I always get a chuckle out of TrekWeb threads where you guys concoct elaborate "continuity operas" -- storyline scenarios that entail minute details and characters from previous shows known only to hard-core Trek fans (e.g. "Mirror Kirk meets Dr. Soong on Ceti Alpha Five" or whatever).
You guys ought to all wake up and realize that TPTB will never make such shows. As a TV studio, they want each ep (or series anyway) to stand alone as much as possible, independent of any prior knowledge, so that potential new viewers are not confused. So any "send-ups" to previous series (esp the now-aged TOS) should not be so intricate as to require a PhD in Trek Continuity. Therefore, you can bet that any return of Kirk will *not* involve a reenactment of the climactic scene of "Generations," since casual ENT viewers can't be made responsible for having that movie as background knowledge.
Gene's Ghost wrote:
"Kirk will live because of CASH! NOT because it's good for Star Trek in general."
But that's exactly the point. CASH is what's good for Trek since this is how TPTB measure success. At least this has been the case throughout two decades of TOS reruns, 10 movies and four revival series.
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GET A LIFE, will you people? I mean, for crying out loud, it's just a TV show!.... You've turned an enjoyable little job, that I did as a lark for a few years, into a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME! -- William Shatner on Saturday Night Live (1986)
I'm a huge Captain Kirk, TOS fan and love the Harve Bennet/Nick Meyer films and abhor everything Rick Berman has ever done (with the exception of the brilliant underrated DS9). For the record, I loved NEMESIS and thought FIRST CONTACT had moments of brilliance.
But bringing Kirk to a failed sci-fi series, years after most Trekkers gave up on it, is a big mistake and will dillute the Kirk mythos and, most importantly, eliminate any chance at future Kirk appearances in movies.
I'd rather see Kirk return to the big screen with Nimoy.
Hi all,
I've been an avid reader of Trekweb for a while now and never jumped in to the fray myself, til now.
But with the return of Kirk pending and seemingly imminent I thought now would be a good time to say my piece about how he should return, cause there really is only one believable way to do it. I've read all the talk about having him come out of the NEXUS and him being the MIRROR KIRK blah blah blah....not the way to to.
The simplest way to do it is this is this, when you watch Generations, the scene just after Kirk makes the missle thing appear he hangs there for a good 3-5 seconds as the metal breaks. That is more than enough time for a "beamout" assuming someone knew these events were going to take place. If he was beamed out it would have "0" effect on the timeline and all Picard would have would be a mystery as to where Kirk went. Remember he was fidling with missile when Kirk fell and wouldn't even notice it. It further seems that with the "temporal crap" going and the timeline changing every other day this would be no big deal for someone like....say..Daniels. Now the reason for bringing him back that's something else and I'm working on that. The only other commnent is this, say we all get our wish and Kirk is once again among us, NOBODY KNOWS WHO THE HELL HE IS IN THE 2150's!!! Pleae help me out on this one.
No need to rehash my objection to the idea of squeezing Shatner's bloated mass into a uniform again....
When all is said and done, this will be nothing more than a ratings stunt, providing a brief uptick in viewership. But a series can't be sustained by ratings stunts alone. Enterprise has already trotted out the Ferengi and the Borg, and now we're going to get a farewell tour from TOS & TNG's surviving cast. But what happens when they've run through all the stunt casting available to them? What will be left is what's been there all along - a show with no real direction, no real agenda, no real purpose, no real reason for putting it's cardboard cut-out characters through their paces.
Then again, since everyone seems to be in agreement that this is the last season, perhaps they only need enough stunts to fill up 26 episodes. They're even making it easier on themselves by stretching out each stunt across multiple episodes.
Sorry, I know it seems like an effort is being made to salvage something worthwhile of this show, but Coto and the new writers aren't going to be able to undo 3 years of mindless dreck. Taking a show that heretofore cared nothing for established continuity and turning it into continuity porn just ain't gonna be enough to save it.
Once they bring fat old Shatner back (don't get me wrong dear flamers, I LOVE THE MAN!), there will be no ignoring ENTERPRISE's previous 3 years of disregard for canon or continuity that's been consistantly it's biggest flaw.
But if B&B manage to drag "The Shat" throughout the rest of the sesaon, they probably will guarantee the show not being cancelled this year. There by sealing the deal for Paramount who just wants to get their cash back from the minimum amount of total episodes for syndication purposes. See? This idea isn't an inspired one, no matter what the feckless masses believe.
Kirk will live because of CASH! NOT because it's good for Star Trek in general.
The only hope I have as a true die hard (but discerning) Trek fan is that this piss poor series is set in the "Mirror, Mirror" universe. If not, another one goes splash in the toilet of modern television from what once was the best sci-fi franchise in history.
I suppose it will be good to see Kirk anyway, he works best in comedy, and he'll probably be great in the comedy of errors otherwise known as ENTERPRISE.
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PAY ATTENTION! Listen to DemocracyNow! and AirAmericaRadio - Where the truth hurts... Republicans mostly!
Then as a FAN let me just say we the fans :
WE ARE GO FOR SHATNER!!
Testing is what they do at TV City. IIRC, they either record the audience or have an employee make note of reactions. If the Shatner appearance was really a go, there would be an actual press release. They're probably just seeing if it would be worth the trouble of getting Shatner by finding out how people react to the idea.
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EARLY: You know, with the exception of one deadly and unpredictable midget, this girl is the smallest cargo I've ever had to transport, yet by far the most troublesome.
SIMON: What did he do?
EARLY: Who?
SIMON: The midget.
EARLY: Arson. Little man loved fire.
Usually with these posts I expect Scorned to be the 1st to post. Oh well.
I'm kinda two sided on this subject. I will watch this episode(s) but I still think it's too much of a crutch.
I enjoyed Generations, but I think they could have done so much more with it. I remember reading a concept some years back on how they were gonna do Generations, they were gonna have EVERY crew member (Uhura, McCoy, Chekov, Sulu, Spock, Kirk) on the ENTERPRISE-B. The nexxus was going to be a tear in time and the ENTERPRISE-B would be brought into the 24th century.
Kirk/Picard and company would be batteling a Romulan situation (this would have been the 1st movie dealing with the Romulans) both ENTERPRISE's teaming up to save the day, in the end the only way to save the day is the get the ENT-B back to it's own time to even prevent this situation (because with the ENT-B gone this situation occurs, with it, it's prevented...Guinan is the one who tells all this)...anyways, Kirk is pretty much killed the same way (the Nexxus striking the ENT-B) he was thought be killed in 2294 trying to get the ENT-B and her crew back to their original time.
I got this info I believe from the Next Generation Companion book that came out after TNG went off the air.
It would have sound more promising, yet in the end I feel that Kirk should remain dead, let old Legends live on in the mind and not in actions.
ENT is using this episode only to put butts in seats on Friday night, and unfortunately, once they achieve that type of glory they'll never be able to duplicate it (which fans will demand) and no show could have done that. If they had used Kirk on TNG, DS9, VOY, they would have never duplicated the success again, all other episodes would have been remedial afterwards.
Ah well, nothing I can do about it, gonna watch it anyway and end up liking it and then being one of the ones saying "they need to do something like that again" and not be able to get it. Oh well...
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"Being A Jackass Is Not A Talent, It's A Science"
...Quoted By Me While Passed Out Drunk
"Live Hard, Die Young, And Leave A Good Looking Corpse!"
--Kindred: The Embraced
Usually with these posts I expect Scorned to be the 1st to post. Oh well.
I'm kinda two sided on this subject. I will watch this episode(s) but I still think it's too much of a crutch.
I enjoyed Generations, but I think they could have done so much more with it. I remember reading a concept some years back on how they were gonna do Generations, they were gonna have EVERY crew member (Uhura, McCoy, Chekov, Sulu, Spock, Kirk) on the ENTERPRISE-B. The nexxus was going to be a tear in time and the ENTERPRISE-B would be brought into the 24th century.
Kirk/Picard and company would be batteling a Romulan situation (this would have been the 1st movie dealing with the Romulans) both ENTERPRISE's teaming up to save the day, in the end the only way to save the day is the get the ENT-B back to it's own time to even prevent this situation (because with the ENT-B gone this situation occurs, with it, it's prevented...Guinan is the one who tells all this)...anyways, Kirk is pretty much killed the same way (the Nexxus striking the ENT-B) he was thought be killed in 2294 trying to get the ENT-B and her crew back to their original time.
I got this info I believe from the Next Generation Companion book that came out after TNG went off the air.
It would have sound more promising, yet in the end I feel that Kirk should remain dead, let old Legends live on in the mind and not in actions.
ENT is using this episode only to put butts in seats on Friday night, and unfortunately, once they achieve that type of glory they'll never be able to duplicate it (which fans will demand) and no show could have done that. If they had used Kirk on TNG, DS9, VOY, they would have never duplicated the success again, all other episodes would have been remedial afterwards.
Ah well, nothing I can do about it, gonna watch it anyway and end up liking it and then being one of the ones saying "they need to do something like that again" and not be able to get it. Oh well...
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"Being A Jackass Is Not A Talent, It's A Science"
...Quoted By Me While Passed Out Drunk
"Live Hard, Die Young, And Leave A Good Looking Corpse!"
--Kindred: The Embraced
If this is true, then the legacy of Kirk is forever soiled. The guy has to die to be a worthwhile legend, otherwise he's just a comic book character. There is no conceviable way for them to write him into the Enterprise timeline which isn't going to look like pathetic pandering to the fans and to the general public it'll just look like a cynical ratings grab - which is exactly what it is.
I was wondering how long it would take for a News item here that would say in essence:
"Slashdot reported that TrekToday reported that our BBS reported that... "
considering that all sorts of sci fi-focus sites are pointing back here. LOL
(personally, I think it's a done deal and is a matter of dotting "i"s and crossing "t"s and trying to time the promotional releases over a specific range of months and/or over a longer period of time so it doesn't overshadow the other guest stars scheduled on the show during the fall. ;-))
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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Outer Space. The last frontier.
These are the trips of the Star Trek Enterprise.
Its 5-year plan...
Calls for us to explore strange new worlds. To seek out new life and new civilizations.
To boldly fly where no man has gone in space.
Patrick Stewart on SNL 2/5/94
I'm surprised no one has commented anything on this yet!
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