I know this will all likely fall on deaf ears but here's a wild idea. Instead of screaming, pounding chests and throwing various filth at each other...how about an actual discussion?
Talkbacks are often bad but this episode's seems to be particularly awfull. I know namecalling is ever so much fun and people have gotten used to it particularly on the boards here where abuse is the point. But none of this accomplishes anything and maybe something could be gained if the anti and pro-enterprise fanctions actually debated and discussed the points instead of shrieking and gibbering.
The feedback has often gotten so nasty that I don't bother looking or reading at it anymore. It's not because I have a thin skin but because I know it'll consist of the same dozen people yelling the same things ad nauseum who will dominate it preventing any kind of discussion from happening. And that's sad because there are people here who have contributed and are capable of contributing to the subject.
I'm not even pushing civility as an ethical virtue but just the simple fact that with people shouting back and forth 'Enterprise Sux' and 'Enterprise Rulz' and 'You Suck' and 'No You Suck' the result is just a pointless mess. If you want to challenge points it's one thing, but hysterical dementia gets you and everyone else nowhere.
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"Every terrorist is at war with civilization, and every group or nation that aids them is equally responsible for the murders that the terrorists commit. They kill without mercy. They kill without shame. And they count their victories in the death of the innocent...They have declared war on the civilized world -- and war is what they got."
President Bush
THE INTERNET -- Today a shortage of punctuation led to nearly unreadable articles the world over. Notably, the popular Star Trek fan site "TrekWeb" suffered when a lengthy review by O. Deus was rendered nearly unreadable due to this grammatical tragedy.
First, the appositives suffered:
Quote:
The final third part of the Vulcan arc is the most action packed of the three paying off on much of the material that had been set up by the far slower and often more turgid previous two episodes.
Then they combined with compound sentences in a tragedy that still has left thousands unable to follow simple sentences.
Quote:
Ultimately a lot of the action scenes such as Archer fighting the Vulcans as T'Pol is captured are superfluous and really don't do much for the story but they still speed up the pace and make the episode flow quicker at the very least as a substitute for much of the pointless arguments that characterized Awakening.
Read how a few simple sentences from this article would have benefitted greatly were these markers available:
Quote:
The highlight of the episode, though, is, unsurprisingly enough, Shran , who, thanks to Jeffrey Combs always wonderful performances, immediately brings life to any scene or episode.
Alas, O. Deus' nearly unlimited supply of appositives still renders the sentence nearly unreadable even when more thoroughly punctuated. Also, the as yet unbroken shortage of aprostraphes prevents Jeffrey Combs from truly posessing his own performances in the above statement.
The sad truth is, however, that even all of the commas in the world may not have been able to save TrekWeb readers from run-on sentences such as the following excerpt:
Quote:
Indeed Shran's scenes with Ambassador Soval are the most compelling moments that Kir'Shara or any episode in the three part arc or for that matter this season have to offer and are highly reminiscent of Garak's interrogations of Odo.
But, still, having included such phrases as "of course" in comma-delimited appositives would have helped readers to no end.
Quote:
This is of course somewhat ironic since these scenes also stray from the episode's format of 'Archer with Surak in his Head Saves Vulcan' but at the same time point the way to something far deeper which is Andorian and Vulcan reconciliation.
Further horrid examples flowed on and on to such an extent that to list them here would result in an article longer than the original. Periods were sometimes employed in order to make the topics far more readable, with the only downside being a few sentences that began with conjunctions.
Quote:
He's not acting like a Vulcan or even a Romulan but every villain cliche in the book right down to detaining a minister who protests against his actions. And of course his downfall comes in cliched villain style as Archer and T'Pau saunter into the room and put everything to rights in a matter of minutes.
Although any grammar teacher would cringe at such things, they have been found to be acceptable on occasion. Grammatical blunders continued until a small supply of commas that had been flown in saved much of the rest of the article. True some were omitted, and others were used in the places of periods or semicolons...
Quote:
In Awakening Surak claimed that even Syran himself was too corrupted to properly be the guardian of his teachings, by Kir'Shara simply flashing some of Surak's teaching on a holographic screen was enough to end all the violence.
...but, eventually, some found their proper places...
Quote:
It's possible to quibble that humans are once again getting foolishly involved in a conflict between two species, either of which could blow the Enterprise to bits, but the door closed on that particular objection years ago.
...while others attempted to form appositives, but were foiled by a lack of teamwork with other commas, whereas periods filled the places of still others...
Quote:
Still Enterprise attacking a Vulcan cruiser, considering the disparity in firepower hangs on the lunatic fringe. As it taking sides in a conflict in which neither side is all that clean.
We're hoping that this shortage will end soon, once again resulting in readable articles everywhere. Hopefully this news item has not used the remaining supply of commas, but U.N. forces will soon be shipping in more, following their recent successful shipments of consonants to Ethiopia and the subsequent shipment of vowels to Bosnia (see article). While some may say that any article is doomed to face some grammatical errors (just as I'm sure this one has as well) and certainly there are some areas where comma usage is worthy of debate, hopefully such large scale tragedies as this can be prevented in the future.
Reported by wise guy on TrekWeb.
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"You know what six movies average out to be really good? The first six Star Trek movies!" -- Fry, Futurama
I have to admit, nine episodes into season four and I am somewhat unimpressed with what I have seen. Of course, I didn’t expect Manny Coto to simply step in and weave a magic blanket over the tinkering Rick Berman and Brannon Braga had etched into this show during its initial outing. I expected it would take time to get things right, but frankly, I never pledged full faith in the man himself; I was cautious but optimistic. I wanted to see what he was capable of as much as the next person, but I wasn’t expecting him to snap his stubby fingers and right all the wrongs straight away. Still, season four has been a worthy entrant into the franchise, and has even set out to give us a new angle on what has come before it.
Let me get one thing straight. While I understand and can see where B&B went wrong, I feel they did deliver us an enjoyable debut and sophomore season. Yes, the characters were paper-thin, yes it was too focused on digital effects rather than optimistic ideas and ripe stories, but it was a promising start. Season three was a step in the right direction; admittedly not as good as promised, and there still wasn’t enough focus on the characters, but it was doing something right. It told a good, engaging story and made the viewer aware of its on-screen presence.
I enjoy Enterprise; I enjoyed it during season one and two, while admitting its many weaknesses and failings, but I enjoyed it all the same. While I think that even its third year couldn’t hold a candle to any of the DS9 seasons (yes, even the abbreviated first season), I began to sit up and wonder, wonder whether B&B were actually prepared to now do the right thing and really get down and dirty with quality storytelling and strong characters.
When I heard that they were relinquishing control of the series to Odyssey creator Manny Coto, I was neither joyous nor disapproving. As mentioned above, I remained cautious.
Critics have suddenly turned 180 on Enterprise of late, proclaiming it as a show maturing, a show finally realising its potential. Now, I am sorry, but am I alone in thinking that nine episodes into season three, this time last year, Enterprise seemed much more progressive and more mature than it does now? I can’t help but feel Enterprise has take something of a step backwards during the last nine episodes. All the steam and ambition built last year has dissipated, all the energy has burnt out and now we have a show that seems to think it can flaunt some Original Series references and get away with glowing reviews.
Don’t get me wrong, I have enjoyed this first venture into a new Enterprise, it has been good. But why, oh, why are the critics suddenly having illusions of grandeur? I am sorry, but to me season four has done nothing new, its writing quality has not shown improvement, nor has its respect for the character growth, which is already something of a no-show on Enterprise as it is. Season four has not in any way demonstrated the ability to branch out or do something special. It has not done anything other than psychologically weave itself into new hands to differentiate itself from B&B's version of this show.
O.Deus receives some backlash from the readers of TrekWeb for simply expressing his opinion, much in the same way, I am sure, that others who oppose my critique will do so too. I don't always agree with O.Deus, but his judgement on season four has been the closest that mirrors my experience with it so far. Time will tell of course, but so far I am not entirely convinced. It further confuses me when I see that over 70% of voters pledge a perfect score to the recent slew of episodes, including the bore-fest that was 'Awakening', an episode that received practically unanimous praise, yet bored me half to death with its unfocused editing, and bland dialogue and drab settings. I'd be willing to bet that the same episode scribed in B&B's seasons would have been viewed much more differently by the fans, not for good, but for worse.
Is Enterprise being subjected to physiological brainwashing? I can't help but think so. If it keeps receiving the kind of over-the-top praise it has had recently, then the powers that be could become over confident in their abilities, and reduce the show to the kinds of episodes and stories we have had already. If fans are genuinely happy with that, then so be it, but my wandering attention needs more than just a few oddball homage’s and ‘decent’ scripting to keep me alert, it needs strength in numbers, it needs entertainment.
I agree with Deus. Although the story did set up the Vulcan / Andorian reconciliation, and take Earth to the next step in their space faring evolution, the story itself was loose and not very compelling. Granted there were a lot of plot devices thrown in in the attempt to keep it interesting, but for the most part, they missed.
The premise, however, was unbelievable. The bombing of the Earth embassy was a terrorist attack that the Andorians had nothing to do with. And, there was no evidence the Andorians had kept any of the Xindi technology. Are we that stupid to accept the idea that a respected world leader (V’Las) would use such a terrorist attack as an excuse to manufacture rumors of weapons of mass destruction in order to launch a pre-emptive strike against an unrelated target?
No wait…
Never mind.
Good review, Deus.
The Reeves-Stevens' are gracious in thanking B&B and others for their "contributions" to the Vulcan arc, but the end result onscreen is familiar Berman Trek. The one and only Vulcan character in the story, Arev/Syrran, is promptly cast aside as inferior to the superhuman -- the supervulcan -- Archer. Why did V'Las get the humans involved, whom he fears? The story is based on a nonsensical premise. Does lowering Soval's "emotional threshold" release his suppressed barbarian id? No, it brings out his inner child, and what a bawler he is! Just as T'Pol has been a weepy wreck, since being stripped of her mental discipline. This is how B&B+C see the inner Vulcan. Weak.
TOS kiss-blowing is no substitute for sensible and coherent storytelling, which is why S4 viewership lingers below the S3 numbers that brought ENT to the brink of cancellation.
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Shatner @ VH1 Big in '04: "Beam me up, Denny Crane!"
Deus... You said exactly what I'm thinking, again.
Season 4 seems to be more of a "look at me! I've got continuity", as it cartwheels over various Trek trivia and forgets to tell an engaging story. If this trend continues, than the rest of the season will be just as mediocre.
I don't know what the rest of you guys watch, but when I see all this praise for "Borderland" and everything that came after it, I sometimes get the feeling that the shows you watch outside of Enterprise must be utter crap.
With all the stupid arguments I see happening on this site, I see that a lot of you have large amounts of spare time. I suggest read a good book, about Star Trek or otherwise.
No surprise here. In fact, I think I was quite close to predicting the review...
Read O. Deus's Review in advance
Even though I can't see the overall score, by his review, I could guess the episode got a 6 or less (with the arc getting an overall D). But that is no surprise already.
I really think there should more official reviewers. Perhaps Trekweb could hire a second reviewer... one that appears to be a direct opposite to O. Deus. We can let the two battle it out (like Ebert and Roper) while everybody else participates.
But reading the same review week after week is becoming so stale and predictable. I hope I won't have to make anymore O. Deus predictions in the future....
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"We're starfleet officers....weird is part of the job!"
It comes of no surprise Deus didn't like this episode.
In fact, can anyone remember the last time Deus thought Star Trek was good?
Since I've no bashing of Voyager [which UPS props around like the best Trek ever-LOL] but of DSN & TNG I guess Deus must have like that.
Hey Deus, when was the last time you enjoyed Trek?
From what I read, just before "The Man Trap" aired back in '66.
I got an idea Deus, stop watching Trek and you wont be disappointed.
You know, it's funny. Last season, I didn't think you were hard enough on the show. This year, I think you're at best dismissive and at worst blind to its considerable charms.
Enterprise now--finally--is actualizing its potential and doing so on a number of fronts.
Plot-wise, obviously.
But the characters--which are still, broadly speaking, in terrible shape--are being actively deepened in every episode. T'Pol and Trip (indivually, and in terms of their relationship) have been positively resuscitated from the truly bad choices made with them both last year.
T'Pol, in particular, has been pulled back from the intolerable horny/pouty T&A part to which she had been relegated last season and even before.
Now she's becoming more interesting all the time. And Trip was possibly the best thing about last week's episode. He's firmly entrenched in the "Scotty role" now -- in command and causing trouble with gunboat diplomacy when Kirk and Spock are off the ship. I thought this was the smartest and sharpest plot in the episode.
Are either of these characters perfect yet? Hardly. Is the writing perfect? Again, not a chance.
The resolution did fall back on too much moustache-twirling by Robert Foxworth (though I disagree with your assessment about the Romulan coda, which was a flourish that flirted with greatness).
The whole journey to the capital and the way they played the "infiltration" of the high command came off as facile -- the opposite of the dramatically-compelling, and arduous, journey across "The Forge" (which was the best episode the show has ever produced).
On the other hand, this is *obviously* due to the substantially decreased budget, and I think it's important to look at that as a glass half FULL, since they're managing *much* more imaginative storytelling of undeniably higher dramatic quality than they did when they had more money to spend. Why? Good. Writing.
That said, let me quibble with the writing: I lament that last week's episode didn't devote an entire subplot to T'Pol's apparent realization that her mother was right -- she *had* started to believe in the Syrannite philosophy, or, more precisely, recognized it for an articulation of what she already believed, both philosophically and politically. They could have enhanced her clever, but underplayed line, "I'm a Syrannite, we don't lie."
And she might have been a bit more articulate with Koss at the end -- Something on the order of, "I have learned that it is customary among humans at moments such as these to express... gratitude."
But these are quibbles, certainly nothing a polish wouldn't fix (which is not always possible in TV, at least not to the extent writers would like).
Bottom line: it finally feels like we're romping around the TOS neighborhood.
For the first time since the third feature--aka, 20 years--I bought that this was the planet Vulcan, not some generic TNG imposter. Indeed, they went out of their way to make us believe it. We should therefore go out of our way as critics *and* fans to praise and express gratitude for that. ph
I think Deus needs to take a pill. This was a really, really good episode of Star Trek. Period.
I'm sure most everyone caught the Messiah analogy throughout this episode. It was quite a good allegory about a savior and redemption, especially if you follow the savior's teachings. Nice to have some religion in Star Trek.
"Little sense makes this" is how Yoda would say it. But perhaps this characterizes your lack of attention to the little details that make you come off as hating Enterprise in your reviews.
Maybe Battlestar Galactica would be more to your liking, seeing that it's often called the "anti-Trek".
Steve, I hope you're not paying this guy anything.
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"Aha! Advancing on me only brings you closer to the cold wrath that is my spork!" - Bucky the Katt
while I think Dues was a little hard on the Vulcan arc (aside from "Awakening", I thought that episode was just lame) this Vulcan arc was really just a mish-mash of various Trek-continuity related things that didn't quite hang together. The Augments arc had something driving it, an element of jepardoy for one, the old "ticking clock" sceneario and a compelling lead baddie with Spiner and Malik. The Vulcan arc just had various cool moments: Archer getting all Katra'd, The Soval/ Coombs confrontation, embassy bombing, the Vulcan/Andorian conflict, the Rommulan cameo ending. But it was really just all thrown out there. "Hey Look! We know Trek histroy! See! Lookatthat! Wheeee!!" Aguments arc had elements of Trek history but it didn't rely on parading Trek history out there in order to sustain an entire arc. Sure its great to see it, but you need more driving it aside from a strung-together plot and dragging things out over 3 episodes.
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An elephant never forgets . . .TO KILL!
This week, the Trek films were abandoned as TNG episode, 'The Mind's Eye' was plundered for inspiration.
I guess this will be called another classic episode by the Action Figure Brigade.
True, there were many chills and thrills to be had in the torture and space battle scenes. I even found T'Bush to be a compelling bad guy. Sorval was again an excellent character.
All the scenes with Archer were a complete and utter waste of time (again). How bad did it look that the same tunnels were so obviously used over and over again? And with such obvious dubbing. And worse, it was so damn boring. Archer is so damn boring. T'ass is so damn boring.
But this turned into Scooby-Doo Trek, as Archer arrived at the finale disguised only by a hooded cloak. I laughed out loud at that. Plus the contents of the whatchamacallit artifact was a little bit of a disappointment.
The surprise ending was, naturally enough for this season, set in a cave. Now, if it had been in a Romulan cafe with a table and fresh flower, I might have been impresssed.
There's some promise for the future shown in this episode, but the lesson from this week seems to be - remove Archer and T'ass from scenes and the show can be quite entertaining.
Paging Captain Trip and Number 2 Sorval.
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by phodyss @ 19:38:09 on Dec 07
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by NAFF @ 19:56:23 on Dec 07
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by phodyss @ 13:41:55 on Dec 08
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by NAFF @ 13:52:08 on Dec 08
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by phodyss @ 18:31:42 on Dec 08
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by NAFF @ 09:20:57 on Dec 09
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by Chris Pike @ 16:20:02 on Dec 08
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by NAFF @ 09:15:38 on Dec 09
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by MoulinRouge @ 18:18:53 on Dec 07
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by Chris Pike @ 11:38:27 on Dec 07
gentlemen, gentlemen, do we need a time out...
by MoulinRouge @ 13:51:25 on Dec 07
RE: gentlemen, gentlemen, do we need a time out...
by NAFF @ 15:17:43 on Dec 07
RE: gentlemen, gentlemen, do we need a time out...
by phodyss @ 19:58:32 on Dec 08
RE: gentlemen, gentlemen, do we need a time out...
by NAFF @ 09:25:26 on Dec 09
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by NAFF @ 12:05:19 on Dec 07
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by Chris Pike @ 12:07:44 on Dec 07
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by NAFF @ 12:13:14 on Dec 07
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by Steve Krutzler @ 11:50:00 on Dec 07
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by NAFF @ 12:02:25 on Dec 07
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by Chris Pike @ 12:09:06 on Dec 07
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by NAFF @ 12:15:28 on Dec 07
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by Chris Pike @ 12:23:24 on Dec 07
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by NAFF @ 13:09:32 on Dec 07
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by Kunk @ 08:43:12 on Dec 08
RE: Some Promise, Same Caves
by luckybucky @ 14:19:52 on Dec 09
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