"Now New and Improved!" | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:50:03 on Jul 21, 2008 | (1)

Quote from Mr Phatt:
Times have changed, and film makers cannot get away with that kind of story telling anymore, and while I have unlimited affection for the original series, thats the unfortunate reality.


You've jumbled several separate notions, and confuse story with medium, while promoting a video-arcade level of amusement.

Scenery and backdrop are for context, they aren't the storytelling. For GR's purposes, virtually every TOS story could readily transpose into a wild frontier "cowboys and indians" setting, with sweaty horses and smoking six-shooters instead of beaming and phasers.

The job of marketeers is to convince the consumer that every sweet apple is better when it's "enhanced" by the latest and greatest in colorful candy. After you've developed an appetite for processed sugar, the original fruit doesn't gratify. This is all the more true for viewers who are weaned on the superficial additives. Eventually, even a poison can become essential to what feels "right" for the fashionable addict.

Once upon a time, there were only ink-on-paper novels by "real" authors. Fans had to be literate, and they were compelled to actually use their mind's eye. TOS champions that standard among TV series.

Today, attention-deficit herds will reward the box-office for "modern" saccharin, in return for an optically triggered brain-chemistry "high", in under two hours, without thought enough to learn the spelling of SFX.

That is the unfortunate reality of a commercialized "New and Improved!" jingle culture.


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Star Trek: Romulans - Hollow Crown #1 (of 2)

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Repackaging | Report this post to moderator
By: Mr Phatt (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:58:38 on Jul 21, 2008 | (1)

Well I've been a fan of the original series from the beginning and I for one am glad that they have repackaged it.

Also I can certainly say that I don't have an attention deficit disorder simply because I enjoy the Original Series even more now because they upgraded the special effects. I can now become even more involved with the story without being yanked out of it by horrendous special effects. There was nothing more jarring than watching Tomorrow is Yesterday and watching a special effects sequence where the Enterprise is supposedly undergoing a sling shot manoeuvre around the sun and all we get to see are some atrocious shots of it wobbling around in space.

We don't live in the 1960's anymore. Times have changed, and film makers cannot get away with that kind of story telling anymore, and while I have unlimited affection for the original series, thats the unfortunate reality.

I think it takes a forward thinking individual to recognise that Star Trek does need a new wrapper. Star Trek is all about being forward thinking, its about evolving, and Star Trek needs to evolve if it is going to survive, and it can only do that if it appeals to a new generation. The current generation of fans won't live forever, and when they go so will Star Trek if they are its only audience.

I would love to see those classic and iconic characters of Kirk, Spock and McCoy continue to entertain a new generation of people, and I see this new movie as neccessary in order to achieve that.

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By The Book | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:38:31 on Jul 20, 2008

Quote from Hober Mallow:
As to Collins's remarks representing a larger issue, no one's who has made that assertion has proven his point.


The irony is that, like Collins, you too buy into the larger issue. And you don't recognize this, thus you also affirm the "Can't see the forest for the trees" idiom.

Few people would be so (obviously) closed-minded as to admit they judge books by their covers -- but that's precisely what's happening when a person won't watch classic sci-fi (such as TOS) because of its retro window-dressing.

An attention-deficit audience refuses to engage the story, simply because of the wrapper it comes in.


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ST is cheesy-looking | Report this post to moderator
By: Hober Mallow (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:06:37 on Jul 20, 2008

I've was watching the adventures of the original NCC-1701 long before there was a bloody A, B, C, or D. To me, there is only one Star Trek. It's not the TOS or "The Original Series," it's just called Star Trek. I would be perfectly happy if all future Trek totally ignored all the spinoffs.

That said... the original Star Trek *is* cheesy-looking. As a long-time fan, I can totally understand Collin's reaction. That cheese factor 10 is what's killing Star Trek, keeping the modern audience from seeing what ST is really all about and appreciating it. That's why ST needs an update, to keep it relevent so the true message of ST resonates with a new audience.

Will the new movie suck? It could very well. I'd personally prefer a story by a real SF author.

As to Collins's remarks representing a larger issue, no one's who has made that assertion has proven his point. When one makes an assertion, the burden of proof is entirely upon that person.



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"It's fiction. It's not supposed to make sense." --a Trekweb poster defending Brannon Braga's scripts

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Comprehension Interruptus? | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:25:13 on Jul 19, 2008

Quote from Mr Phatt:
It's really inconsequential if Collins doesn't like Star Trek and finds it cheesy.


As noted here, several times by several posters: Collins' remarks represent a LARGER ISSUE about audiences in general.

The heart of the matter is presented in this thread, for anyone who's able to comprehend the words.



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Star Trek: Romulans - Hollow Crown #1 (of 2)

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Unbalanced Fans | Report this post to moderator
By: Mr Phatt (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:30:29 on Jul 19, 2008 | (1)

Arrgghhh!!!

I can't stand this anymore!! I have stayed silent for too long and after having read all of this i've had to say something.

rassmguy and cdydatzigs are about the only two people in this thread that have had sensible and balanced things to say.

TRexx you have proven yourself to be an extremely unbalanced individual on this topic. There is no need to attack Steve personally by means of derogatory comments. And please don't mention that he attacked you first because he stated: "This is probably the single-most predictable reaction to this kind of interview you can find on a Star Trek news web site."

This comment is observation and not an attack. If anything it accurately descibes the unbalanced nature of many fans.

It's really inconsequential if Collins doesn't like Star Trek and finds it cheesy. WHO CARES!! The success of this movie is not going to ride on whether he likes it or not. I love the original Star Trek and I don't care if he doesn't. I also don't care if other fans don't like it . Big bloody whoop!! It's just a damn TV show!

He is just an actor who was hired to do a job. As rassmguy said, Alec Guinness hated scifi and was less than stellar about the idea of working on Star Wars but I'm still glad he was a part of it, because he did a terrific job.

Please try not to be so damning of those who are under no obligation to like the things that you do.

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The Ding-a-ling Dingbat | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:35:26 on Jul 17, 2008

Quote from cdydatzigs:
You couldn't be any more right.


You couldn't be more oblivious to an issue that applies to TV and movies in general, due to the audience of "eye candy" junkies.

You're barely conscious enough to dribble more stupor into your keyboard.


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Star Trek Assignment Earth #3

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Ding ding ding! | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:01:17 on Jul 17, 2008

Quote:
Bingo. Those getting offended by his comments might want to recall Shatner's classic SNL sketch.

You couldn't be any more right. In fact I believe Jon Lovitz played Trexx in that sketch.

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-- Steve



My film Normal Heights is in: Pre-production (story development)

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The Zombie Dialogs | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 16:18:07 on Jul 17, 2008

Quote from cdydatzigs:
Last time I checked...


Once again, there's nothing in your response that addresses anything I've posted here. You're completely disjointed from the topic at hand, as usual, likely because of severe comprehension problems.

As others here have recognized, Collins both makes and illustrates the point of discussion.

Meanwhile, you're posting entirely irrelevant dialog from the voices in your head.


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Hey, how about learning not to judge things based on how they look? | Report this post to moderator
By: the quickening (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:06:32 on Jul 17, 2008

What I found curious in his comments was he was unwilling or unable to look beyond the so called "cheese" and see underneath--see and understand what TOS is really all about. Does that denote his lack of patience and understanding? His shallowness? Is he a person who judges things based only on how they look? Or, is it simply not his cup of tea? Don't know. Since it could mean all or some of the above, I'm glad he is just a minor actor in the movie and has little to do with major decision making regarding the film, which is a great thing. I would want an artist making this movie who has the ability to use his inner eye, and can look beyond the superficial, and not make judgments based on how something looks.

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Missed my point yet again.. | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:55:27 on Jul 17, 2008 | (1)

Quote:
Collins' remarks raise an issue that applies to ANYONE who says classic sci-fi such as TOS is unwatchable and that something newer is the real deal. You speak on behalf of an attention-deficit audience that'll "outgrow" sci-fi material you've never even seen, particularly if it's "old."

Actually, I never said I agreed with the guy. I have been DVR'ing all of the remastered TOS episodes every Sunday night because I very much enjoy TOS. So you are wrong.

If you actually READ what I said (rather than trying to find yet another reason to use 'non-sequitor' in a sentence), you would have noticed that I was simply defending the actor for giving a candid response. If you actually knew a thing about the entertainment industry, you would know that as an actor you are unemployed more often than you are working. Last time I checked, there was no requirement by the studio that you had to be a fan of Star Trek in order to work within its franchise. Wake up idiot.


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-- Steve



My film Normal Heights is in: Pre-production (story development)

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Everything Melts To Cheese Eventually | Report this post to moderator
By: PeteFernbaugh (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:10:03 on Jul 17, 2008

More than having a point, Collins illustrates a point.

People tend to regard the entertainment of their generation with an unintentional haughtiness. We sneer at the shows and movies of decades past, dismissing them as being "cheesy and antiquated." We see our productions and fads as being superior to all those that have come before it. Better effects, better writing, etc.

It's a shortsighted and unthinking attitude, really. For everything that is highly regarded today as entertainment and top of the drawer will eventually look "cheesy and antiquated" to future generations. This includes Abrams "new, improved, and reinvented" Trek XI.

No doubt, fifty years from now, when Paramount is looking to reinvent Abrams' Trek, at least one of the actors hired to replace Pine, Quinto, Collins, et al, will say, "Trek XI? Sure, I tried to watch it. Couldn't do it, though...too cheesy."

History does only one thing...it repeats itself. Like television reruns.

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blah blah blah blah | Report this post to moderator
By: Hugh Jass (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:09:10 on Jul 17, 2008

Hey, at least he's honest about how he feels about the old Trek!

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Narf!

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UFO Dufus | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:02:26 on Jul 17, 2008 | (1)

Quote from cdydatzigs:
This is probably the single-most predictable reaction to this kind of interview you can find on a Star Trek news web site.


Again and again, you're unable to process what's actually posted here -- so your response is another non-sequitur monologue from a little yellow script of soundbites in your head.

Collins' remarks raise an issue that applies to ANYONE who says classic sci-fi such as TOS is unwatchable and that something newer is the "real deal."

You speak on behalf of an attention-deficit audience that'll "outgrow" sci-fi material you've never even seen, particularly if it's "old."

You're the prized possession of a commercialized "New and Improved!" jingle culture that does not encourage its consumers to think.


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Mission: Impossible - S4 starring Leonard Nimoy

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You don't have to be a Trek nerd to act in a Trek movie. | Report this post to moderator
By: cdydatzigs (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:39:22 on Jul 17, 2008 | (1)

Quote:
With all due respect, Mr. Collins, if you can't get your head around TOS then you don't understand Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek -- which means you wouldn't know the "real deal" even if it beamed directly into your living room. The perception problem is yours, sir.

This is probably the single-most predictable reaction to this kind of interview you can find on a Star Trek news web site. I know it is difficult for the diehard fan to think objectively and NOT sink their talons into a non-fan's forehead over honest comments such as his, but please remember:

(1) Acting in a Star Trek production is a JOB. It is an occupation from which these people make a living. Just because you are a fan and would leave a wet spot as soon as you were fitted for a uniform, doesn't mean that everyone who works there is going to.

(2) We have a fondness for the 1960's "quaintness" that TOS had because we are fans of the franchise. He is not, and there is nothing wrong with that!

I mean jeez, some of you should have betting lines at Las Vegas in terms of what your recations to these interviews are gonna be! Myself and Shatner included :)

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-- Steve



My film Normal Heights is in: Pre-production (story development)

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I hate to admit it.. | Report this post to moderator
By: The_Chief (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:49:53 on Jul 17, 2008

But he's kind of right. The show was made in the 60's and it's cheesy sets, cheap special effects, greasy makeup and corny music do make it less than palatable to today's audience. We've gotten so accustomed to today's slickly polished and hip sci fi shows that modern audiences have forgotten what REAL science fiction has the potential to be.

With Star Trek, to me, it's not about the window dressing...it's about what's in the house. Hopefully, the new film will take the spirit of what makes Star Trek so great, wrap it in a shiny new wrapper, and introduce it to people who never gave it a chance before. Perhaps then they'll look back at the original and say, "Hey, maybe this wasn't so bad after all..."

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spoiler alert | Report this post to moderator
By: Sherlock (Odo's file, contact) @ 06:45:39 on Jul 17, 2008

This story needs a spoiler alert:
"Ignoramus who does not appreciate TOS gets role as Romulan.There must be more enthusiastic actors available".

Heck, they could have given me the bit part. I would atleast bring some gusto and respect to it and treat it as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

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Color Collins Blind | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 05:37:53 on Jul 17, 2008

Quote from Clifton Collins:
"I tried to watch some of the old 'Star Treks' and with all due respect, they were probably cool at the time, but I couldn't watch them."


With all due respect, Mr. Collins, if you can't get your head around TOS then you don't understand Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek -- which means you wouldn't know the "real deal" even if it beamed directly into your living room (which TOS continues to do, via worldwide TV reruns).

A constant and indiscriminate craving for something "new but realistic" is what Paramount feeds by giving TOS a CGI facelift. Ditto for the colorization of some classic black-and-white films.

The perception problem is yours, sir.


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Mission: Impossible - Season 5 with Leonard Nimoy

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