator
    By: BWilliams (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 13:05:32 on Mar 22, 2004

    Unfortunately, Paramount doesn't get it. It's like the line in "A Christmas Story": "No more turkey dinners, turkey sandwiches, turkey salad, turkey hash, turkey a la king, or gallons of turkey soup!"

    Everyone knows what we want to see more than anything. If Paramount doesn't wake up and take notice of this project, nothing will.


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Ridiculous | Report this post to moderator
By: GreginWA (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 11:50:15 on Mar 22, 2004

So, what's it about?

They've included everything under the Sun from the Star Trek universe with the exception of the most important element: a story. Bring back Kirk from the dead doesn't have to be complicated. It doesn't have to be some intergalactic extravaganza spanning 3 centuries of future-history. The story needs to be simple. It needs to be enjoyable. Watching things blow up is not exciting, its eye candy. Having McCoy brought in (and De Kelley "resurrected") as an EMH is just a gimmick. In a story there needs to be purpose. You can't just have all of these great ideas and gell them together into a movie. It doesn't work like that. The story needs to be about the people, not the events. This is why I've said many times before that any attempt to bring back Kirk from the dead would have to be done by Spock. This is one element that the creators of this trailer got right. Of course I understand that including Sisko's return, Archer, DS9, and everything else was just done to show what's possible, but this trailer is easily viewed as some fanboys' attempts at doing something cool instead of telling a character-rich story.
What the creators of this trailer made will simply never happen. It goes far beyond being too much. Bring back Kirk, but only if there's a character that has a reason to. Make the story simple and identifiable. Of course, I'm partial to my story of Spock bring back Kirk simply because of the fact that their friendship transcends logic and reasoning. Kirk saved Spock, now its Spock's turn to save Kirk...and he'd go far beyond breaking a few regulations to do so. But, that's a different story. :)


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  • RE: Ridiculous | Report this post to moderator
    By: luckybucky (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:57:26 on Mar 22, 2004

    Yeah, I had similar conceptual concerns but still enjoyed it anyway. It worked for me as a trailer. The actual film would need some significant development.

    What I especially liked was that it legitimized ENT. It didn't take the "ENT is crap" party line, but looked for a way to bridge it to the other shows. That felt nice. It actually tried to solve the problem that ENT-detractors have, not by doing away with the show but by effectively tying it in.

    --------

    "Aha! Advancing on me only brings you closer to the cold wrath that is my spork!" - Bucky the Katt


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    • RE: Ridiculous | Report this post to moderator
      By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:05:24 on Mar 22, 2004

      How exactly did it effectively tie in Enterprise? By simply making the characters aware of its existence? The continuity vioations in Enterprise supposedly still exist.

      Seeing Kirk and Archer together made me want to vomit. :-)


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      • RE: Ridiculous | Report this post to moderator
        By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:45:47 on Mar 22, 2004

        Quote:
        How exactly did it effectively tie in Enterprise? By simply making the characters aware of its existence? The continuity vioations in Enterprise supposedly still exist.

        Seeing Kirk and Archer together made me want to vomit. :-)

        Actually what it did was to give a sense of Kirk showing Archer how to BE in command - just in the symbollism of it, because Kirk was shown as being "in command" of all of these forces. It was the "presence" that we were talking about earlier.

        See, GEN was supposed to be the tie-in between the 23rd and 24th centuries. But all Kirk did was help Picard beat up on Soran and then he paid the price of a Wiley E. Coyote without the "poof" at the bottom of the canyon.

        But since Archer has been so indecisive of late (as we have agreed), then this could actually have a much more interesting interaction occur between Archer and Kirk as opposed to what was shown between Picard and Kirk. Kirk would look at Archer as someone needing mentoring. Whereas Kirk and Picard weren't that far off in age and experience (except they were from different time frames).

        Ie., at that point, Kirk was a 30-some year veteran of Star Fleet and so was Picard. They were PEERS.

        Here, Kirk and Archer are NOT peers.

        --------

        "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
        ----
        "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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  • Even more ridiculous | Report this post to moderator
    By: GreginWA (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 12:47:21 on Mar 22, 2004

    Here's someone's idea of an intelligent reply to my critique:

    "It's a fan trailer, faggot. Not a goddamn novel.
    But leave it to a pillow-biter to try to nickpick
    something positive."

    Thanks for the email, Fandom11@aol.com. Its been a while since I felt like I was in a middle school classroom.


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  • RE: Ridiculous | Report this post to moderator
    By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:16:05 on Mar 22, 2004

    I seemed to catch a very good story. I don't know how you missed it. Basically, here's the story:

    Spock visits Kirk's grave and his connection to Kirk causes him to believe that Kirk is really alive and still in the nexus.

    So he asks Starfleet for help, and Admiral Janeway supports the venture, wishing him luck. The Enterprise A is refitted with 24th century technology under the supervision of Picard and Scotty. So Spock goes into the nexus, finds Kirk, and Kirk returns to where he belongs.

    Shortly after, Future Guy decides to make the 24th century a battleground in the Temporal Cold War. He sends a Suliban to attack Earth and Vulcan simultaneously.

    The attack is devastating, but not total. Doing some research, Spock uncovers a captain that knows quite a bit about the Suliban and has knowledge from even the 31st century--Jonathan Archer. So they go get him to help them in the counterattack.

    Massive battle occurs, featuring characters from all over the Trek universe.

    Good guys win. Yay!

    Keep in mind that the Bring Back Kirk campaign didn't exactly have the actors filming for them. Keep in mind that this was a 9 minute film, not a 2 hour movie.

    This effort was inspiring, and accomplished the true mission of showing that anything is possible. The excitement of basically every post on this board shows that.


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    • Didn't answer my question | Report this post to moderator
      By: GreginWA (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 12:35:43 on Mar 22, 2004

      Again, so what's the story about?

      Where's the character growth? Where's the drama? Where's the fun and excitement? These are all just events and happenings. Big-named actors, special effects, settings, pop culture icons are all great gimmicks to help a story but there still is no story here. Who's the story about? Why should we, as audience members, care?
      I will agree that anything IS possible, especially when telling a story in the Star Trek universe. However, because things look cool and the good guys win isn't enough of a reason to tell a story. Just because fans want Kirk brought back from the dead isn't a good enough reason to do it. Just because fans like explosions isn't a good enough reason to blow up Spacedock and Vulcan statues. A good story needs reason and purpose. It needs to tell the audience something. Star Trek's best stories were never about space battles and resurrecting dead characters. "The Wrath of Khan" was never about a cat and mouse game. It was about a man's undying vengence. It was about two friends that were so close that one man would give all he had to save the lives of the other. "Search For Spock" was not about Kirk fighting Klingons and blowing up he Enterprise. It was about a man and his friends throwing away everything they had on the off-chance that they could rescue their friend. "The Voyager Home" wasn't about whales. It was about the need to understand that decisions today can have very drastic consequences tomorrow.
      I certainly understand that the tools used in creating this trailer created barriers that are impossible to overcome. This trailer is still a representation of ideas, and those ideas have to provide the audience with far more than being a visualization of gimmicks.


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      • RE: Didn't answer my question | Report this post to moderator
        By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:27:27 on Mar 22, 2004

        Quote:
        Again, so what's the story about?

        I think that was described below. Several stories. Suliban attack Earth and Vulcan (and it looked like that was Space Dock that got blown up?). Spock brings Kirk out of the Nexus and both go back and grab Archer. The thing essentially brings ENT's Temporal Cold War into ENT's "future".

        See ENT has been functioning totally outside of the rest of the Trek universe, no matter how many times they keep insisting it IS in that universe. Just the little cobbled together blip of dialog for Archer communicating with Kirk (and this is sortof ironic because Bakula has been going around in interviews and chats saying that he has never met Shatner and "everybody else" that he knows HAS...lol), just sent sparks through my brain that WOULD connect ENT with the rest of Trek. And actually moreso then when Kirk interacted with Picard in GEN. And THAT is because what was shown in this short, was a more REALISTIC interaction that had more meaning, with Kirk coming into this story from the position of "command" rather than from a position of "retirement" and idly chopping wood and cooking Ktaran eggs.

        See what I mean?

        Instead of story like GEN having Picard trying to convince a supposedly not-so-interested Kirk into coming with him to "stop Soran", you have Kirk in a position of power doing a George Bush (yes he is) to build a "coalition" of some of the finest Star Fleet Captains and crew to stop the Suliban under the control of FutureGuy.

        People have talked about trying to make Trek "relevent". And just THAT (which I just came up with actually) - the "coalition building", but from the perspective of all the Trek series, IS symbollic of current events. Moreso than any Xindi.

        Quote:

        Where's the character growth?

        If one would take this out to 2 hours 20 minutes, which is about the average of a drama (which is about what NEM should have been before they cut it back under 2 hours), would give you some growth - that of Spock (which I saw in your earlier post that you had been rolling around in your head).

        Spock, as a slightly older than middle-aged Vulcan by the 24th century, has gone through a plethora of cycles and careers. We left off with him not only talking about "Logic is the beginning of wisdom", but 80 years later doing his Romulan underground work. And now might be an interesting time to have him consider doing THE MOST ILLOGICAL thing there is - bringing back his friend, ie., NOT leaving things as they were destined to be, and this would represent a definite shift towards him embracing his Humanity.

        See... Spock went through this whole life choice of Kolinahr because he figured this would FINALLY purge him of his emotionalism and the Human stain upon his Vulcan-ness. But now as the years have gone by, he can actually embrace that Humanity in a way that was just barely touched on in TUC.

        Quote:

        Where's the drama? Where's the fun and excitement?

        William Shatner. Image

        Every morning now, I'm greeted to his voice on a Priceline commercial that airs on one of my local all-news stations just before 6am. Image

        Quote:

        These are all just events and happenings.

        It's a trailer. Not a movie. It would be like a "pitch" of ideas in the biz. ;-)

        Quote:

        Big-named actors, special effects, settings, pop culture icons are all great gimmicks to help a story but there still is no story here. Who's the story about? Why should we, as audience members, care?

        Why are you insisting that this designated "Trailer" be a "short"?

        Perhaps what they could do is put together a 22 minute "short", a la like TAS bottle episodes, to actually flesh it out so more.

        Quote:

        I will agree that anything IS possible, especially when telling a story in the Star Trek universe. However, because things look cool and the good guys win isn't enough of a reason to tell a story. Just because fans want Kirk brought back from the dead isn't a good enough reason to do it. Just because fans like explosions isn't a good enough reason to blow up Spacedock and Vulcan statues.

        IMHO, there seems to be this obsession among the younger fans that such must be there. So IF the story is good, let it be there. Certainly the technology seems to make it cheaper to do. Generally the most expensive things in a film or any production, are the actors. ;-)

        Quote:

        A good story needs reason and purpose. It needs to tell the audience something. Star Trek's best stories were never about space battles and resurrecting dead characters. "The Wrath of Khan" was never about a cat and mouse game. It was about a man's undying vengence. It was about two friends that were so close that one man would give all he had to save the lives of the other. "Search For Spock" was not about Kirk fighting Klingons and blowing up he Enterprise. It was about a man and his friends throwing away everything they had on the off-chance that they could rescue their friend. "The Voyager Home" wasn't about whales. It was about the need to understand that decisions today can have very drastic consequences tomorrow.

        Well I think Spock's journey towards embracing his Human side would make a damn good story. But that has to be followed up with the "adventure" part that Roddenberry originally envisioned.

        Quote:

        I certainly understand that the tools used in creating this trailer created barriers that are impossible to overcome. This trailer is still a representation of ideas, and those ideas have to provide the audience with far more than being a visualization of gimmicks.

        Well... I think you might have missed that it was an edited together "story" that had a "beginning" a "middle" and an "end". I think you are frustrated because it understandly LACKS DIALOG. And that's because there was a conscious choice for them to literally use audio files of the actual actors/actresses voices saying certain words and phrases, that they then inserted into this thing to punctuate each little scene. So I would say, imagine if actual SUBSTANTIAL DIALOG was used for this? That is where the sky is the limit. ;-)

        --------

        "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
        ----
        "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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      • RE: Didn't answer my question | Report this post to moderator
        By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:50:51 on Mar 22, 2004

        "Where's the character growth? Where's the drama? Where's the fun and excitement? These are all just events and happenings. Big-named actors, special effects, settings, pop culture icons are all great gimmicks to help a story but there still is no story here. Who's the story about? Why should we, as audience members, care? "

        Again, you have to realize this isn't a real movie. It's a statement, and the statement was made brilliantly. To get into what you want would require getting the actors involved, and Paramount. You want that? Paramount has to take care of that. But what's great is that here you are talking about it.

        Even in this story, you have many of the elements you crave. You have a friendship that transcends death, centuries, and any obstacle that comes in its way.

        And you have humanity, down and out, regrouping and overcoming obstacles as only humanity can.

        What you're asking for is great. But remember, this is not a Paramount production. You can go only so far with clips and CGI. This film managed to go even farther than anyone could possibly ask.

        We got a coherent 9 minute film with smooth editing, amazing music, and something that showed an upbeat passion for a franchise that desperately needs it.

        Would THIS be the BBK story to end all stories? I don't know. But one thing is certain--that trailer was a hell of a fun ride.


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        • RE: Didn't answer my question | Report this post to moderator
          By: GreginWA (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 12:56:26 on Mar 22, 2004

          "Would THIS be the BBK story to end all stories? I don't know. But one thing is certain--that trailer was a hell of a fun ride."

          I don't think it was anything close to being a fun ride! :) A fun ride, to me, is more than watching things explode and every character on Star Trek come together to save humanity.
          However, I'm sure this was fun to put together and fun for some to watch. For me, though, it just reminds me of a video game.


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    • RE: Ridiculous | Report this post to moderator
      By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:27:40 on Mar 22, 2004 | Edit History (2)

      Incidentally, you mentioned you had a story where Spock helps rescue Kirk. If it's online, I'd love to read it.

      Going through your post again, you make some understandable points.

      You said:

      "They've included everything under the Sun from the Star Trek universe with the exception of the most important element: a story. Bring back Kirk from the dead doesn't have to be complicated. It doesn't have to be some intergalactic extravaganza spanning 3 centuries of future-history. The story needs to be simple. "

      Most people would agree with that. Understand though that the point of this was simply to show the amazing possibilities. A real BBK story would be a LOT simpler. From what I've seen, the Bring Back Kirk campaign is not so much endorsing this as a story, but just showing how amazing a return of Kirk can be.


      I'm with you about the things blowing up. In this case, it works, because it's a short film seeking to make a grand statement. So it succeeds brilliantly.

      I want to see Kirk on Enterprise. Let it happen simply. It just wasn't about a character rich story because it wasn't a real movie. It sounds like you do understand what a real BBK story should be like, but enjoy this for what it is--an AMAZING fan effort.


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      • RE: Ridiculous | Report this post to moderator
        By: GreginWA (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 12:44:02 on Mar 22, 2004

        Its not online. More or less its actually still in my head, lol. It was an idea that I put to "paper" in about 10 minutes. I wanted to tell a story that focused on Spock and his need to go against logic and reason to rescue Kirk from the Nexus. Its an idea that I feel really would draw from the same elements that made the Genesis Trilogy films (St2-4) so good. A man betraying logic and sacrificing his own decade-spanning career (not to mention reputation) simply because he feels Kirk calling to him (much the same way V'Ger called to him). Spock would go at great lengths to rescue his friend, which would include hijacking the Enterprise-E and, through a series of inactions, risk intergalactic war. So as you can see while Kirk is the focus of Spock's mission, Spock is the focus of my story (all the while Picard serves as the devil's advocate). Someday I'll write it out and post it. I did post a brief summary somewhere on this board a couple of months ago. If I find it I'll play arouind with it and post it sometime.


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  • RE: Ridiculous | Report this post to moderator
    By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:12:39 on Mar 22, 2004

    That makes me feel a bit better. All this hyper inflated fanboy stuff was making me queasy.


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    • RE: Ridiculous | Report this post to moderator
      By: lnformed (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:36:53 on Mar 22, 2004

      Far be it for fans to be ENTHUSIASTIC about Star Trek... FOR A CHANGE!


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      • RE: Ridiculous | Report this post to moderator
        By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:55:09 on Mar 22, 2004

        Oh, I am very enthusiastic about Star Trek.

        But this whole thing seems to be tearing the soul away from something that I am attracted to because of its soul.

        I doubt that I'll be able to explain myself much better than this...


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        • RE: Ridiculous | Report this post to moderator
          By: lnformed (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:58:45 on Mar 22, 2004

          I understand what you're saying. But I think this explains it best... this was written by one of the trailer's creators on another website:

          "We deliberately picked a story that we knew was a) plausible b) followed continuity and c) that they would and could NEVER do on the show.

          As soon as we pitch something that IS possible on the show, then we step on our own toes and remove the possibility of it ever happening.

          In effect it's just a piece of fan fiction animated. But one that can be used as a promotional tool to "sell" the idea that "possibilities" exist to mix Kirk with any of the other Trek casts. That's what it's really about, selling the viability; it has absolutely nothing to do with selling a story"


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          • RE: Ridiculous | Report this post to moderator
            By: spacebeluga (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:03:35 on Mar 22, 2004

            Quote:
            That's what it's really about, selling the viability; it has absolutely nothing to do with selling a story"

            Yet it still represents the kind of thing that is prevelant in fanfictions and such...oh well, I'll stop all my negativity and let you all have some fun basking in your own geekiness :-).


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Excellent Job. | Report this post to moderator
By: tomba1701 (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:58:16 on Mar 22, 2004

Sure it's a fanboy wet-dream concept (I was waiting for Moogie or the Salt Vampire to show up as the Defiant's science officer), but these guys did a great job with this.

It has a real epic scope to it, bridging the generations, galactic consequences, etc. That Federation armada was the most kick-ass Trek battle scene I have encountered since DS9.

The possibilities are indeed endless.

Not to be a wet blanket, however, we should keep in mind that Shat and Nimoy are the only oldies who appeared in this trailer who are actually capable of doing something like this at this point. B&B missed a great opportunity in the mid-90's, when the entire cast was alive (Kelley) and in better health (Doohan)

--------

"Commander, laws change, depending on who's making them. But justice, is justice" - Odo, "A Man Alone"


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  • RE: Excellent Job. | Report this post to moderator
    By: Grason (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:26:30 on Mar 22, 2004

    While Jimmy Doohan is more than likely out of the running for inclusion here (more's the pity, and be well, Jimmy!) De Kelley isn't. If this was really given big-budget treatment, we've got hundreds of hours of Bones available for digital sampling. Consider the scenes they did with Robert Shaw in Gladiator...after he was dead! They used a stand-in actor, and then digitally remapped Shaw's head onto the stand-in's. They could just as easily build a digital phonetic/phrase library of DeForest Kelley's voice (from Trek and any number of other sources) and have his voice perfectly rendered. Finally, since he'd be the new EMH, it wouldn't be quite so important to have him look as completely "solid" as Robert Picardo, now would it? That was always one of the things I disliked about Voyager: too much autonomy for the hologram!


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  • RE: Excellent Job. | Report this post to moderator
    By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:06:39 on Mar 22, 2004

    You're not being a wet blanket at all. Clearly, the DeKelley part was a tribute. If McCoy was in a real return of Kirk scenario, it would probably be similar to what we saw in the trailer. As for Doohan, that's understood too.

    Shatner and Nimoy certainly can appear. A real movie wouldn't be on the grand fanboy scale of this, but the point of this trailer was to show the possibilities. There was no stone left unturned.

    In a real Kirk return scenario, chances are it would be either an episode of Enterprise or a TV movie. What got me about this trailer was that not only did they nail the spirit of real Star Trek, but the music editing was brilliant.

    Why wasn't there a fleet battle like this in Nemesis?

    Kirk's return is so compelling. It would generate such buzz. Look at what a fan made film is doing. Imagine what the real thing would accomplish. PARAMOUNT WAKE UP!!!!


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    • RE: Excellent Job. | Report this post to moderator
      By: tomba1701 (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:07:18 on Apr 02, 2004

      I figured it was mostly a tribute to De and Jimmy. It is also an example of how foolish Paramount was not to make use of these actors while they were still able to appear in TV/film.

      There were great opportunities to use Scotty or Bones in the 24th century - heck, just about every major Trek novel finds a way to work them in somehow.

      Unfortunately, these characters now belong to the ages.

      Quote:
      Why wasn't there a fleet battle like this in Nemesis?

      Agreed - the trailer's space battle puts the ending of Nemesis to shame.

      Quote:
      Kirk's return is so compelling. It would generate such buzz. Look at what a fan made film is doing. Imagine what the real thing would accomplish. PARAMOUNT WAKE UP!!!!

      Absolutely.


      --------

      "Commander, laws change, depending on who's making them. But justice, is justice" - Odo, "A Man Alone"


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BRING BACK KIRK! | Report this post to moderator
By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:49:32 on Mar 22, 2004

OH MY GOODNESS!!!

I only downloaded the low quality one (will do the high quality at home).

THIS IS THE THING THAT COULD FINALLY MAKE ENT A PREQUEL!!!!

It's a wonder that this is the 2nd fan-produced thing that I have seen and BOTH projects have a better "feel" for being "Star Trek" than anything that is going on right now. Incredible.

--------

"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
----
"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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FANTASTIC! | Report this post to moderator
By: HotStove (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 10:18:20 on Mar 22, 2004

What a great job! This is the ultimate fanboy endeavor. Beyond the Bring Back Kirk campaign, it makes you wonder if Paramount is waiting for the original cast to pass on before putting forth their own CGI version of TOS. Imagine getting to watch the second 5 year mission ala "Final Fantasy" CGI style...!

--------

"Let's make sure history never forgets the name Enterprise."
Jean-Luc Picard, Yesterday's Enterprise


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HOLY CRAP!!!! | Report this post to moderator
By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:29:07 on Mar 22, 2004

HOLY CRAP!!!! DOWNLOAD THIS THING NOW!!!!

It had everything in it! Kirk returns! Picard, Archer, even Sisko! These people managed to keep canon AND provide a story with all FIVE series'.

It's hard to describe this. The detail is unbelievable!

They have characters interacting from different series'! Kirk talks to Archer! Picard and Scotty--together again! Tuvok and Spock!

Holy cow! And the battle scene--WOW! If they'd have done something like this for Nemesis, the movie might have done better.

The musical score was amazing. I can't say enough.

Why is it that a group of fans with no budget can GET IT, but Rick Berman can't?

I really hope this film gets into the hands of the right people at Paramount. DOWNLOAD IT. You will NOT regret it.


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  • RE: HOLY CRAP!!!! | Report this post to moderator
    By: The Sisko (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 07:15:07 on Mar 26, 2004

    I do have to say that I like the reflection, glare from the sun?. As the Enterprise E spins around and you here Kirk say Spock. At that point I am sure there will be an edit of this clip. Get it down to 4 or 5 minutes is all you need just show the main key parts with the best of the action scenes. The things that stick out to me the most is, I did mention two so far is when Picard wants Scotty to over see the refit of the Enterprise E.

    The Enterprise A fires a beam into the nexus and Spock jettisons into it. Spock appears on the planet and sees Kirk, Kirk looks up and is over overjoyed to see Spock standing there, that part was the most real to me. And as Scotty would say, it brought a tear to me eye really it did. When Kirk asks is there anything else being installed on my Ship I should know about, hiding something Scotty says, ah ah no. Am I being replaced you here, that part was funny. Then you see Leonard Mccoy ripple into view in the form of a holo doctor. I can actually see that happening and honors his memory.

    The aliens are interesting as well, one of them you can only really see the outlines of as he is masked in the shadows by something. And the green guy follows his commands very suspenseful. Does this race have a name? who are they known as.

    Kirk and Crew seek out Archer, this is an important part to the whole thing.

    Then they recruit Sisko which I like and think is neat. I do think its time for some crossovers of other series. You have me wondering about this possible movie, and what part the time traveler may play in this

    Is it just me or does Riker say red alert the best? laugh. Is this one possible way I emphasize Kirk could die, by a smaller Ship slamming into the Enterprise crashing down towards him? then you see a flash close up shot of Kirk with a surprised look?.

    I do admit and again that if you are going to use some of these ideas elements that you've shown. The overall story will have to be ironed out some more and for the clip only show the key parts with some of the best action scenes you have. I do think its great to have Kirk back at least for one more hurrah. I like this idea a lot and I do support this, way to go.

    --------

    He is the Sisko, yes he is the Sisko


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  • RE: HOLY CRAP!!!! | Report this post to moderator
    By: brad hall (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:35:25 on Mar 22, 2004

    I just downloaded and watched the trailer. Fantastic!
    I think they should make a whole movie the way they are going. 9 min is much to short. One suggestion tho
    they need to have the enterprise b and c in it with the captains. Question how did they do the voices?
    Paramount should give them a green light to do the cgi movie with the theme of the trailer or make a new movie with all the actors etc from the series and films ie enterprise b and c.

    Brad.


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  • RE: HOLY CRAP!!!! | Report this post to moderator
    By: Three of Nineteen (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 09:05:45 on Mar 22, 2004 | Edit History (1)

    Well I'd love to download it, but with the lousy hosting it seems they are using it will be a while (at least for the HQ avi).
    I could propably host it faster on my home computer using bittorrent.
    But I'm looking forward to it :)

    --------

    "Ich habe es satt allein aufzustehn // als Erster zu sehn // Dass ich noch leb"
    "I'm fed up with getting up alone // To be the first to see // That I'm still alive"
    - Rosenstolz, "Ich will mich verlieben"


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    • RE: HOLY CRAP!!!! | Report this post to moderator
      By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:32:59 on Mar 22, 2004 | Edit History (1)

      Demand must have caused the high quality mirror site to shut down. I would suggest contacting Officials@bringbackkirk.com. The high quality version is available on bittorrent and Kazaa, it's just a matter of finding it. I'm sure someone there can help.

      UPDATE: For instructions on getting the high quality version, go here:

      http://www.bringbackkirk.com/trailer.html

      Get it via bittorrent, at the bottom of the page.


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