Well, I liked the episode myself. I thought it was good for what it did.
Nothing happens. That's the point of most shows that Braga and Berman write (and yes, I use that term loosely). I know there are fans out there -that damn Star Trek Communication Magazine and on here too, filled with letters from fans who love this show. Granted, it's a little bias, but most of the letters they choose to publish are ones that praise these two tools. The key factor here is that Star Trek: Enterprise -like Voyager before it -is not made for Trek fans anymore. It's made for the absentee viewer -mainly males - who don't expect much substance from their shows. Thusly, we have Berman and Braga, obvious poster children for misogynistic-no-brains-needed TV, who "write" obnoxious, empty of any material that could actually be called interesting television. Star Trek: Enterprise hangs it's entire concept on visual effects and few nearly naked shots of T'Pol.
Alas, though, Paramount does not care. As long as Trek continues to generate money through it's various merchandise, we'll see Berman and Braga further drag down one of the best franchises TV has ever produced.
Trek god rest it's soul!
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I missed Carpenter Street but "Similitude" was certainly not vacuous. If they can produce more like "Similitude" and "Twilight" and "Anomaly" then I think the show will be headed in the right direction.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
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I realize that I have responded to your posts before but it's not that I'm "after you" so please take no offense! I just don't think it's fair to generalize the crowd who like B&B. Some of us are just nice people who look for something else in Star Trek than the crowd who dislikes B&B.
Have you noticed that the B&B stories have certain unique qualities to them? Let me give you an example or two: "Carbon Creek" and "Carpenter Street". Both of them compare our time to the Roddenberry-future. By doing this, B&B point out the many small flaws of our society. The flaws that, altogether, make a lousy world. Thankfully the story is subtle enough so people don't take offense, usually, and perhaps some of you don't even notice because they mix it with an entertaining kind of story. But it describes how many of us actually contributes to the problems mentioned in the two episodes.
I think that's relevant. You don't have to write a story about fanatics massmurders or cloning to be relevant.
I probably need to go into detail here. Well, lets talk "Carpenter Street" only:
Loomies' house is a mess. The phone has an annoying sound when it rings. Drugs are widespread. The cars are all locked up with alarm-systems, dogs and the van that Archer and T'Pol finally gets into, instantly turns on a loud radio with an annoying speaker. Crazy world huh? They need fuel and T'Pol notes the misuse of oil supplies. Loomies will do everything for money and T'Pol points him out as an example of a little mite that, along with thousands of other mites eats our society from within and takes the world from bad to worse. There was an anti-smoking ad (a clear one, what's why some people got upset). There was also the "Burgerland" scene that illustrates how everybody is a little greedy and nearly everybody falls victim of their own greediness, because it's part of our society.
These details are a contrast to the Roddeberry future that we usually see in Star Trek. It was covered with an entertaining story but you see it's relevant because it makes some people think: We are reminded of all the things we have to work on, to improve our world!
This is something unique to Star Trek and a vital part of it: It shows us a better future. Some fans have come to know it so well, they don't notice the contrast anymore. Other people don't look for it, and see only a mildly entertaining show. B&B are not trying to teach us HOW to solve the problems, but they point out WHAT needs to be solved and that it CAN be solved. That's an encouraging fantasy, that is worth striving for.
I realize, the Star Trek future has it's own problems with the Xindi and such. But at least it shows us there is progress, and there has to be, for our society to bloom. Season 1-2 was probably the best example of this so far, since it focused more on peaceful exploration, fitting the intro-sequence that describes the dreams of mankind.
Well, in the choice between Enterprise and Survivor, Survivor still wins for me, especially when they happen to be on the same night at the same time :P
Trek01
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"I am En'riov M'Tabek, Commander of the Seventh Fleet of the Romulan Imperial Navy. You've had your fun Captain. Its my turn now. See what this Varuul has up his sleeve and fear the new might of the Romulan Empire!"
--From my story "Cry of Echoes"
Most of the time i agree with O. Deus's reviews... but not this week. I really enjoyed this episode.
I've always thought it was a shame that they lost the excellent tone and style of "Broken Bow". This was the first episode that I felt recaptured it some what. I liked the more "down to Earth" nature as it were, and it just felt more like trepidation rather than space battles. T'Pol was so much better this week, more like a Vulcan, and I liked the T'Pol/Archer team.
Yeah, there are some plot holes, isn't there always plot holes in every Trek or show ever? The main thing was that it didn't ruin my enjoyment.
Just one final point... are there any Odyssey 5 fans around, and do any agree with me that Manny Coto's influence is really working its way into the show? A few weeks ago Earth was blown up in the show. Now this, an episode that could have been taken from Odyssey 5 quite easily.
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Lydia: "I've never lost at mortal combat yet."
Diana: "Idiot. If you had, you'd be dead." -- V, "The Champion"
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I've already watched "Carpenter Street" 3 times on video now! It's still very exciting. There has been some interesting and emotional episodes recently, but the "action" usually consists of gunshooting that we've seen a million times. However, Loomies tricked his victims in strange ways (not common in Star Trek) and this created a lot of suspense.
I've also noted some nice details that draws a line to earlier seasons:
1) T'Pol is vegetarian.
2) She is still sceptical about time-travel.
3) She is bothered by the smell of Porthos (oh she must have taken a great dose of medicine to reduce her smelling sensitivity before going to a large city on Earth 2004)
4) She seems to understand human culture fairly well. The same ability was demonstrated in "Carbon Creek" when another Vulcan understood how to play billiard; how T'Pols grandmother took on her clothes "backwards"; and what was radio entertainment. In "Carpenter Street", T'Pol advices Arhcer to start driving the van in gear number 2, and she correctly interprets the flashes from another driver as a reminder to turn on the external lights... Something I doubt I would've guessed if I was thrown into an alien world. But maybe T'Pol has read a thing or two about cars (actually Tucker says he once had a car, so they still exsists in the 22. Century.)
The episode briefly mentions what seems to be correct: Earth's oil reserves will be gone in circa 60 years according to current measures, assuming the industry does not change habits. Archer indicates that humans had to be forced to change it.
One of my theories gets confirmed: It takes a while for temporal disturbances to ripple through the time-line! That was my argument for believing Phlox in "Twilight".
I wonder though: How many tricks can this PRE-era Tricorder do? Trace the alarm system in cars, open the locks, and trick a machine to deliver some dollars?
I believe Kirk actually said Spock's ears were hurt in a rice picker. Anyone know for sure?
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The supervisor is Verizon!
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I think it was rice. And in VOY "Future's End I & II", Tuvok tells Rain his ears were "a family trait". LOL
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
Whimper is a nice word used by Deus for this episode.
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"The mighty Star Trek would fall before us"-B&B
Well... My mood after watching this episode is very good. So I vote 10/10 for this episode because I liked the style and everything about it.
Yeah, I've read Deus's review. Yeah, there are some questions about why Xindi could travel back in time, but not destroy Earth in a more immediate way. However, there could be a logical explanation for that (wether or not we will ever get the entire explanation) I don't have a problem with that. You just can't solve all mysteries in real life either. I've noticed from the very beginning of the Xindi arc, that they are NOT very powerful beings, so it makes sense that their abilities to travel in time was very limited in this case.
It's possible that the Xindi as a whole are weak, simply because they can't agree with each other. They can't decide anything really because they never agree. They are still an enemy with potential destructive power, but they can't figure out how to release that power. The episode "Rajiin" reveals this in particular, but in my opinion, it's been luring through all of season 3. Sometimes I think the audience is blinded by preconceptions about how the big enemies in Star Trek should behave. The Xindi seems like the exact opposite of the Borg. The Borg, who agree so well with each other.
Regarding how T'Pol kept Loomies around after Archer went into the building, it makes sense. She can't drive the car. Even Archer can't possibly drive as well as Loomies. So, they need him.
Regarding T'Pol referring to Loomies as portraying the worst of the 21. Century, lets remember how little she knows about humanity's past.
I do agree that it was insane for Archer to move into the factory the way he did. But perhaps he had little choice... In real life, yeah, he probably would have been killed. I also wonder why the Xindi don't pick up the audio transmissions between him and T'Pol outside the building. But they didn't pick up any biosigns in the episode "Shipment" either. Again, it demonstrates they are relative weak.
Anyway, it's rare and refreshing for Star Trek to show our time, with cars and everything. I loved that. It's actually been a wish of mine, for some time. And the first half of the episode was very exciting! The last half was just fine, keeping me glued to the TV. The story was believeable.
The music was great and there was enough humour - well placed humour - to keep me smiling. It wasn't "mediocre" Trek in my opinion. It was excellent. The episode did, what it was supposed to do. Thanks B&B. I look forward to the next episodes!
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Anyway, it's rare and refreshing for Star Trek to show our time, with cars and everything. I loved that. It's actually been a wish of mine, for some time.
Hey buddy - whenever they repeat it again, then you must watch VOY "Future's End I & II". Very much Earth in "our time" for a full 2 hours (and not just 1 like this). ;-) Tom Paris and Tuvok in a similar pickup truck (they must love those) and later in an old VW bus... With tacos and buritos and such for breakfast. ;-)
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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Yes I've seen "Future's End" and think it's one of Voyagers best two-parters! Captain Braxton is very funny as he walks around in the ghetto (wasn't it Brooklyn area?) and talks about time anomalies. Also the beginning where this hippie drums on some pans out in the woods. Hilarous! I've seen it more than once actually, as I have it on VHS. :-)
There was also DS9's two-parter in mid-season 3, where Jadzia, Benjamin and Julian ends up in 2000-something.. I don't remember the title of the episode. Do you remember when Kira beamed onto the street next to a van with some hippie music? ;o)
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Yes I've seen "Future's End" and think it's one of Voyagers best two-parters! Captain Braxton is very funny as he walks around in the ghetto (wasn't it Brooklyn area?)
It was some 3000 miles away from NYC - in Los Angeles. :-)
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and talks about time anomalies.
Well what's interesting is that he draws on a wall, what a "causality loop" is supposed to be like, ie., "A -> B -> C -> A". heh Actually I thought that was an interesting way to explain it since the term was used several times in Trek, particularly in TNG "Cause and Effect" (one of Braga's stories).
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Also the beginning where this hippie drums on some pans out in the woods. Hilarous! I've seen it more than once actually, as I have it on VHS. :-)
The "hippy" was the younger Henry Starling himself in 1969 (the main antagonist in the ep who causes all this mess stealing the time ship and making alot of money by introducing that 29th century technology into the 20th century). That part was when he witnesses Braxton's ship crash landing near his little campsite.
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There was also DS9's two-parter in mid-season 3, where Jadzia, Benjamin and Julian ends up in 2000-something.. I don't remember the title of the episode. Do you remember when Kira beamed onto the street next to a van with some hippie music? ;o)
That was "Past Tense I & II" and I believe they went back to 2024.
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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"It was some 3000 miles away from NYC - in Los Angeles. :-)"
Yes, Brooklyn these days has fewer ghettos than it used to and in any case Voyager was shot in California, so they wouldn't be very likely to fly to New York just for the ambiance. Ditto for Carpenter Street.
At Thanksgiving I have a lot to be thankful for...
... I am not in Iraq...
... or Afghanistan...
... that I live in a State where I can wear short pants in November...
... and that we have Deep Space Nine being released on DVD to ease the pain of watching Enterprise.
Last week's episode was at least good television while straying from the values of Trek.
This week really makes a total mockery of them adding 'Star Trek' in front of the title for this season.
Sleazy Hookers. Archer steals a car. Archer steals from an ATM. T'Pol promises to pay back what stolen money they don't use (!). Archer unties someone to immediately hit them because it makes him feel better than if their hands were tied.
This is not Trek!
We have here a recycled Season 1 X-Files plot that was a putrid as yesterday's diaper in the trash can.
And stupid stuff like why steal a car in the first place when there are taxis? Archer learning to drive incredibly quickly. Xindi hiding in shadows. T'Pol getting over her time travel disbelief. What the heck happened to the kidnapped people? Who called the Cops (not Mr and Mrs Morality, I hope). Sending only a handful of Xindi to wipe out Earth's population. I could go on... and on!
The Hamburger scene may have worked in a heart-warming story like ST4, but not in a show about blood-bank hookers on chloroform. Vejar does his best to direct this, but even he cannot rescue this time-traveling turd of a plot.
Why the Xindi have abandoned the weapon used at the end of Season 2 (which was supposed to be a test) for a biological attack still makes no sense to me.
Why did Drakula choose T'Pol as a partner? After last week's bs about Trip being so critical, why risk the 2 most senior people? Why not take a Maco?
This wasn't even fun to watch it was so bad.
This crapola makes me so angry. It is just lazy film-making. After the love and dedication that so obviously went into DS9, it is hard to believe this garbage is being produced by some of the same folks.
Again the producers have got involved in writing the script. Are they that short of talent? Are the producers that short of money for the show (or more likely themselves)?
I almost thought I heard Iggy Pop as the Xindi at the beginning of the show. It's sad when 'The Magnificent Ferengi' looks like a classic when compared to this mess.
Conclusion: TERRIBLE. The Pits. And this was supposed to be a Sweeps show? Jesus H. Christ.
I did have hope that this show would avoid cancellation after some promising episodes this season, but I am afraid this week is the final nail in the coffin. Most of the regular cast did not appear last night... I think it's really imporant to start job-hunting as soon as possible, don't you?
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Xindi hiding in shadows.
The Xindi stood in shadows so not to reveal themselves to Loomis. Loomis thought he was working for humans.
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Why the Xindi have abandoned the weapon used at the end of Season 2 (which was supposed to be a test) for a biological attack still makes no sense to me.
The Xindi did NOT abandon the energy probe weapon. In "Rajiin" Degra the scientist overseeing the energy weapon project informed the council that during one of the tests on the weapon it destroyed the lab taking most of his research with it.
Concerned that it would be months before they had a weapon and NX getting closer to them and finding weapon, the reptilian mentioned the bioweapon. The council decided to allow both degra and the reptilians to separately work on both weapons and whoever finished theirs first would be used to destroy humnaity.
Degra as we have seen over last few episodes seems to have made up for the setback and is almost ready to deploy the energy weapon while the reptilian sent a team of doctors back to the 21st century to perform tests on their virus. The Reptilians clearly have been shown as the experts on biotech based on their weaponry so they probably were more qualified to create the bioweapon
I imagine they went back in time to work on humans who in this period know nothing of xindi conflict. it isn't like they would feel safe going to 22nd century earth surrounded by their enemies who are aware of them after probe attack.
As a former major fan of "Starsky and Hutch", I protest! !! ;-)
Actually, you're right. Only difference is that setting "Carpenter Street" when they did allowed:
1.) Showing of an ATM machine to get money, technology only speculated about in Alvin Toffler's mid-70s book "Future Shock" and for sure not around in the '70s.
2.) Showing of a "booted" car (LOL)
3.) The nod to Conan O'Brien in one scene... ;-)
And O. Deus dear - and someone correct me if I'm wrong - I thought those things were Xindi-reptillians. If I'm not mistaken, way back per a chat (maybe one of Bakula's), I thought they pretty much ruled out showing live-action interaction between the CGI characters - the Xindi-aquatics and the Xindi-insectoids and the principle actors... Which would be a shame because at least with respect to the aquatics, it would be cool to show a Water polo-trained Archer interacting with the aquatics under water. What a wonderful nod to character consistency that could have been, tapping in on biographical elements originally assigned to the character (being a swimmer). But whatever. :\
The 3 Xindi who could be easily played by actors - the reptillians, the sloth, and the primates (humaniods) were obviously the ones who could interact the most.
Also as you note, the actor playing Loomis has been on previous Treks, the last of which I recall being VOY in "Revulsion" as the maniacal, highly obsessed (yes unstable) hologram "Dejaren". And so throughout "Carpenter Street", I was left with imagining this guy in terms of that hologram... ;-)
You're right about this thing with time travelling Xindi. Who the heck got them back there? FutureGuy apparently hasn't shown an ability to move himself, let alone any of his pawns through time like that. Why bother experimenting and perfecting (and hiding) a weapon in the 21st century? They could do like those aliens in TNG "Time's Arrow I & II" and just use a "plague" as a cover to wipe out humanity back then (well in their case, humans = food via neural energy or something like that). If you want to hide something, why not in the future?
But... although alot of the comments I've seen claim nothing happened at the end, there was something that happened at the end... Archer got 3 Xindi, and a pile of Xindi technology (along with one particular bioweapon's cannister) to play with... So I guess we'll have to wait until January to find out what happens
NEXT TIME ON STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE
;-)
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701
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Yes I was on a long and difficult flight after a long and difficult family get together and my brain must have lost track of the information on all the varioux Xindi species. You're right, it was the Reptilian.
And now that you've mentioned it I'm sure Braga is already producing a script in which Archer convinces the acquatic Xindi of humanity's peaceful intentions through a game of water polo (-:
And yes you're right in that there are arc implications of Archer getting the Xindi back to Enterprise. We'll see if that ends up being followed up on but it doesn't really redeem the episode. And while the Loomis actor was great in Revulsion, here he's mostly wasted playing a sleazy two bit pawn.
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You're right about this thing with time travelling Xindi. Who the heck got them back there? FutureGuy apparently hasn't shown an ability to move himself, let alone any of his pawns through time like that.
The Xindi Future Guy has been shown to be able to transport objects like the various components used in the probe that attacked Earth. He transported the RX back to Earth
In Rajiin the RX councilmember made it clear the faction working with them suggested a bioweapon over the energy one
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Why bother experimenting and perfecting (and hiding) a weapon in the 21st century?
They needed test subjects to perfect the virus to make sure it affected all humans. They certainly couldn't have traveled to 22nd century earth to kidnap humnas it would be too dangerous for them but in 21st century humnas are unaware of Xindi threat and less likely to be detected
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You know, the more I think about it, this episode makes no sense whatsoever :)
It was a kind of fun episode in and of itself, but it makes no sense in relation to the Xindi arc or in relation to anything really. I keep trying to think of some way that any of it makes sense because I sure would like it to :)
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Archer got 3 Xindi, and a pile of Xindi technology (along with one particular bioweapon's cannister) to play with
Yeah, well I guess that's something. If only it was wrapped in an episode that made sense.
BTW Deus you need to edit your review, your use of 'Insectoid' throughout looks pretty silly.
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Good review, I pretty much agree with you on this ep.
However, I think you're confusing insectoids with reptilians; insectoids are the CGI ones..
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