Incisive | Report this post to moderator
By: zak (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:54:43 on Nov 19, 2004

While I enjoyed "The Augments", Deus is certainly correct that the moral issue that should have remained or might have become the central focal point of the final part was simply avoided.
I found Deus' discussion arguing that the Augments were shaped by events particularly incisive and well supported. A very good point that was simply never considered in the episodes. Having anyone seriously counter Archer's claim that the Augments are innately mass murderers out to destroy humanity doesn't ever get the beginning of a look at any point.Even Soong seems in the end to agree.
Nevertheless, as already said, I enjoyed The Augments despite these and other faults that might have been avoided. Good acting did a great deal to overcome some of the less believable moments (e.g. Malik's character as almost the ultimate extreme villain etc)There was alot going on in those three episodes and many interesting and well done moments. The episodes were good, but lots more could have been made from what the finished product presented.Having Malik destroy all the Augments (and then make a quick brief appearance after that fact) really was a kind of cop-out. Still,the writing is going in the right direction, if it just keeps heading there.
I almost hate to agree with so much of Deus' review (jk), but ... I think most of your review is pretty right on.

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dodging questions? | Report this post to moderator
By: tauceti (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:52:39 on Nov 17, 2004

If anything, "Augments" may have inadvertently answered a question... The hint came at the end of the episode, when Soong was pondering his next field of study, "cybernetics?". Think about it... Soong (who never really came across to me as a 'mad' scientist or warped genius) begins creating cybernetic prosthetic devices for the physically challenged and infirmed (a worthy cause) . What would happen if, prior to creating Before, Lore and Data, the Soong's devices are corrupted and through some twist of fate, usher in the genesis of the Borg...

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Too Generous | Report this post to moderator
By: Captain Chris (Odo's file, contact) @ 09:01:47 on Nov 17, 2004

This episode wasn't that good. Deus was too generous. It was predictable. And it was cliche after cliche throughout.

We knew Persis was dead as soon as Soong started talking about Malik to her. You knew she would be convinced that Soong was right, then you knew she was going to get caught. And the fight scene between Malik and Persis looked like a dance!

I will admit that I enjoyed Spiners performance. He didn't have much to work with, but he did pull it through.

But that last scene about artificial life was patronizing. Come on! Who starts a project thinking "It might take a generation or two" to complete? It would have been more believable if he had invented some sort of automated logic for the ships computer to get them out of a jam, and then later imagine out loud the posibilities of extending that technology. But he didn't. He simply threw a bone to the continuity hounds.

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Disagree with you | Report this post to moderator
By: MarkMat (Odo's file, contact) @ 11:32:48 on Nov 16, 2004

Deus,

Would you puh-leeze lighten up? I thought it was a good episode. Decent, if slightly formulaic, writing and competent acting.
I especially loved the little moment Spiner had at the end about artificial life forms. "Might take a generation or two." Great stuff. Nice reference.
I think the show is on the right track with these mini-arcs, too. Not trying to cram too much into one show. The new blood shows, and it's working.

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Are you trying to get the show killed? | Report this post to moderator
By: falcon (Odo's file, contact) @ 10:01:56 on Nov 16, 2004

ODeus:

Sounds to me like you would just as soon see Enterprise die as succeed. Granted, critics all go into their critiques with a slew of preconceived notions, but the good critics set those aside and write about their impressions of the movie or TV episode. Looks to me like you don't do that.

If you have a built-in bias against Enterprise, then say so. It's obvious your reviews are colored by your feelings about the show. Your reviews used to be insightful and, more often than not, right on the money; yet lately, it seems as though you still have a hangover from season 3. You know someone from Paramount reads these boards. Based on the comments here (and in other places like TrekBBS), Paramount could decide that nobody likes the show and pull the plug. Be insightful, be direct, but more than anything else be objective. Judging from the responses to your last two or three reviews, the fans obviously like the show more than you do.

--------

"Pain is temporary. Quitting lasts forever." - Lance Armstrong



"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

--Robert Heinlein



"The timeline? This is no time to be arguing about time! We don't have the time!" -- Deanna Troi, Star Trek: First Contact



falcon

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Another great ep ... another questionable review | Report this post to moderator
By: timmer33 (Odo's file, contact) @ 08:57:40 on Nov 16, 2004

AUGMENTS was a great episode. It had its weaknesses, but luckily the ep's strengths overshadowed them.

THE BAD

- How did ENT find the Bird of Prey so fast when they crossed into Klingon space? It happened in about 5 seconds.

- The "masking" of the warp signature. A weak device to circumvent the Klingons. Just go into Klingon space and hope you don't get caught! That's what Kirk did in TOS.

- Did Mayweather have a single line in this three episode arc? He's a likeable guy. Use him!

THE GOOD

- The space battle was great. Some good f/x! The torpedo scene was especially good. Reminiscent of ST: TMP

- I noticed a few new things here. The magnify order, for instance. Rather than switching immediately to a larger view of the Klingon ship, the viewscreen quick-zoomed. It was quite a nice bit of detail added.

- Hoshi's earpiece! Excellent nod to TOS technology!

- Something I noticed in the bedroom scene between Malick and Persis. The music was very TOS! Did anyone else notice it? It was *very* reminiscent of the music during a Kirk love scene. I'm sure it was new to the series. Who else noticed this?

- The use of grapples was cool. Manny's using pre-TOS technology, which is important. We can't jump too far in the future in terms of technology. It's still only 2154.

- Spiner was awesome as usual. The ending in particular was great. I for one hope he'll return. He's the evil genius, the thorn in Archer's side ... but the very likeable thorn. He's this series' Q. Bring him back if you can, Manny. Maybe have him escape and create an android that malfunctions or something. Whatever. It'll be great to see Spiner a couple times each season.

- The new displays on the bridge are great.

- The story came to a nice conclusion. The idea to start a conflict between Earth and Klingon was a great idea. But it's too bad it didn't happen! According to Kirk, the contact between Humans and Klingons was "disasterous." We haven't seen that yet. We need to.

- Great story arc. Great part 1, part 2, and part 3. Congratulations all.

______________________________________________

As is usually the case, the good is overlooked by O. Deus. I swear, the guy doesn't know anything about Trek. He criticises the show endlessly without good cause. (I've said this one before: when there's the slightest hint of the relationship between Trip and T'Pol, Deus hates the episode. THis is another example of proof for that statement.)

Since you called for this two episodes ago, here are some statements you made that are utterly and completely FALSE. Are you even watching the same ep the rest of us are?

"Malik proceeds on the usual self-destructive course of villains ticking off every cliche along the way, right down to a shock horror movie-style reappearance when you least expect it."

Had Malik died when the ship self-destructed, you would be complaining that it was a copy of ST II. You would be saying the writers didn't show any originality. You see the negative in everything.

"Brent Spiner's Soong, who was responsible for much of the strength of "Cold Station 12," still gives a committed performance but the writing fails to give him a partner to play off"

A good character doesn't need a "partner to play off." You're nitpicking, as usual. A character can be excellent and not need a foil. Not every episode of television is like that. Once again, you see the negative in everything. Instead, how about saying "Spiner did a great job presenting us with a multi-faceted and conflicted character."

"Once Soong leaves the Augments' Klingon ship we're left with him trying to make his case to Archer, who in true Archer fashion never pays attention."

Not true. Archer thought he was trying to trick him, again. Soong eventually convinces him. You're saying false things here, Deus.

"Archer tells Soong that Malik's actions prove that the Augments are innately ruthless mass murderers but that may or may not be the case. The Augments were shaped by events."

Again, not true. The Augments are genetically bred to violence. This episode proved it. Space Seed proved it. TWOK proved it. Archer (and Phloxx) tried to convince Soong of this fact, and he succeeded at the end. Did you watch the ending of the episode? Soong was convinced this was the case.

"The distinction is that the Augments did not seek to rule humanity, they wanted to be left alone. On the flimsy excuse of conflict with the Klingons, Starfleet refused to do that."

Flimsy excuse? Give me a break. Are you even watching the same episode THE REST OF US ARE? The Augments were going to exterminate an entire Klingon colony, Deus. Starfleet recognized the threat that the Augments are and dealt with them. The Augments killed people on C-12. They killed the crew of a Klingon Bird of Prey. Do you actually think that Starfleet would throw its hands up and say, "Whatever. Let them be." Right. You see the negative in everything.

"If the embryos had survived at least and Archer had to ponder keeping them around or not, it might have been an interesting moral dilemma."

This could not have happened because thousands of embryos remained on C-12. Malik et al could only take eleven (?) as that was the number of gestation tanks they had (can't remember the exact name for them.) Deus, again you're not paying attention, and you criticise the show for it.

You criticise the show because it's not this, it's not that, it could have been this, it should have done that, and so on. If you think you're such an amazing critic of Trek, why are you writing reviews? Why not go and try to write some tv episodes of your own? Mel Brooks said it best:

"With the birth of the artist, came the inevitable AFTERBIRTH - the critic."

You can't sit back and enjoy a show that's a high quality entertaining ep like AUGMENTS was. You nitpick and criticise, and I just showed you how wrong you were about every damn criticism you made! What was the focus of this episode? It was the CLIMAX to the three part arc. For that very reason, it simply cannot have some of the things you're demanding. As the climax it's meant to be an action-filled episode with a little less characterization than the exposition ep (BORDERLAND) and the rising action wp (C-12). You don't know much about story, and you seem to know less about Trek. Leave the reviews to unbiased people who are willing to see the good and bad in every episode. Your reviews for the first two episodes of the season praised trek more than your reviews for two episodes of the Spiner arc, and that is a travesty. Classic Trek is being delivered to us on a silver platter now, thanks to Manny Coto, and you continue to spray your venom over it. WHy no mention of the TOS-era music in the bedroom scene? Why no mention of the Soong-Archer conflict? Why no mention of Soong's conflicted nature? Why no mention of Soong's plans for his future (you criticised this, when in fact it is a nice nod to continuity and further appearances by Spiner.)

With friends like you, who needs enemies? Steve, how about writing a review of this ep and posting it here? At least I know it'll be fair and balanced. I much prefer your reviews. They give positives and negatives and are fairly unbiased.

I'm sure Deus will look at this and criticise the "rants" by people here (as he did last week) rather than see this as a chance to improve his own negatively biased reviews of ENT. 90% of the people here disagree with his reviews, and Deus criticises US for ranting at him! That's ridiculous! Open your eyes man.

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Best yet this season | Report this post to moderator
By: hyperX (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:59:50 on Nov 15, 2004

Personally... I thought this ep was the best yet this season. Almost everything worked for me... especially Mallik. He went from being what looked like a dumb cliche villain to a very sinister, smart, power hungry, soaked in ego, very Khan-like (and I'm sure that was on purpose) adversary.

I have no idea why Archer didn't just notify the Klingons of the situation offered their assistance, and tracked down the Augments together. The Klingon's are a lot more advanced than Humans in this era and probably would've been able to track down and destroy the Augments with little fuss. Obviously that doesn't work as an action oriented show, but they could've come up with a better excuse as to why they had no option but to stealthly violate Klingon space.

Regardless though, I guess the ends justify the means, 'cause I LOVED how the Enterprise disabled that big Klingon mofo, it gave me goose bumps.

I HATED how easily the Klingon's seemed to excuse the whole situation with a brief mention in the captain's log. That could've been a catalyst to explain why early era Kilingons hate Starfleet so much.

Oh well... entertaining show, if not full of holes.

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Surprised Dues didn't bring up the TWOK bit | Report this post to moderator
By: Bucky (Odo's file, contact) @ 21:15:58 on Nov 15, 2004 | (1)

I thought Malik staggering around the bridge all bloodied up would be right up his alley. Personally, I loved it. May have been a total rip, but I got a charge out of seeing the TWOK nod.

--------

An elephant never forgets . . .TO KILL!

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Bulls*it... | Report this post to moderator
By: City Hunter (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:28:11 on Nov 15, 2004

I just love how quickly you go and assault the script without placing the REAL blame where it should be.

First of all, the script works FINE. There was nothing wrong with the story. For the last 4 years, all I keep hearing is "writers" this and "writers" that. That's bulls*it! This script worked PERFECTLY.

PLACE THE BLAME WHERE IT BELONGS IN THIS EPISODE

Has anyone EVER entertained the thought of blaming the DIRECTOR? NO! Why not? Because he's famous? Because he's a Trek vet? Because he's this or that? LeVar Burton yes, is a wonderful actor. I grew up on Reading Rainbow and TNG also. But he SUCKS as a director! He doesn't GUIDE, like a good director should. The strong dramatic moments aren't just the actors' responsabilities... they are also the DIRECTOR'S responsability.

I agree with your review, EXCEPT that you blame the WRONG parties for the dumbing down of this bland episode of Trek.

Put the blame where it belongs. LeVar Burton is a good actor, and a wonderful guy I bet, but he is a TIRED director and needs to GUIDE THE ACTORS MORE. THAT is why this episode failed to be taken seriously.

NOT the script.

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"You are now the property of the Orion Syndicate! Break the rules, and you will suffer! Follow the rules, and you will suffer less!" ~ Big Green Orion Slave-Trade Marketing Dude, ENT: "Boarderland"





LOOKING FOR VOICE ACTORS! JOIN THE HUNT TODAY!

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Impressive...most impressive | Report this post to moderator
By: Peacekeeper (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:30:39 on Nov 15, 2004

Well they need to be acknowledged when they produce a rare gem of a episode, so WELL DONE!!!
Very nice, tightly-woven episode interlaced with some movie calibre FX. As a matter of fact the whole episode felt like a big screen movie with tense moments like what we got to see in ST 6: undiscovered country. The episode felt like a cross between ST2:TWOK and ST6. Very nicely done, i wished they could have applied the same pricipals to Nemesis. Could have turned out to be a good movie.

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Loved it. | Report this post to moderator
By: Hbasm (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:00:04 on Nov 15, 2004

Sooo, here we gooo. We got our first three-parter, in the new Coto era. The style is more daring, for better or worse. It has got potential.

From what I understand, Coto is spending all his time including his sparetime on Star Trek these days, trying to perfect Enterprise. I can only give him credit for this! I think he created an exciting three-parter. It looks nice, sounds nice, feels nice. My only wish for the upcoming episodes is, they will be more focused on "discussing ideas" rather than action-oriented.

The rest seems perfectly in balance and very professional, at least in my opinion. Thank you for keeping Star Trek alive for another year. Hope for many more...

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A Chinese Meal | Report this post to moderator
By: NAFF (Odo's file, contact) @ 15:26:57 on Nov 15, 2004

So now we see how they are going to manage on a lower budget...

...s-t-r-e-t-c-h t-h-i-n-g-s o-u-t o-v-e-r t-h-r-e-e e-p-i-s-o-d-e-s g--e--t--t--i--n--g t--h--e m--a--x--i--m--u--m u--s--e f---r---o---m t---h---e s---e---t---s.

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