Just thought I'd add something, for a thought that has just occured to me. Azati Prime had a kind of 'Matrix' after effect to it, it may be dense and have that kind of seasonal finale 'wow' factor to it, but the way I see it, 'Prime' doesnt just encourage a second viewing, it demands it.
O.Deus, are you mad? 7/10!!! Whats all that about? Overstuffed? Have you ever seen Babylon 5? I'd say Azati Prime was like one of those amazingly cool B5 eps, that loads off into onto you, theres nothing wrong or unintelligent about that. I had to admit, I found myself backing up some scenes to re-listen to them, such as the future scene, but other than that it was beautifully paced, amazingly constructed and simply breathtaking. Are you watching Ent on a 14" black and white TV Deus? How could you rate the VFX and Production design only 7.5? I would place a healthy bet that 'Prime' will be an Emmy nominee for best FX, they were, frankly, the best ever effects you could expect out of a TV screen. The detail in the ocean, the whole ship being torn apart, the insides collapsing, the bridge, engineering and corridors smashed, burned and crumbled. IMO, Ent, like all the Trek series' before it, has televisions best CGI and technical work, and 'Prime' certainly raised the bar a good few notches more.
My only complaint; I am gonna have to watch it a second time (no bad thing but its 4am now and I cant wait until tomorrow until I see it again) :)
Seriously thought, Season 3 for Ent has been an amazing treat, and these last few eps are really gearing to something special (hopefully). I know this is a long shot, but those who have slated the show in the past I think really need to re-think it all. Think about it. If you compare Ent seasons 1 and 2, to JUST the first two seasons of TNG, DS9 and VOY, I know its hard, possibly even impossible to strip them down to JUST those seasons, but truthfully compare ENT's first two, to their first two, and there really isnt that much difference. The way I see it, ENT had no brothers to depend on when it came out, unlike DS9 resting on the shoulders of TNG and VOY resting on DS9's. Yes, ENT has its shortcomings, but lets give it chance, huh? DS9 didnt take off until its third year, nor did TNG and it took Voyager until its fourth, IMO. The thing about DS9 and VOY though, was that they both had diversions until they took off, in the form of the shows that they overlapped with, Ent doesnt have this luxury, but if we bear with it, then the payoff is likely to be worth it, hopefully. If season three is any indication, then I cannot see why ENT wont travel down the same road TNG and DS9 did.
I would rate Azati Prime a solid, 9/10.
I may be wrong, but wasnt daniels from the 29th century?? as in 2800.... thats more than 400 years...
Actually, you're correct that the episode has much going on. But I consider that a strength not a weakness. You mention the lack of strategy or clear thinking on Archer and T'Pol's part. They didn't suddenly have an IQ drop! The both of them were going through some emotional issues that neither has at this point come to grips with. Archer filled with revenge and single mindedness to the point of madness and T'Pol coping with uncontrollable grief. That is what clouded their thinking.
Archer and the Reptilians unknowingly by their actions have managed to create a rift within the Zindi Council. I'm not convinced that Archer's mission has failed even with the present outcome of the episode. It was painful watching the Enterprise being torn apart. It had me wishing for the Constitution Refit with you-know-who in the Captain's chair.
I can only hope that recent turn of events isn't resolved with the "Reset Button" again!
"Now you will pay for your lack of vision!"
The Emperor
A better choice than Archer would have been Luke. Only he has the experience of flying into the Deathstar and setting off a chain reaction to destroy it.
Now if Daniels could just whisk Archer to Dagobah for some training...
Josh
Finally, an entertaining episode.
The writers still can't produce a pre-credits scene to hook the casual viewer. And this is a pity, as this turned into a really watchable episode.
Deus and other folks have already highlighted the things wrong with the episode - and there is much wrong - but by the end I was looking forward to the next episode.
but I didn't get the impression that they were on the bridge of E-J, just in an observation deck or some other such place, otherwise...where were all the CREW?
As an aside, I also wouldn't assume that the E-J was IN the battle. If the E-J (as some have speculated) is indeed a time ship, then it could have been merely observing.
Oh, and for the minor thing of a long, thoughtful reivew, I disagree with Deus.
Like I always say, be different, just like everyone else.
‘Too many good moments?”
I don’t know how else to respond to this review except by saying that you’ll never be satisfied with the series even when it surpasses your expectations.
You probably liked the episode for the most part, but since you have an axe to grind with Enterprise, you must cleverly disguise whatever pleasure the series provides in your raving review as a negative.
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"The only possible ETHIC is to do what one wants to do."
- William S. Burroughs
I always appreciate Deus's insightful reviews. He has a way of looking clearly through an ep and dissecting the pieces with great skill.
But like many TrekWeb'ers, I don't agree with Deus's critical tone this time. But here's what we can learn from Deus's brilliant analysis and the otherwise favorable response from Trek-dom to this ep:
If B&B serve up action, drama and plot development, the fans as a whole will eat it up, even if there are some quibble points with the storyline.
C'mon B&B, let's take some more risks with this show! From all reports, it seems you have little to lose at this point!
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"When I was your age, I didn't watch television! I LIVED! So... move out of your parent's basements!"
-- William Shatner on SNL, 1986
It's clear that the writers believe that keeping everything in motion and all jumbled up doesn't give you enough time to think and therefore lessens the likelihood that you will notice the gaping plot holes... which they will attempt to explain away in a later episode.
I agree that the crew didn't do a whole lot to defend themselves at the end but overall the episode was fantastic. Weak moment but it felt like a necessary plot point; why didn't the Xindi BOARD the freaking ship and gather tactical data rather than destroy it!???? They did it before fairly easily, and wasn't finding out about invation plans the point of Archer's interrogation?
I really liked that Degra pointed out that the only reason Archer was willing to talk was because his mission to destroy the weapon had failed. I didn't get the feeling that he trusted Archer or believed him but did what any good Trek leader would have done; kept open the possibility (Janeway or Picard would do the same thing with the same data).
Other points:
- Why is Daniels freely giving information to Archer about the future (Federation, showing the future Enterprise, etc., etc.)? It seems that the temporal prime directive is out the window; unless Daniels knows this won't matter.
- Nice detail on what happens to Porthos with Archer leaving. Short and sweet as it should have been.
- Archer's talkback; classic - turtle soup indeed.
Otherwise it was a fantastic episode.
If you guys are looking for someone to take over for Deus, who seems to be suffering from the same thing T'Pol is, let me know. I used to write reviews weekly for Alienzoo.
CMBat
Episode kept me much more entertained than some of the other ones. The weapon being gone when he arrived was great and at times I felt like I was watching a motion picture. Good episode ...lets keep the characters behaviors consistent now to continue to build momentum and we'll have a show. Great use of Mayweather and very human reactions to situations. Well done.
Azati Prime is everything I've wanted in Star Trek Enterprise!!!
Now, we have to wait six weeks for a new show!?! Oh, the pain!
Seriously, Enterprise Lives! Go Season 4!
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"God save the United States and this Honorable Court!"
-Announced by the Marshall at the beginning of Supreme Court sessions
So this is the first episode I've recorded since "Similitude" and it was well worth it. The first half of the episode really had me going. This is where most of the drama was and I have to agree with many people here that Deus is off the mark. I don't agree that the episode has Archer and T'Pol making unintelligent command decisions. Archer's decision to fly the mission was well explicated. It's a personal decision for him, not merely one of the command. The weight of his recent decisions is weighing on him and I find it perfectly in keeping with his characterization this season that he would insist on flying the mission himself.
The first half of the show really swims along. It's quick and fast paced. One of the best moments -- if not THE best -- was Archer's decision to destroy the Xindi lunar outpost. The choice to show Archer with his back turned to us for a solid few seconds while making the decision was very well done and the radar readout of the destruction was very powerful. This is as good as anything the franchise has ever produced, and it's the very beginning of the episode.
The discovery of an underwater facility moves the episode along with an interesting locale and a type of environment we're not accustomed to seeing week in and week out. Coto writes wonderful prequel-era dialogue and situations, such as Travis bumping the ship on the way out and Archer's "i'll send you the bill." T'Pol's best moment is when she admits to Archer that she cares about him and doesn't want him to die, and her characterization throughout clearly indicates that she is having serious trouble controlling her emotions. As we've now learned in some future spoilers, this will become a major plot point in the last few episodes of the year.
The visit to the future also keeps the first half skipping along fast and unexpectedly. We get a really cool POV of the Enterprise-J engaged in battle with Sphere-Builders and it's a nice little tease. We're finally tying in all this Temporal Cold War stuff into the Xindi arc in a big way and justifying the reason for putting it in the series in the first place. The idea is that the other STAR TREKs have already happened, and now various groups are tampering with that for future benefit, so in my mind it's becoming very clear that the decision to introduce the whole time travel element was to give the series and edge, something more than just a straight prequel. Because in many ways this is also a sequel. Of course all sorts of time paradoxes present themselves, such as why the Sphere Builders don't just use their time travelling ability to start reconfiguring the Expanse when Earth is, say, stuck in the Dark Ages, so by the time Earth could pose a threat, the Sphere-Builders have already invaded the galaxy.
The early scenes with Degra and the other council members were also very good. The scene where Degra considers the implications of his actions is particularly well written ("how will THEY remember US?") and brilliantly performed.
Once Archer is captured, the ep started to drag a little on me. The initial interrogation scene is wonderfully scripted. "Apparently, it's a constant in the universe" is just a great punch line and that whole exchange b/w Archer and the Reptilian Commander is very good stuff. The scenes on Enterprise begin to drag here, and honestly I have to say that the final battle wasn't as impressive as I'd hoped. It wasn't for lack of pryotechnics or crewmembers flying out the hull. But the battle seemed more like a collage of battle footage, rather than any cohesive combat. Enterprise doesn't even get a shot off and then we just see a lot of damage montage set to what I thought was, honestly, poor musical choice. I just didn't like the comic book style in these scenes, some slo-mo, the guy screaming while on fire. We needed more method to this madness and instead we just got a montage of the sets coming apart and some CGI of the ship. The impact of this is great--it's a nice cliffhanger--but the execution was lacking in the script department. The entire battle could've been written in the script with a couple sentences and then the production crew just went wild and edited it all together.
I have no problem with Archer getting Degra to believe his story. Deus says this is propsterous, but Archer clearly knew intimate details about Degra's life so that provides a very credible reason for Degra to believe him, plus the carbon-dating of the artifact, and the knowledge that the Reptilians have been "difficult" ever since "The Xindi" earlier this year.
In the end, the second half left me a little underwhelmed. Perhaps because the first half reveals so many twists and turns and then the last two acts are mostly just the Enterprise getting beat up, Archer getting beat up/talking, and then the final moments don't even reveal any final twist. Rather, it's just the ship is in danger, Archer is going to another facility, etc. I was looking for that one final unexpected twist at the end, like Daniels warping in with the Enterprise-J to betray Archer or something like that. All the twists were front-loaded and so the end was mostly just dragging out the inevitable discovery of the Enterprise and capture of Archer.
But all in all, I would definitely agree this is the best arc episode of the season. "Similitude" still holds the title as the best ep of the year, and of the series in my opinion, but "Azati Prime" is definitely the best mythology episode. I entirely disagree with Deus's contention that too much was stuffed into this episode, in fact, I felt the pacing was just right through the first half. The second half could've used some better pacing and I actually thought it didn't have enough going on. "The Expanse" was far more jumbled, jumping entire weeks at a time within the narrative of the episode.
So all that was a way of saying: this episode rocked, I can't wait for April 21st, and I hope some wayward viewers will come back to the show.
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It's a rip-off. / We're stepped on, and cheated! / We're flat, stone-cold lied to / But we're not defeated / No!
Halen. "The Dream is Over."
okay, not really, I have a lot to say here, but wow, this one was a jaw dropper. But Deus...
I find it very hard to swallow some of what you're saying here. You're opinion of the episode's "overloaded plot" is noted, though not fully agreed with, but I don't see a lot of the points you're making about the crew "checking their intelligence at the door."
Archer not wanting to order anyone else to their deaths is not nonsense, even though there would be many volunteers, he himself is volunteering, he's the captain, it's his order to do it himself. We've seen this many times in the past with all 4 of the other captains (even some guest-starring captains) and it hardly seems nonsensical for a captain to want to implement their prerogative in this way.
You say that Archer has no real evidence about being to the future... he had the medallion Daniels gave him... which they carbon dated... and he knew the name of Degra's third child... and he knew other specifics about Degra's life. That would seem to be reason enough to sit up and take pause. The Xindi know of the spheres and their "nature," it wouldn't be such a far leap for them to realize that the sphere's were not of this dimension, seeing as they seem to bend time and space. And you also say that by the end of the episode he had convinced the counsel members that what he was saying was true, but they actually say that they're not sure they're convinced in their last scene of the episode.
I also find it hard to believe that incompetence played any part in what appears to be Enterprise's demise... there were a half dozen Xindi battleships attacking them! And Hayes' training sessions only dealt with hand to hand and handheld weapons combat... something that wouldn't have helped them because no Xindi boarded the ship. And as far as formulating a plan to deal with the situation after Archer left, the script hints that only 3 hours pass between Archer's departure and the Xindi attack. Also, there was no reason to "keep an eye" on the outpost because there was no outpost, they destroyed it.
You "knock" the crew for being incompetent, indecisive, and unintelligent... I just don't see it. Archer was very decisive in choosing to not only destroy the outpost, but to launch a pre-emptive strike against the weapon's builders. I don't know where you get incompetence or lack of intelligence... this whole thing unfolded for them pretty fast. T'Pol was obviously having a lot of trouble controlling herself, the whole crew was, and I don't find it out of place or out of character. This is what they've been waiting for. This is the beginning of the culmination of their entire mission. I felt a very uneasy sense coming from each of the characters, a feeling like they couldn't believe that the time was here, the time was now, and the time happened to come about so quickly.
The chaotic nature of the ending left me with an empty feeling inside that I haven't felt since Data died in "Nemesis." It just completely blew me away, lots of unexpected twists. I was thinking, "somebody's dreaming this... this can't be happening." But nobody woke up, nobody hit any reset button, and most ominously, there was no "to be continued..." at the end.
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"The Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one!" -Shran (ENT "Proving Ground"
I think O. Deus provided a tough but fair review of the episode. The bottom line for me is that I'm anticipating the next new episode with an eagerness I can't remember feeling for a Star Trek episode since Best of Both Worlds (one of the longest summers of my life). I care about these people and their dilemma, and in that respect it works.
Keeping in mind that I've avoided spoilers of upcoming episodes, my thoughts on Azati Prime:
GOOD:
It is now clear that something is wrong with T'Pol and that she is a victim of something other than bad writing. With luck, there will be a decent payoff for all the times this season I've screamed at the television, "A Vulcan wouldn't do THAT!"
The underwater weapon center. Cool, and it makes some sense given an aquatic Xindi species. A nice treat.
The thrilling conclusion. It appears that Enterprise is finally getting its nose bloody, though it is gut-wrenching to watch holes punched through a hull and bodies floating away. Dramatically, I hope there's no reset button looming. Despite the damage and floating bodies, the writers very cleverly made sure we saw that no main characters were dying, which is always the reset giveaway.
Finally, I liked seeing some progress toward detente with the Xindi. Degra's ambivalence was well played and his willingness to consider Archer's point of view was, I thought, credible. It's obvious that Archer wouldn't have been able to get through to him unless Degra already had doubts of his own, and that foundation was fairly built. I also liked the portrayal of Degra's African-American colleague who, from the Xindi's point of view, was really a voice of reason. Everything he said made sense and, like Deus, he came across as tough but fair.
A new player: "She." Obviously a counterpoint to Archer's Future Guy, the source of the Xindi's (mis?)information about the future. A logical twist to the mystery. The second Degra mentioned her, did anyone else flash on T'Pol?
BAD:
Deus correctly points out that the episode hinges on both Archer and T'Pol being poor commanders, verging on stupid. *Of course* Mayweather should pilot the shuttle--Archer wouldn't even have had to order him, he volunteered. As I mentioned in a brief response below, even Jim Kirk ordered Spock on a suicide mission into the giant amoeba; that's what captains do.
Whether intended or not, it now appears indiputable that Enterprise is happening in some parallel timeline from other Treks. Daniels said that in 400 years the Expanse was 50,000 light years across. As the galaxy is only 100,000 light years in diameter, that's one-fourth of the galaxy (considering it as an approximately flat disk)! Apparently in the timeline that includes the great Battle of Procyon Five, the Expanse continued to exist and grow through Kirk and Picard's eras until it ate up an enormous slice of the galaxy...yet we've never heard of it before? Kirk, Picard, Sisko or Janeway never once mentioned that giant glowing ball of spatial distortion that once sent out a probe to kill 7 million Floridians and is an imminent threat to destroy us all...sitting there for FOUR CENTURIES? I will be very unhappy if this entire series ends with a reset and probably more unhappy if Enterprise turns out not to be a prequel to TOS (though I would respect the audacity involved in rebooting the entire frachise and starting over, I don't think that's what Berman's doing. I think he's just not thinking it through).
Worst of all, I continue to have serious misgivings about the deus ex machina of this entire arc and series, the temporal cold war. It is now obvious that nothing really bad can happen to Archer since Daniels considers him crucial to the future of the galaxy. A man with a time-traveling guardian angel on his side should really be unbeatable. Why the hell Daniels should pussy-foot around with sending Archer back in time with a mere coin is beyond me. If the galaxy's future is really at stake, why be so subtle? There wasn't anything subtle about sending Archer and T'Pol back to Detroit, and the stakes were much lower on that mission. Why not give Archer some indisputable documentary proof that the Xindi would have to believe? Why not keep Archer in the future until you could convince him of your point of view (Daniels could have reasoned with Archer for weeks and still returned him to the same moment in time from which he was snatched)? Why not take the entire Xindi Council for a tour of the future?
I have little faith that the logical pitfalls and story-telling problems inherent in having a time-traveling protagonist have really been thought through. Whatever happens to Archer and the Enterprise, Daniels should be able to undo it. I consider this a serious dramatic weakness in the arc, one that encourages inconsistency and undermines suspense.
EDIT: Sorry, double posted. I've had a heck of a time with the TrekWeb server lately.
I have a hard time believing that the filler episodes have received higher reviewers. Hatchery was not better than Azati Prime. It's one of the most suspensive and epic Star Trek episodes ever. I'm not just talking about the the awesome special effects, and the Enterprise J. When Archer said goodbye to the crew, I think it may have been the first time I really cared for the characters.
Even after all this time, we finally know more about the transdimensional aliens, and the TCW.
Even if it was a sweeps episode, I was blown away.
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"We're starfleet officers....weird is part of the job!"
Wow. I know we don't see eye to eye in the Fire Caves, but your reviews this season have mirrored my opinions of the episodes quite well, until now. Yes, the episode has flaws, but that was one fantastic ride. This episode embodied a lot of Trek means to me - the ethical, the interpersonal, and the action, etc. As usual I don't disagree with your points, but they just don't capture the experience that viewing this episode was. Oh well, sorry you didn't enjoy this episode as much as a lot of us did. Enjoy your 6 week review vacation.
I don't think Archer's taking up the suicide mission was an ill decision at all. The character of Archer has been developed as a more than skilled pilot in previous episodes of the series. It would be like Commander Riker piloting an important shuttle mission instead of the helmsman. It may be the helmsman's job, but Riker was always said to be the best pilot on the Enterprise.
I also don't think you can call T'Pol's inadequacy as Captain a bad plot point. First off, there's oviously something wrong with her, so it's understandable in that sense. Second, they can't all be perfect officers. People get overwhelmed and some people are terrible in the Captain's chair. History has proven this. I personally think it adds realism to the story and further shows the importance of Captain Archer which was first hit upon in "Twilight".
Archer trying to get himself killed by the Xindi is not silly at all because he's not trying to commit suicide, he's trying to avoid further punishment... or at least that's how I interpreted it.
I also felt that the Degra scenes made perfect sense. First off, we are already well aware that the Council has been arguing over deployment of the weapon for some time. We already know that Degra would take an alternate solution in a second if offered one. Remember, the Xindi don't even know that the humans are aware of their motivations for destroying Earth and where it came from. The Xindi are told by the Sphere Builders, who must have knowledge of the future. The fact that Archer discusses knowledge of the future AT ALL should raise doubt in Degra's mind because it adds validity to what Archer is saying... or at least plausibility. And for a guy who is looking to get out of going down in history as the guy who killed billions of people, that's good enough.
I do, however, agree with you about the crew not even bothering to formulate some kind of attack plan. You're going to tell me that Lieutenant Reed, the same guy who picked a fight with a member of his own crew, wouldn't be running thousands of scenarios in his head on how to go in there and blow stuff up? No, let's just sit here for hours on end hoping someone doesn't come investigate why their lookout post has been obliterated..... and some lookout post it is that can only transmit its data 4 HOURS after it records it. I mean WHAT?! That left a sour taste in my mouth.
Sorry... double posted by accident... feel free to delete this one.
I don't usually agree with Deus, but this time he nails it. Despite terrific FX and some fine acting by the Xindi interrogator and others(Funny Arscher line :Stinking up the place) this was the usual sweeps story, including the usual staples.
>Daniels
>the Federation at stake
>Possible Death of a major character
>A huge space battle
>time travel.
>a glimpse, mention of Enterprise XYZ-2000 or some other letter of the alphabet
It's the same all the time. This could have just as easily been the second season ender with a bigger battle, but as Deus says, it doesn't address the inconsistency of the characters, especially Archer and T'Pol.(all inconsistencies soon to be the result of some effect)Though, credit must be given to her newfound respect for time travel and the continuity of the remark. These characters need to learn from show to show. Azati Prime creates more questions than it answers. Archer's decision to fly the ship came much too quickly from a story point of view, considering its importance. Why couldn't Enterprise attack from space? The water was shallow and you could see the complex underneath. Heck, if the Enterprise has anti-grav capability to make it through the atmosphere, why not take her down there? What about a group of shuttles? Didn't the Xindi notice Archer blowing up their outpost?
Despite this, they gave Mayweather some interesting lines, and I really think when Mayweather questions Archer about why he's doing this and Archer laments about ordering all these attacks and that it's wearing on him it provides THE TRUEST INSIGHT I'VE SEEN INTO ARCHER'S CHARACTER IN THIS ENTIRE SERIES. So for that, I thank the writers and producers. For me, that was a better moment than the lineup of video game style underwater bases, laser blasts and self-destructive annihilation of the symbol of the show-- the Enterprise. Great FX, though.
Add Manny Coto to the list of producers who need to get the axe. He hasn't produced a single episode that didn't have major plot holes or lapses in ethics and intelligence.
This episode was no different. One thing that bugged me was this: On the spying mission, don't you think the Xindi would have watched Trip and Mayweather closely to make sure they left the detection area? Or later when Archer flies into the detection grid, don't you think they would have caught him long before he got to the weapon? I guess Coto didn't, because our intrepid crew just cruises right on toward the mega-weapon without incident. Whoops.
Another thing that irked me was the fact that Archer left T'Pol without orders when he went on his suicide run. There was no order to "get the hell out of here if you don't hear from me in 2 hours." Then T'Pol is actually dumb enough to stick around when she knows that the mission failed. Not only is she dumb enough to stick around, Trip and Reed are dumb enough to advocate going into the detection zone with Enterprise! Guys, you're facing 1000:1 odds; I hope you're not gambling men. It's insipid that at this point in the story they only have two options. Fight it out, or send T'Pol in for the diplomatic solution. Hello! "I need that third alternative!" as Kirk would say. Move the ship so you can regroup and think of a better plan, maybe? Hmmm...
Then there was the explanation from Archer to Degra concerning why he was trying to negotiate after he'd just been caught with explosives. "I was trying to stop you from killing my people" or something like that. And if I'm a Xindi and he told me that, I'd assume Enterprise is the first of a large invasion fleet. Why would I waste my time listening to Archer at this point? I'd deploy the weapon.
Apart from the suspension of common sense, this is still a good episode. It's by no means a great episode, though.
Seriously, as far as I'm concerned, this episode was flawless. My one complaint is that the episode was too good. It showed just how crappy most of the filler episodes have been in this series existence.
But everything in this episode was perfect. The acting, the effects, the music, the plot. Perfect. I haven't seen an episode of trek this good since DS9 ended.
And now I have to wait freaking 6 weeks in order to see the next one.
Everything that we've seen so far in the series has come to fruition. This episode has not only given the Xindi arc an explanation, but it has also given us answers in regards to the temporal cold war stuff in the first two seasons.
The character arcs of season 3 are making a huge impact. Archer is condemning himself for his sins, T'pol has emotionaly lost it (which will be explained soon). This episode was absolutely perfect. 11 out of 10.
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"There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who know binary and those who don't."
I can't believe that Deus didn't like this episode. How can an episode have too many developments? One of the reasons I loved this episode is because so much happened in this show. It is simply great, and I couldn't go into great detail because I would just skip too much. This episode is the best Enterprise yet!!!
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"There she is! There she is!! Not so wounded as we were led to believe, so much the better..."
"Worf, you killed Duras. I consider that no small favor, but what you ask... is impossible." -Gowron
"Brain, brain, brain!!! What is brain?!"
I wasn't expecting this episode to illicit such a negative response from Deus. I thought for sure that an episode full of everything (I thought) we wanted as fans would garner a "two thumbs up", "amazing", or even a "great" rating. That's how I would describe last night's episode. I wasn't expecting to see a future Enterprise or see the NX-01 get beat up so badly. I kinda feel a reset button coming, but maybe they'll find a more realistic way out this time. It's a bummer that we have to wait so long to find out.
One note: I think that Archer and Daniels were looking out a lower deck window in a corridor of the Enterprise-J - not the bridge. I like how the colors of the corridor sort of matched the Enterprise-E's. And the art-deco-ish picture of the "J" showed it to be a designed reminicent of the kind in the old Enterprise-D engineering manual's "Future Enterprise" section.
I just get the feeling that a lot of the creative people working on STE are really doing their homework. Everything from the effects, to the Federation dialogue, to the colors used on the sets, the sci-fi elements of hiding the weapon in the sea - all suprised me and left me feeling very satisfied as a viewer. Well done.
With all due respect, i strongly disagree. First of all, the episode never really felt as rushed & crammed with material as "The Expanse" did, also, Archer's decision to go on the mission himself is, i think, more about his reluctance to order anyone else to their death than anything else, which is explained in the episode, & while i disagree with his decision, i see nothing wrong with this.
The Enterprise-J shots were great, i'd be willing to bet anything this is the ship we'll be seeing in "E2". Archer trying to convince the Xindi of his story is believible, as Archer has the artifact to back up his story & he also has details on the reptillian bio-weapon, all things which can be bealieved by Degra & co.
The battle was great, & i don't think it was as much Enterprise not fightin as it was that they were simply hit to hard & to fast to put up much of a fight. They fired phase cannons & a torpedo, but after the heavy damage started being inflicted the comm wasn't working, what makes you think weapons would be?
I'm sorry, but i just can't see any reason to give this episode the review you did, but, hey, everyone has an opinion, right?
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...:::Trek Quote Of The Week:::...
- "He's a sick man, this is where sick people come."
- Star Trek: Voyager - "The Swarm"
If he were in Archer's shoes, there wouldn't have been a chance in HELL that Captain James T. Kirk would have sent one of his crew on that mission in his place.
Just as an obvious aside - because this season was cut by 2 eps, I expect that much of the material that ended up in ENT "Azati Prime" probably was designated for the extra 2 eps.
Be that as it may, this ep had alot of ENT "Shockwave I" type feeling to it and certainly many improvements based on commentary seen on these and other boards, HAVE been finally added in and I applaud it.
For example:
1.) More crew reaction shots. This was something that made ENT "Proving Ground" effective and it gives the audience a sense of what might be going on inside the character's head (which helps viewers "bond" with that character)
2.) Some crew member noticing T'Pol's bizarre behavior. Even though it's only Trip, and it was quite obvious when she finally went off the deep end, but at least it was addressed to a degree
3.) A wide range of emotions for Archer, including the silent/repressed anger that I liked in ENT "Shockwave I" that makes him a bit more lethal and ranging to his temper tantrum side... ;-)
4.) Substantial Travis - yes he IS the ship's pilot and having him in a key role was good. Also kudos to his at least questioning Archer for going on the mission, something that has been missing in the past. I wouldn't expect Travis, as a young Ensign, to go off the deep end with a superior officer many levels above him, but it seemed that his concern (or at least how it came across from Anthony Montgomery) was genuine and there was almost a sadness that came out there...
5.) Although Hoshi still didn't have much screen time, at least what she had made sense and showed why she is there in the first place - I think that just the whole translation of the Insectoid language (and the followup of her work when Trip and Travis were off in the Insectoid ship) was pretty cool.
Interestingly enough, the scenes of Travis and Trip in that little ship were so "ID4", with a Hilliard-Levinson dynamic (although certainly Anthony Montgomery is no Will Smith when it comes to dry humor....;-)) - especially when they were trying to figure out the controls. ;-)
6.) Some little technical things - the editing was pretty tight and there was an interesting scene fade in there. Also the music made me sit up and take notice.
7.) The ship just getting the crap beat out of it was very VOY "Year of Hell I & II"-like, although what was left of Voyager was much less than what they left us with after ENT "Azati Prime", although I guess one can assume that the assault goes on and on and on until
NEXT TIME ON STAR TREK ENTERPRISE
;-)
The main criticism I have is that since Mayweather hadn't been around to injured until recently, the T'Pol character has been the one who has been the physical and mental mess. What more can one do to this character? You have had the following:
1.) Repressed memories of guilt due to killing other Vulcans that were blocked by a ritual per ENT "The Seventh"
2.) Mind rape per ENT "Fusion"
3.) Contraction of Pa'nar Syndrome, which is supposedly without a cure and can be lethal (per ENT "Stigma")
4.) Damage from a biological/telepathic scan per ENT "Rajiin"
5.) Damage from exposure to Trellium-D per ENT "Impulse"
and on and on. When does this end? It's almost like they symbollically want to "break" the Vulcan archetype through the ridiculous stuff done to this character who isn't some kid just out of the Science Academy, but supposedly a seasoned space farer having served on board the Seleya previously in the past. 
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"I think the show talked to people through the characters. They're stories that speak to the heart. They talk about love, they talk about friendship, they talk about loyalty, they talk about patriotism, exploration, curiosity, reaching out... And I think all those things still touch people. Even when you look at a 30-year old show, it still has something to say." - D.C. Fontana, Sci Fi Channel Special Edition TOS 1998
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Outer Space. The last frontier.
These are the trips of the Star Trek Enterprise.
Its 5-year plan...
Calls for us to explore strange new worlds. To seek out new life and new civilizations.
To boldly fly where no man has gone in space.
Patrick Stewart on SNL 2/5/94
First, things I liked.
The FX were very good. NX-01 getting pounded by Xindi weapons looked very good on my SONY. The splash worked well as an FX and as a good way to hide a WMD. The musical background worked well with what was going on on-screen. I was impressed by the variety of stunts performed as various parts of Enterprise exploded. Archer's interrogation was amusing and well timed. It seemed to give me, and the plot, a chance to breath.
Now, what I didn't like.
T'Pol's slow reaction to a Xindi squadron? I would have put NX-01 in warp drive a lot faster than she did. I agree with DEUS, this material could have worked in three eps, not two.
And now, for what really has me bugged. UPN couldn't even promote next week's episode more than once, almost ensuring a lower rating next week. Ugh. As a Trek fan, I'll probably remember next week's episode has been moved to a different time slot, but the casual viewer may not. Best of luck to Enterprise next week!
Deus, which is it that you're reviewing...
ST:ENT The Series?
ST:ENT Season 3?
ST:ENT The Xindi Arc?
ST:ENT "Azati Prime"?
Wll Deus it appears majority rules but your insights are interesting but really a 7? I think the episode deserved at least a 9! Are you a vulcan? Too much emotion running around for you liking? (just kidding).
This episode was a winner in all respects. From the taut story-line, solid acting and finally FX worthy of Star Trek series this episode had everything going for it. This episode was among the few they have done really well that reinforces the premise of the show in a solid manner; 'why this crew representing humanity was so important in the creation of the fedearion'.The pounding taken by enterprise was very well done. The battle damage looked realistic and gave the same dreadful feeling that we got with the destruction of 1701 in ST 3.
Good job indeed.
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"The mighty Star Trek would fall before us"-B&B
I say pls stop doing any reviews Deus !!!
You are just not satisfied with anything...
The problem you have is that you want the impossible. You cant reinvent Star Trek or SciFi (so that it still stays true to its values) This show (in its 3rd season) is so entertaining and well done and still you complain, complain, complain. This episode has to few of these and that episode to much of that blablabla..
IMO you clearly dont like the new face of Star Trek which is Enterprise and you never really did and since you dont like it, stop writing reviews on a page that is all about that what you dont like.
Well its not well written but I hope you get the gist.
I am really sick of reading your reviews and I wont no more...
Sorry!
Greetings
Christian
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Live Long and Prosper
I agree!
by motionblur @ 03:45:08 on Mar 05
Did we watch the same ep?
Archer and Travis explicitly discussed Archer's demand to go on the mission, addressing your isues 100%...the fact that its an emotional and ill-conceived command decision is admited by all, including Archer. You disagree with his decision? YOU WERE MEANT TO.
I dont understand how, "It's too good," or "It's too full of action/plot," is a viable criticism.
This ep more fully realized the promise of this series than any to date...
RE: Huh?
by Terry212 @ 10:47:25 on Mar 05
RE: Huh?
by Corona @ 10:20:40 on Mar 04
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