Well, I don't think they were THAT bad. I thought the characters had a lot of potential but weren't used as well as they could have been. I still love the crowded noir of DS9 and all the complications and resolutions that arose from it. I think they never found a way to build on that without just repeating the stories of the past and losing a lot of consequence, which is what DS9 had lots of.
Oh, and I really liked Janeway, actually.
First two seasons comprised of more episodes of some shows that make a impact with half a season, then get canceled, if you look at Enterprise's first 13 episodes, are they your favorites, most likley not, now I haven't seen season three, but I get the impression its improving, but basically it means it's one season that should of been the quality of season one, only when the show is looking bad in terms of viewers, they do something, the best thing in this, is hoping berman and braga get fired, the idiots.
...grass roots movement of fans no doubt paid for by Paramount Studios.
Star Trek has become the Howard Dean of science fiction thanks to Rick Berman, Brannon Braga and Paramount's cash cow mentality.
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"It's my duty... It's my duty as a complete and utter bastard."
- Rimmer (Timeslides, Red Dwarf)
"Your gangly attempt at being clever has been futile."
- Dieter (Dieter's Dance Party, Sprockets)
This letter-writing business strikes me as an exercise in futility. Letter campaigns aren't what they used to be--if a show was saved from cancellation back in the '60s, when there were only three networks to choose from, and it had never been done before, well then, that was big news. But take a look around today... there are now dozens of different stations and hundreds of different programs to choose from. I'm not sure Hollywood or the world at large has much interest in keeping TREK alive anymore. And when was the last time a letter-writing campaign to save a TV show did any good? The only two I can think of off the top of my head were for "Starman" back in '86 or '87 and, more recently, for "Farscape." Guess what--both shows got shitcanned anyway.
I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for STAR TREK. The only reason why I don't bother with "Enterprise" is because of Berman & Braga. If UPN finally agrees to bring back ENT for a 4th season, the ONLY way I'll tune in is if they fire B&B and replace them with Harve Bennett or Nicholas Meyer or Ronald D. Moore or Leonard Nimoy or William Shatner or Peter David or ANYONE ELSE who has shown in the past to have a healthy passion and talent for all things TREK. I got suckered into watching the season finale of the 2nd season, "The Expanse." I shut it off after the first 10 minutes. It had DESPERATION written all over it. I tried watching an episode or two this season and the Xindi are so ridiculous and ill-conceived that I just shook my head. I just DON'T CARE for this show, its story arc or its characters. Something tells me I'm not alone on this one.
The ONLY thing that could POSSIBLY save ENT (in my opinion) is nothing short of a complete and total overhaul of production personel. This Xindi nonsense just ain't cuttin' it. They need: A new executive producer, new writers (preferably established sci-fi and TV drama writers), new sets, new costumes, new actors, new production designers... the whole shebang. The only actors I'd keep would be the guys who play Trip, Phlox and Reed. Then, and ONLY THEN, would I even bother tuning into the first 5 minutes of the season opener of Season Four.
I realize it's a tall order. That's why I don't have a lot of faith left for "Enterprise."
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Make note that the one thing that distinguishes the Trek franchise from all those other shows you mention is the BILLION DOLLAR INCOME that comes with the name "Star Trek". As I have noted in another thread, ENT is essentially the "commercial" for "Star Trek" the franchise - the novels, the "Experience" in Las Vegas, the action figures and other toys, the games, the memorabilia, and other money-generating things. NONE of those other shows had such.
And there WERE other "letter writing" campaigns recently that DID work - one was for "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and another for "Touched by an Angel" - the latter of which WAS SIGNIFICANT, particuarly since it was a show on a major network (that happens to be the sister network of UPN). ;-) And that show went on to have 8 more seasons, many of which landed it as a Top 10 show after that post-first season cancellation threat. ;-)
And it was on the air from 1994 - 2003. ;-)
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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I've said many bad things about ENT. It's not because I'm being an overly-picky detail freak show. It's because I DO give a damn. What Shaun says above is exactly right. I want to see good Trek, and if the entire show isn't completely overhauled as he suggests, I believe it should be canceled.
I would truthfully rather not see it if it continues in its current state.
hey all,
im enjoying season 3 of enterprise so far, but does anyone agree with me that when the crew win their war againest the evil xindi. that their ought to be some kind of price, like a bitter sweet victory?
babylon 5 had their lead character do something similar at the end of season 3. any ideas? plus im getting disappointed with the whole trip t'pol thing. i can only only personally imagine t'pol really going for a human like captain picard. any comments? :-)
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in the first season of the show, there seemed to be a dynamic between T'Pol and Trip. It wasn't sexual, but it seemed that they were interested in each other because they kept citing each other on their differences. This is what I think their relationship is founded on, and what I think makes it interesting. T'Pol is probably the first Vulcan to spent so much time isolated with so many of the same Terrans. Of the people she associates with on a regular basis, Trip is the most anti-Vulcan; both in his opinions about them, and how he lives his emotional instinct driven life. I think we have a clear case here of opposites attracting.
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
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"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
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Problem is that what had been building nicely between the two during that first season, was suddenly dropped, and they started T'Pol round and round the mulberry bush. 
. Which broke the entire flow of a relationship. And I wouldn't say that Trip was more anti-Vulcan than Archer. Particularly after ENT "Strange New World". In contrast, Archer was continually threatening to knock Vulcans "on their ass" and other such nonsense.
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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...exactly! I'm glad I wasn't the only one who saw that in the first season. Then, all of the sudden, somebody decided that if she was going to get closer with someone it should be the captain! Whatever, it's back on track now. It just seems to be more natural between her and Trip.
As for anti-Vulcan thing; Even though Trip in the past has been just as negative in dialogue as Archer has (he was constantly in Archer's ear about not trusting them first season), I was more alluding to his fly by the seat of your pants nature vs. T'Pol's very calculated, very logical, very Vulcan nature. But I do remember him softening up a little after that episode.
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
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"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
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Quote:
...exactly! I'm glad I wasn't the only one who saw that in the first season.
The "relationship" in terms of gradually letting go of stereotypes actually started in the premier - ENT "Broken Bow I & II", when the two came to an understanding and compromise about how to go about the mission while Archer was incapacitated. The relationship was further developed in ENT "Strange New World", where at the end, once Trip had been given the antidote to the atmospheric, hallucinogenic pollen, he relates a story about his Vulcan Biology teacher to T'Pol and begins to profess appreciation for the species. And finally, in ENT "Breaking the Ice", the ep title was a double-entendre whereby in addition to Reed and Mayweather literally breaking up ice on the largest comet ever discovered by both Humans and Vulcans, Trip is literally "breaking the ice[y]" cold exterior of T'Pol, having accidently stumbled upon, had translated, and read a personal letter of hers that discussed her impending marriage (I don't want to get into how this whole marriage thing should have occurred with respect to the events of TOS "Amok Time"... but anyway). Throughout ENT "Breaking the Ice", once Trip realizes that he has breached a personal matter with respect to her, he attempts to correct the situation, ending the ep on a very poignant note of understanding. And from that time forward, he has kept his word and hasn't disclosed the contents of that letter to anyone.
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Then, all of the sudden, somebody decided that if she was going to get closer with someone it should be the captain!
And so they bring on ENT "Shadows of P'Jem", where this Vulcan is purposely put into compromising positions for cheap tricks and gags, as she and the Captain attempt to free themselves from their bonds. Fast forward to ENT "Shuttlepod One", and we discover that Reed has fantasies and dreams about T'Pol and even acts on them at the end, much to T'Pol's confusion. Fast forward to ENT "A Night in Sickbay", where the Captain and Chief Medical Officer are made to look like baffoons, with a series of freudian slips of a sexual nature and vivid dreams by the Captain of T'Pol.
This was ALL crap crap crap.
Quote:
Whatever, it's back on track now. It just seems to be more natural between her and Trip.
At this point, I would disagree. The moment was THERE and IMHO, it's gone. It is no longer "natural" but contrived. The attempt at rekindling this "relationship" in ENT "Anomaly", etc., was stiff and now too little, too late. And the major reason was because the types of leisure activities and free time that allowed a friendship to develop further, was brutally ripped away by the droning of characters that are made to state that they "have to complete their mission have to complete their mission have to complete their mission" like a broken record. And so you're left with having to jumpstart with contrived "neuropressure" sessions, which are the ANTITHESIS of ANY Vulcan practice due to the fact that they are supposed to be touch telepaths and thus a touch can initiate a mind-link. And this whole plot progresses into totally unlikely behavior... All apparently being justifed based on the events of ENT "Fusion" and ENT "Stigma", the latter, IMHO, a totally inconsistent and non-canon portrayal of Vulcans.
Quote:
As for anti-Vulcan thing; Even though Trip in the past has been just as negative in dialogue as Archer has (he was constantly in Archer's ear about not trusting them first season), I was more alluding to his fly by the seat of your pants nature vs. T'Pol's very calculated, very logical, very Vulcan nature. But I do remember him softening up a little after that episode.
Actually, I never got that sense from Trip. What I got from him was more to do with some inexperience in the Captain's chair, but he isn't necessarily "fly by the seat of his pants". Note his personality in ENT "Silent Enemy" and his "by-the-book" stance (and argument) with Reed. In fact, I have rarely seen him improvise at all. He is no Scotty or Laforge or Torres. He is quite conservative with respect to most things technical. However he has been shown to have occassional emotional outbursts. But he generally tows the line. And the only time he didn't was in ENT "Cogenitor". But after the previous character development, his decision in that ep seemed inconsistent. In general, he has been shown to be very laid back and casual - and what he was shown as in ENT "The Expanse", was all but forgotten up until ENT "Proving Ground" where he is tweeked about his sister by Shran and is forced to run into that "got to complete the mission got to complete the mission got to complete the mission" scratch in the 3rd season record. ;-)
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
----
"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
Ya know, I was thinking of Voyager the other day; a show had its amazing share of crappy shows, problems and I actually found myself missing the "glory" days of the show. Episodes such as "Year in Hell", "relitivity", That episode with the ship from the federation (W/John Savage), and I started to think how much I actually missed these people. Why would that be? It's obvious now... This was the last Star Trek show to have a scrap of quality and character depth written into it. Since the creation of Enterprise, which has unashamidly (sp?) messed with the established Star Trek Universe, I have felt that this show has almost nothing to do with Star Trek. It is simply someone else's interpretation of Gene's Roddenberry's vision. If this show ends up being cancelled I fully expect the show to end the way it should end.... (Enterprise finale suggestion!) Q shows up in the middle of an episode and informs the valliant crew of the Enterprise that this continuity should never have happened. The Creator if this alternate time line is revealed as "Future Guy" CAPTAIN BRAXTON of the Timeship Relativity!
The bad captain of time has created this time line of Archer and Co. to finally rid the universe of the pesky Captain Janeway and the good ship Voyager! Q reveals the true time line through a virtual tour of said time. While on the tour, Q sends the ship and crew of the Enterprise NX-01 to the future to destroy, once and for all, Captain Braxton. Fortunatly, Archer never has to pull the trigger himself as a failed escape attempt by Braxton ends with the time tripping captain scatering himself across the cosmos while making the mistake of utilizing the Enterprise's prehistoric transporter.
With the evaporation of Captain Braxton, Q sets right the rest of the cosmos and the original Robert April, Pike and Kirk Timeline is restored.
Meanwhile..... the crew of the NX-01 coasts through space wondering why they haven't been evaporated, finally after waiting for there last moments they continue on their way deciding that they quite possibly have been the victim of a cosmic episode of "Punk'd." The exterior shot of the enterprise begins to pull back and continues to pull back until it is reveiled that the universe is in a cube shape being held by...... Q.
"Why not.....?" Q says as he puts the alternate universe on a shelf. the end and the credits roll......
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"It is with our passions, as it is with fire and water, they are good servants but bad masters."
Aesop (620 BC - 560 BC)
"Really Doctor McCoy, you must learn to govern your passions... They will be your undoing."
- Captain Spock (Much later)
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"This was the last Star Trek show to have a scrap of quality and character depth written into it. "
Oh my GOD! Voyager didn't have anything resembling character depth or quality!!!
Enterprise may not be Star Trek at it's best, but it's a million times better then Voyager ever was!!!
Voyager was aweful, and with the sole exception of Seven of Nine, so were it's characters. Janeway was a terrible captain, and the episode quality was beyond bad.
Keep Enterprise going, but bury every last episode of Voyager in a daitch, never to be seen again. People say Enterprise has continuity problems, but Enterprise's continuity has been airtight compared with VOyager's.
DAMN, what a crappy show that was.
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I tend to disagree. I would rather watch the crappiest VOY episode than the best ENT one any day.
But it's really this line that made me sure I disagree with you:
Quote:
Voyager was aweful, and with the sole exception of Seven of Nine, so were it's characters.
I guess you're including her breasts as characters, which in a way disqualifies you to state an opinion on character depth (unless you mean cup size).
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I was refering to the fact that she was the only creative or well written character on the show, and while she may have been overused, she was overused for a reason. That reason was she had a pulse, and the rest of the cast did not.
Seriously, Jeri Ryan was very attractive but didn't need to be thae character was well written and interesting enough that she still would have commanded the screen if someone unattractive played the part.
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This is just exagerration. I've been watching season one in anticipation of my S1 DVD review and the show is very promising. There are plenty of great, well-developed characters. Janeway is infinitely more interesting than Archer, in my opinion. Paris is a Kirk reincarnate and McNeill's performance is delightful. The Doctor is up there with Odo and Quark as one of the most well-conceived characters in TREK history. Tuvok is easily the successor to Spock as a Vulcan character.
So it's just idiotic to say that Seven was the only good character VOY produced.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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Janeway was fool who couldn't captain to save her life. In the first episode she got her crew lost in space, and failed at every turn to get them home. In the end it took her 20 years to get home, and was only able to get her crew home faster and without more casualties through time travel and the intervention of her older self. I think she is easily the worst captain in Trek historyI was a supporter of the idea to put a woman in the captain's chair, but Janeway was an embarasment.
Tuvok was the worst Vulcan we ever saw. A Vulcan is supposed to be unemotional. Tuvok was just cranky. Jolene Blalock plays a Vulcan muchh better then Tim Russ. I like the guy (I've met him at conventions and he is friendly and personable), but he plays a lousy Vulcan.
Paris had a lot of potential early on, but then out of nowhere they revealed he was in love with Belanna (where did THAT come from? The two never even gave a hint of liking each other and then one dat reveal they are in LOVE with each other). After that both characters became boring.
The Doctor was cool in the first season before he turned into self parody.
Harry Kim seemed like he was only there to be Paris's buddy.
Chakotay was just boring (but I admired Robert Beltran's guts to say it like it is at conventions)
Belana...well Ron Moore once said that Braga told him "We gave up on her" so I think that speaks volumes.
Neelix was amusing.
I hated these characters, and Seven was a breath of fresh air when she was inttoduced. There wasn't another character on the crew that I cared about. Even Seven turned into self parody by the end, but when she was first introduced she was the only character on the show with a pulse.
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Not that I agree with everything else (I just don't have time), but one thing here caught me, and I have to respond.
I thought Tim Russ played a damn good Vulcan.
Old Pouty-Lips Blalok could learn a thing or two.
P.S. I still think Seven was the worst character on VOY.
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Janeway was fool who couldn't captain to save her life. In the first episode she got her crew lost in space, and failed at every turn to get them home. In the end it took her 20 years to get home, and was only able to get her crew home faster and without more casualties through time travel and the intervention of her older self. I think she is easily the worst captain in Trek historyI was a supporter of the idea to put a woman in the captain's chair, but Janeway was an embarasment.
Tuvok was the worst Vulcan we ever saw. A Vulcan is supposed to be unemotional. Tuvok was just cranky. Jolene Blalock plays a Vulcan muchh better then Tim Russ. I like the guy (I've met him at conventions and he is friendly and personable), but he plays a lousy Vulcan.
Paris had a lot of potential early on, but then out of nowhere they revealed he was in love with Belanna (where did THAT come from? The two never even gave a hint of liking each other and then one dat reveal they are in LOVE with each other). After that both characters became boring.
The Doctor was cool in the first season before he turned into self parody.
Harry Kim seemed like he was only there to be Paris's buddy.
Chakotay was just boring (but I admired Robert Beltran's guts to say it like it is at conventions)
Belana...well Ron Moore once said that Braga told him "We gave up on her" so I think that speaks volumes.
Neelix was amusing.
I hated these characters, and Seven was a breath of fresh air when she was inttoduced. There wasn't another character on the crew that I cared about. Even Seven turned into self parody by the end, but when she was first introduced she was the only character on the show with a pulse.
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Gee-whiz, and I was hoping for reaction to my idea for the Enterprise Series finale.... ah well. :)
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"It is with our passions, as it is with fire and water, they are good servants but bad masters."
Aesop (620 BC - 560 BC)
"Really Doctor McCoy, you must learn to govern your passions... They will be your undoing."
- Captain Spock (Much later)
Why are people rallying to save a crappy show? They should be rallying to cancel it, as it is an embarassment to us, and all Star Trek that came before!
Perhaps then we can move on to better things for ST.
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Quote:
Perhaps then we can move on to better things for ST.
This is definitely my favorite line. Talk about delusional. There isn't a producer out there waiting to produce a new, sixth, "better" ST series because he's distraught about the state of Trek. There is no rescuer waiting in the wings. Producers have to shell out their OWN money. They want a guaranteed return on their investment. You know what that means in this environment, kids? It doesn't mean a sixth Trek series after the fifth is cancelled prematurely.
A guaranteed return on a producer's investment means reality TV, boys and girls. No rescuer of Trek is waiting in the wings except the fans who would like to save it. At this point nothing would satisfy the most rabid Trek "purists." Of that I'm convinced. The fact that Americans make a ratings winner out of American Idol and "My Big Fat Obnoxious Fiancée" is the embarrassment. That's what coming down the pike. America's Top Model. More American Idol. More Bachelor and Bachelorette. More Average Joe.
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Canceling Enterprise IS moving on to something better. If there is no Trek after that, so be it. We will still be in much better shape.
And as far as, "at this point nothing would satisfy the most rabid Trek 'purists.' Of that I'm convinced," how about good writing and acting? Not to mention music that isn't so watered down, dreary, and dull.
ENT is most definitely NOT worth the effort at this point.
And yes, I do find reality shows more than awful, and a sign of the dumbing-down of society as a whole, but it sure as hell doesn't make up fo the way ENT is attempting to dumb-down the Trek audience. Just because people are making those shows popular, it doesn't mean Trek has to take some 'new' approach, ruining what ST is by emulating the other crap on tv.
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Based on what's been said in the posts here, I think those who want the show gone and those who want to save it are both motivated by the same thing: their love for Star Trek. The latter wants to hang on to any reincarnation, overlooking its weaknesses, appreciative of the fact that there is any Star Trek on the air at all, especially in a wasteland of less deserving shows. But the former would rather have less Star Trek as long as it's good Star Trek, than more Star Trek that's mediocre, because it cheapens the Star Trek mythos as a whole. I have to count myself with them, though I probably wouldn't say it with as much venum as some have. I save that for the Greed that milked this franchise—its writers, its producers, its fans, and it's good name—to the point where it can only produce a watery version of its past greatness.
The Grand Old Lady doesn't need "a rescuer waiting in the wings", she needs a well deserved nap.
First, even if I had extra cash lying around, I wouldn't be flushing it down the toilet on newspaper ads for a freaking t.v. show that should have been canceled at the end of season #1.
Second, it would help their ad's credibility if any of it's claims were actually true -
>>"Now, with new arc-driven stories that often >>examine the troubling issues of our own time
Please. Enterprise's plots barely rise to the level of superficial. The social commentary (and I use the phrase loosely) is shallow and hamfisted.
>>ENTERPRISE has reinvigorated its appeal to its >>audience
Completely untrue according to the ratings, as many have pointed out. If Enterprise were suddenly doing TNG-like numbers, then I'd say it had been reinvigorated.
>>recaptured the praise of media critics
And what media critics would those be? Even TV Guide has been critical of Enterprise. Mainstream critics fogot about Enterprise a long time ago. Are they referring to the various no-name "I have my own geocities website" Trek online critics that populate internet? Sorry, I don't count them.
>>and is reengaging the interest of former STAR TREK >>fans.
Again, not according to the ratings. The ratings issue is beyond debate now folks. If the ratings really weren't as bad as they seem, if there really was a legitimate way to spin the statistics in a positive direction, then Trek wouldn't be in as much trouble as it is now. The people in charge of the programming at UPN, Viacom & Paramount KNOW that the ratings are bad and that the show is underperforming.
And I take issue with referring to those not watching Enterprise as "former" Trek fans. Excuse me - I'm a Star Trek fan, have been for years and continue to be so. But I'm NOT an Enterprise fan. I find the show boring and juvenile. The Xindi storyline simply doesn't interest me, and beyond that I find not a single one of the characters compelling enough to care what happens to them. I haven't traded in my fandom membership card because of that. I continue to buy the DVD sets, and I watch TNG and TOS and DS9 on t.v. when I can. I'll even sit and watch a Voyager episode here and there. But Enterprise just isn't worth my valuable time.
>>The show has hit its stride and is gathering >>momentum to fulfill its enormous potential and >>emerge as a bona fide classic series.
The show is a bland, neutered bore. The Xindi arc was created because the show was adrift and clueless for the first two seasons. And once the Xindi arc is finished, the ship & crew will have to return home where the creative team will again have to figure out what to do with this ship of cardboard cut-outs. That's a dilemma they weren't able to solve before, and it's not something they will be able to solve now, because they've given up on Trek continuity. Eugenics Wars? Nope, abandoned that. Romulan War? Nope, no sign that we'll ever see that. Founding of the Federation? Haven't taken a single step in that direction in 3 years. Wasn't that supposed to be the entire point of the show?
Enterprise from the very beginning was a "gimmick" - you got to see the "first" of everything. The first transporter. The first phase pistol. The first encounter with Klingons. But once they ran out of "first" gimmicks, they had no idea what to do afterward.
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Are they referring to the various no-name "I have my own geocities website" Trek online critics that populate internet? Sorry, I don't count them.
I'm sure that just cause you don't count them means they don't count.
>>I watch TNG and TOS and DS9 on t.v. when I can. I'll even sit and watch a Voyager episode here and there. But Enterprise just isn't worth my valuable time.
The worst episode of Enterprose os more deserving of your valuable time then the best episode of Voyager.
>> Eugenics Wars? Nope, abandoned that. Romulan War? Nope, no sign that we'll ever see that. Founding of the Federation? Haven't taken a single step in that direction in 3 years. Wasn't that supposed to be the entire point of the show?
[eq]
The Eugentics War was in 1996. Why would we see that on Enterprise, a show that takes place in the 22nd Century??
It's not TIME for the Romulan war yet.
We HAVE seen steps towards the founding of the Federation, most notably being Archer's continued developing relationship with the Andorians, who will go on to become founding members.
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Are they referring to the various no-name "I have my own geocities website" Trek online critics that populate internet? Sorry, I don't count them.
I'm sure that just cause you don't count them means they don't count.
>>I watch TNG and TOS and DS9 on t.v. when I can. I'll even sit and watch a Voyager episode here and there. But Enterprise just isn't worth my valuable time.
The worst episode of Enterprose os more deserving of your valuable time then the best episode of Voyager.
>> Eugenics Wars? Nope, abandoned that. Romulan War? Nope, no sign that we'll ever see that. Founding of the Federation? Haven't taken a single step in that direction in 3 years. Wasn't that supposed to be the entire point of the show?
[eq]
The Eugentics War was in 1996. Why would we see that on Enterprise, a show that takes place in the 22nd Century??
It's not TIME for the Romulan war yet.
We HAVE seen steps towards the founding of the Federation, most notably being Archer's continued developing relationship with the Andorians, who will go on to become founding members.
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... is people who rain on others parade. You don't like the show? Fine. No problem with that. Why fan the flames, though? Why, if you don't like it, do you have to add to the dissent? You're only making things worse for those of us who do enjoy the show.
The whole purpose of the full page ad was to show that maybe the ratings system is flawed. Of all the people who currently have a Neilsen box on their television, isn't there a chance that a lot of them just happen to not be Star Trek fans? Though statistically not probable, it is far from impossible.
I dunno... it just seems like a lot of you feel cheated by the fact that the show wasn't exactly what you thought it was going to be. I keep hearing all this talk about how you can't love these characters... how long did it take for you to love Worf, or Troi; Odo, or Sisko? Did you even "love" them at all? You want the founding of the Federation? Well for those of you who are screaming about continuity, that and the Romulan War aren't supposed to happen for a couple years still... give them a chance to tell the story!
The recent events involving the Andorians are really going to unfold interestingly, I have a feeling. I'm already hooked on this show, and it really keeps getting better. I'll be the first to admit they've cranked out a few clunkers, but just remember the episode where Data is the "Sun God" and Picard is the "Moon God..."
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"A billion robot lives are about to be extinguished! Oh, the Jedis are going to feel this one..."
-Hubert Farnsworth (Futurama: Crimes of the Hot)
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"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!"
-Shran (ENT: Proving Ground)
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...is that people STILL don't get it that this board is for people to VOICE THEIR OPINIONS (that includes good AND bad).
As far as:
Quote:
You don't like the show? Fine. No problem with that. Why fan the flames, though? Why, if you don't like it, do you have to add to the dissent? You're only making things worse for those of us who do enjoy the show.
My take is: You like the show? Fine. No problem with that. Why fan the flames, though? Why. if you like it, do you have to add the praise? You're only making things worse for those of us who want this embarassing excuse for a Trek show off the air.
You see? People have differing opinions. If all that this board showed was praise for something, it would be quite boring, and, quite literally, a lie.
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I have to agree with the point about the ending of the Xindi arc - which will be soon according to Bakula. Just as the series is finding it's feet, they decide to pull the rug from under it by ending what's making it half-way-decent? I just don't get it. Whatever they replace it with is going to seem like a down-shift and back to the same ol' same ol., cos how many times can they put Earth in imminent danger and play the 'race against time' card?
I also have to agree about not giving a damn about any of the characters. None of them have been written with anything to grasp hold of, to love, to care about, to invest in. What little 'character development' there is is forced, is show not tell, and has had more to do with sexing up the show and the ratings than with giving us good background/details on what really makes these characters tick. They do touch on things (for example, Tucker/Reed in 'Shuttlepod One' was really going somewhere in the friendship stakes), but that all seems to have been airlocked to give space to the forced Trip/T'Pol 'Lust In Space' gimmick. What about Archer's one-on-one team-building with Reed? Hoshi? Phlox? Mayweather? Where is all their team-building with one another? For example, beyond that all too obvious lesbian titillation scene on the listing Klingon Cruiser, I don't think T'Pol and Hoshi have said more than 50 words to each other - and all of them have been 'Bridge info type stuff. No actual interaction. Where is all that? Some eps, I'm surprised (insert name here) doesn't say, "Hey, you... you, Oriental girl, what's your name again?"
I don't know what Jeri Taylor and Michael Piller had that Berman and Braga don't have, but something is definitely missing from "Enterprise" for me. And I think it's that gimmicks/nudity/lust/anger/shock tactics have replaced good story-telling and great characterisation. I know all Treks have used gimmicks/nudity/lust/anger/shock tactics, but the difference is that they were almost accidental to what mattered and what made previous Treks so watchable. Those things weren't why the episodes were made, with weak story and weak characterisation being used as filler. It was the other way around : Great story, great characterisation *AND THEN* with the filler stuff.
I wish it works... But eventually, we will have to donate enough money to produce the series on our own. Dumb world.
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Same here, if it works show Trek fans are still heard by Paramount and UPN. I've become a regular viewer this season, after bashing it for the last two seasons, It should be able to finish like any other series or at least to a fifth season. I wish the die-hard Enterprise fans luck in this quest to save this fifth star trek series. I know if TNG was in this type of trouble I would help to keep it on tv.
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You know, I didn't care for the first few episodes of the first season and basically stopped watching, but I started watching again near the end of the second and I've caught most of the episodes this season. Even members of my family have sat down to watch with me, and a number of my friends who had also stopped watching have started watching again. And none of us are a part of the ratings system.
You'd think that with today's technology they could program TV's to send back a signal telling cable companies exactly what you are watching at anyone time. So that everyone's a part of the ratings system, just not a small minority. Then they'd know everytime a commercial comes on, I'm flipping around to see what else is on lol.
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- Steve Lee
http://www.steveleenow.net/
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What a complete waste of money.
It's too bad they couldn't give the entire $3,664.80 to The Elizabeth Glaser Pediatric AIDS Foundation. It would have been much more useful.
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PAY ATTENTION! Listen to DemocracyNow! , AirAmericaRadio and CrooksandLiars - Where the REAL truth hurts everyone!
I don't understand what they've seen that has inspired such loyalty. Author and writer Warren Ellis said recently that Trek fans just watch ENT, which features lightly revised episodes from previous Treks, for comfort.
I'm not certain he's wrong.
Victor
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I agree, It's sad to be so loyal to bad written tripe just because it mistakenly has the "Star Trek" logo on it. It is a dark day in the universe.....
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"It is with our passions, as it is with fire and water, they are good servants but bad masters."
Aesop (620 BC - 560 BC)
"Really Doctor McCoy, you must learn to govern your passions... They will be your undoing."
- Captain Spock (Much later)
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Well....if Warren Ellis said that then by all means they should quit trying to save ENT from cancellation. I must have missed the announcement that Warren Ellis' opinion became gospel. I don't know what's worse, fans who piss all over someone else's parade (you don't like it? Fine. Don't watch. Don't contribute, no one's forcing you) or "sci fi authors" and former Trek this and that who suddenly feel the need to piss all over ENT fans. Why does Warren Ellis care? No skin off his nose. What is with this pathological need to bring someone else down?
This most certainly isn't organized by the production staff. Obviously none of you have met Anita. She's quite real and she's not employed by UPN.
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Well, like always in a Trek forum, I'm sure the motive of some IS just to take a piss. But I must disagree with you that those who dislike the show should remain silent so those who like it can feel better about it. If the criticisms were gratuitous or completely unfounded that would be one thing. After all, even the best Star Trek shows and movies have their pointless critics. But I'm afraid there's plenty in ENTERPRISE for a reasonable person, even a reasonable fan, to criticize. That doesn't mean the show can't redeem itself, or that it hasn't improved somewhat already. But more than likely positive changes won't occur without constructive fan feedback. If the fans don't speak out when their loyalty is abused, their patronage assumed, then Star Trek will never be as good as it can be or once was. If it carries the Star Trek name, it shouldn't be mediocre drama. It cheapens what the name Star Trek means. That's my opinion. Now, those who think ENTERPRISE is worth the trouble of saving through pro-active means like this ad or whatever, you have my blessing. It's a free country. But that's different than saying those who don't should stay quiet.
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Thank you from one of the Old Trekkie Growlers who feel betrayed by the Powers That Be. That was perfect.
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"It is with our passions, as it is with fire and water, they are good servants but bad masters."
Aesop (620 BC - 560 BC)
"Really Doctor McCoy, you must learn to govern your passions... They will be your undoing."
- Captain Spock (Much later)
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There isn't that much loyalty to this show. For all we know, people on the production staff financed this. At best, it's just a few fans with money to kill. But the ratings show, it's simply not reality.
I don't know how I feel about this.
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JOKE OF THE CENTURY!!!
When asked how Gene Roddenberry would feel, about Berman's handling of Trek...since his death. Berman responded, "I think he'd be very pleased. I think he'd be proud of what we're doing."
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They should save their money, or use it on an ad campaign to get Berman fired...
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"It's a sexual contract rooted in monogamy, patriarchy and the preservation of private property that historically hasn't worked very well for, oh, women. It's increasingly obsolete and fails to reflect the way most Americans live. And its most vocal proponents--gay and straight--dress it up in all sorts of romantic nonsense that's deeply offensive to single people. They'd have you believe that it's the best and only way to love, have sex, become an adult, rear children and form a household."
Richard Kim on marriage
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They could spend money all they want, but they are a minority. A VAST minority. They made an ad before, and the ratings went down.
If they represented a real contingent of Trek fans, the ratings would simply be higher.
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