I'm glad they're cutting back by two episodes. When I found out most other one-hour dramas don't do 26 episodes, I had to really question why Trek, a more complicated production by its very nature, insisted on doing so to begin with. I hope this does a couple things: first, make them focus the stories for the rest of the season and hopefully second, trim some of those more "bottle" episodes that often aren't that great.
I don't know how the budget works on a television series, but perhaps this will allow to spread some of the money around a bit to other episodes.
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I doubt UPN would cut two episodes and still let them use the money.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
Look at this with an upbeat outlook. This only means there are 2 fewer episodes I won't "not watch."
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The central question that emerges . . . is whether the White community in the South is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas in which it does not prevail numerically? The sobering answer is Yes – the White community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race. -- the eminent conservative rag, National Review
Over at MediaWeek, Berman says that there is no truth to it:
Quote:
"Just yesterday UPN assured me that Star Trek: Enterprise is by no means moving to Friday. Although ratings are down year-to-year, the sci-fi drama still has an audience and is not ready to head to that big spaceship in the sky."
When Gene Roddenberry died, so did Star Trek, Bergman has no idea what he is doing.
The movies have went down hill, the seires haven't did as well(even thought Enterprise is great) and it's Bergman's fault.
The wrose idea Bergman ever had was to kill Captian Kirk, Bergman should get on his knees and beg William Shatner to come back.
I also blame the Nielsen Ratings for what's happening to Enterprise, since when is Nielsen Ratings a good way to see what people are watching when less then 1% of households have them boxes, TiVo has a new box either coming out or out that works like a Nielsen box the differance is anyone that wants one can buy one and pay the monthly service fee and their veiwing habbits will be counted.
I'd say the most logical reason for a cut-down to 24 episodes this season, is that each one has been more expensive so far. They sure look very very expensive, compared to season 1-2. I'm amazed at the high visual quality and more-than-usual creative music. I have never seen anything so great, and all you people can do is say "I don't care!"
It's like learning an old almost unknown uncle died, it's sad but you don't really care...Never thought I would say that!
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"Gods drunkenly cried juvenile acne, lop ears, the Lafontaine park, retirement at 60, disappointing love, public washrooms and raging toothaches"
tupperfan.blogspot.com
It's hard to believe that ENT has already had more eps than TOS. Okay, there were many weak TOS eps, like "Spock's Brain." But look at all the really memorable TOS eps, out of the 79 total. In comparison, how many great eps of ENT have there been in the same period? If ENT does get dumped this year, the reasons will be clear.
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"When I was your age, I didn't watch television! I LIVED! So... move out of your parent's basements!"
-- William Shatner on SNL, 1986
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I believe TOS had 79 episodes....ENT isn't quite to that point yet....3 full seasons of 26 episodes is only 78 episodes. We aren't done w/ season 3 yet.
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"Yes, madam, I am drunk. But in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly.
-- Winston Churchill
(Picture Main Street Salt Lake City UT, Circa 1900)
Many of us on the boards have commented that we are sick of those "filler" episodes that waste time. Perhaps reducing the number of episodes is a way to improve the overall quality of the show.
Is this perhaps the first step towards a change from "quantity" of Trek to "quality?"
Finishing out 100 episodes then shutting ENT down sounds like a reasonable hypothesis. As much as I love Star Trek, the franchise is in desperate need of a rest. Just think, they have what, more than 700 episodes of TNG, DS9 and VOY in the can. If they syndicate it right, then come back with fresh ideas in a few years, they could really kick-start the ST universe all over.
If this happens, I wouldn't fret like fans of TOS did in the early 1970s. There is plenty of Trek material out there to enjoy. But B&B, as much as they have done for the franchise (and let's be honest folks, taken as a whole, they've done a very good job), fresh ideas are needed. And the best way to do that is to let it sit.
The question becomes, do the suits at Paramount have that kind of patience?
Live long and prosper.
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Taken as a whole, they have NOT done a good job. They took a profitting virile franchise and flushed it down the toilet. What have they done? Just because no one has been smart enough to fire these bumbling idiots doesn't change that they are bumbling idiots. Ten years where the best they could do is mediocre to bad.
The only good in the last decade has been DS9, and not surprisingly, Berman and Braga had little or nothing to do with it.
Voyager and Enterprise and the TNG movies are all their doing, and that is the reason Trek is where it is. They have not done an overall good job. They have been utterly pathetic. They are no talent hacks that have long since wore out their welcome. But they are like those guests at the party that just won't leave while breaking your stuff.
It's not Star Trek that needs a break. It's Berman and Braga that need to go.
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Sadly, I think the answer is both. Even though jasetkirk is right to put the responsibility on the recent producers rather than on the franchise itself, the sad truth is that because of the recent mediocrity of the franchise, it needs to (as Ron Moore puts it) "lie fallow" for a while before a new team comes in to reinvigorate it.
Let's just hope that after Enterprise is cancelled, we don't have to wait as long for the new Star Trek series as we have for the new Doctor Who series! (Finally coming in 2005, in case you didn't know.)
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funny moron, you speak as if Enterprise IS going to be cancelled.
It'll never be cancelled, especially since THIS point in Earth's time is one for the ages. This will fill in and HAS filled in a lot of the gaps and answered a lot of the questions from previous Trek, because now we get to see how it USED to be back in the day.
Enterprise is defintely better than Voyager and Similitude was just as good as any great DS9, TNG or TOS episode.
So it's getting better and Season 3 WAS the turning point for TNG, so I expect nothing less from this series.
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Enterprise has not filled in ANY gaps. It is a sloppy show, which cannot possibly be reconciled with the others. All Enterprise has accomplished is botching continuity, like many predicted since Rick Berman and Brannon Braga have no clue about continuity. This show cannot possibly be 100 years before TOS. It can only be an alternate universe.
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Are you saying that I'm a funny moron or did you mean, "Funny, moron"? (See, kids, punctuation is important!)
Yes, I did speak as if Enterprise were going to be cancelled. Because I think it's very unlikely that it will live out the 7-year period that has come to be seen as the natural life span of a Star Trek series. You say,
Quote:
...THIS point in Earth's time is one for the ages. This will fill in and HAS filled in a lot of the gaps and answered a lot of the questions from previous Trek, because now we get to see how it USED to be back in the day.
That's all true. But that has nothing to do with how likely the series is to be cancelled. The only thing that affects how likely a series is to be cancelled is whether the network and the studio think it will continue to make money or not. They don't care about the fictional history of the future, or answering questions from old series. They care about the bottom line. And I think that the bottom line will be that both the ratings and the merchandising revenues from the franchise are plummeting. They'll keep it going long enough to get a syndication package and no longer.
Quote:
Enterprise is defintely better than Voyager and Similitude was just as good as any great DS9, TNG or TOS episode. You know, I happen to agree with you. I also thought that "Twilight" was a very strong episode. But I think that the recent improvement may be too late as far as the Paramount executives are concerned.
I'm not anti-Enterprise. I think that the premise is a promising one and recent episodes have been a big improvement over the first two series. I just think that Star Trek as a whole would be better off if it took a few years off and came back with new producers at the helm.
So do you still think I'm a moron? Or are you not capable of having a civilized discourse with someone without name-calling?
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The way the stories & production have improved this year, I expect there to be full seven seasons of "Enterprise". Then, I think that it might be a good idea for the franchise to rest a couple of years.
As i recall B&B's huge contracts both lasts till the end of the 2004-2005 season so to me it all makes perfect sense to Paramount. They get the 100 eps they need to make a good deal on sindcation and they can get rid of both B&B without having to make a deal for firering them.
The thing is, What next. Another series is unlikely in the near future. Another movie is also not an option since there's no cast or audience for it.
So they could continue producing Enterprise with new people in charge or do TV movies. or just kill Star Trek off for a long long time. Sorry to say I see the latest the more likely to happend.
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What truly sucks though is that I believe there is an audience for Trek. It's just that there is no interest in Trek produced by Berman and Braga. They are the problem, not the franchise. What sucks is that they get away with it, and then as they leave, the fans get screwed. No payoff for putting up with them for a decade.
If the 24 episode part is true, then this is probably not good news unless the producers themselves asked for fewer episodes. But that's unlikely. More likely it's UPN trying to save some money, maybe doing extra reruns is more profitable for them. Similarly Sci-Fi channel reportedly has cut the number of SG-1 episodes for next season from 22 to 20 (they are also doing 20 episodes of an SG-1 spin-off).
Interesting coincidence, TOS 3rd season was cut to 24 episodes (from 26) before it was cancelled.
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Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
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yea, interesting.
But it could also be the fact that holding an arc for this long is difficult and they need to end it.
Could also mean that want to spend more time and pay more attention to Season 4, so they are cutting this one short to work hard on S4.
The list of possibilites are endless.
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Well SG-1 and Enterprise are getting shorter seasons for different reasons. SG-1 it is twofold, Richard Dean Anderson wants more time to spend with his family, and the production team now has two shows to run making for 40 episodes of TV they have to do. It makes sense to make both seasons shorter on both SG1 and Atlantis. The Stargate franchise is a rising star. Enterprise on the other hand is a slumping ratings show that's dying as it should. Star Trek isn't dying but Enterprise is and should.
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You are making assumptions here. The decision to do 20 episodes came from Sci-Fi channel and not the producers. If RDA wants to spend more time with his family, they can always do episodes without him (which they have done in the past), that certainly wasn't the reason to cut back episodes.
I love SG-1, but it's no more popular than ENT (at least in the US, it probably is more popular overseas). While comparing SG-1 & ENT ratings is not exactly apples to apples, it certainly is not getting better ratings. SG-1's ratings have been very stable (though not rising), but so have ENT's ratings this season.
I disagree about "ENT should die" comment. It's has been really good this season. If they can keep it up, it might actually surpass SG-1 (which has been a little disappointing this season) as my favorite current scifi series.
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Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
Who did TrekWeb talk to at Paramount? I read this off of another email list and it, again not being official since this is all rumor, shot down the rumor. According to the information gathered UPN would be making the decision on the number of episodes, not Paramount.
Problem with the internet, its too easy to get rumors flowing and too many people take them as fact.
Carl
(start)
Message: 16
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:01:43 EST
From: mjr91@aol.com
Subject: Re the episode reduction rumor: here's some truth
I just talked to Eric over at the ENT production office, who told me that he hadn't seen any memo cutting back on the number of episodes this season. He acknowledged that he is a low-level peon who would probably hear last if such were the case, but thought that he'd probably know before fan websites did if
it were true.
Eric suggested that maybe UPN was looking at only airing 24 episodes and that maybe the network might have been the origin of such a problem. However,
when I called the UPN programming department number that Eric had at his desk, the UPN programming folks told me that they have it scheduled for a full 26
episodes for the year; they haven't got any idea, at least at that woman's level in programming, of cutting back on any episodes.
Anyone who posts over at Trek BBS where this is being discussed, or over on TrekWeb, if it's being discussed there, may want to let people there know.
MJ
______________________________________________________
______________________________________________________
Message: 17
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:34:56 -0000
From: "MJ Rogers"
Subject: Re: Re the episode reduction rumor: here's some truth
And in the area of more good news -- I called Eric back just now to let him know that the UPN call had
been positive. When I called the studio, he wasn't at his desk so I talked to someone else for a minute -- who confirmed that ho one else there had heard any news on episode reduction either (and that since
the contract is for 26 episodes, it would be UPN's call, not Paramount's, to produce fewer episodes than that).
She also thought the best thing people could do (and I just emailed Dark Horizons about it) is - as I suggested in my last post - let people who hear this rumor know that we've spoken to Paramount and it's not true, and put out a few fires on the web saying so. (Again, anyone over at Trek BBS to tell them?)
The thing is this: Dark Horizons admitted it was only a rumor. (Although they could have checked it out before running it, as I did today when I had time to sit and make the calls. Odd how no one else ever calls UPN or Paramount to ask them anything, isn't it?) The website's own fear was that people would decide this was fact -- which some people are almost certainly doing.
My own concerns with rumors of this sort is that WE may hear them and believe them -- which was why I posted the original with caveats and then checked up on it -- or hear distorted versions of them and think
that we're going after hot info when we aren't. I'm concerned that they become demoralizing to people on the BBSes. I'm concerned that individuals not write letters to UPN, Les Moonves, etc wasting our
time and credibility whining about things that aren't true.
I'm also always concerned -- and it's one of the reasons I follow up, when no one else does -- that some of these rumors MAY contain a germ of truth to them, and I like to determine which are which. As I
said, the MediaWeek story is more credible than the Dark Horizons one was. That's one that's worthy of keeping our eyes on.
MJ
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-=/\=-
Carl Stark
http://beam.to/readyroom
Why Fridays?! Isn't Fridays supposed to equal death to most shows? Firefly and John Doe were on Fridays and even though they were great shows, they still got cancelled! Plus, I already got the primetime slots filled with Joan of Arcadia at 8, Mythbusters at 9, and The Handler at 10. I wanted Enterprise to move to a day that I don't already have a show I also want to see. It's already a pain to record both Smallville and Enterprise at the same time! If that is true, then goodbye Enterprise.
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"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek: The Beginning
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
Well all the signs were there that either Enterprise would make or break itself with S3. Though qaulity-wise the show has improved but unfortunately only in short spades. Plus the biggest factor that didnt work in enterprise favour and most probably will leads to its cancellation are the ratings. They haven't imporved much over S2. Everyone expected S3 to be a ratings spike of a season but alas B&B have killed star trek for good(love my signature) and fan have been driven away in droves for good. I highly doubt we are going to get another series or a thearatical movie for the next decade or so.
Sad day for all trekkies but we could see the storm coming from a long-time ago........:(
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"The mighty Star Trek would fall before us"-B&B
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The show has really shined this season. They managed to finally turn it into must see TV, but then UPN was stupid and triedm to go head to head with Smallville. If UPN had been smart and moved the show to Tuesday it might have been different.
It's still not too late. If UPN moves the show to Buffy's o;d Tuesday at 8 slot then the show can still be saved.
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"New Jersey Girl, New Jersey Girl
Come on and rock my world
New Jersey Girl, New Jersey Girl
I wanna love you
New Jersey Girl, New Jersey Girl
With your crazy f**ked up hair
New Jersey Girl, New Jersey Girl
Your wicked awesome!"
-Nerf Herder
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The show has really shined this season. They managed to finally turn it into must see TV, but then UPN was stupid and triedm to go head to head with Smallville. If UPN had been smart and moved the show to Tuesday it might have been different.
It's still not too late. If UPN moves the show to Buffy's o;d Tuesday at 8 slot then the show can still be saved.
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"New Jersey Girl, New Jersey Girl
Come on and rock my world
New Jersey Girl, New Jersey Girl
I wanna love you
New Jersey Girl, New Jersey Girl
With your crazy f**ked up hair
New Jersey Girl, New Jersey Girl
Your wicked awesome!"
-Nerf Herder
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I was reading a new interview with Ron Moore today, the writer of the New Battlestar Galactica and writer of TNG and DS9 and he said the big stumbling block all those years while working on the TREK shows was Berman. He always to play it safe, have no conflict or drama amoung the characters.
Funny also that one of the other writers, Ira Behr (spelling?) was brought in recently by Berman to ask how to fix Enterprise.
Obviously it didnt work.
Here's the article link. He talks about Trek in general and all the shows and movies he wrote.
http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/444/444306p1.html
As for Fridays. Bad idea. Who is going to stay home and watch on Fridays? Sci Fi nerds? They couldnt even get people to watch Good Sci Fi with Farscape on Fridays.
As long as Enterprise doesn't interfere with JAG I'll be happy. There is crap on TV on Fridays and Enterprise would be great. It would be even better if it was Saturday at 8, but UPN won't do that. Still, if B&B gave a Damn about ratings, ENT would be on a network that has more than 65% penetration, like their sister network CBS.
TEG
Give it a REST, Enterprise will last at least 7 seasons!!!!!
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The Tegian Zone • Grow My MiniCity
This is whart ultimately did in TOS. Most of the prized 18-34 (or whatever the number is) is not home watching telly on Friday night.
Not a good show of faith in ENT on UPN's part. I wonder if they could finish up the series in syndication? This worked for TNG and DS9.
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"Commander, laws change, depending on who's making them. But justice, is justice" - Odo, "A Man Alone"
I really hate this world...
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Dude, It will be alright. If the rumor is true & the episodes are cut from 26 to 24, it's no big deal. I know that alot of the actors & B&B have commented on how taxing it is to make a series that long. Maybe (like someone already suggested) UPN can use the extra money saved & promote "Enterprise" properly for once.
I think that everything will be alright. I'm looking forward to seeing all seven seasons of "Enterprise" produced.
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It's nice that some are still optimistic. Lately, the bad news have been dominant, and fans without hope get angry, which doesn't seem to help anything, or maybe they really DON'T care anymore.. but then, why would they come to this website.
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It is good to see that others still care. I myself never post here much , or any other Trek site, because there always seems to be so much one-sided negativity.
I have been surprised for along time that first Voyager and then Enterprise still produced 26 episodes per season. Producing that many episdoes a season is more of a first run syndication type of thing. So I don't think this in of itself is really a bad thing. As I type this it is now confimed that the show is not moving to Fridays. Even though I think a new night may have helped, Friday would not have.
I say let it die, fire B&B, get together a new team of people that are talented and huge fans then spend a whole year in development, get it right.
I'm tired of ENT, its just limping along, each show feels like it was written over a conference call. The show is not working, so kill it before it kills the franchise. The effects are great, everything else stinks.
When it dies I'll be excited for trek again, excited for something new by new people.
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"I'm tired of ENT, its just limping along, each show feels like it was written over a conference call."
HEY!!! That's an insult to conference calls!! I'll have you know that a buddy of mine and I came up with some pretty good sci-fi stories over the phone...:)
Yes, it can be done.
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New Trek by New people? who? oh wise and
Omnipotent one. Enterprise is getting better. Marc Berman is a media critic who like all those who write for the media are not objective and only interested in their own words. Enterprise has never had a real chance. If it fails now, No one will ever try to develop a new Star Trek movie or television show for a very long time .. if ever. Why? because of the fans like you.
Live long and prosper Star Trek Enterprise!
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Again, the idea of blaming the fans for Trek's problems is just dumb. It's not the fans' fault that Berman and Braga can't write. Enterprise is better than last year? Possibly. Why? Because Berman and Braga are writing fewer episodes. Have you noticed that anything with their names on it gets lousy reviews? The worst episodes of the season are theirs.
I wonder what Enterprise could be if someone else were in charge. Mike Sussman actually can write, but he is hindered by Berman and Braga.
But this season is hardly must-see TV. To call it an improvement over last year is not saying much. The show still is weak. It still is flawed, and it still cannot be reconciled with the rest of Star Trek. This new direction has resulted in about a 10 percent drop in the ratings from last year at this time. That's not what they intended.
If they truly want to fix Trek, they cut off the people who ruined it.
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"If it fails now, No one will ever try to develop a new Star Trek movie or television show for a very long time .. if ever."
Yes, but if it continues...and sucks as it has since DS9 ended it's run...why would you want it to continue or even SEE it?
It's like watching your best friend die a slow, painful agonizing death. Or even worse -- tortured by two hacks known as Berman and Braga! LOL
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Everybody's so melodramatic. The show is getting better. "Similitude" was as good as any DS9.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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If you are a heavy drinker it was as good, in fact it could then be called a comedy.
Show me a "In the Pale Moon light" episode in ENT, hell I can name off at least 24 great DS9 episodes, thats a whole season practically.
ENT stinks, it just does. Trek does not, and what trek needs is a fresh start from new people. I will not cry or even care if ENT is canned. While I like watching, its just not good anymore, not good enough to stay on the air. There is nothing wrong with wanting to see the franchise saved.
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Quote:
I will not cry or even care if ENT is canned. While I like watching, its just not good anymore, not good enough to stay on the air
Here's a tip, kids: don't smoke crack.
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An elephant never forgets . . .TO KILL!
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What the hell is this? ENT-Bashers of the world unite?
If it sucks so much why do you continue to watch it? I, and no one else I gather since it is always asked, have never been able to get a straight answer.
Just answer it straight. Why? I hate the hell out of smallville and as a consequence refuse to watch it. Fair enough if you like something I don't. But you must be seriously warped to want to watch a show for the expressed sole purpose of bagging it.
Besides if you all know how to do it properly then by all means make your own damn show and see how long it lasts. That's why none of the fan books are any good, because they are written by fans who think they know better then the makers of the actual t.v. show and movies. So either put your money where your mouth is or shut up and get lost.
I'm sorry if I offend anybody but I am saying what needs to be said. Whether it has been said before or not. Simply because the mindless drones that are the ST:ENT bashers refuse to get it into their thick heads that they couldn't pull off a better show if they tried. I couldn't for that matter. The very reason I DON'T try. I leave it to the professionals.
If you cannot see the improvements in ST:ENT then you are either blind or just stupid. And from the things I've read from bashers' posts I am forced to believe it's the latter.
And before you accuse me of having rose-coloured glasses just let me say that I agree that ST:ENT had many a problem in the first two seasons, but those problems are being fixed. They cannot be remedied over-night. It takes a season or so. Some series, say DS9 for example, to me had the same problems through-out. General crappy-storylines and at most times complete and utter boredom and the acting throughout was okay, with exception to the very talented Jeffery Combs whose Wayoun character was the only thing that kept me watching, Gul Dukar was an idiot. And I think that Jeffery Combs is great as Shran in ST:ENT as well. And in ENT the acting is much better then DS9, IMHO. But then again I was never a DS9 fan. I'm happy for you if you were. But I was not. I liked TOS, TNG, VOY and now ENT. But I couldn't get into DS9.
I know I will get flamed, but all I can say is: BRING IT!
Now to the bashers to quote a great movie...
I FART IN YOUR GENERAL DIRECTION!
Flynn 19
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'Rose, you were fantastic. And you know what? So was I.'
-The Doctor, Doctor Who (2005)
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Quote:
If it sucks so much why do you continue to watch it? I, and no one else I gather since it is always asked, have never been able to get a straight answer...Just answer it straight.
Hehe. Great post. And the reason no one ever gets a straight answer to that question is because some people don't want to admit that they are so hopelessly addicted to the whole fantasy of Trek that they simply can't walk away from it no matter how bad the show supposedly gets.
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I agree with every thing that you said except I got burned out watching DS9 & didn't watch the last couple of seasons. I couldn't get into Voyager so, I went about 8 years without watching Star Trek. Whenever Enterprise premiered I was more than ready to try Trek again. You know what, I'm loving it. I think that it is a great series. To you Enterprise Bashers: if you don't like it, don't watch it. I also can't stand Smallville but I don't go to their websites & bash that show. I also didn't bash Trek whenever Voyager was on. Enough Enterprise bashing!!!!!!!!!
...if they not only move "Enterprise" to Friday nights, but at 10pm, to boot! History will magically repeat itself, and we'll never see from ENT and Berman & Braga again! Only this time, there won't be any ENTERPRISE movie in 2014.
Ent is mediocre but it has had it's moments. If it goes away I won't cry..
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We got a heartbeat Jim!.. Lock and Load! ST6 - Bones
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