DS9 | Report this post to moderator
By: OB (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:23:11 on Jan 20, 2005

This is my first post. I've always found it interesting that so many people on this website seem to really like DS9. I've probably only seen maybe half of the DS9 episodes, whereas I've seen every episode of TOS, TNG, and Enterprise, and probably 80% of Voyager episodes. I lost interest early on with DS9, but came back to it in the later seasons, when it held my interest more consistently. I'd like to give the show a second chance, and am considering buying a season or two on DVD. I am curious to know what season(s) of DS9 you fans of DS9 would recommend.

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Daystrom Revisited | Report this post to moderator
By: zak (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:51:39 on Jan 18, 2005

I'm usually one who really loves most of the Enterprise episodes. Daedalus,however, was a disappointment. It seemed largely a kind of remake of the DAYSTROM TOS story only with a slight twist. (Noting also the DS9 THE VISITOR). Both the TOS Daystrom and Daedalus stories were about someone who gained great fame at an early age, who found he could never match that again. True, here we also had his son Quinn who had disappeared years before and still somehow existed in some subspatial anomoly or bubble. (But, Quinn really just took the place of Daestroms computer in the TOS episode which, if you recall, had been programmed with Daestroms engrams and so was, (I hate to say it) kind of like Daystrom's son in that story), In Daedalus, the story seemed to be about attempts to get the inventors son back. While in the DAYSTROM chronicle, it was to prove the superiority of the computer. Not all that different. I saw an obvious parallel between the two stories. And,as such, the ending wasn't at all surprisng.

Unfortunately, the inventors ultimate plight, as it was also for Daystrom, seemed kind of dreary, desperate and totally hopeless from the start.

There were other problems in the way the story unfolded as well, or, at least, things that grated on me as I watched. First, there were the almost inexplicable tirades that Archer made in response to very justified crew concerns that he was acting out of personal concern and not being objective. Archer's behavior seemed unexpectedly dictatorial and totally out of character.

It seemed further out of character for Archer later to tell Trip he was on the edge of insubordination if he dared to question his (Archer's) decision again. Worse, on top of that, Archer never showed even one single moment of self-reflection about his behavior, or his decisions. Not once did he look at his angry responses to those concerns, not when they happened, not right after they happened, not later. And, all of that seemed totally out of character.

I've really enjoyed ENTERPRISE this season. And,
after a series of, what I found to be, largely stellar (no pun intended) episodes up till now, one after the other (with of course there always being some things that could've been better, but all vastly entertaining, and nicely presented consecutively), this dreary drama was a disappointment
Perhaps it hit me in the wrong way or at the wrong time,as even DEUS saw many more redeeming qualities in it than I did.(Even the conversations between Trip and T'pal seemed forced, awkward and unlikely.

Nevertheless, it hasn't daunted my overall enthusiasm for the series, but when Daedalus rolls around again as a repeat, it's likely I'll be somewhere else.

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Daystrom Revisited | Report this post to moderator
By: zak (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:51:03 on Jan 18, 2005

I'm usually one who really loves most of the Enterprise episodes. Daedalus,however, was a disappointment. It seemed largely a kind of remake of the DAYSTROM TOS story only with a slight twist. (Noting also the DS9 THE VISITOR). Both the TOS Daystrom and Daedalus stories were about someone who gained great fame at an early age, who found he could never match that again. True, here we also had his son Quinn who had disappeared years before and still somehow existed in some subspatial anomoly or bubble. (But, Quinn really just took the place of Daestroms computer in the TOS episode which, if you recall, had been programmed with Daestroms engrams and so was, (I hate to say it) kind of like Daystrom's son in that story), In Daedalus, the story seemed to be about attempts to get the inventors son back. While in the DAYSTROM chronicle, it was to prove the superiority of the computer. Not all that different. I saw an obvious parallel between the two stories. And,as such, the ending wasn't at all surprisng.

Unfortunately, the inventors ultimate plight, as it was also for Daystrom, seemed kind of dreary, desperate and totally hopeless from the start.

There were other problems in the way the story unfolded as well, or, at least, things that grated on me as I watched. First, there were the almost inexplicable tirades that Archer made in response to very justified crew concerns that he was acting out of personal concern and not being objective. Archer's behavior seemed unexpectedly dictatorial and totally out of character.

It seemed further out of character for Archer later to tell Trip he was on the edge of insubordination if he dared to question his (Archer's) decision again. Worse, on top of that, Archer never showed even one single moment of self-reflection about his behavior, or his decisions. Not once did he look at his angry responses to those concerns, not when they happened, not right after they happened, not later. And, all of that seemed totally out of character.

I've really enjoyed ENTERPRISE this season. And,
after a series of, what I found to be, largely stellar (no pun intended) episodes up till now, one after the other (with of course there always being some things that could've been better, but all vastly entertaining, and nicely presented consecutively), this dreary drama was a disappointment
Perhaps it hit me in the wrong way or at the wrong time,as even DEUS saw many more redeeming qualities in it than I did.(Even the conversations between Trip and T'pal seemed forced, awkward and unlikely.

Nevertheless, it hasn't daunted my overall enthusiasm for the series, but when Daedalus rolls around again as a repeat, it's likely I'll be somewhere else.

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Well, I liked it... | Report this post to moderator
By: Cap'n Calhoun (Odo's file, contact) @ 01:55:30 on Jan 18, 2005

I thought this was a really strong stand-alone episode. I'm surprised that there haven't been more positive comments so far. The twist was a little obvious, but I liked the subtlety of the title (as SkyGuy pointed out), the strong guest star (in my opinion), the truly human (if a bit confusing) plot, the mention of all of the concerns with early transporters that fleshed out the universe a little more (although I'm still hoping Enterprise will show a case of transporter psychosis ["Realm of Fear", TNG] someday), and the wonderful resolution to some of the T'Pol subplots that they managed to sneak in (as deltaflyer mentioned). It's not the best episode of all time, but it was a good, strong stand-alone ep.

Incidentally, Deus, are you still giving numeric ratings? Last few epsiodes, all I've seen is:

Quote:
Title: "Daedalus" [or whatever]

Overall: Overall
Performances: Performances
Writing: Writing
Direction: Directing
FX & Prod Value: FX etc


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"You know what six movies average out to be really good? The first six Star Trek movies!" -- Fry, Futurama

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B-plot?? | Report this post to moderator
By: deltaflyer (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:17:30 on Jan 17, 2005

I liked the review but there's no mention of the T'pol B-plot which in my opinion was excellent...quite an oversight. After all T'pol is becoming more rational, more Vulcan and this was a defining episode for her character.

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Yes I am Australian...AND NO I DO NOT OWN A KANGAROO! And it's typical that we were made the last ones to join the federation....

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A more concise review of Daedalus | Report this post to moderator
By: kzoodata (Odo's file, contact) @ 22:09:06 on Jan 17, 2005

sssnnnnnnnxxxxxxx........

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Enough with the wretched comparisons to Deep Sleep 9. | Report this post to moderator
By: motionblur (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:29:46 on Jan 17, 2005

Newsflash: DS9 was terrible. It suffered from worse acting than YOV and was boring as hell. Give it up already!

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ep title | Report this post to moderator
By: SkyGuy (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:26:28 on Jan 17, 2005

Deus wrote
"... the tragedy of a genius falling through his own conscience and the decisions he makes."

Deus, I'm surprised you didn't bring home the ep title to support this point. Part way through watching it, I realized that the "anomaly" was Emory's lost son -- that Emory was "Daedalus" and his son was "Icarus" who disregarded his father's warnings and figuratively "flew too close to the Sun." Though the ep wasn't all that great, Coto & Co. should be commended for bringing in this TOS-like play on words.


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GET A LIFE, will you people? I mean, for crying out loud, it's just a TV show!.... You've turned an enjoyable little job, that I did as a lark for a few years, into a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME! -- William Shatner on Saturday Night Live (1986)

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Deus you're far too kind | Report this post to moderator
By: Sphire (Odo's file, contact) @ 14:38:17 on Jan 17, 2005

After the mostly negative reviews you gave to other S4 episodes that were far superior to this one, I'm surprised you weren't harder on Daedalus. The things you cited as the episode's failings (i.e. Bill Cobbs, the destructive ghost) were actually the strongest points in my opinion. Everything else was badly conceived and executed.

They really dropped the ball by only briefly addressing the practical and philosophical consequences of transporter technology. There's a great episode to be made on that subject alone, and this wasn't it. Coto has been mostly hitting the right notes this season, so it's disappointing that he missed such an obvious opportunity.

Overall, this was a tedious, ponderous, poorly-written episode that would not have been out of place in the first two seasons. I almost fell asleep more than once. The episode basically kneecapped itself by revealing Erickson's true intentions so early. It would have had far more dramatic resonance if the true nature of the ghost, and Erickson's knowledge of it, would have been revealed closer to the end.

The scenes between Trip and T'Pol were horribly written. Trineer was probably trying his best under the circumstances, but Blalock is obviously losing interest fast. There's a difference between acting reserved and not acting at all, and Blalock phoned in that performance. Bakula fared no better. When he was barking orders at Trip, he just didn't have the air of authority that Stewart or Brooks would have.

And once again, there were negligible roles for Travis and Hoshi. This would make a good running joke, if not for the fact that it stopped being funny about two seasons ago. Either use them or drop them, because this is getting ridiculous.

After some impressive episodes this season, this was a real letdown. The fact that ENT's worst episode of the season aired the same night as BSG's premiere will make ENT look even more inferior than it already is.

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Odyssey 5 Girl | Report this post to moderator
By: sbender (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:14:23 on Jan 17, 2005 | (1)

sorry, double post

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Odyssey 5 Girl | Report this post to moderator
By: sbender (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:14:07 on Jan 17, 2005

Did anyone besides me recognize the girl from Odyssey 5 in this episode? I bet Manny Coto had something to do with that.

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A cheap episode... | Report this post to moderator
By: NAFF (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:13:49 on Jan 17, 2005

...and not a good one.

At least the high-jinks of previous Season 4 episodes have gone.

And so, it seems, has the budget.

This was like a Next Gen 'B' story.

And that is all the discussion this episode deserves.

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