Other TOS Ideas | Report this post to moderator
By: Nowhere Man (Odo's file, contact) @ 23:30:36 on Sep 14, 2004

If they want to use ideas from the TOS, they need to look at maybe a precursor to the Return of the Archons, Where no man has gone before, or A piece of the action. I am very interested to see the shows on the Eugenics Wars. I wish they could base those particular episodes on the two books that were written about Khan. Oh well

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Stop butchering TOS | Report this post to moderator
By: psp1 (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:47:18 on Sep 14, 2004

This is the final indignity for the franchise. Butchering what's left of good ideas from TOS. First, Vulcans are totally mischaracterized. Now totally blatant violations of canon.

It's a sad ending. It's like watching a great champion die slowly while getting the crap pounded out of them by minor league boxers.

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psp1

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God yes. Do it now! NOW! | Report this post to moderator
By: Bucky (Odo's file, contact) @ 17:02:57 on Sep 14, 2004

The Gorn are cool even if its a green guy in a rubber outfit. I don't care if it violates continuity, I like cannon's being blasted at point-blank range and arms getting grown back.

Its a dinosaur in a loincloth with a bad temper. That idea should not lie around untouched. Its a pretty neat TOS episode (not great mind you, but cool) so they should try to show them off again with some better FX.

Screw continuity, I want bloodthirsty sentient angry dinosaurs that keep on truckin after getting shot at point blank range.

Its like the Terminator... with dinosaurs.

Seriously, how is that a bad idea?

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An elephant never forgets . . .TO KILL!

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If they introduce the Gorn, then why not Species 8472? | Report this post to moderator
By: Deslok 2 (Odo's file, contact) @ 13:38:20 on Sep 14, 2004

It's not surprising that Brannon Braga likes the Gorn idea, it's not in keeping with a logical flow of events as relates to the STAR TREK universe, and he's clueless.

Honestly, why does it have to be the Gorn? There are so many other species that would make better sense to feature on ENT, such as Sigma Iotians, but better yet... why don't they just work with the aliens they've created for ENT so far. We've seen the inclusion of Nausicaans, I think it's viable that they exist in Archer's time & neck of the woods, they ought to be used again as appropriate. Season four would have been a better time to attempt an appearance of the Ferengi, but if the story were as stupid as the one they ran earlier in the series, it wouldn't have done any good. What amazes me is that it has taken this long to even get any talk of Orions appearing on ENT to surface.

And let's not forget, before any Romulan wars occur, there's this small matter of the Klingon wars, but of course, there's this little matter of the Temporal CLOD War to deal with as far as repurcussions go.

In my opinion, the stories on ENT shouldn't worry too much about namedropping aliens that have previously appeared on the various STAR TREK series, they need to work within the context of what ENT has established so far. Have the Kreetasans suddenly stopped existing? The Xyrillians? And how about a mysterious encounter with some aliens that look remarkably similar to the Greys that purportedly are still being held prisoner in area 51?

Good STAR TREK is more than simply pulling old ideas out of the vault and propping them up, there must be a real story and a reason for the events taking place at all.

Also, they need to stop inventing new aliens and simply use the ones that we all know in creative ways, which of course means that they'll have to do their homework. The Gorn is not a viable qualifier regardless of how interesting the story is. Outer space is so vast and it is unlikely that the NX-01 would have run into the huge numbers of different aliens that they have given their limited range. At this point in the timeline, there should be a handful of different alien species that they would have encountered, even local space is rather vast. The NX-01 has only W5 capabillity and I doubt that it would realistically go beyond the radius which is in part defined by what eventually becomes The Neutral Zone.

The Gorn are fair game for a series that takes place AFTER TOS, not before.

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"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here."

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I think this is an old interview | Report this post to moderator
By: sb2004 (Odo's file, contact) @ 12:11:43 on Sep 14, 2004

I get the feeling that this interview was conducted long before Manny Coto started to outline his vision for S4. The fact the synopsis above doesn't mention Coto suggests the Goodman interview might have predated Coto's appointment as show runner. So I don't put much stock in it.

I have to say I'm surprised that Goodman, a member of the TrekBBS and therefore privy to a lot of the basher vs. gusher rage of the past couple years, could come up with an idea like this. Aside from the fact that the original Gorn were terrible (the story was classic, but the lizard men I could live without), I just don't see it working. I don't believe Arena was the first contact with the Gorn, however, as I think both Spock and Kirk were familiar with the race. I haven't seen the episode in years so I may be wrong.

Alex

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Thank god for Greyhound -- Goodman is gone! | Report this post to moderator
By: TRexx (Odo's file, contact) @ 07:33:14 on Sep 14, 2004

Quote from David A. Goodman:
"I spent a lot of time last year developing a Gorn episode because I thought that given what you can do with today's effects - if you think 'Arena', [Kirk] hits him with a diamond fired from a cannon, and he's just a little groggy. I mean, this is a great monster."


The Gorn were not encountered by Starfleet prior to Arena, and that's the way it should remain. Goodman sought to exploit the Gorn name and a "cool" monster. Apparently the creative well had run dry and he was too lazy to research a more plausible species.

How did Berman manage to find a group of writers that are all barren of creativity in the same way? "Let's bring in the Ferengi, the Borg, and the Gorn, but no one will find out who they are to record their criminal activities for future reference -- it'll be COOL!" It's bad enough that NX-01 is made to look like a ship of fools; TPTB shouldn't be looking to defile Kirk and crew.

It's this type of nonsense that makes some people petition to have ENT cancelled. The longer it stays on the air, producing new episodes, the more opportunity ENT has to sully other series and characters.


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Alien vs Predator Action Figures

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Old and out of date news | Report this post to moderator
By: Cyrus (Odo's file, contact) @ 04:17:20 on Sep 14, 2004 | (1)

David Goodman posted the following update (to this CFQ article) a few weeks ago on another bbs (link):

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I didn't get too far with it, to tell you the truth. Towards the end of season two, Brannon said he was open to a Gorn idea. The Gorn had a comparable technology to Earth, so an individual could have made it into Enterprise's neck of the woods. I was concerned about canon, to the extent that I didn't want it to step on "Arena." But, I thought, why does every individual of every species we meet have to tell us everything about them? If this Gorn didn't give a sh-t about Enterprise and it's crew, would he fill them in and immediatley open peace talks? That's the superficial character trait I started with, and began developing an "Assault on Precinct 13" story. The story I developed had some superficial similarities to what became "Impulse", but I couldn't crack it to Brannon's satisfaction (or mine) and the season ended.

Why do a Gorn story? I love seeing TOS aliens done with modern production values, and it would've been fun to see what the effects guys could do with a Gorn. Before one of you screams "I knew it! All they wanted to do was break continuity! See? They hate us! They hate us!" remember, KIRK FIRED A DIAMOND OUT OF A CANNON (not "canon" a CANNON!) FROM TEN FEET AWAY, and the Gorn captain WAS STILL CONSCIOUS! Gene Coon built an incredible monster. So there was A LOT of abilities we could give them that would've been consistent with what we had already seen, and we could've developed a character that might have filled in the picture of what kind of race the Gorns are. And, if he didn't give a crap about us, he never would get around to saying "By the way, my people call themselve the Gorn. Did you get that? GORN. G-O-R-N. Don't forget it. We own most of the space around Cestus. Write that down. Cestus, C-E... what? No one has a pen? Well, someone remember, please, I wouldn't want some misunderstanding. So stop by and see us, we're friendly. Just remember to call ahead."

But in the end, there wasn't a good enough story to justify it.

The decks were cleared for "The Xindi" in season three, so the Gorn story disappeared, although as I said some elements ended up being used in "Impulse." I don't know if Rick, Brannon and Manny have any plans to use the Gorn, since I'm not there anymore, which some of you may consider to be the more important point...



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Good manners, madam, are never a waste of time.

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Please NO Gorn. | Report this post to moderator
By: Scorned (Odo's file, contact) @ 00:05:32 on Sep 14, 2004

Quote:"And what about the appearances of alien races familiarized by the Original Series in the upcoming fourth season ? "That's something we all want to do and it's certainly a strong possibility," Goodman says. "I spent a lot of time last year developing a Gorn episode because I thought that given what you can do with today's effects - if you think 'Arena', [Kirk] hits him with a diamond fired from a cannon, and he's just a little groggy. I mean, this is a great monster. Given what you can do with CGI and limbs that can grow back, I spend a lot of time developing this Gorn story that Brannon liked, but we didn't have time to do it. So I may dust that off. And of course it's important to establish that they never call it a Gorn and you're never going to know that this is what is encountered later."


Please NO Gorn! That is something of TOS.

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Apparently he has left... ?? | Report this post to moderator
By: Jadzia-Dax (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:17:19 on Sep 13, 2004

From above:

The latest issue of Cinefantastique magazine, just out in the US, features an exclusive interview with ENTERPRISE third season writer and consulting producer David A. Goodman.

Goodman just posted yesterday on TrekBBS and it seems that he is no longer with the show. Ie., from the context of his post, it doesn't seem like he will be a Consulting Producer on ENT either.

I know print mags are generally done from 1 - 3 months in advance so this might be a recent development that happened after that interview.

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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998

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"If the season finale involves the re-built USS Reliant coming back in time to the 21st Century crewed by Moogie, Dr. Selar, Morn, Transporter Chief Kyle, and the Salt Vampire, then we'll know that Coto has gone too far." - tomba1701

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Out of Date? | Report this post to moderator
By: Mr. J (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:12:09 on Sep 13, 2004 | (1)

This interview must have been done a fair while ago, as David Goodman has since left the staff of ENT to re-join Family Guy. He confirms this over on trekbbs where he is a regular poster.

With that in mind, I doubt much of what he is said here will come to fruition.

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Ha | Report this post to moderator
By: Lost_In_Time (Odo's file, contact) @ 19:03:26 on Sep 13, 2004

nd we're trying to figure out a way to make the upcoming year as challenging or more challenging than we did this year.


Read as, "aw man, how we gonna fix all this sh!t!"

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Bring the Gorn Baby! | Report this post to moderator
By: timmer33 (Odo's file, contact) @ 18:43:47 on Sep 13, 2004

Can't think of a better alien to bring back! Great thinking!

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