First and foremost, I'd agree with the fact that the actual Xindi/Harbinger part of the story was good. I would've liked to see more, but a story that leaves you wanting more is a good one. I thought the alien's makeup was done quite well, and was somewhat reminiscent of a stone man.
T'Pol and Trip's story was certainly sleazy. I'm sorry, but previous Trek series have never needed to show nudity to imply what was going on(yeah, it was just her back, but it was still unecessary. I'm just saying). I find it cheapens the show a little. Had T'Pol just laid Trip back with her Vulcan strength and out of camera view, I'm sure everyone would have gotten the message, and it could have possibly been worth a chuckle rather than eye rolling. I'd be disappointed if the relationship between Trip and the MACO woman(her name escapes me) didn't reemerge, as it would mean that it was simply a tool to arrive at T'Pol and Trip sleeping together. I wouldn't imagine they'd drop it, but you never know.
The fighting between Reed and Hayes was ridiculous in the way it was brought about. They're both tough guys. Would Reed really have held it in so long and acted like a bitter little boy towards Hayes, or would he have simply said "Are you after my job?" If a childish fight came after that, fine, but come on. They're both educated. I'm sure if Reed was going to continue being a wee lad, Hayes would have at least come forward and asked him sooner, "What's your problem?" It's not like Reed was hiding it well. I enjoyed Archer chewing them out about it. I enjoyed Archer leaving without dismissing them. In that vein, I'm happy the fight happened.
I enjoy Enterprise, for the most part. I think people are too hard on it. TNG wasn't particularly golden in its first few seasons. It had to iron some bugs out. I have faith(perhaps foolish hope) that the same can be done with Enterprise. As Deus said, the previous two episodes were good and encouraging. This episode didn't run with the ball; it dropped it. It could have been so much better with a little script editing and better directing. With Billingsly as a/the lead next week, I'm optimistic that things can get back on track.
-
Actually there has been plenty of nudity in TREK. Just look at the scantily-clad guest starring women in TOS, or the love episode of TNG where Yar got naked, or the Ferengi ep where Troi and her mother are naked. Or DS9 where almost every ep had Dabo girls walking around with their tits pushed up and out there for all to see. I think the Trip/T'Pol scene was actually quite well done and very sophisticated, the dialogue certainly was excellent in my view.
Reed being pissy? Who is to say how one person reacts? This kind of thing happens in the workplace all the time. No one wants to invite confrontation by coming out and saying something bluntly, so they instead make little remarks and so forth. The fact that the episode was already putting them into a physical training scenario in my mind made their fight perfectly believeable. Besides, it wasn't exactly vicious. They were cracking jokes and making faces and such through the whole thing. It was just a testosterone fest and I thought it actually came off pretty well.
--------
It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
-
There has been nudity but it never had this flavor of desperate 'nudity for ratings' flavor that it has now which is nothing short of sleazy. There was nothing sophisticated about it, it was a sweeps episode whose only calling card were cheap bits of violence and nudity.
And not people generally don't beat each other to a bloody pulp in the workplace. At least none of the places I've worked at.
-
But that's all external. The episode itself doesn't have the "flavor", rather I think that's just an external idea from the knowledge that it's Sweeps month and that previous opinion that ENT in general has been relying on sophomoric sex too much. The fact that UPN makes its trailers by emphasizing the potential sleaziness of an episode doesn't mean that the show actually is. Again, I just don't see how a single nude back scene qualifies as sleazy. To me, sleazy would be it Trip and T'Pol were seen actually having sex, or if T'Pol had decided to do her experiment with Corporal Cole.
I've already described how I felt the dialogue in the scene was witty and sophisticated.
As for the fight, I doubt many workplaces also put their employees through physical fight training. The idea was that the training, already underway, was forcing the personality conflict to the surface. It wouldn't have made sense if out of the blue, Reed started punching Hayes. But there was an entire story about physical training and the MACOs vs. the Enterprise crew, and thus Reed decided to challenge Hayes on the Major's own terms.
--------
It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
It was clearly not the best episode, and I doubt anyone will argue that it was, but 'sleaze-fest' is a little harsh. If judging only by the promo, yeah, but fortuately as is usually the case it in no way defined the actual episode. There was sex, there was violence, but in an attempt to create character development. The past few episodes have been so good and intense on such a big scale that it is refreshing to take that dive to the other side of human nature. It didn't really work entirely, but these are supposed to be actual people living in confined spaces with intense emotional and physical stress. They are going to move towards there basest impulse at some time or another. That's not why I watch Star Trek, and I've always been one of those female fans speaking out against those kinds of episodes, but at the same time I've always romantized that Riker/Troi relationship. Once in awhile it's good to stop and remember thatthese are supposed to be real people.
I enjoyed most of the episode though O.Deus does make some good points. The alien abduction was the best part of story. I was really getting steamed at Archer when he wanted to revive the alien against Phlox's wishes. Even though the story resolution eventually favored Archer's tactics towards the alien, how could Archer have suspected? Is Archer becoming too callous towards Expanse aliens in general? Another plot question. How did this alien know that Enterprise was in the general area to lay the trap? I liked the make up on the alien. It looked almost like muddy scales. At least we see that there is another race manipulating the Xindi.
To the sex, I'm somewhat disappointed in T'Pol. I thought her resolve was made of sterner stuff. And with all the Vulcan Pressure Technique being applied to more than just T'Pol, Tripp is going to have his hands full.
I'm relieved that Reed finally got that big chip off his shoulder. He's always felt threatened by other military personel that are in his vacinity. I don't agree with the 5 year old analogy here. Reed has finally found someone of his ilk that he can trust, respect and be respected by. For the Maco's part, the fight between the two of them was purely Reed's idea.
All in all, not a great episode but it's fault lies in trying to do too much. Trying to flesh out relationships while pushing the Xindi Arc along.
After reading this review, I certainly had my doubts. But honestly having just seen the episode, I thought it was far from sleazy. Although I haven't exactly been looking forward to what I've often found a strange pairing in Trip/T'Pol and, let's face it, when you think STAR TREK, romance isn't exactly the first thing to come to your mind, I found this episode to be not a step back but another positive step forward for ENTERPRISE.
I found very little in the ep that could qualify as "sleaze." For one thing, there is basically no sex in this episode. We have a couple seconds of kissing, and then a very brief shot of T'Pol's naked backside. Despite the fact that here in Gainesville, the CBS affiliate cut the shot for two seconds of black air time instead, I wouldn't consider this sleazy. STAR TREK's track record is full of sexually-charged scenes involving Yar, Troi, Troi's mother, Bajoran Dabo girls, to say nothing of Green Orion Slave Girls or the various guest-starring ladies in Captain Kirk's cabin. So this was in no way a break with STAR TREK tradition.
Also, I was very surprised with the sophisticated dialogue throughout the script. Trip and T'Pol's scene was very well written and adult, in my opinion. Blalock actually gave what I think is one of her best performances and the words were witty and clever. Same goes for most scenes in the script, including T'Pol/Cole and Trip/Reed. The mess hall scene in particular was very well written and acted, one of the best scenes in the entire series.
I found Reed and Hayes' story very believeable and didn't have a problem with Reed's actions at all. It's the same kind of professional personality conflicts that happen all the time in the real world, especially in a situation as tense as the one on the Enterprise this season. The fight scenes were playful and very well choreographed. The editing was also spot-on in these segments.
The alien's plot was well done, not over done. He really didn't have much to do other than what we saw so I felt that the balance was struck well between all three plots. It was a great character-based episode. Deus criticizes the make-up and VFX but both looked just as good as they have in STAR TREK for the last 5-10 years. I don't see any evidence of slouching in this department. Archer's role was also very well written, only getting forceful after the alien accosted the warp core. For once, they also gave Phlox a little bit of backbone in standing up somewhat to Archer's demands.
The only red flag in my mind was Reed and Hayes firing their weapons right at the warp core. Instead, Coto should have had Hayes fire and Reed use his space experience to push his weapon down and tell him it's too risky, then let the scene play out as it did. This would've strengthened the notion that Reed and Hayes came to mutually respect each other after the incident.
In sum, "Harbinger" was a very well written character episode that treated the questionable romantic thread with wit and sophistication, introduced a huge Xindi arc twist, and gave us some great scenes with Reed, Hayes, Archer, and T'Pol. Comparing this episode to "A Night In Sickbay" just doesn't cut it for me. They're light years apart.
--------
It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
-
A good episode. I was disappointed with Trip and T'Pol's shrugging off the progress they'd made together. That was the most dissatisfying. But I found the fight scenes entertaining, and the big, big deal about the episode is this:
The time traveller appearing in the anomaly convergence was no coincidence. (I thought he was Suliban, apparently not.) He was placed right there by someone predicting exactly what would happen at that time, except for his success in destroying Enterprise. It was predicted that he would be injured, cared for by the crew, how they would perceive him, and how with his phase shifting, he would be impervious to their weapons and could destroy the ship.
Whoever is responsible is thinking two steps ahead of Enterprise in the Expanse. This is a serious revelation.
--------
Perfect is a flawed concept. Ain't that some zen for ya? - (c) 2009 The Jedi
-
In sum, "Harbinger" was a very well written character episode that treated the questionable romantic thread with wit and sophistication...Comparing this episode to "A Night In Sickbay" just doesn't cut it for me. They're light years apart.
Just as a minor point, you made virtually the same defense for A Night in Sickbay back when I panned it.
-
Yes, I did rigorously defend "Sickbay" last year. In fact, my defense became somewhat famous. But there I wasn't so much praising the episode for being a success, as I was arguing that the content -- bringing the hallowed STAR TREK captain off his/her pedestal and showing us a more human side of the heros -- was fundamentally different from previous TREKs and that had to be understood before blindly criticizing it. I'm sure you can find my post in the Talkback Search if interested.
Here, however, I think "Harbinger" is actually a very good episode with a minimal of "sleaze." I don't think one brief nude flash can be considered as such, and romance in general has a long tradition in TREK. Since it was handled here with expertly-crafted dialogue and performances, I think the episode stands up very well.
--------
It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
This is probably the best attempt at a character-orientated story Enterprise has ever done. Unfortunately, it was as silly as a cartoon.
I actually enjoyed this week because any kind of hope I had for this show has long gone and I have no expectations left.
I simply laugh at Enterprise now and dismiss it afterwards as the piece of fluff it really is.
All that is left is a boob-fest. And it is quite effective as such.
Gene Roddenberry would turn in his grave... if he hadn't been cremated.
-
Quote:
All that is left is a boob-fest. And it is quite effective as such.
Ironic, since there were no breasts shown. There was only ONE, count it, ONE scene of nudity. I think STAR TREK fans have a really bad memory. Go back through TOS and TNG and DS9 to find plenty of skin scenes with Yar, Troi, Ro Laren, Leeta, etc. etc.
--------
It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
-
Now did I say, Bare Boob Fest, Steve?
No.
Can I ask you, was that not the biggest-breasted actress they could find for a female Maco?
Yes it was.
Therefore a boob fest.
If the producers spent as much time filling their stories with content instead of bras with the biggest pairs of jubblies they can find, I am sure the show would not be facing Friday night exile.
-
So now you're blaming the actress for the size of her breasts? Who's doing the objectifying now? The woman did a fine job in her role and diminunizing her because she was physically attractive is an old sexist practice. I thought we were enlightened STAR TREK fans.
--------
It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
Lots going on in "Harbinger," which made it seem longer than a usual episode (not a bad thing). Nice to see Travis involved! Ah, but where was Hoshi? I'm never satisfied.
The alien harbinger was pretty interesting; can't wait to see what his arrival portends. Oh, and the visual effects of the "bubbling" energy field were amazing.
About T'Pol ... if her seducing Trip bothered you, review "Fusion." She really *is* curious about humans, and as she said in "Fusion," she only left the Vulcan compound in San Francisco *once* to experience human culture. The implication is that she would have liked to go out *more*, but felt restricted by her ties to the Vulcan High Command.
Now, with that connection removed, she is free to immerse herself in everything human (as if she really has a choice on Enterprise). Movie night, for example.
Regarding the whole Vulcan acupressure thing, let's face it — it *is* an intimate experience for both participants. What we really need to see — for validation, I suppose — is two Vulcan males or two Vulcan females engaging in the acupressure without it turning into a homosexual experience. It's not meant to "automatically" turn into a one-night stand, gay or straight, and I admit that if given the choice, I would have preferred that T'Pol and Trip *didn't* hook up. But what's done is done.
T'Pol is alone on Enterprise, isolated from her people. How long could you keep your defensive walls up? Why wouldn't she throw herself into the part? I'll buy her excuse about wanting to experience human intimacy for no other reason than interest.
But her jealousy toward Trip (and make no mistake, it *was* jealousy), that might be a little harder to reconcile. She's had some time to mull over Sim's declaration of romantic interest. Maybe this was what sparked her interest in human lovemaking. Maybe this is a leftover remnant from her premature pon farr. Or maybe she really *is* acknowledging her closeness to Trip, professionally and physically ... at least to herself.
The whole thing was interesting, to say the least, and it's already sparking controversy, which is one of Star Trek's hallmarks.
About next week's "Doctor's Orders," wow, could they have done a better job making it seem like a redux of VGR's "One"? Dunno about that, but I'm willing to wait and see ...
--------
LORD EDZO
Imperious Leader - Paramount Ruler - Master and Commander
This episode wasn't terrible. But it certainly wasn't great either. The biggest problems with the episode wasn't the sex. It wasn't the seeming pointlessness of the story when compared to the overall arc. The problem was the fact that both the MACOs relationship with the crew and the focus on the Trip/T'Pol romantic relationship hasn't been a forefront for the series recently. That was what hurt the episode. The MACOs are cool, but we haven't really seen them interacting with the crew so the tension between Hayes and Reed just feels random. The Trip/T'Pol relationship, while being alluded too, suddenly seemed to pop out of the woodwork.
That being said, the episode really wasn't that bad. The Trip/T'Pol stuff was a bit blase' but the scenes between Reed and Hayes were very well done, if seeming a bit random do to the lack of previous interaction.
However, I am intrigued by the alien. Is this one of those alternate dimension aliens TPTB have alluded to? Interesting.
All in all, this episode definately wasn't the best the series has offered, but it definately isn't "Spock's Brain" either.
--------
Scientists discover the world that exists;
engineers create the world that never was.
-Theodore von Kármán
I really got a kick out of Reed's fight. It was very well staged - they held back the music to try to create "drama" instead just let it play out as brutal, petty and pretty funny and cool at the same time. (my favourite part was reed taunting the MACO telling him to watch his eyes). Reed was really good in that part, and I really got the rage that was building underneath him. Also it had one of the best laughs I had in ENTERPRISE this season "Mind your business ensign!" *BLAM! FIST COMES OUT OF CAMERA LEFT*
Maybe I'm just a testosterone fuled male, but I loved the mayhem of that plotline.
The aliens suff, as Deus said, was the best stuff of the episode. His throwaway line at the end was awesome.
As for the massages -- I never dug this plotline all year. nice ass shot anyway. Good interaction / awkward moment at the end between T'Pol and Trip. But easily could have been done away with.
as for his FX comment -- I seriously don't know where the heck you're commin from on that one. Really man, I thought it looked great. That big friggin blob was cool and a nice throwback to TOS episodes when they used to encounter blobs in space (tm) every other friggin week.
--------
An elephant never forgets . . .TO KILL!
He probably was one of those who filed the lawsuit regarding Janet Jackson's S.B. Halftime "display." I'm just kidding with you Deus, you get so squeamish about anything sexual, it's hard to not take a jibe at you. I haven't read anybody's comments yet except Deus' review, so I'm sorry if there are any repeats.
While I agree with our hallowed reviewer about the fact that this episode seemed a little weak, it was for completely different reasons. Reed. There's been something about him from day one. While I like the character and his back story, there's something about the performance that just seems a little too melodramatic. I mean, come on, how would you get to become chief tactical and security officer on Humanity's first bona fide starship when the very mention of help with tactical exercises makes you paranoid that people are trying to take over your position. It just doesn't add up. No. Didn't like it, didn't like his portrayal... weak.
When the episode began, and we saw Trip massaging the foot, I could hear the collective groans across this entire nation of those of you who feel that sex has no place in Star Trek. Then, 15 seconds later, I heard those groans turn to gasps! At least my roommate and I were gasping. I was so sure that was T’Pol’s foot… kudos to the writers for pulling one over on us… especially with such a controversial topic as Vulcan/Human interspecies mingling. Look, we knew going into it that this was going to be a “Tri’Pol” episode. I think they did an outstanding job of keeping it interesting… keeping us guessing. We’ve already seen that this particular Vulcan has chosen to be more in touch with her emotions. She’s not Sarek, or Savvik, or Tuvok… or Spock. She even covered for this by referring to the encounter as an exploration of human sexuality. It was so cute, watching her confront these feelings within herself, something we’ve never seen a Vulcan go through before. And the interaction between the two of them was beautifully timed, with sharp execution and clever dialogue. There is no way anyone can convince me that this was crap, just a I can’t convince a lot of you that it was good. All I can say is this: The show needs more viewers. The show needs younger viewers. Throwing a romantic story with a little skin in there catches the attention of said needed viewers. Things like corporations and television shows that don’t change with times ultimately die.
The Xindi arc tie-in with the mysterious sleeping alien was interesting, especially how he seemed to tie in the elements of the Expanse together. I don’t quite understand Deus’ quip about the makeup, at least it wasn’t a “forehead of the week.” One thing that bothered me, and has always bother me in Star Trek, is that people who have lost their molecular cohesion and can walk through walls seem to have selective opacity. He walks through walls and phase pistol blasts, but the floor and table… even the ladder in engineering he can touch. I suppose that he actually CAN control what he touches. What did he say at the end though? “When the Xindi destroy Earth, my people will *****?” I didn’t catch that last word. Neither did anyone I’ve talked to.
All in all, not the best outing, but far from the worst. Next week looks like a rehash episode, but it seems to showcase Phlox, which is almost always a good thing. We’ll see!
-Lem
--------
"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
I don't see what the big deal is. I haven't been keeping up with Enterprise, but I have to say I don't see the big deal with the whole Trip and T'Pol thing. Trip lost his sister whom he was very attached to. T'Pol, being a Vulcan, can control her emotions pretty well. The intimacy between the two serves to relax Trip into being able to deal with his problems before he faces the Xindi and becomes a liability during a confrontation with them. T'pol is a stranger among the enitre crew, constantly exposed to emotional aliens. She's not Spock, so I think that her reaction's to the being exposed to all humans is a good thing for her character.
As to the violence on Reed's part...well that's very justifiable. Who hasn't felt threatened by a new upstart at their job? I'll bet a lot of us. I don't see where this is out of character? Anyone who's worked in a high intensity/stress career will tell you that things can come pretty close to blows...yes, even adults.
I thought the episode was fine. Not my favorite, but it certainly wasn't bad. Then again, I am in the vaunted 18-24 male category, and it could be that I just like sex and violence...but maybe I'll get the benefit of the doubt?
O
--------
Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
Mark Twain
I found this episode to be more entertaining than Deus did. "Harbinger" was the not the worst episode of Star Trek I've ever witnessed. But it certainly wasn't memorable either.
Cheers to the writers for injecting some humor. Cheers to the tension between Reed and Hayes. Cheers to the story development about the mysterious alien.
Jeers to the some of the fight scenes because they clearly showed that stunt men performed the hand to hand combat between Reed and Hayes (which, come to think of it, reminds me of Capt. Kirk's fisticuffs back in the day).
Jeers to the alien's makeup and the vagueness/underdevelopment of the alien's storyline. It's one thing to create mystery by not revealing everything at once. It's another to be so cryptic that the audience is not left with enough information to enjoy the mystery.
I have no real impressions about the development between T'Pol and Trip because it wasn't that big of a deal.
-
Quote:
Cheers to the writers for injecting some humor
... and more specificaly, I thought the "Do you think we're dismissed ?" line was hilarious !
--------
We're all looking for Shangri-La
Lost Horizon
-----------------
We live in a world where too many people won't go far enough, do what they know is right, what they believe.
Frank Black - Millennium
Normally, I use my Trekweb time to wish Deus would say something nice about the episode he just trashed. I'll skip it this time.
Mostly I liked the "back at yea" script writing, covered in an earlier post. And the "what just happended here?" comment Trip made before the skin showed up. IMHO, the skin could have waited until a later episode while the relationship built a bit more tension. However, if you're thinking about canceling the show, you gotta get the job done earlier.
I work in an Upstate New York high school building where the fights like the well choreographed one between Reed vs Hayes happens once every other year. I agree with Archer, the problem should be fixed for good, and that's an order. For the curious, school population is 825.
Oh, and the "A" story line, the sound wasn't good enough on my TV to hear what the alien said as he disappeared. I'll have to re-watch the episode on tape to remember what this plot was about. I hope next week's episode has a stronger "A" story line.
Finally, could I get information on the Romulan phrase "Jo Lan Tru", I watched in TNG Unification?
-
Quote:
Finally, could I get information on the Romulan phrase "Jo Lan Tru", I watched in TNG Unification?
If you note the context, it's a standard Romulan greeting - sortof like a "Good day". Unfortunately the language hasn't really been developed like Klingon. ;-)
--------
"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
----
"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
Quote:
the terrible space special effects that look like they're from an 80's movie
Well I'd like to know what kind of movies from the 80's you're actually refering to...
That shot where the Enterprise passes by the camera (35m 46s) looks new to me. It's the first time the camera gets so close to the ship in this kind of shot, showing at last how large the ship really is. The textures and the lighting were really nice too.
And about the "Sleaze fest"... Where have you been living lately ? In a convent ???
You obviously have enough valid elements to trash this episode, so stick to them instead of making up some more ...
--------
We're all looking for Shangri-La
Lost Horizon
-----------------
We live in a world where too many people won't go far enough, do what they know is right, what they believe.
Frank Black - Millennium
Some due must be given, I think, to the comedy in the final scene when T’Pol tells Trip, “I’ve been meaning to thank you,” and Trip gets all puffed up and pleased with himself….and then she proceeds to lower the boom…that was funny and well done.
I think some of the banter was pretty funny, Spock and McCoy meet Maddie Hayes and David Addison….
This isn't STAR TREK. You know there was a point in last season where they were focusing on the three, tha captain, trip, and T'POl. The character development and interaction between these three was getting kind of interesting. Reminded me of another BIG three,,,,,Instead now...we get this mess. And this was .. a mess.
Unless this show changes drastically, let's all face it .. it should die this year... Before it embarasses the STAR TREK legacy.
passed off as "art" where the artist throws clods of clay into some kind of shapeless mound. It's hard enough to do justice to one story in a 40 minute ep, much less try to squeeze in three. Nevertheless, the alien "canary", and even the Trip/T'Pol/Cole story could have amounted to something, if only there had been some competent writing here. Instead, we were treated to a lot of rehashed cliches, and unprofessional, abberent behavior from characters whose personalities should by now be pretty well formed.
I liked the Trip/Cole relationship, and I hope we'll get to see it develop. The two actors appear to have some chemistry, certainly in relation to what we've seen from the stumbling Trip/T'Pol efforts. T'Pol's sudden jealousy and passion was particularly adolescent and cliched in its execution. About the only good scene in this storyline was the one between T'Pol and Cpl Cole, and even that one showed a petty T'Pol. Now, maybe T'Pol's pettiness is due to her inexperience dealing with emotions. It's certainly plausible to assume that Vulcans would act in an adolescent manner where strong emotions are concerned, given their inexperience with them, but her scenes could have been written with a lot more finesse and nuance. We should have seen her struggling with feelings newly realized, not sniping at Trip. This was no better than a Harlequin Romance (and a badly written one, at that).
As another poster wrote, I've just about lost all my respect for the Reed character. It's hard to imagine a professional officer being so petty. Archer had it right when he accused Reed and Hayes of acting like five year olds. Their feud is just plain stupid-- It's clear that Reed's duties as tactical officer aren't threatened by Hayes, and as for his men taking advantage of MACO cross-training, what's the big deal? It happens all the time in today's military & police forces. The way Reed's character is written shows an almost criminal lack of understanding of security and military issues. I'm not saying that Enterprise should turn into "Marines in Space", but if they're going to have military forces on board, they might at least bring in someone to advise them on things like military cross-training. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together would realize the advantages of increasing the Enterprise Security force's combat skills, and for Reed not to embrace this over some petty pissing match with a perceived rival is the height of unprofessionalism.
Oh, yeah, and by the way, how is it that a Major is calling a Lieutenant "sir"? Major outranks a Lieutenant in every military or quasi-military organization that I know of. Even if we're speaking of a naval Lieutenant (equivalent to a Captain in the Army, Air Force or Marine Corps), Major comes out on top, rank-wise. While Reed should undoubtedly be in charge of security ops on board, Hayes outranks him every day of the week. OK, I'll get off my soap box now...
Harbinger would have been a lot better if it had been broken up into two or three eps, and the material given to the best of the writing staff to properly develop. As it was, this was a disappointing mish-mash that didn't do anything other than waste an hour of everyone's time.
--------
Honi Soit qui Mal y Pense...
-
Quote:
Oh, yeah, and by the way, how is it that a Major is calling a Lieutenant "sir"? Major outranks a Lieutenant in every military or quasi-military organization that I know of. Even if we're speaking of a naval Lieutenant (equivalent to a Captain in the Army, Air Force or Marine Corps), Major comes out on top, rank-wise. While Reed should undoubtedly be in charge of security ops on board, Hayes outranks him every day of the week. OK, I'll get off my soap box now...
Well, Enterprise is a Starfleet ship. Because of that, and the fact that Reed is the armory/tactical/security officer, Hayes probably is simply defering to his authority.
--------
-
How is being jealous a cliche? How do you expect people to act when someone they like seems to be attracted to someone else?
--------
"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
-
I didn't say that her jealousy was a cliche, but rather that it was executed in a cliched manner. Jealousy is natural, even expected, if one accepts the proposition that T'Pol is a Vulcan who doesn't shy away from exploring her feelings. The problem is that the writers (I'm assuming B&B, rather than Coto, who seems to be a decent scripter) did a hackneyed job of showing T'Pol's jealousy. Good writing would have avoided the petulant tit-for-tat reparte between Trip and T'Pol, or the obvious cattiness with which T'Pol approached her session with Cpl. Cole. Both of those scenes were rife with cliches, and it lowered the quality of the ep, IMO.
--------
Honi Soit qui Mal y Pense...
-
You see, the tit for tat stuff was what I felt was EXCELLENT writing. It was a style that was even used in two other exchanges within this episode. But, you say to-may-toe and I say to-mah-toe...
--------
"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
What a piece of trash last nights episode was. I agree with the review totally. I mean when Mayweather got his ass beat down he stood up and smiled, I mean that was a chance for that guy to have some kind of realistic reaction, any kind than the blank catatonic stare we are served week after week. Instead he's wall paper again.
And that girl, Cole? Is it me or were there a lot of teeth in her mouth? Like a bunch of candy. She was so attractive until that smile happened, I could just hear my TV cracking.
The Maco leader, man I don't even know who that guy was and I watch every week! The whole conflict came out of nowhere and in that time of crisis, in the future no less, you would think there would be some self control. Instead you got two grown men beating the crap out of each other, how embarassing. Thats not the type of people you'd call professional. Any respect for Reed died last night.
Trip is dead to me too. He sucks as an engineer and a second officer, his character is wasted on T'pol. Rememeber when yelled at the Vulcans using the word ass? That man doesn't exist anymore, he's now a day spa manager. Its too bad because I really liked the character in the beginning.
T'pol, she's attractive, but everything she does seems so out of character. The writers killed off the tension between her and the captain. Thats too bad because he could use a logical voice while he walks the edge of the abyss.
Overall the show sucked big time. Its the writers, I mean the actors seemed to try their best to get through the crap they were given.
Not watching next week, I think I saw that story before...
-
I agree with you guys wholeheartedly, this soap-opera stuff has no place on trek. They almost completely ignored this alien, who may turn out to be one of the most important aliens, since it was his people that warned the Xindi about Earth.
--------
"So, how many years until your Pon Farr comes around again?"
-Trip
Important stuff regarding the Spheres, the Expanse, the Xindi and more was going on ... in the C storyline. As important as these developments were and going by the build up, they should have been the A story.
Instead, we get a wasted hour.
I don’t mind the sex and I even enjoyed the banter (it reminded me of Moonlighting) but that whole “experiment” business is beyond credibility.
I hope it will be revealed as T’Pol’s attempt to rationalize aberrant self-behavior she doesn’t understand and/or is ashamed of (as love and sex are want to produce)….but why must I hope? Couldn’t the writers/director/producer/actors have given me something to work with on this point? It’s a crucial development in this television series and was handy in a sloppy, slapdash manner…what the hell happened?
Dam it Jim! I’m an engineer not a writer! So if you want to flam me go right ahead! I have been reading Trekweb for a while now, and it always makes me laugh when the little boys just can’t stand all the “mushy” stuff! What is it about the sight of beautiful women that makes all the nerds cringe, and cry foul?
Look I will be the first person to admit that I myself am a nerd, like I said I am an engineer, so I don’t mean it as a big insult and all, but come on guys! Can we grow up a little! Or should I lump ya’ll in with the likes of those who thought Janet Jackson’s exposure was obscene? Yeah ok, it was not a very attractive breast but the whole deal was much to do about nothing. In fact I find Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell (modern day Pharisees) to be more obscene than anything Janet Jackson did during the Super Bowl!
But that’s beside the point. I thoroughly enjoyed Harbinger. Like it or not, no one can say that the Trip T’pol thing has not been building up for a while, but it would be nice if they could stay consistent and not keep jumping between Archer and Trip. Rather than being sleazy, I found the whole thing rather tasteful.
“But she’s a Vulcan! She can’t act that way!”
B.S.! If Mr. Spock can cry during his guest appearance on Next Generation, then I can see T’pol “acting out of character befitting a Vulcan”. Besides I always viewed Spock to be the quintessential Vulcan. Much like Worf, Spock had to prove himself by living up to, and exceeding the high ideals and expectations of his society, even though many others of there own race could not live up to these expectations themselves. Let's not forget, Sarek’s pride would be considered out of character for a Vulcan, and Spock's wife was plotting to have him killed so she could be with the one she...loved? Or perhaps preferred is the better word?
However if you must have some excuse for T’pol’s behavior then I summit to you that T’pol is very young for a Vulcan, and can not control her self as best as she should, after all when Spock was serving under Captain Pike he appeared to have trouble keeping his emotions under control! I know that was during the pilot episode, but as far as I know it is considered cannon, is it not!
Curse me if you like but I have enjoyed Enterprise much more than Next Generation. I must admit that the show would be much better off if it had a bible, instead of this “Were going to get there some how.” attitude B&B have!
However it is the characters I like best about Enterprise. The only one I am not found of is Hoshi, as opposed to Next Generation where I really enjoyed Worf, and Data. I have respect for Picard, but I could really give a dam about any of the others.
I have seen it written before, but for those of you who object to all the cat suits and sexual situations, I must point out that Kirk was always on the make, Troy had a plunging neckline, and I’m sure that all those mini-skirts, and skimpy outfits worn during the original series was done for ethical reasons, and not simply for ratings.
Cheers!
-
Quote:
Dam it Jim! I’m an engineer not a writer! So if you want to flam me go right ahead!
Why? Because you feel that you can't adequately support your opinion? ;-)
Quote:
I have been reading Trekweb for a while now, and it always makes me laugh when the little boys just can’t stand all the “mushy” stuff! What is it about the sight of beautiful women that makes all the nerds cringe, and cry foul?
Don't assume that this place is nothing but "little boys". Seems many act like them though, but Trekweb is not the purview of or is a men's-only or boy's-only club.
Quote:
Look I will be the first person to admit that I myself am a nerd, like I said I am an engineer,
Why does being an "engineer" automatically make someone a "nerd"?
Quote:
so I don’t mean it as a big insult and all, but come on guys! Can we grow up a little! Or should I lump ya’ll in with the likes of those who thought Janet Jackson’s exposure was obscene?
Who needs to "grow up" are the writers who continually make sex and sexual relations, a juvenile subject as it is depicted. There's nothing "mature" at all about how they have handled it in this show. Except perhaps "mature" for the "little boys". ;-)
Quote:
Yeah ok, it was not a very attractive breast but the whole deal was much to do about nothing. In fact I find Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell (modern day Pharisees) to be more obscene than anything Janet Jackson did during the Super Bowl!
Note that whereever you come from most likely does NOT having the diversity of population that the U.S. has, with respect to races, ethnic groups, cultures, religions, creeds, and so forth. Ie., the U.S. is not a homogenious society. And thus the societal rules reflect a consensus of the general population.
Quote:
But that’s beside the point. I thoroughly enjoyed Harbinger. Like it or not, no one can say that the Trip T’pol thing has not been building up for a while, but it would be nice if they could stay consistent and not keep jumping between Archer and Trip.
And THAT is why it all needs to end. It has gone from Trip to Archer to Reed back to Archer back to Reed and now back to Trip. To the point where the actress recently joked in an interview wondering whether Travis was next. It's a disgrace.
Quote:
Rather than being sleazy, I found the whole thing rather tasteful.
“But she’s a Vulcan! She can’t act that way!”
B.S.!
It IS B.S.
Quote:
If Mr. Spock can cry during his guest appearance on Next Generation, then I can see T’pol “acting out of character befitting a Vulcan”.
I suggest that you go back and rewatch TNG "Unification I & II" and find that you are imagining things. And you should also note that Spock is half Human and this character is not. Or so we can gather. Many of us suspect that she is some mutant Romulan.
Quote:
Besides I always viewed Spock to be the quintessential Vulcan. Much like Worf, Spock had to prove himself by living up to, and exceeding the high ideals and expectations of his society, even though many others of there own race could not live up to these expectations themselves.
BECAUSE... he was a HALF BREED (as they would say in the show). ;-)
Quote:
Let's not forget, Sarek’s pride would be considered out of character for a Vulcan,
And he begs forgiveness for any lack of control, unlike this character.
Quote:
and Spock's wife was plotting to have him killed so she could be with the one she...loved? Or perhaps preferred is the better word?
I suggest that you go back and rewatch TOS "Amok Time" and stop guessing or imagining about what happened. There's alot of guessing going on around this place and it shows.
Quote:
However if you must have some excuse for T’pol’s behavior then I summit to you that T’pol is very young for a Vulcan,
And where did you get that idea? In ENT "Fallen Hero", the Vulcan Ambassador V'Lar remarks to both Archer and Tucker at a dinner in the Captain's Mess that T'Pol attended, that both men were "most certainly dining with the 2 oldest people on this ship". So guess what? ;-)
Quote:
and can not control her self as best as she should, after all when Spock was serving under Captain Pike he appeared to have trouble keeping his emotions under control!
Again, ENT "Fallen Hero" establishes no such thing about T'Pol and in fact V'Lar reads her thoughts and notes that T'Pol had been suppressing disappoinment in her.
Quote:
I know that was during the pilot episode, but as far as I know it is considered cannon, is it not!
No, "The Cage" is NOT considered "canon" because it never aired during the original broadcast of the show and was only made available for airing for the first time on TV, some 20 years after the original TOS broadcast.
Quote:
Curse me if you like but I have enjoyed Enterprise much more than Next Generation. I must admit that the show would be much better off if it had a bible, instead of this “Were going to get there some how.” attitude B&B have!
And this sentiment has been expressed by many here - ie., this era HAS to be mapped out in order to believeably tell stories during it that will somehow mesh with what will come in the next century.
Quote:
However it is the characters I like best about Enterprise. The only one I am not found of is Hoshi, as opposed to Next Generation where I really enjoyed Worf, and Data. I have respect for Picard, but I could really give a dam about any of the others.
I have seen it written before, but for those of you who object to all the cat suits and sexual situations, I must point out that Kirk was always on the make,
And again, I suggest that you go back and actually WATCH TOS and quit repeating the myths.
Quote:
Troy had a plunging neckline,
And a number of men wore skirted uniforms in the first season of TNG like this:
And?
Quote:
and I’m sure that all those mini-skirts, and skimpy outfits worn during the original series was done for ethical reasons, and not simply for ratings.
Were you around in the '60s? Apparently not. THAT was the fashion of the '60s that many women WORE, and the only ones citing this sort of thing with the TOS uniforms are people who weren't even born or around at that time or before. It's very obvious. Go look up "Twiggy" and see what she was wearing. 
Quote:
Cheers!
You have some Romulan Ale to give those cheers with?
--------
"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
----
"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
-
Quote:
Dam it Jim! I’m an engineer not a writer! So if you want to flam me go right ahead!
Why? Because you feel that you can't adequately support your opinion? ;-)
Quote:
I have been reading Trekweb for a while now, and it always makes me laugh when the little boys just can’t stand all the “mushy” stuff! What is it about the sight of beautiful women that makes all the nerds cringe, and cry foul?
Don't assume that this place is nothing but "little boys". Seems many act like them though, but Trekweb is not the purview of or is a men's-only or boy's-only club.
In no way does his comment allude itself to being refered to everyone here, only to those who can't accept that, despite their own morals and beliefs, a lot of people, including some of the ones on Enterprise, don't find sexuality to be that disturbing. Nor does it require the rituals *they* associate with sexuality. Remember, he's not a writer, so deductive reasoning and giving him the benefit of the doubt would probably be the pertinent thing to do.
Quote:
Look I will be the first person to admit that I myself am a nerd, like I said I am an engineer,
Why does being an "engineer" automatically make someone a "nerd"?
When does *anything* automatically make you a nerd? If you wear glasses? If you're into computers? If you're not good at attracting the oposite sex? I guess those are some of the stereotypes... I think another few are being intelligent and having an aptitude for technicality. You're gonna have to be pretty smart and technical to be an engineer. I think his profession is synonimous of some of the "nerd" stereotypes.
Quote:
so I don’t mean it as a big insult and all, but come on guys! Can we grow up a little! Or should I lump ya’ll in with the likes of those who thought Janet Jackson’s exposure was obscene?
Who needs to "grow up" are the writers who continually make sex and sexual relations, a juvenile subject as it is depicted. There's nothing "mature" at all about how they have handled it in this show. Except perhaps "mature" for the "little boys". ;-)
First of all, the word mature is very subjective, and I think everyone has different standards (and thinking that your standards are better than someone else's is very un-Trek of you). In my experience, the beginings of any sexual relationship are rarely "mature", and if they always are for you nowadays, you should try and have a little more fun sometimes!
Don't get me wrong though, I personally don't like what they did with T'Pol being all jealous and actually having sex with Trip to win the upper hand with him. I was actually thinking that maybe that blob somehow affected the crew.. since it was only engulfing a little past the bridge it didn't effect everyone (including Trip, but not T'Pol, she was on the bridge). That's how uncharcteristic of a Vulcan she was being... but I have to admit, if I was a writer, and had just got an order from my boss that the network wants Trip and T'Pol to have sex, and I already knew that T'Pol's ark was an ongoing experience of becoming just like humans, the way they wrote it was perfect. The way T'Pol got jealous of the other woman and what she did to win the upper hand was so incredibly characterisc of the way I've seen *so many* women act, that I have to give it up to the writers and the actors for pulling off what may have been the most uncanon display in Star Trek history in a realisticly human (giving to her ark) way. In a way I was relieved that they didn't make it some kind of disease or anomoly or something that screwed with her mind. I think they pushed the envelope too hard, but they had to, they still do, and we gotta deal with it. If they would only push it hard in other directions, then I would be happy.
Quote:
Yeah ok, it was not a very attractive breast but the whole deal was much to do about nothing. In fact I find Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell (modern day Pharisees) to be more obscene than anything Janet Jackson did during the Super Bowl!
Note that whereever you come from most likely does NOT having the diversity of population that the U.S. has, with respect to races, ethnic groups, cultures, religions, creeds, and so forth. Ie., the U.S. is not a homogenious society. And thus the societal rules reflect a consensus of the general population.
A boob. Forgive me, but when the consensus is that a boob can't be shown but showing senseless violence is commonplace, you just gotta get a little depressed with the state of mind of the general population. I think examples like this are one of the most embarassing aspects of our society.
Quote:
But that’s beside the point. I thoroughly enjoyed Harbinger. Like it or not, no one can say that the Trip T’pol thing has not been building up for a while, but it would be nice if they could stay consistent and not keep jumping between Archer and Trip.
And THAT is why it all needs to end. It has gone from Trip to Archer to Reed back to Archer back to Reed and now back to Trip. To the point where the actress recently joked in an interview wondering whether Travis was next. It's a disgrace.
Okay, I think we're all generally agreeing on this one. But just to be the devil's advocate, it is kinda realistic as far as humans go. Both women and men have a long history of being promiscuous, and although we're fed in almost any American drama that our hero's are perfect, in the real world, nobody is. Everyone thinks about other people, especially when they're single and among a lot of people. T'Pol, and just about everyone on the ship as far as I know is a case in point. The only stupid thing is, again, that she's Vulcan. She's not supposed to have sexual feelings for anyone at all... but since that's already thrown out the window, she might as well be a "slut" (which is what you were all alluding to). I like my hero's to have some issues.
Quote:
Rather than being sleazy, I found the whole thing rather tasteful.
“But she’s a Vulcan! She can’t act that way!”
B.S.!
It IS B.S.
Yeah it is B.S. Can we get over it? I can. I don't like it, but I can. And I agree that it wasn't that sleezy in the way it was done. It could have been a lot worse.
Quote:
If Mr. Spock can cry during his guest appearance on Next Generation, then I can see T’pol “acting out of character befitting a Vulcan”.
I suggest that you go back and rewatch TNG "Unification I & II" and find that you are imagining things. And you should also note that Spock is half Human and this character is not. Or so we can gather. Many of us suspect that she is some mutant Romulan.
Well he did cry... I mean, sure Picard was giving Spock the thoughts of a very sad man who was very close with him; Spock esentially becoming his father for a moment, and loosing the control his father had lost, but he still cried. Besides, Spock being half human was always used as an excuse. We learned a long time ago through Tuvok especially, that pure bred Vulcans have VERY strong feelings, a lot stronger than humans actually, and they take many, many, years to control masterfully.
Quote:
Besides I always viewed Spock to be the quintessential Vulcan. Much like Worf, Spock had to prove himself by living up to, and exceeding the high ideals and expectations of his society, even though many others of there own race could not live up to these expectations themselves.
BECAUSE... he was a HALF BREED (as they would say in the show). ;-)
Spock was and will always be the model for Vulcans. Every actor playing a Vulcan is playing Leonard Nemoy's Spock in some respect. I think that's the point he was trying to get across.
Quote:
Let's not forget, Sarek’s pride would be considered out of character for a Vulcan,
And he begs forgiveness for any lack of control, unlike this character.
As I recal, especially in Amock Time with the old Vulcan woman (can't remember her name) and the third movie with Sarek, Vulcans have been incredibly prideful.
Quote:
and Spock's wife was plotting to have him killed so she could be with the one she...loved? Or perhaps preferred is the better word?
I suggest that you go back and rewatch TOS "Amok Time" and stop guessing or imagining about what happened. There's alot of guessing going on around this place and it shows.
Okay, I watched that episode about a week ago, and I think he's got it right from what I gathered.
Quote:
However if you must have some excuse for T’pol’s behavior then I summit to you that T’pol is very young for a Vulcan,
And where did you get that idea? In ENT "Fallen Hero", the Vulcan Ambassador V'Lar remarks to both Archer and Tucker at a dinner in the Captain's Mess that T'Pol attended, that both men were "most certainly dining with the 2 oldest people on this ship". So guess what? ;-)
What exactly? Just because T'Pol's older than the humans doesn't mean she's wise or fully developed or anything at all really. I can't recal one episode where they made it clear that once a Vulcan is older than a human adult, that's when they get their emotions under control. So guess what? Well, I guess your point is moot.
Quote:
and can not control her self as best as she should, after all when Spock was serving under Captain Pike he appeared to have trouble keeping his emotions under control!
Again, ENT "Fallen Hero" establishes no such thing about T'Pol and in fact V'Lar reads her thoughts and notes that T'Pol had been suppressing disappoinment in her.
Fallen Hero wasn't required to establish anything. The only thing it established is that Vulcans are different that what we might think they are, regardless of weather we like it or not.
Quote:
I know that was during the pilot episode, but as far as I know it is considered cannon, is it not!
No, "The Cage" is NOT considered "canon" because it never aired during the original broadcast of the show and was only made available for airing for the first time on TV, some 20 years after the original TOS broadcast.
Okay, I don't know what the critiria is for a show to be cannon or not, and maybe you're right when you say that a pilot episode is exempt, but I don't see how you can get around "The Menagerie", which has, what (a wild guess here), about 80% of the footage from "The Cage"? I think a lot, if not all of Spock's emotional behavior was preserved in that episode. So yeah, moot point again.
Quote:
Curse me if you like but I have enjoyed Enterprise much more than Next Generation. I must admit that the show would be much better off if it had a bible, instead of this “Were going to get there some how.” attitude B&B have!
And this sentiment has been expressed by many here - ie., this era HAS to be mapped out in order to believeably tell stories during it that will somehow mesh with what will come in the next century.
Yes, fully with you guys on that one.
Quote:
However it is the characters I like best about Enterprise. The only one I am not found of is Hoshi, as opposed to Next Generation where I really enjoyed Worf, and Data. I have respect for Picard, but I could really give a dam about any of the others.
I have seen it written before, but for those of you who object to all the cat suits and sexual situations, I must point out that Kirk was always on the make,
And again, I suggest that you go back and actually WATCH TOS and quit repeating the myths.
It's no myth that Kirk was with a lot of women while commanding the Enterprise; It's Legend.
Quote:
Troy had a plunging neckline,
And a number of men wore skirted uniforms in the first season of TNG like this:
And?
And? And what? Men wearing skirts, Vulcans bein' hoes... it's all good in the Star Trek universe! But seriously, I don't know what your point was there.
Quote:
and I’m sure that all those mini-skirts, and skimpy outfits worn during the original series was done for ethical reasons, and not simply for ratings.
Were you around in the '60s? Apparently not. THAT was the fashion of the '60s that many women WORE, and the only ones citing this sort of thing with the TOS uniforms are people who weren't even born or around at that time or before. It's very obvious. Go look up "Twiggy" and see what she was wearing.
Yeah, and a lot of women are being sexually dominant these days. Again, I don't see the point.
Quote:
Cheers!
You have some Romulan Ale to give those cheers with?
I think Andorian Ale would sit better with me... I have nothing to hide :).
-
Quote:
In no way does his comment allude itself to being refered to everyone here, only to those who can't accept that, despite their own morals and beliefs, a lot of people, including some of the ones on Enterprise, don't find sexuality to be that disturbing. Nor does it require the rituals *they* associate with sexuality. Remember, he's not a writer, so deductive reasoning and giving him the benefit of the doubt would probably be the pertinent thing to do.
But what you miss is that the issue is not sexuality, but it is who it's being done WITH. ;-)
Quote:
When does *anything* automatically make you a nerd? If you wear glasses? If you're into computers? If you're not good at attracting the oposite sex? I guess those are some of the stereotypes... I think another few are being intelligent and having an aptitude for technicality. You're gonna have to be pretty smart and technical to be an engineer. I think his profession is synonimous of some of the "nerd" stereotypes.
Well you just admitted to the stereotypes. Why perpetuate them? ;-)
Quote:
First of all, the word mature is very subjective, and I think everyone has different standards (and thinking that your standards are better than someone else's is very un-Trek of you). In my experience, the beginings of any sexual relationship are rarely "mature", and if they always are for you nowadays, you should try and have a little more fun sometimes!
I refer to how this show has shown such in the past - see ENT "Shadows of P'Jem", ENT "A Night In Sickbay", etc. It's juvenile.
Quote:
Don't get me wrong though, I personally don't like what they did with T'Pol being all jealous and actually having sex with Trip to win the upper hand with him. I was actually thinking that maybe that blob somehow affected the crew.. since it was only engulfing a little past the bridge it didn't effect everyone (including Trip, but not T'Pol, she was on the bridge).
That whole scene was frustrating and stupid because they sat there in it while it impacted ships' systems and the people until such time when they couldn't do anything to get out of it... and finally Archer calls down to Trip to do something. It was just stupid and made Archer and the rest of them look stupid.
All I could think of was Kirk when confronted with Chang in his cloaked ship after he fires on them, and Kirk immediately yells - "Back us off! Back us off!!" And I so wished that Archer had said similar. Oh well...
Quote:
That's how uncharcteristic of a Vulcan she was being... but I have to admit, if I was a writer, and had just got an order from my boss that the network wants Trip and T'Pol to have sex, and I already knew that T'Pol's ark was an ongoing experience of becoming just like humans, the way they wrote it was perfect.
The way it was suggested in TOS "All Our Yesterdays" was perfect but not this.
Quote:
The way T'Pol got jealous of the other woman and what she did to win the upper hand was so incredibly characterisc of the way I've seen *so many* women act, that I have to give it up to the writers and the actors for pulling off what may have been the most uncanon display in Star Trek history in a realisticly human (giving to her ark) way.
HUMAN women. T'Pol is NOT HUMAN. Time to get rid of this character or just reveal her as some Romulan.
Quote:
In a way I was relieved that they didn't make it some kind of disease or anomoly or something that screwed with her mind.
The season ain't over yet. ;-)
Quote:
I think they pushed the envelope too hard, but they had to, they still do, and we gotta deal with it. If they would only push it hard in other directions, then I would be happy.
They don't HAVE to do anything except write GOOD stories. Otherwise more and more of their fanbase will leave.
Quote:
Note that whereever you come from most likely does NOT having the diversity of population that the U.S. has, with respect to races, ethnic groups, cultures, religions, creeds, and so forth. Ie., the U.S. is not a homogenious society. And thus the societal rules reflect a consensus of the general population.
A boob. Forgive me, but when the consensus is that a boob can't be shown but showing senseless violence is commonplace, you just gotta get a little depressed with the state of mind of the general population. I think examples like this are one of the most embarassing aspects of our society.
Well it certainly isn't your place to define people's religions for them and what is acceptable in terms of their beliefs of "modesty". TVH was the most successful film in Trek history and there wasn't a scrap of nudity in it. So I think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion about it being somehow required in a show for it to be successful.
Quote:
And THAT is why it all needs to end. It has gone from Trip to Archer to Reed back to Archer back to Reed and now back to Trip. To the point where the actress recently joked in an interview wondering whether Travis was next. It's a disgrace.
Okay, I think we're all generally agreeing on this one. But just to be the devil's advocate, it is kinda realistic as far as humans go.
She's NOT HUMAN!
Quote:
Both women and men have a long history of being promiscuous, and although we're fed in almost any American drama that our hero's are perfect, in the real world, nobody is. Everyone thinks about other people, especially when they're single and among a lot of people. T'Pol, and just about everyone on the ship as far as I know is a case in point. The only stupid thing is, again, that she's Vulcan. She's not supposed to have sexual feelings for anyone at all... but since that's already thrown out the window, she might as well be a "slut" (which is what you were all alluding to). I like my hero's to have some issues.
I have said in other threads here that the character should have been a Deltan, as Ilia was in TMP. THEN this would not only be consistent with the species, but could have been used to flesh out WHY Deltans had to take an "oath of celebacy" in order to serve on a Star Ship. But they'd rather mess with the very species that has established that their sexuality is suppressed and essentially tied to something similar to salmon returning home to breed.
Quote:
It IS B.S.
Yeah it is B.S. Can we get over it? I can. I don't like it, but I can. And I agree that it wasn't that sleezy in the way it was done. It could have been a lot worse.
What was shown in "Harbinger" by itself was not sleazy IMHO. However the treatment of sex and sexual relations throughout ENT HAS been for pure shock value and cheap tricks and gags. Nothing that relates to the context of the scene.
Quote:
Well he did cry...
NO he did NOT. He had a sad and somewhat grim look on his face and squeezes his eyes shut. But don't confuse HIM with his father Sarek, who DID cry in TNG "Sarek" while listening to Data's performance and suffering from Bendii Syndrome.
Quote:
I mean, sure Picard was giving Spock the thoughts of a very sad man who was very close with him; Spock esentially becoming his father for a moment, and loosing the control his father had lost, but he still cried.
Look. Why don't you pull out the episode or download it. I have the tape in right now and he grimaces and squeezes his eyes shut briefly, but does not shed any tears.
Quote:
Besides, Spock being half human was always used as an excuse. We learned a long time ago through Tuvok especially, that pure bred Vulcans have VERY strong feelings, a lot stronger than humans actually, and they take many, many, years to control masterfully.
Correct, however this T'Pol character has shown inconsistent emotions.
Quote:
Spock was and will always be the model for Vulcans. Every actor playing a Vulcan is playing Leonard Nemoy's Spock in some respect. I think that's the point he was trying to get across.
But Sarek was the FIRST full Vulcan that we met in TOS and offered an alternate view. THAT is my point.
Quote:
Quote:
As I recal, especially in Amock Time with the old Vulcan woman (can't remember her name) and the third movie with Sarek, Vulcans have been incredibly prideful.
T'Pau in TOS "Amok Time" is not "prideful" but simply "logical" stating the facts. Same with Sarek and the rest. The problem is perhaps the "truth" or the "facts" hurt (and the viewer or character considers the statement of such, stripped of unnecessary adjectives, as "pride")?
;-)
Quote:
Okay, I watched that episode about a week ago, and I think he's got it right from what I gathered.
Then I suggest you pull it out and watch it again. T'Pring isn't "plotting" to kill anyone. She tells Spock exactly what she had planned and WHY and what her thought process was and it all boiled down to something that was TRUE. Spock was not planning on giving up his career in Star Fleet to be with her. She says that she didn't want to be the "escort of a Legend". And so within the rules of the rituals and her logic, and further compensating for the fact that Kirk was a variable that wasn't originally in her plan, she assumed that Spock wouldn't have her either way.
But what had to be done would be in order to break the Plak Tow and resolve the Pon Farr so that he wouldn't die. SOME combat had to occur in order to resolve this physiological issue if he couldn't do it through meditation.
Quote:
And where did you get that idea? In ENT "Fallen Hero", the Vulcan Ambassador V'Lar remarks to both Archer and Tucker at a dinner in the Captain's Mess that T'Pol attended, that both men were "most certainly dining with the 2 oldest people on this ship". So guess what? ;-)
What exactly? Just because T'Pol's older than the humans doesn't mean she's wise or fully developed or anything at all really. I can't recal one episode where they made it clear that once a Vulcan is older than a human adult, that's when they get their emotions under control. So guess what? Well, I guess your point is moot.
Um no - he was claiming that she was a "young" Vulcan and based on V'Lar's comment she wasn't at all. In TNG "Lower Decks" we meet a "young Vulcan" (Taurik) and similarly the same actor plays a "young" Vulcan Vorik in VOY. So what are YOU talking about? Your point is moot.
Quote:
Again, ENT "Fallen Hero" establishes no such thing about T'Pol and in fact V'Lar reads her thoughts and notes that T'Pol had been suppressing disappoinment in her.
Fallen Hero wasn't required to establish anything. The only thing it established is that Vulcans are different that what we might think they are, regardless of weather we like it or not.
Um no. That's what it all comes down to doesn't it? Braga's crap. Vulcans were defined by Roddenberry and Fonatan 38 years ago, whether you like it or not. And they are now inconsistent in this show. And what did T'Pau say in TOS "Amok Time" that you claimed you watched "last week"? Where T'Pau would have been a contemporary of T'Pol?
Quote:
No, "The Cage" is NOT considered "canon" because it never aired during the original broadcast of the show and was only made available for airing for the first time on TV, some 20 years after the original TOS broadcast.
Okay, I don't know what the critiria is for a show to be cannon or not,
It is what is originally broadcast on TV or in the theaters, excluding the animated TOS.
Quote:
and maybe you're right when you say that a pilot episode is exempt, but I don't see how you can get around "The Menagerie", which has, what (a wild guess here), about 80% of the footage from "The Cage"? I think a lot, if not all of Spock's emotional behavior was preserved in that episode. So yeah, moot point again.
No it's not moot. Again, the character is HALF HUMAN. And it comes to a point where Spock decides to leave Star Fleet and undergo the Kohlinar ritual just before TMP. So your point is moot.
Quote:
And again, I suggest that you go back and actually WATCH TOS and quit repeating the myths.
It's no myth that Kirk was with a lot of women while commanding the Enterprise; It's Legend.
Why don't you watch the show and see exactly what he was doing and the context of it instead of perpetuating the urban myths. ;-)
Quote:
And?
And? And what? Men wearing skirts, Vulcans bein' hoes... it's all good in the Star Trek universe! But seriously, I don't know what your point was there.
You ask the original poster. He was attempting to compare the gratuity in ENT with supposed similar gratuity in TOS. Not obviously having been alive when TOS originally aired.
Quote:
Were you around in the '60s? Apparently not. THAT was the fashion of the '60s that many women WORE, and the only ones citing this sort of thing with the TOS uniforms are people who weren't even born or around at that time or before. It's very obvious. Go look up "Twiggy" and see what she was wearing.
Yeah, and a lot of women are being sexually dominant these days. Again, I don't see the point.
Ask the poster his point. You cannot compare mini-skirts as uniforms in the '60s, which was the fashion at the time, to the juvenile stuff in ENT where Hoshi loses her top in ENT "Shockwave II" and stands there in front of Reed covering her nipples with her hands.
Quote:
You have some Romulan Ale to give those cheers with?
I think Andorian Ale would sit better with me... I have nothing to hide :).
Perhaps a raktajino instead? ;-)
--------
"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
----
"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
-
So I'll return the favor. ;-)
Quote:
Don't assume that this place is nothing but "little boys"
He never said it was only little boys.
Quote:
Wh oneeds to "grow up" here are the writers who continally make sex and sexual relations, a juvenile subject as it is depicted. There's nothing "mature" at all about how they have handled it in this show. Except perhaps "mature" for the "little boys".
I think they keep the "sexy" stuff a little juvenille so it doesn't get sleazy.
Quote:
I suggest that you go back and rewatch TNG "Unification I & II" and find that you are imagining things. And you should also note that Spock is half Human and this character is not. Or so we can gather. Many of us suspect that she is some mutant Romulan.
I think you completely missed his point on that one. He was saying that Spock overcompensated for his lack of full Vulcan physiology. That made him act "more Vulcan." T'Pol, on the other hand, is not trying to make up for any self assumed shortcomings.
Quote:
And he begs forgiveness for any lack of control, unlike this character.
There are no Vulcans she answers to any longer.
Quote:
In ENT "Fallen Hero", the Vulcan Ambassador V'Lar remarks to both Archer and Tucker at a dinner in the Captain's Mess that T'Pol attended, that both men were "most certainly dining with the 2 oldest people on this ship". So guess what? ;-)
Even a young Vulcan is usually older than a middle aged human.
Quote:
And again, I suggest that you go back and actually WATCH TOS and quit repeating the myths.
This quote is from your reponse to "Kirk was always on the make." Hon, did you watch those episodes? Just about every planet they visited, Kirk was trying to get girls to join his "Lightyear-High Club."
Quote:
That was the fashion of the '60s that many women WORE,"
Yes it was, and they wore it because it was risque. Just as we see girls wearing tight tee-shirts and jeans (or cut offs) that are so skin tight you wonder if there is any room for skin, we now see catsuits.
;-)
-Lem
--------
"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
-
Quote:
So I'll return the favor. ;-)
Quote:Don't assume that this place is nothing but "little boys"
He never said it was only little boys.
From above:
"I have been reading Trekweb for a while now, and it always makes me laugh when the little boys just can’t stand all the “mushy” stuff! What is it about the sight of beautiful women that makes all the nerds cringe, and cry foul? "
Quote:
I think they keep the "sexy" stuff a little juvenille so it doesn't get sleazy.
Why do it at all when it does nothing to develop the character when it's not done in a mature adult fashion?
Quote:
Quote:I suggest that you go back and rewatch TNG "Unification I & II" and find that you are imagining things. And you should also note that Spock is half Human and this character is not. Or so we can gather. Many of us suspect that she is some mutant Romulan.
I think you completely missed his point on that one. He was saying that Spock overcompensated for his lack of full Vulcan physiology.
Spock had undergone the Kolinahr ritual prior to TMP, so he knows the techniques to use to compensate.
Quote:
That made him act "more Vulcan." T'Pol, on the other hand, is not trying to make up for any self assumed shortcomings.
Which is the problem. What was the point of ENT "Fusion" then, when she outright protests that such "experimentation" is dangerous. Yet this is now supposed to be the justification for her behavior at this point. The main problem with Vulcans is their violence when crossed, and this character should have shown that if she were supposedly "jealous" and dropping emotional controls. Yet another inconsistency.
Quote:
Quote:And he begs forgiveness for any lack of control, unlike this character.
There are no Vulcans she answers to any longer.
This has NOTHING to do with who she "answers to" and everything to do with her BIOLOGY. Why is this so hard to understand? This character is NOT Human.
Quote:
Quote:In ENT "Fallen Hero", the Vulcan Ambassador V'Lar remarks to both Archer and Tucker at a dinner in the Captain's Mess that T'Pol attended, that both men were "most certainly dining with the 2 oldest people on this ship". So guess what? ;-)
Even a young Vulcan is usually older than a middle aged human.
Go watch TNG "Lower Decks" and see a "young" Vulcan named Taurik or even VOY and meet Vorik, who undergoes his first Pon Farr in VOY "Blood Fever" as a "young" Vulcan. Contrast with Tuvok who is around or over 100 years old or middle age.
Quote:
Quote:And again, I suggest that you go back and actually WATCH TOS and quit repeating the myths.
This quote is from your reponse to "Kirk was always on the make." Hon, did you watch those episodes?
Hon, I HAVE all of them. What about you?
Quote:
Just about every planet they visited, Kirk was trying to get girls to join his "Lightyear-High Club."
Wrong and you show how stupid you are I'm afaid. I suggest you go and download them somewhere and look at them again.
Quote:
Quote:That was the fashion of the '60s that many women WORE,"
Yes it was, and they wore it because it was risque.
And like myself, they ALSO wore it because it was in the fashion magazines and shown on TV, no different than what has happened in the past and is happening now.
Quote:
Just as we see girls wearing tight tee-shirts and jeans (or cut offs) that are so skin tight you wonder if there is any room for skin, we now see catsuits.
;-)
And so you prove my point exactly.
--------
"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
----
"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
-
Okay, on that last one we were both on the same page and didn't even know it. (The miniskirts and such.) Anyway, I'm tired of "Quoting" so I'll just say what I wanted to say. The thing about little boys... he never said that there were only little boys there. I've watched the TOS episodes... if you don't think that Kirk is more of a womanizer than just about every other Trek character put together, than I dunno gurl. And of course I'm exaggerating about "every planet they visited," but you get the point... and why the need to call me stupid? Anyway, we're getting way off subject here. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed for next week.
--------
"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
----
"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
-
I think they keep the "sexy" stuff a little juvenille so it doesn't get sleazy.
And yet somehow they manage to do both.
There is of course a middle ground between sleazy and juvenile, that would actually portray real relationships.
But that would alienate that portion of the audience whose idea of relationships comes from back issues of X-Men.
Deus has a lot of valid criticisms. Still, with all its faults, I enjoyed "Harbinger". It was fun and fast-paced. T'Pol's jealousy was out of character, but her sexuality experiment with Trip was decidedly Vulcan IMHO. (I thought Trip's bruised male ego was handled well at the end.)
:)
The fight between Reed and Major Hayes lacked build-up, but the fight itself was entertaining and well choreographed...especially for Star Trek. I think the TPTB should have dealt with this Reed/Hayes thing waaaaaay earlier in the season. Still, it was fun.
Harbinger was a good warp-speed ride to the weird side of the galaxy!
--------
Everyone deserves freedom and equality!
-
I agree, this may have been a throw away episode in some regards, but I found myself really enjoying it. I thought the scene with Archer tearing Reed a new one was great and I liked Phlox's scenes as well.
Archer getting a little nasty with the alien was also good character development/support and I found myself enjoying the Trip/T'Pol interactions even if they were a tad simplistic. Guess that supports the fact those two are really decent actors.
-
Quote:
I thought the scene with Archer tearing Reed a new one was great and I liked Phlox's scenes as well.
:) All day today, in my mind, I kept hearing Archer yelling at Reed and Hayes calling them 5 year-olds. It made me laugh all over again!:)
Quote:
I found myself enjoying the Trip/T'Pol interactions even if they were a tad simplistic. Guess that supports the fact those two are really decent actors.
Yeah. I wonder what Enterprise could do with Trip and T'Pol if the show had more than its allotted 38 minutes.
--------
Everyone deserves freedom and equality!
Anyone following enterprise by now would know the trend that this series has so far; 2-3 good episodes followed by a complete stinker that squanders everything the other episodes build up and halts the momentum. Unfortunately, Harbinger was the rain in our parade. Not only the episode was near ridiculous filler episode but got to agree with Deus that the special effects lately on this series are veering quite close to andromeda calibre. I shudder at this thought..better they cann the series than let it be a cheapo brother of Andromeda. And I was expecting a steamy scene between t'pol and trip and what we got was a g-rated act with no erotic tones to it. They cant even do the most looked forward enterprise fling properly too.
Next week is not looking that great either. Not only we have to deal with another filler episode but its a voyager 'The one' rip-off too. Enterprise just cant win.
--------
"The mighty Star Trek would fall before us"-B&B
I can't believe that they let this on the air. Is anyone in charge of Enterprise or does it just happen? There was some interesting dialog between Trip and T'Pol, but that took up about three minutes of the show.
What was this episode about? What was the long confusing lead-in about? This could have been put on by high school students using Halloween make-up kits.
There were some recent top-notch episodes, but this ruined it. Any truth to the rumor that Janet Jackson will be appearing in an upcoming episode?
I, too, was hoping that Enterprise was raising the bar after seeing the last couple of episodes, but then they bring out the nudity and sex for sweeps, and give it more focus than the serious revelation in the episode. Nice.
And once again we have Dr. Phlox willing to do harm at the request of the captain with little complaint (after creating and then murdering Trip's clone against his will in "Similitude"). I guess alien doctors don't need to be concerned with the Hippocratic oath.
I think this episode makes it clear who are the intelligent people and who are not in the writing room.
This was a story by B&B, and it was a story with so much wrong with it. The Reed/MACO tension's only buildup was 14 episodes ago in "The Xindi", and makes no sense without any of this tension existing in between. T'Pol getting jealous of Trip, and eventually breaking out in a bit of a lust-fest was even more ridiculous. The so-called "A-Plot" of the mysterious alien, which hardly seemed to get any screen time, was the only interesting part of the story.
However, the teleplay credit went to Manny Coto, and this man DOES know what he's doing with a typewritter. The crap story that we were given by B&B was counteracted by some of the most clever dialog I can remember hearing on any trek series. Trip and T'Pol bickerring about jealousy is a stupid idea, but the dialog within that was incredibly sharp, with T'Pol repeatedly throwing Trip's own comments back in his face.
The result? An episode that you needed to just go along for the ride if you wanted to enjoy it. The Schitzophrenic writing of pairing Dumb and Dumber with a decent writer led to an episode that, as a whole, was awful, and yet managed to be very good moment to moment. I'm still wrapping my head around how that works.
--------
What did MacBeth think of this post?
"It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing."
I totally agree! There was nothing redeeming about this episode at all. I can't remember seeing a single Trek episode like this that went completely wrong. Deus is right when saying that this was mainly a 'sex for ratings' episode.
The sfx were also extremely cheesy. The goop cloud in outer space looked like something from TOS (in fact, I think they did something like that). The alien makeup looked like someone just taped pieces of green rubber on his face. The music was completely forgettable, too.
This episode really make me ask: who the heck cares about this 'Harbinger'? There was no suspense, no sense of dread produced by this alien in the plot. There was nothing particularly evil, either. He was just an afterthought to the "B" plots of T'Pol-Trip sex and the Reed-Hayes fight. So if he shows up again, who cares? We'll just fry him in the warp core again.
We got so much better than this from the TNG episode where Q introduces the Enterprise to the Borg. Now that was chilling. That was also TNG's 2nd season when all the writers were on strike!!! Harbinger was just plain dumb.
I thought it was fine. I laughed out loud several times. Yeah, the T'Pol sex scene was a bad idea.
On the other hand, her look drinking coffee the next morning when Reed suggests they keep up the acupuncture (or whatever the hell it is) was quite funny.
I also liked the repeated reversals of dialogue. They did it at least three times--once with Reed and Trip, once with T'Pol and Trip, and once with Reed and the Maco guy. Where they'd take what had been said previously and throw it back out. Nice symmetry.
Anyway. I thought it was a fun episode, with a neat little tantalizing story--and I really liked Archer's tirade.
My only quibbles really were that we have no idea what the hell the goop was at the beginning (unless I missed the explanation), that T'pol wouldn't screw Trip, and that something like "a detached retina" on Reed sounds kind of...extreme? I dunno.
Oh, I thought the alien makeup was really cool, too. Dunno what your problem was with that.
--------
"Worlds may change, galaxies may disintegrate, but a woman always remains a woman."
--James Kirk, "The Conscience of the King"
"Vulcan children are never late with their sehlats' dinner."
--T'Pol, "The Forge"
-
The goob was an inersection of spacial anamolies...why it was gooby looking, I don't know.
Why wouldn't T'Pol screw trip? Vulcans do have sex...and not just during Pon'Far.
A detached retina is actually not un-common...I know a few people who've had them, from doing nothing! NOt to difficulty to fix either, some minor eye surgery at the most.
--------
“People who are willing to give up their liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.â€
-Benjamin Franklin
Deus, you have a right to your opinion but you're off the mark, sir. This is heads and shoulders above "A Night in Sickbay." Though I agree with you that more story should be devoted to Trip's sister I am at a loss as to your outrage. People have lives. Even science fiction characters. Yes, Strategem was slightly better but this is hardly a sleazefest.
-
The T'Pol stuff was good, but the Reed stuff seemed off base. When TPTB brought the MACOs on board it was mentioned that tension would brew between Reed's men and these guys but until tonight's episode that tension has been virtually non-existent and then it suddenly blows up?
As with the build-up to the T'Pol stuff tonight, they should've had more scenes earlier on with conflict between the two characters to make tonight's explosion seem more realistic. It was like they forgot about this particular story and didn't want to get called on it like they were for forgetting to put any real tension between the Voyager crew and the Maquis back in that day and so they wrote this episode.
--------
- Steve Lee
http://www.steveleenow.net/
(1)
| 
