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News Tribblets

Nov 23 | Chuck returns to NBC with a special two-hour show on Sunday, Jan 10, 2010, before returning to its regular time slot, Mondays at 8pm on the following night. It's return to prime time television can be attributed to a successful fan renewnal campaign last year. CHUCK is a one-hour, action-comedy series that follows Chuck Bartowski (Zachary Levi, "Less Than Perfect") -- a computer geek who is catapulted into a new career as the government's most vital secret agent. This upcoming season will include some special guest stars, including Brandon Routh of "Superman Returns" who will play CIA agent Daniel Shaw in an episode, and the addition of SUBWAY restaurant as a major advertiser to the show. Chuck averaged a 4.0/6 rating last season, about eight percent better than the recently cancelled "Trauma". Ratings-challenged Heroes moves back an hour when Chuck returns on Monday nights. STAR TREK VOYAGER's Robert Duncan McNeill serves Chuck as a supervising producer and director.

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Nov 17 | Originally hired as co-executive producer to help with the second half of the show's first season, Kevin Murphy has now taken the reins of Caprica, the Battlestar Galactica prequel on Syfy, according to The Hollywood Reporter. He now serves as an executive producer along with Ronald D. Moore, David Eick and Jane Espenson and oversees the day-to-day functions of the show.

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Nov 12 | Star Trek star Zachary Quinto is loosely attached to star in the romantic dramedy Whirligig, reports Risky Business.Quinto would play the lead role in the independent Canadian film, which is aiming to shoot early next year. The movie centers on a man who, in a misguided attempt to woo an older woman, befriends the woman's adopted son.Chaz Thorne is directing the pic, based on a screenplay by Michael Amo, creator of the Canadian supernatural series "The Listener."

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Nov 11 | The CNS Foundation, is hosting an on-line charity auction at www.charitybuzz.com.   One of the items they are auctioning is a signed movie poster of the new Star Trek movie which has all the cast members and writers.  The president of our organization is Carol Abrams, JJ's mother,  and she arranged for the donation from Bad Robot Production Company.  J.J. Abrams is also a major donor to their organization. The funds raised will go to help find a cure to neurological disorders in children.  The auction link is here.

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Nov 10 | Candice Bergen, Charles Lisanby, Don Pardo, Gene Roddenberry, Tom and Dick Smothers and Bob Stewart have been selected as the next inductees into the Television Academy's Hall of Fame. They will be honored at a Jan. 20 ceremony at the Beverly Hills Hotel. "This year's inductees have challenged and shaped popular culture, changed television for the better and entertained us royally while doing so," TV Academy Chairman-CEO John Shaffner said. More info at the Hollywood Reporter

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News Story

Features

Rick Berman Says Consequences Coming for Archer, Plus Trinneer Talks 'Trip' Romance (SPOILERS)

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By Steve Krutzler / 14:44, 7 January 2004 / Enterprise

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Producer Rick Berman talks in the latest issue of the STAR TREK Communicator about ENTERPRISE's upcoming spring slate of new episodes. We previously reported on his "Harbinger" comments (story) and further remarks reveal that some big changes could be in store as season three rolls toward a conclusion.

"'Hatchery' deals with the discovery of a crashed Xindi-Insectoid ship with an intact hatchery of eggs of Xindi-Insectoids," Berman explains about the February 25th episode, "and a certain obsession that Archer suddenly takes on in terms of his desires to keep these eggs alive."

The executive drops another big spoiler next, suggesting that the captain's questionable tactics since embarking on this new mission may come to a head.

"That is an episode that is going to result in a mutiny," Berman finishes in reference to "Hatchery."

The producer also talks about the status of the writing staff, which seems to have found a successful addition in new co-executive producer Manny Coto ("Similitude").

"With the addition of Manny Coto, it makes life much easier; Manny is a terrific writer," he says. "Chris Black is a terrific writer. We have two co-executive producers who can turn out good scripts and rewrite good scripts. For Brannon [Braga] and me it is really a question of having a team that we can work with, as opposed to have to write a bunch of them ourselves."

Even so, Berman and Braga have been credited with two teleplays this season, "The Xindi" and "Carpenter Street," and Berman says the writing partnership with Brannon is professionally satisfying.

"I think the writing process is the most rewarding," he says. "When Brannon and I are writing it is a very focused process and it is the most rewarding part of my job."

Elsewhere in issue #148 of the Communicator, Connor Trinneer hints at a romantic turn in "Harbinger" (airing February 11th).

"Jolene [Blalock] and I had to find the truth of that [blossoming relationship between 'Trip' and 'T'Pol'] and how that gets created," the actor reveals. "We have had a lot of conversations about it. In fact, we shot 'the day after' scene first before we shot the rest of it. We had a lot of conversations about how we could stay true to our characters, and Jolene has the tough job in terms of how to rationalize that with the character traits that are Vulcan."

Trinneer talks about his recent engagement, his opinion on bad publicity, and his acting career in the full interview. Check out issue #148 for more of both interiews.



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Just.... | Report this post to moderator
By: Romanjr1 (Odo's file, contact) @ 02:28:38 on Jan 08, 2004

I have found reading the post here very amusing for more reasons than I can get into.
Let me say however most of you have it wrong, Remember one thing Vulcan’s have a very Victorian attitude towards sex we only know of the 7 year mating bit from TOS it’s Movies, TNG, DS9 and VOY not to mention the Vulcan way of being. You all seem to forget in these your “Pure Trek” Shows there have always been reference to or shown examples of Vulcan’s who don’t fallow the “Logical Path” in fact as stated in early shows and Movies there are those who out right reject or don’t Fully comply with it don’t forget Vulcan’s don’t Lack emotion or don’t know what it is to feel they Repress Emotion and put logic to there feeling where emotion plays no part.

However, if you don’t agree with this Remember Vulcan’s have Married other Species and Mated with them and most if not all of them don’t wait 7 years to get down and dirty with there loved ones!

As for the way the show is presented I will admit there are Elements that are not true to form but hardly worthy of the “Destruction of Trek as we Know it” Title you are branding it with, You all are forgetting one major fact this show in it’s time line is the before before Picture of the Trek that is to Come Hell if things weren’t Different I’d be really Pissed at the Show, It’s all about growing each generation will always have things in common but will also be different than from the one before it right, Maybe not so much different than the one that came before but certainly the further you go back the greater most of those differences become.

And for those of you who have a Problem with the Trip/T'Pol Paring let me remind you of one thing “It’s a Captains World in Trek” aside from the finale hours of DS9 what captain in Trek has ever been or Close to one significant other The captains are always Single to get the Girl or Guy in one case. Or you could just stop watching Buy the DVD’s of the other shows and live with just that


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Still more spin from a delusional old man | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:31:40 on Jan 07, 2004 | Edit History (2)

Quote:""and a certain obsession that Archer suddenly takes on in terms of his desires to keep these eggs alive."

The reason better be to do some research on their species. Seeing how they are at war with them. If not then whatever idea he has will seems stupid. Unless he is just hungry and hasn't ate in days.


Quote:"questionable tactics since embarking on this new mission may come to a head.

There will be consequences for being a bad clone of Captain Kirk. I would what it will be?


Quote:""That is an episode that is going to result in a mutiny," Berman finishes in reference to "Hatchery."

Is this mutiny because Archer won't share the eggs for breakfast with the rest of the crew??? Oh yes, sounds like good "team work" on the ship. More "Fasinating B&B" dribble.


Quote:"With the addition of Manny Coto, it makes life much easier; Manny is a terrific writer," he says. "Chris Black is a terrific writer. We have two co-executive producers who can turn out good scripts and rewrite good scripts.

Translation............
"We always hear about these people called "good writers" but Brannon and I have never seen any. So it is great to see real writers with real talent do that crazy thing call "writing". Maybe someday we will both grow up and be writers too. Wouldn't that be great! You see new and exciting things each day!!


Quote:"For Brannon [Braga] and me it is really a question of having a team that we can work with, as opposed to have to write a bunch of them ourselves."

Translation
"It is great to see these guys come in and save our asses. It is great to finally see someone who can actually write something that people want to watch. Lord knows Brannon and I haven't and we certain don't have a clue what we are doing and man did it show in the beginning of these stinky series."


Quote:""I think the writing process is the most rewarding," he says. "When Brannon and I are writing it is a very focused process and it is the most rewarding part of my job."

Too bad nobody else finds them rewarding. Just annoying pieces of shit. With the success of non B&B episodes it is clear they shouldn't write for Star Trek again. Both are talentless.


Quote:"Jolene [Blalock] and I had to find the truth of that [blossoming relationship between 'Trip' and 'T'Pol'] and how that gets created," the actor reveals. "We have had a lot of conversations about it.

In other words this is the stupid spot of the story where typical "soap opera" crap meets poorly directed desperate "Sci Fi". It is safe to assume that these segments of the episode are where fans can go get a bite to eat or take a piss. That way we can enjoy the commericals!


Quote:"In fact, we shot 'the day after' scene first before we shot the rest of it. We had a lot of conversations about how we could stay true to our characters, and Jolene has the tough job in terms of how to rationalize that with the character traits that are Vulcan."

"The Day after etc" means the two have filmed the sex scene. Ok big deal! Welcome to "Baywatch For The Stars". Now would someone like to tell us how they are going to explain this CONTINUITY ERROR (that has been KNOWN FOR 35 YEARS) of "7 year mating cycle" being disregarded after Trip bangs the vulcan slut?



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  • RE: Still more spin from a delusional old man(LOL!!) | Report this post to moderator
    By: Blessedwith3 (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 21:45:57 on Jan 07, 2004

    Dude, after I was done almost falling off my chair from laughing, I printed your translation off and had it bronzed for posterity. That was too too much. The truth in your statements makes an old trekker ache in my betrayed bones. thanks for the laugh!


    --------

    "It is with our passions, as it is with fire and water, they are good servants but bad masters."
    Aesop (620 BC - 560 BC)

    "Really Doctor McCoy, you must learn to govern your passions... They will be your undoing."
    - Captain Spock (Much later)


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  • RE: Still more spin from a delusional old man | Report this post to moderator
    By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:45:15 on Jan 07, 2004

    You're just a caricature of an ENTERPRISE basher now. I mean, we can all admit that ENT has had some big missteps over these early years, but let's also not forget that Brannon Braga has a Hugo Award for writing STAR TREK and although the ratings have declined, Rick Berman has been at least half of the creative team behind three TREK series since Roddenberry died, the most successful television franchise ever. Your hyperbolic statements are just plain silly and diminish any reasonable criticisms that might be buried in there.

    --------

    It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!

    Halen. "The Dream is Over."


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    • RE: Still more spin from a delusional old man | Report this post to moderator
      By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:48:51 on Jan 07, 2004

      Steve I was kidding......the eggs for breakfast come on!

      What is this O'Deus is the only one that can lay down dark humour?


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      • RE: Still more spin from a delusional old man | Report this post to moderator
        By: Steve Krutzler (Odo's file, contact) @ 06:49:39 on Jan 08, 2004

        Considering your track record for criticizing ENT and Berman and Braga, I thought your post was right in line with your regular opinion and not a joke.

        --------

        It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!

        Halen. "The Dream is Over."


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  • RE: Still more spin from a delusional old man | Report this post to moderator
    By: Trekker NX-01 (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:56:08 on Jan 07, 2004

    All I can say is that it is going to get very interesting on Enterprise and I don't intend to miss a single episode. I'm even trying to get my co-workers to tune in on wednesday night. The only thing that concerns me however is the relationship between T'Pol and Trip. I always thought Archer had feelings for T'Pol, maybe this was my imagination. Anyway, it should be very interesting.


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    • RE: Still more spin from a delusional old man | Report this post to moderator
      By: dewleaf (Odo's file, contact) @ 02:03:25 on Jan 08, 2004

      last season, Captain Archer admitted to T'Pol his feelings for her. I got the feeling then that she recipricated those feelings but, couldn't give in to them because of their rank & duty as officers.


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    • RE: Still more spin from a delusional old man | Report this post to moderator
      By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:26:02 on Jan 07, 2004

      Quote:"The only thing that concerns me however is the relationship between T'Pol and Trip."

      Are you just concerned over that? What about their hair and make up? What is he going to wear when he nails her? Do you think she should tell him about her crush with Mayweather? What about that little lesbo incident when she was in College? Then there is trip and his little gay romp with Reed on Risa. I wonder how that is going to play out? Do you think it will be a serious relationship because lets face it T'pol is not getting any younger...........


      Just listen to yourself. You sound like one these bored housewives who have kept General Hospital and the rest of day time soaps on the air for over 35 years. Instead of getting Trek fans back Berman has tapped into the "Bored housewife" demographic. WAY TO GO RICK!!!!!!!!!

      If these doesn't prove that ENT is NOT Star Trek. Nothing does.



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      • RE: Still more spin from a delusional old man | Report this post to moderator
        By: Trekker NX-01 (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:29:24 on Jan 07, 2004 | Edit History (1)

        Jeez, what is wrong with you? I only said the relationship concerns me because I had thought that Archer might have feelings for T'Pol, but it is now plain that the producers have decided to soften the image of the vulcans or at least T'Pol. Come on admit it, T'Pol is not the warmest character. Lighten up, enjoy the show. By the way, I have always been a star trek fan (since age five, about fifteen years) and I do not watch soap operas.


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        • RE: Still more spin from a delusional old man | Report this post to moderator
          By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:31:45 on Jan 07, 2004

          Quote:
          Jeez, what is wrong with you? I only said the relationship concerns me because I had thought that Archer might have feelings for T'Pol, but it is now plain that the producers have decided to soften the image of the vulcans or at least T'Pol.

          What is there to "soften"? What has happened is that the creators envisioned a 1-dimensional skeletal shell of what Vulcans were, based on a sloppy review of only a few characters in past Treks, and then exaggerted their distortion, and used it as a "template" for the Vulcans in ENT. And then they tell the fans that these were supposedly "Vulcans from an earlier society" who may have had different "social" practices from what we knew... or some such nonsense. And this resulted in the mess that you saw in the premier. And so now they want to "soften" this false image they created by making the characters even more inconsistent? To the point where this behavior will be inconsistent not only within the original distortion created for the show, but even more inconsistent with the previous characterization in other Treks as well.

          In ENT "Fallen Hero", at the very beginning, Archer is half-choking on his meal at a comment by T'Pol (that occurred offscreen) regarding her assessment that the crew was suffering from "a lack of sexual activity". And Archer asks her what made her think that. And she indicated that it was because of Star Fleet regulations prohibiting fraternization.. And Trip jumps in to remind her that the regs didn't apply to her and asks if she had been "suffering". And she very matter-of-factly states "On Vulcan we only mate once every 7 years". And eventually this little piece of information is reiterated in "Fusion" (and this was the established canon for Vulcans in Trek for the other series EXCEPT that the topic of "mating" was OFF LIMITS for mention, let alone discussion. It was a very private matter).

          But of course because of the way her dialog was crafted, since T'Pol is not literally "on Vulcan", that will be the opening to have her violate her supposed Vulcan physiology, part from known canon AND consistency as established in other series, and hump her brains out with the crewman-of-the-week outside of what is supposed to be her normal mating cycle. Of course the joke within modern Treks was that at any point within a 7-year series, any regular Vulcan character has an opportunity to experience Pon Farr during the lifetime of the series. And since she's only had a "false" Pon Farr so far ("Bounty"), then she can be due at any time... Which cheapens the whole thing. :\

          Quote:

          Come on admit it, T'Pol is not the warmest character. Lighten up, enjoy the show. By the way, I have always been a star trek fan (since age five, about fifteen years) and I do not watch soap operas.

          When you eventually add on another 20 years to your 15 (which is where I'm at and coming from), then you would have seen alot of Trek and know they can do better.

          --------

          "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
          ----
          "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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          • RE: Still more spin from a delusional old man | Report this post to moderator
            By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:37:55 on Jan 07, 2004

            Quote:"When you eventually add on another 20 years to your 15 (which is where I'm at and coming from), then you would have seen alot of Trek and know they can do better."


            OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


            That is my girl!

            Remind me to buy you dinner! And YES I love Italian!




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            • RE: Still more spin from a delusional old man | Report this post to moderator
              By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:39:46 on Jan 07, 2004

              LOL... And I just had some pizza for dinner too... ;-)

              --------

              "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
              ----
              "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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      • RE: Still more spin from a delusional old man | Report this post to moderator
        By: gotdan (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 19:44:50 on Jan 07, 2004

        Jesus Christ, lighten up. It's only a TV show. People like you give the rest of fandom a bad name.

        --------

        Does my big look ass in this?


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        • RE: Still more spin from a delusional old man | Report this post to moderator
          By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:45:06 on Jan 07, 2004

          Hey sloppy I was kidding!!!!!!


          and for the record I don't give the fans a bad name because I don't swallow everything Trek.




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          • RE: Still more spin from a delusional old man | Report this post to moderator
            By: Blessedwith3 (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 22:02:17 on Jan 07, 2004

            This isn't just a simple case of Enterprise bashing, though it does truly deserve it. This is a case of ST fans being used to quality shows and written characters that one actually cares about what happens to them. This is a case of a longing for the days when Trek meant something. How many fans has the producer of this show alienated with his truly bizarre statements and attitudes about our dying friend? I have no qualms with Scorned's gripes. Maybe season three has been improved somewhat. Hey, thats great! But you know, for some of us, it's starting to feel like... whats the phrase.. "too little too late." I'm really not trying to make anyone mad, but its time for a "Proper shakedown", to coin a phrase....

            --------

            "It is with our passions, as it is with fire and water, they are good servants but bad masters."
            Aesop (620 BC - 560 BC)

            "Really Doctor McCoy, you must learn to govern your passions... They will be your undoing."
            - Captain Spock (Much later)


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            • RE: Still more spin from a delusional old man | Report this post to moderator
              By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:34:40 on Jan 07, 2004 | Edit History (1)

              In all seriousness the majority of the die hards are gone. Most people I know stopped watching ENT after season 1. There are few that still do. The ones that do just watch it because they are bored and there is nothing else to watch. They now have more fun laughing at the writing and the characters then anything else. These were fans who used to love watching the show for the adventure. Now it has gotten to a point where they just sit there and laugh at the mistakes, the jumping of characters, the lack of structure and how they are going to redo another TNG episode. I wouldn't know what to call the people who watch ENT now. They see one or two episodes out of 24 that are any good they are "forgive and forget". They are quick to forgive continuity mistakes and lazy writing.

              You can say what you want about Season 3. But the increased ratings are nothing to brag about. Had they gone to 6 million or 7 million then I would say that was quite impressive. But with season 3 half over and the viewership up by 500K I would say this Xindi arc is a failure. It hasn't done anything to attract new viewers. It just makes getting ENT have enough episodes made to go into syndication more possible. Yes some of my response seem harsh but they are true. A little reminder to keep things in perspective and keep the show to what the core idea set by Gene was all about: Adventure. Not a deliberate attempt to have Barbie dolls on the set in order to get ratings. It seriously is time for new management and with people doing "bonehead" stunts like the "Enterprise Project". It doesn't get anything done. Anyone of TPTB that wanted Berman fired sees that ad and it gives B&B another extension. As a share holder of Paramount I would want him OUT! How many "lives" do these guy have left? Are they men or cats? It's the same people in charge. Same people calling the shots. Same people "rewritting" scripts. I mean honestly where is the new blood? And what about another movie? Is Nemesis going to be how it ends?


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sounds intriguing | Report this post to moderator
By: MoulinRouge (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:25:25 on Jan 07, 2004

Consequences? Follow through? Mutiny? I must admit I'm intrigued. This speaks of a great storyline for the former boy scout in command. I'm encouraged...Bakula is 1000 percent better playing Archer with the dark, tortured edges. I'm wondering if he wants to use these "children" as leverage.

As for Trip and T'Pol, why not? Coto's writing it. I'm willing to give it a chance. I want to see what Connor and Jolene bring to those scenes. It's about time the writers stopped pussyfooting around with decon scenes and "swapping chromosome" talk that's supposedly so titillating. Adults have adult relationships.


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LOL | Report this post to moderator
By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:21:26 on Jan 07, 2004

From the above:

With the addition of Manny Coto, it makes life much easier; Manny is a terrific writer," he says. "Chris Black is a terrific writer. We have two co-executive producers who can turn out good scripts and rewrite good scripts. For Brannon [Braga] and me it is really a question of having a team that we can work with, as opposed to have to write a bunch of them ourselves."

AND specifically - "For Brannon [Braga] and me it is really a question of having a team that we can work with, as opposed to have to write a bunch of them ourselves."

All I can say is that Berman has the gift of the spin. It is remarkable.

But here is the sad part (from further down in the quotes above):

"We had a lot of conversations about how we could stay true to our characters, and Jolene has the tough job in terms of how to rationalize that with the character traits that are Vulcan."

When you have your own actors in interviews admitting that they have problems "rationalizing" what has been done to this supposed Vulcan character and the behavior traits assigned to her, it is a sad day. As far as I'm concerned, "GAME OVER". Reveal whatever it is that she is and move on.



--------

"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
----
"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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  • RE: LOL | Report this post to moderator
    By: MoulinRouge (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:05:07 on Jan 07, 2004 | Edit History (1)

    Scorned, if you're that offended over the current state of Trek then give it up. You will hate any storyline offered or attempted. Your continued determination to hate ENT no matter what isn't clever. It's tiresome. If only nerds enjoy Trek, what is someone who spends so much time on something he HATES? Why do you bother? It doesn't make any sense. You derive no enjoyment from it. No law says you have to enjoy it, but I can't understand for the life of me why you expend so much energy on something you can't stand. Is it just easier to bitch and never have to make an effort at anything? Even we folks who mock Britney Spears' recent marriage get tired of it after a few days. Move on, Scorned. You don't like ENT. Fair enough. Valid opinion. So why bother to watch?


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  • RE: LOL | Report this post to moderator
    By: O. Deus (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:29:58 on Jan 07, 2004

    Basically the translation is that Blaylock has watched enough Star Trek to be familiar with Vulcans and has enough professional commitment to her work to want some sort of realistic framework behind the character she's portraying.

    And Berman apparently can't simply quite say to her 'Because we're up the creek and we think it will bring in more male viewers, that's why" so there are 'discussions' on the subject...


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    • RE: LOL | Report this post to moderator
      By: MoulinRouge (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:12:58 on Jan 07, 2004

      She doesn't seem to know that Sarek married a human. They don't need to back away from this. It's a step in the right direction, IMHO, and that comes from soemone who's pushing 40, is more than familiar with Trek and who loathes soap operas. Trek should be devoid of any romance or sex? Any romance or sex is pandering? Unworthy of Trek?

      Folks, I don't understand this aversion to any form of sex or physical intimacy on ENT. We're this offended because it's a Vulcan character? We're morally outraged? Who cares? It's not inconsistent with canon. Trek isn't a sacred entity. God isn't going to smite anyone because they haven't conformed to the Trek bible. I've come to realize that Trek's two biggest enemies are not Rick Berman and Brannon Braga. Trek's biggest obstacles are 1.)UPN and 2.)Its fans narrow, rigid expectation of "what Trek should be." I can't fathom the negative reaction to this article.


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      • RE: LOL | Report this post to moderator
        By: O. Deus (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:36:58 on Jan 08, 2004

        I'm certainly not opposed to any and all romance on Star Trek. I think it has a place and a function...when done right. But it shouldn't be done just for the sake of showing a relationship in order to keep viewers tuning in or to showcase some T&A.

        And I think you'd find it hard to deny that Star Trek does not have a good track record on relationships. Consider Troi and Riker, Troi and Worf, Bashir and Dax, Dax and Worf, Ezri and Whomever, Paris and Torres, Neelix and Kes, EMH and Seven, Kim and Seven, Seven and Chakotay, Janeway and Chakotay...

        Did any of this really add to the show or actually detract from it?

        My opinion would be that it wasted valuable time that could have been put to better use. I don't think the writers are capable of writing a realistic relationship or doing so in a way that doesn't weaken the characters or be exploitative. And from where I stand, the T'Pol-Tucker thing is unrealistic, it weakens the characters and its exploitative. In Las Vegas that would be a jackpot.

        And to boot it also plays havoc with Star Trek continuity. I mean Sarek and Amanda's relationship is a world away from T'Pol and Tucker's erotic massages or T'Pol racing around the ship in her underwear in heat. The former was legitimate and dignified, the latter borders on soft core.


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      • RE: LOL | Report this post to moderator
        By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:32:00 on Jan 08, 2004

        Quote:
        She doesn't seem to know that Sarek married a human.

        And this one doesn't seem to know that Sarek had married a "Vulcan Princess" who bore a son, before he married the Human named Amanda. And that after Amanda died, he married another Human woman named Perrin.

        And this one also doesn't realize that even within this show when the "Vulcans only mate every 7 years" was bandied about in dialog in the Mess Hall as a joke in "Fusion", the assumption was that this literally meant having intercourse (which is why it was considered funny for some silly junior high school age reason)

        Quote:

        They don't need to back away from this.

        It should have been followed through to its natural conclusion during the first season.

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        It's a step in the right direction, IMHO,

        Not the way it is being presented now.

        Quote:

        and that comes from soemone who's pushing 40, is more than familiar with Trek and who loathes soap operas. Trek should be devoid of any romance or sex? Any romance or sex is pandering? Unworthy of Trek?

        And when you're over 40 like I am, you will find that the sex obsession is just that, a silly obssession. It gets put into perspective out of the juvenile and into the real world and its place in it. ;-)

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        Folks, I don't understand this aversion to any form of sex or physical intimacy on ENT.

        Where have you concluded that? This seems pretty exaggerated.

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        We're this offended because it's a Vulcan character?

        She's not a Vulcan, that much is clear. ;-) Braga seems to almost suggest this now.

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        We're morally outraged?

        Morality has nothing to do with it.

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        Who cares? It's not inconsistent with canon. Trek isn't a sacred entity.

        And I guess character resets are now the norm. One week they're critically ill with an incurable disease and soon to die, the next week they're just fine and dandy, no sign of any illness. ;-)

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        God isn't going to smite anyone because they haven't conformed to the Trek bible.

        Seems that the 8,000,000 viewers who left after the premier ARE that smiting, don't you think?

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        I've come to realize that Trek's two biggest enemies are not Rick Berman and Brannon Braga. Trek's biggest obstacles are 1.)UPN and 2.)Its fans narrow, rigid expectation of "what Trek should be." I can't fathom the negative reaction to this article.

        Actually, the part about T'Pol is inconsequential at this point. The MAJOR spoiler about Archer is much more interesting in that I hope that whatever occurs is substantial AND meaningful within the context of the way this character has been written and will help to add some depth to the character. A layer that takes him from the poor little only child rich kid Eagle Scout badge-having, water polo-playing, world-travelling, hobnobbing-with-Ambassadors-as-a-kid-'cause-Daddy-was-in charge-of-the-Warp-5-program Captain and also move him away from the spoiled brat temper-tantrum-having newbie, to a mature adult and experienced leader.

        --------

        "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
        ----
        "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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        • RE: LOL | Report this post to moderator
          By: O. Deus (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:50:55 on Jan 08, 2004

          And this one doesn't seem to know that Sarek had married a "Vulcan Princess" who bore a son, before he married the Human named Amanda.

          Arguably not canon.

          Seems that the 8,000,000 viewers who left after the premier ARE that smiting, don't you think?

          Enteprise has lost fewer viewers than either Ds9 or Voyager did. Of course Enterprise had much less viewers to start with because most of the viewers who tuned in for the Ds9 and Voyager pilots never even showed up for the Enterprise pilot because they'd given up on Star Trek a while back.


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    • RE: LOL | Report this post to moderator
      By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:51:36 on Jan 07, 2004

      And that's the bottom line.

      I had read some material right around the time the show was premiering, that claimed that for the first time, an entire Trek cast had actually been familar with (and had watched at some point) Star Trek. And so there is a generation of Trek actors and actresses who are somewhat knowledgeable (although obviously not to the detail of many fans) of the universe as already shown in the 4 other series and 9 movies (before NEM).

      I don't know what else to say except that these mysterious Expanse Spheres, coupled with the TCW, are 2 possible backdoors out of this... aside from some unusual alternate universe/time-shifting parasite whatever technobabble that could fix this. Thing is, if it is reset, then the "real" stuff needs to be RESEARCHED properly. And it's as simple as.... reaching over onto Okuda's desk and opening up his Encyclopedia that he, his wife, and others so painstakingly and lovingly (as he said in the forward) wrote.

      --------

      "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
      ----
      "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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      • RE: LOL | Report this post to moderator
        By: O. Deus (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:56:51 on Jan 08, 2004

        It's commonplace for actors coming on a Star Trek series to start talking about how much they liked Star Trek so I don't place much value in that. Some of it is just spin and actors trying to endear themselves to the fans, especially since the reality is that with the decline in Star Trek viewership...newer generations of actors are increasingly less likely to have watched Star Trek on any regular basis but to be familiar with it as a pop culture idea.


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  • Whatever she "really" is? | Report this post to moderator
    By: MoulinRouge (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:28:06 on Jan 07, 2004

    Oh.....then I guess Sarek wasn't a real Vulcan either. Not that I'd be opposed to a Romulan secret type storyline involving T'Pol, but why is Trip and T'Pol sleeping together so detrimental? I find it encouraging that the actors are so involved that they discuss scenes which each other to make them work. That's not a bad thing. That's a good thing.


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    • RE: Whatever she "really" is? | Report this post to moderator
      By: Romanjr1 (Odo's file, contact) @ 02:27:17 on Jan 08, 2004

      I have found reading the post here very amusing for more reasons than I can get into.
      Let me say however most of you have it wrong, Remember one thing Vulcan’s have a very Victorian attitude towards sex we only know of the 7 year mating bit from TOS it’s Movies, TNG, DS9 and VOY not to mention the Vulcan way of being. You all seem to forget in these your “Pure Trek” Shows there have always been reference to or shown examples of Vulcan’s who don’t fallow the “Logical Path” in fact as stated in early shows and Movies there are those who out right reject or don’t Fully comply with it don’t forget Vulcan’s don’t Lack emotion or don’t know what it is to feel they Repress Emotion and put logic to there feeling where emotion plays no part.

      However, if you don’t agree with this Remember Vulcan’s have Married other Species and Mated with them and most if not all of them don’t wait 7 years to get down and dirty with there loved ones!

      As for the way the show is presented I will admit there are Elements that are not true to form but hardly worthy of the “Destruction of Trek as we Know it” Title you are branding it with, You all are forgetting one major fact this show in it’s time line is the before before Picture of the Trek that is to Come Hell if things weren’t Different I’d be really Pissed at the Show, It’s all about growing each generation will always have things in common but will also be different than from the one before it right, Maybe not so much different than the one that came before but certainly the further you go back the greater most of those differences become.

      And for those of you who have a Problem with the Trip/T'Pol Paring let me remind you of one thing “It’s a Captains World in Trek” aside from the finale hours of DS9 what captain in Trek has ever been or Close to one significant other The captains are always Single to get the Girl or Guy in one case. Or you could just stop watching Buy the DVD’s of the other shows and live with just that


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      • RE: Whatever she "really" is? | Report this post to moderator
        By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:47:18 on Jan 08, 2004

        Quote:
        I have found reading the post here very amusing for more reasons than I can get into.
        Let me say however most of you have it wrong,

        Who is "most of you"?

        Quote:

        Remember one thing Vulcan’s have a very Victorian attitude towards sex we only know of the 7 year mating bit from TOS it’s Movies, TNG, DS9 and VOY not to mention the Vulcan way of being.

        And so what does this mean? "Victorian"? You wish to assign Human traits to an alien species. Who's to say what is "right" or what is "wrong"? That's pretty arrogant, don't you think? The EMH in VOY used this term and being a Human-created and programmed hologram, is merely a reflection of his programmer Dr. Zimmerman. Yet people seem to have latched onto this charcterization in a negative sort of way to insult a species and how they deal with one of many physiological functions.

        In the context of how it was described in TOS "Amok Time" by Spock to Kirk after much consternation, this "cycle" is BIOLOGICAL. It's not something you turn on and off at a whim like Humans can do. It is serious and causes a neurochemical imbalance, mass fluctuations in their hormones, etc. To the point where if it isn't resolved, then they can die.

        Quote:

        You all seem to forget in these your “Pure Trek” Shows there have always been reference to or shown examples of Vulcan’s who don’t fallow the “Logical Path”

        First - what does "'Pure Trek' Shows" mean? Is that as opposed to "'half-breed' Trek Shows" or maybe "'quarter-breed' Trek Shows" or what? Isn't this show supposed to be a "Star Trek" spin-off?

        Second, yes there have been Vulcans who refused to follow the teachings of Surak. By far the biggest group call themselves Romulans. Imagine that.

        Quote:

        in fact as stated in early shows and Movies there are those who out right reject or don’t Fully comply with it don’t forget Vulcan’s don’t Lack emotion or don’t know what it is to feel they Repress Emotion and put logic to there feeling where emotion plays no part.

        Not sure what this has to do with anything...??? I think that most people who would even bother to post on a Star Trek-focussed forum, have at least some vague knowledge about Vulcans and emotion.

        Quote:

        However, if you don’t agree with this Remember Vulcan’s have Married other Species and Mated with them and most if not all of them don’t wait 7 years to get down and dirty with there loved ones!

        I see. "Married" to other species has been shown. But as for the rest of what you wrote, please explain how you have come to this incredibly and remarkably devoid-of-any-proof conclusion?

        Quote:

        As for the way the show is presented I will admit there are Elements that are not true to form but hardly worthy of the “Destruction of Trek as we Know it” Title you are branding it with,

        One does not need to look to the posters here to see this. Just look at the Nielsens. TNG reached a peak of some 25,000,000 viewers. DS9 averaged around 15,000,000 - 17,000,000. VOY averaged from 5,000,000 - 7,000,000. And ENT can barely hold onto 4,000,000. So what can you conclude?

        Quote:

        You all

        Who is "you all"?

        Quote:

        are forgetting one major fact this show in it’s time line is the before before Picture of the Trek that is to Come

        Correct. And many of us would like to see a substantive description of what the 22nd century was like.

        Quote:

        Hell if things weren’t Different I’d be really Pissed at the Show, It’s all about growing each generation will always have things in common but will also be different than from the one before it right,

        Perhaps. Often the reality is that a society will grow and evolve socially, politically, economically and do certain things and have have certain expectaitons then suddenly they may retract growth (perhaps due to environmental or natural disasters where crops fail or due to a war), and they pull back. And then they rebuild, and they cycle back up into a more prominent position again. Civilizations rise and civilizations fall. That is a natural cycle.

        Quote:

        Maybe not so much different than the one that came before but certainly the further you go back the greater most of those differences become.

        Not always. Again, if you study the history of socieites and of groups (Sociology), you will see that it isn't as clear cut as this.

        Quote:

        And for those of you who have a Problem with the Trip/T'Pol Paring let me remind you of one thing “It’s a Captains World in Trek” aside from the finale hours of DS9 what captain in Trek has ever been or Close to one significant other The captains are always Single to get the Girl or Guy in one case.

        Huh? Then how do you explain Tom Paris? Son of the current Admiral Paris (who obviously was a "Trek 'Captain'" at some time in his career)? What about Geordi's mother who we "met" in TNG "Interface", and who was Captain of the USS Hera? Or Janeway's father Admiral Janeway, who we "met" in VOY "Coda"? And before Janeway shipped off to go after the Maquis, she was engaged to be married to a man named "Mark".

        So I don't understand this broad-brushed conclusion. And why leave out Sisko, who was happily married to a woman named "Jennifer" right out of Star Fleet Academy, she bore his son Jake, and then she died in the Battle of Wolf 359? I guess he isn't included because he doesn't fit your silly conclusion? What about Captain Hikaru Sulu and his daughter Demora Sulu? Where in GEN, Kirk comments to Scotty wondering how in the world Sulu found the time to have a family (and this is in GEN when Sulu WAS still a Captain of the USS Execelsior, which was shown previously in TUC). And Scotty replies - you have to MAKE the time.

        So Trek doesn't always fit into the neat little characterizations that you claim exist and that you throw in other's faces, particularly when what you wrote is doing the very same thing that you argue others do.

        Quote:

        Or you could just stop watching Buy the DVD’s of the other shows and live with just that

        Those who are so defensive about what they like about this show when others critique to make it the best Trek out there, should take these differing opinions and criticism as just that - differing opinions and criticism... that are someone else's take on the whole thing. Rather than blatantly attacking or name-calling or telling people to "get a life" or "get a wife" or "get laid" or other such juvenile nonsense, revel in what you like about the show and post it here.

        --------

        "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
        ----
        "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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    • RE: Whatever she "really" is? | Report this post to moderator
      By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:23:19 on Jan 07, 2004

      But then why was Connor quoted as saying what he said if this was the way it was to be? Why would he say "...and Jolene has the tough job in terms of how to rationalize that with the character traits that are Vulcan." ? Why would this be a "tough job"? If Vulcans are re-imagined for this show, it shouldn't be an issue at all and should actually be rather easy to play. No "rationalization" needed. They can just go on and coreograph whatever scene they intend on doing and what the species is supposed to be like is irrelevant, because the Vulcan species in ENT is obviously not the same as the Vulcan species in other Treks, so you just do whatever you want! The sky's the limit!

      My whole issue with how this is playing out is because it started off on a good track back starting with "Broken Bow I & II", through "Strange New World", finally building to a nice crescendo in "Breaking the Ice". Then it was unceremonially dropped. And TPTB had other plans that took this character hither and yon.

      And so now here we are and as far as I'm concerned this time around, it is artificially generated. And IMHO, the "Sleepless in Seattle" magic is gone.

      --------

      "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
      ----
      "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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      • RE: Whatever she "really" is? | Report this post to moderator
        By: gotdan (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 19:54:21 on Jan 07, 2004

        It's a TV show ... the whole thing is artifically generated.

        --------

        Does my big look ass in this?


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        • RE: Whatever she "really" is? | Report this post to moderator
          By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:22:50 on Jan 07, 2004

          Quote:
          It's a TV show ... the whole thing is artifically generated.

          I want my TV shows to MAKE SENSE. Get it?

          Got it.

          Good. ;-)

          --------

          "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
          ----
          "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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      • RE: Whatever she "really" is? | Report this post to moderator
        By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:34:35 on Jan 07, 2004 | Edit History (2)

        Quote from Jadzia-Dax to MoulinRouge:
        If Vulcans are re-imagined for this show, it shouldn't be an issue at all and should actually be rather easy to play. No "rationalization" needed. They can just go on and choreograph whatever scene they intend on doing and what the species is supposed to be like is irrelevant, because the Vulcan species in ENT is obviously not the same as the Vulcan species in other Treks, so you just do whatever you want!

        You're inspirationally correct, Jadzia, but you're trying to reason with a goalpost-shifting "worshiper" who doesn't give a rat's ass about the Vulcan archetype or Trek. Her real concern is that Tucker gets his jollies (preferably while he appears in nothing but his underwear) with any emotionally confused female who'll have him.

        The need to "rationalize" T'Pol's un-Vulcan-like behavior is just more evidence that Berman et al are willfully screwing with the cornerstones of Star Trek.

        --------------
        Star Trek: 2004 Wall Calendar
        Image


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        • RE: Whatever she "really" is? | Report this post to moderator
          By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 20:33:00 on Jan 07, 2004

          And interestingly enough, I understand that Connor used to be a recurring character on "One Life to Live" so "soaps" are well known to him... ;-)

          --------

          "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
          ----
          "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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          • RE: Whatever she "really" is? | Report this post to moderator
            By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 05:14:27 on Jan 08, 2004

            Quote:
            And interestingly enough, I understand that Connor used to be a recurring character on "One Life to Live" so "soaps" are well known to him... ;-)

            Ironic, then, that Mike Sussman chose to make Tucker a stranger to soap, not bothering to bathe before going to the Vulcan Massage Parlor! Image

            --------------
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            • RE: Whatever she "really" is? | Report this post to moderator
              By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:49:54 on Jan 08, 2004

              Oh you are SO bad! Image

              Image



              --------

              "I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
              ----
              "If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701


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  • RE: LOL | Report this post to moderator
    By: StillKirok (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:24:37 on Jan 07, 2004

    Rick Berman and Brannon Braga are the 2 worst writers in Trek history. Maybe writing is rewarding for Rick, but it's hell on the fans, and if you notice, the episodes that get the worst reviews are theirs.

    If they want a rewarding experience, why don't they reward the fans who stayed loyal and turn in their resignations and start a franchise of their own. If they are so great at what they do, they should be able to have a success that does NOT involve leetching off the work of someone else and running a franchise into the ground.

    Rick Berman is a complete joke.


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    • RE: LOL | Report this post to moderator
      By: Blessedwith3 (Odo's file, contact, web site) @ 22:09:17 on Jan 07, 2004

      Please see "Scorned" Translation of said Berman interview. Bring a lunch.

      --------

      "It is with our passions, as it is with fire and water, they are good servants but bad masters."
      Aesop (620 BC - 560 BC)

      "Really Doctor McCoy, you must learn to govern your passions... They will be your undoing."
      - Captain Spock (Much later)


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