No I don't think she's a nut. I just think she's missing some of the subtleties of the conclusions that those Star Trek episodes come to. Clearly they will (knowingly or unknowingly?) manipulate Star Trek as they have the Bible, to "prove" their points and persuade a public that seeks black and white in a gray world.
I think that what those Star Trek episodes are commenting on, is the MISUSE of technology, not that the technology itself is an inherent evil. Technology has always brought some bad along with a whole lot of good. Genetic manipulation is what we're talking about here, and if a stem cell constitutes a sentient being and is therefore protected by our constitution. I'm not yet sure about the latter, but as for genetic manipulation, in Star Trek, as in real life, this can and has brought a lot of good to a lot of people. But yes, the lessons that Star Trek teaches is that we need to be awfully careful how we use it. Cloning someone without their permission is clearly wrong, for instance. And treating a clone, once created, as property rather than person is also clearly wrong. Star Trek agrees with this. Whether or not this describes a stem cell or not is the question. I know of no place where Star Trek offers an opinion on this.
When drugs and vaccines were invented it ultimately lead the way for chemical and biological warfare. Does that mean we never should have pursued medicine? Maybe what we do need to do is put away childish things, stop drawing black and white squares in a colorful, round world, and grow up as a race. On this subject Star Trek is quite clear. Don't know if this is a "liberal" attittude or a "conservative"one. Don't care either. Where did faux lables ever get us anyway? Star Trek's quite clear about this attitude as well, Ms. Schaub.
Because I don't think we've been watching the same show...
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I will not let this Republic that has stood for a thousand years be split in two. My negotiations will not fail. -Supreme Chancellor Palpatine
oh puh-leeze! don't be silly, silly. it doesn't take a religious "fanatic" to disagree on issues such as stem cell research; sometimes all it takes is a lifelong love of the 'what if' nature of science fiction to wonder about these issues. as well as extoling the virtues of scientific research, there is a vast body of literature out there that also ponders the scarrier 'what if' scenarios and ethical questions such as "is it ethical to create life just to destroy it for the benefit of others"...it was once noted in a star trek movie that one characters compassion was not limited to her estimation of the intelligence of creatures (whales in that particlar case)...now medical ethics are such that the end justifies the means and anyone "different" (especially those 'religious fanatics, eh?) better watch out or the courts can rule them brain dead and starve them to death for the betterment of society...as for abortion, when planned parenthood points out that over 90% of all abortions are for birth control, couldn't one conclude that we as a society are deciding who lives and who dies based on how convenient it is to have them around? margaret sangor -one of the founders of planned parenthood - once stated, "Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need ... We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock." naturally, the 'bad stock' to the eugenics movement were often minorities...issues such as this very much have a place in science fiction because science - while it does offer much hope - also offers great peril. it is 100% legitimate to state, "Nobody said there weren't risks, but lets look at them in a realistic fashion, instead of flipping out" (kirk said as much in 'return to tomorrow" in his cat-gut speech) but to then go on and claim that concerns over serious issues is "..a complete refusal to examine the issues" is just silly because to not raise these very concerbns would also constitute a "refusal to examine the issues".
The Daily Press reports that White House nominees to the Base Realignment and Closure Commission include a STAR TREK fan who aspires to be an extra. "I would do anything. I'd be a Klingon, I'd be a Romulan," said former Nevada Democrat James Bilbray, who once ordered the FBI to investigate Bob Lazar's Majestic-12 work at Los Alamos National Laboratories.
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Farewell Comments from the ENT Cast
She's from the same group that thought the Teletubbies and Spongebob are gay, the same political group as those who oppose abortion but vehemently oppose bans on assault rifles.
...when she's right, she's right.
before jumping to the conclusion that ms. schaub is an idiot, i would suggest reading the entire article at Methuselah and Us
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/4/schaub.htm
undefined . . .yes, gene roddenberry was a liberal humanist but how can one watch "space seed" and conclude that there is no danger inherent with the genetic manipuation of the human race? progressives in the early 20th century managed to enact eugencics policies into law and they resulted in horrendous human rights abuses and, ultimately, the nazi quest for a master race...those who don't think that star trek commented on morality...her concerns regarding the dangers of creating life simply to enslave and experiment on it shows far more awareness of science fiction themes than the knee-jerk reactions of those who may claim to believe in the IDIC philosophy but who don't actually practice it in their own lives...to them it seems that just because she thinks differently than they do, she must be a shill for extremist radicals...the irony is that the current bush administration is the first to provide funding for fetal stem cell research (on existing lines)...i say lets see what scientists can do with what they already have before we decide to create yet more humans to experiment on...star trek (and science fiction) are great forums to ponder these issues and often illustrate the dangers of out of control science...i would simply suggest that people read the entire original article before calling this woman a "nutcase" and perhaps realize that science fiction in general represents many sides of the political spectrum...
Four more years! Four more years!
Oh Christ. This is just too funny. I new their boss was a moron, now it seems he is hiring morons. At least with Reagon he hired intellegent advisors.
What's the real issue here?
Is it cloning? Stem cell research? Bush?
Look, I'm not going to stand on a soap box & preach to you, but look at this...
During the 2nd World War the German scientist performed experiments on the Jews [and whomever else they had, even their own people if need be].
The outcome if what they did, and I'm not excusing it, has resulted in the life we now have.
Not just bio-weapons & rocket ships, but hair dye, contact lenses.
Once on Voyager the Doctor decided to delete a Hologram w/ all the records that holo had, because he could justify using his knowledge.
But did the 'justified' Doctor delete all the medical knowledge steaming from the German experiments?
No.
The stem cells come from aboted, yes aborted fetisis.
Women don't get pregenat to make money off this reseach by donating.
The fetisis have already been aboted, they're dead at this point because someone decided not to have a baby.
Why is nothing said about abortion during this artical?
No abortion, no stem research.
Again, no soap box, but we have the stem cells, and it's the garabge or research, and I vote research.
Let's avoid the discussion of Stem Cells for a moment and look only at cloning. Would most sci-fi writers and viewers believe in the seeding and sowing of clones for their organs? Does it make sense to grow a 20 year old clone to harvest a heart, lung, or kidney for a diseased individual? What do we do with the clone after the prime body dies to unexpected events (accidents, car wrecks, etc.)?
Another Sci-Fi example is in the first Matrix. I remember many of my friends and I discussing the scene most etched in are memories after watching the film the first time. Okay, maybe it was the second or third, but remember the fields and the embryos? How did you react?
Just because the individual is tied to the Bush administration does not mean that these are not good topics to think about today. I mean today before we regret making the decisions one way or another.
So, in addition to killing thousands of people overseas because of his lies, Bush is going to let thousands more die because of his ignorance? I hope everyone who voted for him ends up dying from a disease that could have been cured from stem cells.
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The Slightly Warped Website
These are complex issues that deserves thoughtful attention and I am one of those who believe that eternal life would be a good thing under the right circumstances. But I don't think its possible for humans to achieve this on our own. Perhaps scientists could create some way of cloning a person or expanding that persons lifespan, but case in point: It would be heavily misused in this world we are living in. That's evil.
But people from all times have in some way searched for immortality, and its not isolated to the realms of science. She could very well be opening a huge can of worms, if she tries to oppose this natural human wish to live, and not die.
Using TOS to justify a controversial viewpoint that I, as Trekkie, do not agree with, well.. She doesn't score any points. But its that sentence "not any of the second-rate sequels" that reveals, she will just force her own opinion on people.
Wow she obiously, like so many other these days, dosent understand Trek's liberal message whatsoever, and is a pretty dumb philosopher/scientist too. Either that or she is trying to play the political game using Trek as a weapon, which is pretty low.
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1
Didn't we all go ape shit a few months ago because Tommy Boyd said that Star Trek was influencing the Bush administration's policies?
Looks like he was right.
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"Men don't use sex to get what they want. Sex IS what they want" - Frasier
Am I crazy or did I just read that this lady is using Startrek to justify her views on cloning?
IT'S A FREAKING TV SHOW, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!
Only in america can a goverment attached person make this type of insane comment and not be immediately canned!!
I don't think she understands science much. The stem cells and clones are slaves? I agree that Star Trek is not about showing us the right and wrong, but showing us how to be responsible.
Also, her comment about the other Trek series being second rate was pretty offensive. There are plenty of good examples she could use from those "second rate" shows that help her cause. But I guess it's better she doesn't.
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"Cats are smarter than dogs. You can't get eight cats to pull a sled through snow."
RE: Lame
by ]X-Men[Wolverine @ 00:36:16 on Mar 22
I've watched a number of Sci Fi shows, movies, and books, and I generally get the same idea from most of them. They all seem to caution against cloning, genetic experiments, and artificial intelligence. This is particularly interesting as most sci fi writers strike me as running a bit more liberal. They seem to see that such advancements might create direct threats to the human race. While I wouldn't call sci fi authors the ultimate authority, I would have to say that it is very insightful of them, in part, for seeing such things. I believe we would be well-advised to take such things seriously. The last thing we need are evil clones, super-powerful genetically enhanced beings, or near-perfect androids deciding that homo sapiens are obsolete and ready for extinction.
Well, this is lovely.
Just because someone from the Bush administration professes a love of Star Trek, and gleams something of value from a specific episode, everyone wants to fly off of the handle.
I remember such similar statements when Kate Mulgrew openly challanged the lessons learned from the pilot episode "Caretaker," namely the Newt-inspired speech near the end of the show.
Folks, if it has to be said: it is just a television show that has a vast and diverse audience.
And whatever happened to IDIC, anyway? Or have we now gone to red planets and blue planets too?
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"We should really make a copy of your brain pattern at some point." -- Number Six
I always thought of star trek and gene preaching more of responsibility rather than good or bad. a trial and error thing where humans still aren't perfect but dammit if we aren't trying.
This lady is rediculous, Trek philosophy isn't about deciding what's best for everyone else, it's not about deciding what science is too dangerous or whatever, by the way, who makes that decision? This lady is full of it and goes to show the age old crap pile of twisting words and ideas around to fit what she wants. Heck ANYONE can do that! Anyone remember David Koresh? Jimmy Swaggart? What a nut case. All of these people have twisted words and ideas that were meant for good, and used them for thier own personal agenda. So is this lady. It's annoying when people make fun of trek fans, but what she's doing just pisses me off. Well, it does, in a way, have to do with trek, many times there were small, narrow minded idiots, who didn't have a clue what was really going on....I think this lady might have been an extra on one of these eps...
Gene Roddenberry was an outspoken liberal humanist in every aspect of his public life, who beyond any shadow of a doubt would have considered the Bush administration and all its works an abomination. He would have been profoundly saddened by the spread of intolerance and religious hysteria and bare-knuckle meanness in American life in the years since his death, the siphoning of the healthy creative energy borne of injustice to mindless entertainments, and, worst of all, the death of so much of the hope that inspired the college audiences he spoke to in the '70s and '80s (myself among them). One would hope that in the end, his faith in Man's inherent goodness and potential would remain unfazed, just as my own these days is constantly put to the test. Ms. Schaub is an idiot.
Eugenics is evil, not stem cells.
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"Take a Romulan chill pill and have some faith!"
-Erik Jendresen, writer of Star Trek XI
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-General George S. Patton Jr.
"I am NOT Scorned."
-Scorned as Gage/Gage_2
Okay, what? Pro-stem-cell trekkie, right here!
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SAVE ENTERPRISE
Beyond the rim of star-light, my love is wand'ring in star-flight/ I know he'll find in star-clustered reaches/ Love, strange love a star woman teaches/ I know his journey ends never/ His star trek will go on forever/ but tell him while he wanders his starry sea, remember, remember me.
Bush is no Captain Picard, that's for certain.
-The Doctor
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"That green-blooded Son of a Bitch... It's his revenge for all those arguments he lost to me!"
- Bones
..at least we have evolved the debate from saying "because the Bible says so" to "because Star Trek says so." :)
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